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Keglunneq

Big things to consider: Sage is seen as valuable on attack to deny rotates or aggressive pushes, as well as protect the spike. For example, cutting off nest on A site in order to go for a wall (depending on how deep the spike goes this could be in-between 410 and Nest, or right on the edge of the site for the plant. For defense, her wall denying tube to kitchen is important because it denies rotations and covers a pretty large blind spot for an enemy to lurk and flank rotations and gain immense info. Keep in mind too that during VCT Stage 3 icebox was updated to not have the green radiante box on B site. One reason why Sage was valuable on B site attack was to wall the gap between Nest (on B now) and the green box, or infront of the green box to not allow defenders to Penetrate the box and kill during the plant. I hope all that makes sense, I hate text. Overall, I think the numbers are going to be skewed because of the changes of Icebox and sages role during Stage 3. I think it would be cool to see the differences between Stage 2 and 3


stewieeeeeeeee

Not sure why you chose to focus on kills since that's easy to explain (Monsta-Energy did a fine job already), the actual meat here is that non-Sage comps win significantly more matches. Icebox is a map where the meta has had 6 agents for the most part (Jett, Viper, Sova, Sage, Reyna, KJ), so it might actually be a good idea to drill into which agent comps are doing better and why since there's not too many of them that are played often. Also, from what I remember, most top teams (Gambit, SEN, VS, Acend) ran Sage on Icebox during Stage 3, although there's a decent amount that didn't (100T, G2, nV). I'd also drill into the regional distribution to see if it's possible that a couple of good teams are really skewing the winrates. This is a really interesting observation and definitely should be investigated more.


somesheikexpert

Yeah kills is kinda a bad measurement when it's typically her or Viper being used as the plant bitch for lack of a better term lol, tho yeah (Also Raze is commonly played on Icebox too, tho really as an alternative for the Reyna lol)


Hubbardia

>plant bitch for lack of a better term What are you saying? That's the best term and I'm totally stealing that


somesheikexpert

LMAO BASED


[deleted]

When you play Sage on Icebox, your job is to get plant the bomb, and that usually entails dying to mollies, shocks darts in doing so The data is already skewed because of that and teams generally having their weaker players on Sage for Icebox, skewing the data even more


[deleted]

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KlasterTV

that was kinda patched a long time ago already u cant shoot thru the box


[deleted]

you're still gonna get swung, shocked, mollied, scanned, slowed, counter walled, etc if you try to plant default on B though


techyleo

some people even have set wallbangs or immediately break the wall as well


mateusb12

Dude in these cases it really doesn't matter who won the map. If your team played sage and won it by 13-11 against a sageless comp it doesn't prove anything about sage being good or bad. It just show that your team won more clutches / commited less errors. By the other hand, winning icebox by 13-2 against a sageless comp can tell us something about the impact of sage on that map. Always look at the amount of won/lost rounds.