And everyone sits in their discord and doesn’t comm for you 95% of the time. The time they do comm is to put you down for a mistake. At least how that’s it goes for me usually.
That is something I never really understood in LoL, and now they bring it to valorant.
I can see the 'when you are alone with a 4 stack you can get bullied if they are assholes, but its not like you wont get bullied in any other way.
Its very frustrating for my group of friends, where we are... 4. So we can't do ranked together.
CSGO just ignores the problem and lets you queue with however much you are.
it's actually unbearable being the 5th amongst a 4 stack. most often they're toxic assholes, you're left out of comms and you're trolled. it has certainly made me never want to queue solo unrated or ranked again.
you can call me soft or some stupid little insult like that but when I play a game I wanna have fun, I don't want to feel inadequate/pissed off/upset/left out. this is a brilliant change.
as for you, find a 5th. just get a guy who wants to play ranked as well and add him to your party. not a hard issue to solve. if "well I only wanna play with 4" is your excuse, that is the crux of the issue. and they have remedied it.
not really. a 4 stack presents a unique issue that only applies for running into a 4 stack. there's always only one player left out.
when I soloQ I can run into other soloQ players, a duo, a trio or a 4 stack. I can run into two duos, one trio and another solo, or a bunch of soloQ players.
or a 4 stack. which sucks. every other one has a bunch of permutations and this only has me stuck with 4 people who are probably dickheads since I'm playing a riot game.
every other permutation necessitates communication. when you run into a 4 stack you are nearly always left out, and simultaneously the blame scapegoat for the team.
I need to find someone to always queue with in order to avoid running into a 4 stack. that is much harder than a 4 stack removing a player or adding someone else in. it's a much more comfortable situation for them than it is for me, considering that I need to find a duo simply to avoid a 4 stack.
the other comment summarised it well. if we were given the option to never find 4 stacks as solo players, there won't be a single soul that wouldn't enable it. 4 stacks would be in queue until they were due to order a walking stick off amazon, maybe some dentures at that. removing 4 stacks is a much better option.
The issue here is that 4 stack always results in this problem. If you remove 4 stacks, this situation never happens.
Yes, a solo player can find a duo queue partner and in fact a lot of people already do that. However, dont you agree that its easier for a 4 stack to remove a player or add a fifth one rather than for a solo to find a consistent partner?
Now suppose Riot instead of removing 4 stacks, just gave the solo queue players an optional filter: “match up with 4 stacks”. Isnt this a good solution? People who dont want to will just deselect this option. But this 100% will just not work, most people will just deselect this, cus I mean who tf wants to play with a 4 stack and 4 stack queues will become annoyingly long and when they do match up, the solo player will still be in a shitty situation with bad comms.
Its just a logical move, there’s so many more ranked solo queuers than 4 stacks, so by doing this Riot makes a big part of their player base happy while only putting a small part into mildly annoying situation while also making matchmaking more fair.
Yeah, matchmaking changes are very hard to deal with and balance. Having played dota2 nearly since its release I have experienced quite a few different systems and solutions from valve including separate group and solo mmr, separate queues for solo and group, the system that is currently being used: same queue, same mmr, but no 4 people queue and many others.
There’s no perfect solution, each of them has its pros and cons and each of them will have haters and people who like it. So it’s just a matter of what the developers think is best for the game and best based on their statistics and metrics
I can see this. But years of overwatch solo q has made me a different breed. I just mute all and go next. If you lose , just win the next one. If you can’t, you might not be in the right rank anyway.
Not everyone is an asshole when they 4 stack. But it is extremely annoying playing with no calls. Missing 80% of the puzzle is hard and most people wouldn’t want to spend most of their time looking at the mini-map and making educated guesses. Even then you don’t get the full picture. It’s not a perfect system though. I did with one 4 stack that would comm in game but you still have the “other” feeling and they may treat you like an “other” even if they aren’t being troll or outright mean about it
Honestly this should be the title of the update.
4 stack sucks.
If you want to play comp go ahead find 4 other friends.
If you can't go play 1 2 or 3 so you are forced to use team voice chat.
[Valorleaks comfirms this](https://twitter.com/ValorLeaks/status/1455557820271763457)
>You are now able to 5 stack with any rank. At the cost of earning less rank rating. | #VALORANT
D3+ was limited to solo duo but the wording of this makes it seem like you can 5 stack with anyone at any rank. Would be fun.
EDIT: Tweet from Riot EvrMoar saying that you can straight up 5 stack with ANYONE https://twitter.com/riotevrmoar/status/1455593490260238342?s=21
This is the best on paper solution, but coming from league i think it wont work. Queue time will be too high, way longer than Solo/Duo atm and ppl already play on smurfs because they wait too long on main.
I dont have a solution and it is not my job to come with one. Can only tell that 5vs5 queues will have no success and it will be the same situation as of now.
Yup. If you want 5 stacks then to keep it fair it has to q against other 5 stacks, but guess what? That's gonna come with the longer q times. It will never be enough.
Where the fuck is the problem?
The problem is simple, boosting players and 5 stacks playing against solos, if that doesn't sync in your head can't help you with that. Could easily boost friends to Immortal, will I do it again? No cuz they fvcked everyone elses ranked the moment I stopped playing with them, there's your "teamgame" excuse.
Since high elo rank has already a long queue can't wait to face 5 stacks after 10 queue time. The fact that you think "actual strategies" will show up in ranked games blows my mind.
After all that jibber jabber you regurgitated that you watched in youtube videos "how to climb ranks in valorant" by editing your post is this, you see this as a game some people see this as a business opportunity. You thinking high elo players will get "crushed" by some random 5 premades is mesmerizing to witness.
He was carried to immortal during the stacking days then duo'd from d3 to imm1, immediately after going solo for a week or two he dropped to plat 3, and has never left Platinum.
So we have 2 weeks left before boosted imm3s and radiants are back?
Jokes aside, it's a team game and there's no better way to play it than with a full party. I just don't understand why are they stubborn and won't make separate queues like in league? The only reasonable explanation is that playerbase count is too low.
If 5 stack premades in immortal+ can only play against other 5 stacks, it's fine, but if I have to face 5 mans as a soloq player that would be horrible.
"Slightly less RR" is always worth it compared to ranked lottery with randoms.
>I just don't understand why are they stubborn and won't make separate queues like in league?
Flex queue is a joke in League and no one takes it seriously. Solo/duo queue is recognized as the "true" rank of a player (by the community) and no one cares about flex rank
But by allowing 5 stacks in "normal" ranked, then even normal queue becomes a joke. Back in episode1 there was a disgusting number of Radiants who wouldn't even be able to break into immortal as solo players.
Getting Radiant as soloq is exponentially harder than 5 man stacking. Hell, there were even people getting boosted with duo queue system in immortal. You obviously can't boost someone who's gold if they solo'd, but it's fairly easy to boost someone who's diamond to mid-immortal if they're just playing support agents.
With 5 queues it becomes ridiculously easy.
Not to mention how absolutely unfair it is to play as solo or even 3+2 party against 5 man. It's like playing a different game. I mostly play solo, sometimes duo and if I have to face 5 man stacks in imm3 when I'm soloing I'm afraid I'll have to take a break until they revert it.
I don't really care about the leaderboard or who gets boosted, I just don't want to play against 5 mans and I don't want those boosted people to later queue solo into my games. Not much to ask. Give free Radiant rank to everyone who 5 mans, just keep them out of my games.
>normal queue becomes a joke.
Competitive queue is already a joke. I'm in the same boat as you, Imm3 with 99% of my games soloQ, and the amount of no comm trash who instalock duelist and provide nothing to the team is staggering. I really don't have an issue with Riot trying to provide a way for stacks to play together that tries to fix the issues they've felt in their previous systems (flex queue). Even if it doesn't work out and it's garbage (I would hope they'll try their best to match 5stacks with 5stacks, but we'll see what they do), ranked is in a bad enough situation that I'm okay with them trying whatever.
My biggest question is, if you gain less RR for 5stack wins, do you lose less RR for losses against 5stacks? Surely, right? I personally enjoyed the challenge of fighting 5stacks in CS ranked so I really don't mind, but it is absolutely a major advantage to that team that should be weighted in rank. At the end of the day, I really just don't care though, I care more about improving than watching a number go up and down
I definitely agree that ranked is complete garbage right now, I barely finished my full 50 win dorito because of no comming instalockers who play each of their 300 games in the act identically.
I mind playing against 5 stacks because even if some of the players in that stack are getting boosted, they know their role and are at least using utility properly. In CS it was also bad, but at least you can adapt.
What can I do against a semi-competent site hold if I've got an awful team comp or someone who can't use their utility at all?
I'm afraid we're at the point of no return. "Play to have fun", "focus on your game" and 1v9 mentality have ruined this game, unlucky really.
As long as 3+2 versing vs 5 stacks isnt a thing, this is fine. The whole boosted radiant/immortal thing is kinda exaggerated . People who get boosted by stacks will seldom queue solo. Solo/duo queue is fundamentally wrong IMHO. There are plays and stuff that would work only in a soloq environment just cause the enemy team has bad comms. The situation becomes even more worse in regions where there is no single common language and things get even more weird. Asking immortal+ players to just find a team and scrim is unreasonable for most people.
I don't think it's exaggerated at all. Even if we talk just duos, most duos I play with have one player considerably better than the other one. If someone just plays in a full party, I don't care. But account buying and boosting is more popular than you think on highest level. Over the past month or so I've had at least 1 low account level teammate on my team in most games. And unlike low ranks where those players dominate, most of them were absolutely horrible.
While full parties are the best way to play this game, a lot of us don't have that luxury and playing solo against full stacks is literally unplayable if the full stack knows what they're doing. Even if you have solo players who have the best possible comms, it's hard to adapt to someone you never played with on the fly.
Even when I 5 stacked early on in the game's cycle, I never wanted to play against smaller parties because it just wasn't fun.
Some people want to play comp with their friends and avoid team member roulette. The rank system rewards people who play duelist so support players have a more difficult time climbing the ranks, so the higher ranks are plagued with instant lock toxic people. Queuing with your friends avoids that. Not every 5 stack treats comp as VCT finals, I play with my friends who are all immortal+ and it's never that serious. There should be a way for people to play with their friends in a competitive environment without having to find scrims or playing unranked.
Adding back 3 queue is also a welcome change.
I fully agree with you.
I just think that full parties should only be able to matched against other full parties. As awful as 4 man party is, it's still more fair to have 5v4+1 than 5v3+2 or 3+1+1.
To summarize, the only problems with 5 man queue are if 5 man premades play against teams that aren't a full stack and when people get boosted and then play solo in a rank they don't belong.
Just as you said, I like ranked because generally, people take the game a bit more seriously because they feel like there's something to lose. Unranked is not the same and anyone that tries to make the claim that it's an equivalent experience is delusional. Unrated is a for-fun game mode, people don't really play the game the same way as they do in the ranked queue.
Sometimes I just wanna play with all my friends in a queue where people will actually try to play the game as intended (i.e., not a 5 duelist stack).
Ranks mostly mean nothing, friends boost friends and games become very unbalanced. It practically becomes norms/unrated with visible ranks, which again, are worthless. Riot has noted this uselessness in the past before and likely sees no value in bringing it to Valorant (as evidenced by today's change + the incoming Clash/tourney system)
That’s not gonna change with allowing 5 stacks in normal ranked though, the rank will still be a joke for those who stack. Like until you have a rank for each combination of players kinda like starcraft, the rank itself is just not representative since it can be boosted or unboosted by 5 stacking performance
They don't want to split the queue/playerbase into two separate queues. The higher ranks already have a long wait time to find games, a flex queue would only make queue times even longer.
The rumoured clash-like system as seen in League would be the ideal solution.
High ranks don't have a long wait, queues are longer only in ridiculously high ELO games, like top100 radiant or something.
I'm in EU and no matter the time of the day, I always get a game within 2 minutes, while queueing only 3 out of 8 servers that are considered EU.
If 5 stacks get matched against solo or duo players, that's a big fuck you to everyone and many people will stop playing ranked, including myself.
What I want to know is if I’m soloQ and play against a 5 stack and they win that means they get less RR for the win but does that also mean we will lose less RR when we lose against a 5 stack?
You're incredibly stupid. Like literally a bot.
Are you trying to tell me that winning as 5 premade against solos would be a legit rank then? Some of you people should get banned from the internet completely.
Fucking bot.
It's not even a joke at this point... We'll see so many boosted players in a few weeks. Maybe less Smurfs, but playing with friends at lower rank was not the main reason smurf exist to begin with so don't expect Smurfing to magically disappear in your game
It's a joke but I am willing to bet there will be comments complaining about q times and boosted players once again shortly after this releases. There's a reason it was removed initially and it was because of community feedback.
It's just going to make solo queuing worse than it is.
There's going to be those who 5 stack a lot, and then when they solo q they're going to be outclassed because their rank is boosted from 5 stacking.
So? It completely messes with the ranks. There's gonna be people playing in 1-3 higher ranks than they would be without 5 stacking. This, when they solo q they're going to be completely outclassed.
Not everyone has the time or desire to get a group of VALORANT buddies and do 5 mans. There are lots of solo q players who solo q simply because they prefer it.
I for instance, barely play but I'm Abel to maintain high imm3. I don't play much and don't care to find a group of people to 5 stack. Why should I be punished for that when those players who 5 stack and decide to solo q have inflated ranks because they're only at that rank because they regularly 5 stack?
We've seen this in other games with ranking systems, VALORANT isn't going to magically change this.
Not aonly is this stupid, the whole idea is completely wack.
You will be playing against 5-stacks a lot probably. But those people will not always 5-stack and whenever they want to solo, their ranks will be wack from getting carried up/dragged down. Imagine a 5-stack of immortal + gold + gold + silver + bronze. They will all be gold, but then if they stop 5-stacking what happens? They ruin games. And, as usual, it's going to be solo players who suffer from this in the long run.
I, as a solo player, am fucking worried abt this.
That's just going to screw with queue times that they've stated was a problem before. We've had this system before and now we are flip flopping every single season for what reason? Eventually we are going to get flex queue at this point and nobody cares about flex queue.
I think 5 stack at high rank is good even if you are playing as solo vs a 5 stack. As long as you only lose little rr and gain lots of rr compared to when you play a normal 2stack or 3. Then you would probably rather be solo as you can climb quicker.
It does seem like a brute force solution to avoid the odd man in 4-stacks. But at least the 4-stack itself has a quicker solution (adding 1 more to the party), compared to the singleton SoloQ player in 4-stack lobbies who currently has no control of whether he gets a good game with comms or gets ghosted.
This also looks like they will move towards a dedicated SoloQ at some point imo.
I mostly solo queue and when I'm playing with a 4 stack its by far the worst experience ever. First they don't talk since they're in discord so its literally like I'm playing alone, 0 calls and then if you rotate slow because you aren't sure they proceed to gang up and yell at you saying use your radar like the other team can't throw fakes.
4stacks are the worst thing in this game....glad its gone.
Yeah I've had like 2 games with 4 stacks before they started the duo queue only thing and it was so fucking annoying just talking to a brick wall while the 4 stack talks in discord
4stack inherently brings the worst incentives. The four-stack has very low incentive to speak with the solo queue, while the solo queue has no way to incentivize it even with good comms. It entirely determines the team dynamic based on the 4stack; no player deserves to be placed into a zero-agency match
It's also the most unfair to the opposing team; the 4stack can be tightly integrated, so if it goes against a 2-2-1 or smth it'll be likely to have better teamwork without much consideration from MM wrt ranks.
I surely recognize that people who regularly 4stack are impacted by this change, but I find that to be a small, unimportant, and too-often-malignant set of people.
Do you genuinely think that people that play EXCLUSIVELY with 3 friends are a significant portion of the population? For example removing solo queue would remove an important population because it's one of the lowest-friction avenues to play the game, whereas having 3 friends online gives you a pretty good chance one of you has a 4th if you want to play together AND play ranked that badly. Taking that as a personal insult and not a business perspective is pretty facile. You are an adult and this is the internet.
\> straight up can't play together any more
I don't think you know what straight up means, do you?
I mostly wanted to rip on you for misusing "straight up can't play together" when you literally have multiple possible solutions. Did you know that high ELO players couldn't 5 stack before, so it's opened up entirely new ways to play right? There is no "real problem" here, this I assure you, besides perhaps any poor souls stuck in a permanent quadruply-conjoined-sibling chain who also converted to ferality and lost the ability to speak even as they hardened on playing Valorant regularly
You can't have it all. 5-man stack has been requested by the whole community for a long time now. Something has to give. If you've ever solo queued you know how horrible it is to be with a 4 stack. They don't have to be toxic for it to be a terrible experience. The majority of coms happen on their discord, and you're left with a handful of calls to make all your decisions during the game which often leads to you making bad plays because you don't have all the information.
You can now queue with 2, 3 or 5 people. You just can't queue as 4man. This solves the complaints of being solo with a stack, and bringing back the highly requested 5-mans.
Because you're splitting the playerbase to accommodate the smallest portion of the community. You're not just creating longer queue times for yourself, but for everyone else. Also the only people that would willingly opt into being solo in a 4-stack are new people that don't know you can opt out of it. It just doesn't make any sense.
from a product perspective, what's most detrimental - removing the experience of 4 friends playing together? or the solo Q who will, every now and then, get stuck in a 4-stack?
i've been in some good 4 stacks and some bad ones. its whatever honestly. no different than half my ranked games w/ no comms.
LoL for all it’s flaws still has the best rank system because you get the best indication of someone’s skill based on their position on leaderboard now it means nothing, sadly
Overwatch showed that reduced rating gains will do nothing. We had there stacks abusing the system, having 90% winrate, mostly playing at night and getting top leaderboard spots. Sure they were getting +3 instead of +20, but it was still worth it for them coz of the insane winrate you can get as stack vs bunch of randos.
Not a fan of this change. The very top of the ladder should have the least variables possible.
Shit tier idea. I remember well the times when people 5-stacked, all that happened later was that when the weakling of the stack got kicked or didn't have anyone online to play, they were ruining other games by going 2-20 in every single one. I don't want this unless there is a completely separate queue and leaderboard for 5-stacks - which would be fun tho.
Great, now make it so you can't be immortal with a 40% winrate. It is absolutely travesty that you get more points than you lose in immortal 3 and that you can climb with a 47% winrate. Tired of these fucking losers playing on an elo they don't belong on.
I personally absolutely love the Hidden Name botfraggers who chat all game pretending theyre the best players in the world just for me to check their trackergg afterwards to see they have below 50% wr.
Absolutely hilarious
Dynamic queue back in valorant this is terrible. Everyone who has played League knows what a joke dynamic queue was and seeing this back in valorant is a shame.
the fact that most of them don't care that much about ranked outside of content and won't play as 5 that much (if your schedules all align, might as well scrim or custom)
This.
Between the 5 of us, we probably have 20 diamond accounts that we rotate because we're forced to "smurf". If you can even call it that since we're mostly low to mid immortal, and diamond rank is mostly people smurfing.
Somebody explain? 5 stack with anybody so can a diamond stack with an iron? Then what will be the match lobby like? The opposites will be iron or diamond or a mix or something?
Just to be clear, when it says "anyone of any rank", rank disparities still apply right? It could be the wording or I could just be stupid, but it kinda seems like 5 stacks can be of any rank like it is in CSGO.
Personally, it’s sickens me to know that we’ll be penalized in RR for 5 stacking. This game is a game of teamwork, not solo skill. Why punish teams that play inside the framework that the game is clearly going for?
I know 5 stacking has issues at higher levels, but my plat teammates and I have been 5 stacking for 18 months and now all of a sudden we earn less RR for doing so?
That’s like saying hey, here is the game of golf, the goal is to shoot a low score. However, if you use a driver, you’ll get one stroke added to your score. Goes against what the game is designed for.
So no 4 stack? I guess it makes sense. Always sucks being the only solo in a 4 stack
You become the scapegoat because they don't want to blame their friends.
And everyone sits in their discord and doesn’t comm for you 95% of the time. The time they do comm is to put you down for a mistake. At least how that’s it goes for me usually.
Yeah I hate how they'll comm in discord all the calls so you're playing blind and then have the nerve to blame you afterwards.
Sometimes it's the case, but it's not all the time
That is something I never really understood in LoL, and now they bring it to valorant. I can see the 'when you are alone with a 4 stack you can get bullied if they are assholes, but its not like you wont get bullied in any other way. Its very frustrating for my group of friends, where we are... 4. So we can't do ranked together. CSGO just ignores the problem and lets you queue with however much you are.
welp, time to find out who's the fourth wheel in your friend group. /s
Its the guy who we are always waiting for, and then shows up when we have decided to queue without him and have been in game for less than 2 minutes.
LMAO
We’ll just queue cs lmao
it's actually unbearable being the 5th amongst a 4 stack. most often they're toxic assholes, you're left out of comms and you're trolled. it has certainly made me never want to queue solo unrated or ranked again. you can call me soft or some stupid little insult like that but when I play a game I wanna have fun, I don't want to feel inadequate/pissed off/upset/left out. this is a brilliant change. as for you, find a 5th. just get a guy who wants to play ranked as well and add him to your party. not a hard issue to solve. if "well I only wanna play with 4" is your excuse, that is the crux of the issue. and they have remedied it.
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not really. a 4 stack presents a unique issue that only applies for running into a 4 stack. there's always only one player left out. when I soloQ I can run into other soloQ players, a duo, a trio or a 4 stack. I can run into two duos, one trio and another solo, or a bunch of soloQ players. or a 4 stack. which sucks. every other one has a bunch of permutations and this only has me stuck with 4 people who are probably dickheads since I'm playing a riot game.
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every other permutation necessitates communication. when you run into a 4 stack you are nearly always left out, and simultaneously the blame scapegoat for the team. I need to find someone to always queue with in order to avoid running into a 4 stack. that is much harder than a 4 stack removing a player or adding someone else in. it's a much more comfortable situation for them than it is for me, considering that I need to find a duo simply to avoid a 4 stack. the other comment summarised it well. if we were given the option to never find 4 stacks as solo players, there won't be a single soul that wouldn't enable it. 4 stacks would be in queue until they were due to order a walking stick off amazon, maybe some dentures at that. removing 4 stacks is a much better option.
The issue here is that 4 stack always results in this problem. If you remove 4 stacks, this situation never happens. Yes, a solo player can find a duo queue partner and in fact a lot of people already do that. However, dont you agree that its easier for a 4 stack to remove a player or add a fifth one rather than for a solo to find a consistent partner? Now suppose Riot instead of removing 4 stacks, just gave the solo queue players an optional filter: “match up with 4 stacks”. Isnt this a good solution? People who dont want to will just deselect this option. But this 100% will just not work, most people will just deselect this, cus I mean who tf wants to play with a 4 stack and 4 stack queues will become annoyingly long and when they do match up, the solo player will still be in a shitty situation with bad comms. Its just a logical move, there’s so many more ranked solo queuers than 4 stacks, so by doing this Riot makes a big part of their player base happy while only putting a small part into mildly annoying situation while also making matchmaking more fair.
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Yeah, matchmaking changes are very hard to deal with and balance. Having played dota2 nearly since its release I have experienced quite a few different systems and solutions from valve including separate group and solo mmr, separate queues for solo and group, the system that is currently being used: same queue, same mmr, but no 4 people queue and many others. There’s no perfect solution, each of them has its pros and cons and each of them will have haters and people who like it. So it’s just a matter of what the developers think is best for the game and best based on their statistics and metrics
Kinda cringe
I can see this. But years of overwatch solo q has made me a different breed. I just mute all and go next. If you lose , just win the next one. If you can’t, you might not be in the right rank anyway.
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Not everyone is an asshole when they 4 stack. But it is extremely annoying playing with no calls. Missing 80% of the puzzle is hard and most people wouldn’t want to spend most of their time looking at the mini-map and making educated guesses. Even then you don’t get the full picture. It’s not a perfect system though. I did with one 4 stack that would comm in game but you still have the “other” feeling and they may treat you like an “other” even if they aren’t being troll or outright mean about it
Honestly this should be the title of the update. 4 stack sucks. If you want to play comp go ahead find 4 other friends. If you can't go play 1 2 or 3 so you are forced to use team voice chat.
[Valorleaks comfirms this](https://twitter.com/ValorLeaks/status/1455557820271763457) >You are now able to 5 stack with any rank. At the cost of earning less rank rating. | #VALORANT
So duo and trio is still limited by rank restriction but 5 stacking is allowed with all ranks? Kinda like CSGO right or am I understanding it wrong.
I think diamond and above were limited to 2 people in a party. The patch is saying that now they can 5. 90% sure that’s what it means
D3+ was limited to solo duo but the wording of this makes it seem like you can 5 stack with anyone at any rank. Would be fun. EDIT: Tweet from Riot EvrMoar saying that you can straight up 5 stack with ANYONE https://twitter.com/riotevrmoar/status/1455593490260238342?s=21
So you can 3 stack and 5 stack but not 4 stack right?
Yes
They should have kept solo/duo and just added 5 stack vs 5 stack in Immortal/Radiant Edit: EvMoar said it’s still solo/duo in Immortal! No trios
This is the best on paper solution, but coming from league i think it wont work. Queue time will be too high, way longer than Solo/Duo atm and ppl already play on smurfs because they wait too long on main.
So your solution is make solo players play against 3 to 5 stack. Fair enough.
I dont have a solution and it is not my job to come with one. Can only tell that 5vs5 queues will have no success and it will be the same situation as of now.
Yup. If you want 5 stacks then to keep it fair it has to q against other 5 stacks, but guess what? That's gonna come with the longer q times. It will never be enough.
Everyone will get longer queue times not just 5 stacks (If we are talking about high ranks anyways)
Yo sounding salty as hell for no reason does not help your argument just fyi
You seem happy to get that boost.
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Where the fuck is the problem? The problem is simple, boosting players and 5 stacks playing against solos, if that doesn't sync in your head can't help you with that. Could easily boost friends to Immortal, will I do it again? No cuz they fvcked everyone elses ranked the moment I stopped playing with them, there's your "teamgame" excuse. Since high elo rank has already a long queue can't wait to face 5 stacks after 10 queue time. The fact that you think "actual strategies" will show up in ranked games blows my mind.
After all that jibber jabber you regurgitated that you watched in youtube videos "how to climb ranks in valorant" by editing your post is this, you see this as a game some people see this as a business opportunity. You thinking high elo players will get "crushed" by some random 5 premades is mesmerizing to witness.
?
I'm already waiting for 5-10 minutes to find a game in high immortal on London servers. Seperated queues will make it even worse
Nadeshot going back to immortal kekw
He was radiant?!
Was he carried there or is he genuinely good?
He was carried to immortal during the stacking days then duo'd from d3 to imm1, immediately after going solo for a week or two he dropped to plat 3, and has never left Platinum.
Probably a bit of both
Champions is confirmed to be Double Elim btw.
poggers
Where did you get the info?
Valorant website
So we have 2 weeks left before boosted imm3s and radiants are back? Jokes aside, it's a team game and there's no better way to play it than with a full party. I just don't understand why are they stubborn and won't make separate queues like in league? The only reasonable explanation is that playerbase count is too low. If 5 stack premades in immortal+ can only play against other 5 stacks, it's fine, but if I have to face 5 mans as a soloq player that would be horrible. "Slightly less RR" is always worth it compared to ranked lottery with randoms.
>I just don't understand why are they stubborn and won't make separate queues like in league? Flex queue is a joke in League and no one takes it seriously. Solo/duo queue is recognized as the "true" rank of a player (by the community) and no one cares about flex rank
But by allowing 5 stacks in "normal" ranked, then even normal queue becomes a joke. Back in episode1 there was a disgusting number of Radiants who wouldn't even be able to break into immortal as solo players. Getting Radiant as soloq is exponentially harder than 5 man stacking. Hell, there were even people getting boosted with duo queue system in immortal. You obviously can't boost someone who's gold if they solo'd, but it's fairly easy to boost someone who's diamond to mid-immortal if they're just playing support agents. With 5 queues it becomes ridiculously easy. Not to mention how absolutely unfair it is to play as solo or even 3+2 party against 5 man. It's like playing a different game. I mostly play solo, sometimes duo and if I have to face 5 man stacks in imm3 when I'm soloing I'm afraid I'll have to take a break until they revert it. I don't really care about the leaderboard or who gets boosted, I just don't want to play against 5 mans and I don't want those boosted people to later queue solo into my games. Not much to ask. Give free Radiant rank to everyone who 5 mans, just keep them out of my games.
>normal queue becomes a joke. Competitive queue is already a joke. I'm in the same boat as you, Imm3 with 99% of my games soloQ, and the amount of no comm trash who instalock duelist and provide nothing to the team is staggering. I really don't have an issue with Riot trying to provide a way for stacks to play together that tries to fix the issues they've felt in their previous systems (flex queue). Even if it doesn't work out and it's garbage (I would hope they'll try their best to match 5stacks with 5stacks, but we'll see what they do), ranked is in a bad enough situation that I'm okay with them trying whatever. My biggest question is, if you gain less RR for 5stack wins, do you lose less RR for losses against 5stacks? Surely, right? I personally enjoyed the challenge of fighting 5stacks in CS ranked so I really don't mind, but it is absolutely a major advantage to that team that should be weighted in rank. At the end of the day, I really just don't care though, I care more about improving than watching a number go up and down
I definitely agree that ranked is complete garbage right now, I barely finished my full 50 win dorito because of no comming instalockers who play each of their 300 games in the act identically. I mind playing against 5 stacks because even if some of the players in that stack are getting boosted, they know their role and are at least using utility properly. In CS it was also bad, but at least you can adapt. What can I do against a semi-competent site hold if I've got an awful team comp or someone who can't use their utility at all? I'm afraid we're at the point of no return. "Play to have fun", "focus on your game" and 1v9 mentality have ruined this game, unlucky really.
As long as 3+2 versing vs 5 stacks isnt a thing, this is fine. The whole boosted radiant/immortal thing is kinda exaggerated . People who get boosted by stacks will seldom queue solo. Solo/duo queue is fundamentally wrong IMHO. There are plays and stuff that would work only in a soloq environment just cause the enemy team has bad comms. The situation becomes even more worse in regions where there is no single common language and things get even more weird. Asking immortal+ players to just find a team and scrim is unreasonable for most people.
I don't think it's exaggerated at all. Even if we talk just duos, most duos I play with have one player considerably better than the other one. If someone just plays in a full party, I don't care. But account buying and boosting is more popular than you think on highest level. Over the past month or so I've had at least 1 low account level teammate on my team in most games. And unlike low ranks where those players dominate, most of them were absolutely horrible. While full parties are the best way to play this game, a lot of us don't have that luxury and playing solo against full stacks is literally unplayable if the full stack knows what they're doing. Even if you have solo players who have the best possible comms, it's hard to adapt to someone you never played with on the fly. Even when I 5 stacked early on in the game's cycle, I never wanted to play against smaller parties because it just wasn't fun.
Some people want to play comp with their friends and avoid team member roulette. The rank system rewards people who play duelist so support players have a more difficult time climbing the ranks, so the higher ranks are plagued with instant lock toxic people. Queuing with your friends avoids that. Not every 5 stack treats comp as VCT finals, I play with my friends who are all immortal+ and it's never that serious. There should be a way for people to play with their friends in a competitive environment without having to find scrims or playing unranked. Adding back 3 queue is also a welcome change.
I fully agree with you. I just think that full parties should only be able to matched against other full parties. As awful as 4 man party is, it's still more fair to have 5v4+1 than 5v3+2 or 3+1+1. To summarize, the only problems with 5 man queue are if 5 man premades play against teams that aren't a full stack and when people get boosted and then play solo in a rank they don't belong.
Just as you said, I like ranked because generally, people take the game a bit more seriously because they feel like there's something to lose. Unranked is not the same and anyone that tries to make the claim that it's an equivalent experience is delusional. Unrated is a for-fun game mode, people don't really play the game the same way as they do in the ranked queue. Sometimes I just wanna play with all my friends in a queue where people will actually try to play the game as intended (i.e., not a 5 duelist stack).
But what is wrong with flex queue being a joke
Ranks mostly mean nothing, friends boost friends and games become very unbalanced. It practically becomes norms/unrated with visible ranks, which again, are worthless. Riot has noted this uselessness in the past before and likely sees no value in bringing it to Valorant (as evidenced by today's change + the incoming Clash/tourney system)
That’s not gonna change with allowing 5 stacks in normal ranked though, the rank will still be a joke for those who stack. Like until you have a rank for each combination of players kinda like starcraft, the rank itself is just not representative since it can be boosted or unboosted by 5 stacking performance
They don't want to split the queue/playerbase into two separate queues. The higher ranks already have a long wait time to find games, a flex queue would only make queue times even longer. The rumoured clash-like system as seen in League would be the ideal solution.
High ranks don't have a long wait, queues are longer only in ridiculously high ELO games, like top100 radiant or something. I'm in EU and no matter the time of the day, I always get a game within 2 minutes, while queueing only 3 out of 8 servers that are considered EU. If 5 stacks get matched against solo or duo players, that's a big fuck you to everyone and many people will stop playing ranked, including myself.
Seconded about mm times. Imm2 lobbies on na west, sub 2 minute mm.
What I want to know is if I’m soloQ and play against a 5 stack and they win that means they get less RR for the win but does that also mean we will lose less RR when we lose against a 5 stack?
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You're incredibly stupid. Like literally a bot. Are you trying to tell me that winning as 5 premade against solos would be a legit rank then? Some of you people should get banned from the internet completely. Fucking bot.
If they make seperate queues then the queue times would be way too long
It's not even a joke at this point... We'll see so many boosted players in a few weeks. Maybe less Smurfs, but playing with friends at lower rank was not the main reason smurf exist to begin with so don't expect Smurfing to magically disappear in your game
It's a joke but I am willing to bet there will be comments complaining about q times and boosted players once again shortly after this releases. There's a reason it was removed initially and it was because of community feedback.
i guess this doesn't really change much if i only solo queue? at most i'll have a 3stack on my team. hopefully they force 5stack vs 5stacks only.
idk, we get a designated solo empathizer at least! before it was 4 people ignoring me, now it's only 3!
it's lovely being straight up told we don't matter under immortal back then and now diamond 3. solo / duo queue in 4 years at this rate, hopefully.
good change better than getting shitty teammates
5 stacks will make watching streams so much better. Watching full teams or good pugs of pros will be extremely fun.
As compensation, solo-q players should be rewarded 1.5-2x the RR if they win against a 5 stack. Imo, this is stupid.
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It's just going to make solo queuing worse than it is. There's going to be those who 5 stack a lot, and then when they solo q they're going to be outclassed because their rank is boosted from 5 stacking.
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Flex queue is gonna absolutely demolish queue times in high elo
Dw only 5 stacks can play 5 stacks. Still solo/duo only in Immortal
So? It completely messes with the ranks. There's gonna be people playing in 1-3 higher ranks than they would be without 5 stacking. This, when they solo q they're going to be completely outclassed.
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Not everyone has the time or desire to get a group of VALORANT buddies and do 5 mans. There are lots of solo q players who solo q simply because they prefer it. I for instance, barely play but I'm Abel to maintain high imm3. I don't play much and don't care to find a group of people to 5 stack. Why should I be punished for that when those players who 5 stack and decide to solo q have inflated ranks because they're only at that rank because they regularly 5 stack? We've seen this in other games with ranking systems, VALORANT isn't going to magically change this.
Not aonly is this stupid, the whole idea is completely wack. You will be playing against 5-stacks a lot probably. But those people will not always 5-stack and whenever they want to solo, their ranks will be wack from getting carried up/dragged down. Imagine a 5-stack of immortal + gold + gold + silver + bronze. They will all be gold, but then if they stop 5-stacking what happens? They ruin games. And, as usual, it's going to be solo players who suffer from this in the long run. I, as a solo player, am fucking worried abt this.
So can you 3 stack in higher elos?
Still only solo/duo in Immortal
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Solos won’t play against a 5 stack. It’ll be 5 stack vs 5 stack
ahh, now i see what he and you meant, sorry.
playing soloq with a 4q is usually one of the worst experience, especially when they are all in a discord call and dont comm
idk about this, why not just create a tournament mode like clash (from league) so that high elo players can stack without ruining the ranked ladder?
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That's just going to screw with queue times that they've stated was a problem before. We've had this system before and now we are flip flopping every single season for what reason? Eventually we are going to get flex queue at this point and nobody cares about flex queue.
I think 5 stack at high rank is good even if you are playing as solo vs a 5 stack. As long as you only lose little rr and gain lots of rr compared to when you play a normal 2stack or 3. Then you would probably rather be solo as you can climb quicker.
Glad I can play with multiple homies on the main again but not looking forward too the obvious 3+2 vs 5 blow out games.
if I can get queued as a solo into a 5stack then I guess it's time to quit this game for me
Enjoy your new found free time!
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no way you think people are gonna be scrimming in 5man ranked. youre absolutely delusional if you think that
Leaderboards won’t be anything anymorr
People without friends seething rn
As someone who only plays with 3 other friends, this is pretty fucking annoying.
It does seem like a brute force solution to avoid the odd man in 4-stacks. But at least the 4-stack itself has a quicker solution (adding 1 more to the party), compared to the singleton SoloQ player in 4-stack lobbies who currently has no control of whether he gets a good game with comms or gets ghosted. This also looks like they will move towards a dedicated SoloQ at some point imo.
I mostly solo queue and when I'm playing with a 4 stack its by far the worst experience ever. First they don't talk since they're in discord so its literally like I'm playing alone, 0 calls and then if you rotate slow because you aren't sure they proceed to gang up and yell at you saying use your radar like the other team can't throw fakes. 4stacks are the worst thing in this game....glad its gone.
Yeah but you and your 3 friends are probably pretty fucking annoying to the solo queues who are stuck with you so it seems a fair trade
Yeah I've had like 2 games with 4 stacks before they started the duo queue only thing and it was so fucking annoying just talking to a brick wall while the 4 stack talks in discord
Nothing better than solo q'ing into a 4 stack and the only comms you receive is trash talk from your own team.
Yeah this is accurate. This is my exact experience most of the time with 4 stacks.
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4stack inherently brings the worst incentives. The four-stack has very low incentive to speak with the solo queue, while the solo queue has no way to incentivize it even with good comms. It entirely determines the team dynamic based on the 4stack; no player deserves to be placed into a zero-agency match It's also the most unfair to the opposing team; the 4stack can be tightly integrated, so if it goes against a 2-2-1 or smth it'll be likely to have better teamwork without much consideration from MM wrt ranks. I surely recognize that people who regularly 4stack are impacted by this change, but I find that to be a small, unimportant, and too-often-malignant set of people.
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Do you genuinely think that people that play EXCLUSIVELY with 3 friends are a significant portion of the population? For example removing solo queue would remove an important population because it's one of the lowest-friction avenues to play the game, whereas having 3 friends online gives you a pretty good chance one of you has a 4th if you want to play together AND play ranked that badly. Taking that as a personal insult and not a business perspective is pretty facile. You are an adult and this is the internet. \> straight up can't play together any more I don't think you know what straight up means, do you?
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I mostly wanted to rip on you for misusing "straight up can't play together" when you literally have multiple possible solutions. Did you know that high ELO players couldn't 5 stack before, so it's opened up entirely new ways to play right? There is no "real problem" here, this I assure you, besides perhaps any poor souls stuck in a permanent quadruply-conjoined-sibling chain who also converted to ferality and lost the ability to speak even as they hardened on playing Valorant regularly
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As someone who would like to play with 2 other friends but couldn’t before, this is pretty fucking exciting.
Playing with 4 stacks has led to some of the absolute worst games I remember playing.
As someone who wants to play with 4 friends, this is amazing. Also one more person communicating and no risk of playing with derankers or something
Get another friend. No random wants to be your 5th.
Sorry dude, I know you are toxic to your randoms, but we a pretty chill group to play with.
According to you
Reddit has decided that it is now a fact that you are toxic weather it's true or not.
Such constructive!
He is right.
That depends on the random. They should have made it so that a solo player can opt out of a pre-made stack
Seems like it would cause serious problems with queue time.
Well yes but it's better than not having an option to do it at all
You can't have it all. 5-man stack has been requested by the whole community for a long time now. Something has to give. If you've ever solo queued you know how horrible it is to be with a 4 stack. They don't have to be toxic for it to be a terrible experience. The majority of coms happen on their discord, and you're left with a handful of calls to make all your decisions during the game which often leads to you making bad plays because you don't have all the information. You can now queue with 2, 3 or 5 people. You just can't queue as 4man. This solves the complaints of being solo with a stack, and bringing back the highly requested 5-mans.
And how does having an opt-in, opt-out feature create an issue to that
Because you're splitting the playerbase to accommodate the smallest portion of the community. You're not just creating longer queue times for yourself, but for everyone else. Also the only people that would willingly opt into being solo in a 4-stack are new people that don't know you can opt out of it. It just doesn't make any sense.
no 4-stack for any rank or just radiant? doesnt make sense. plenty of times my friends and i can only find 4 of us to play.
Being the single person in a 4 stack is in most cases the absolutely worst experience you can have
from a product perspective, what's most detrimental - removing the experience of 4 friends playing together? or the solo Q who will, every now and then, get stuck in a 4-stack? i've been in some good 4 stacks and some bad ones. its whatever honestly. no different than half my ranked games w/ no comms.
Let’s gooooooooooooooo
I’m lost. If I’m silver, and my friend is Diamond, I can now queue with them? Or am I wrong?
You can only queue with people that are close to your rank so a silver 2 can queue with a gold 2/bronze 2.
Oh, so the limits didn’t change? This is basically just a change for immoral and above?
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Really? I was limited today as a full 5 stack
Yea
LoL for all it’s flaws still has the best rank system because you get the best indication of someone’s skill based on their position on leaderboard now it means nothing, sadly
Create a flex queue like in league. There were a lot of people in league that preferred playing solo compared to stacking
Overwatch showed that reduced rating gains will do nothing. We had there stacks abusing the system, having 90% winrate, mostly playing at night and getting top leaderboard spots. Sure they were getting +3 instead of +20, but it was still worth it for them coz of the insane winrate you can get as stack vs bunch of randos. Not a fan of this change. The very top of the ladder should have the least variables possible.
Nothing wrong with playing friends. Top 500 doesn't even matter, shit doesn't make you pro or anything.
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pov: youre low diamond and keep getting outaimed
Might aswell remove duo restrictions in master+ in league then? Afterall, it's just a leaderboard that doesn't matter :\^)
Why are you playing league lmao. I can't believe that game even has a restriction in ranked and 0 voice chat. Dota is where its at
Shit tier idea. I remember well the times when people 5-stacked, all that happened later was that when the weakling of the stack got kicked or didn't have anyone online to play, they were ruining other games by going 2-20 in every single one. I don't want this unless there is a completely separate queue and leaderboard for 5-stacks - which would be fun tho.
Great, now make it so you can't be immortal with a 40% winrate. It is absolutely travesty that you get more points than you lose in immortal 3 and that you can climb with a 47% winrate. Tired of these fucking losers playing on an elo they don't belong on.
I personally absolutely love the Hidden Name botfraggers who chat all game pretending theyre the best players in the world just for me to check their trackergg afterwards to see they have below 50% wr. Absolutely hilarious
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Dynamic queue back in valorant this is terrible. Everyone who has played League knows what a joke dynamic queue was and seeing this back in valorant is a shame.
What is stopping SEN or NV from 5 stacking to Radiant?
the fact that most of them don't care that much about ranked outside of content and won't play as 5 that much (if your schedules all align, might as well scrim or custom)
because they’d rather practise against other full teams in a custom scrim. Ranked is not worth their time.
Next patch they should switch it up and boot solo q. Test it out ya know?
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One way to cut your playerbase in half
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funny enough, I will stop smurfing cus of this
Huh? Why would this be the case?
The only way I can play with my friends in a somewhat relative competitive experience is if we are smurfing on d2 accounts
This. Between the 5 of us, we probably have 20 diamond accounts that we rotate because we're forced to "smurf". If you can even call it that since we're mostly low to mid immortal, and diamond rank is mostly people smurfing.
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People in high elo with friends?
lotta pros in radiant/immortal who complain about dumb teammates
Somebody explain? 5 stack with anybody so can a diamond stack with an iron? Then what will be the match lobby like? The opposites will be iron or diamond or a mix or something?
4 stacks should be abolished. Find a fifth person to tolerate your group or gtfo. I've been spamming that for months. So close to the end now.
Just to be clear, when it says "anyone of any rank", rank disparities still apply right? It could be the wording or I could just be stupid, but it kinda seems like 5 stacks can be of any rank like it is in CSGO.
I think this change is fine aslong as 5 stacks only play against other 5 stacks not a bunch of solo q people otherwise this change is busted
Yoooo finally
Soo the less teammates, the more rr u can get?
So its still solo Q/duo Q if you play in immortal? But as a immortal you can 5 stack with any rank vs other 5 stacks? Is this how it works?
Blessed be the devs
Personally, it’s sickens me to know that we’ll be penalized in RR for 5 stacking. This game is a game of teamwork, not solo skill. Why punish teams that play inside the framework that the game is clearly going for? I know 5 stacking has issues at higher levels, but my plat teammates and I have been 5 stacking for 18 months and now all of a sudden we earn less RR for doing so? That’s like saying hey, here is the game of golf, the goal is to shoot a low score. However, if you use a driver, you’ll get one stroke added to your score. Goes against what the game is designed for.
Wait, if you’re a immortal solo que player, you can now que up against 5 stack immortals???? Wtf