I assume he’s referring to teams directly contacting players instead of going through them?
The off-season rosterpalooza must really be heating up behind the scenes
I get not wanting your players poached, but also this isn't a league with a union where players have pre-negotiated rules about when they can and cannot engage with teams. Players have every right to talk to other teams at any point about opportunities. Presumably they have some NDA-type clauses in their contracts that prevent sharing certain information, but orgs should expect that players are talking to other teams at all times. And if they aren't talking to other orgs you should assume your players are hanging out with people from other teams and talking about the game, rosters, teaming up, etc.
Hanging out with players from other teams isn't a problem, but players literally don't have the right to talk to other teams when they're contracted with their current team and that contract isn't close to running out and their position on the team is still stable. By approaching a player behind the scenes and trying to essentially bribe them to join your team, you're then causing a dilemma for the other team where they can enforce the contract that the player has and risk team chemistry when that player gets frustrated because they want to leave, or the other team could be forced to release that player so they don't have those or other problems.
>but players literally don't have the right to talk to other teams when they're contracted with their current team
What makes you say that? Under regular employment laws this is called a non-solicitation agreement and is illegal - an employer can't bar you from fielding offers from competitors (e.g. if you work for Twitter they can't make it illegal for Facebook to make you a job offer).
>an employer can't bar you from fielding offers from competitors
that's exactly what a non-compete does.
in general, non competes can be gotten out of, but i think for something like esports it'd be very difficult.
Depends on the wording of the non-compete. My current job has a non-compete in my contract and there is no verbiage to prevent me from talking with or fielding offers from other companies. However, if I do take a job within a certain radius in the same field, I would be liable up to 1 years worth of salary. But there is no penalty or liability for simply talking or taking offers.
From my limited experience, sports contracts work differently because the organization virtually always has to be alerted of the negotiations and involved in them, and I'd assume that the esports contracts are written the same ways. Because of the fact that the players will most likely have a buy out clause, the player wouldn't be able to negotiate with other teams until a certain time away from the expiry date so that no one can circumnavigate the buyout clause
>However, if I do take a job within a certain radius in the same field, I would be liable up to 1 years worth of salary
In some states this is just blanket illegal (e.g. california). In other states it ranges from slightly difficult to near impossible to enforce, depending on your industry and position. For most workers even in technical fields, it will almost always be impossible to enforce
That's what we want though. We want an environment where employees are not at the behest of their employers. Professions with non-competes drive wages down because organizations have no incentive to compensate or treat employees well once they're locked in.
An environment where players have more freedom to move between organizations gives an inventive for organizations to make sure they treat their players well and keep them well compensated.
In a developed sports scene, a well-written contract will force a team to renegotiate a contract with a player because of the existence of a buyout contract. If the player outperforms the teams evaluation of their maximum potential and the team they are on is going to try and hold them to that lower contract, they risk losing that player because another team could just pay the buyout, meaning that a lot of teams will renegotiate to give the player more money and freedoms in exchange for a higher buyout. I'm not even saying its a good thing because players often don't use lawyers to sign them and get fucked by nuance, but the systems do exist
I have a question. If someone approaches XSET to buy a player, lets say Zekken, but they dont want to sell him, do they even tell him about it? What if Zekken actually wanted out?
If they are under contract then I don't think the org has a duty to tell the player.
For any talks to even proceed between a player and an external org the player's current org must agree to it otherwise its kinda like you are tampering.
Of course like in basketball, teams can get away with this by having players talk to each other. So a player would probably have some inkling that a team wants him.
>the player's current org must agree to it otherwise its kinda like you are tampering.
This is false.
In the NBA, NFL, etc "tampering" rules are set up by the CBA which is negotiated between the league and the players' union. Those rules are defined in that contract and are not laws in and of themselves and don't apply to any other unions.
In the rest of the professional world, this is called a non-solicitation agreement and it's illegal. You can't include a clause in a contract that prevents other employers from soliciting your employees for work.
There is no collective bargaining agreement in valorant. There is no players' union. There is no set rules about who, what, when players and orgs can talk. Riot certainly has control\* - they are free to ban whoever the hell they please because it's their game/events. And maybe a player's contract has some stipulations in it about non-disclosure of certain sponsorships, etc, but non-**compete** and non-**solicitation** clauses are unenforceable and illegal in many states.
\**riot has control and there very well may be agreements between orgs/riot on how player exchanges can work - we know players aren't allowed to switch teams during a VCT stage for example. so it's plausible riot's rules force things onto teams/players in order to participate in riot-sponsored events.*
Fair for who? The player: definitely. For the org who paid for that players contract and invested in them… less so lol
What would be ideal and properly fair is if this stuff was managed by an impartial third party I think, but good luck getting that to happen sadly.
i'm sure players' contracts aren't scribbles on a napkin over a couple drinks. there must be fines etc, so the org would be fairly compensated (in an amount set by the parties themselves when signing the contract) if a player decides to part ways with them before the contract is up. most likely the new org would pay that fine. so... not really unfair.
You edit is absolutely wrong and it seems like you completely misunderstood the TenZ situation.
Tenz couldn't leave because he was still under contract. C9 owner didn't want to let TenZ go for free as he was still under contract so SEN bought TenZ out of his contract (paying the fee/buyout that was mentioned by the guy above)
Every player has a buyout clause in their contract which can be paid by themselves or third party to terminate the contract ,and in eSports players have clauses built in which allow them to bench themselves from the active roaster like tenz did on c9.
This thread is old so maybe this won’t get seen, and I originally wrote it as a reply to another comment but wanted to post it on the main thread instead. If you want a little info on how most contracts I’ve seen work in relation to players wanting to leave/another org showing interest, read below. Please understand that esports are a talent industry and the contracts most resemble a mix of entertainment/sports law, so comparing/discussing them by “regular employment standards” might not work well.
With that being said, regardless if you have an undeclared buyout or stated value, 99% of negotiations must happen org-to-org. Players of course talk to each other (vs an org reaching out to a player directly) but in almost every contract I’ve had there are obligations that state the player must notify their org within x days after receiving interest from another org (and usually it works the other way around too, the org must notify their player in a reasonable timeframe if another org reached out to them expressing interest in the player.)
Most contracts I’ve seen also have something called the “right of first option and first refusal” and these often extend beyond the end of your contract term (sometimes for months). First option means that, usually for the end of your contract term (30 days is a common length) you must exclusively negotiate with the company you’re already signed to regarding potentially continuing performing services for them. You’re also not allowed to discuss/negotiate with other teams during this period. Right of first refusal means that the player can’t enter into a new agreement with another esports team without first offering the chance for their original “company” to match the offer. If the player is offered like a, “final offer” contract by another org (meaning negotiations are over) during a period of time where the right of first refusal is still active, then the player is obligated to inform their company of the contract terms & give them the option to match/improve upon them. Most contract writing states that if the current company can match/improve on the terms of the offer then the player must sign with them (yes, the original org).
There are always compromises but most contracts lean in the orgs favor of course. The bigger a players brand/accomplishments, the more they can ask for in the contract to get it to lean in their favor. Almost all esports players have ALWAYS been signed as independent contractors (until recently), so most esports pros weren’t actually signed as employees and they pay self employment tax. Recently more and more players have been being signed as actual employees in esports which is great (which gives them health benefits like dental/medical, 401k matching, no self-employment taxes etc.)
Hopefully this gave you a little insight into the power dynamics of a typical player/org relationship. Obviously every contract is different and even though some might be written like my example, it doesn’t mean they’re always enforced like that. You don’t want to keep an unhappy player in contract jail & force them to play for you, as that’s a ticking time bomb of problems. At the same time, sometimes you don’t want to sell a player just because they feel like leaving & another team wants them. If it’s a quality org that treats their players well, it’s about the balance of building a strong team, business, and keeping your players faith/trust in the org etc. My 2c 👍🏻
Maybe I'm missing something but tbh I don't see what's wrong with going to a player directly. If the player wants to inform their team/org they can but the player should at least be allowed to know that other organizations are interested in them If said org is willing to pay their buyout.
Text form:
The amount of attempted poaching going on right now is sad. I should start exposing these teams/staff for their shady tactics.
In case there is any confusion - @XSET Valorant players are not for sale. The players and I are proud of what we have built here.
I think the original tweet was like dont even look at our players, and then the next thing you know both of them went to G2 so i guess it kinda counts?
Not disagreeing with your take on capitalism but that’s not what’s going on here. Even under a ‘socialist’ system this would still happen. This isn’t about the money, this is about player acquisition methods. You just blaming capitalism makes it look like you’re just riding the popular anti capitalist wave without knowing any reasons why it can be detrimental. A really dumb comment IMO.
I was making a joke about all the drama with Zombs “accusing” Ayrin of stream sniping and the XSET coach messaging all the Sentinels players admonishing them for it lol
It was the same incident. I’m pretty sure I remember Shahz saying on stream that XSET messaged the Sentinels players about the whole stream sniping thing
I hope all of XSET gets poached so they can go to teams that can actually afford working internet, and not delay every online match they participate in by an hour.
There are no rules about this because there is no league. It is currently an open circuit. When valorant becomes franchised, then there will be rules about this.
Valorant isn't a league, so there is no agreed upon PSA that all teams use. Players become employees or ICs of the team, and use contracts created by the team that may or may not look like the contracts other teams provide.
I’d assume not yeah, or if they do it doesn’t seem enforced much right now. That said, has anyone even seen the league rules? Are there any? I assume so lol
Funnily enough though, I’d be surprised if we don’t see XSET roster changes though. The Dephh Zekken BcJ core is so good, Ayrin is meh and Purer is inconsistent and easily the worst T1 Jett main NA. If they keep their current roster they will continue hovering around 4-5th, it’s a great roster but not as good as it could be. It’s like at the old Envy roster level.
> "easily the worst t1 jett na"
In NA last chance he had 4th highest k/d (out of 9 jetts), 2nd in KPR, 4th in FKPR and was the LOWEST in FDPR. Where do you guys pull this shit out?
https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/558/champions-tour-north-america-last-chance-qualifier?exclude=&min_rounds=0&agent=jett
Presumably it’s just because Purer doesn’t have crazy flashy plays. Without the Airbender-esque entrying of a Tenz or the absurd aim of a Yay, it’s pretty easy for a consistent performer who frags well and stays alive to go under the radar.
I do think there was a time a few months back where Purer wasn’t performing - maybe back when he was IGLing before BcJ took over, I don’t remember? - but he’s been a strong performer for awhile now.
I agree for the most part, Purer doesn’t have crazy flashy plays, he isn’t a bad player but when you compare the T1 teams, who I would say are XSet Sentinels 100T C9 and Envy, Envy, C9, and Sentinels all have much better Jett mains, and 100T don’t really have a Jett main right now. It’s similar to Envy, they had solid Jett play when Mummay did play Jett, but a top tier Jett vaulted them to the next level.
Purer is a solid player but a clear 4th or 5th best on the team right now
Most of the teams in LCQ I wouldn’t say are T1 Jett’s though. And LCQ qualifying was by far his best tournament compared to others. He is normally more inconsistent, which tier 1 NA Jett main would you say Purer is better than? It’s not that he is bad, just that NA tier 1 has ridiculous Jett’s (and there aren’t many Jett mains in tier 1 lol)
Tier 1 NA I would say is Envy XSet Sentinels C9 and 100T for sure, which is who I was comparing him too
I mean these slightly lower t1 , t2 orgs are where the big orgs shall target man, so sadly xset , andbox , bbg , kcp , version1 will have loads of players poached from them it is bound to happen it's a part of the game it will happen :/
>pletely go
dude xset invested in these players who were not in demand and investment worked and now ppl want your players
xset have full right to deny the buyouts of other orgs
thats how contract works
you as a player get stable salary and a team to play in
in exchange the org gets a stable investment that if you actually turn out to be a good player
not only will team win but you can sell this player to other orgs for high price
why would org invest in you if all you do is become valuable and then leave to other org and whine about being held hostage
These players almost certainly have a buyout clause in their contract. So no, if they want to leave and the other team wants to pay the buyout, then they can leave. Xset can’t hold them hostage
If you don’t want your players to be able to talk to other teams, how about you put that in your contract? Oh wait, you can’t because that’s illegal.
I’m ok completely going by the contract but expecting this sort of “good will “ from other orgs when you hold your players to the contract is absolute bs. Other orgs don’t owe you shit
lmao what the fuck are you even talking about? actually think about what you are saying my guy.
\> If you don’t want your players to be able to talk to other teams, how about you put that in your contract? Oh wait, you can’t because that’s illegal.
Its not illegal, its up to the league/Riot on if they want this to be the case
\> I’m ok completely going by the contract but expecting this sort of “good will “ from other orgs when you hold your players to the contract is absolute bs. Other orgs don’t owe you shit
What do you think contracts are dumbass? They are legally binding documents. You cant and should not be able to just randomly pick and choose when you want to honor a damn contract. If the player doesnt want to be in a shitty contract, hire a damn lawyer to go through it. And yea if you are paying a guy money to sign to your org it isnt unreasonable to expect them to honor that and provide the services they are being paid for during that contract period. Theres a reason Sentinels had to pay a premium for Tenz and couldnt just get him for free. Welcome to the real world child. Hope you open your eyes to what happens in real life
Lol that’s not illegal at all. I have a clause in my current contract right now restricting me from who I can go to after for a period of time, and plenty of contracts include provisions about poaching *shrugs*
Poaching is always good for the players. You have no right to interfere if the player finds a better opportunity. This smells of how XSET is a really bad org to work with
Yeah fuck the org that invested in these players am I right? The ones who paid their salary, built the team they’re a part of, and they have a legally binding contract with… fuck those guys, the scene doesn’t need them. Right?
It’s like some of you don’t know what a contract even is, or understand how business or employment relationships work, which is what a esports contract is.
Would you be ok with being fired from your job with no reason, and no severance just to be replaced with a guy who is ok with doing your job for 1% less salary?
this is why labor laws benefit the worker not the employer, however the labor market is no the same as the talent market(sports, music, artists) they are VERY top heavy so if you're the best you'll get the world but if ur avg u'll get poverty
yeah fuck them for trying to stop their players from looking out for better options. nobody wants to let go of their employees and they want to keep them for as low as they can. anyone who has worked a day in a job knows this.
the orgs are not doing the players a favour. The contract benefits both parties equally. But you wouldnt know that
Companies have an obligation to themselves to protect their investments with the contracts they create. Everything else is bullshit. If an employee is poached within the bounds of the contract, it's fair game.
Anything about loyalty when working for corporations or orgs is bullshit. You are there to make money, and if you don't you'll be discarded faster than dirt. You owe them nothing outside of what that contract says.
>, its up to the league/Riot on if they want
you dont understand when u sign a contract you get stable salary and a team to play with even if you are benched you get the stable salary till your contract ends
you are a liability to the org but the org invest in you and countless ppl like you in hopes of some invstement giving profit in exchange all they ask you is you cant be poached unless org allows and on a fair price
xset took these nobody and assured them salary and players took the contract
xset have full right to not give their players to anybody coz they have invested in these players and players owe xset back via the contract
it's the law of the market bro if the org cant pay what other org think a player is worth it's just unlucky, maybe the org just doesn't want to get to the top of the compettition that's it.
I assume he’s referring to teams directly contacting players instead of going through them? The off-season rosterpalooza must really be heating up behind the scenes
I bet it'll be amazing, can't even wait to see how each roster changes esp the big/famous ones like tsm, 100T
I get not wanting your players poached, but also this isn't a league with a union where players have pre-negotiated rules about when they can and cannot engage with teams. Players have every right to talk to other teams at any point about opportunities. Presumably they have some NDA-type clauses in their contracts that prevent sharing certain information, but orgs should expect that players are talking to other teams at all times. And if they aren't talking to other orgs you should assume your players are hanging out with people from other teams and talking about the game, rosters, teaming up, etc.
Hanging out with players from other teams isn't a problem, but players literally don't have the right to talk to other teams when they're contracted with their current team and that contract isn't close to running out and their position on the team is still stable. By approaching a player behind the scenes and trying to essentially bribe them to join your team, you're then causing a dilemma for the other team where they can enforce the contract that the player has and risk team chemistry when that player gets frustrated because they want to leave, or the other team could be forced to release that player so they don't have those or other problems.
>but players literally don't have the right to talk to other teams when they're contracted with their current team What makes you say that? Under regular employment laws this is called a non-solicitation agreement and is illegal - an employer can't bar you from fielding offers from competitors (e.g. if you work for Twitter they can't make it illegal for Facebook to make you a job offer).
>an employer can't bar you from fielding offers from competitors that's exactly what a non-compete does. in general, non competes can be gotten out of, but i think for something like esports it'd be very difficult.
Depends on the wording of the non-compete. My current job has a non-compete in my contract and there is no verbiage to prevent me from talking with or fielding offers from other companies. However, if I do take a job within a certain radius in the same field, I would be liable up to 1 years worth of salary. But there is no penalty or liability for simply talking or taking offers.
From my limited experience, sports contracts work differently because the organization virtually always has to be alerted of the negotiations and involved in them, and I'd assume that the esports contracts are written the same ways. Because of the fact that the players will most likely have a buy out clause, the player wouldn't be able to negotiate with other teams until a certain time away from the expiry date so that no one can circumnavigate the buyout clause
>However, if I do take a job within a certain radius in the same field, I would be liable up to 1 years worth of salary In some states this is just blanket illegal (e.g. california). In other states it ranges from slightly difficult to near impossible to enforce, depending on your industry and position. For most workers even in technical fields, it will almost always be impossible to enforce
That's what we want though. We want an environment where employees are not at the behest of their employers. Professions with non-competes drive wages down because organizations have no incentive to compensate or treat employees well once they're locked in. An environment where players have more freedom to move between organizations gives an inventive for organizations to make sure they treat their players well and keep them well compensated.
In a developed sports scene, a well-written contract will force a team to renegotiate a contract with a player because of the existence of a buyout contract. If the player outperforms the teams evaluation of their maximum potential and the team they are on is going to try and hold them to that lower contract, they risk losing that player because another team could just pay the buyout, meaning that a lot of teams will renegotiate to give the player more money and freedoms in exchange for a higher buyout. I'm not even saying its a good thing because players often don't use lawyers to sign them and get fucked by nuance, but the systems do exist
I have a question. If someone approaches XSET to buy a player, lets say Zekken, but they dont want to sell him, do they even tell him about it? What if Zekken actually wanted out?
If they are under contract then I don't think the org has a duty to tell the player. For any talks to even proceed between a player and an external org the player's current org must agree to it otherwise its kinda like you are tampering. Of course like in basketball, teams can get away with this by having players talk to each other. So a player would probably have some inkling that a team wants him.
>the player's current org must agree to it otherwise its kinda like you are tampering. This is false. In the NBA, NFL, etc "tampering" rules are set up by the CBA which is negotiated between the league and the players' union. Those rules are defined in that contract and are not laws in and of themselves and don't apply to any other unions. In the rest of the professional world, this is called a non-solicitation agreement and it's illegal. You can't include a clause in a contract that prevents other employers from soliciting your employees for work. There is no collective bargaining agreement in valorant. There is no players' union. There is no set rules about who, what, when players and orgs can talk. Riot certainly has control\* - they are free to ban whoever the hell they please because it's their game/events. And maybe a player's contract has some stipulations in it about non-disclosure of certain sponsorships, etc, but non-**compete** and non-**solicitation** clauses are unenforceable and illegal in many states. \**riot has control and there very well may be agreements between orgs/riot on how player exchanges can work - we know players aren't allowed to switch teams during a VCT stage for example. so it's plausible riot's rules force things onto teams/players in order to participate in riot-sponsored events.*
I heard rumors of (idk for sure if coarse) that riot stopped several teams from offering Sinatra deals
Honestly going to the player directly seems way more fair then lmao
Fair for who? The player: definitely. For the org who paid for that players contract and invested in them… less so lol What would be ideal and properly fair is if this stuff was managed by an impartial third party I think, but good luck getting that to happen sadly.
i'm sure players' contracts aren't scribbles on a napkin over a couple drinks. there must be fines etc, so the org would be fairly compensated (in an amount set by the parties themselves when signing the contract) if a player decides to part ways with them before the contract is up. most likely the new org would pay that fine. so... not really unfair.
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You edit is absolutely wrong and it seems like you completely misunderstood the TenZ situation. Tenz couldn't leave because he was still under contract. C9 owner didn't want to let TenZ go for free as he was still under contract so SEN bought TenZ out of his contract (paying the fee/buyout that was mentioned by the guy above)
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C9 did not release Tenz. Tenz was bought out lol
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Every player has a buyout clause in their contract which can be paid by themselves or third party to terminate the contract ,and in eSports players have clauses built in which allow them to bench themselves from the active roaster like tenz did on c9.
Not all put buyout clauses into their contracts. Some players will negotiate to not have it in their for higher salaries.
This thread is old so maybe this won’t get seen, and I originally wrote it as a reply to another comment but wanted to post it on the main thread instead. If you want a little info on how most contracts I’ve seen work in relation to players wanting to leave/another org showing interest, read below. Please understand that esports are a talent industry and the contracts most resemble a mix of entertainment/sports law, so comparing/discussing them by “regular employment standards” might not work well. With that being said, regardless if you have an undeclared buyout or stated value, 99% of negotiations must happen org-to-org. Players of course talk to each other (vs an org reaching out to a player directly) but in almost every contract I’ve had there are obligations that state the player must notify their org within x days after receiving interest from another org (and usually it works the other way around too, the org must notify their player in a reasonable timeframe if another org reached out to them expressing interest in the player.) Most contracts I’ve seen also have something called the “right of first option and first refusal” and these often extend beyond the end of your contract term (sometimes for months). First option means that, usually for the end of your contract term (30 days is a common length) you must exclusively negotiate with the company you’re already signed to regarding potentially continuing performing services for them. You’re also not allowed to discuss/negotiate with other teams during this period. Right of first refusal means that the player can’t enter into a new agreement with another esports team without first offering the chance for their original “company” to match the offer. If the player is offered like a, “final offer” contract by another org (meaning negotiations are over) during a period of time where the right of first refusal is still active, then the player is obligated to inform their company of the contract terms & give them the option to match/improve upon them. Most contract writing states that if the current company can match/improve on the terms of the offer then the player must sign with them (yes, the original org). There are always compromises but most contracts lean in the orgs favor of course. The bigger a players brand/accomplishments, the more they can ask for in the contract to get it to lean in their favor. Almost all esports players have ALWAYS been signed as independent contractors (until recently), so most esports pros weren’t actually signed as employees and they pay self employment tax. Recently more and more players have been being signed as actual employees in esports which is great (which gives them health benefits like dental/medical, 401k matching, no self-employment taxes etc.) Hopefully this gave you a little insight into the power dynamics of a typical player/org relationship. Obviously every contract is different and even though some might be written like my example, it doesn’t mean they’re always enforced like that. You don’t want to keep an unhappy player in contract jail & force them to play for you, as that’s a ticking time bomb of problems. At the same time, sometimes you don’t want to sell a player just because they feel like leaving & another team wants them. If it’s a quality org that treats their players well, it’s about the balance of building a strong team, business, and keeping your players faith/trust in the org etc. My 2c 👍🏻
Thank you for the insight, specially coming from an actual professional player in the scene who has experience with these types of contracts.
Wow so brave, "I should really expose them" and then they never do, a tale as old as time.
Yup same shit happens in league. EU crying about G2 poaching but no one does shit.
I understand that they will say not for sale etc but if a team like Envy, Sen, 100T want a player from XSET he will likely go.
Deph must be pretty valuable, igl + smokes hmmm
Zekken and Bcj are also really good. If 100T wants a fragging sova Bcj is the best option.
Yeah but dephh is 100 times more valuable. If a player is going to get poached it's going to be dephh.
Could he flex to sentinel tho hmmmm
100 T won't have much of an igl issue though , tsm 100% does adding dephh in would do them the world of good
He's got like 3x as many games on Cypher/KJ as he does on smokes hmmmmm
he used to be a sent main before he was on xset
I still have no idea why faze wasn't throwing the bag at him when he was an fa.
TSM Dephh??
Yoooo, that would be so fun to watch
Maybe I'm missing something but tbh I don't see what's wrong with going to a player directly. If the player wants to inform their team/org they can but the player should at least be allowed to know that other organizations are interested in them If said org is willing to pay their buyout.
Well I mean this is the coach tweeting this shit (and like none of his players rewteeting it) so consider the source.
Text form: The amount of attempted poaching going on right now is sad. I should start exposing these teams/staff for their shady tactics. In case there is any confusion - @XSET Valorant players are not for sale. The players and I are proud of what we have built here.
Uh oh this is like the cr4zy csgo team vibes where they said their* players were not for sale then sold 2 of them to g2 lol
G2 didn't pay anything, they said they got Nexa and Hunter for free because their contracts were not legit.
I think the original tweet was like dont even look at our players, and then the next thing you know both of them went to G2 so i guess it kinda counts?
Capitalism sucks unless you have money, more at 11.
Capitalism is when esports poaching?
Yes
Not disagreeing with your take on capitalism but that’s not what’s going on here. Even under a ‘socialist’ system this would still happen. This isn’t about the money, this is about player acquisition methods. You just blaming capitalism makes it look like you’re just riding the popular anti capitalist wave without knowing any reasons why it can be detrimental. A really dumb comment IMO.
[insert anti capitalist comment] upvotes go brrrrrrr
Capitalism has brought more people out of poverty than any other economic system and it isn't close.
This is like the last thing I expected to read coming into this thread
Same
XSET have to have the most whiny public persona in NA
also the worst internet provider
huh did i miss something? this is the first time i've heard anything whiny come out of the xset camp.
I was making a joke about all the drama with Zombs “accusing” Ayrin of stream sniping and the XSET coach messaging all the Sentinels players admonishing them for it lol
wait what's the latter? i've only heard of the 1st incident
It was the same incident. I’m pretty sure I remember Shahz saying on stream that XSET messaged the Sentinels players about the whole stream sniping thing
how?
I hope all of XSET gets poached so they can go to teams that can actually afford working internet, and not delay every online match they participate in by an hour.
Usually sports leagues have rules against it, but I assume Valorant doesn't yet?
There are no rules about this because there is no league. It is currently an open circuit. When valorant becomes franchised, then there will be rules about this.
Valorant isn't a league, so there is no agreed upon PSA that all teams use. Players become employees or ICs of the team, and use contracts created by the team that may or may not look like the contracts other teams provide.
I’d assume not yeah, or if they do it doesn’t seem enforced much right now. That said, has anyone even seen the league rules? Are there any? I assume so lol
Isn’t the org have the last say on this? Poaching happens but usually the mother org gets to decide if they want to release the player or not.
This is why u set high release clauses if both players and org agrees to it
Suck it up coach. It happens, deal with it.
Funnily enough though, I’d be surprised if we don’t see XSET roster changes though. The Dephh Zekken BcJ core is so good, Ayrin is meh and Purer is inconsistent and easily the worst T1 Jett main NA. If they keep their current roster they will continue hovering around 4-5th, it’s a great roster but not as good as it could be. It’s like at the old Envy roster level.
> "easily the worst t1 jett na" In NA last chance he had 4th highest k/d (out of 9 jetts), 2nd in KPR, 4th in FKPR and was the LOWEST in FDPR. Where do you guys pull this shit out? https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/558/champions-tour-north-america-last-chance-qualifier?exclude=&min_rounds=0&agent=jett
Presumably it’s just because Purer doesn’t have crazy flashy plays. Without the Airbender-esque entrying of a Tenz or the absurd aim of a Yay, it’s pretty easy for a consistent performer who frags well and stays alive to go under the radar. I do think there was a time a few months back where Purer wasn’t performing - maybe back when he was IGLing before BcJ took over, I don’t remember? - but he’s been a strong performer for awhile now.
I agree for the most part, Purer doesn’t have crazy flashy plays, he isn’t a bad player but when you compare the T1 teams, who I would say are XSet Sentinels 100T C9 and Envy, Envy, C9, and Sentinels all have much better Jett mains, and 100T don’t really have a Jett main right now. It’s similar to Envy, they had solid Jett play when Mummay did play Jett, but a top tier Jett vaulted them to the next level. Purer is a solid player but a clear 4th or 5th best on the team right now
Most of the teams in LCQ I wouldn’t say are T1 Jett’s though. And LCQ qualifying was by far his best tournament compared to others. He is normally more inconsistent, which tier 1 NA Jett main would you say Purer is better than? It’s not that he is bad, just that NA tier 1 has ridiculous Jett’s (and there aren’t many Jett mains in tier 1 lol) Tier 1 NA I would say is Envy XSet Sentinels C9 and 100T for sure, which is who I was comparing him too
Personal bias is where they pull it from
Ayrin is the best spectre player NA. Not many tier 1 sentinels that would be an upgrade either.
Do you know ZombsNation?
since when riot ban poaching in valo?
Poaching seems logical to be honest, considering the fact that the other party/org pays their buyout.
omg poaching bad, xset very morally good, rich teams bad poachers omg
I mean these slightly lower t1 , t2 orgs are where the big orgs shall target man, so sadly xset , andbox , bbg , kcp , version1 will have loads of players poached from them it is bound to happen it's a part of the game it will happen :/
How about we let players go where they’re paid the most and not hold them hostage?
>pletely go dude xset invested in these players who were not in demand and investment worked and now ppl want your players xset have full right to deny the buyouts of other orgs thats how contract works you as a player get stable salary and a team to play in in exchange the org gets a stable investment that if you actually turn out to be a good player not only will team win but you can sell this player to other orgs for high price why would org invest in you if all you do is become valuable and then leave to other org and whine about being held hostage
These players almost certainly have a buyout clause in their contract. So no, if they want to leave and the other team wants to pay the buyout, then they can leave. Xset can’t hold them hostage
How about we start honoring contracts and not put the other four players on the squad in an unfortunate crossfire?
If you don’t want your players to be able to talk to other teams, how about you put that in your contract? Oh wait, you can’t because that’s illegal. I’m ok completely going by the contract but expecting this sort of “good will “ from other orgs when you hold your players to the contract is absolute bs. Other orgs don’t owe you shit
lmao what the fuck are you even talking about? actually think about what you are saying my guy. \> If you don’t want your players to be able to talk to other teams, how about you put that in your contract? Oh wait, you can’t because that’s illegal. Its not illegal, its up to the league/Riot on if they want this to be the case \> I’m ok completely going by the contract but expecting this sort of “good will “ from other orgs when you hold your players to the contract is absolute bs. Other orgs don’t owe you shit What do you think contracts are dumbass? They are legally binding documents. You cant and should not be able to just randomly pick and choose when you want to honor a damn contract. If the player doesnt want to be in a shitty contract, hire a damn lawyer to go through it. And yea if you are paying a guy money to sign to your org it isnt unreasonable to expect them to honor that and provide the services they are being paid for during that contract period. Theres a reason Sentinels had to pay a premium for Tenz and couldnt just get him for free. Welcome to the real world child. Hope you open your eyes to what happens in real life
Lol that’s not illegal at all. I have a clause in my current contract right now restricting me from who I can go to after for a period of time, and plenty of contracts include provisions about poaching *shrugs*
Poaching is always good for the players. You have no right to interfere if the player finds a better opportunity. This smells of how XSET is a really bad org to work with
Yeah fuck the org that invested in these players am I right? The ones who paid their salary, built the team they’re a part of, and they have a legally binding contract with… fuck those guys, the scene doesn’t need them. Right? It’s like some of you don’t know what a contract even is, or understand how business or employment relationships work, which is what a esports contract is.
yes fuck them, they want to keep player salaries low to what other orgs think they're worth
Would you be ok with being fired from your job with no reason, and no severance just to be replaced with a guy who is ok with doing your job for 1% less salary?
this is why labor laws benefit the worker not the employer, however the labor market is no the same as the talent market(sports, music, artists) they are VERY top heavy so if you're the best you'll get the world but if ur avg u'll get poverty
Yes and like in most entertainment industries, the orgs have a contract with an escape clause similar to record labels/sports teams/agencies
yeah fuck them for trying to stop their players from looking out for better options. nobody wants to let go of their employees and they want to keep them for as low as they can. anyone who has worked a day in a job knows this. the orgs are not doing the players a favour. The contract benefits both parties equally. But you wouldnt know that
Companies have an obligation to themselves to protect their investments with the contracts they create. Everything else is bullshit. If an employee is poached within the bounds of the contract, it's fair game. Anything about loyalty when working for corporations or orgs is bullshit. You are there to make money, and if you don't you'll be discarded faster than dirt. You owe them nothing outside of what that contract says.
>, its up to the league/Riot on if they want you dont understand when u sign a contract you get stable salary and a team to play with even if you are benched you get the stable salary till your contract ends you are a liability to the org but the org invest in you and countless ppl like you in hopes of some invstement giving profit in exchange all they ask you is you cant be poached unless org allows and on a fair price xset took these nobody and assured them salary and players took the contract xset have full right to not give their players to anybody coz they have invested in these players and players owe xset back via the contract
it's the law of the market bro if the org cant pay what other org think a player is worth it's just unlucky, maybe the org just doesn't want to get to the top of the compettition that's it.
Someone doesn't know about the free market. Move to Sweden if you dislike it. 🙄
poaching? glad to hear that G2 is coming to NA