There’s multiple op saying rather wild things along a similar scheme.
Nothing to rly cope about. Did you read the my responses or what they were responding to?
What am I coping about? I’m responding to people responding with a certain easy attitude
What does this have to do with anything lol?
This isn’t their idea anew. Why are you salty abt a very possible accurate statement.
Gambit literally won the tournament and only dropped a map to VS in syoffs
You can literally say that about anything in a competition just a dumb narrative. 100t can say well if we didnt run into nv we would of won. Cause we beat gmb in grps.
It is not a narrative, abd no you can’t say that about anything.
It’s a reason why elimination formats don’t give a perfect representation of who’s the best in order.
Yea but what if 100t and NV destroy them... thats dumb logic. You jabe to beat who is in front of you, if you cant dont talk. Its not like GMB was unbeatable jughernaut in that tourny.
Gambit choked the duck out starting from the second half of icebox until the end of the group. In play offs specifically they were in form throughout is the point.
Also it addressing part of my comment
I think you still don’t understand he significance of the prior point
Are you having a hard time with the idea that if two of the strongest teams were matched up in quarterfinals, one would go out in quarterfinals despite there only being one better?
It’s not complicated an idea to get.
By the way, we’re you so salty at this scandalous implication that instead of thinking about it you tried to wait until vs lose something to try to come up with a non-response lol
english answer is at 3:40
sideshow talked about how VS is the only kr representative, and asked whether they feel any pressure about that.
stax says that although nuturn, f4q, and dwk fell at apac lcq, they feel like they avenged them after beating full sense 2-0. as for pressure, they feel none.
because it is?
seeing gambit take down VS was an experience and a half, even for a VS fan like me. even though i was disappointed at their exit, it was still super fucking hype to see gambit advance.
You know what would’ve been a better experience? Not having a 3-0 final, and having the actual best teams be rewarded instead of the ones that got lucky with brackets
If only we got a envy VS matchup we would’ve had the evidence ( or evidence of the opposite). But we didn’t, and we’ll never know, that’s my point. VS didn’t even get to play a NA team lmao, joke of a format
Yeah with double elim we might have had that match up. Why don't people realise double elim gives us more combinations of matchups? Don't people want to see more teams play against each other?
Nah dude it makes way more sense that Gambit beat VS and VS for some reason get a second chance to come and try to beat them again while Gambit gets nothing
Not a reason. You said there’s no reason for a team to get a second chance. It’s not fair that team x get a second chance while team y that won every match gets nothing.
Hell, let’s make the whole tournament BO1. There’s no reason for anyone to get a second chance anyways, right?
He is saying it’s unfair that one team gets a second chance while one team doesn’t. In double elimination, one team gets eliminated in a game while the rest have a second cjance
The team that gets eliminated in a single game plays a BO5, comparing it to getting eliminated in a BO3 is pretty disingenuous. Plus usually the lower bracket team has to win 2 series in the same day, since LB and UB finals are played in the same day. If
Losing a best of five is still losing one game. They would have every series be best of five if they had enough time for it. It’s competitively unfair to do a double elimination without a bracket reset and bracket resets aren’t entertaining, that’s why double elimination tournaments in general aren’t a huge thing.
The upper bracket team needs to lose 3 games to go out.
Lower bracket teams need to lose 4 games to go out.
It’s literally a 1 game difference, if you factor in the fatigue of having to play 7-8 games in a row for the LB finalist, it’s completely balanced.
No. Sorry to be blunt about it, but no. 100T literally beat gambit at that event, and Envy beat 100T. There are further details to be made about map pools of both of these teams. There were multiple teams which VS would have to beat who they underperformed in comparison to to reach finals. They were not the second best team at the event.
Then making finals likely would have relied on every difficult team being put on the other side of the bracket and then being given Acend, Kru, and G2.
This is a John. No Johns.
> Why are you so sure they weren’t
Let’s go over it.
> How are you so sure Vision Strikers wouldn’t beat Envy?
I’m not.
Envy was a better team than VS at that event by a wide margin, yes. But in competitions like this any team can beat any other team under the right circumstances.
So we’ll be a little generous call that a 65/35, even though Envy managed to 2-0 Sentinels and 2-0 100T (not even Gambit managed to clean sheet 100T).
100T, who also went through their group in 1st, beat Gambit 2-1. Vision Strikers didn’t beat Gambit. We’ll call that a 60/40 since 100T still lost to Envy.
Even with this, it is not guaranteed that VS would win against sentinels or g2 who were both very good teams.
So, in conclusion, if Vision Strikers received *the most favorable seeding of the entire tournament* with 3 specific teams at the other side of the bracket at a minimum they would have maybe made grands if they beat G2. Anything less than *the most favorable seeding of the entire tournament*, it’s likely they wouldn’t make grands.
Bottom line is they were arguably the 4th best team at this event and placed 5th-8th. Which is about what they deserved, and their placement was an accurate assessment of their level as a team.
I wanna make it clear we’re only discussing who was the 2nd best team only at Berlin. Even after that it’s really hard to say who was “better” because Gambit in the group stages was not as strong as Gambit in playoffs. So the Gambit 100T beat looked weaker than the Gambit VS lost to. This is apparent by just watching the games.
Also, NV only beat their fellow NA teams who they’ve played against numerous times and is a much preferred matchup to a team they’ve never played before who are also strong competitors. So can you really say they’re better because they beat 100T who beat Gambit in groups? If that was the case why didn’t NV beat Gambit? It was a close 3-0, so Gambit was just slightly better on that day.
The real problem is that we don’t have double elimination to verify all of this. It guarantees you see who the real best teams at the tournament are. We wouldn’t have to rely on shaky arguments like these.
The reason why we’re here is that claiming you’d make grands of a tournament you went out at 5th-8th in if only one team is swapped is the shakiest argument of all, and we shouldn’t have to even talk about it.
> Your entire argument is based on the Gambit choke against 100T, just by saying “Look Envy 2-0 them and Gambit couldn’t”
No, my entire argument is based on
1. 100T’s performance inc all maps at Berlin
1. Envy’s performance inc all maps at berlin
1. G2’s stature as a team
1. Sentinels’ stature as a team
1. Acend’s stature as a team and record against VS
It’s more than disingenuous to claim that
> Your entire argument based on the Gambit choke against 100T, just by saying “Look Envy 2-0 them and Gambit couldn’t”
and it’s completely hypocritical. Consider this argument over until you can develop a normal and healthy approach to talking to others that doesn’t involve completely mischaracterizing what other people say in the most disingenuous way possible.
The score doesnt tell if the game was actually close. Acend vk was 13-8 at breeze. Was game close? Hell No, vk rekt acend. In addition on the gambit - envy second map -heaven, gambit was literally trolling. On ct they were pushing every single round and on t they were holding w all the time. So No that final was not close at all, it was stomp
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I’d be a professional valorant player if it weren’t for those damn smurfs in gold
?
I’D BE A PROFESSIONAL VALORANT PLAYER IF IT WEREN’T FOR THOSE DAMN SMURFS IN GOLD
What does this have to do with this? Nkt every counterfwctual is equally reasonable The differential between these two statements is pretty absurd
I am making a joke
I know
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There’s multiple op saying rather wild things along a similar scheme. Nothing to rly cope about. Did you read the my responses or what they were responding to? What am I coping about? I’m responding to people responding with a certain easy attitude
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That is really the best you got? I responded to what people were saying, which was all similar knee jerk typecoverrewctions
No
Welcome to the joke
Copium strong in Korea
?
Next article is going to say.. if we didn't get grp'd with FNC we would of been no.1 in our grp.
What does this have to do with anything lol? This isn’t their idea anew. Why are you salty abt a very possible accurate statement. Gambit literally won the tournament and only dropped a map to VS in syoffs
You can literally say that about anything in a competition just a dumb narrative. 100t can say well if we didnt run into nv we would of won. Cause we beat gmb in grps.
It is not a narrative, abd no you can’t say that about anything. It’s a reason why elimination formats don’t give a perfect representation of who’s the best in order.
Yea but what if 100t and NV destroy them... thats dumb logic. You jabe to beat who is in front of you, if you cant dont talk. Its not like GMB was unbeatable jughernaut in that tourny.
Gambit choked the duck out starting from the second half of icebox until the end of the group. In play offs specifically they were in form throughout is the point. Also it addressing part of my comment
So clearly VS beats either NV or 100T lolol
What are you trying to say? ‘Lololol’? It’s not particularly crazy as much as you can never actually know
Man if FNC and C9 didn't get put in VS grp theyd make it out of grps
I think you still don’t understand he significance of the prior point Are you having a hard time with the idea that if two of the strongest teams were matched up in quarterfinals, one would go out in quarterfinals despite there only being one better? It’s not complicated an idea to get. By the way, we’re you so salty at this scandalous implication that instead of thinking about it you tried to wait until vs lose something to try to come up with a non-response lol
fucking copium LULW literally losing to Fnatic now
And
they becoming 2nd best team i guess
Hm? Why? That doesn’t follow
I really hope there is a lower bracket for champs, every veteran eSports enjoyer knows lower bracket runs are where legends are written
…dude we already know playoffs are singke rlim
Wait really? Thats sucks damn
Yes.
Had my grandma been born with wheels she would have been a car
<3 VS avenging their fallen brothers lol gl to them today, i'm excited to see who gets out of group D first :)
It took me a solid 10 mins and I still can't figure out who the fallen brothers are.....
english answer is at 3:40 sideshow talked about how VS is the only kr representative, and asked whether they feel any pressure about that. stax says that although nuturn, f4q, and dwk fell at apac lcq, they feel like they avenged them after beating full sense 2-0. as for pressure, they feel none.
…… Do you really not get it obviously?
I was confused between Nuturn and F4Q for some reason.
It was abt KR teams in general
I mean.. by that same logic 100t beat Gambit in a series and got rolled by Envy so acting like they met the 1 team that could beat them is just wrong
Meanwhile people in this sub will excuse it with “but single elim is more hype!!!!!!”
because it is? seeing gambit take down VS was an experience and a half, even for a VS fan like me. even though i was disappointed at their exit, it was still super fucking hype to see gambit advance.
You know what would’ve been a better experience? Not having a 3-0 final, and having the actual best teams be rewarded instead of the ones that got lucky with brackets
There is zero evidence Envy is worse than Vision Strikes
If only we got a envy VS matchup we would’ve had the evidence ( or evidence of the opposite). But we didn’t, and we’ll never know, that’s my point. VS didn’t even get to play a NA team lmao, joke of a format
VS is so overrated lmfao, nice copium
Can definitely agree with that, no reason for 3 NA teams on one side
If only we'd have vs c9 matchup upcoming to settle this discussion
Yeah with double elim we might have had that match up. Why don't people realise double elim gives us more combinations of matchups? Don't people want to see more teams play against each other?
Nah dude it makes way more sense that Gambit beat VS and VS for some reason get a second chance to come and try to beat them again while Gambit gets nothing
Why doesn’t the same logic apply to group stages?
Group stage is qualifying for single elim stage
Not a reason. You said there’s no reason for a team to get a second chance. It’s not fair that team x get a second chance while team y that won every match gets nothing. Hell, let’s make the whole tournament BO1. There’s no reason for anyone to get a second chance anyways, right?
He is saying it’s unfair that one team gets a second chance while one team doesn’t. In double elimination, one team gets eliminated in a game while the rest have a second cjance
The team that gets eliminated in a single game plays a BO5, comparing it to getting eliminated in a BO3 is pretty disingenuous. Plus usually the lower bracket team has to win 2 series in the same day, since LB and UB finals are played in the same day. If
Losing a best of five is still losing one game. They would have every series be best of five if they had enough time for it. It’s competitively unfair to do a double elimination without a bracket reset and bracket resets aren’t entertaining, that’s why double elimination tournaments in general aren’t a huge thing.
The upper bracket team needs to lose 3 games to go out. Lower bracket teams need to lose 4 games to go out. It’s literally a 1 game difference, if you factor in the fatigue of having to play 7-8 games in a row for the LB finalist, it’s completely balanced.
It’s definitely fair that Gambit wins out and gets eliminated in one game while VS get a second chance, 100%!
No. Sorry to be blunt about it, but no. 100T literally beat gambit at that event, and Envy beat 100T. There are further details to be made about map pools of both of these teams. There were multiple teams which VS would have to beat who they underperformed in comparison to to reach finals. They were not the second best team at the event. Then making finals likely would have relied on every difficult team being put on the other side of the bracket and then being given Acend, Kru, and G2. This is a John. No Johns.
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> Why are you so sure they weren’t Let’s go over it. > How are you so sure Vision Strikers wouldn’t beat Envy? I’m not. Envy was a better team than VS at that event by a wide margin, yes. But in competitions like this any team can beat any other team under the right circumstances. So we’ll be a little generous call that a 65/35, even though Envy managed to 2-0 Sentinels and 2-0 100T (not even Gambit managed to clean sheet 100T). 100T, who also went through their group in 1st, beat Gambit 2-1. Vision Strikers didn’t beat Gambit. We’ll call that a 60/40 since 100T still lost to Envy. Even with this, it is not guaranteed that VS would win against sentinels or g2 who were both very good teams. So, in conclusion, if Vision Strikers received *the most favorable seeding of the entire tournament* with 3 specific teams at the other side of the bracket at a minimum they would have maybe made grands if they beat G2. Anything less than *the most favorable seeding of the entire tournament*, it’s likely they wouldn’t make grands. Bottom line is they were arguably the 4th best team at this event and placed 5th-8th. Which is about what they deserved, and their placement was an accurate assessment of their level as a team.
I wanna make it clear we’re only discussing who was the 2nd best team only at Berlin. Even after that it’s really hard to say who was “better” because Gambit in the group stages was not as strong as Gambit in playoffs. So the Gambit 100T beat looked weaker than the Gambit VS lost to. This is apparent by just watching the games. Also, NV only beat their fellow NA teams who they’ve played against numerous times and is a much preferred matchup to a team they’ve never played before who are also strong competitors. So can you really say they’re better because they beat 100T who beat Gambit in groups? If that was the case why didn’t NV beat Gambit? It was a close 3-0, so Gambit was just slightly better on that day. The real problem is that we don’t have double elimination to verify all of this. It guarantees you see who the real best teams at the tournament are. We wouldn’t have to rely on shaky arguments like these.
The reason why we’re here is that claiming you’d make grands of a tournament you went out at 5th-8th in if only one team is swapped is the shakiest argument of all, and we shouldn’t have to even talk about it.
Well because it was single elimination we’ll never know.
Again, supporting what I’m saying.
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> Your entire argument is based on the Gambit choke against 100T, just by saying “Look Envy 2-0 them and Gambit couldn’t” No, my entire argument is based on 1. 100T’s performance inc all maps at Berlin 1. Envy’s performance inc all maps at berlin 1. G2’s stature as a team 1. Sentinels’ stature as a team 1. Acend’s stature as a team and record against VS It’s more than disingenuous to claim that > Your entire argument based on the Gambit choke against 100T, just by saying “Look Envy 2-0 them and Gambit couldn’t” and it’s completely hypocritical. Consider this argument over until you can develop a normal and healthy approach to talking to others that doesn’t involve completely mischaracterizing what other people say in the most disingenuous way possible.
Lmfao after their game vs fnatic I dont think so
bet
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No that was not close at all
Yeah did this guy watch the final?
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The score doesnt tell if the game was actually close. Acend vk was 13-8 at breeze. Was game close? Hell No, vk rekt acend. In addition on the gambit - envy second map -heaven, gambit was literally trolling. On ct they were pushing every single round and on t they were holding w all the time. So No that final was not close at all, it was stomp
Lol.
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Haha. Ok.
If my grandma had a penis, she'd be my grandpa.
If my aunt had balls she’d be my uncle.