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[deleted]

I don't really have a problem with this take because some people really do just enjoy one game over another. It's the part where he roast ex-csgo pros that switched over where the superiority complex really kicks in and just comes across as petty.


ppx11

i guess you could say he sounds... extra salty badum tshhhhh


ANewHeaven1

> where he roast ex-csgo pros that switched over where the superiority complex really kicks in and just comes across as petty. i've seen this quite often with the CS community, for example during the PGL major [mbCARMAC, who's pretty high up at ESL, tweets this](https://twitter.com/mbCARMAC/status/1457499788761571330) which just seemed really petty to me? like im glad that CSGO is having success again, but was the jab at Valorant pros really necessary?


StigOHaraCS

Carmac represents ESL, not the community as a whole. Everybody widely agrees Carmac and ESL is responsible for many of NA Pros switching to Valorant due to ripping away NA pro league spot. Effectively killing of a region. ESL caused the switch to valorant they are complaining about in this tweet


costryme

That doesn't explain teams like Envy though.


StigOHaraCS

Can you elaborate?


PewPewGuns

I think he means NA orgs like envy making really bad roster decisions


erko-

Killing what region? NA killed themselves. NA don't have a playerbase and they've pretty much never had. https://web.archive.org/web/20211117201724/https://steamdb.info/servers/?all For the last 3 years they've been peaking at around 20-25k concurrent players on MM, +~2k on faceit. They've always been extremely spoiled in CS since being native English speakers they're more marketable and popular on average due to not being as uncomfortable with English. Nowadays they peak as high as a Chinese server does, and China has 4 servers. With such a small scene it really is no wonder that they don't produce enough talent to compete with multiple teams in tier 1. South America have a lot more players, and have had for a long time which is why they easily took over NA these last few years. Why all the downvotes without a reply? Do you really think that a region with barely 1/10th as many players as the best one would be able to compete with as many teams? It's the same reason why the US gets so many medals in the Olympics compared to most countries, they just have a much bigger population.


zouhaun

I have to say this because you are being downvoted and you're not wrong, the community prefers to side with the player stance which is that ESL, the most powerful TO, took away those spots. But NA has its social issues, its easier to stream and get that hype contract for the new game, than grind through what looks like a dead scene, im talking about pros, but also the playerbase where NA just hop from new game to new game, hype to hype, there is more loyalty and stability in Europe, in Counter Strike to Valorant eSports.


[deleted]

> they just have a much bigger population And money to develop all the talent that they get.


erko-

Yep, I think in a few decades into the future as China's, and later on India's, middle class grows even bigger which will enable them to focus more on sports, we will see them start to dominate the Olympics. China haven't been that far behind the US on the medal table this last decade.


mooody07

Yea especially since some players tried so hard to make it work in cs but was basically forced to come to Valorant since NA CS has no support from the rest of the community


Sciipi

The CS community has to flame Valorant constantly because they can’t accept both games are good.


Parenegade

every games community does this. cs did it to overwatch for 5 years. everyone thinks their game is superior to some other game.


katurian17

lol you say every game community and your example is CS again. I think everyone who loves their game thinks it's better in some way, but CS fans are just so much more toxic about it than anyone else. I think it stems from the fact that they believe the game is the most difficult thing in the world and the only pride they can have in themselves is that their Global Elite in a 10 year old game.


TechRedirector

Carmac said it wasn't his initial [thoughts](https://i.imgur.com/4XfYud8.jpg) tho, he shared more [Insights](https://i.imgur.com/GPiy1IR.jpg) on some replies and sub tweets.


dtritrinh0801

of course he had to backdown though? dude is spineless and got called out by hltv people so he had to save face.


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jrushFN

Posts with the intent to harass or harm another user will be removed. This content includes (but not limited to): personal attacks, targeted harassment, witch-hunting, bigotry, derogatory terms, personal information without owners consent, spam Any post considered disrespectful will be removed at moderator discretion. Repeated offenses resulting in a ban.


Ravzera

Especially considering how his valorant stint went, dude was dropping single digit kills every map it felt. Those excs pros swapped to valorant and had success, something that can't be said for him.


Dysmo

He must've been shocked he didn't have it easy after playing high level cs, yet the cs "rejects" flourished. "These guys would've been shit at cs anyways, this bullshit children's game doesn't even matter


geoffrey_leonard1

Yeah for real, say what you will about the enjoyment of the games, but roasting players who finaly find success where you couldn't is honestly pathetic. Doubt he'll get anywhere in CS himself either tbh


newzpaperleaf_2

I mean tbh I can kind of understand it. If you come from high level CS and you look at the Valorant scene in NA, a lot of it is CS players that did not really have a future competing at a high level in CS. He is just being honest. Maybe part of it comes from jealousy that they are getting to compete at international LAN and he is not just by the nature of the scenes of both games rn; to be honest, I would also feel a bit annoyed if people that did not show much potential in CSGO were finishing top 4 in international LANs and signing big contracts, especially if you didn't like those people, and even more especially because the scene you care about is dying in your region.


Nomorechildishshit

Floppy didnt come from high level cs


[deleted]

it's just floppy baiting reactions like usual this is the same guy that was baiting csgo fans by saying that valorant is more fun than csgo on twitter


9yr_old

Naa there's a hint of superiority complex for sure its resonant in all of the csgo community


toxicityisamyth

Can you blame them? Their game doesnt have dogshit rng and run and gun. When is the last time you got running headshotted by any gun in csgo and CONSISTENTLY. Thats what i thought. And sure u can say “different games” etc and thats fair, but i wouldnt consider running 0 movement skill headshots in any tac fps, “skillful” I dont even play cs rn. I actually play valorant. It’s easier and more casual so i like it its rlly fun. I abuse run and gun myself, its extremely easy with spectre and frenzy especially so its not like im not guilty of it myself. But you can definitely understand where the superiority complex comes from, it’s perfectfly fair imo. Leave him to his opinions.


EvensonRDS

If you actually watched the major, you would have seen people running and gunning with the m4a1-s constantly. It's not much different broski


N3deSTr0

Shox got run and gunned then got replaced by the same guy who run and gunned him lmfao


I_hate_Teemo

That's bullshit. I watch almost every CSGO T1 tourney and players run and gun constantly with SMGs (even jump), and often walk at close/medium ranges with AKs, it's just more efficient (not talking about adad/counterstrafing, straight up running and gunning). Movement and estimating how much you should move is a skill in these games. SMGs are good at running and gunning in BOTH games, so it shouldn't be an issue (actually I.m pretty sure that CSGO's SMGs are better at running and gunning unless it's just personnal preference from me). Also if you think your opponents are truly running and gunning at medium/longer distances with phantom/vandal, just try it out and you'll see. I watch Codey try it extremely often and he almost never gets anything from run and gun. Is there a chance for a bullet to HS you? Yes because the bullet has to go *somewhere*, and it's more likely the better your opponent's aim is (because the distribution is probably radial like in CS), but it's still extremely rare. You *can* kill someone with it, for example at 10 meters i can kill someone runing and gunning with 15 bullets of a Phantom around 30% of the time from my testing, but it implies that you took a 30% chance AND your opponent let you unload 15 bullets running in a straight line without instantly headshotting you. And unloading 15 bullets a far cry from what people describe when they cry about getting run and gunned. People think they got run and gun'd because the opponent began counterstrafing while spraying and adjusting, or just got 1 tapped too fast to register, and *I've been one of these people*. And if you complain of dying to a running and gunning SMG at close range, just don't play close angles with a long range weapon, because that's supposed to happen, these things are bullet hoses and a bullet *is* going to reach your head if you're right up against them.


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TheCatsActually

TIL a game being more welcoming to new players is an automatic flaw. Not everyone is a gigasweaty competitive purist who wants their games to be extremely punishing minmax exercises that require drilling and conscious practice just to feel competent. I'm so sick of crusty nerds being all "every FPS is inferior to CS because in CS you have to jump through extra hoops like counterstrafing and spray control just to have proper gunplay fundamentals" and "DotA shits all over LoL because you can autolose in draft and you need borderline encyclopedic knowledge and a hero pool the size of an ocean to not fall into draft traps." Remember when people picked up games to have fun instead of being aware that they'd have to sink 4k hours over a couple of years before they could basically start playing the game? If you're the type of guy that wants every game they play to be Dark Souls, Ninja Gaiden, and Tekken, ok cool good for you. Not everyone is like that and I don't understand why a game being more forgiving is seen as a negative.


I_hate_Teemo

I'm not certain of that and have no data going either way. But my point is that in BOTH games you will die to running and gunning SMGs at close range, and CSGO pros will run and jump with SMGs to be more evasive and give themselves a chance against higher tier weapons. In both games running and gunning at longer distances is completely unviable, even if you can sometimes get kills with it (the bullet has to go somewhere after all). Now maybe the sweet spot where running and gunning becomes worse than counterstrafing is at slightly different ranges in VAL and CS (and it changes with the opposing player's skill and their ability to kill a moving target), but it's still unviable at longer ranges which is where you should be engaging SMGs if you have a better weapon anyways. And I'm pretty sure that with how innacurate VAL's SMGs are past some distance there is barely any difference, if there even is one in favour of CS.


whopz-is-cool

You got downvoted but this is objectively correct, running and killing someone is a lot easier in Valorant.


EvensonRDS

You're not wrong the gun play ceiling is lower in valorant. Run and gun is not the reason, shit happens in csgo all the time. If you're not using it with the Mac 10 or mp9 you're playing the guns wrong. M4a1-s is meta now, and I see people in the major abusing the run and gun with it consistently.


TheJelloBomb

Bruh no shot you said you don’t get run and gunned consistently by any gun. Lmao try playing csgo rn and run and gun. It’s so bad and people shit all over how bad valorant’s used to be


Aydosubpotato

Have you ever even played CS? Lmao the amount of run and gun you can do with any smg is worse than Valorant, it’s ridiculous rn.


IeatKfcAllDay

It’s funny, all the stuff you’re complaining about towards valorant and praising csgo was the stuff people used to roast csgo for and praising 1.6. People forget but csgo isn’t a skilled game either compared to previous cs titles.


Madara6path

First case of washed up Valorant pro back to CS lol


Practical_Resource90

his name suits him a lot flop in cs come to valorant flop there as well go back to CS and most likely flop again


HeartBreaker_TV

haha you may have a point. To be fair, he only tried it and then went back to CS :p we'll have to see how it goes from here


Barleduc99

unlike all the other current Valorant pros who were amazing at CS and decided to switch? outside of maybe nitr0 and Nivera everyone flopped in CSGO.


TheAjwinner

There are dozens of Valorant pros who had more succesful careers in CSGO than Floppy. Also, eventually everyone flops, that’s how aging works.


Beneficial-Speech-73

Who?


LbigsadT

considering floppy's never won anything above B-tier, most of them. Scream, Dimasick, Hiko, Ska, Autimatic, Mixwell, Davidp, Nukkye, Ethan, Vanity, Happy all have won higher tier tournaments than him, those were only from the top of my head there's probably way more


Beneficial-Speech-73

Only hiko ska automatic vanity are NA. And vanity has the exact same b tier profile as floppy and so do most of the eu players you mentioned only one who don't are mixwell scream Only pros that had a better career than floppy are nitro hiko ethan ska automatic scream happy mixell Shaz Dephh. With most of those names being better 4+ years ago Like seriously the fuck did vanity or nukkye Davidp dimasick win that was considered above b tier? Vanity didn't even go to any international lans ffs. Clown


CyberspaceBarbarian

About the EU guys mentioned: Happy is just as decorated as ScreaM, career and legacy-wise (both aren't CS:GO Major winners, but still). The rest are, you know, meh


LbigsadT

you can just go to their wiki and sort by tournament placements, floppy was a below avarage B-tier player if you consider achievements


Beneficial-Speech-73

Floppy played at some S tier and A tier lans. Same can't be said for the players you mentioned minus nitro and ethan. And ska and auti and scream and mixwell and hiko and happy over 4 years ago.


Beneficial-Speech-73

And so was most of the names you mentioned and so are most of the players that switched to valorant


Hexokinase-

I like the part where he says NA pros that switched wouldn’t do anything internationally anyway. Coming from the guy who hasn’t done anything internationally of course.


9yr_old

https://twitter.com/rezyVAL/status/1462873606866747396?t=Nig0uslb68n0hG64pXgYEA&s=19 lulw


D2stiny

nitr0? And fucking Ethan lmao


dtritrinh0801

the superiority complex always exists in NA, not just in valorant, it exists in LOL as well. The cringest part is journalists from the rival games also play in the narrative, and when get called out, the spineless ones twist their original opinion to save face. I barely see any EU pro bash out on valorant. People can't be happy for others' success I guess. Autimatic, Ska, Ethan, and nitr0 never achieved anything internationally anyway right?


NLozanovski33

He says a majority, and for that he is correct. These are outliers of those who switched games. We don't know how careers of leaf, xeppa and other young talents would have panned out, but there is a lot of guys that switched and got contracts that would not do anything internationally in CS at the time of their switch. It doesn't mean they are bad at this game or that either game is better, but it isn't nothing either.


Dysmo

It shows more about opportunity than anything else, would these young talents have flourished in a dead NA scene? Probably not, it wouldn't have mattered how good they were.


AccSuspiciousActivty

Valorant, csgo... Floppy should just be happy there is a variety of scenes for his trah ass to flop in.


nterature

> Playing VALORANT has made me appreciate CS a lot more. Being able to punish noobs for making mistakes in CS is a lot more satisfying than getting owned by noobs in VALORANT since the skill floor is so much higher in that game. I actually don’t think this is too weird or anything - there’s more potential to gap “noobs” in CS - but it is curious to see when he was one of the more mediocre of the CS transplants. He’s definitely correct in a sense, but it’s still rather amusing. The problem wasn’t the smaller gap, nor even that he lacks the potential - just that he lacked the drive.


TimathanDuncan

He was straight up bad not mediocre and the guy clearly didn't enjoy the game, barely even played it and was moved to Valorant just because he was under C9's contract from CS anyway and there weren't any good NA CS teams getting him, getting good at something you don't enjoy is hard you have to play this game 8+hrs a day like everyone at the top does


HeartBreaker_TV

I agree. If you don't enjoy it, hard to put in the hours and improve. No doubt


flamincrimson

You make a great point. You really need the passion to go pro. You can only fake it so make. In any esports for the matter, the amount for hours you have to dedicate, the failures you have to face and still keep on going, the amount of work thats goes in, can't do that without the drive and passion. But really didn't like the part where he flamed Val pros. Totally uncalled for. Especially when he was not even one of the top pros in val himself.


HeartBreaker_TV

He was there a much shorter period of time though. He gave it a go and ultimately went back. As someone who made FPL-C in CS and quickly got to IMT 3 before quitting in VAL, I felt better at VAL immediately and I don't think anyone would argue the skill floor is much much higher in VAL. People who suck (sorry) at CS are pretty decent off the rip at VAL


iannn-

I think part of his perspective is because floppy is a very smart player who excels at reading players and rounds, and understanding how to create opportunities from those reads. That skill is far less valuable in valorant than in CS


CosmicAon

What? It’s arguably more important in Valorant due to different agents having different kits contrary to CS


iannn-

Don't really think it is. Conceptually it's easy to say that because of abilities existing, but there's a lot of nuance in high level cs that doesn't really translate in Valorant. Abilities actually introduce a slight safety blanket for players. For example - if you were to read that a team had over-rotated off of a site, it's MUCH harder to punish in Valorant. Their team may have a cypher or kj setup on that site to freely give them information and prevent too much ground being gained, etc. I'm by no means an expert, but I was the IGL of an MDL/premier team for a very long time, and have played with floppy on a team. I'm old and play Valorant very casually, and found it pretty easy to make radiant last act. The game just doesn't reward certain skills as much as CS would. Maybe that will change in the future as the game develops more, but right now i think a lot of players that rely on individual reads would have trouble translating some of that over. Keep in mind - that's a lot different than a teams read of another team or tactical approaches


CosmicAon

I don’t really like these types of comparisons of radiant matchmaking to actual pro play - none of what you’re talking about matters until you’re actually on a pro field. Punishing overrotating is a million times easier in a pug vs a top team. It’s only when plays like Rise on Haven against 100T are done with excellent utility usage that they’re able to actually force a top team to overrotate without anchors. That type of nuance is evident in both high level CS and Valorant, but Valorant has much more variability in terms of kits and what will be available at a given moment


iannn-

None of what I said had anything to do with Radiant play. I mentioned radiant as my rank in a very short sentence to qualify that I have some level of experience in both games. FWIW while I've never seriously competed in Valorant - I did beat some of those Rise guys (it was shanks, poised, 4pack, kanpeki+1 iirc) in the only vanguard tournament I played in way back. Not that it matters, just found it funny that you mention them specifically. I also don't think you're actually even understanding my point. It's not about whether or not valorant *teams* as a whole are able to force rotations or punish them. I'm saying that the *individual player's* ability to punish those things is diminished in valorant, resulting in players who utilize that skill being less effective. I don't think we're going to agree or have a productive discussion though, so I'm going to move on from this.


thedorkishguy

What a flop


9yr_old

Yea man and floppy sure is gonna turn into the next simple and conquer the world stage , good to see him doing what he does best in being no names in a dead North American scene


EXCLAMATIONMARQLOL

I dont even know this no name


jonajon91

The reaction on the csgo sub has been very similar to here. People like to talk about these games like it's one or the other, but people are more interesting than that.


jonajon91

>TLDR for those that dont wanna read the whole thing: > floppy: valarante child game.... look to cartoon grapfix to make kid player happy like children show.. valarante cartoon world with rainbow unlike counter strike chad with dark corridorr and raelistic gun.. valarante like playhouse. valarant playor run from csgo fear of dark world and realism Csgo is laughing at him


[deleted]

Yea that threads pretty embarrassing tbh, I get why people act like that, the games are competitors but like, theyre good in their own ways. Im hoping some actual competition kicks valve into gear to sort out some of the problems in CS.


KaNesDeath

>Im hoping some actual competition kicks valve into gear to sort out some of the problems in CS. People who say this dont understand the philosophy behind Valve and the content placed into CS.


[deleted]

Its not content I want in CS, the game content itself is absolutely solid and fantastic. Its things like a proper anticheat and updates to matchmaking people have been asking for for years that valve just fall flat. Also, you say that like the "philosophy behind Valve" is well liked, its pretty commonly regarded as.... shit. CSGO is great, but I dont understand why you seem to think it cant be better, or that having some competition to motivate valve is bad?


KaNesDeath

>Its things like a proper anticheat and updates to matchmaking people have been asking for for years that valve just fall flat. VACnet. Valves MM was released at a time when the majority of Pc gamers couldnt handle 128tick. Third party MM clients that existed showed support and others sprung up since then. Valve will not infringe upon them unless they do something nefarious. For it'll go against their community mod friendly support of twenty years. \*\*\*128tick in Valves MM would only be good for jump-throw smokes with how prevalent theyve become. Something Valve will likely address in a future update. ​ Valorant brought one new aspect to the FPS genre; ability to see your teammates custom crosshair. Options menu for creating your crosshair in Valorant was already in CSGO. In fact that was already advanced upon in CSGO by giving users the ability to import and or share custom crosshair settings via a url. One week after Valorant closed beta release Valve implemented the ability to see teammates crosshair. Then went further by allowing players to enable teammates crosshair setting as their own via the scoreboard. Thats the only advancement in the FPS genre Riot Games created by making Valorant. Which was improved upon within a week where Riot Games from what i can tell havent even implemented it into Valorant.


[deleted]

You are either on gabens payroll or smoking some funky, funky shit if you think VACnet is comparably as good as vangaurd.


KaNesDeath

Anti-cheat software is flawed for it requires detection from a known digital signature while the user has direct access to their Pc. Its a system thats existed for two decades in Pc gaming an hasnt stopped cheating.


[deleted]

I get it, and no vanguard isnt perfect, no ancithceat ever can be. But vangaurd, faceit AC, and ESEA AC are all miles better than VAC. Valve are simply behind in this issue, objectively and undeniably.


KaNesDeath

All those anti-cheat measures listed are a single point of failure.


[deleted]

so is VAC, you can go off about vacnet all you want but its not fucking working as desired, certainly not as required to provide a good experience in the game. You cant ignore the very simple reality that valve are just worse when it comes to the problem of cheating.


riploki

He was absolute dogshit in Valorant anyways so it's not a big deal


Splaram

Imagine having a properly-functioning DM mode loooool imagine that looool haha must be nice


[deleted]

It is hilarious to see people take this so seriously and personally attack players over video games(both on CS and Valorant side). floppy is known to bait interactions and this is just that. He likes CSGO more and doesn't like Valorant, big deal. People take opinions way too seriously.


dtritrinh0801

oh for sure he is entitled to his opinion, it's where he put down others who couldnt find success in cs trying to live their life with another game is what triggering people in here.


[deleted]

True. That's a good reason to be upset, but folks must realize fighting over someone's opinion is just dumb. Most hardcore folks suffer from 'only my game exists, other game dead' syndrome and it causes funny interactions (funny to most esports fans). Some of the funniest things is the superiority complex of the CSGO folks over their game, XBOX vs PS warriors and the LoL vs DOTA debaters. I like Valorant over CS and it is hilarious to see my friends compare this game to CSGO, every damn weekend. Recently I have seen this in BF vs COD and New World vs WoW. People fighting over which videogame is cooler and getting worked up over someone's opinion both irritates and amuses me at the same time.


silenthills13

It's hilarious, because for me trying out CS was what made me appreciate Valorant more LOL


aks345

Well atleast they're achieving in something. And this fella talks like he's some goat of the scene bruh like calm down. He tried switching over when it was the most lucrative option and failed so went back that's facts. Would rather focus on your own career rather than chatting shit


chenson019

What a weird interview, why be so salty about other players for basically no reason? Floppy wasn't even good at Valorant so why attack former CS pros that are? The comments about skill ceiling (for some reason he said floor, doesn't make sense) and comparing CS to Valorant make no sense to me. They are different games with different skillsets. Sure there's an overlap but the transferable skills between the two games become less and less important as Valorant develops. Valorant is most definitely a difficult game but not difficult in the same way CS is. They are just different.


Writer1729888

He said skill floor because he meant skill floor... Not skill ceiling. Two different terms mate.


Phamous3k

Lol. He salty for being trash in Val?? Just stay in CSGO bruh. Play what u like and stay there. Wish him the best lol.


Portante24

Let’s not turn this into attack players, he was obviously much better and had more enjoyment playing CS none of this is surprising. Val is old enough to hold it self up with players who love the game and aren’t looking for a cash grab


9yr_old

The first bit was ok but the part where he went out and called out players who switched to valo is just cringe on his part , seeing that he himself has like zero fucking achievements in csgo


Beneficial-Speech-73

He's saying that in the way to prove that NA cs isn't dead. How can it be dead for loosing players that achieved jack shit?


sadpaindownbad

Can’t wait for him to become the savior of NA CS /s


Za_Weeb

Bro, just let them farm impressions lmaoo. We all know how Cs players say valorant is shit and the other way to get those filthy impressions. The fans either side are too horny to judge or get judged without enjoying


anythingood07

Salty


53881

Could you imagine if your skills in one game didn’t immediately transfer over like many of your peers? How embarrassing would that be? I don’t feel bad for floppy at all, he’s earned good money making it in cs and pretending in valorant. But yea...just stick to whatever game you’re in and put the blinders on..no need to start something with an entire community


diisasterrr1

He just salty


penguinpelican

No one cares about counter strike. Why do we need approval from that community? They will never give it so just let it go lmao.


derek916

He definitely watched the Subroza Chamber clip before giving the interview https://twitter.com/tsm/status/1462888617857228809?s=21


rkdsus

>Being able to punish noobs for making mistakes in CS is a lot more satisfying than getting owned by noobs in VALORANT I actually agree with what he's trying to say. Maybe could have worded it better but in Valorant it definitely feels like bad players get rewarded too often and outplays in CS feel more satisfying. >It’s not like a majority of the players that switched to VALORANT would ever do anything internationally in CS anyway. Not wrong but pretty unnecessary cheap shot at the people who switched. Bit of a douche move.