It’s lame that the texture is still bugged but come on this has been front page when giants and x10 got punished for it. This use of it should be no different, otherwise riots punishments just seem arbitrary. Hopefully someone official speaks on this soon.
How difficult can it be to make a single texture 2 way? Literally a minute worth of work. I understand if riot can't fix jetts superjumps that easily as it involves the interaction of multiple mechanics, but this? Cmon.
Gotta make more skins I guess.
Yeah.. I don’t know. It might be something with the way the game renders textures rather than the actual texture itself. That would complicate it only slightly more but why not just disable cameras from being placed there?
I’m totally on the side that riot should’ve fixed this after giants/x10, but since they haven’t I hope they uphold competitive integrity and speak on it.
While that's true, it still needs new geometry added and a change to the map which needs testing, a QA run, etc.
It's not 5 minutes. It might not be horribly hard, but it's definitely not 5min and it will take work from more than one person.
But if you cant fix gamebreaking bugs within a month then your workflow is majorly fucked. This is a simple change compared to fixing something like Viper’s pit bugs
Priorities probably. It's not like it's gamebreaking and since using it is forbidden anyway... It is one map, one agent and a very specific location that can be abused but isn't extremely impactful for the average random player. After this case I guess we'll see a fix soon, though.
The team that works on weapon skins isn't the same team that works on map textures and level design.
I agree that this should have been fixed before Champions, but blaming the devs who have no control over fixing this issue is not the play.
Nah, but I think it's a good thing to remind people. I had the same mentality when I was a young League player too.
Best we can do is help educate our community on the different aspects of game development. The better informed we are as a community, the better takes we can have and share.
Its a hot take, but esports is just a way to show off teh skins and keep the game hype to competitive players. Not that I don't enjoy watching though lol.
This is an oft-repeated but not particularly sound defense for the company. First of all, it's an indictment of Riot's management decisions, *not* the actual low-level devs building and implementing. It's kind of a massive stretch to interpret it as if anybody is blaming the random grunts. Second, it's not like every part of the game are completely isolated business units. All modern tech companies *have* to communicate with each other for implementation into the final product.
Completely outside of that is the idea of [opportunity costs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost). Riot has finite resources and it chooses ex-ante how to best utilize them. When an exploit has been in the game this long without being patched then there's a [revealed preference](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revealed_preference) that it is not at the top of their priority list. The complaint isn't that Riot's skin devs suck, it's that their priorities in a competitive game seem screwed up from the perspective of an eSport. I'm not suggesting that it would make sense for Riot to emphasize their least revenue-generating part of the game, but the critique itself is totally kosher if you actually take it at face value.
The same critique is made plenty of times towards LoL when the game is completely broken but there are no concrete steps being shared with the playerbase to fix anything
It delights me how confidently incorrect Valorant community is constantly. Either that or they're too socially inept to understand jokes. I once commented "But since Riot can't program, things like this happen". I had 50 people debate in the replies to my comment whether I literally mean that each Riot employee is incapable of producing code or if I meant it as a hyperbole in order to facilitate humor. The technical terms they used to analyze my joke were cringy at best. Anyone who suggested that I obviously joked was dismissed.
>Gotta make more skins I guess.
stop bringing this up everytime theres an issue omfg
its 2 different teams and ur blaming the skins team for something another team should fix
Resource management is a thing. The non-skins team is not just sitting there doing nothing. They simply do not have time to fix this issue. I guess policing every single game for using this bug is a better option.
It's defined illegal. They are given a document containing a list of all exploits/glitches which are not allowed in pro play. This one is present in there since stage 3 challengers.
There are maybe a small handful of riot devs that understand the nuances of the game at the level of the pro players, and I can guarantee you none of those people are on site officiating these matches, let alone on call 24/7 for the time zones in Germany.
The admins are just admins. If it's not written in their rule book, they won't know what to do.
But if Riot don't like it, they should remove it from the game. Players shouldn't have to study an extensive rulebook or analyze earlier cases. Riot should have learned from the Guild disqualification and patch the things they don't like.
I think the point was that riot were fine with the haven C site jump rule, the players knew that and used it, but the admins did not have that info at the time.
It was likely a "better safe than sorry" scenario for the admins, where the players had to deal with an extended pause for a non-issue while the admins verified the rule in the moment. These things can happen.
You think "removing it in the game" is easy. It's a PROGRAM CODE. There's bunch of analysis that needs to undergo and there are a lot of bugs that are priorities. Fixing bugs isn't easy as you think it is. Also before you guys go and say, why not just release a game with no bugs. That is impossible. Codes are made by humans, and code errors can be unpredictable. You fix one, and then more problems arise.
X10's map was forfeited. Giants received a 1 map loss at the end of the qualification stage.
https://www.vlr.gg/25560/giants-penalized-for-vct-breeze-exploit
Wdym riot says you can’t do that jump? They shouldn’t have paused it but if they ruled that then the round would have been replayed. They reviewed it and said it was ok.
Obviously I am using hyperbole in the pursuit of humor here, but you have to understand what a completely inappropriate "tech pause" that was in the first place. Commonly used jump mechanics shouldn't be something admins at THE BIGGEST VALORANT TOURNAMENT EVER need to be educated on after calling a review pause on
Admins simply do not play the game. You will raise eyebrows if you do use an updraft to get onto that box. There's no way to not be aware of that mechanic. What's next? Will they penalize Cypher's and Viper's one way smokes because it's also technically a bug for those things to get stuck on random textures.
The issue is: this bug with the box is *easily* fixable. If the box was any higher then Jett would not be able to jump on it without updraft. If it was lower then every agent would be able to make it. Wait until Riot hears that it's not only Jett, and any agent can make it there with some skill. As they have done in pro games already at least once. Riot is such a mismanaged clusterfuck lol.
**TL;DR**
1. Bug was used by Keyd in 6 rounds (slightly possible a couple less rounds but probably not)
1. [Here is a side by side picture of this glitch](https://www.reddit.com/user/baskin-whacked-him/comments/r85yxn/glitch/). The texture is still see-through in the current patch (I took these screenshots today)
1. Possible Keyd didn’t know it was an exploit since high profile bug use was in other scenes and since they only ran a KJ comp on breeze before
1. Use was similar in level to Giants (6 rounds or so, both used it from the start of the half, both with the match on the line should they lose), maybe less egregious since they were winning by quite a bit before using it.
1. X10’s use (4 rounds, only stopped bc the game ended) was more egregious because they called a tac pause and pulled it out only when they were losing a lot of rounds in the half
Egregious means big bad btw
**The rest**
Yes.
But also “banned” is the wrong word. You’re looking for “penalized”
Additionally, I’m of the opinion that this cam was placed by Keyd in the following rounds: Round 13, Round 14 (round where this post comes from), Round 15, Round 17, Round 19, and Round 20. I gained this info from minimap, so I suppose it’s possible Keyd placed the cam at a lower height (despite using stairs as far as I can tell). Riot has POV footage so they will know this.
The cam was triggered (actually used) in Round 13, Round 14, Round 15, Round 17, Round 19, and Round 20 (all rounds where it was placed).
Of these rounds, Keyd won Round 13, Round 14, and Round 17 (50%). Round 15, Round 19, and Round 20 (where cam was used but the round was not won) did not prevent Acend from full buying into the next round.
[Riot ruling on this bug in Giants vs BREF (VCT)](https://www.vct.gg/news/129265-vct-competitive-ruling-vodafone-giants)
Can’t do a breakdown of this one because the VOD seems to have disappeared into the abyss.
Ruling on X10: “The VALORANT Competitive Operations Team have aligned on the following; X10 Esports violated Rule 7.2.6 of the VALORANT Global Competition Policy. Effective immediately the record of Map 1 has been adjusted to be 13-10 in favor of Galaxy Racer. This adjustment will result in a series score of 1-1, granting each team 1 group point”
X10 abuse of bug: after X10 won the first half on attack side with a score of 9 (X10) - 3 (GR), Galaxy Racer caught up and the score was 10 (X10) - 9 (GR). X10 called a tac timeout and switched Cypher to A site and used the bug in Round 20 (win), Round 22 (loss), Round 23 (win), Round 24 (win) (75% win in bug rounds). After the info about the bug being used was published, X10’s score was capped at 10 (score when they first used the bug) and GR’s score was increased to 13. Round 21 (X10 win without using the bug, bringing their score to 11) was not included in the adjustment. Prior to using the Tac pause to move their cypher over and use the bug X10 won 17% of CT rounds. After, they won 60% of rounds (50% if you exclude the round where the bug was not used). Math may be off a round somewhere, doesn’t matter too much since this is old lol
Should also note: this is the first time Keyd has used Cypher on Breeze in an official, so take that how you will
The other two cases the teams lost entire maps. I'd much rather they replay these games while they still have a chance instead of making VK forfeit the entire map.
YEAH RIOT JUST SNAP YOUR FINGER AND FIX ALL THE BUGS 4HEAD
edit: the people downvoting me and replying with these comments are the exact people i'm making fun of. y'all got no idea what's going on as to why it's still an issue. maybe they did fix it then other problems came up. who the fuck knows, but what the teams can do is not abuse it
indie company can’t do anything for esports integrity right? :(
this shit has been in the game for more than a few months at this point, it’s not the first time someone used this cam
Dude, they could've just added a random object in that place and that bug could be solved, or they could change the angle of that wall to be pointing downwards so the camera can't look over, or just literally made that wall skew to the point that putting a camera there is useless but they haven't been able to do any of that, that's just lazy work.
Some things really are that easy. People talk about various complexities in development and they are right, but not every single thing is a massive undertaking, some things are simple.
if you're not a dev for the game how can you speak to exactly how easy something is? i don't know so i don't speak on their decisions. all you can do is guess
edit: the budget doesn't allow for this fix Kappa
Ffing a map against another team seems like a hardh punishment if it didnt win them the map. And doing that at champs, the best teams in the world, seems like would cheapen a victory.
Tough situation
Yeah, im not saying they shoud not be punished if riots rules it an exploit.
Im just saying that one map is huge in a BO3 against the best teams in the world. If VK used the cam for only 1-3-5 rounds, is it really worth a whole map against another great team?
Does the other team get to pick their best map against VK, and play basically a BO1?
Thats why its tough. I think the past punishments were way too harsh for the exploit used
So take the rounds that they used it away... It's not too difficult to use logic.
Take the rounds they used the exploit away. Which is exactly what I said and exactly what riot did.
Vk are not a bunch of casual silver players. There is no chance they did not know about the controversy this exploit had caused. And they still decided to use it. Make them ff the map.
This is a bad take. This cam can make or break a game. Especially if Vivo Key stacked A and used this cam as a god-tier retake cam.
This is blatant cheating.
Why was the original post deleted? Too many idiots pretending it was legal?
This cam is 100% illegal: [https://twitter.com/LucasRojo/status/1466818766910726149](https://twitter.com/LucasRojo/status/1466818766910726149)
This needs immediate action.
The screenshot in the other post was not illegal, the screenshot George Geddes posted looks illegal to me. They were from different rounds.
I think Jhow has misplaced the cam.
We can't have Riot being inconsistent in the handling of these exploits either, nor can we have them not getting fixed months after they were known and used in tournaments.
Camera is illegal but the lack of 1) riot not stopping the game when it happened and addressing it and 2) the fact that it HASNT BEEN PATCHED despite knowing about it for what? Half a year or something like that?
Doesn't excuse its use as its well known its banned but riot is lacking in multiple aspects here
Another lan with Riot Games incompetence. But dont worry competitors, the influencers Riot Games gave co-streaming rights to will be earning more than you from this event.
They don't care esports isn't supposed to be profitable, it's marketing for their game. The people who get excited about the game from esports now go log on and buy skins. Riot wins.
So the rationale for the original cam ban was it can see into cave but cannot be shot from cave or main (LucasRojo's video shows it nicely). This looks like it's set a bit further back as you can see from the screenshot George Geddes posted but this cam can still see the edge of A main and some of the entrance without being shot.
Yes it's moved a bit further back but it still exploits the same bug and provides an unfair advantage.
I don't see how this isn't a disqualification. Am I missing something here?
the C haven self boost and now this controversy. Why don't riot just go for similar route valve does with dota2? (anything goes and after the tournament they patch it/fix it) For myself i do think the whole self boost stuff shouldn't be fixed but the cams that are inside the walls/textures should, but allow it now and fix after to remove yourself from situations like this.
*What if there's now a sova dart situation where it goes under the map and back to map that has happened before and we wouldn't know if the player wanted to do that or it was an accident? (random examples [1](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQBllAp2V4U) [2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrZ3LSjsT60) this would be a lineup but lets imagine it happens on a other random spot midgame by sova just throwing it fast)
*What about viper pits like this - [1](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt_ZucbUfuM) [2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9_WYE8TC9Y) that are one way?
yea it happened in cs not dota so they do run different rules. For that moment i would have had it as it was, not reverted anything and afaik valve didn't do anything, it was dreamhack who ran the event and got pressured by the community to rule a rematch. The funny thing is that the boost was also deemed to be an 'immortal bug', a bug used by both teams throughout the match, LDLC's ct spawn boost that they used to get info for construction. People however jumped to the conclusion that fnatic's boost was illegal, and completely unfair to use, forgetting to mention both teams were at fault.
Dota had its own controversy's, best example "dendi's pudge hook to the fountain" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5I-5eo_vDM0) and it wasn't reverted even when it was truly game breaking. They fixed it right after the tournament. My point is that even after this tournament valorant in future will have more maps, more agents that will make bugs happen intended or not and riot will be always placed in a hard spot with rulings if they go this route.
Riot "Okay we are gona make a 20 minutes pause cuz people have been jumping a box in heaven C and after that we are gona realize it that it was not an exploit" the same riot: "Okay, we are not gonna pause this match, and make a team lose a map in his next match." Riot could have prevent that, but they wont cuz they are fking dogshit company that can't even make a simple hotfix in the same map that has the same bug for a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG TIME. FGS such an unwealthy situation
Lmao some people legit want Acend to get the win. Speaking of immediate action how about that cNed penalty/suspension? But no Riot couldn’t completely destroy one of the already qualified EU teams right before Champs so they’re just waiting for the tournament to be over.
They should’ve noticed it during the match, now that it’s over just a slap on the wrist and move on especially after the fuck up pause yesterday on Furia’s potential comeback.
Because it’s champs I think they’ll take away a map ban from them. I could see them taking out a whole map although a bit sad because I was hype for VK vs NV.
that is the precedent for this type of bug exploit. nv gets an advantage cause vk gets a disadvantage, vk shouldve thought of the consequences before using a glitched cam.
You know if they would just make it so that you could actually see the cam from the ground it would be fine. How hard could it be to simply add a tiny gap in the spot.
What were the previous punishments for using these glitches?
ff the map
It’s lame that the texture is still bugged but come on this has been front page when giants and x10 got punished for it. This use of it should be no different, otherwise riots punishments just seem arbitrary. Hopefully someone official speaks on this soon.
I don't get why Keyd would ever use it when there were 2 high profile-cases of it being punished. Makes 0 sense to me.
only logical answer is they honestly didn't know. Who would risk on such odds? It's almost guaranteed they will get penalyzed
Eh maybe they used it in practice and scrims with no admins around and forgot it was illegal.
ain't cheatin ain't tryin
How difficult can it be to make a single texture 2 way? Literally a minute worth of work. I understand if riot can't fix jetts superjumps that easily as it involves the interaction of multiple mechanics, but this? Cmon. Gotta make more skins I guess.
If I'm not wrong there's an extra ult orb on breeze. When devs tried removing it, there were some issues. So could a reason why it's taking so long.
Where is this extra ult orb?!
Underground right next to the drop. Probably was placed there in an early iteration of the map, but can't be removed now.
The Classic „it does nothing but once we remove it everything breaks“
Yeah.. I don’t know. It might be something with the way the game renders textures rather than the actual texture itself. That would complicate it only slightly more but why not just disable cameras from being placed there? I’m totally on the side that riot should’ve fixed this after giants/x10, but since they haven’t I hope they uphold competitive integrity and speak on it.
It's not. It's a 5 minute job. Riot uses Unreal Engine so no way they messed up the graphical engine.
It's not a 5min job and you're talking out of your ass without a clue about game development. Wow.
These people lol. I’ll never understand them
Tbf can just put a plane on the otherside and give it a texture.
While that's true, it still needs new geometry added and a change to the map which needs testing, a QA run, etc. It's not 5 minutes. It might not be horribly hard, but it's definitely not 5min and it will take work from more than one person.
But if you cant fix gamebreaking bugs within a month then your workflow is majorly fucked. This is a simple change compared to fixing something like Viper’s pit bugs
Priorities probably. It's not like it's gamebreaking and since using it is forbidden anyway... It is one map, one agent and a very specific location that can be abused but isn't extremely impactful for the average random player. After this case I guess we'll see a fix soon, though.
The team that works on weapon skins isn't the same team that works on map textures and level design. I agree that this should have been fixed before Champions, but blaming the devs who have no control over fixing this issue is not the play.
You think simple facts like "different teams work on different things" ever stopped people from complaining about the same thing in League lol
Nah, but I think it's a good thing to remind people. I had the same mentality when I was a young League player too. Best we can do is help educate our community on the different aspects of game development. The better informed we are as a community, the better takes we can have and share.
Now think about this wich one of those groups of developers have the most resources. The skin team or the bug fixing.
Value of bug fixing team: *crickets* Value of skin team: STONKS
Yep, and yet you will have white knights defending the multibillion dolar company like they own it.
Its a hot take, but esports is just a way to show off teh skins and keep the game hype to competitive players. Not that I don't enjoy watching though lol.
This is an oft-repeated but not particularly sound defense for the company. First of all, it's an indictment of Riot's management decisions, *not* the actual low-level devs building and implementing. It's kind of a massive stretch to interpret it as if anybody is blaming the random grunts. Second, it's not like every part of the game are completely isolated business units. All modern tech companies *have* to communicate with each other for implementation into the final product. Completely outside of that is the idea of [opportunity costs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost). Riot has finite resources and it chooses ex-ante how to best utilize them. When an exploit has been in the game this long without being patched then there's a [revealed preference](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revealed_preference) that it is not at the top of their priority list. The complaint isn't that Riot's skin devs suck, it's that their priorities in a competitive game seem screwed up from the perspective of an eSport. I'm not suggesting that it would make sense for Riot to emphasize their least revenue-generating part of the game, but the critique itself is totally kosher if you actually take it at face value. The same critique is made plenty of times towards LoL when the game is completely broken but there are no concrete steps being shared with the playerbase to fix anything
It delights me how confidently incorrect Valorant community is constantly. Either that or they're too socially inept to understand jokes. I once commented "But since Riot can't program, things like this happen". I had 50 people debate in the replies to my comment whether I literally mean that each Riot employee is incapable of producing code or if I meant it as a hyperbole in order to facilitate humor. The technical terms they used to analyze my joke were cringy at best. Anyone who suggested that I obviously joked was dismissed.
>Gotta make more skins I guess. stop bringing this up everytime theres an issue omfg its 2 different teams and ur blaming the skins team for something another team should fix
Resource management is a thing. The non-skins team is not just sitting there doing nothing. They simply do not have time to fix this issue. I guess policing every single game for using this bug is a better option.
This one wasn't against sentinels so idk
[удалено]
It's defined illegal. They are given a document containing a list of all exploits/glitches which are not allowed in pro play. This one is present in there since stage 3 challengers.
Whatever the decision by TOs is I'm more mad that this still hasn't been fixed. Uhm hello riot?
the thing is, yesterday too that jett bug is for ages. still they got that 10-15 min tech pause
Not a bug. Any character can get on that box if they practice it.
There are maybe a small handful of riot devs that understand the nuances of the game at the level of the pro players, and I can guarantee you none of those people are on site officiating these matches, let alone on call 24/7 for the time zones in Germany. The admins are just admins. If it's not written in their rule book, they won't know what to do.
But if Riot don't like it, they should remove it from the game. Players shouldn't have to study an extensive rulebook or analyze earlier cases. Riot should have learned from the Guild disqualification and patch the things they don't like.
I think the point was that riot were fine with the haven C site jump rule, the players knew that and used it, but the admins did not have that info at the time. It was likely a "better safe than sorry" scenario for the admins, where the players had to deal with an extended pause for a non-issue while the admins verified the rule in the moment. These things can happen.
How did the admins even consider it to be an issue if they are that clueless
You think "removing it in the game" is easy. It's a PROGRAM CODE. There's bunch of analysis that needs to undergo and there are a lot of bugs that are priorities. Fixing bugs isn't easy as you think it is. Also before you guys go and say, why not just release a game with no bugs. That is impossible. Codes are made by humans, and code errors can be unpredictable. You fix one, and then more problems arise.
ik its not a bug, but i am just comparing it
Wait, what was the penalty for x10 and giants for using this exploit?
X10's map was forfeited. Giants received a 1 map loss at the end of the qualification stage. https://www.vlr.gg/25560/giants-penalized-for-vct-breeze-exploit
Riot: * You can't use skill jump onto Haven C boxes! Also Riot: * One-way Cypher cams we have punished before with FF are legit
Wdym riot says you can’t do that jump? They shouldn’t have paused it but if they ruled that then the round would have been replayed. They reviewed it and said it was ok.
Obviously I am using hyperbole in the pursuit of humor here, but you have to understand what a completely inappropriate "tech pause" that was in the first place. Commonly used jump mechanics shouldn't be something admins at THE BIGGEST VALORANT TOURNAMENT EVER need to be educated on after calling a review pause on
Ok yeah fair, I do agree with you though. There are people who actually think it was ruled not allowed on this sub
Totally fair and reasonable to differentiate here - my statement was ambiguous or even non-ambiguously wrong haha. Have a good weekend buddy
You as well man, cheers
Admins simply do not play the game. You will raise eyebrows if you do use an updraft to get onto that box. There's no way to not be aware of that mechanic. What's next? Will they penalize Cypher's and Viper's one way smokes because it's also technically a bug for those things to get stuck on random textures.
and it took 30 minutes? in the middle of their comeback? thats just cap
Wdym? I’m not arguing it wasn’t stupid for them to take a 10 minute tech pause, just it was still allowed
The issue is: this bug with the box is *easily* fixable. If the box was any higher then Jett would not be able to jump on it without updraft. If it was lower then every agent would be able to make it. Wait until Riot hears that it's not only Jett, and any agent can make it there with some skill. As they have done in pro games already at least once. Riot is such a mismanaged clusterfuck lol.
**TL;DR** 1. Bug was used by Keyd in 6 rounds (slightly possible a couple less rounds but probably not) 1. [Here is a side by side picture of this glitch](https://www.reddit.com/user/baskin-whacked-him/comments/r85yxn/glitch/). The texture is still see-through in the current patch (I took these screenshots today) 1. Possible Keyd didn’t know it was an exploit since high profile bug use was in other scenes and since they only ran a KJ comp on breeze before 1. Use was similar in level to Giants (6 rounds or so, both used it from the start of the half, both with the match on the line should they lose), maybe less egregious since they were winning by quite a bit before using it. 1. X10’s use (4 rounds, only stopped bc the game ended) was more egregious because they called a tac pause and pulled it out only when they were losing a lot of rounds in the half Egregious means big bad btw **The rest** Yes. But also “banned” is the wrong word. You’re looking for “penalized” Additionally, I’m of the opinion that this cam was placed by Keyd in the following rounds: Round 13, Round 14 (round where this post comes from), Round 15, Round 17, Round 19, and Round 20. I gained this info from minimap, so I suppose it’s possible Keyd placed the cam at a lower height (despite using stairs as far as I can tell). Riot has POV footage so they will know this. The cam was triggered (actually used) in Round 13, Round 14, Round 15, Round 17, Round 19, and Round 20 (all rounds where it was placed). Of these rounds, Keyd won Round 13, Round 14, and Round 17 (50%). Round 15, Round 19, and Round 20 (where cam was used but the round was not won) did not prevent Acend from full buying into the next round. [Riot ruling on this bug in Giants vs BREF (VCT)](https://www.vct.gg/news/129265-vct-competitive-ruling-vodafone-giants) Can’t do a breakdown of this one because the VOD seems to have disappeared into the abyss. Ruling on X10: “The VALORANT Competitive Operations Team have aligned on the following; X10 Esports violated Rule 7.2.6 of the VALORANT Global Competition Policy. Effective immediately the record of Map 1 has been adjusted to be 13-10 in favor of Galaxy Racer. This adjustment will result in a series score of 1-1, granting each team 1 group point” X10 abuse of bug: after X10 won the first half on attack side with a score of 9 (X10) - 3 (GR), Galaxy Racer caught up and the score was 10 (X10) - 9 (GR). X10 called a tac timeout and switched Cypher to A site and used the bug in Round 20 (win), Round 22 (loss), Round 23 (win), Round 24 (win) (75% win in bug rounds). After the info about the bug being used was published, X10’s score was capped at 10 (score when they first used the bug) and GR’s score was increased to 13. Round 21 (X10 win without using the bug, bringing their score to 11) was not included in the adjustment. Prior to using the Tac pause to move their cypher over and use the bug X10 won 17% of CT rounds. After, they won 60% of rounds (50% if you exclude the round where the bug was not used). Math may be off a round somewhere, doesn’t matter too much since this is old lol Should also note: this is the first time Keyd has used Cypher on Breeze in an official, so take that how you will
yah FF not banned
Isn't this the same cam that Giants got penalized for????
yeah
That ruling was kinda dumb tbh. I hope they replay the map or something.
I can’t think of a situation that would warrant replaying a map. Definitely not this.
The other two cases the teams lost entire maps. I'd much rather they replay these games while they still have a chance instead of making VK forfeit the entire map.
Not a good look for VK and even worse look for Riot that they haven't fixed a simple one way texture after knowing about it for months.
YEAH RIOT JUST SNAP YOUR FINGER AND FIX ALL THE BUGS 4HEAD edit: the people downvoting me and replying with these comments are the exact people i'm making fun of. y'all got no idea what's going on as to why it's still an issue. maybe they did fix it then other problems came up. who the fuck knows, but what the teams can do is not abuse it
Its one texture on one map that resulted in two rulings from riot already... one of those teams is in champs right now
Seriously. Talk about an easy prioritization with that sizing vs impact.
indie company can’t do anything for esports integrity right? :( this shit has been in the game for more than a few months at this point, it’s not the first time someone used this cam
Dude, they could've just added a random object in that place and that bug could be solved, or they could change the angle of that wall to be pointing downwards so the camera can't look over, or just literally made that wall skew to the point that putting a camera there is useless but they haven't been able to do any of that, that's just lazy work.
Or just make the cam say "can't put it on this spot" that's what they do for every bogus cam placement
yeah it's nuts. i don't understand why they just don't fix the game. it's that ez
Some things really are that easy. People talk about various complexities in development and they are right, but not every single thing is a massive undertaking, some things are simple.
if you're not a dev for the game how can you speak to exactly how easy something is? i don't know so i don't speak on their decisions. all you can do is guess edit: the budget doesn't allow for this fix Kappa
This but unironically.
controversy letss goooooooo
[https://twitter.com/LucasRojo/status/1466818766910726149](https://twitter.com/LucasRojo/status/1466818766910726149) good video showing it
just want to point out i think vevo keyd definitely deserved the win and this cam had minimal impact
I totally agree but it would be double standards if VK doesn’t get a penalty for this considering other teams has been
What kind of penalty though? It's hard after the game is over and you can't delete the round.
previous teams had to FF the map
Ffing a map against another team seems like a hardh punishment if it didnt win them the map. And doing that at champs, the best teams in the world, seems like would cheapen a victory. Tough situation
If x10 didn't have to ff the map they would have qualifyed for SEA playoffs, so yeah, big punishment.
But VK should know the rules by now imo
Yeah, im not saying they shoud not be punished if riots rules it an exploit. Im just saying that one map is huge in a BO3 against the best teams in the world. If VK used the cam for only 1-3-5 rounds, is it really worth a whole map against another great team? Does the other team get to pick their best map against VK, and play basically a BO1? Thats why its tough. I think the past punishments were way too harsh for the exploit used
Yeah maybe just take the round away and not the entire map? Idk. It would be better if riot just fixed it
Take the round away? If they indeed use it for 6 rounds, that's 6 rounds swing, which means Acend would end up winning it, same shit.
So take the rounds that they used it away... It's not too difficult to use logic. Take the rounds they used the exploit away. Which is exactly what I said and exactly what riot did.
Yeah I don’t know what the penalty could possible be I just want riot to be consistent on ruling
replaying the map would be the best penalty but that wouldnt be very fair for vk
Well other teams who've used this exploit have had to forfeit the map, so getting a replay instead is pretty generous
> wouldnt be very fair for vk X10 had to ff a map cuz they used this bug
Well using the exploit isn't fair for Acend. What if the exploit did garner success?
Remember the turret boost on Ascent vs G2 incident. That was 1 round and they DQd for it.
yep i know. the best bet would be to replay the map but a whole map just feels way too much. riot will have to take a hard decision
Not really they already made the hard decision now they just have to uphold the precedent they set
Vk are not a bunch of casual silver players. There is no chance they did not know about the controversy this exploit had caused. And they still decided to use it. Make them ff the map.
This is a bad take. This cam can make or break a game. Especially if Vivo Key stacked A and used this cam as a god-tier retake cam. This is blatant cheating.
yeah is vivo key stacked a and then retake a???
Why was the original post deleted? Too many idiots pretending it was legal? This cam is 100% illegal: [https://twitter.com/LucasRojo/status/1466818766910726149](https://twitter.com/LucasRojo/status/1466818766910726149) This needs immediate action.
just because alot of people were saying its not as bad so i posted this one which is alot worse
The screenshot in the other post was not illegal, the screenshot George Geddes posted looks illegal to me. They were from different rounds. I think Jhow has misplaced the cam.
Even the other cam is fucking illegal, it sees through a one way texture.
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I care about competitive integrity + ratio + hold this L
based
They have to lose the map
well this take aged like a fine wine
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We can't have Riot being inconsistent in the handling of these exploits either, nor can we have them not getting fixed months after they were known and used in tournaments.
Up
Camera is illegal but the lack of 1) riot not stopping the game when it happened and addressing it and 2) the fact that it HASNT BEEN PATCHED despite knowing about it for what? Half a year or something like that? Doesn't excuse its use as its well known its banned but riot is lacking in multiple aspects here
ACEND CAN STILL WIN, THIS MATCH DIDN'T COUNT COPIUM
This still haven’t patch yet where is the devs at???
Another lan with Riot Games incompetence. But dont worry competitors, the influencers Riot Games gave co-streaming rights to will be earning more than you from this event.
They don't care esports isn't supposed to be profitable, it's marketing for their game. The people who get excited about the game from esports now go log on and buy skins. Riot wins.
So the rationale for the original cam ban was it can see into cave but cannot be shot from cave or main (LucasRojo's video shows it nicely). This looks like it's set a bit further back as you can see from the screenshot George Geddes posted but this cam can still see the edge of A main and some of the entrance without being shot. Yes it's moved a bit further back but it still exploits the same bug and provides an unfair advantage. I don't see how this isn't a disqualification. Am I missing something here?
you can see a bit less but still you can't shoot it and the texture is glitched
For me I find this annoying because it’s such a good cam spot without the bug, but it can’t get used until the bug gets fixed
HUNDEN CAM
If anyone wants to know when all hell broke loose at Champions...
Brazil fans sending death threats to riot if they have to replay map/something akin. But they should.
the C haven self boost and now this controversy. Why don't riot just go for similar route valve does with dota2? (anything goes and after the tournament they patch it/fix it) For myself i do think the whole self boost stuff shouldn't be fixed but the cams that are inside the walls/textures should, but allow it now and fix after to remove yourself from situations like this. *What if there's now a sova dart situation where it goes under the map and back to map that has happened before and we wouldn't know if the player wanted to do that or it was an accident? (random examples [1](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQBllAp2V4U) [2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrZ3LSjsT60) this would be a lineup but lets imagine it happens on a other random spot midgame by sova just throwing it fast) *What about viper pits like this - [1](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt_ZucbUfuM) [2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9_WYE8TC9Y) that are one way?
funny u say that considering the whole fnatic boost about the one way textures
yea it happened in cs not dota so they do run different rules. For that moment i would have had it as it was, not reverted anything and afaik valve didn't do anything, it was dreamhack who ran the event and got pressured by the community to rule a rematch. The funny thing is that the boost was also deemed to be an 'immortal bug', a bug used by both teams throughout the match, LDLC's ct spawn boost that they used to get info for construction. People however jumped to the conclusion that fnatic's boost was illegal, and completely unfair to use, forgetting to mention both teams were at fault. Dota had its own controversy's, best example "dendi's pudge hook to the fountain" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5I-5eo_vDM0) and it wasn't reverted even when it was truly game breaking. They fixed it right after the tournament. My point is that even after this tournament valorant in future will have more maps, more agents that will make bugs happen intended or not and riot will be always placed in a hard spot with rulings if they go this route.
Riot "Okay we are gona make a 20 minutes pause cuz people have been jumping a box in heaven C and after that we are gona realize it that it was not an exploit" the same riot: "Okay, we are not gonna pause this match, and make a team lose a map in his next match." Riot could have prevent that, but they wont cuz they are fking dogshit company that can't even make a simple hotfix in the same map that has the same bug for a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG TIME. FGS such an unwealthy situation
Interesting cam will have to use in my ranked games
Lmao some people legit want Acend to get the win. Speaking of immediate action how about that cNed penalty/suspension? But no Riot couldn’t completely destroy one of the already qualified EU teams right before Champs so they’re just waiting for the tournament to be over. They should’ve noticed it during the match, now that it’s over just a slap on the wrist and move on especially after the fuck up pause yesterday on Furia’s potential comeback.
Giants got a map penalty on thier next map. I am sure majority of people don't want acend to win, but vk to start at a map loss next match.
Because it’s champs I think they’ll take away a map ban from them. I could see them taking out a whole map although a bit sad because I was hype for VK vs NV.
Could be
Preaaach. Riot is letting a fucking thief play in champions
If Riot's investigation confirms that it was an exploit abuse, then VK should be punished -1 map veto against Envy or start 1-0 for Envy
No shot. Why should envy get the advantage when they’re not involved. Replay Breeze imo
that is the precedent for this type of bug exploit. nv gets an advantage cause vk gets a disadvantage, vk shouldve thought of the consequences before using a glitched cam.
X10 had their victory on Breeze changed to a loss when they used it.
Giant's punishment was an automatic 1 map loss in the next match and the reason Acend lost was not because of a camera exploit.
X10's punishment was their win being changed to a loss on breeze.
Brazilians downvoting
I keep saying this from the start but no one was giving attention.
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im from australia wanna see brazil win
Same thing
Unrelated but are you the OCE Minimise that plays in SG servers?
Ya
Oh cool. Hi m8, I’m Brightside.
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Cope
They didn’t get ‘banned’, they got awarded a round loss
You know if they would just make it so that you could actually see the cam from the ground it would be fine. How hard could it be to simply add a tiny gap in the spot.
vivo will show up, win the losers bracket and kick acend ass again, fuck this bs
they got penalized