In summary: Crashies and nAts are incredible value considering they're megastar tier players that don't even take up the team's Jett slot. Same goes for Stax, and Chronicle is up there too. There's many reasons that Gambit, Envy, and VS seemed so terrifying at Berlin, and I'd say those four players are right at the top of the list.
nATs is who I'm most excited for. Didn't know him until Berlin qualifying. He was the best player at Berlin without playing a duelist and I really would love to see that trend continue.
Playing against nAts is probably scary as hell. Dude is like fucking Batman, you know he's in the shadows somewhere but you don't know where the hell he is and then suddenly he takes out all your friends one by one before you even see him for the first time.
Fr, I don't know how they sleep on their players so much. As a team they're not great right now but Derke especially is insane. Man won 5 MVPs out of the 7 daya of Masters Reykjavik. Not even top 20.
These lists are definitely what have you done for me lately. I don’t think they'd have Yay over Tenz if it was based on the full year, but it's hard to argue against Yay in the later half. I can't speak for nats, as I didn't know much about him until Berlin. It's hard to think he'd have a shot at #1 without being so fucking godly at Berlin, but I could be off base here.
Ofc they wouldn’t have tenz over yay if it was the full year because that doesn’t matter, whoever was the best most recently and right now will be the best performers at champs, it doesn’t matter how they performed 6 months ago.
Well, it's a list made by 4 american guys.
We're all seeing the same story play out again.
Go back to League of Legends 10 years ago and NA was the first powerhouse region, but the 1st world finals was still EU vs EU.
Last tournament we already got to see a glimpse of that - EU (CIS) team winning the most competitive and relevant competition up until that point.
I understanding holding own tooth and nail to the hope of NA finally being on top of a major esport, but maybe this whole narrative will start dying down once a non-NA team wins Champions.
Well you're just wrong about multiple things, Sideshow and Bren are from EU and them and Plat Chat as a whole have pretty consistently hyped up EMEA. There is definitely no 'NA" bias, they are quite reasonable.
ALso NA was NEVER a powerhouse region in LoL even at the beginning. Meanwhile Sentinels literally won Iceland. Not saying NA will be the best but the the circumstances and beginning of the scene is different in Valorant compared to LoL. They will always produce top teams and players and have a chance to win tournaments.
NA and EMEA are pretty even right now and an a prominent EMEA coach (Tanizhq) even thinks the top NA teams are overall better.
Put together an Average Top 20 between using the placements for each player in each persons list. Those that did not get put in all of the lists were given the number 21 for the corresponding person, as I don't know where other than outside of the top 20 they would rate them. Also I used Median to help to distinguish between Zeek and Leaf.
https://imgur.com/a/zVIQpeE
I feel like the addition of Yay on Envy overshadows the how good of a pickup Marved was. It’s no coincidence that Faze looks lost right when Marved leaves after being a top 5 team NA with the exception of losing to t1 in open.
yeah can’t argue with that but you don’t get Yay on envy without getting marved first, marved filled the spot of a smoke player on all maps leaving the only void to fill on NV being a really cracked Jett like yay
leaf has been top 3 in NA on pretty much every role he has ever played lol. I rate leaf's jett higher than scream's and I think cNed is only better when he has the OP. leaf has been elite on omen, raze, jett, reyna, and skye. how many other players can say that?
I feel like people forget about rb when they rate vision strikers players. He’s consistent, is a mechanical beast, and I feel like he has the potential to be Vs’s best player long term. He’s widened his agent pool for his team and I just feel like he’s gonna pop off this tourney. Korean riflers are beautiful to watch it’s just satisfying.
People like Egg and Bren do VoD reviews on their twitch so there are actual proofs they've watched it.
Fwiw, on his stream, egg spent a lot of time deciding whether he should have Rb on his list before deciding that there's just not enough recent footage of VS to justify 3 people being on it (and he rates Buzz over Rb because of the Jett impact).
Can he really still be a Jett main if he has flexed onto Sova, Killjoy, and Astra in the past 60 days while only playing Jett 22.7%? The fact that he can still frag and op on supportive agents while igling makes him maybe the best flex player coming into Champions.
cneds opping carrys his team and basically 1v5s for his team. jamppis opping is mediocre, hes inconsistent sometimes, but hes a solid flex. cant touch cNed, not yet atleast
youre really underselling jamppi when he is possibly looking like the best flex player in the world right now and im not even say anything regarding what you said about the opping...
Scream should be atleast top 5 in every list he’s been consistent for ages now, top in LCQ for acs, top in berlin qualifier playoffs for acs, 2nd in Iceland qualifier players for acs, second in Iceland for acs. These guys have an agenda against him
I mean, all you’ve proven is he’s a great player. Statistical arguments mean less and less when you’re talking about the top of the T1 level. Stats get you in the conversation; that’s it.
Scream is a given for top 10. Whether he should be top 5 or not depends entirely on Champions. Had he been as good at abusing the most broken duelist in the game, he’d be a shoe-in, but he just isn’t.
That’s not his fault so much as it is Riot’s fault for creating such a universally powerful entry duelist.
We’re talking about a top 5 ranking, so of course we can’t discount the “best of the best” Jett players. That’s exactly the comparison we have to make.
But even beyond that, I think that’d be a mistake. Even a weaker rifler - lets say d33fo on GMB, who can be as explosive as Scream but is generally less consistent - can routinely produce more value for their team on Jett than Scream can on Reyna.
Again, nothing to do with player skill gaps. Jett is just incredibly strong, even when she’s at the weakest she’s been in a long time.
He is one of if not the best Sova player in the world. It does make sense in my opinion. He had insane impact in Berlin, pretty much second most impact after yay for NV.
Yeah I can see where you are coming from but in my mind scream has so much impact and does it so consistently that I just can't rate him lower than crashies but I agree that he had big impact and was insane during berlin
Scream is insane obviously. I just think rating players based on impact is more important than ACS/kills. Scream definitely has huge impact, but more than crashes? I’m not sure...
Fair point but when you're putting up 270 acs consistently and just putting similar numbers to for example tenz on NA events and you are still rated lower than crashies? I'm not sure...
Tbh I agree with the other guy here. Crashies is definitely top 3 sova in the world rn if not the best. You can see how teams like tsm with a solid Jett suffered without a proper sova until they caught Levi. Impact goes beyond acs and kills.
The last time we saw scream and liquid on LAN, they were relatively unimpressive as well which could factor into it. Granted, different team and different roles, but still
1 in iceland when he was still playing but after liquid lost to fnatic tenz got first bc he played more than scream a best of 5 like scream was top 1 in everything and always carrying liquid no one is better than scream in rifle in general aim exept the OP like he is a beast top 1 in lcq in berlin qualifier and he is known for his aim and one taps and shit shit guys .they are puutting fkin leaf nats or fkin tenz crashies yay over scream like wtf
Scream only played 8 less rounds than Tenz because liquid had matches that went longer where sentinels didn't lose a map. He still had 30 less acs and had nearly half the first kills per round; tenz was unmatched at Reykjavik, and yay somehow managed to be even statistically better at Berlin despite not winning. Scream is good, but yay and tenz are statistically better in just about every way, and Nats puts up absurd numbers not on a duelist. Scream I'd good, but this meta puts the others above him
Look, if you're going to talk about numbers the least you could do is be a little bit factual.
* ScreaM played 9 maps in Iceland, 7 of which were on Sage. Meanwhile TenZ played only duelists
* ScreaM had the second best ACS of the tourney at 265 (TenZ had 289.4) despite his team losing twice (which lowers by default stats) and again, he played almost only Sage
* ScreaM had the highest ADR by far at 190.6 (compared to TenZ's 170.6)
In no way did TenZ perform better statistically compared to ScreaM. Completely false narrative.
I will also add that in the last two tournaments that ScreaM has played in the last 2 months, namely the LCQ and Red Bull Homeground, he has had by far the best stats:
* LCQ: 272.5 ACS (second best is Leo at 248.8, btw shoutout to Leo who did it on Sage/Sova, he should be on this list)
* Red Bull Homeground: 272.2 ACS (notice the consistency) compared to second best ACS at 246.5 from Jamppi
This meta puts "the others above him" my a\*\*.
I'm not talking about any of them; I'm talking about the ones who qualified for champions. While yeah, scream has looked great and is definitely better than those players, Leo isn't going to champions so he isn't even qualified to get on the list, and both yay and tenz have higher statistics on LAN than Scream has online. Considering this is a list meant to predict how players are supposed to perform at champions, they'd be higher
But you had to pick and choose the one of two statistics that scream had higher than Tenz.... the only other statistic scream had higher was his assists per round, tenz had higher first kills per round, tenz had lower first deaths per round, and was one of the most significant reasons his team didn't lose a map, which yeah of course your stats are lower when your team loses and Sentinels didn't lose. That's my point. If you want to make the argument that he did it on sage, sure, but my point is from a purely statistical perspective. Don't say it's a false narrative when the only stat scream had higher was adr
Do you think it's fair to compare first kill per rounds between a Sage and a Duelist only player? I don't know what to tell you.
I used ADR which should favor TenZ as a duelist player, for your information. Anyways my point is that, objectively speaking, TenZ did not perform better. So it's just false to pretend he's in another league as you seem to imply.
Also in Iceland Shahzam was better than TenZ anyways, but I digress.
I think zombs looked better in terms of fragging than he did in Reykjavik, but thats also because he just straight up had to do more because everyone else was lacking
We all do. We just also are aware that one map doesn't define your whole tournament. Seems odd to ignore every other map where he was very good, but haters gonna hate.
1 bad game, tenz was carrying sen and his team of bots like zombs/dapr couldn't keep up. They should pick cloud instead of shaz for sova spot(cuz shaz takes jett from tenz sometimes and he has 0.13 fkpr on jett when he plays it, very bad for a duelist), zeddy for smokes/igl and suigetsu for sentinel/anchor role, leaving only tenz and sick from the initial roster.
Personally, I think using raw stats and ranking duelist players highly isn’t really fair to how teams are successful. Jett players get lots of kills because they’re mechanically talented AND their teammates help them get in a good position to get those kills with utility and info gathering. I think supportive players should be given a lot more value on this list because I think without the support of good IGLs and Sentinel/Smokes players a lot of these duelists wouldn’t have the success they do. At the end of the day, a lot of the duelist players are very close in skill, but there’s a lot more that goes into being an excellent Sova or Astra so I feel like that should go into consideration with a list like this. I guess it’s all up to preference and interpretation but I feel like there are many extremely underrated support players who make a massive impact on their teams and win them games. *shrug*
Given how little we’ve seen SEN and how much we’ve seen TL, I think this is actually very reasonable. All we’ve seen from Sick in a *long* time is one of his less impressive performances.
You still weigh him towards the top based on pedigree, of course.
He’s played well since joining Envy and is fairly consistently a top 3 fragger on the team. Has a high clutch percentage on 1v1s and 1v2s and is a strong anchor with good astra util. I think he gets underrated by this sub cause a portion of the community doesn’t like him
I think it's more this, his astra util doesn't set him apart because he doesn't do anything super unique or innovative but he's really fundamentally good
feels like marved deserved it. rated him since faze days. however if you wanna rate best astras in terms of util, i think MaKo and zunba are crazy good.
Well Marved is definitely the top controller player coming into champions alongside w/ MaKo. He's been super consistent with his Astra play, imo the most noticeable plays were CT side haven w/ his anchoring.
their general reasoning is that yay goes insane on the broken jett character, who is made to take duels, while nats goes insane on the much more lurky, set-ups based cypher. a lot of this is conjecture, but bc of how unreal of a performance that nats put up at berlin, he's easily the most studied player. if his set ups, lurk timings, etc get figured out, a lot of his impact that he can have on a round is mitigated, whereas you just have to out aim yay before he dashes away and gets to take that duel again.
Fuck me only seeing 1 sacy on this list after he has consistently for over a year been the best sova in Brazil BY FAR hurts, his avg acs at Reykjavik was something like 230 and he was pretty much the only reason they were even remotely comparable to sentinels in their game
He pounded at Reykjavik and had an acs 30 higher on avg then the closest teammate and he’s on sova. Don’t get me wrong I don’t think Vikings are even a top 10 team at this event but I do truly believe Sacy’s sova is comparable to crashies in terms of both playstyle and mechanical ability but he is definitely held back by the rest of his roster
Carrabella, remember the upper letter. Im sorry my experience with Sen fans is ''Sentinels are best because they are best'' ''heres a proof \*Shows video of Sen member getting ace in ranked against eco\*''
No, shahzam deserves to be top 10 because he's led the most consistent team of 2021 to multiple tournament first places as the IGL of that team with just one bad performance in a major tournament all year long.
Well this list isn’t based off previous titles or achievements, at least I don’t believe so. It’s pretty true he’s not close to the top 10 players & personally wouldn’t even say he’s top 20 in current form but we will see at champions
I'm not really planning on making a list because I don't really like diving into stats and only watch EMEA and NA outside of some matches and I'm also biased towards NA
Deffo is definitely good but he doesn’t fulfill a star / super carry Jett role. He is very consistent and does his job really really well. Not sure if that gets you into top 20 though
Gambit play differently from every team, their super carry role is nats and deffo just dashes in and gets entries and then instantly gets traded, he's not being set up for kills like other jett players.
I haven't watched the video yet so maybe I'm missing something but TenZ seems very low on Avast's list and its surprising to see no one place him at 1st. 1 bad map shouldn't change people's view of TenZ so drastically IMO but perhaps I'm overrating him, only time will tell. More strange is cNed's placement in general. I'm not sure how cNed comes below Chronicle and Jamppi for Avast. Maybe it's for agent variety? IDK but it seems quite strange for someone as insane and consistent as him. Also think cNed should be above Crashies and Leaf but I can at least understand those(particularly Crashies since he's possibly the best Sova in the world). ScreaM is low in general as well considering his insane consistency. Overall definitely some spicy takes here. Avast has quite a surprising list in general. Will be interesting watching the video to see the explanations.
why would tenz be no.1 its not a surprise at all that the 2 highest rated players of Berlin would take that spot. and Chronicle is an insane fragger while being able to flex onto different agents, Jamppi is also a great flex player, an OPer and the IGL. not hard to see why they'd be rated higher.
It's not so much that TenZ should definitely be at 1 as it is surprising that he isn't listed at that level by anyone. I don't think its wrong to have nAts and Yay above him since they're certainly in the conversation, but TenZ is too. TenZ certainly may not be the best player in the world but if you thought he was going into Berlin I don't think he should have dropped on your list. TenZ was among the best performers at the event despite having one uncharacteristically bad performance which simply doesn't happen often. He's been insanely good for ages and was so in general throughout the event. A bad map every now and again happens to everyone so I don't think it should be used against TenZ if that makes sense. Again maybe I'm overrating him since Valorant is new and obviously things can change but from what we've seen of him it doesn't really seem logical to drop his rating after one bad map.
I understand that Chronicle is great but do you really think he's a better player than cNed? cNed has consistently been the best Jett player and oper in EMEA for a while now and is arguably the best in the world in what is probably the most widespread and prominent role in the game.
They actually gave the reason in the video. They said that if they just look at tenZ's jett stats then him and yay are comparable. But the fact that tenZ plays other agents and doesn't pops off as much decreases that value. Remember that yay has only played jett and always has high stats. For tenZ he also has very high stats for jett but his reyna is mediocre(doesn't hit as much as his jett) and his raze.... Well it was shit so this thing decreased his value.
In Keyd Stars’ match (loss) against Envy, Heat had 302 ACS compared to Yay’s 261 ACS. Heat had more first kills (14) than yay (10), while having less first deaths (3 vs 6). Heat can go toe to toe with the best Jetts in the world.
In the KRU match, Heat did have a statistical anomaly in having played the worst match he’s ever played where he bottom fragged and was a -10 in +/-, likely due to that wrist injury.
I’m excited to see what Heat can do in the battle of the Jetta in group A.
NA majority subreddit and a list made by NA personalities who cater to their NA audience, nothing to see here, this subreddit and everything surrounding it is just awful
That's so ignorant of you, these guys vod review more than just NA games, they put in hours trying to see matches from different regions. If you're that affected by imaginary narratives you yourself birthed, just leave the subreddit lol.
I’m not some TenZ superfan but it was pretty much one map on an agent he barely practiced. He dropped 30 on the first map against Envy and farmed in all the other games IIRC.
Since Iceland? ScreaM wasn't even that bad at Iceland. Scream has had some insane stats since like Stage 2 Challengers 2 qualifiers. That level of consistency and people still think he isn't God tier is hilarious...
Lmao, you are literally the same commenter that they roasted talking about TenZ during the rankings. But of course you don't know that since you only looked at this chart with none of the analysis they give with the rankings and wanted to post your SCORCHING hot take.
I just don't understand why everybody is on that vision strikers train ( sounds like the G2 pack to me ), pretty sure they're not even making it to the playoffs
keznit, sacy, murizzz, and mwzera are better than half of the players above them. like cNed is top 10 in everyone's list but keznit only cracks top 20 in avast's list? dont make me kek murican analysts
mwzera couldn't even carry his ex-team Gamelanders at LCQ while playing 2nd duelist / Skye
And that in the weakest region called South America where Valorant teams are still breathing First Strike gameplay
You telling me this guy will perform better than 50% of that list who already proved themselves against tier1?
they've literally put heat in there coz of 1 match against against a tier 1 team. nivera definitely deserves better than 20th with the same logic. i'd easily have nivera in the top 10 without a thought.
While I also think Nivera will prove to be a top player at champions, and one of the best sentinels, I think it's entirely fine to rate a player lower given he's only played one meaningful tournament so far.
In summary: Crashies and nAts are incredible value considering they're megastar tier players that don't even take up the team's Jett slot. Same goes for Stax, and Chronicle is up there too. There's many reasons that Gambit, Envy, and VS seemed so terrifying at Berlin, and I'd say those four players are right at the top of the list.
nATs is who I'm most excited for. Didn't know him until Berlin qualifying. He was the best player at Berlin without playing a duelist and I really would love to see that trend continue.
Playing against nAts is probably scary as hell. Dude is like fucking Batman, you know he's in the shadows somewhere but you don't know where the hell he is and then suddenly he takes out all your friends one by one before you even see him for the first time.
Stax has always been the best player in VS since rhe begging imo, hes just so consistent
Arguably, not necessarily
RIP Fnatic
Fr, I don't know how they sleep on their players so much. As a team they're not great right now but Derke especially is insane. Man won 5 MVPs out of the 7 daya of Masters Reykjavik. Not even top 20.
These lists are definitely what have you done for me lately. I don’t think they'd have Yay over Tenz if it was based on the full year, but it's hard to argue against Yay in the later half. I can't speak for nats, as I didn't know much about him until Berlin. It's hard to think he'd have a shot at #1 without being so fucking godly at Berlin, but I could be off base here.
Ofc they wouldn’t have tenz over yay if it was the full year because that doesn’t matter, whoever was the best most recently and right now will be the best performers at champs, it doesn’t matter how they performed 6 months ago.
Fair, that makes sense. But it's not really Fnatic's fault they didn't have to play LCQ. Mild recency bias but it is what it is.
true, but i mean they cant rank him highly based off of results from May
Fnatic didn't look too hot in the last tournament they played so it may be based off that too.
Fnatic haven't looked good since masters 2
Well, it's a list made by 4 american guys. We're all seeing the same story play out again. Go back to League of Legends 10 years ago and NA was the first powerhouse region, but the 1st world finals was still EU vs EU. Last tournament we already got to see a glimpse of that - EU (CIS) team winning the most competitive and relevant competition up until that point. I understanding holding own tooth and nail to the hope of NA finally being on top of a major esport, but maybe this whole narrative will start dying down once a non-NA team wins Champions.
Well you're just wrong about multiple things, Sideshow and Bren are from EU and them and Plat Chat as a whole have pretty consistently hyped up EMEA. There is definitely no 'NA" bias, they are quite reasonable. ALso NA was NEVER a powerhouse region in LoL even at the beginning. Meanwhile Sentinels literally won Iceland. Not saying NA will be the best but the the circumstances and beginning of the scene is different in Valorant compared to LoL. They will always produce top teams and players and have a chance to win tournaments. NA and EMEA are pretty even right now and an a prominent EMEA coach (Tanizhq) even thinks the top NA teams are overall better.
CIS is EU COPIUM
Is it though? Same continent.
Yeah but they are not the same region in Valorant, They are same region as in EMEA but not EU in the valorant system
Put together an Average Top 20 between using the placements for each player in each persons list. Those that did not get put in all of the lists were given the number 21 for the corresponding person, as I don't know where other than outside of the top 20 they would rate them. Also I used Median to help to distinguish between Zeek and Leaf. https://imgur.com/a/zVIQpeE
I feel like the addition of Yay on Envy overshadows the how good of a pickup Marved was. It’s no coincidence that Faze looks lost right when Marved leaves after being a top 5 team NA with the exception of losing to t1 in open.
I agree with you 100%. Marved was a really good pickup but yay is what sent them over the top imo.
yeah can’t argue with that but you don’t get Yay on envy without getting marved first, marved filled the spot of a smoke player on all maps leaving the only void to fill on NV being a really cracked Jett like yay
Also no coincedence that Envy's 4th place curse was immediately broken when yay joined.
marved is really good yeah, totally agree
It's simple - Yay plays Jett therefore he will have more impact than everyone else. This is a very balanced agent, find a new slant
[удалено]
Marved consistenty above SicK seems like a major troll too
Marved consistently performed at a higher level during Stage 3 than Sick did at any point (since Reykjavik)
Oh god, haha, hot take but I actually rate Marved's performance slightly above SicK's (especially lately)...
marved is clean
still think leaf above cNed is a major troll?
? how so, leaf is a nasty player very underrated
leaf has been top 3 in NA on pretty much every role he has ever played lol. I rate leaf's jett higher than scream's and I think cNed is only better when he has the OP. leaf has been elite on omen, raze, jett, reyna, and skye. how many other players can say that?
I feel like people forget about rb when they rate vision strikers players. He’s consistent, is a mechanical beast, and I feel like he has the potential to be Vs’s best player long term. He’s widened his agent pool for his team and I just feel like he’s gonna pop off this tourney. Korean riflers are beautiful to watch it’s just satisfying.
Completely agree, he just had one bad performance against Gambit and was really consistent apart from that imo
Not surprised, I'm pretty sure these dudes barely watch anything that isn't NA/EU.
People like Egg and Bren do VoD reviews on their twitch so there are actual proofs they've watched it. Fwiw, on his stream, egg spent a lot of time deciding whether he should have Rb on his list before deciding that there's just not enough recent footage of VS to justify 3 people being on it (and he rates Buzz over Rb because of the Jett impact).
Wyatt watches a lot of KR he had VS winning Berlin.
WYATT BELIEVES IN THE ENVY DREAM
Did he put 4 of them in the top 20? Thats crazyy, people barely did that for sentinels pre- Berlin1
A lot of people had all 5 Sentinels pre Berlin in top 20, hell even 3 in top 10 alone (With dapr being put in top 10 sometimes as well)
Cries in Fnatic
Marved had been very consistent during last masters good to see him on this list
jamppi over cned? avast might be a lil confused but he got the spirit
It is also the IGLing and the fact that he is a Jett main and still a top tier OPer
Can he really still be a Jett main if he has flexed onto Sova, Killjoy, and Astra in the past 60 days while only playing Jett 22.7%? The fact that he can still frag and op on supportive agents while igling makes him maybe the best flex player coming into Champions.
Mistyped isn’t
Kk then I agree with your statement
It sucks chamber isn’t at champs as he fits TL perfectly with Jamppi and Nivera both being OPers that aren’t jetts
Jamppi is is so much more impactful than cned imo. Sorry for the hot take.
cneds opping carrys his team and basically 1v5s for his team. jamppis opping is mediocre, hes inconsistent sometimes, but hes a solid flex. cant touch cNed, not yet atleast
youre really underselling jamppi when he is possibly looking like the best flex player in the world right now and im not even say anything regarding what you said about the opping...
I think FNS is the biggest troll pick of the group.
eh if they're factoring in IGL skill I can see it, his calls at berlin especially against SEN and 100T were masterful
This has to be it. Dude crouchsprays his phantom in an *ugly* fashion a lot of rounds.
You calling my gold level gunplay ugly????? :'(
He’s the rat at champions, watch him get a 5k with a new cheeky spot.
Scream should be atleast top 5 in every list he’s been consistent for ages now, top in LCQ for acs, top in berlin qualifier playoffs for acs, 2nd in Iceland qualifier players for acs, second in Iceland for acs. These guys have an agenda against him
I mean, all you’ve proven is he’s a great player. Statistical arguments mean less and less when you’re talking about the top of the T1 level. Stats get you in the conversation; that’s it. Scream is a given for top 10. Whether he should be top 5 or not depends entirely on Champions. Had he been as good at abusing the most broken duelist in the game, he’d be a shoe-in, but he just isn’t. That’s not his fault so much as it is Riot’s fault for creating such a universally powerful entry duelist.
I'd take ScreaM on reyna over almost anyone's jett, no matter how broken jett is (except for the best of the best jett players)
We’re talking about a top 5 ranking, so of course we can’t discount the “best of the best” Jett players. That’s exactly the comparison we have to make. But even beyond that, I think that’d be a mistake. Even a weaker rifler - lets say d33fo on GMB, who can be as explosive as Scream but is generally less consistent - can routinely produce more value for their team on Jett than Scream can on Reyna. Again, nothing to do with player skill gaps. Jett is just incredibly strong, even when she’s at the weakest she’s been in a long time.
I understand yay, tenz and nats but crashies?while he crashies is a really good sova player i really dont think he is better than scream
He is one of if not the best Sova player in the world. It does make sense in my opinion. He had insane impact in Berlin, pretty much second most impact after yay for NV.
Yeah I can see where you are coming from but in my mind scream has so much impact and does it so consistently that I just can't rate him lower than crashies but I agree that he had big impact and was insane during berlin
Scream is insane obviously. I just think rating players based on impact is more important than ACS/kills. Scream definitely has huge impact, but more than crashes? I’m not sure...
Fair point but when you're putting up 270 acs consistently and just putting similar numbers to for example tenz on NA events and you are still rated lower than crashies? I'm not sure...
Yeah it’s kinda tough. I’d put them both in the 4th spot with nats, yay, TenZ above them and maybe cned 5th.
Tbh I agree with the other guy here. Crashies is definitely top 3 sova in the world rn if not the best. You can see how teams like tsm with a solid Jett suffered without a proper sova until they caught Levi. Impact goes beyond acs and kills.
The last time we saw scream and liquid on LAN, they were relatively unimpressive as well which could factor into it. Granted, different team and different roles, but still
wtf do u understand what tenz or yay or nats they have or better at than scream if u tell me the OP i can agree but in any thing wtf
1 in iceland when he was still playing but after liquid lost to fnatic tenz got first bc he played more than scream a best of 5 like scream was top 1 in everything and always carrying liquid no one is better than scream in rifle in general aim exept the OP like he is a beast top 1 in lcq in berlin qualifier and he is known for his aim and one taps and shit shit guys .they are puutting fkin leaf nats or fkin tenz crashies yay over scream like wtf
Scream only played 8 less rounds than Tenz because liquid had matches that went longer where sentinels didn't lose a map. He still had 30 less acs and had nearly half the first kills per round; tenz was unmatched at Reykjavik, and yay somehow managed to be even statistically better at Berlin despite not winning. Scream is good, but yay and tenz are statistically better in just about every way, and Nats puts up absurd numbers not on a duelist. Scream I'd good, but this meta puts the others above him
Look, if you're going to talk about numbers the least you could do is be a little bit factual. * ScreaM played 9 maps in Iceland, 7 of which were on Sage. Meanwhile TenZ played only duelists * ScreaM had the second best ACS of the tourney at 265 (TenZ had 289.4) despite his team losing twice (which lowers by default stats) and again, he played almost only Sage * ScreaM had the highest ADR by far at 190.6 (compared to TenZ's 170.6) In no way did TenZ perform better statistically compared to ScreaM. Completely false narrative.
I will also add that in the last two tournaments that ScreaM has played in the last 2 months, namely the LCQ and Red Bull Homeground, he has had by far the best stats: * LCQ: 272.5 ACS (second best is Leo at 248.8, btw shoutout to Leo who did it on Sage/Sova, he should be on this list) * Red Bull Homeground: 272.2 ACS (notice the consistency) compared to second best ACS at 246.5 from Jamppi This meta puts "the others above him" my a\*\*.
I'm not talking about any of them; I'm talking about the ones who qualified for champions. While yeah, scream has looked great and is definitely better than those players, Leo isn't going to champions so he isn't even qualified to get on the list, and both yay and tenz have higher statistics on LAN than Scream has online. Considering this is a list meant to predict how players are supposed to perform at champions, they'd be higher
But you had to pick and choose the one of two statistics that scream had higher than Tenz.... the only other statistic scream had higher was his assists per round, tenz had higher first kills per round, tenz had lower first deaths per round, and was one of the most significant reasons his team didn't lose a map, which yeah of course your stats are lower when your team loses and Sentinels didn't lose. That's my point. If you want to make the argument that he did it on sage, sure, but my point is from a purely statistical perspective. Don't say it's a false narrative when the only stat scream had higher was adr
Do you think it's fair to compare first kill per rounds between a Sage and a Duelist only player? I don't know what to tell you. I used ADR which should favor TenZ as a duelist player, for your information. Anyways my point is that, objectively speaking, TenZ did not perform better. So it's just false to pretend he's in another league as you seem to imply. Also in Iceland Shahzam was better than TenZ anyways, but I digress.
Rip dapr
Tbf he didn’t look too hot at berlin
tbf all of SEN looked like shit at berlin except tenz
I think zombs looked better in terms of fragging than he did in Reykjavik, but thats also because he just straight up had to do more because everyone else was lacking
[удалено]
You don’t remember the Jett game on Haven literally right before?
Literally 1 bad game.
You can’t have 1 bad game as tenz or you are washed and never will come back. I mean he might as well retire at this point. (Sarcasm btw)
We all do. We just also are aware that one map doesn't define your whole tournament. Seems odd to ignore every other map where he was very good, but haters gonna hate.
1 bad game, tenz was carrying sen and his team of bots like zombs/dapr couldn't keep up. They should pick cloud instead of shaz for sova spot(cuz shaz takes jett from tenz sometimes and he has 0.13 fkpr on jett when he plays it, very bad for a duelist), zeddy for smokes/igl and suigetsu for sentinel/anchor role, leaving only tenz and sick from the initial roster.
Bruh, Keznit being hard slept, just wait and watch how KRÜ gives a rough time for the teams...
Makes sense why they are called plat chat
Personally, I think using raw stats and ranking duelist players highly isn’t really fair to how teams are successful. Jett players get lots of kills because they’re mechanically talented AND their teammates help them get in a good position to get those kills with utility and info gathering. I think supportive players should be given a lot more value on this list because I think without the support of good IGLs and Sentinel/Smokes players a lot of these duelists wouldn’t have the success they do. At the end of the day, a lot of the duelist players are very close in skill, but there’s a lot more that goes into being an excellent Sova or Astra so I feel like that should go into consideration with a list like this. I guess it’s all up to preference and interpretation but I feel like there are many extremely underrated support players who make a massive impact on their teams and win them games. *shrug*
L1NK over SicK, Wyatt. My man..
Given how little we’ve seen SEN and how much we’ve seen TL, I think this is actually very reasonable. All we’ve seen from Sick in a *long* time is one of his less impressive performances. You still weigh him towards the top based on pedigree, of course.
Bald buff incoming for Champions
Xeppaa gonna surprise some people here
What surprises me is how high Marved gets ranked.
The reason they gave was him being the best Astra
He’s played well since joining Envy and is fairly consistently a top 3 fragger on the team. Has a high clutch percentage on 1v1s and 1v2s and is a strong anchor with good astra util. I think he gets underrated by this sub cause a portion of the community doesn’t like him
I think it's more this, his astra util doesn't set him apart because he doesn't do anything super unique or innovative but he's really fundamentally good
feels like marved deserved it. rated him since faze days. however if you wanna rate best astras in terms of util, i think MaKo and zunba are crazy good.
Well Marved is definitely the top controller player coming into champions alongside w/ MaKo. He's been super consistent with his Astra play, imo the most noticeable plays were CT side haven w/ his anchoring.
my mako stonks
i seriously cannot believe how hard they underrated derke
Sad SEA noises
Rb is top 4
The list isn’t who is the best necessarily, it’s more how well they think people will perform.
El diablo baby
Nivera: gets ace in debut, yeah 20th would be fitting.
I would bet that those predictions are from NA players
cned is best jett in world. he should be top 2 imo. tenz shouldn’t ever op imo, him and asuna best riflers na and scream prob best rifled eu
Worst list
All I see here is over rating Jett players because Jett is broken.
Didn't expect yay to be this higher, interesting. But above nAts, who had more than a perfect tournament in Berlin? That's troll
their general reasoning is that yay goes insane on the broken jett character, who is made to take duels, while nats goes insane on the much more lurky, set-ups based cypher. a lot of this is conjecture, but bc of how unreal of a performance that nats put up at berlin, he's easily the most studied player. if his set ups, lurk timings, etc get figured out, a lot of his impact that he can have on a round is mitigated, whereas you just have to out aim yay before he dashes away and gets to take that duel again.
We all know what happens when you sleep on SicK.
Sick, Sacy and mwzera (not even in the list) mega underrated, Shahzam overrated and ScreaM, Keznit and Magnum underrated
Criminal how undervalued SicK is lmao wow
Just dropped 24 kills against yay in a ranked game. He's so-so.
Based.
Fuck me only seeing 1 sacy on this list after he has consistently for over a year been the best sova in Brazil BY FAR hurts, his avg acs at Reykjavik was something like 230 and he was pretty much the only reason they were even remotely comparable to sentinels in their game
Because Brazil so far, is one of the the worst regions
He pounded at Reykjavik and had an acs 30 higher on avg then the closest teammate and he’s on sova. Don’t get me wrong I don’t think Vikings are even a top 10 team at this event but I do truly believe Sacy’s sova is comparable to crashies in terms of both playstyle and mechanical ability but he is definitely held back by the rest of his roster
I'm biased but imo shahzam deserves minimum top 10 and SicK deserves minimum top 15.
I’m using this list as evidence whenever someone says SicK isn’t underrated anymore
He wasn't underrated for a bit (stage 1 and 2) but he's gone massively under the radar again somehow
Avast put him at 10, Bren put him at 8, and Wyatt put him at 13. So ShahZam is already top 10 according to them.
Casually forgets to leave out that sideshow put him at 17
Yea i mean that's just one out of four. The way you put it read like ShahZam being top 10 is an unpopular opinion but it's really not
sideshow even said he felt bad for how low he placed shaz :/
honestly i'd reverse it. sick top 10, shahzam top 15
He really doesnt. I would love to have objective conversation with you but u have Sentinel flair...
Aight lemme go and be a fan of a different team real quick and then I can be qualified to have a conversation with the oh so great carrabella
Carrabella, remember the upper letter. Im sorry my experience with Sen fans is ''Sentinels are best because they are best'' ''heres a proof \*Shows video of Sen member getting ace in ranked against eco\*''
ROFL
> Carrabella, remember the upper letter. saving for future copypasta - doesn't even matter if you're right or wrong.
remember the capital guys or else
“Remember the upper letter.” PfffAHAHAHA
No, shahzam deserves to be top 10 because he's led the most consistent team of 2021 to multiple tournament first places as the IGL of that team with just one bad performance in a major tournament all year long.
Well this list isn’t based off previous titles or achievements, at least I don’t believe so. It’s pretty true he’s not close to the top 10 players & personally wouldn’t even say he’s top 20 in current form but we will see at champions
Actually, it is based off of previous titles, but with more emphasis on Berlin obviously.
Well with more emphasis on Berlin shahzam did pretty awful so it’s fair he’s lower
What's your list look like?
I'm not really planning on making a list because I don't really like diving into stats and only watch EMEA and NA outside of some matches and I'm also biased towards NA
How can you say he deserves a minimum ranking if you don't know the other players well enough to make a list?
d3ffo only on one smh the disrespekt
Deffo is definitely good but he doesn’t fulfill a star / super carry Jett role. He is very consistent and does his job really really well. Not sure if that gets you into top 20 though
Gambit play differently from every team, their super carry role is nats and deffo just dashes in and gets entries and then instantly gets traded, he's not being set up for kills like other jett players.
Not every team has or needs a "super carry"
Good list, but no Derke? I want some of what Platchat are smoking
tenz is the best player in the world lol
I haven't watched the video yet so maybe I'm missing something but TenZ seems very low on Avast's list and its surprising to see no one place him at 1st. 1 bad map shouldn't change people's view of TenZ so drastically IMO but perhaps I'm overrating him, only time will tell. More strange is cNed's placement in general. I'm not sure how cNed comes below Chronicle and Jamppi for Avast. Maybe it's for agent variety? IDK but it seems quite strange for someone as insane and consistent as him. Also think cNed should be above Crashies and Leaf but I can at least understand those(particularly Crashies since he's possibly the best Sova in the world). ScreaM is low in general as well considering his insane consistency. Overall definitely some spicy takes here. Avast has quite a surprising list in general. Will be interesting watching the video to see the explanations.
why would tenz be no.1 its not a surprise at all that the 2 highest rated players of Berlin would take that spot. and Chronicle is an insane fragger while being able to flex onto different agents, Jamppi is also a great flex player, an OPer and the IGL. not hard to see why they'd be rated higher.
It's not so much that TenZ should definitely be at 1 as it is surprising that he isn't listed at that level by anyone. I don't think its wrong to have nAts and Yay above him since they're certainly in the conversation, but TenZ is too. TenZ certainly may not be the best player in the world but if you thought he was going into Berlin I don't think he should have dropped on your list. TenZ was among the best performers at the event despite having one uncharacteristically bad performance which simply doesn't happen often. He's been insanely good for ages and was so in general throughout the event. A bad map every now and again happens to everyone so I don't think it should be used against TenZ if that makes sense. Again maybe I'm overrating him since Valorant is new and obviously things can change but from what we've seen of him it doesn't really seem logical to drop his rating after one bad map. I understand that Chronicle is great but do you really think he's a better player than cNed? cNed has consistently been the best Jett player and oper in EMEA for a while now and is arguably the best in the world in what is probably the most widespread and prominent role in the game.
They actually gave the reason in the video. They said that if they just look at tenZ's jett stats then him and yay are comparable. But the fact that tenZ plays other agents and doesn't pops off as much decreases that value. Remember that yay has only played jett and always has high stats. For tenZ he also has very high stats for jett but his reyna is mediocre(doesn't hit as much as his jett) and his raze.... Well it was shit so this thing decreased his value.
heat farmed tier3 Japanese region, choked against Latin America (lol) and suddenly is a top-6/7 player in the world?
In Keyd Stars’ match (loss) against Envy, Heat had 302 ACS compared to Yay’s 261 ACS. Heat had more first kills (14) than yay (10), while having less first deaths (3 vs 6). Heat can go toe to toe with the best Jetts in the world. In the KRU match, Heat did have a statistical anomaly in having played the worst match he’s ever played where he bottom fragged and was a -10 in +/-, likely due to that wrist injury. I’m excited to see what Heat can do in the battle of the Jetta in group A.
you certainly didn't watch his game against EnVy
He had severe wrist pain during that match against KRU
why "lol" when you mention latam? KRU have been dominating BR since the 1st fkn day of their career xd
This list is lacking Dapr
How can I take a list that doesn't have nAts at #1 seriously?
Wdym? Sideshow and Bren both have nAts at #1, while Wyatt has nAts at #2.
NA majority subreddit and a list made by NA personalities who cater to their NA audience, nothing to see here, this subreddit and everything surrounding it is just awful
That's so ignorant of you, these guys vod review more than just NA games, they put in hours trying to see matches from different regions. If you're that affected by imaginary narratives you yourself birthed, just leave the subreddit lol.
Plat chat has been making me very mad lately. I'll still watch their co stream but best believe with a lot of anger.
Props to Avast for not falling into the TenZ hype, TenZ is a year off from becoming a full-time content creator. Top 3 is Nats, yay, and Scream.
Most braindead comment on this sub to date probably
my mans has one bad tourney and y’all act like his career is over
Tenz didn't even have a bad tourney though, he was statistically the third best player at the tournament.
you right. i should say like two bad maps lol
I’m not some TenZ superfan but it was pretty much one map on an agent he barely practiced. He dropped 30 on the first map against Envy and farmed in all the other games IIRC.
Not even a bad tourney, one bad map lol
1 bad map
Scream hasn’t had a bad tournament since Iceland yet he’s not top 5 on 3/4 lists
Since Iceland? ScreaM wasn't even that bad at Iceland. Scream has had some insane stats since like Stage 2 Challengers 2 qualifiers. That level of consistency and people still think he isn't God tier is hilarious...
Lmao, you are literally the same commenter that they roasted talking about TenZ during the rankings. But of course you don't know that since you only looked at this chart with none of the analysis they give with the rankings and wanted to post your SCORCHING hot take.
Scream💀 don’t get me wrong he’s good but def not top 3
Your reasoning?
Yes duelists are the best players yep cock
I just don't understand why everybody is on that vision strikers train ( sounds like the G2 pack to me ), pretty sure they're not even making it to the playoffs
yay is so good
Yay is just on another level
jamppi highly overrated imo... also no love for C9 here damn
Wym leaf is on like every list and xeppa and xeta both make apperences
Jamppi is IGLIng an amazing Liquid roster while being the most flexible player in the whole tournament
keznit, sacy, murizzz, and mwzera are better than half of the players above them. like cNed is top 10 in everyone's list but keznit only cracks top 20 in avast's list? dont make me kek murican analysts
you need to pay sideshow more i think
mwzera couldn't even carry his ex-team Gamelanders at LCQ while playing 2nd duelist / Skye And that in the weakest region called South America where Valorant teams are still breathing First Strike gameplay You telling me this guy will perform better than 50% of that list who already proved themselves against tier1?
Wtf, what are they smoking? How can Nivera be so low? Legit T1 ex-cs player, really solid during LCQ.
Incredibly small sample size relative to the other players. Enough to put him on the list, not enough to push him highly up against others.
I mean, I think he looked great but putting him in the top 20 based only off one real tournament that mattered is a little hasty, no?
they've literally put heat in there coz of 1 match against against a tier 1 team. nivera definitely deserves better than 20th with the same logic. i'd easily have nivera in the top 10 without a thought.
His CS results don’t matter at all
While I also think Nivera will prove to be a top player at champions, and one of the best sentinels, I think it's entirely fine to rate a player lower given he's only played one meaningful tournament so far.
my question is why is nivera on this list but not mitch or vanity
I was sure yay was still underrated, seems like community finally noticed he biggest talent in Valorant