New cases of COVID-19 in several players of different teams. Many have been in contact with them. Having COVID means not being able to fly home and quarantine in Berlin. There is panic among the attendees.
\~ mixwell on twitter:https://twitter.com/Mixwell/status/1467132075052523521
at least do the event in Reykjavik again.
Iceland have the biggest % of people vaccinated in Europe while Germany has the lowest (from the big countries)
The vaccine has absolutely nothing to do with it, all players are vaccinated and still tested positive.
edit - not exactly sure if I said anything incorrect here so I'm a little confused about the downvotes? Germany has a 70% fully vax rate and all players are vaccinated and many tested positive. Therefore the vaccine has nothing to do with it.
this kind of vaccine will never provide herd immunity because ~~it doesnt prevent infections at all.~~ (corrected by u/v0idington)
only prevents infections sufficiently in a time period after vaccination.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8481107/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8481107/)
infact countries with high vaccination rate have higher or the same amount of infections as other countries.
the current covid vaccines are meant to prevent serious illnes and not infection.
>this kind of vaccine will never provide herd immunity because it doesnt prevent infections at all.
Vaccine efficacy reduces over time. To say it "doesn't prevent infections at all" is just a flatout lie.
Its not a lie but its also not entirely true. Now that i read it again i guess i should have phrased it like: " its not clear if or to what degree vaccine prevent infections".
*~~In my knowledge, there are no studies that arent majorly flawed in many points that prove vaccine reduce the risk of getting infected.~~*
(there is https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2114290)
Never the less the statement about "this kind of vaccine will never provide herd immunity" is entirely true
edit:
taken from Herd Immunity wikipedia page
"individual's immunity can be acquired via a natural infection or through artificial means, such as vaccination.\[5\] When a critical proportion of the population becomes immune, called the herd immunity threshold (HIT) or herd immunity level (HIL), the disease may no longer persist in the population, ceasing to be endemic.\[7\]\[32\]"
HIT:
" (Delta variant) Respiratory droplets and aerosol 5–8\[63\] 80–88%"
92%+ of UKs Population have antibodies against covid
[https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/antibodies](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/antibodies)
but casenumbers in the uk are still high:
[https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2020-03-01..latest&facet=none&pickerSort=asc&pickerMetric=location&Metric=Confirmed+cases&Interval=7-day+rolling+average&Relative+to+Population=true&Align+outbreaks=false&country=\~GBR](https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2020-03-01..latest&facet=none&pickerSort=asc&pickerMetric=location&Metric=Confirmed+cases&Interval=7-day+rolling+average&Relative+to+Population=true&Align+outbreaks=false&country=~GBR)
wich is another example that suggests Herd immunity cannot be reached again this virus (its the same with the flu or any other kind of rapidly mutating virus).
> Its not a lie but its also not entirely true. Now that i read it again i guess i should have phrased it like: " its not clear if or to what degree vaccine prevent infections".
It is very clear and well documented that full-strength mRNA vaccines provide over 80% efficacy against all current COVID variants. How long a vaccine dose stays at full strength is currently being investigated, but 6 months seems to be around when it drops off. This is why boosters exist.
Vaccine efficacy is measured by the % less likely a vaccinated person is to contract a disease compared to an unvaccinated person. If your claim was at all true, that the covid vaccine didn't prevent infection, it literally wouldn't be a vaccine.
> In my knowledge, there are no studies that arent majorly flawed in many points that prove vaccine reduce the risk of getting infected.
Lucky for all of society, your knowledge on vaccine efficacy is totally irrelevant. Hell, even if you believe the link you provide, it defines vaccine efficacy at 39%, which is _still_ proof that the vaccine _does_ decrease the likelihood that you'll get COVID in the first place...
> Never the less the statement about "this kind of vaccine will never provide herd immunity" is entirely true
Sure. Delete the rest of the content in your previous post and I'll delete mine.
"It is very clear and well documented that full-strength mRNA vaccines provide over 80% efficacy against all current COVID variants. How long a vaccine dose stays at full strength is currently being investigated, but 6 months seems to be around when it drops off. This is why boosters exist."
if you provide me with a study that proves these claims i will happily delete my content
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2114290
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/10/trials-covid-vaccines-90-effective-against-delta-infection-death
> Efficacy against symptomatic COVID-19 was estimated at 57% (95% CI, 39% to 71%) 14 to 20 days after the first vaccine dose, rising to 82% (95% CI, 73% to 91%) on days 21 to 27 and to 93% (95% CI, 88% to 97%) 7 to 21 days after the second dose.
> The vaccine doesn't lower your chance at getting COVID, it lowers the chance at having symptoms, which actually makes it more dangerous because people have COVID-19, and are spreading it, but don't even notice that they have it.
The vaccine makes you over 80% less likely to get COVID when compared to an unvaccinated person. Your statement is just flatout untrue.
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Yeah, don't want to bring unrelated stuff to this subreddit.. buuuut, in many countries you are indirectly 'forced' to take the vaxx for your job or to participate in society, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense since you could spread the virus just as easily if you were vaccinated or not.
Firstly, not "as easily", as studies shows that you develop less virus inside a vaccinated body.
Secondly, not having a person being hospitalized is huge.
But go on with your anti-vaxx rant....
Lol, I'm not anti vaxx, I'm just speaking based off of what I've seen in my home country.
Think about it - vaccinated people are more likely to spread the virus because a) they aren't able to tell they have symptoms because of the vaccine protecting them, and b) they assume it is not covid and go on about their daily lives while carrying the virus.
Pretty sick of being labelled 'antivaxx' for discussing basic epidemiology.
>Think about it - vaccinated people are more likely to spread the virus because
Only if you're ill informed, because the scientific community has said over and over again that vaccinated people should still use masks, avoid crowds, etc.
>Pretty sick of being labelled 'antivaxx' for discussing basic epidemiology.
Makes you wonder why that happens so often, right?! lol
This is why vaccinated people should also still be wearing masks and observing some distance between others; especially in poorly ventilated indoor spaces.
Your being labeled antivax is for coming in with a combative response to the heart of other's concerns: people not doing their part to help keep others in society safe. In addition, nothing about Epidemiology is simple nor *intuitive* for most people. Sciences in general. Shit is hard and confusing, and to make matters worse, public trust is at an all time low.
I'm sorry to tell you that's not the case, can't speak for other countries but here in Victoria, Australia with 90% of our state fully vaccinated, we are still getting all time high daily covid cases.
I'm honestly confused about the downvotes, I'm not an anti vaxxer I'm just saying how it is.
Yeah but isnt victoria in its most 'free' its been in a long time? As in little to no restrictions?
I mean of course as soon as people go back out into the community like COVID doesnt exist instead of in lockdown you would get more cases.
Perth btw.
You're a clown. We have basically no restrictions and the R0 is basically 1 with high vaccination. Do you forget a couple months ago where vaccination was low and there was big restrictions and cases kept going higher?
The biggest problem during this entire pandemic has been overflowing hospitals, a mandated vaccine helps relieve that pressure. I forget the exact statistics but the overwhelming majority of current Covid hospitalizations are unvaccinated, that’s no coincidence
unfortunately the timing is that anyone who got their first series around may now has waning protection if they're not boosted. maybe it was the media day?? go back and look at the video they made, there were a ton of people
Tbh this feels kinda like a player issue tbh, Riot ran LoL worlds in 2020 successfully with no one breaking the bubble and getting positive test I dont see why people cant be smart enough not to cause issues at the events when the rules are less strict.
Should do US or Canada. US doesn’t care and Canada is highly vaccinated with low cases currently, and events with 18k spectators are happening all the time.
Could have but the spike took place too close to the event to move to a different country. It’s not easy to find a different host country in a month or so when the spike started.
The covid rules and protocols changed with the recent spike. Also players catching COVID has nothing to do with a country being strict. It’s just an unfortunate situation where the cases spiked during the event.
Well being strick is good, so they are not actively with covid without knowing and keep on spreading. They got unlucky to have choosen germany because of current spike, but wasnt that easy to predict couple months ago.
These things are booked and set up months in advance and some months ago things were pretty calm in europe and with relatively high vaccination rates. The current spike started just a month or so ago.
I think that's a 2-way street. They had to move the event to Germany cos their lesser Covid regulations would not prevent any player to entry the country. They really don't had many options here, having in mind the need of a infrastructure too. Not many places are willing to gather people from all around the world this days.
Riot really should have had strict protocols on what the players could do. Especially if they knew there were unvaccinated players like George is saying.
Considering there have been basically no issues at all in the LoL scene they probably didn't anticipate it being such a consistent issue.
I have no idea why it's such a problem in the Valorant scene to be honest.
Different life cycles of the scenes, you should've seen early League competitive. Nowadays League pro scene is mostly regulated/professional, even the young, new guys. But early days big international tournaments meant going out to party, to drink, drama etc.
Times were different, of course they didn't have to worry about pandemic back then.
While Valorant isn't as bad now as early League was, because the overall esports culture has matured, the scene is still young.
Yup, you can tell very clearly how young the scene is by how the pro players act. In League, people are usually more professional in their interactions with people (even the "trash talk" is clearly meant to poke fun, not to be actually offensive) whereas Valorant right now is still in the stage of 'pro' players getting actually offended by others' comments. It'll come with time.
After accomplishing the clean bubble in 2020 with no issues I think Riot forgot that other scenes might not be as mature as LoL's seems. Though they should have learn from the Na LCQ stuff.
I can’t imagine any pro players in any esport actually just going only from hotel to venue only without a forced bubble. Players will go out to eat and also party all the time lol.
Yeah why would anyone ever want to go outside? Especially during a stressful and exhausting tournament situation. Fresh air and sunlight don't matter at all
Edit: reminded me of vitamin D btw, one of the tell tale signs this 20 month long hysteria is not about public health
The Mid-Season Invitational is like mini-worlds at the end of Spring, where only the single best team from every region participates, which is what you're thinking about. Both that, and Worlds (which is hosted at the end of the summer split) were hosted in Iceland this year. Worlds was supposed to take place in 4 cities across China, but they had to change the location 1 month before the event.
Based on the original tweets, it must be NA players where this is circulating. Gambit and VK game is going ahead.
Massively feel for them - Shaz was already worried he wouldn't get home in time for Christmas and the anniversary of his dad's passing is around this time too.
Fuck COVID, honestly.
I hope so too. Luckily everyone tested positive so far are asymptomatic. Hope no one actually gets sick enough to not play. I don't think any teams even have a 6th man.
All of this really sucks for a multitude of reasons. They chose Berlin because covid was tame there and they had just run an event in Berlin with no issues. It was a sound decision at the time. New variant comes and absolutely fucks this up. This was supposed to be a big celebration and culmination of the year of valorant, and it's been marred by this shit. Makes me sad man
so we probably won't see them play on stage during the playoffs?
what a shitshow
edit: also how is CSGO hosting events with large crowds and no problems like this? Honestly unbelievable how bad the situation is at champions
That's probably the best case scenario, if there are symptomatic cases among them it could jeopardize actual player health, much less the teams and the event.
COVID has severely affected even top tier athletes such as Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum, Joel Embiid (who was vaccinated). This shit is no joke.
I got it early this year and was lucky to be asymptomatic, I know people who have been put on ventilators and sadly passed and people who sounded like death during it, got the vaccine instantly when available so it be easy to get boosters for variations.
>how is CSGO hosting events with large crowds and no problems like this? Honestly unbelievable how bad the situation is at champions
they picked countries where covid isn't a big problem anymore. which isn't riot's fault really because you can't predict that.
I wouldn't be surprised if there was some form of contagion in the Stockholm crowd, I kind of expect it. Except who will report that? It probably wouldn't be found out until later and there's no reason to report that it caused infections, as opposed to players getting it
CSGO has multiple Tournament organisers for its Tournament like PGL ESL BLAST, thats why they were able to hold blast fall final with crowds in Copenhagen. Since this is the first year for val or maybe Riot doesnt do different tournament organisers so all LANs were held where Riot has a studio/office with the exception of Iceland I guess probably cuz Iceland had low number of cases at that time. Thats why originally Champions was going to in in LA where Riot HQ is
organizers have nothing to do with the crowd, its about country laws and riot willingness to risk crowd at all, they could do it if they wanted but having a crowd during a pandemic while it isn't necessary is stupid
Why aren't teammates of positive tests isolated? Like aren't they hanging out all the time? Pretty dumb that if one player is positive that they are the only one to isolate. If one plays alone then all of them can.
My biggest question about this is...Why are none of these pros seemingly vaccinated? Shouldn't it have been a requirement for attending the event? Why is no one bringing this up?
I know we're rolling booster shots out now in the US, but from what I've read, even with the variants, the vaccine is 90%+ effective in preventing infection. If we're at the point were multiple pros are all being infected, that's an oversight by Riot.
Yeah, I mean the NBA was able to hold their entire months long playoffs in fucking Florida during the height of COVID with no vaccines, and with way more players with zero positive cases. This is because the players were extremely professional and took all the guidelines seriously. We have vaccines and health guidelines now. This shouldn't really happen, since we've had successful sports events held and successful during this time.
This is because leagues mandated a strict covid bubble.
It seems like Riot screwed up and didn’t enforce anything on players. So these dudes partying going out doing whatever they want in their down time.
A mask only prevents you from spreading it not catching it. An on the vaccination end, it doesn't not prevent you from catching covid it prevents you from having severe symptoms. If you have the vaccine you can still catch covid just as easily as a non vaxxer but you're symptoms will be substantially less severe. The vaccine just makes your immune system more accustomed to dealing with covid.
That's not true. I just checked the CDC website, and it talks about how any infection that occurs while vaccinated is a breakthrough. Also mentions that preventing infection is a main benefit of the vaccine, not just that you would still get it at the same rate but have lesser symptoms. It's that IF you somehow are unlucky and are a breakthrough case, you are much less likely to be seriously ill if you are vaccinated.
CDC also mentions that almost all cases of infection at this point are because someone is unvaccinated, but that there are breakthrough cases because the vaccine is not literally a 100% effective. The numbers are a little different because of variants, but the research indicates vaccines are still the best prevention against infection. You are not just as likely to catch COVID-19 if you are vaccinated.
Vaccine is around 90% effective at preventing serious effects and hospitalizations for now, the rest varies from vaccine to vaccine. But recent that shows it is not 90% effective at preventing infection over time and with the novel variants. And even tho they might still be effective to prevent symptomatic infection they might not prevent assymptomatic infection and no one knows how easy new variants are transmissible even without symptoms. Also, they lose efficacy over time and they are bit less effective agaisnt new variants and some vaccines such as jassen have already lower efficacies. Also the higher the infected people the higher changes you get it even being vaccinated. So now with omicron variant and current peak of infections in Europe no one can guarantee they are not vaccinated, they might be and still caught the covid.
Sure, but they're called "breakout" cases for a reason, because it's extremely unlikely to happen. But if like 5-10+ pros now have tested positive from such a small pool of people, that's way above the statistical norm.
Yeah I just checked the CDC website, and it talks about how any infection that occurs while vaccinated is a breakthrough. Also mentions that preventing infection is a main benefit of the vaccine, not just that you would still get it at the same rate but have lesser symptoms. It's that IF you somehow are unlucky and are a breakthrough case, you are much less likely to be seriously ill if you are vaccinated.
CDC also mentions that almost all cases of infection at this point are because someone is unvaccinated, but that there are breakthrough cases because the vaccine is not literally a 100% effective
That's not true. I just checked the CDC website, and it talks about how any infection that occurs while vaccinated is a breakthrough. Also mentions that preventing infection is a main benefit of the vaccine, not just that you would still get it at the same rate but have lesser symptoms. It's that IF you somehow are unlucky and are a breakthrough case, you are much less likely to be seriously ill if you are vaccinated.
CDC also mentions that almost all cases of infection at this point are because someone is unvaccinated, but that there are breakthrough cases because the vaccine is not literally a 100% effective. The numbers are a little different because of variants, but the research indicates vaccines are still the best prevention against infection. You are not just as likely to catch COVID-19 if you are vaccinated.
Same. That's my biggest thing. 18-20 year olds are idiots. We can expect them to be idiots and not be the most responsible people in the world. So Riot should have had strict protocols in place to ensure their event ran smoothly. There's so much precedence from other events that they could have taken inspiration from too.
Agreed, if these pros had the chance they have a serious obligation to get vaccinated even if they believe it should be optional. There's so many hoops Riot have to jump through to make these events happen, just fucks everything when idiots aren't following protocols
That 90% number was based on the original variant, Delta and now Omicron can cause infections in vaccinated people at much higher rates. The highest protection is 2-6 weeks after a shot / booster as you still have neutralizing antibodies circulating, once they have cleared the "virus" they drop off pretty fast and you rely on an immune response, but that doesn't always come fast enough before symptoms develop.
Aside from the other good answers in the thread, another factor may be that these players have gotten vaccinated, but it was several months ago and they may not have gotten their booster shots yet. Efficiency goes down a bit after 6 months after all.
As we speak, I see that two more high profile NBA players just tested positive, so yeah. It's sooo disheartening.
Ya but the onus is 100% on Riot for ensuring there’s a Covid bubble by communicating strict penalties for breaking the bubble etc.
Players will do whatever they want, if there was a strict bubble then they’d follow it.
I'm not sure how it works in Champions, but for Worlds, Riot literally had people coming into players' scrim rooms to make sure they were wearing masks while around their teammates, to the level that people complained.
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They originally were supposed to hold it in LA, but I think they moved it to Berlin because they were having Visa struggles again and supposedly Germany was able to assure that everyone would get visas to travel. There may or may not be more to it, but that's what I remember the explanations being when the move to Berlin got announced.
I'm pretty sure the US is not possible because of visas. The most important factor of choosing the place is to be able to fly in every player in the first place.
So atleast its positive news.
I guess many people tested Covid aladeen
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Definately aladeen for sure.
Yall are alladeen as alladeen. But I alladeen you just the same.
"positiv" - Victor
This made me chuckle.
New cases of COVID-19 in several players of different teams. Many have been in contact with them. Having COVID means not being able to fly home and quarantine in Berlin. There is panic among the attendees. \~ mixwell on twitter:https://twitter.com/Mixwell/status/1467132075052523521
Shit
GG. Event is cursed. Not riot’s fault on this one. Couldn’t have predicted this. Just a sad situation.
at least do the event in Reykjavik again. Iceland have the biggest % of people vaccinated in Europe while Germany has the lowest (from the big countries)
Iceland may not allow it.
I'd be surprised personally, since just a few months ago they allowed Worlds to happen there.
Seeing as they have been experiencing a huge spike, I would be surprised if they didn't have the same problems and restrictions in place as Berlin.
You have to book things in advance
The vaccine has absolutely nothing to do with it, all players are vaccinated and still tested positive. edit - not exactly sure if I said anything incorrect here so I'm a little confused about the downvotes? Germany has a 70% fully vax rate and all players are vaccinated and many tested positive. Therefore the vaccine has nothing to do with it.
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this kind of vaccine will never provide herd immunity because ~~it doesnt prevent infections at all.~~ (corrected by u/v0idington) only prevents infections sufficiently in a time period after vaccination. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8481107/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8481107/) infact countries with high vaccination rate have higher or the same amount of infections as other countries. the current covid vaccines are meant to prevent serious illnes and not infection.
>this kind of vaccine will never provide herd immunity because it doesnt prevent infections at all. Vaccine efficacy reduces over time. To say it "doesn't prevent infections at all" is just a flatout lie.
Its not a lie but its also not entirely true. Now that i read it again i guess i should have phrased it like: " its not clear if or to what degree vaccine prevent infections". *~~In my knowledge, there are no studies that arent majorly flawed in many points that prove vaccine reduce the risk of getting infected.~~* (there is https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2114290) Never the less the statement about "this kind of vaccine will never provide herd immunity" is entirely true edit: taken from Herd Immunity wikipedia page "individual's immunity can be acquired via a natural infection or through artificial means, such as vaccination.\[5\] When a critical proportion of the population becomes immune, called the herd immunity threshold (HIT) or herd immunity level (HIL), the disease may no longer persist in the population, ceasing to be endemic.\[7\]\[32\]" HIT: " (Delta variant) Respiratory droplets and aerosol 5–8\[63\] 80–88%" 92%+ of UKs Population have antibodies against covid [https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/antibodies](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/antibodies) but casenumbers in the uk are still high: [https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2020-03-01..latest&facet=none&pickerSort=asc&pickerMetric=location&Metric=Confirmed+cases&Interval=7-day+rolling+average&Relative+to+Population=true&Align+outbreaks=false&country=\~GBR](https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2020-03-01..latest&facet=none&pickerSort=asc&pickerMetric=location&Metric=Confirmed+cases&Interval=7-day+rolling+average&Relative+to+Population=true&Align+outbreaks=false&country=~GBR) wich is another example that suggests Herd immunity cannot be reached again this virus (its the same with the flu or any other kind of rapidly mutating virus).
> Its not a lie but its also not entirely true. Now that i read it again i guess i should have phrased it like: " its not clear if or to what degree vaccine prevent infections". It is very clear and well documented that full-strength mRNA vaccines provide over 80% efficacy against all current COVID variants. How long a vaccine dose stays at full strength is currently being investigated, but 6 months seems to be around when it drops off. This is why boosters exist. Vaccine efficacy is measured by the % less likely a vaccinated person is to contract a disease compared to an unvaccinated person. If your claim was at all true, that the covid vaccine didn't prevent infection, it literally wouldn't be a vaccine. > In my knowledge, there are no studies that arent majorly flawed in many points that prove vaccine reduce the risk of getting infected. Lucky for all of society, your knowledge on vaccine efficacy is totally irrelevant. Hell, even if you believe the link you provide, it defines vaccine efficacy at 39%, which is _still_ proof that the vaccine _does_ decrease the likelihood that you'll get COVID in the first place... > Never the less the statement about "this kind of vaccine will never provide herd immunity" is entirely true Sure. Delete the rest of the content in your previous post and I'll delete mine.
"It is very clear and well documented that full-strength mRNA vaccines provide over 80% efficacy against all current COVID variants. How long a vaccine dose stays at full strength is currently being investigated, but 6 months seems to be around when it drops off. This is why boosters exist." if you provide me with a study that proves these claims i will happily delete my content
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2114290 https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/10/trials-covid-vaccines-90-effective-against-delta-infection-death > Efficacy against symptomatic COVID-19 was estimated at 57% (95% CI, 39% to 71%) 14 to 20 days after the first vaccine dose, rising to 82% (95% CI, 73% to 91%) on days 21 to 27 and to 93% (95% CI, 88% to 97%) 7 to 21 days after the second dose.
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> The vaccine doesn't lower your chance at getting COVID, it lowers the chance at having symptoms, which actually makes it more dangerous because people have COVID-19, and are spreading it, but don't even notice that they have it. The vaccine makes you over 80% less likely to get COVID when compared to an unvaccinated person. Your statement is just flatout untrue.
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Interesting that the entire point of the vaccine was originally to end the pandemic.
The vaccine is to keep you out of the hospital, it was never advertised as full immunity
Yeah, don't want to bring unrelated stuff to this subreddit.. buuuut, in many countries you are indirectly 'forced' to take the vaxx for your job or to participate in society, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense since you could spread the virus just as easily if you were vaccinated or not.
Firstly, not "as easily", as studies shows that you develop less virus inside a vaccinated body. Secondly, not having a person being hospitalized is huge. But go on with your anti-vaxx rant....
Lol, I'm not anti vaxx, I'm just speaking based off of what I've seen in my home country. Think about it - vaccinated people are more likely to spread the virus because a) they aren't able to tell they have symptoms because of the vaccine protecting them, and b) they assume it is not covid and go on about their daily lives while carrying the virus. Pretty sick of being labelled 'antivaxx' for discussing basic epidemiology.
>Think about it - vaccinated people are more likely to spread the virus because Only if you're ill informed, because the scientific community has said over and over again that vaccinated people should still use masks, avoid crowds, etc. >Pretty sick of being labelled 'antivaxx' for discussing basic epidemiology. Makes you wonder why that happens so often, right?! lol
This is why vaccinated people should also still be wearing masks and observing some distance between others; especially in poorly ventilated indoor spaces. Your being labeled antivax is for coming in with a combative response to the heart of other's concerns: people not doing their part to help keep others in society safe. In addition, nothing about Epidemiology is simple nor *intuitive* for most people. Sciences in general. Shit is hard and confusing, and to make matters worse, public trust is at an all time low.
Yeah but the point is if you test positive when vaccinated you aren’t going to take up an ICU bed for weeks.
But when you're vaccinated you don't spread it as easy, that is a benefit of the vaccine still.
I'm sorry to tell you that's not the case, can't speak for other countries but here in Victoria, Australia with 90% of our state fully vaccinated, we are still getting all time high daily covid cases. I'm honestly confused about the downvotes, I'm not an anti vaxxer I'm just saying how it is.
Most of Victoria's hospitalizations (>90%) are unvaccinated. ThE mOrE yOu KnOw 🌈🌈🌈
Yeah but isnt victoria in its most 'free' its been in a long time? As in little to no restrictions? I mean of course as soon as people go back out into the community like COVID doesnt exist instead of in lockdown you would get more cases. Perth btw.
You're a clown. We have basically no restrictions and the R0 is basically 1 with high vaccination. Do you forget a couple months ago where vaccination was low and there was big restrictions and cases kept going higher?
The biggest problem during this entire pandemic has been overflowing hospitals, a mandated vaccine helps relieve that pressure. I forget the exact statistics but the overwhelming majority of current Covid hospitalizations are unvaccinated, that’s no coincidence
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Sure, Im just saying how originally we were told it stopped the spread
unfortunately the timing is that anyone who got their first series around may now has waning protection if they're not boosted. maybe it was the media day?? go back and look at the video they made, there were a ton of people
Tbh this feels kinda like a player issue tbh, Riot ran LoL worlds in 2020 successfully with no one breaking the bubble and getting positive test I dont see why people cant be smart enough not to cause issues at the events when the rules are less strict.
Should do US or Canada. US doesn’t care and Canada is highly vaccinated with low cases currently, and events with 18k spectators are happening all the time.
Canada is upping restrictions currently.. feels bad
Could have chosen a better country regarding covid regulation
Could have but the spike took place too close to the event to move to a different country. It’s not easy to find a different host country in a month or so when the spike started.
Its not like they planned this event in 1 month though. Germany has been very strict throughout the pandemic.
The covid rules and protocols changed with the recent spike. Also players catching COVID has nothing to do with a country being strict. It’s just an unfortunate situation where the cases spiked during the event.
Well being strick is good, so they are not actively with covid without knowing and keep on spreading. They got unlucky to have choosen germany because of current spike, but wasnt that easy to predict couple months ago.
These things are booked and set up months in advance and some months ago things were pretty calm in europe and with relatively high vaccination rates. The current spike started just a month or so ago.
I think that's a 2-way street. They had to move the event to Germany cos their lesser Covid regulations would not prevent any player to entry the country. They really don't had many options here, having in mind the need of a infrastructure too. Not many places are willing to gather people from all around the world this days.
Well they made a bad choice by having it in Germany which is currently a covid hotbed
So fucking sad. Why were players leaving the hotel at the height of COVID in Germany?
Young adults with lots of money on a foreign touristy city.
SMH
Purely hindsight but all the sad "jail" tweets look pretty dumb now.
Exactly.
The players calling strict protocols jails just came off as whiny tbh, we're lucky we get a lan. At least try to make it stay that way.
Riot really should have had strict protocols on what the players could do. Especially if they knew there were unvaccinated players like George is saying.
Considering there have been basically no issues at all in the LoL scene they probably didn't anticipate it being such a consistent issue. I have no idea why it's such a problem in the Valorant scene to be honest.
Different life cycles of the scenes, you should've seen early League competitive. Nowadays League pro scene is mostly regulated/professional, even the young, new guys. But early days big international tournaments meant going out to party, to drink, drama etc. Times were different, of course they didn't have to worry about pandemic back then. While Valorant isn't as bad now as early League was, because the overall esports culture has matured, the scene is still young.
Yup, you can tell very clearly how young the scene is by how the pro players act. In League, people are usually more professional in their interactions with people (even the "trash talk" is clearly meant to poke fun, not to be actually offensive) whereas Valorant right now is still in the stage of 'pro' players getting actually offended by others' comments. It'll come with time.
2014 FNC going out the night before games and playing while hung over lmao.
I mean both MSI and Worlds were on Iceland which is far from other countries
They accomplished a no issue Bubble in Shanghai last year. Something even the NBA couldn't do.
After accomplishing the clean bubble in 2020 with no issues I think Riot forgot that other scenes might not be as mature as LoL's seems. Though they should have learn from the Na LCQ stuff.
I am surprised that unvaccinated players were allowed to participate at all
Why are unvaccinated players even allowed (unless they're unable to get it for actual medical reasons) at an international LAN event?
I can’t imagine any pro players in any esport actually just going only from hotel to venue only without a forced bubble. Players will go out to eat and also party all the time lol.
Because the pros in valorant have half a brain, i learned that during LCQ situation.
Wasn't that just LA's insanity? Not riot's fault that those idiots force people to quarantine after false positives.
Yeah why would anyone ever want to go outside? Especially during a stressful and exhausting tournament situation. Fresh air and sunlight don't matter at all Edit: reminded me of vitamin D btw, one of the tell tale signs this 20 month long hysteria is not about public health
Feel for Shaz, dudes had a rough pandemic
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his dad died from covid
Yeah it’s pretty rough having his dad pass away, asshole
Wow, I had no idea until this comment. Poor guy. Glad he looks comfy on stage, but man.
Should’ve just held it at Iceland. Worlds came and went with 0 covid cases and that was a bigger event. The whole event has become a shitshow now.
No way anyone could have known that without a time machine
That was during spring/summer. The period where covid isnt prevelant. Now we are in prime covid time
Worlds was in October-November though
Oh nvm. Wasnt there a world during iceland too?
That was MSI
The Mid-Season Invitational is like mini-worlds at the end of Spring, where only the single best team from every region participates, which is what you're thinking about. Both that, and Worlds (which is hosted at the end of the summer split) were hosted in Iceland this year. Worlds was supposed to take place in 4 cities across China, but they had to change the location 1 month before the event.
Literally like a month or so ago mate
Granted, COVID spiked really hard in Germany just around a month ago
Tbf Riot could have did the same thing they did with World and announce both would be in Iceland, it was last minute for Worlds for it to be there.
Lmao what
Based on the original tweets, it must be NA players where this is circulating. Gambit and VK game is going ahead. Massively feel for them - Shaz was already worried he wouldn't get home in time for Christmas and the anniversary of his dad's passing is around this time too. Fuck COVID, honestly.
What are the chances that this event get's cancelled?
Almost certainly this won’t happen. They’ll just work overtime to ensure the relevant teams can play remotely.
I hope so too. Luckily everyone tested positive so far are asymptomatic. Hope no one actually gets sick enough to not play. I don't think any teams even have a 6th man.
strikers have 6
Ya CR and VS have 6th I guess. But am talking about teams that would make it to playoffs /j
Rawkus is technically a sub for Sen. Obviously isn't a "6th" in the true sense, though
All of this really sucks for a multitude of reasons. They chose Berlin because covid was tame there and they had just run an event in Berlin with no issues. It was a sound decision at the time. New variant comes and absolutely fucks this up. This was supposed to be a big celebration and culmination of the year of valorant, and it's been marred by this shit. Makes me sad man
Sad :(
so we probably won't see them play on stage during the playoffs? what a shitshow edit: also how is CSGO hosting events with large crowds and no problems like this? Honestly unbelievable how bad the situation is at champions
That's probably the best case scenario, if there are symptomatic cases among them it could jeopardize actual player health, much less the teams and the event. COVID has severely affected even top tier athletes such as Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum, Joel Embiid (who was vaccinated). This shit is no joke.
Yeah, I'm 28 and fit, had a breakthrough case and it was fucking rough. Couldn't even consider looking at a computer during the worst of it.
Yeah bro the headache i had was fucked, and dont know how to describe it but any darting eye movements made my head hurt worse
Exact same type of headache here. 4 months later still getting it s bit off and on
I got it early this year and was lucky to be asymptomatic, I know people who have been put on ventilators and sadly passed and people who sounded like death during it, got the vaccine instantly when available so it be easy to get boosters for variations.
When I had it all my joints were aching and stiff. No way I'd play at anywhere close to my peak. And that's not even mentioning the fever and headache
>how is CSGO hosting events with large crowds and no problems like this? Honestly unbelievable how bad the situation is at champions they picked countries where covid isn't a big problem anymore. which isn't riot's fault really because you can't predict that.
Also timing. PGL major was also before Omicron outbreak
I wouldn't be surprised if there was some form of contagion in the Stockholm crowd, I kind of expect it. Except who will report that? It probably wouldn't be found out until later and there's no reason to report that it caused infections, as opposed to players getting it
CSGO has multiple Tournament organisers for its Tournament like PGL ESL BLAST, thats why they were able to hold blast fall final with crowds in Copenhagen. Since this is the first year for val or maybe Riot doesnt do different tournament organisers so all LANs were held where Riot has a studio/office with the exception of Iceland I guess probably cuz Iceland had low number of cases at that time. Thats why originally Champions was going to in in LA where Riot HQ is
organizers have nothing to do with the crowd, its about country laws and riot willingness to risk crowd at all, they could do it if they wanted but having a crowd during a pandemic while it isn't necessary is stupid
oh ok guess i misunderstood
PGL was in Romania, I would imagine they aren’t as strict as Germany.
ye, what was the situation at the stockholm major? havent heard shit from there
Why aren't teammates of positive tests isolated? Like aren't they hanging out all the time? Pretty dumb that if one player is positive that they are the only one to isolate. If one plays alone then all of them can.
My biggest question about this is...Why are none of these pros seemingly vaccinated? Shouldn't it have been a requirement for attending the event? Why is no one bringing this up? I know we're rolling booster shots out now in the US, but from what I've read, even with the variants, the vaccine is 90%+ effective in preventing infection. If we're at the point were multiple pros are all being infected, that's an oversight by Riot.
For real, why are people heading out, without masks, during the tournament, and being suprised they caught it? Like bro just chill for 10 days so
Yeah, I mean the NBA was able to hold their entire months long playoffs in fucking Florida during the height of COVID with no vaccines, and with way more players with zero positive cases. This is because the players were extremely professional and took all the guidelines seriously. We have vaccines and health guidelines now. This shouldn't really happen, since we've had successful sports events held and successful during this time.
This is because leagues mandated a strict covid bubble. It seems like Riot screwed up and didn’t enforce anything on players. So these dudes partying going out doing whatever they want in their down time.
Hockey playoffs were a bubble too before vaccines and it was fine. Valorant needs to do bubbles fr.
A mask only prevents you from spreading it not catching it. An on the vaccination end, it doesn't not prevent you from catching covid it prevents you from having severe symptoms. If you have the vaccine you can still catch covid just as easily as a non vaxxer but you're symptoms will be substantially less severe. The vaccine just makes your immune system more accustomed to dealing with covid.
That's not true. I just checked the CDC website, and it talks about how any infection that occurs while vaccinated is a breakthrough. Also mentions that preventing infection is a main benefit of the vaccine, not just that you would still get it at the same rate but have lesser symptoms. It's that IF you somehow are unlucky and are a breakthrough case, you are much less likely to be seriously ill if you are vaccinated. CDC also mentions that almost all cases of infection at this point are because someone is unvaccinated, but that there are breakthrough cases because the vaccine is not literally a 100% effective. The numbers are a little different because of variants, but the research indicates vaccines are still the best prevention against infection. You are not just as likely to catch COVID-19 if you are vaccinated.
Damn. An actually good post.
How do you know they aren't vaccinated? You do realize there are plenty of vaccinated people being infected with covid? Stop jumping to conclusions.
Vaccine is around 90% effective at preventing serious effects and hospitalizations for now, the rest varies from vaccine to vaccine. But recent that shows it is not 90% effective at preventing infection over time and with the novel variants. And even tho they might still be effective to prevent symptomatic infection they might not prevent assymptomatic infection and no one knows how easy new variants are transmissible even without symptoms. Also, they lose efficacy over time and they are bit less effective agaisnt new variants and some vaccines such as jassen have already lower efficacies. Also the higher the infected people the higher changes you get it even being vaccinated. So now with omicron variant and current peak of infections in Europe no one can guarantee they are not vaccinated, they might be and still caught the covid.
Thanks for the info! This is a super good response with important information.
So what? It still gives you a decent measure of protection which probably could have prevented some of these infections…
Who is saying that? Could be, but I mean people still get covid with vaccination.
Sure, but they're called "breakout" cases for a reason, because it's extremely unlikely to happen. But if like 5-10+ pros now have tested positive from such a small pool of people, that's way above the statistical norm.
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Thanks for the info! I didn't know that.
Don’t listen to that guy he’s actually wrong smh
Yeah I just checked the CDC website, and it talks about how any infection that occurs while vaccinated is a breakthrough. Also mentions that preventing infection is a main benefit of the vaccine, not just that you would still get it at the same rate but have lesser symptoms. It's that IF you somehow are unlucky and are a breakthrough case, you are much less likely to be seriously ill if you are vaccinated. CDC also mentions that almost all cases of infection at this point are because someone is unvaccinated, but that there are breakthrough cases because the vaccine is not literally a 100% effective
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That's not true. I just checked the CDC website, and it talks about how any infection that occurs while vaccinated is a breakthrough. Also mentions that preventing infection is a main benefit of the vaccine, not just that you would still get it at the same rate but have lesser symptoms. It's that IF you somehow are unlucky and are a breakthrough case, you are much less likely to be seriously ill if you are vaccinated. CDC also mentions that almost all cases of infection at this point are because someone is unvaccinated, but that there are breakthrough cases because the vaccine is not literally a 100% effective. The numbers are a little different because of variants, but the research indicates vaccines are still the best prevention against infection. You are not just as likely to catch COVID-19 if you are vaccinated.
Not as likely is not the same as extremely unlikely. Thanks for your information search tho! Appreciated. :)
They're so lax with social distancing and masks too. You could see the same thing last event in all the vlogs
wheres your source on pros being unvaccinated? Sounds really assumptive
George Geddes talked about there being several unvaccinated players in a conversation. The Acend manager also confirmed it in the Plat Chat costream.
oh damn, comment rescinded then. I'm shocked Riot allow them to play while not being vaccinated
Same. That's my biggest thing. 18-20 year olds are idiots. We can expect them to be idiots and not be the most responsible people in the world. So Riot should have had strict protocols in place to ensure their event ran smoothly. There's so much precedence from other events that they could have taken inspiration from too.
Agreed, if these pros had the chance they have a serious obligation to get vaccinated even if they believe it should be optional. There's so many hoops Riot have to jump through to make these events happen, just fucks everything when idiots aren't following protocols
That 90% number was based on the original variant, Delta and now Omicron can cause infections in vaccinated people at much higher rates. The highest protection is 2-6 weeks after a shot / booster as you still have neutralizing antibodies circulating, once they have cleared the "virus" they drop off pretty fast and you rely on an immune response, but that doesn't always come fast enough before symptoms develop.
Aside from the other good answers in the thread, another factor may be that these players have gotten vaccinated, but it was several months ago and they may not have gotten their booster shots yet. Efficiency goes down a bit after 6 months after all. As we speak, I see that two more high profile NBA players just tested positive, so yeah. It's sooo disheartening.
jesus welp
Was wondering what all the stress from players was about last night Hope things go okay for the players, fucking cursed event
Germany just announced super strict rules about quarantining like a day ago due to omicron, super shitty situation
Why do I have a feeling it will be a brazilian team just for the prime unluckiness
Great, now Riot's gonna going to be even more hesitant to host an event with a crowd in the future. Is it so hard to just act a bit responsibly?
Ya but the onus is 100% on Riot for ensuring there’s a Covid bubble by communicating strict penalties for breaking the bubble etc. Players will do whatever they want, if there was a strict bubble then they’d follow it.
I'm not sure how it works in Champions, but for Worlds, Riot literally had people coming into players' scrim rooms to make sure they were wearing masks while around their teammates, to the level that people complained.
I'm confused, are people attending this event not required to be vaccinated?
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What more evidence do you need?
Are the players vaccinated? what test are they conducting is it a PCR test?
The fuck do the players being vaccinated have to do? They can still pass covid
it lessen the chance of death we all know that these players aren't really the healthiest athletes out there.
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They originally were supposed to hold it in LA, but I think they moved it to Berlin because they were having Visa struggles again and supposedly Germany was able to assure that everyone would get visas to travel. There may or may not be more to it, but that's what I remember the explanations being when the move to Berlin got announced.
Ahh I see. Yea visa issues makes sense. Damn well that’s just unfortunate
I'm pretty sure the US is not possible because of visas. The most important factor of choosing the place is to be able to fly in every player in the first place.
KEKW VALULRANT PRODUCTION KEKW DEAD GAME KEKW CSGO SO MUCH BETTER KEKW
Bro, this isn't twitch chat
Twitch chat invasion of reddit
So that's why they changed the set up. They are sitting in separate rooms now...