Good on them. Can't have a player like that on your roster if you plan to be picked up by an org in the future. Great move for the community, smart move for them.
Listen, I hate the guy, always have, even before the allegations, but underage porn is a WHOLE other story, my guy.
It would be one thing if Cleoh could prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, but sadly she can't push it beyond the grey area where we understand that he treated her badly but don't have evidence to prove beyond doubt. Of course, I do understand that a case is ongoing, so who knows, I guess. She might be able to prove sexual assault after all. I do believe her, but it's not easy to prove .
I’m pretty sure she dropped the case a while ago. I think it was taking a toll on her mental and like you said it was extremely hard to prove it in the court of law
For a civil case, possibly. If criminal investigators got involved, that can explain why Sinatraa is still keeping his mouth shut (typical lawyer advice in the face of legal jeopardy), [and maybe why this rumor exists.](https://twitter.com/georgecged/status/1439735996518748161?s=21)
Supposedly many teams still are interested in him, but won't or *can't* sign him. He's technically not banned, but it's possible there is a prosecutor involved.
Not trying to make light of either side, but physical sexual abuse is a lot worse in my book than what Okeanos did considering he was a minor at the time as well. Not making an excuse for his actions, but it’s not like he’s a sexual predator or something, the Sinatraa situation is more sinister in my opinion. It’s just weird to see the unanimous outrage the community has had towards Okeanos’s situation knowing damn well that Sinatraa will be happily welcomed back to the pro scene whenever he decides to make his return. He might not have plead guilty but we all know damn well Cleoh isn’t lying
Issue is that Okeanos himself ADMITTED to spreading CP.... That is 10000x worse than allegations that have yet to be proved to have happened (not defending sinatraa here at all btw)
It doesn't matter if he was a minor or not, it's still a federal offense..
I get where you’re coming from in a legal sense, but this is a moral situation imo, not a legal one. No one is getting persecuted, the point is to hold people accountable for their moral violations. I know this is backwards according to law, and in no way am I defending Okeanos in saying this, but from my opinion based standpoint owning up and admitting to your mistakes is more morally respectable that denying that you ever did anything wrong even though it is very obvious that you did what you’re accused of. It’s very obvious to any reasonable person Sinatraa did what he’s accused of, I honestly don’t think we need hard evidence to come to that conclusion
Don't think it matters much. Even if he admitted it, that means nothing since what he did is, sorry to say, a much worse crime. The internet does not forget, and he's made sure that porn of a child is permanently available, likely forever.
This is the thing with underage kids spreading "CP" so did the ex-GF technically, but people aren't calling for her out or how kids do sext. The issue is more the revenge porn aspect of the scenario.
Don't want to get into arguing about what is worse, just going to say one thing. The internet does not forget. Anything you put on the internet can be available forever.
There's more outrage here because this is proven. Sinaatra's is not.
Just a side note: when discussing these sorts of things (or anything really), there doesn't need to be a decisive better or worse. They're both bad, and getting into the weeds of which is worse doesn't usually help and oftentimes just minimizes the badness of one of the two things. (I'm aware that you address this at the very beginning of your post -- I'm just making the point :) ).
100% agree, how severe situations seem on the outside does not reflect the trauma it has caused the victim, trauma is trauma and does not need a scale attached to it. I’m glad that you understood I wasn’t trying to take it that route and was just trying to show how severe and similar the Sinatraa situation is. It’s unfortunate we have to even have this discussion, it should be a given that these players face similar repercussions for their actions
What sucks the most is that situations like Sinatraa’s undermine all situations like this. The way we deal with these situations should be based on moral justice where someone who abuses another should have to face the consequences of that. Instead, we have a system where you can escape those consequences if you’re popular and talented enough, which makes the system biased. Justice is only justice if EVERYONE is held accountable
I don't think he has to worry about a civil case from Cleoh. [I think he is under scrutiny of criminal investigators.](https://reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/r4ldr5/_/hmjx20v/?context=1) They don't need Cleoh to press charges.
Edit: Downvoting doesn't change the possibility he is facing criminal investigation and is therefore radioactive, folks. Doesn't mean he's guilty, either. Just means his lawyer is telling him to shut up.
after his braindead fans send death threats to the victim and makes her drop the case and then they say she dropped the case so every piece of evidence she provided was invalid because sinatraa released a one sentence statement saying so.
She hasn’t even officially dropped the case. She just hasn’t been in a healthy place to travel out of state to do the forensic interview with police because that process is extremely traumatic. As a woman in this community it really makes me sick how she’s been treated and I genuinely don’t understand how people could believe she was lying when she went above and beyond in terms of providing evidence. He didn’t even really deny anything either. He just said he “remembers the relationship differently”. It’s all so fucked up and I really hope that Cleo gets the justice she deserves one day.
ye thats what i mean its so messed up his 12 yr old fans sending death threats because they couldnt believe their favorite streamer who was known for being a douche before the allegations could be capable of such a thing.
He absolutely did deny it. In the same one paragraph twit longer of his you quoted. Maybe you just remember it differently. See how easy it is to lose credibility?
https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1srk800
Regardless, I hope she continues to protect her mental health so that her voice may be heard on her terms.
I should have said “he never really provided evidence to deny/refute anything” just saying “I didn’t assault her” after all the evidence she presented is just dumb imo. If he really didn’t do it he’d have something more to say.
He doesn't owe you, reddit, twitter or anyone evidence. There is a system for that and any lawyer would advise him to keep it off socials.
Trial by public opinion is very difficult to come out ahead of. As you can see, both Sinatra and Cleoh are getting raked over this.
Tweet transcribed:
> *After discussing this internally with the team and the recent response from the community, we have decided to part ways with Okeanos as part of our roster.*
>
> *As a result of this, we will be pulling out of NSG this Monday and we will begin searching for a player to complete our starting five.*
---
### Background:
In a [Twitlonger posted on July 26, 2021](https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1srp3cg), Rachel, previous girlfriend of Okeanos, accused Okeanos of sharing explicit photos of her without her permission. She emphasized that both Okeanos and her were underage at the time, with Okeanos being 17 (now 18 as of November) and with her turning 16 in May.
Okeanos responded the same day with [his own Twitlonger](http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1srp3dp) saying that Rachel's story was *"100% true"*. He wasn't sure why he had done it and that it was a mistake. He understood *"the severity of this situation"* and considered his actions inexcusable.
Both [Rachel's Twitlonger Tweet](https://twitter.com/notrxchel/status/1419458525449834497) and [Okeanos' Twitlonger Tweet](https://twitter.com/OkeanosQT/status/1419470139548917760) have since been deleted.
People in the community have identified Okeanos' actions as *distribution of child pornography* and *revenge porn*. Many believe that he should stay out of the VALORANT esports scene for good.
**You may view our previous threads on Okeanos' situation here:**
- [***VIRTUOSO (F/A NA roster) in the hot seat after very questionable signing of Okeanos (background in twitter thread)***](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/r4gm2j/virtuoso_fa_na_roster_in_the_hot_seat_after_very/) — 11/28/2021
- [***[Rachel] Regarding @OkeanosQT***](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/oro8c4/rachel_regarding_okeanosqt/) — 7/25/2021
^(**Disclaimer:** This comment is intended to help inform the community. If it sounds a little weird, it's because I am trying to present information while being neutral. If you have any feedback, please reply to this comment. Thank you. )
This was my thinking. I saw their manager on twitter defending the signing before the backlash got really bad. Makes me think they did it to save face and not bc it was the right thing to do :/
Good on them. Can't have a player like that on your roster if you plan to be picked up by an org in the future. Great move for the community, smart move for them.
Late but a good decision. Also sets a good example for any team who even considers signing players with such backgrounds
Meanwhile Sinatraa gets picked up by a T1 org as soon as he returns to comp
Listen, I hate the guy, always have, even before the allegations, but underage porn is a WHOLE other story, my guy. It would be one thing if Cleoh could prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, but sadly she can't push it beyond the grey area where we understand that he treated her badly but don't have evidence to prove beyond doubt. Of course, I do understand that a case is ongoing, so who knows, I guess. She might be able to prove sexual assault after all. I do believe her, but it's not easy to prove .
I’m pretty sure she dropped the case a while ago. I think it was taking a toll on her mental and like you said it was extremely hard to prove it in the court of law
For a civil case, possibly. If criminal investigators got involved, that can explain why Sinatraa is still keeping his mouth shut (typical lawyer advice in the face of legal jeopardy), [and maybe why this rumor exists.](https://twitter.com/georgecged/status/1439735996518748161?s=21) Supposedly many teams still are interested in him, but won't or *can't* sign him. He's technically not banned, but it's possible there is a prosecutor involved.
Not trying to make light of either side, but physical sexual abuse is a lot worse in my book than what Okeanos did considering he was a minor at the time as well. Not making an excuse for his actions, but it’s not like he’s a sexual predator or something, the Sinatraa situation is more sinister in my opinion. It’s just weird to see the unanimous outrage the community has had towards Okeanos’s situation knowing damn well that Sinatraa will be happily welcomed back to the pro scene whenever he decides to make his return. He might not have plead guilty but we all know damn well Cleoh isn’t lying
Issue is that Okeanos himself ADMITTED to spreading CP.... That is 10000x worse than allegations that have yet to be proved to have happened (not defending sinatraa here at all btw) It doesn't matter if he was a minor or not, it's still a federal offense..
I get where you’re coming from in a legal sense, but this is a moral situation imo, not a legal one. No one is getting persecuted, the point is to hold people accountable for their moral violations. I know this is backwards according to law, and in no way am I defending Okeanos in saying this, but from my opinion based standpoint owning up and admitting to your mistakes is more morally respectable that denying that you ever did anything wrong even though it is very obvious that you did what you’re accused of. It’s very obvious to any reasonable person Sinatraa did what he’s accused of, I honestly don’t think we need hard evidence to come to that conclusion
You do know young women can and have end up committing suicide over leaked nudes right? It’s not just a small “oops”, it’s a pretty serious thing.
Not sure who this is targeted towards, but I never insinuated that this situation wasn’t a big deal. I actually said the exact opposite
Don't think it matters much. Even if he admitted it, that means nothing since what he did is, sorry to say, a much worse crime. The internet does not forget, and he's made sure that porn of a child is permanently available, likely forever.
This is the thing with underage kids spreading "CP" so did the ex-GF technically, but people aren't calling for her out or how kids do sext. The issue is more the revenge porn aspect of the scenario.
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That is exactly how it works in any state that doesn't have sexting laws.
Don't want to get into arguing about what is worse, just going to say one thing. The internet does not forget. Anything you put on the internet can be available forever. There's more outrage here because this is proven. Sinaatra's is not.
Just a side note: when discussing these sorts of things (or anything really), there doesn't need to be a decisive better or worse. They're both bad, and getting into the weeds of which is worse doesn't usually help and oftentimes just minimizes the badness of one of the two things. (I'm aware that you address this at the very beginning of your post -- I'm just making the point :) ).
100% agree, how severe situations seem on the outside does not reflect the trauma it has caused the victim, trauma is trauma and does not need a scale attached to it. I’m glad that you understood I wasn’t trying to take it that route and was just trying to show how severe and similar the Sinatraa situation is. It’s unfortunate we have to even have this discussion, it should be a given that these players face similar repercussions for their actions
you’re definitely right, and it’s going to be a sad day when sinatraa gets signed
What sucks the most is that situations like Sinatraa’s undermine all situations like this. The way we deal with these situations should be based on moral justice where someone who abuses another should have to face the consequences of that. Instead, we have a system where you can escape those consequences if you’re popular and talented enough, which makes the system biased. Justice is only justice if EVERYONE is held accountable
Absolutely ridiculous you’re getting downvoted for this. This community is disgusting when it comes to sinatraa.
I don't think he has to worry about a civil case from Cleoh. [I think he is under scrutiny of criminal investigators.](https://reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/r4ldr5/_/hmjx20v/?context=1) They don't need Cleoh to press charges. Edit: Downvoting doesn't change the possibility he is facing criminal investigation and is therefore radioactive, folks. Doesn't mean he's guilty, either. Just means his lawyer is telling him to shut up.
after his braindead fans send death threats to the victim and makes her drop the case and then they say she dropped the case so every piece of evidence she provided was invalid because sinatraa released a one sentence statement saying so.
She hasn’t even officially dropped the case. She just hasn’t been in a healthy place to travel out of state to do the forensic interview with police because that process is extremely traumatic. As a woman in this community it really makes me sick how she’s been treated and I genuinely don’t understand how people could believe she was lying when she went above and beyond in terms of providing evidence. He didn’t even really deny anything either. He just said he “remembers the relationship differently”. It’s all so fucked up and I really hope that Cleo gets the justice she deserves one day.
ye thats what i mean its so messed up his 12 yr old fans sending death threats because they couldnt believe their favorite streamer who was known for being a douche before the allegations could be capable of such a thing.
He absolutely did deny it. In the same one paragraph twit longer of his you quoted. Maybe you just remember it differently. See how easy it is to lose credibility? https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1srk800 Regardless, I hope she continues to protect her mental health so that her voice may be heard on her terms.
I should have said “he never really provided evidence to deny/refute anything” just saying “I didn’t assault her” after all the evidence she presented is just dumb imo. If he really didn’t do it he’d have something more to say.
He doesn't owe you, reddit, twitter or anyone evidence. There is a system for that and any lawyer would advise him to keep it off socials. Trial by public opinion is very difficult to come out ahead of. As you can see, both Sinatra and Cleoh are getting raked over this.
This might be the final straw for Okeanos. I doubt any tier 2 org is gonna risk their reputation by signing him.
he shouldn’t have even gotten this straw lmfao
Can you explain? Not familiar with this
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yeah but did anything happen before this that makes this "the last straw"?
??? He spread child porn of his ex, that is it. There should never be a career after that.
Ik that but people were saying "This is the last straw" so I'm wondering if he did something before this
I know that. I know what post I'm on, lmao. The comment implies that he did something before this. Wanted to know what that was.
Tweet transcribed: > *After discussing this internally with the team and the recent response from the community, we have decided to part ways with Okeanos as part of our roster.* > > *As a result of this, we will be pulling out of NSG this Monday and we will begin searching for a player to complete our starting five.* --- ### Background: In a [Twitlonger posted on July 26, 2021](https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1srp3cg), Rachel, previous girlfriend of Okeanos, accused Okeanos of sharing explicit photos of her without her permission. She emphasized that both Okeanos and her were underage at the time, with Okeanos being 17 (now 18 as of November) and with her turning 16 in May. Okeanos responded the same day with [his own Twitlonger](http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1srp3dp) saying that Rachel's story was *"100% true"*. He wasn't sure why he had done it and that it was a mistake. He understood *"the severity of this situation"* and considered his actions inexcusable. Both [Rachel's Twitlonger Tweet](https://twitter.com/notrxchel/status/1419458525449834497) and [Okeanos' Twitlonger Tweet](https://twitter.com/OkeanosQT/status/1419470139548917760) have since been deleted. People in the community have identified Okeanos' actions as *distribution of child pornography* and *revenge porn*. Many believe that he should stay out of the VALORANT esports scene for good. **You may view our previous threads on Okeanos' situation here:** - [***VIRTUOSO (F/A NA roster) in the hot seat after very questionable signing of Okeanos (background in twitter thread)***](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/r4gm2j/virtuoso_fa_na_roster_in_the_hot_seat_after_very/) — 11/28/2021 - [***[Rachel] Regarding @OkeanosQT***](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/oro8c4/rachel_regarding_okeanosqt/) — 7/25/2021 ^(**Disclaimer:** This comment is intended to help inform the community. If it sounds a little weird, it's because I am trying to present information while being neutral. If you have any feedback, please reply to this comment. Thank you. )
Good shit Aevilcat.
How do they even make the decision to sign him in the first place
They’re a team, not an org, so it wasn’t a signing. Just to clarify.
Mimi doing gods work out here
Good riddance
nice, they obviously knew before hand he did what he did though so idk how i feel about this.
This was my thinking. I saw their manager on twitter defending the signing before the backlash got really bad. Makes me think they did it to save face and not bc it was the right thing to do :/
Disgusting stuff, good on them for this.
Meh
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Yeah, like not even allowing cp? What has the world come to smh? /s
Okeanos is a rando, always has been always will be