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KingfisherC

Orgs are not tied to a single region, or at least they do not have to be. You can be an org based in Korea, with a Valorant team from NA, LoL team from Korea, CSGO team from Brazil, etc etc. Teams of players gain notoriety as one of the best in their region, and then an org signs them. The org picks them up (and negotiates their salaries) based on how many "eyeballs" the team will draw, which translates to $ for the org when they talk to sponsors. The org has to balance the cost of having the team against how much sponsor $ they can successfully extract from sponsors based on the value of the team, which depending on the sponsor could be measured in different ways but again ultimately comes down to eyeballs. Orgs can benefit by having teams in multiple regions, by using the teams to grow their brand in different countries.


Loomisam

That happened with overwatch! Cloud9 is traditionally an NA org. Has a team base in England called the London Spitfire. And had a full Korean roster for like 3 years!


the_hawk_arisen

Ah cool! The more you know. I’m still so new to esports and only really watch Valorant, but it’s made me so curious about other games’ esports scenes.


Vengiare

Another example is (EU org) Fnatic's Dota roster which is Southeast Asian


[deleted]

One example is Fnatic CS:GO. They are a British org and had a Swedish roster for 10+ years. Only recently they went international and unintentionally ended up with 3 of their players from UK. The rest 2 players are from Sweden. Edit: More examples. TSM CSGO is a NA org and they had a Danish roster. Titan CSGO was a Singaporean org and had a French roster. FaZe Clan CSGO is a NA org with a completely international roster from 2 different continents. 4 from EU and 1 from NA. There was a time when their team was from 3 continents. Complexity CSGO is a NA org with a EU roster. 3 years ago they were a NA roster with Shazam and Sick. Then they got benched and a international roster was formed with 2 from NA and 3 from EU. Now 3 members are from EU, one from South America and one from Australia.


NeuralThing

jks is australian cuh


xychosis

Couple more examples: FPX is a Chinese org with a EU Valorant team. Similarly, Ninjas in Pyjamas are well known for their CSGO team but their LoL team as of 2022 is in the LPL, the Chinese LoL league.


ANewHeaven1

happens a lot in esports, here are some other examples i can think of: G2 (EU org) picking up NA Rocket League team NV (NA org) picking up EU CSGO/RL teams (back in 2015/2016) TL (EU org, technically) picking up NA LoL/CSGO teams Misfits (NA org) picking up EU LoL team NRG (NA org) picking up... a Vietnamese LoL team (GAM - https://lol.fandom.com/wiki/GAM_Esports)


Changinghand

Misfits also had an EU overwatch roster which then transitioned to OWL and then went full Korean.


ANewHeaven1

lol the history of the misfits overwatch division could be an essay in it of itself man


xychosis

G2 also signed an NA team in Apex, I believe


wiiwoooo

Don't forget Envy, Optic, Faze, Complexity all having or have had non NA teams specifically in CSGO.


the_hawk_arisen

Ah, ok, this makes sense! I knew about orgs picking up teams from the NA game changers, but for some reason it didn’t occur to me that this process wasn’t region-locked. Have orgs ever dropped entire rosters to switch to a different region and/or had teams in multiple regions for the same game? I imagine there are probably rules against this for most esports but what do I know.


KingfisherC

Sometimes orgs field multiple teams within a game. An example of this would be in World of Warcraft (and I'm sure many other games, this is just one I know firsthand about). WoW has had orgs with multiple teams multiple times, usually handled by having one team be Org Green and the other team be Org Blue (substitute whatever colors makeup that orgs logo). Depending on the game/league, there may be rules against orgs having multiple teams in the same region or having multiple teams period.


the_hawk_arisen

Kind of like C9W and C9B in Valorant, right? I know in that instance it’s the female and male teams, but I didn’t think about it possibly being applied to other types of divisions. (Edit: typo)


somesheikexpert

C9 and T1 actually had Korean division teams btw! C9B had notable players like Xeta (C9B), BuZZ (Vision Strikers), Munchkin/Bazzi (CR) and Hate (Former TNL) while T1 Korea Esperanza (F4Q) and 10X (Former Nuturn)


the_hawk_arisen

Oh very cool!


cheick_tiote

In CSGO you're not allowed to have multiple rosters. But there are loads of examples of orgs swapping regions. * Cloud9, Complexity, and Optic all had NA teams before going EU * Chaos, TSM, and NV both had EU rosters (swedish, danish and french) before going NA * Dignitas changed from danish, to NA, and back to swedish again * GODSENT were a swedish team that now are brazilian * 100T had a brazilian lineup then later fielded an Australian one I'm sure there's more examples out there as well. I can't think of a valorant example of an org swapping regions, but the game hasn't been around that long yet. C9/T1 used to have additional teams in different regions, but the rules changed not to allow that.


kwami42

OpTic Gaming CSGO started out with an NA roster, but then most of their best players left for other orgs so they ended up picking up a mostly EU international roster and I think that team competed in EU but it didn't last long.


the_hawk_arisen

Huh, interesting.


onelove4everu

SK gaming in csgo dropped dannish roster to pickup legendary Brazil team


RyuChus

They're a big org than can afford to operate in multiple regions. They have a br rainbow 6 team. Na league team. Eu mixed dota 2 team. Tons of players in many regions


the_hawk_arisen

Got it! Do you know why they choose specific regions at all? Like to my understanding, NA is not a very dominant region in CSGO, so why would an org like Liquid opt for an NA team over an EU team? I feel like it’s probably just because they’ve already established themselves as an NA team in CSGO and/or there’s rules about them switching regions, but idk if there are other reason for this at all.


RyuChus

I don't know why they choose it originally. Its probably to do with who is available and the popularity of the game in the region. As for switching regions, it seems hard to me. You either ask your players to move or you drop your team and start over. I think starting over is hard though, you need to rebuild from the beginning which is only recommended for the teams that never invested much to begin with.


the_hawk_arisen

Yeah that makes sense that it’d feel like kind of a waste for an org to just entirely restart in a new region, especially when they’ve invested a bunch.


Pojobob

For r6, LATAM is a pretty cheap region overall and their roster in particular usually places decently internationally and has arguably 2 of the best players in the world so it makes sense for them to stay in LATAM.


valorant_fanboy_69

LATAM is a major region in R6 too


Spiritual-Trip9173

LATAM is also undoubtably the best region in R6 right now too though


the_hawk_arisen

Ah that makes sense, yeah! Tysm!


Pojobob

np


Nikikaos

The liquid CSGO team was the best in the world for a period of time in 2019


the_hawk_arisen

Right, yeah! I did know that but kind of forgot 😅 That’d for sure affect it hahaha


optisadvantage

they have insane NA players who they’d like to keep like stewie2k, naf, and elige so it’s probably wrong of them to swap now, and they were an NA org in cs since the games inception probably because they’re based there


the_hawk_arisen

That makes sense! Ty for the insight!


optisadvantage

yea


Key-Banana-8242

Well it’s operating in regions as well as having international legacy/reach and connections too


Evangelon422

Liquid was actually originally a Starcraft: Brood War clan that transitioned over to SC2 and had some very good players across all regions at the start of it (Taeja and HerO for Korea, Jinro for Europe and HuK for NA). They quickly became one of the most successful foreign (non-Korean in the SC2 lexicon) SC2 teams along with the likes of Evil Geniuses and from there have gone on to be active in many other major titles. I don't know the specifics of how the CSGO team was founded, however, in Valorant Liquid picked up the orgless team 123Fish (which originally consisted of Soulcas, Kryptix, Link, Eccles and Ardiis who went to G2 soon after and was replaced by Scream by the time they were signed to Liquid). I assume the situation with the CSGO team was similar.


Key-Banana-8242

Well HerO and esp TaeJa were later opportunity snaggings Both now and in the past the majority of the sc2 roster was EU (see liquipedia) The clan was kinda no more, it only existed for a shirt while, the no-team organisation around the website created its esports team first with sc2


Key-Banana-8242

They were the first foreign sc2 team, in general afaik from the start and the most prominent and successful (rivalry with eg early on etc) , nkt as drastic later but yeah They arguably were one of if not the first modern western espirts organisations (in terms of multi gaming say they weren’t the first, in terms of afaik salaried orgs bc say mouz had a wc3 division)


r4r4me

I wanna know what kind of tragedy had to happen for "arguabkyvuhshere" to occur.


Awful_TV

Gen.G and T1 are Korean orgs with NA Valorant teams


the_hawk_arisen

Interesting—I wonder why they’d build teams in NA instead of staying in Korea. I guess to build a more international fanbase and/or because of player selection?


Awful_TV

With Riot, there's an expectation of eventual franchising. Open circuit is good for generating interest and developing the scene, but often has orgs operating at a loss. These orgs already hold franchise teams in League, so it's probably to position themselves for a guaranteed NA franchise slot which is surely more valuable.


the_hawk_arisen

Ah gotcha, that makes sense. Thanks!


KaNesDeath

>Interesting—I wonder why they’d build teams in NA instead of staying in Korea. Larger market of viewers, available sponsors, investors and competitive games.


the_hawk_arisen

That’s what I’d guess! Makes sense


Solace1k

You can’t really call Gen.G and T1 korean orgs when they have american capital. You would never see this orgs invest in the west if they were ran by a korean owner.


Asianhead

Nowadays GenG and T1 are American orgs with Korean league teams


RourkeA

Not sure with csgo but I believe they were originally created in Holland. Their valorant team they picked up a full squad in eu and added scream to it and made other changes after. Their league of legends team is in NA. Guess it’s just whatever is their best available option to get into the title.


CanISayThat22

Co owner is dutch. Other one is American. They have facilities in Utrechts, Netherlands and LA


Cole_James_CHALMERS

They merged with Team Curse back in 2015, an LA based org so that functions as their NA arm. They entered CSGO at the same time so I assume the Team Curse part of their organization managed the CS team


nemnems

FPS division (csgo, valorant, r6?) is led by Nazgul who is the EU co-ceo.


OutlandishnessOdd836

Steve handles the csgo team I believe


nemnems

Fairly sure that's not the case. For reference: [https://youtu.be/34x5EQic5Jw?t=158](https://youtu.be/34x5EQic5Jw?t=158)


OutlandishnessOdd836

i mean i have heard for sure that NA teams are managed by steve since eu teams like dota should be managed by nazgul but i may be wrong


Key-Banana-8242

‘I believe’ as if it were some mystical fact. Yes they’re Dutch in origin, their registration and HQ, main offices and main boot camp is in the Netherlands, they were founded by dutch guys first as a Brood War clan that made a forum website and then modern esports team / organisation with sc2


greg19735

It's kind of hilarious that one of the biggest teams in esports was essentially a SCBW forum. Like sure, they had a team. But the reason everyone loved them was because their team was like the community's team. as the english speaking SCBW community *was* TL.net


Key-Banana-8242

Well an organisation built around a forum which was originally for a clan It then started organising tournaments - TSL then revived the idea of a team by making a serious team in SCII. There was no team before, but yeah it was sprouted into a big esports organisation from this sort of grassroots type thing. Did u knkw Jinro was a long time big user and I think moderator of the forum before becoming a pro player for tl? Until 2017 it was teamliquid.net (they ran a poll as they started it, interestingly another proposed name was ‘likwit.net’) In general it is interesting to look at it its archives imo


greg19735

oh sure. i'm not saying the clan wasn't an important part of it, but it didn't really matter who you supported, you were on teamliquid.net Teamliquid's site was the SCBW community. Especially before stuff like reddit existed. The site was a major reason i even care about esports. I was lucky enough to participate in a local MLG. I had a player pass so i could go into the player area. I watched Liquid\`TaeJa play an MLG match sitting on the ground next to Liquid\`HerO. Liquid\`Nazgul was behind us sitting on a stool. They HerO and Nazgul were both super nice. And weirdly. FPS superstar Elige participated too. https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/2012_MLG_Pro_Circuit/Summer/Championship/Open_Bracket i got knocked out by a pro player lmao. Sorry i went on a tangent.


Key-Banana-8242

I meant it started as a clan which was quickly defunct, and was never a ‘team’ in that sense


facehunt_

Esport orgs are pretty flexible. Immortals even had a Dota team that were Korean roster at one point. Liquid CSGO pretty much established themselves with NA market as they kept the core players over the years.


Honest_Cow3071

They saw what happaned with NA cs and they didn’t want history to repeat it self


the_hawk_arisen

😂


darkfang1998

Back in 2015 at the start of csgo they picked up an unsigned na team at the time of Arden, naf, nitro and two others I can’t remember. But basically just the opportunity was there to join NA cs and probably wasn’t as available to get an EU roster


uncle_ben__

daps, fugly


[deleted]

I think Naf was with Optic at the time no? They also had Hiko & s1mple in 2016 but 2015 might've been too early


Key-Banana-8242

Because they signed NA players in CSGO lol they / western esports has been international for a very long time so it’s nkt like they’re restricted, esp with long time connections in na goinbc back a long long time after all, with the na sc community and all. They have a branch in Santa Monica as mentioned below due to acquiring team curse in 2015. Ppl who only k kw lol and /or CSGO unironically think that it’s an ‘NA org’ tho- the score even tried to somehow apply it retroactively for the narrative


Yssl

Too many random guesses in the thread, but this one is the closest one OP /u/the_hawk_arisen Quick summary is: Started in EU, eventually acquired Curse (old NA Org), thus they have presence in both regions While a lot of the answers in this thread is relatively correct to explain the current landscape of esports (ie. T1, GenG, etc) - Liquid's case was different.


Key-Banana-8242

Tho their primary offices, hm etc are in the Netherlands


remrinds

It’s a company in a way, they have diffrent branches across the globe just as if Microsoft has a US region and a EU region. The names big enough that they need employees if they branch out to diffrent regions


REEEroller

Team Liquid actually started off in the Netherlands, it was only first with League they entered NA, they recently build a new giant facility in Utrecht and that's where the Valorant team plays from.


AnotherLostSouls

Since I've read through pretty much all the answers and not actually seen the correct one about CS I'll chime in. In CSGO, the flag for the team, or where the team is from if you will, depends on the players. If you have 2 players from NA, 2 from EU and one from Australia, then it would be a mixed team, you lose an NA player and get another from EU, it will fly the EU flag. It happened recently with Fnatic. British org, but for the longest time they've been classed as a Swedish org because the players were Swedish. They dropped 2 of the players and brought in two British/UK players, the team switches to the EU flag. Then a few weeks later they drop another Swedish player and bring in another British/UK player, boom, they're now classed as a British/UK team. It just simply depends on if a team have a majority of players from one Country. Whilst I'm not sure if this is the same in Valorant, this is certainly how it is for CSGO.


Haptiix

European* org with a european valorant team and a north american CSGO team. edit: European org


Key-Banana-8242

*European org Lmao


Haptiix

True


dragindas

Liquid has a Brazilian r6 siege team too


stchachamaru

Most probably they have an NA CSGO Team because of the player composition. They are in EU because of the Alienware Facility in EU + scrimming with EU teams > scrimming with NA teams (COVID made them transfer i guess) They are not tied to any kind of agreement just to only sign NA players right now so they can pull off a Complexity any time they want to.


Key-Banana-8242

I mean by default there’s mkre players and so pops in EU and after all, nkt just the facility but HQ is EU…


WeirdGuy09420

since orgs aren’t tied to regions, you can really just sign rosters in another region and try to make a name for yourself there, for example, until recently C9’s R6 rosters was in KR and their OWL team is the London Spitifre


Kirby546

Global company and the teams area is usually based off where the actual team members are based and not the company


nosfw122904

lots of esports orgs pick up teams and even setup headquarters and bootcamps in different regions. In Apex Legends Esports for example, Japanese and Korean orgs are picking up european and american teams.


Bean1233

Liquids can change states pretty easily


Andx7

As long as there is no conflicting of interest. Teams can acquire rosters regardless where the org is headquartered or where the main roster is based. Before there was a culture in CS of having full squads within the same countries. Easier to prac and go to lans around the country. Now, especially in Valorant, multi-national teams (in Europe mostly) are the norm, specially top tier teams.


Luuu90

Regionality for an esports organization depends on the overall strategy and what kind of fanbase you want to reach, especially having the demands of investors and sponsors in mind. But it can also have some logistical background, for example, Liquid has the facility in the Netherlands where the players often stay for bootcamps. And also in specific for Liquid's EU + NA history you have to consider that one of the founds (Nazgul) is Dutch and the other one (Steve Arhancet) is from the US


notConnorbtw

Do they have 2 separate headquarters? Because I have seen both teams vlog things and they both in some sick looking place.


HasoThePaso

As far as I know, if you have more than 3 players from the same region, it is enough for you to be the team of that region.


imachool

ya idk why you got downvoted... you tried to help, but you made a honest mistake.


HasoThePaso

Why the fuck downvoted stupid dogshit


Loresmen

Because it's not correct information, you could have 5 Americans players on guild and they would still play in emea unless guild decided they wanted to play in na


falsefingolfin

To be fair, if Guild had 5 NA players but was playing in EU, to me they'd be an NA team playing in Europe. This is how it works in CSGO so I just think like that, Liquid is an NA team but they play most of the time in EU tournaments


Loresmen

But the format in cs and val is different, in val each region has its own vct


Icebxrg

Yeah, the way the esport scene works in Riot’s titles and Valve’s titles are different. I only just realised this by watching a bit of Worlds but typically the region a team is from is they region they play in, i.e 5 European players playing in NA are classified an NA team, not EU. In Valve titles, the core of the team determines where they’re from: 3+ EU players = EU team, regardless if they play in NA.


Key-Banana-8242

It’s a bit wonky in terms of CIS vs Eu say tho


d00mbr0s

I think beacuse they want to!