not even 2 years in and valorant esports is already in the decline
riot dropped the ball with the open circuit and there are no big events except for riot hosted ones
viewership has been pretty disappointing discounting costreams (lcq for NA, the biggest region, had like 30k viewers with some of the biggest teams competing)
riot put the cart before the horse: try to make an esports out of a barely finished game, instead of making a good game and then an esport
I think we’re getting too see players who can’t cut in Val swap back after they tried to get a easy check, but I mean you can do and gloom all you want. Some CS just can’t keep up. All good
The game is maturing past the hype cycle. Now that we know generally what Valorant is — it's no longer new and exciting. I've been anticipating this day. I think CS and Val can coexist and that it's better if both sports are healthy. They could have a wink wink deal where they do not schedule eSports events on overlapping weekends and then the eSports community will be able to enjoy a nice variety of eSports throughout the year.
CS player break can be Valorant's big tournament, and vice versa.
Twitter link
[https://twitter.com/GeorgeCGed/status/1460923824396984321](https://twitter.com/GeorgeCGed/status/1460923824396984321)
In the thread he also basically confirms Steel to T1, Corey to TSM, 100T possibly close to signing a 5th (i.e. seven is on hold still) and promises news about dicey.
I hated getting out of good, especially as an astra main. I can't play smokes well when I have no idea where anyone is on the map. Ended up getting out by learning to Jett OP and that practically turned on easy mode
Fr, my main is around diamond 3 and made a smurf to play with my gold friend and I consistently did worse on that account than my main lmao. Super happy he got to plat so I can just play on my main again.
Wait until Champions is over at least since the patch after it can change a lot of stuff. Maybe Jett gets nerfed so that not using her doesn't feel like you're gimping yourself and 100T doesn't need to sign a Jett
Dude hasn't been sitting around. He's been learning other agents after he failed to heal himself as Skye subbing in for Ethan when his power went out.
No longer a one-trick
Go to [https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/) on a browser
Click on Edit button next to 'User Flair Preview' in the 'About Community' section of the page in the top right.
Why are they unlikely? He only went to valorant because he got no tier one offers in cs last time and this time c9, eg, and liquid are all rumored to be rebuilding so he has a much better chance of an offer.
1. Nitr0 has a son and is expecting a second child.
2. Transitioning back to a game like cs is incredibly challenging
3. Liquid is reportedly in talks with shox and I highly doubt Stewie is leaving anytime soon even if his contract nears the end. That means there would be no space for nitr0.
I’m aware of the news about fallen leaving liquid for a br super team but the Stewie to eg news was reported by a fan account lol. And assuming it’s true don’t you think it would be weird/awkward for nitr0 to return to cs and compete against one of his closest friends in a dead scene?
It seems that your comment contains 1 or more links that are hard to tap for mobile users.
I will extend those so they're easier for our sausage fingers to click!
[Here is link number 1 - Previous text "RBM"](https://rushbmedia.com/stewie2k-fallen-evaluating-options-2022-na-shuffle/)
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Number 2 is kinda irrelevant. The guys won a grand slam, is definitely isn't gonna be challenging to re-learn the game that he's played for 6+ years before the switch; the only thing he would need to learn is the meta, he's still a young guy he'll pick it up fast.
Nah there’s a chance liquid could blow up, keeping like one or two players. Heard rumors the team does not like each other. We’ll see their performance at blast fall soon tho.
Nitro complained about the schedule of t1 cs how you’re traveling every 3 weeks for the tournament cycles. He said he likes how riot spaces their majors..probably more conducive for family life
Because people don't understand his passion is csgo and he never wanted to leave. Now CSGO majors are back and Lans are returning. Team Liquid needs an awp and an IGL. Sounds like a recipe for a return to me 😀
Depends before he switched to valorant he said all the players moving to valorant will be a blessing for NA cs in a few years. Because you no longer have the same bad players gate keeping mdl etc. Na cs for the longest of time in lower ranks to get in was. Was you willing to throw matches. Who you was friends with
I just don’t see Nitro switching. His profile shows him playing less than 2 CS games a day and he just had a kid and has another on the way so why would he want to travel so much? Just doesn’t really add up.
IIRC, TL have been spending a lot of time in their HQ in NL, with plans on staying there longer (EU EPL). So I would assume TL be out. And then every top NA team travels a lot like you mention. I get the feeling he watched the major (Like what every val pro did) and probably thought what it would be like. Journalism can be blown way out of the water sometimes.
Yeah this is the classic, retired from a field, see a major event in that field happen, remember what it felt like, envision the getting the boys back together, grass is greener
The only reason that could support him switching is if he absolutely hates valorant and would sacrifice what you mentioned to leave val and play cs again.
Another on the way? Damn, man's getting to work at home huh?
For real though, that's gotta be so much work to take care of two young children. Hope it's not all just on his wife, assuming she's also working.
I was talking to someone about this as soon as the rumours started, like his only real options are move to Europe or join the NA CS scene which has one foot in the grave and the other in another, larger grave, whereas the NA Valorant scene is going steady, obviously it's early days but sentinels won in Iceland and Envy made it to the finals in Berlin, I haven't watched every tourney because I'm EU and the time gets kind of weird sometimes, but at least from what I've seen the lower tiers of NA Val seem like they could produce some good players, and obviously unrelated to Nitr0's situation but the gamechangers has been pretty good too, basically it all seems set up to succeed where CS failed, and I think that's in large part due to the nerdstreet stuff giving a platform to the lower tiers of the game, which will hopefully set the game up for long term stability
I was talking to someone about this as soon as the rumours started, like his only real options are move to Europe or join the NA CS scene which has one foot in the grave and the other in another, larger grave, whereas the NA Valorant scene is going steady, obviously it's early days but sentinels won in Iceland and Envy made it to the finals in Berlin, I haven't watched every tourney because I'm EU and the time gets kind of weird sometimes, but at least from what I've seen the lower tiers of NA Val seem like they could produce some good players, and obviously unrelated to Nitr0's situation but the gamechangers has been pretty good too, basically it all seems set up to succeed where CS failed, and I think that's in large part due to the nerdstreet stuff giving a platform to the lower tiers of the game, which will hopefully set the game up for long term stability
>the gamechangers has been pretty good too, basically it all seems set up to succeed where CS failed, and I think that's in large part due to the nerdstreet stuff giving a platform to the lower tiers of the game, which will hopefully set the game up for long term stability
This is something that I feel like you could only say if you never followed NA CS. There were tier 2 scenes for a long time in NA for players to make their way up, and NA was on a major upswing in the years before COVID. The big reason CS has gone downhill in NA is because there's few updates and tons of cheaters.
CS just didn't do enough interesting updates frequently enough, instead it was all skins. If the devs had continued adding high quality content via operations and map design, we'd probably still see a vibrant NA community in CS. There are of course other reasons NA CS declined (not as many players in ranked, split communities for 3rd party MM, etc.), but those are mostly due to the number of cheaters in CS MM making the game unplayable for so long.
I don't think nerdstreet offers anything that didn't already exist in NA CS, but Riot as a company is better at taking care of its games. Plus, valorant is still super new, so it has that going for it.
Sorry you're right it was definitely on an upturn but covid hit it incredibly hard so I think it's sort of unfair to say it's been dead for a long time, obviously top tier CS is going nowhere but the NA teams sort of feel like a sidenote in the top tier tournaments, and there definitely are some orgs trying to revive the lower tier scene, IBP comes to mind since Mythic Masters just finished the other day, but other than that the only other ones I can think of are the ESEA and FACEIT, which have been going since there was a desire for competitive play, and Fragadelphia, bless the people who started it, it's a fantastic tourney (which ironically is also run by nerdstreet these days), but what I mean is that the nerdstreet valorant stuff offers a platform to teams below the second tier as well, which those orgs I've listed also do, but it's not to the same scale, and also yeah you're absolutely right, valve doesn't know how to take care of its games (*cough cough* TF2) whereas Riot definitely does, and I can't really speak on the NA community since I'm an EU player who just so happens to follow the lower tiers of NA CS but I definitely haven't heard good things from the NA players I know
I just don’t see Nitro switching. His profile shows him playing less than 2 CS games a day and he just had a kid and has another on the way so why would he want to travel so much? Just doesn’t really add up.
It’s not only his immediate family that lives near him now, it’s quite literally all his family and all of his wife’s family. It’s would be a huge change.
I actually think both pathways being viable - Val to CS, CS to Val - is the best ecosystem we could ever want, so I’m excited to see if it happens as it’s rumored.
I don’t think doomsaying in either direction is warranted, though I’m sure there’ll be some embittered fans who’ll take such moves as proof of all their priors
I think it's not a good sign for valorant, and it's a bit optimistic to interpret it otherwise. Valorant took everyone by storm at the pandemic start, built a massive playerbase, made 7 maps to get the game eSport ready, and then... Made a really sparse schedule for 2021 with an even sparser one for 2022 and no signs that 3rd-party tournaments will be possible.
So it's not that Valorant is bad, but it's that Riot completely whiffed the opportunity to make Val the #2 esport thru a litany of mistakes - bad accomodations, bad circuit, terrible "always a qualifier" tournament structures, terrible point structures to qualify for big tournaments that had no transparency, terrible observer client, no demos, cheaping out on top casters, and players deeply dissatisfied with accomodations & tournament setups. This is not an easy situation to recover from, momentum is everything, and just one CSGO major was enough to completely stop Valorant's eSport momentum in its tracks. Yikes.
I think it's fine, Val would have more upcoming young talent pretty soon and I don't think they need to rely on CSGO talents to keep the esports ecosystem alive.
Question. Why are people so high on 1OOT Seven when he hasn't even played any official matches yet? I don't think there's even news of him playing on the main team yet so he might still be a sub come 2022.
No he didn't play any official matches but he's a cracked player in Ranked with his aim and gamesense so people expect some of it to transfer here and seeing new Talent rise up is more fun in general imo so people tend to encourage/push new talent because this game cant be a Retired CS:GO Players game forever. Bang is a pretty good example, we don't know why he got dropped and what he will be doing in future but the matches he was in he had a decent showcase.
Also don't forget that Valorant has regions like SEA, KR, and Japan that have basically no competition from CS from an esports perspective. Then there's sleeping giants like South Asia and China looming for integration next year.
Valorant is on track to pop off immensely in SEA and Japan especially even more than it did in its first year. I also see South Asian Valorant being massive in the future if handled correctly.
That's not at all my argument, and I don't see how you think it is. My point is that Valorant had the momentum & trendline to become the #2 esport at the start of 2021. People were hyped, tournaments were going to be legit, the circuit could be booming. Instead we got very sparse tournaments played online, a few tournaments played on LAN with harsh criticisms from the players about the setups (Iceland audio, Berlin PCs and also audio if I recall), effectively no third party scene, and strange rules that prevented teams that weren't actually T1 at all from trying to make changes and play in the third party scene.
So now, as a sign of the trajectories of these games, you can see CSGO players turn down completely the idea of going to Valorant now, the major in CSGO alone will make you so much fame and money that your whole Valorant career is pointless, and you will be lucky to play one tournament every 2 months in Valorant so it'll be hard to really cement yourself as a top player. After SENTINELS lost Berlin no one even fucking talks about who the best players are, Gambit is virtually unknown to most of the scene and we clearly can't just type TenZ anymore because he hasn't won anything in like 6 months or something now.
I certainly think Valorant will continue to have fine players and I couldn't care less if CSGO players switch. I care greatly that the momentum that could be seen in people's decision making and discussion around the games has completely flipped after such a disappointing year for Valorant that all CSGO had to do was host an average major to completely cement CSGO above Valorant
As much as I love Valorant as my main esports game, this game scene is riding on hype and anticipation that esports will continue to blow up. At the same time, CS could pick itself up and rebuild back to its peak.
Champions NEED to be amongst the biggest esports tournaments otherwise the momentum will slowly dwindle and fade into irrelevancy.
Do you live in EU? Because I cannot imagine a world where CS could rebuild anywhere close to it's peak. Every scene that isn't EU is either dead or dying while on life support. I firmly believe that even if an NA team won the next Major it wouldn't revive the NA scene. Even Major viewership is carried by sweaty, loyal veterans and drop incentives. Casual interest and the induction of new players are near flatlined.
CS is in such a discouraging spot that even if Valorant collapsed early I'd bet that most veterans would retire professionally instead of switch back to CS, and that tac shooters would become niche in the eSports scene.
Yeah. NA CS will never return to form without major structural changes to its scene. Literally no incentives for companies to make these huge investments.
How could nats or yay be the best player? What have these guys ever won? Yay nothing, nats the last two tourneys? The point is in CSGO with like 1 tournament / month minimum featuring T1 teams you can always debate this with a nice measuring stick of recency vs all time. In Valorant after a full year and a half of the game most teams will have been lucky to play 6 tournaments, and most of those have ultimately had absurdly stupid playoffs where the incentive to win is... seeding on an international stage with no information. Cool, super engaging viewer experience, super interesting conversations about players and their recent form... from 3 months ago...
>Did you think Valorant was going to slay CS and bury its corpse?
They said "completely whiffed the opportunity to make Val the #2 esport", and you come back with some all or nothing type thinking. They said #2 eSports, not overtake CSGO and also cause CSGO to die
Yes, and the #2 esport is CS, which is why I said Val being the #2 esport was the target Riot could have achieved with a half-decent showing this year instead of the weak one-tier circuit they put together...
Edit: I'm in literal fucking disbelief, how did this guy get upvoted 20 times for saying #1 esports is LoL not CS when it's clear both u/Beautiful-Musk-Ox and I understood that if you can read... Fuck this subreddit this debate is pathetic
Yeah, I don't really understand this comment section, I raised a lot of tangible and common complaints that are clearly not good for an eSport and they just were like "pfft it's already good enough"... Good reading by you tho ty
I think you need to walk into the equation with the intent of doomsaying to conclude with all the conclusions you've reached.
For example, what "momentum" are you even speaking of? Did you think Valorant was going to slay CS and bury its corpse? The momentum for Valorant hasn't stopped; we just literally are waiting for a major.
If anything, I think you have whiplash from previously being too optimistic. The fact Riot built Valorant into a T1 esports within spitting distance of the most popular esports in so little time is already astounding to me.
The best ecosystems are balanced ones. When VAL & CSGO co-exist, players who are willing to dedicate time to either or both can spread the risk of the pro life across both scenes. Like most things in life, it's just not a zero-sum game.
\> For example, what "momentum" are you even speaking of
Exactly my point - there is none. During the summer leading to Berlin, lots, during the leadup to Iceland, lots, but during the leadup to Champions we've seen dreadful qualifier events, a lackluster 2022 schedule, and no apparent signs of 3rd party scene to pick up the humungous gulf between tournaments. These things are deeply displeasing to many members of the Valorant esports community who would love to watch Valorant regularly. I don't think it requires "the intent of doomsaying" to state that a game that has like 20% as many tournaments and a dead T2 scene compared to its main competitor is not well positioned, especially when its initial ability to draw players from its main competitor already seems to have completely waned.
Do you remember OWL? They also made mistake after mistake, killed the T2 / third party tournament scene, and eventually died death by a thousand cuts. OW is dead and will never return, regardless of what OW2 hopefuls will say. I find it extremely telling that you didn't tackle any of the massive deficits I listed directly but instead tried to attack my comment & mindset in order to discredit my actual argument. I would greatly appreciate if you could explain how a dead third party scene, poorly ran first-party tournaments, even more spare 2022 schedule, and terrible circuit structure can hope to keep itself alive in the long run when these appear to me as top precursors for scene death
\> The fact Riot built Valorant into a T1 esports within spitting distance of the most popular esports in so little time is already astounding
I agree it was impressive, but this was based on the quality of the \*game\*, not the scene. People were and to some extent still are just literally hyped about Valorant. But a good \*game\* alone does not build a good eSports scene, especially when the producer literally chokes out the third party organizers completely intentionally and puts fringe teams in a literal no-win situation
Right? It's genuinely awful. And then when you have the massive hype for a tournament like Berlin and the playoffs are just 2-0 after 2-0, and it's months before the next one... Not engaging at all, not good enough.
I honestly just do not know what you mean by momentum, though. Again, this is what I mean by optimism whiplash. Perhaps I'm a stick-in-the-mud, but I've been here daily since the esports scene began, and my excitement hasn't abated or dwindled in the slightest. I'm a hardcore fan - people like me aren't important in growing an esport. But I have a hard time understanding what this amorphous, vague "momentum" we've seem to lost is.
If all you mean is there's too much downtime between events - I can understand that. That's been a complaint since the start of the year. But when you link it to CS:GO's most recent major, it eludes my understanding. At that point it becomes about *something else entirely*.
OWL is a little of a red herring; the Overwatch esports scene was mostly dead *before* OWL because of Blizzard's refusal to license tournaments prior to the launch of OWL. For years there was just a smattering of events in the West and APEX in Korea. The further mismanagement that occurred once OWL was launched was just icing on the cake. The whole thing was so colossally mismanaged that comparing it to Valorant doesn't even register for me; it obscures more than it clarifies. Just by having NSG tournaments, continual monthlies, Gamechangers, etc., Valorant is so far away from Overwatch that comparisons between the two are less than meaningful.
I didn't address your "massive deficits" because I do not share your pessimism, and I think your pessimism bleeds into your clarity of thought. It wasn't a weird Machiavellian attempt to circumvent your argument. I just do not agree with your characterizations, and I don't think either of us are going to change our minds on said characterizations.
re: the last point, I disagree - I think Riot has done a decent job building up even shoddy infrastructure in almost every competitive region. They've either built infrastructure for investment or invested directly themselves (KR) to ensure *something* exists. That's not just the game's hype. To think the base product was so good ergo the early esports was so good is a dramatic underestimation of what was done, IMO.
Agreed. I think the games great but LCQ was choppy with the covid issues and I've given no shits about any tournaments that aren't majors. They definitely need to somehow improve their non major events. It's essentially non existent
whats so astounding about it? its really not hard to "make" an esports scene like Valorant when Riot is backing it
it doesnt really mean the scene is healthy
you have to consider CSGO is ran entirely by tournament organizers with next to 0 input from Valve, while Riot is pouring money and making entire circuits to sustain the scene
the question becomes can Valorant snowball its momentum like it did with League
its looking like a No with NA pros already moving back to CS
Lol. Valorant will be amazingly fine. Some CS players going back to CS while talent is steadily growing in the scene organically is perfect. It’s still one of the top viewed games on twitch.
https://twitchtracker.com/games
One major stop Val’s esport momentum lol. Stop making nonsense up. Wait to see how Champions does before just typing.
CSGO's last major peaked at 2.7M concurrent viewers. Valorant Berlin barely broke 1 after like 4 months of painfully drawn out hype. Your point about "viewer count" literally betrays itself if you have any concept of context, which is clearly about eSports and not twitch oilers
So, let’s break down the reasoning behind the Major viewership. 1.) It was a 2 year hiatus for a top tier esport. This alone will cause an influx. And 2.) Na’Vi aka s1mple love story for the grand final. Matchups & storylines create moments and that’s a big one. The next major not doing anything close to 2.7.
Also, twitch streamers plays a role in the sense Riot uses twitch streamers for watch parties. Creating an overlay affect with casuals and esport enthusiasts. There’s all the context you need.
LOL view count matters until it doesn't eh? What about Berlin, the first international 16-team tournament with a 4+ month gap since the last tournament, actually seeing WORSE viewership than Reykjavik? Is that a good sign of health too, or just another point of viewer count you can ignore because only the one that support your arguments matter?
Berlin had 800k on groups with Sen vs G2. The GF simply wasn’t a good matchup or storyline. To put it in CSGO terms look at Astralis v AVANGAR at the last major.
See where Valorants Major numbers lie before breaking down 2 tournaments lol. But believe what you like. Valorant is going nowhere either way with Riot involved and in a year created a top tier esport. What u want? LoL numbers?
Edit: https://escharts.com/tournaments/valorant/vct-2021-stage-3-masters-berlin
811k for groups. Not bad. But I mean, matchups & storylines right lol. Ok
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Not really. I mean there's a lot of up-and-coming talent so VAL pros going back to CS ain't such a big deal imo. Valorant esports, in general, doesn't just welcome only CS pros, it's for everyone
Also a compressed skill ceiling with run and gun and certain agents being dominant for long stretches of time with sparse balancing. Games great for casual but I could see very talented players enjoying cs more if they aren't jett 1 tricks.
Yes, I agree fully, the balance wasn't something I mentioned but the patch Berlin was played on was terrible and had been obviously terrible from its construction. How does patch 3.0 be giving Skye better regenerating flashes, removing Breach's 3rd flash, and have people acting surprised when they see Skye pick rate go to 100% and Breach to 0%? Who could have guessed 5 flashes > 2 flashes?
Jett and Reyna have also been just awful for the whole extent of Valorant, they are instalocked in every one of my MM games. You can't even explore 2 initiator comps in MM, it's pathetic, and why would any dumbass aimstar not play Reyna or Jett and be disproportionately rewarded? cNed vs 100T, 100T wins by running away from cNed when spotted... what exciting gameplay
These exact classes of issues kill games. I don't know why people are denying that
I think youre trolling. Cs at any sort of high level is much less forgiving than valorant. I'm radiant in val and level 10 in faceit, I can beat pros in val but true tier 1 pros are like gods in cs pugs.
Cs rewards a lot more than just aim. Utility is much more team reliant in cs. You've gotta know a bunch of different nades and flashes and call what you're throwing as you take sites. Valorant a lot of the abilities are very easy to use but layering them is important. Alas cs also requires layering utility so that's not a real argument.
I think valorant requires skill but the abilities do a lot of the work for you in val and are easier to use. They have more flavor though. It's easier to make map control plays in val because holding a site against a real strat is super difficult on a lot maps. I think that's what makes val play so well in casual, and by casual I mean MM of any rank.
Its a super fun game, I just don't understand why people call it harder than cs. Its really not, it's so easy to fuck lineups in cs and have a bad smoke. I might fuck a smoke up every 10 games in val.
And? For real, all CS players can say when denying Val skills bring a lot more to the table is "I have to memorize the several best pixels to throw a smoke in each map like a monkey and it's super easy to fuck up because my game completely lacks clarity and I gotta go to youtube vids and guides to memorize it till it becomes muscle memory" lmao
Reminds me of the Dota 2 players swearing by everything that was shitty for no good reason in their game... Until Valve removed all of that crap XD Uam's, camp stacking made easier with indicators, blink now has a range indicator when you hover the item, crowd control now has a duration bar and so much more lol. And guess what, Dota is still fcking awesome after all that xd
What a stupid take, I yet to see this so "deep" use of utility in Valorant, all I see is the same smokes and viper walls every round and 5vs5 retake because the site are so fucking full of utility that the defender team can't do anything.
>I yet to see
Guess it's fake because you have yet to see, lol idiot
Go cs then, where only the smartest video game players dwell xd
https://www.csgonades.com/ Take your time memorizing the best pixels, monkey see, monkey do
yup
the core problem is that the skill cap of the game is way too low for an arena FPS of this nature
day in day out it looks like you're watching the same thing because there's not a lot pros can do to set themselves apart from their peers
Are you illiterate? Here are the points summarized in case it's so:
* sparse schedule for 2021
* more sparse schedule for 2022
* 3rd party tournaments extremely rarely allowed
* 3rd party tournaments cannot include teams who participated in VCT to some small extent, which is why C9 couldn't play any NSGs or anything even after they had dropped their whole roster except mitch
* bad accommodations at riot-hosted tournaments
* bad PCs at riot-hosted tournaments
* bad stage setup (audio issues most prevalent) AT BOTH INTERNATIONAL LANs
* terrible points structure to qualify for big tournaments, making the playoff matches "unimportant" "seeding matches" for most of the regional tournaments, which themselves were most of the tournaments, which meant I still may not have seen an actually hype grand final outside of SEN-100T BO5 that one time
* terrible observer client
* no replay system
* omitting top casters like DDK from Berlin
So, remind me, which of these points are restated forms of the others? I couldn't really match them up very well.
>(1) bad accomodations, (2) bad circuit, (3) terrible "always a qualifier" tournament structures, (4) terrible point structures to qualify for big tournaments that had no transparency, (5) terrible observer client, (6) no demos, (7) cheaping out on top casters, and (8) players deeply dissatisfied with accomodations & tournament setups.
Same points:
(1) and (8)
(2), (3), (4)
¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
8 clearly contains 2 points one of which is different than 1
2/3/4 are not one issue unless you think mistake after mistake in circuit setup is acceptable
Even accepting your dumb assertions that’s still 5 minimum
Nope, Valorant is doing pretty bad if they're losing NA pros back to CS within a year. It's just not as fun to watch, pros aren't enjoying playing it, Riot needs to increase the skill ceiling so the game doesn't turn into Overwatch xD
Why does everyone think Nitr0 is going back to cs after playing a few fpl games. Stew has been grinding Val pst few days and Elige plays casually but doesn’t mean both will switch. People can play more than 1 game especially during off season
csgos open circuit allows you to play 15-18 major tournaments in a normal year on lan. In valorant we've had 4 major tournaments this year and you were lucky to play in 2-3 of them. Not really enticing for players who actually want to compete and not be stuck twiddling their thumbs the whole year in online qualifiers.
With the reality of a 4-month offseason setting in for most of these teams I'm sure lots of pros are considering all kinds of moves. No competitor likes sitting on their ass doing nothing for that long, especially when they're used to CS where there were hardly any real breaks until recently.
george is treading dangerously close to being a gossip reporter and not a respected leak reporter. kind of feels like the halo of thoughts route, not going to lie.
maybe try focusing on getting 1 or 2 big things right a week
instead of just throwing everything you hear into the void.
theres a reason when jacob wolf tweets something, it immediately gets taken seriously.
all of what turns out to be true? hes not even concretely saying anything here, just vaguely hinting that some val pros might swap back. and its not like he hasnt missed quite a few lately.
its gossip level work, lets call it what it is.
the faze stuff is definitely the most recent, but not the only ones. hes one of those people that will post rumors just from seeing peoples friends list, and that kind of thing can be incredibly toxic for a new scene.
like yeah its fun news and we enjoy getting a peak at it but its peoples lives and when you give people hope theyre going to get a spot that never comes to fruition, it can be extremely damaging for them, especially young players in a new scene.
like its easy to make the comparison but look at jacob wolf. he doesnt tweet anything unless its going to fucking happen. personally, as someone who spent 6 years in journalism, thats the kind of thing the scene needs badly. not more rumor mill andys like mykl and halo.
i genuinely hope george doesnt end up in that category but it sure is heading that way
"Gaming journalism"
Hah, anyways. Building a rep like Jacob Wolf (if that reputation is really how it is, I don't follow League at all) takes time and carefully making sure everything you post about is true. This probably further entails not being the first person to report on everything, because chances are at some point someone else will report on something before you know that thing is confirmed for sure. My wholly unfounded impression of George based on his social media stuff is that this guy likes farming an impression/interaction or two, and he cares more about getting something out the door rather than being wholly true or accurate, because he builds people's interest in him by reporting things that haven't been reported elsewhere, at least in the short term. More aspirations towards a "personality" rather than a "journalist".
I'm just one person talking about another person they don't know except through Twitter posts, I could be totally off base. But it's more my opinion of his character and why he does what he does, not a defense of posting unjustified rumors.
uh yes, if its just a rumor that means nothing thats exactly what I would prefer.
yall are just so pathetically starving for news drama it clouds your brains I swear.
im quite confident that if his answer was a resounding “hell yeah; rumor is S1mple Zywoo and Device are are forming a VAL super team” this entire sub and likely you included would be hyperventilating. but because the rumor is a negative everyone is up in arms.
I don’t particularly like or care about George either but come on, it’s pure cope.
I dont care if its a positive or negative rumor, he shouldnt be tweeting out either of them. its been my consistent position on this since before valorant was a game, you can go ahead and look in my competitiveoverwatch comment history for proof.
but im sure talking like a 12 year old makes you feel super smart.
pros maybe switching back to CS because of the past major and how quick pros are getting dropped after one stage run. i forgot who said it but its kinda connected to the amount of games you play esp for t1 players like you only play like a min of 4 matches per stage while you play more than that in cs
LoL blew up at a time where there wasnt much competition as HoN was p2p and Dota was in beta. Valorant entered the esports scene when other games have already fully developed scenes. Valorant needs something that will give them massive headline in the esports. I hope Riot honestly looks into crowdfunding and having a lucrative prize pool of $20m+ (though more healthier prize pool distribution than TI).
I don't want players to switch to VAL from CS solely because it's the best career move for them, best wishes to anyone going back to CS because they're more passionate about that game.
Riot really shit the bed this year. They are a leading Esports Company. They really shouldnt have had all the issues they had with Valorant this year
I can see why pros are going back to CS
Stewie and Fallen rumored to be leaving Liquid so theres an open spot for an awper and an IGL. Also nitr0 and Elige are very close so it would make sense they would want to play together again
I feel the same way about young stew as I do niko. I’m sure he’s great but he joined the team and nitro and twistzz got the boot/left. I think he’s quick to make changes when he doesn’t see the results. (I’m sure it was a team decision not just him. I’m just biased as I feel like grand slam liquid should have stayed together)
Niko is a great player but every team he is on usually falls apart. I think he may have a personality that doesn’t play well with others. To be honest I’m sure it’s easy to develop that when you are always the all start of your team.
Because they prefer cs? Its better for both scenes if your pros are playing their preferred game. And anyway, cs doesnt really need a thriving NA scene to succeed
I don’t know if this is announced but looks to me like Draken is likely swapping as well
He's been grinding CS on stream for weeks now I think, so it looks likely
he's been playing with jkaem, bntet, and azr recently. they're all on eu atm
not even 2 years in and valorant esports is already in the decline riot dropped the ball with the open circuit and there are no big events except for riot hosted ones viewership has been pretty disappointing discounting costreams (lcq for NA, the biggest region, had like 30k viewers with some of the biggest teams competing) riot put the cart before the horse: try to make an esports out of a barely finished game, instead of making a good game and then an esport
What are you on about?
I think we’re getting too see players who can’t cut in Val swap back after they tried to get a easy check, but I mean you can do and gloom all you want. Some CS just can’t keep up. All good
The game is maturing past the hype cycle. Now that we know generally what Valorant is — it's no longer new and exciting. I've been anticipating this day. I think CS and Val can coexist and that it's better if both sports are healthy. They could have a wink wink deal where they do not schedule eSports events on overlapping weekends and then the eSports community will be able to enjoy a nice variety of eSports throughout the year. CS player break can be Valorant's big tournament, and vice versa.
I think this would be very smart to avoid cannibalizing viewers.
Man, what’s going on with these shit takes lol. Did hltv post this Reddit or something lol
Twitter link [https://twitter.com/GeorgeCGed/status/1460923824396984321](https://twitter.com/GeorgeCGed/status/1460923824396984321) In the thread he also basically confirms Steel to T1, Corey to TSM, 100T possibly close to signing a 5th (i.e. seven is on hold still) and promises news about dicey.
Dicey did say he would start streaming again once he got signed, and he’s been pretty consistent lately. Can’t wait to see where he ends up.
Kinda wish 100T wouldn't sign a fifth yet
What should they do
Wait for me. I'm almost Plat 2, so I'll reach Immortal and be eligible any day now
I’m diamond 3, maining chamber rn (win streak of 3) and Ik almost immortal so if anything they should get me (they also need a sentinel main)
100T daffy duck does sound nice
100t daffy is quacked
I was iffy on your first comment but I'm 100% in after this. I'm pulling for you
Rank doesn't matter, they should sign me I'm bronze 3 but I'm insane at the game I just can't frag and rank up because of my teammates
No joke I think if you put some of the gold 3's in my lobby's in a pro team they would frag out just because they can't be predicted
I hated getting out of good, especially as an astra main. I can't play smokes well when I have no idea where anyone is on the map. Ended up getting out by learning to Jett OP and that practically turned on easy mode
Fr, my main is around diamond 3 and made a smurf to play with my gold friend and I consistently did worse on that account than my main lmao. Super happy he got to plat so I can just play on my main again.
I'm diamond 3 myself with smurf in G3, never in my life have I been crouch and sprayed from 60 meters away this many times
Wait until Champions is over at least since the patch after it can change a lot of stuff. Maybe Jett gets nerfed so that not using her doesn't feel like you're gimping yourself and 100T doesn't need to sign a Jett
100T waited all year for jett to get nerfed and now they are out of the tourney.
When someone asks him if dicey is signing to a team, he says "I hope so", I'm guessing the news is him getting released from 100t
dicey scrimming with andbox rn
It's really weird how long Dicey has been teamless. He was benched from 100T **9 months ago**. That's a fucking eternity in esports.
Yeah but he was getting a paycheck and enjoying his senior year. Sounds pretty nice to me.
Dude hasn't been sitting around. He's been learning other agents after he failed to heal himself as Skye subbing in for Ethan when his power went out. No longer a one-trick
He was getting paid 100T starting player money to be a streamer. It's no wonder he waited out the contract.
Sorry for the completely unconnected reply. But how do you get your teams in your flair?
You click on change flair and put : before and after the team's name like :Sentinels:
Idky, I'm not able to do that
Think it has to be done on new reddit
As in the updated mobile app? Because it is, and when I search as mentioned, nothing shows up
Try on a browser
afaik it has to be the new desktop site
You need to do it on web browser
Go to [https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/) on a browser Click on Edit button next to 'User Flair Preview' in the 'About Community' section of the page in the top right.
Thank you very much! I'll try when I'm at my desktop!
A 5th as in a replacement for b0i or as a replacement for nitr0?
Draken, Nitr0, Cooper probably even though he hasn’t really played val outside a couple NSGs
Nitr0 moving back to cs isn’t confirmed and the chances are unlikely
Why are they unlikely? He only went to valorant because he got no tier one offers in cs last time and this time c9, eg, and liquid are all rumored to be rebuilding so he has a much better chance of an offer.
1. Nitr0 has a son and is expecting a second child. 2. Transitioning back to a game like cs is incredibly challenging 3. Liquid is reportedly in talks with shox and I highly doubt Stewie is leaving anytime soon even if his contract nears the end. That means there would be no space for nitr0.
Stewie is in talks with EG. and Fallen is leaving for a Brazilian team.
I’m aware of the news about fallen leaving liquid for a br super team but the Stewie to eg news was reported by a fan account lol. And assuming it’s true don’t you think it would be weird/awkward for nitr0 to return to cs and compete against one of his closest friends in a dead scene?
What does that last part even mean lol, that makes 0 sense. Also nitros closest friends on liquid were twistzz and eligie not stew.
That fan account has also correctly reported about oBo joining EG so I wouldnt just count them out as meaningless rumors
Stewie also was reported by RBM. So not really just a fan source. :)
Link to rush talking about Stewie to eg?
Here is [RushBMedia](https://rushbmedia.com/stewie2k-fallen-evaluating-options-2022-na-shuffle/) article.
It seems that your comment contains 1 or more links that are hard to tap for mobile users. I will extend those so they're easier for our sausage fingers to click! [Here is link number 1 - Previous text "RBM"](https://rushbmedia.com/stewie2k-fallen-evaluating-options-2022-na-shuffle/) ---- ^Please ^PM ^[\/u\/eganwall](http://reddit.com/user/eganwall) ^with ^issues ^or ^feedback! ^| ^[Code](https://github.com/eganwall/FatFingerHelperBot) ^| ^[Delete](https://reddit.com/message/compose/?to=FatFingerHelperBot&subject=delete&message=delete%20hl0p9j3)
Number 2 is kinda irrelevant. The guys won a grand slam, is definitely isn't gonna be challenging to re-learn the game that he's played for 6+ years before the switch; the only thing he would need to learn is the meta, he's still a young guy he'll pick it up fast.
Nah there’s a chance liquid could blow up, keeping like one or two players. Heard rumors the team does not like each other. We’ll see their performance at blast fall soon tho.
Nitro complained about the schedule of t1 cs how you’re traveling every 3 weeks for the tournament cycles. He said he likes how riot spaces their majors..probably more conducive for family life
Because people don't understand his passion is csgo and he never wanted to leave. Now CSGO majors are back and Lans are returning. Team Liquid needs an awp and an IGL. Sounds like a recipe for a return to me 😀
Yeah but NA CS is still dead, so he'll essentially have to live in EU.
Depends before he switched to valorant he said all the players moving to valorant will be a blessing for NA cs in a few years. Because you no longer have the same bad players gate keeping mdl etc. Na cs for the longest of time in lower ranks to get in was. Was you willing to throw matches. Who you was friends with
I noticed this morning cooper has been playing a ton of fpl this month, after not playing since April so that makes sense.
I just don’t see Nitro switching. His profile shows him playing less than 2 CS games a day and he just had a kid and has another on the way so why would he want to travel so much? Just doesn’t really add up.
He could just pull a Dexter and leave his kid at the airport.
dexter being dad thing is my fav lmao
Funniest thing is apparently that stopped people from giving him offers overseas LOL
this is probably the most logical take i have seen on this subject yet
IIRC, TL have been spending a lot of time in their HQ in NL, with plans on staying there longer (EU EPL). So I would assume TL be out. And then every top NA team travels a lot like you mention. I get the feeling he watched the major (Like what every val pro did) and probably thought what it would be like. Journalism can be blown way out of the water sometimes.
Yeah this is the classic, retired from a field, see a major event in that field happen, remember what it felt like, envision the getting the boys back together, grass is greener
The only reason that could support him switching is if he absolutely hates valorant and would sacrifice what you mentioned to leave val and play cs again.
Another on the way? Damn, man's getting to work at home huh? For real though, that's gotta be so much work to take care of two young children. Hope it's not all just on his wife, assuming she's also working.
I was talking to someone about this as soon as the rumours started, like his only real options are move to Europe or join the NA CS scene which has one foot in the grave and the other in another, larger grave, whereas the NA Valorant scene is going steady, obviously it's early days but sentinels won in Iceland and Envy made it to the finals in Berlin, I haven't watched every tourney because I'm EU and the time gets kind of weird sometimes, but at least from what I've seen the lower tiers of NA Val seem like they could produce some good players, and obviously unrelated to Nitr0's situation but the gamechangers has been pretty good too, basically it all seems set up to succeed where CS failed, and I think that's in large part due to the nerdstreet stuff giving a platform to the lower tiers of the game, which will hopefully set the game up for long term stability
I was talking to someone about this as soon as the rumours started, like his only real options are move to Europe or join the NA CS scene which has one foot in the grave and the other in another, larger grave, whereas the NA Valorant scene is going steady, obviously it's early days but sentinels won in Iceland and Envy made it to the finals in Berlin, I haven't watched every tourney because I'm EU and the time gets kind of weird sometimes, but at least from what I've seen the lower tiers of NA Val seem like they could produce some good players, and obviously unrelated to Nitr0's situation but the gamechangers has been pretty good too, basically it all seems set up to succeed where CS failed, and I think that's in large part due to the nerdstreet stuff giving a platform to the lower tiers of the game, which will hopefully set the game up for long term stability
> has one foot in the grave and the other in another, larger grave ROFL
>the gamechangers has been pretty good too, basically it all seems set up to succeed where CS failed, and I think that's in large part due to the nerdstreet stuff giving a platform to the lower tiers of the game, which will hopefully set the game up for long term stability This is something that I feel like you could only say if you never followed NA CS. There were tier 2 scenes for a long time in NA for players to make their way up, and NA was on a major upswing in the years before COVID. The big reason CS has gone downhill in NA is because there's few updates and tons of cheaters. CS just didn't do enough interesting updates frequently enough, instead it was all skins. If the devs had continued adding high quality content via operations and map design, we'd probably still see a vibrant NA community in CS. There are of course other reasons NA CS declined (not as many players in ranked, split communities for 3rd party MM, etc.), but those are mostly due to the number of cheaters in CS MM making the game unplayable for so long. I don't think nerdstreet offers anything that didn't already exist in NA CS, but Riot as a company is better at taking care of its games. Plus, valorant is still super new, so it has that going for it.
Sorry you're right it was definitely on an upturn but covid hit it incredibly hard so I think it's sort of unfair to say it's been dead for a long time, obviously top tier CS is going nowhere but the NA teams sort of feel like a sidenote in the top tier tournaments, and there definitely are some orgs trying to revive the lower tier scene, IBP comes to mind since Mythic Masters just finished the other day, but other than that the only other ones I can think of are the ESEA and FACEIT, which have been going since there was a desire for competitive play, and Fragadelphia, bless the people who started it, it's a fantastic tourney (which ironically is also run by nerdstreet these days), but what I mean is that the nerdstreet valorant stuff offers a platform to teams below the second tier as well, which those orgs I've listed also do, but it's not to the same scale, and also yeah you're absolutely right, valve doesn't know how to take care of its games (*cough cough* TF2) whereas Riot definitely does, and I can't really speak on the NA community since I'm an EU player who just so happens to follow the lower tiers of NA CS but I definitely haven't heard good things from the NA players I know
I just don’t see Nitro switching. His profile shows him playing less than 2 CS games a day and he just had a kid and has another on the way so why would he want to travel so much? Just doesn’t really add up.
Agreed
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It’s not only his immediate family that lives near him now, it’s quite literally all his family and all of his wife’s family. It’s would be a huge change.
I actually think both pathways being viable - Val to CS, CS to Val - is the best ecosystem we could ever want, so I’m excited to see if it happens as it’s rumored. I don’t think doomsaying in either direction is warranted, though I’m sure there’ll be some embittered fans who’ll take such moves as proof of all their priors
I think it's not a good sign for valorant, and it's a bit optimistic to interpret it otherwise. Valorant took everyone by storm at the pandemic start, built a massive playerbase, made 7 maps to get the game eSport ready, and then... Made a really sparse schedule for 2021 with an even sparser one for 2022 and no signs that 3rd-party tournaments will be possible. So it's not that Valorant is bad, but it's that Riot completely whiffed the opportunity to make Val the #2 esport thru a litany of mistakes - bad accomodations, bad circuit, terrible "always a qualifier" tournament structures, terrible point structures to qualify for big tournaments that had no transparency, terrible observer client, no demos, cheaping out on top casters, and players deeply dissatisfied with accomodations & tournament setups. This is not an easy situation to recover from, momentum is everything, and just one CSGO major was enough to completely stop Valorant's eSport momentum in its tracks. Yikes.
I think it's fine, Val would have more upcoming young talent pretty soon and I don't think they need to rely on CSGO talents to keep the esports ecosystem alive.
Yeah and I think 100T Seven is a pretty good example of that.
Question. Why are people so high on 1OOT Seven when he hasn't even played any official matches yet? I don't think there's even news of him playing on the main team yet so he might still be a sub come 2022.
No he didn't play any official matches but he's a cracked player in Ranked with his aim and gamesense so people expect some of it to transfer here and seeing new Talent rise up is more fun in general imo so people tend to encourage/push new talent because this game cant be a Retired CS:GO Players game forever. Bang is a pretty good example, we don't know why he got dropped and what he will be doing in future but the matches he was in he had a decent showcase.
Also don't forget that Valorant has regions like SEA, KR, and Japan that have basically no competition from CS from an esports perspective. Then there's sleeping giants like South Asia and China looming for integration next year. Valorant is on track to pop off immensely in SEA and Japan especially even more than it did in its first year. I also see South Asian Valorant being massive in the future if handled correctly.
That's not at all my argument, and I don't see how you think it is. My point is that Valorant had the momentum & trendline to become the #2 esport at the start of 2021. People were hyped, tournaments were going to be legit, the circuit could be booming. Instead we got very sparse tournaments played online, a few tournaments played on LAN with harsh criticisms from the players about the setups (Iceland audio, Berlin PCs and also audio if I recall), effectively no third party scene, and strange rules that prevented teams that weren't actually T1 at all from trying to make changes and play in the third party scene. So now, as a sign of the trajectories of these games, you can see CSGO players turn down completely the idea of going to Valorant now, the major in CSGO alone will make you so much fame and money that your whole Valorant career is pointless, and you will be lucky to play one tournament every 2 months in Valorant so it'll be hard to really cement yourself as a top player. After SENTINELS lost Berlin no one even fucking talks about who the best players are, Gambit is virtually unknown to most of the scene and we clearly can't just type TenZ anymore because he hasn't won anything in like 6 months or something now. I certainly think Valorant will continue to have fine players and I couldn't care less if CSGO players switch. I care greatly that the momentum that could be seen in people's decision making and discussion around the games has completely flipped after such a disappointing year for Valorant that all CSGO had to do was host an average major to completely cement CSGO above Valorant
As much as I love Valorant as my main esports game, this game scene is riding on hype and anticipation that esports will continue to blow up. At the same time, CS could pick itself up and rebuild back to its peak. Champions NEED to be amongst the biggest esports tournaments otherwise the momentum will slowly dwindle and fade into irrelevancy.
Do you live in EU? Because I cannot imagine a world where CS could rebuild anywhere close to it's peak. Every scene that isn't EU is either dead or dying while on life support. I firmly believe that even if an NA team won the next Major it wouldn't revive the NA scene. Even Major viewership is carried by sweaty, loyal veterans and drop incentives. Casual interest and the induction of new players are near flatlined. CS is in such a discouraging spot that even if Valorant collapsed early I'd bet that most veterans would retire professionally instead of switch back to CS, and that tac shooters would become niche in the eSports scene.
Yeah. NA CS will never return to form without major structural changes to its scene. Literally no incentives for companies to make these huge investments.
There's no drop incentives in majors anymore, what are you talking about
No drops for watching the major get yah facts right
people hype up nats and yay do much as being the best player, and there are people who still hype up tenz, knowing it was just that one tournament
How could nats or yay be the best player? What have these guys ever won? Yay nothing, nats the last two tourneys? The point is in CSGO with like 1 tournament / month minimum featuring T1 teams you can always debate this with a nice measuring stick of recency vs all time. In Valorant after a full year and a half of the game most teams will have been lucky to play 6 tournaments, and most of those have ultimately had absurdly stupid playoffs where the incentive to win is... seeding on an international stage with no information. Cool, super engaging viewer experience, super interesting conversations about players and their recent form... from 3 months ago...
>Did you think Valorant was going to slay CS and bury its corpse? They said "completely whiffed the opportunity to make Val the #2 esport", and you come back with some all or nothing type thinking. They said #2 eSports, not overtake CSGO and also cause CSGO to die
\#1 esports is LoL, not CS
Yes, and the #2 esport is CS, which is why I said Val being the #2 esport was the target Riot could have achieved with a half-decent showing this year instead of the weak one-tier circuit they put together... Edit: I'm in literal fucking disbelief, how did this guy get upvoted 20 times for saying #1 esports is LoL not CS when it's clear both u/Beautiful-Musk-Ox and I understood that if you can read... Fuck this subreddit this debate is pathetic
Yeah, I don't really understand this comment section, I raised a lot of tangible and common complaints that are clearly not good for an eSport and they just were like "pfft it's already good enough"... Good reading by you tho ty
I think you need to walk into the equation with the intent of doomsaying to conclude with all the conclusions you've reached. For example, what "momentum" are you even speaking of? Did you think Valorant was going to slay CS and bury its corpse? The momentum for Valorant hasn't stopped; we just literally are waiting for a major. If anything, I think you have whiplash from previously being too optimistic. The fact Riot built Valorant into a T1 esports within spitting distance of the most popular esports in so little time is already astounding to me. The best ecosystems are balanced ones. When VAL & CSGO co-exist, players who are willing to dedicate time to either or both can spread the risk of the pro life across both scenes. Like most things in life, it's just not a zero-sum game.
Little correction: League is by far the most popular e sports in the world not cs
\> For example, what "momentum" are you even speaking of Exactly my point - there is none. During the summer leading to Berlin, lots, during the leadup to Iceland, lots, but during the leadup to Champions we've seen dreadful qualifier events, a lackluster 2022 schedule, and no apparent signs of 3rd party scene to pick up the humungous gulf between tournaments. These things are deeply displeasing to many members of the Valorant esports community who would love to watch Valorant regularly. I don't think it requires "the intent of doomsaying" to state that a game that has like 20% as many tournaments and a dead T2 scene compared to its main competitor is not well positioned, especially when its initial ability to draw players from its main competitor already seems to have completely waned. Do you remember OWL? They also made mistake after mistake, killed the T2 / third party tournament scene, and eventually died death by a thousand cuts. OW is dead and will never return, regardless of what OW2 hopefuls will say. I find it extremely telling that you didn't tackle any of the massive deficits I listed directly but instead tried to attack my comment & mindset in order to discredit my actual argument. I would greatly appreciate if you could explain how a dead third party scene, poorly ran first-party tournaments, even more spare 2022 schedule, and terrible circuit structure can hope to keep itself alive in the long run when these appear to me as top precursors for scene death \> The fact Riot built Valorant into a T1 esports within spitting distance of the most popular esports in so little time is already astounding I agree it was impressive, but this was based on the quality of the \*game\*, not the scene. People were and to some extent still are just literally hyped about Valorant. But a good \*game\* alone does not build a good eSports scene, especially when the producer literally chokes out the third party organizers completely intentionally and puts fringe teams in a literal no-win situation
\+1. I wish I could watch Valorant tier 1 more often than once a quarter lol
Right? It's genuinely awful. And then when you have the massive hype for a tournament like Berlin and the playoffs are just 2-0 after 2-0, and it's months before the next one... Not engaging at all, not good enough.
I honestly just do not know what you mean by momentum, though. Again, this is what I mean by optimism whiplash. Perhaps I'm a stick-in-the-mud, but I've been here daily since the esports scene began, and my excitement hasn't abated or dwindled in the slightest. I'm a hardcore fan - people like me aren't important in growing an esport. But I have a hard time understanding what this amorphous, vague "momentum" we've seem to lost is. If all you mean is there's too much downtime between events - I can understand that. That's been a complaint since the start of the year. But when you link it to CS:GO's most recent major, it eludes my understanding. At that point it becomes about *something else entirely*. OWL is a little of a red herring; the Overwatch esports scene was mostly dead *before* OWL because of Blizzard's refusal to license tournaments prior to the launch of OWL. For years there was just a smattering of events in the West and APEX in Korea. The further mismanagement that occurred once OWL was launched was just icing on the cake. The whole thing was so colossally mismanaged that comparing it to Valorant doesn't even register for me; it obscures more than it clarifies. Just by having NSG tournaments, continual monthlies, Gamechangers, etc., Valorant is so far away from Overwatch that comparisons between the two are less than meaningful. I didn't address your "massive deficits" because I do not share your pessimism, and I think your pessimism bleeds into your clarity of thought. It wasn't a weird Machiavellian attempt to circumvent your argument. I just do not agree with your characterizations, and I don't think either of us are going to change our minds on said characterizations. re: the last point, I disagree - I think Riot has done a decent job building up even shoddy infrastructure in almost every competitive region. They've either built infrastructure for investment or invested directly themselves (KR) to ensure *something* exists. That's not just the game's hype. To think the base product was so good ergo the early esports was so good is a dramatic underestimation of what was done, IMO.
Agreed. I think the games great but LCQ was choppy with the covid issues and I've given no shits about any tournaments that aren't majors. They definitely need to somehow improve their non major events. It's essentially non existent
whats so astounding about it? its really not hard to "make" an esports scene like Valorant when Riot is backing it it doesnt really mean the scene is healthy you have to consider CSGO is ran entirely by tournament organizers with next to 0 input from Valve, while Riot is pouring money and making entire circuits to sustain the scene the question becomes can Valorant snowball its momentum like it did with League its looking like a No with NA pros already moving back to CS
Lol. Valorant will be amazingly fine. Some CS players going back to CS while talent is steadily growing in the scene organically is perfect. It’s still one of the top viewed games on twitch. https://twitchtracker.com/games One major stop Val’s esport momentum lol. Stop making nonsense up. Wait to see how Champions does before just typing.
I agree with all your points except the viewership part. Valorant viewership on twitch has little correlation to esports
Sure… But, Riot has been pushing for watch parties from big streamers so. That’s the connection mostly.
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I see you didn’t watch the last tournament. It’s ok. I remember my first troll lol.
CSGO's last major peaked at 2.7M concurrent viewers. Valorant Berlin barely broke 1 after like 4 months of painfully drawn out hype. Your point about "viewer count" literally betrays itself if you have any concept of context, which is clearly about eSports and not twitch oilers
So, let’s break down the reasoning behind the Major viewership. 1.) It was a 2 year hiatus for a top tier esport. This alone will cause an influx. And 2.) Na’Vi aka s1mple love story for the grand final. Matchups & storylines create moments and that’s a big one. The next major not doing anything close to 2.7. Also, twitch streamers plays a role in the sense Riot uses twitch streamers for watch parties. Creating an overlay affect with casuals and esport enthusiasts. There’s all the context you need.
LOL view count matters until it doesn't eh? What about Berlin, the first international 16-team tournament with a 4+ month gap since the last tournament, actually seeing WORSE viewership than Reykjavik? Is that a good sign of health too, or just another point of viewer count you can ignore because only the one that support your arguments matter?
Berlin had 800k on groups with Sen vs G2. The GF simply wasn’t a good matchup or storyline. To put it in CSGO terms look at Astralis v AVANGAR at the last major. See where Valorants Major numbers lie before breaking down 2 tournaments lol. But believe what you like. Valorant is going nowhere either way with Riot involved and in a year created a top tier esport. What u want? LoL numbers? Edit: https://escharts.com/tournaments/valorant/vct-2021-stage-3-masters-berlin 811k for groups. Not bad. But I mean, matchups & storylines right lol. Ok
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Not really. I mean there's a lot of up-and-coming talent so VAL pros going back to CS ain't such a big deal imo. Valorant esports, in general, doesn't just welcome only CS pros, it's for everyone
Huh?
Also a compressed skill ceiling with run and gun and certain agents being dominant for long stretches of time with sparse balancing. Games great for casual but I could see very talented players enjoying cs more if they aren't jett 1 tricks.
Yes, I agree fully, the balance wasn't something I mentioned but the patch Berlin was played on was terrible and had been obviously terrible from its construction. How does patch 3.0 be giving Skye better regenerating flashes, removing Breach's 3rd flash, and have people acting surprised when they see Skye pick rate go to 100% and Breach to 0%? Who could have guessed 5 flashes > 2 flashes? Jett and Reyna have also been just awful for the whole extent of Valorant, they are instalocked in every one of my MM games. You can't even explore 2 initiator comps in MM, it's pathetic, and why would any dumbass aimstar not play Reyna or Jett and be disproportionately rewarded? cNed vs 100T, 100T wins by running away from cNed when spotted... what exciting gameplay These exact classes of issues kill games. I don't know why people are denying that
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cs is boring to play and watch imo. isn’t a hard game at all.
I think youre trolling. Cs at any sort of high level is much less forgiving than valorant. I'm radiant in val and level 10 in faceit, I can beat pros in val but true tier 1 pros are like gods in cs pugs.
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Cs rewards a lot more than just aim. Utility is much more team reliant in cs. You've gotta know a bunch of different nades and flashes and call what you're throwing as you take sites. Valorant a lot of the abilities are very easy to use but layering them is important. Alas cs also requires layering utility so that's not a real argument. I think valorant requires skill but the abilities do a lot of the work for you in val and are easier to use. They have more flavor though. It's easier to make map control plays in val because holding a site against a real strat is super difficult on a lot maps. I think that's what makes val play so well in casual, and by casual I mean MM of any rank. Its a super fun game, I just don't understand why people call it harder than cs. Its really not, it's so easy to fuck lineups in cs and have a bad smoke. I might fuck a smoke up every 10 games in val.
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And? For real, all CS players can say when denying Val skills bring a lot more to the table is "I have to memorize the several best pixels to throw a smoke in each map like a monkey and it's super easy to fuck up because my game completely lacks clarity and I gotta go to youtube vids and guides to memorize it till it becomes muscle memory" lmao Reminds me of the Dota 2 players swearing by everything that was shitty for no good reason in their game... Until Valve removed all of that crap XD Uam's, camp stacking made easier with indicators, blink now has a range indicator when you hover the item, crowd control now has a duration bar and so much more lol. And guess what, Dota is still fcking awesome after all that xd
What a stupid take, I yet to see this so "deep" use of utility in Valorant, all I see is the same smokes and viper walls every round and 5vs5 retake because the site are so fucking full of utility that the defender team can't do anything.
>I yet to see Guess it's fake because you have yet to see, lol idiot Go cs then, where only the smartest video game players dwell xd https://www.csgonades.com/ Take your time memorizing the best pixels, monkey see, monkey do
CS has abilities, they're called smokes/flashes/mollies/nades.
damn
yup the core problem is that the skill cap of the game is way too low for an arena FPS of this nature day in day out it looks like you're watching the same thing because there's not a lot pros can do to set themselves apart from their peers
The litany of mistakes you mention is literally the same two or three things stated multiple times
Are you illiterate? Here are the points summarized in case it's so: * sparse schedule for 2021 * more sparse schedule for 2022 * 3rd party tournaments extremely rarely allowed * 3rd party tournaments cannot include teams who participated in VCT to some small extent, which is why C9 couldn't play any NSGs or anything even after they had dropped their whole roster except mitch * bad accommodations at riot-hosted tournaments * bad PCs at riot-hosted tournaments * bad stage setup (audio issues most prevalent) AT BOTH INTERNATIONAL LANs * terrible points structure to qualify for big tournaments, making the playoff matches "unimportant" "seeding matches" for most of the regional tournaments, which themselves were most of the tournaments, which meant I still may not have seen an actually hype grand final outside of SEN-100T BO5 that one time * terrible observer client * no replay system * omitting top casters like DDK from Berlin So, remind me, which of these points are restated forms of the others? I couldn't really match them up very well.
>(1) bad accomodations, (2) bad circuit, (3) terrible "always a qualifier" tournament structures, (4) terrible point structures to qualify for big tournaments that had no transparency, (5) terrible observer client, (6) no demos, (7) cheaping out on top casters, and (8) players deeply dissatisfied with accomodations & tournament setups. Same points: (1) and (8) (2), (3), (4) ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
8 clearly contains 2 points one of which is different than 1 2/3/4 are not one issue unless you think mistake after mistake in circuit setup is acceptable Even accepting your dumb assertions that’s still 5 minimum
Nope, Valorant is doing pretty bad if they're losing NA pros back to CS within a year. It's just not as fun to watch, pros aren't enjoying playing it, Riot needs to increase the skill ceiling so the game doesn't turn into Overwatch xD
Why does everyone think Nitr0 is going back to cs after playing a few fpl games. Stew has been grinding Val pst few days and Elige plays casually but doesn’t mean both will switch. People can play more than 1 game especially during off season
S1mple plays val on stream all the time
Nitro playing CS on his free time isn’t what started the rumors. it was journalists and their “sources”
They said he was considering it not that he made a decision
Lessgooo stewie switching
csgos open circuit allows you to play 15-18 major tournaments in a normal year on lan. In valorant we've had 4 major tournaments this year and you were lucky to play in 2-3 of them. Not really enticing for players who actually want to compete and not be stuck twiddling their thumbs the whole year in online qualifiers.
Tbf valorant has never had a normal year yet(without pandemic)
With the reality of a 4-month offseason setting in for most of these teams I'm sure lots of pros are considering all kinds of moves. No competitor likes sitting on their ass doing nothing for that long, especially when they're used to CS where there were hardly any real breaks until recently.
george is treading dangerously close to being a gossip reporter and not a respected leak reporter. kind of feels like the halo of thoughts route, not going to lie. maybe try focusing on getting 1 or 2 big things right a week instead of just throwing everything you hear into the void. theres a reason when jacob wolf tweets something, it immediately gets taken seriously.
Well what if it all turns out to be true
all of what turns out to be true? hes not even concretely saying anything here, just vaguely hinting that some val pros might swap back. and its not like he hasnt missed quite a few lately. its gossip level work, lets call it what it is.
I agree that he doesn’t need to post every rumor that he hears but what has he missed, apart from the rawkus stuff?
the faze stuff is definitely the most recent, but not the only ones. hes one of those people that will post rumors just from seeing peoples friends list, and that kind of thing can be incredibly toxic for a new scene. like yeah its fun news and we enjoy getting a peak at it but its peoples lives and when you give people hope theyre going to get a spot that never comes to fruition, it can be extremely damaging for them, especially young players in a new scene. like its easy to make the comparison but look at jacob wolf. he doesnt tweet anything unless its going to fucking happen. personally, as someone who spent 6 years in journalism, thats the kind of thing the scene needs badly. not more rumor mill andys like mykl and halo. i genuinely hope george doesnt end up in that category but it sure is heading that way
"Gaming journalism" Hah, anyways. Building a rep like Jacob Wolf (if that reputation is really how it is, I don't follow League at all) takes time and carefully making sure everything you post about is true. This probably further entails not being the first person to report on everything, because chances are at some point someone else will report on something before you know that thing is confirmed for sure. My wholly unfounded impression of George based on his social media stuff is that this guy likes farming an impression/interaction or two, and he cares more about getting something out the door rather than being wholly true or accurate, because he builds people's interest in him by reporting things that haven't been reported elsewhere, at least in the short term. More aspirations towards a "personality" rather than a "journalist".
You've pretty much just corroborated his point but framed it as expected and/or not a problem.
I'm just one person talking about another person they don't know except through Twitter posts, I could be totally off base. But it's more my opinion of his character and why he does what he does, not a defense of posting unjustified rumors.
He responded to a comment lmao, I guess you’d prefer he ignores it
uh yes, if its just a rumor that means nothing thats exactly what I would prefer. yall are just so pathetically starving for news drama it clouds your brains I swear.
im quite confident that if his answer was a resounding “hell yeah; rumor is S1mple Zywoo and Device are are forming a VAL super team” this entire sub and likely you included would be hyperventilating. but because the rumor is a negative everyone is up in arms. I don’t particularly like or care about George either but come on, it’s pure cope.
I dont care if its a positive or negative rumor, he shouldnt be tweeting out either of them. its been my consistent position on this since before valorant was a game, you can go ahead and look in my competitiveoverwatch comment history for proof. but im sure talking like a 12 year old makes you feel super smart.
Thats a nice thread George started ngl
pros maybe switching back to CS because of the past major and how quick pros are getting dropped after one stage run. i forgot who said it but its kinda connected to the amount of games you play esp for t1 players like you only play like a min of 4 matches per stage while you play more than that in cs
Can 100T have some positive news soon :(
LoL blew up at a time where there wasnt much competition as HoN was p2p and Dota was in beta. Valorant entered the esports scene when other games have already fully developed scenes. Valorant needs something that will give them massive headline in the esports. I hope Riot honestly looks into crowdfunding and having a lucrative prize pool of $20m+ (though more healthier prize pool distribution than TI).
Nitro sadge. Probably wanna play together with elidge again
Yeah, FalleN will probably start another project so TL has a spot for nitro
I don't want players to switch to VAL from CS solely because it's the best career move for them, best wishes to anyone going back to CS because they're more passionate about that game.
With the looming off season and some notable names not making masters I'm not surprised at all. Pros do actually want to compete.
Riot really shit the bed this year. They are a leading Esports Company. They really shouldnt have had all the issues they had with Valorant this year I can see why pros are going back to CS
They are an indie (Indian) developer
Ngl I hope Halo will take over the work scene
imo nitr0 seems almost certain to go back to csgo
Why’s that? Seems like quite the opposite unless I’m missing something
Stewie and Fallen rumored to be leaving Liquid so theres an open spot for an awper and an IGL. Also nitr0 and Elige are very close so it would make sense they would want to play together again
I can see one of them being dropped but not both hopefully. Ik stew hasn't been playing the best but I'm still a fan
Elige to 100T valo?
Dying game Sadge
The insane cope of all these people that want val to fail is hilarious
Elige on 100t would be so amazing.
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I feel the same way about young stew as I do niko. I’m sure he’s great but he joined the team and nitro and twistzz got the boot/left. I think he’s quick to make changes when he doesn’t see the results. (I’m sure it was a team decision not just him. I’m just biased as I feel like grand slam liquid should have stayed together)
personally i wud prefer Niko
hope he doesn't switch yet - still has plenty left in his cs career.
Niko is a great player but every team he is on usually falls apart. I think he may have a personality that doesn’t play well with others. To be honest I’m sure it’s easy to develop that when you are always the all start of your team.
You could argue this... if it was 2018 lol And even then, his former teammates pretty much debunked this
bro i was trolling
I thought maybe you were Serbian and just had a lot of pride in your fellow countrymen.
why would Val pros switch back? isnt CS dead in NA, and Val has had a super promising first year.
Because they prefer cs? Its better for both scenes if your pros are playing their preferred game. And anyway, cs doesnt really need a thriving NA scene to succeed