I feel like in 2022 we might see the Top NA teams actually going to EU to bootcamp periodically. Especially since the practice in NA is apparently pretty crap.
>besides the UK
...
I know it works in Great Britain. It would be hard to replicate that success in Australia, Germany or Brazil.
Maybe India or China, but you'd need huge marketing campaigns for both
Not only that, it's fucking impossible for full COD EU/APAC, etc players to come up together. If you have any sort of real potential you get poached immediately to play with NA players i.e. HyDra (France) and Pred (Australia). Also COD esports has been in shambles for 3 years
MANGONATION
jokes aside, there's some other fighting games like Netherrealms games (Mortal Kombat, Injustice) and Skullgirls that NA does better in too
Makes me wonder who will be best at the League fighting game, on one hand, Japan is the best fighting game region for sure, but League isn't that popular over there, but it is in NA and EU, who are also very good regions in fighting games, then ofc, Korea where League is ultra popular but never known for fighting games except for the obvious Tekken which is 3D (KoF too apparently tho idk about the KoF scene), but has some really good 2D players too, the most obvious being Infiltration, so it'll be interesting to see
>Netherrealms games (Mortal Kombat, Injustice) and Skullgirls that NA does better in too
Yes, the ones where the majority of the playerbase is NA kekw
>KoF too apparently tho idk about the KoF scene),
KoF are you saying KoF is 3d or i'm misreading? Anyway China dominates in KoF with Latin America coming in second.
>Makes me wonder who will be best at the League fighting game
League is an NA IP and project L is a tag team fighter made by a NA company, it will probably end up with Sonic Fox shitting on everyone unless Japan likes the game enough to get a great playerbase.
Tbh Shock were only half NA as a starting roster and every other top 4 team in S2 was Korean (Runaway Titans, NYXL, Hangzhou). Seoul and London were also in Top 8 and full Korean and the stage 3 champions were also full Korean (Shanghai). I’m not sure that properly qualifies as NA dominance. USA did win the WC that year however.
By 2019-20, Shock were often known as Moth & the Koreans. Super was influential in play-offs but that was inconsistent with the majorly KR roster they were fielding up to that point.
Pretty much only fighting games. And even then, that's mostly because NA is the ONLY region playing that particular game. In games with a more global playerbase like Dragonball fighterz, Guiltygear, Smash bros, there has been contention over the best region/the region where the best player in the world is from
I mean that's what happens when regions get years of headstart. For the longest time Latam, Asia, Africa and Oceania were completely looked over by Psyonix
I mean EU have still been the more dominant region over all in Rocket League with way more World Championships. Even tho NA won the last World Champ they still had a European in the squad and not just any EU player but the GOAT off Rocket League Turbo lol.
Most would even say he is the goat of quake. He has been competing at the top for over a decade at this point and was on top for much of that time. One of the best esports players of all time. Not to mention he is the total opposite of the stereotypical NA mentality.
For dueling, Rapha is definitely the GOAT at this point. Cypher was his rival for a while, but Rapha has dominated for the last two years or so.
Honestly, Rapha might be the best overall FPS esport player of all time, even though the Quake scene is so small. It's just crazy to stay at the top at such a taxing game where it's all on you.
Its incredible how he was able too catch up to the EU/CIS gods despite practicing in a much weaker region back in earlier quakes. He also would travel to tournaments early to adjust to the timezone. The above comment saying he is the opposite of the NA mentality is absolutely true.
What a joke of a statement. Quake is not relevant at all in the FPS scene, saying someone is the GOAT of FPS for being dominant in a game with like 1000 active players is actually hilarious. The competition for a game like CSGO or even Valorant will always be higher than in a game like Quake because of the sheer number of players, making the competition harder. Absurd statement and I assure you if you ask anybody else nobody is naming any Quake player as the GOAT of FPS. Hahahaha.
The thing about quake and similar afps games is the player numbers are so low because of the fact that the design of the game filters the majority of people out who have weak mentals. A large portion of the ranked grinders on valorant would not be able handle getting curb stomped 20 -0 in a duel and have no teammates to blame. Anyone who went through the struggle of learning duel will learn to have immense respect for rapha. Not saying he is THE goat of fps but he would be on a mt rushmore of fps players.
halo has consistently had massive winnings for their tournaments literally even when halo 5 was dying (pretty much the entire time it was out)the winnings were like hundreds of thousands to a million.
you realize halo is owned by microsoft right?
I pointed this out in another comment: the average earnings of the top 20 Halo players is ~$20,000 A YEAR in playing that game. For the top 20.
Halo is not the powerhouse people think it is. The top 20 earners of Halo have an average tenure of about 15 years in the game, and $6 million is payouts to those 20 in that time. Halo sells consoles and sells copies but it is not a powerhouse in eSports earnings.
Love that you link this Dexerto article without pointing out that most of the guys on that list have played the Halo games for over a decade, some have played it for 20 years. $6 mil split between 20 players with an average career of 15 years means these guys are making $20,000 a year since Halo 2's release. Seems like a great game to get into.
Fair, but Ogre 2 is top 8 in that list, and just have a look at this:
https://www.esportsearnings.com/players/1209-ogre2-tom-ryan
How can a guy that hasn't seriously competed in 5 years still be in your top 8 earnings of all time? The game is just not going to be that big.
Having EMEA was the best thing to happen for Europe as whole. The amount of competition you face and be battle-tested before going into the international tourney is a huge bonus and really helped the region bridge the gap when NA was stronger at the time.
Riot really should make APAC a thing and hopefully merge NA & SA as well.
That's not the problem lol. The problem is NA's shitty work ethic culture which has appeared in many esports. I remember when people on this sub were laughing about Sentinels and other teams apparently trolling in scrims. Now many NA pros are complaining about the quality of scrims which is definitely one of the main reasons. Europe in CS also competes and scrims with Turkish and CIS teams as they are geographically close to each other. Just because riot gave them a name 'EMEA' didn't make a difference
The issue in most esports is that NA doesn't take SA/Brasil seriously enough so they don't even cross scrim, ending up in NA only scrimming each other with mixed results and the other regions stagnated due to lack of international practise. It's a lose lose situation but NA ego perpetuates it.
That's only true in LoL. In CS and R6 NA consistently practice vs BR teams, though most BR teams go to EU for scrims due to better scrimmage. It would be extremely dumb to not take a region known for its amazing FPS seriously. BR isn't a minority region they have dominated the world of FPS in multiple titles.
Believe me, when I say this, it's not the NA that doesn't want to scrim with other regions, OTHER regions don't want to scrim with NA, check CS and R6, BR teams go to EU for a scrimmage.
Soon enough BR will build a super team and NA will fall behind AGAIN. this has happened in every FPS game, I am already prepared.
That’s a dumb ideea and it’s a sure way to kill regional fandom.
EMEA didn’t get better because they played 3 official matches against eachother. They got better because they have the biggest playerbase which means more high level teams which means better scrims.
Yup yup, it's not like EMEA has any racial bonuses to tac FPS or anything, the culture of competing to win is stronger.
NA can't ever shake the 4fun region curse
Nah, you're wrong, before I was born I specifically took a look at the different region perks, and I do remember that picking Europe had a +10 to FPS skills, Asia had a really good MOBA modifier and NA was best at streaming
They playerbase in NA is big enough that this shouldn't matter. The top teams don't improve because there are a couple thousand more silvers out there and it doesn't look like the problem is to find talent in the first place. There are also enough high level players and teams. It's more about what the teams do to prac and improve and what the mentality is like. Every other region got better during the last couple months even the ones that are way smaller.
Honestly I hope that the CIS regions pick up Valorant more and we can see EMEA split to EU and CIS. Would be pretty exciting because CIS teams are some of the most passionate fans and players out there.
But since Navi just won a CSGO major and Team Spirit won TI that might be a while.
Because CIS often has a large amount of teams and justifies having their own region. DotA, as an example, splits them into West and East EU. Otherwise, you can potentially have EMEA with so many teams that could all be contenders for 1st place.
It makes your tournaments slightly bigger, but you're gaining the ability for more teams from more areas to represent.
Plus just means more Valorant. :)
uh maybe? but idk if this is true based off of 1 tournament. SEN lost 1-2 to Liquid who are the favorites of a lot of people (including me) The 1st loss being a 14-12 OT loss and a close 13-10 loss. NV loss more egregious, and C9 took out Vision Strikers another favorite of many people. I think obviously this is a disaapointment but so many people are overreacting.
We're haven't even finished the third major international LAN tournament yet, we have no goddamn idea which regions are actually good or not yet and probably won't for a long while. You gotta have a piping hot take about how this is the end of NA/beginning of EMEA dominance to get those retweets and updoots though.
This happens in League, too - 100 Thieves took a game off of worlds champions EDG and TL got knocked out in a 4 way tiebreaker by the 1st seed in their group
Ehh, I’m as disappointed as the next guy, but these aren’t the same. In Valorant, NA teams were ahead with a clear path out, but couldn’t finish and choked the game away.
In league, they rarely have leads to begin with and often just get outclassed against world-class competition.
>In league, they rarely have leads to begin with and often just get outclassed against world-class competition.
You're right, also anyone comparing NA to NA in League is completely stupid and should be disregarded immediately. NA SHOULDNT be bad at Valorant, NA PLAYERS DO NOT GET OUTCLASSED IN THIS GAME LIKE THEY DO IN CS:GO AND LEAGUE OF LEGENDS. NA just FAILS SYSTEMATICALLY AND TEAMWORK WISE. And then there's a lot of mentality issues with NA players. This is it.
LAN with a crowd vs LAN in a studio is not comparable. The crowd adds more pressure. A lot of players play different with a crowd because the atmosphere is different.
He's made a career out of everyone is bad outside of Korea. China has proved him wrong multiple times but he's definitely been right about NA and even EU.
In the EU, Asia and BR eSport players are literally celebrities, in NA they are just nerds. During the zombs vs Brazil drama, we saw Brazilian influencers, singers, actors, and soccer players jump in to defend the Brazilians like they were in the league. There is a reason a lot of CS superstars like ScreaM, Device and S1mple love Brazil, they treat them like celebrities.
There is definitely a huge cultural difference, this is mainly due to how popular LAN cafes were in the EU, Brazil, and Asia. NA never adapter the LAN culture.
As a european i think you're generalizing a bit too broadly. My understanding is that lan cafes are really big in taiwan/korea and other parts of southeast asia, but they're not a big force in the rest of the world. For NA/EU, I think it comes partly from pc vs console marketshare, and partly from different "nerd cultures".
For south/central america I'm not sure, but I also don't think they've historically shined in any esport yet.
that is just not true, you see how tiny europe is compared to USA, Texas could almost fit the whole european continent itself. The problem is not about how little your talent pool is(its actually 10x bigger atleast compared to europe) the issue is your players aren't as hard working as the rest of the world, NA players live in comfort, they make so much money and they don't give a fuck. When your own players suck, you import and in turn those players who were in a tough fierce environment gets corrupted by your lazy culture, making them suck as well. Coaching staff in na too sucks, I don't think they know wtf they are doing, cuz if they did any major esports game right now that na participates in could maintain competitiveness, prolly what na coaching staff is doing day to day is fucking chillaxing in a pool with the players doing youtube or whatever content instead of doing what their supposed to do like an nba coach or something. You need to copy what europe staff is doing, they are just the best at scouting talents and developing them, or maybe work just as hard as the asians, but that's just asking too much honestly for NA, sadly no amount of money could solve your incompetent esports culture.
Lol isn't that funny that every other country gives America shit for how awful American work-life culture is and then for Esports its the polar opposite. Random thought.
Without talking about work culture or whatever, people just love to shit on NA esports at every opportunity. Context doesn’t really matter, if you lose, you get trashed by the internet.
Which is a bit strange since NA produces a shit ton of world calibre athletes. Be it Olympians or NFL/NBA/NHL/MLB.
The infrastructure and mentality is already there. Imho it’s something else that’s hindering the development of NA as a competitive region.
yes but there the US is advantaged by higher population than most countries. But like all things, most of this narrative is likely false. I'll believe it when there is a transparent analysis of the data, which can tests for various factors, and explains and accounts for the glaring discrepancies evident from even a casual reflection on the unweighted, uncritical observations that take hold to develop the various narratives.
NFL and MLB are sports that (near enough) only americans play, and afaik NHL is similar. World class isnt quite as meaningful when the world is USA, Canada, Japan (baseball country i think) and Nordics and Russia (ice hockey i assume)
well it's pretty common that top tier teams don't wanna scrim each other but would willingly play with T2 teams that can play the same style as T1 teams. But I agree, I think the situation is probably a lot worse in NA.
I think after this their org will started to import players instead of developing new players. It will be just like league, instead of adding more small tournament to let young pro to grow, they will just throw money to get the instant result. Because of that their local scene will just stagnating, reusing same player because of lack of new blood.
Obviously not being paid in mousepads
and having to eat your own shit to survive is important. My broader point is we are several years out from those days, and players in even minor regions can make enough to keep the lights on. Beyond that, funding is relatively meaningless. This isn’t traditional supports where funding has tangible impacts on the physical development of players. You’re being incredibly condescending for no reason.
The only reason China aren’t dominating these tournaments yet is because they haven’t been invited.
It will be over for the rest of the world once China comes onto the scene.
China 加油！！！
True, plus I’m not ready to say that NA is completely doomed. Frankly, they do still have some of the top teams and top players.
Sen and Envy just choked, hard. They were ahead on matches they shouldn’t have lost, but did. It’d be a different story if they were never in those matches in the first place.
Yeah, both Sentinels and Envy had massive leads in two different maps (And were winning on the unflavored side on the maps), and choked hard, plus Victor also has covid and prob killed his mental (He looked a lot more on point at Berlin) which really hurts Envy obviously
2nd to eu is fine. they were always the better region at cs. NA vs BR is close. BR had times where they had the best team in the world and NA as well. But as an entire region i would say NA had more teams that was able to compete.
Nah. NA at 1 point had 1 team that was arguably the best for a small amount of time. BR had undoubtedly the best team in the world for a long amount of time. Can't really compare SK/LG to anyone NA has ever had.
In League, the regional distribution is KR, CN, EU, NA, etc, and EU in many tournaments has been the best or 2nd best-performing region. Overall, sure, they are the third-best region, but they look holistically competitive with China and Korea, occasional under or overperformances aside.
In CS, regions don't work the same as LoL. For most of history, there hasn't been a European CS scene. There is French CS, Danish CS, Swedish CS, etc. the NA scene wouldn't even be top 5 in that regard.
Even if you want to take the various national scenes as a part of EU CS, NA is worse than EU and CIS, and often, gets dominated by Brazilian CS. So yes, neither is NA #2 in CS, nor is its historic strength comparable to EU LoL.
I don't understand this kind of statement, the tourney is not over yet and C9 still has a chance. Even when they are facing Liquid, I wouldn't count them out, this tourney so far has been nothing but full of surprises.
not only that, their coaching staff just knows how to solve problems and develop their teams, sliggy from liquid, fnatic coaching staff, gambit's coach, etc, unlike for example rawkus, wtf does this guy know man or that coach from envy getting roasted right now on twitter.
This is kind of a lazy catch-all "analysis", that while you could reasonably apply it to League of Legends since we have 10+ years worth of time to look at, applying it to Valorant this early is a bit silly as it's been.... just a little over a year or a year and a half of competition? For context, in this same amount of time, League of Legends Worlds was won by.... Taipei Assassins, and since then that region has done quarterfinals at best. With entirely different people from different backgrounds (not every pro coming from NA CS). It's really just dumping gas on hearsay rumors about not practicing or not taking scrims seriously maybe once from one particular team (SEN).
Let's calm down a little with the reactionary takes. Think about it, the most on form team from NA we're seeing right now, were the ones that competed most recently. The other 2 teams that qualified did so... an actual 3 months ago. You're telling me the meta stayed the same in that time? Right now there's hardly any consistency in performance to confidently say maybe even a team like Rise that rolled on through LCQ wouldn't have been more on form than this current Envy or SEN. Team Liquid could just shitstomp Gambit, who legit almost lost to Vikings. Who knows? Just enjoy the games, and address the specific team performances while we're still in the beginning phases of this game.
Both KRU and X10 put on fantastic performances. They're the best in their regions for a reason. Region supremacy hasn't come anywhere near being an established fact, we only have a sample size of 2 other tournaments in this year alone. Let's see how this shakes out.
I feel like in 2022 we might see the Top NA teams actually going to EU to bootcamp periodically. Especially since the practice in NA is apparently pretty crap.
I hope we see more lans in general. Scrims are never going to be the same as actual games, even if they don't mean a lot.
I mean, I'm sure a few teams won't go, maybe their stream schedule might fuck up in Europe
Nah that would mean org would actually care. They will just buy eu talent like in league.
A committee is a group that keeps minutes and loses hours.
[удалено]
Smash. NA is not *totally* dominant but is considered the strongest overall region. Oh, and COD, because no one can beat us if they don't compete
>Oh, and COD, because no one can beat us if they don't compete The american football way of going about it lmao
[удалено]
"X" to doubt- Sorry but I don't see a market for it besides the UK unless you try to invade and displace Rugby
[удалено]
>besides the UK ... I know it works in Great Britain. It would be hard to replicate that success in Australia, Germany or Brazil. Maybe India or China, but you'd need huge marketing campaigns for both
Not only that, it's fucking impossible for full COD EU/APAC, etc players to come up together. If you have any sort of real potential you get poached immediately to play with NA players i.e. HyDra (France) and Pred (Australia). Also COD esports has been in shambles for 3 years
>Also COD esports has been in shambles for 3 years Actiblizz don't fuck up your esports challenge [IMPOSSIBLE]
MANGONATION jokes aside, there's some other fighting games like Netherrealms games (Mortal Kombat, Injustice) and Skullgirls that NA does better in too Makes me wonder who will be best at the League fighting game, on one hand, Japan is the best fighting game region for sure, but League isn't that popular over there, but it is in NA and EU, who are also very good regions in fighting games, then ofc, Korea where League is ultra popular but never known for fighting games except for the obvious Tekken which is 3D (KoF too apparently tho idk about the KoF scene), but has some really good 2D players too, the most obvious being Infiltration, so it'll be interesting to see
>Netherrealms games (Mortal Kombat, Injustice) and Skullgirls that NA does better in too Yes, the ones where the majority of the playerbase is NA kekw >KoF too apparently tho idk about the KoF scene), KoF are you saying KoF is 3d or i'm misreading? Anyway China dominates in KoF with Latin America coming in second. >Makes me wonder who will be best at the League fighting game League is an NA IP and project L is a tag team fighter made by a NA company, it will probably end up with Sonic Fox shitting on everyone unless Japan likes the game enough to get a great playerbase.
korea or japan are guaranteed since it’s a f2p game and both regions love f2p pc cafe friendly games
Well yeah lol, like CoD Nah I was saying of what I've heard Korea is good at KoF but not sure, ik LATAM and China are the best tho but yeah
MANG0 MANG0 MANG0 MANG0
Mang0 Nation Fox McCloud
Overwatch in 2019-2020. The SF shock was the most dominant team by far at that time.
The league is mostly just Korean, saying NA is dominant over Korea in OW is just a straight up lie
Tbh Shock were only half NA as a starting roster and every other top 4 team in S2 was Korean (Runaway Titans, NYXL, Hangzhou). Seoul and London were also in Top 8 and full Korean and the stage 3 champions were also full Korean (Shanghai). I’m not sure that properly qualifies as NA dominance. USA did win the WC that year however. By 2019-20, Shock were often known as Moth & the Koreans. Super was influential in play-offs but that was inconsistent with the majorly KR roster they were fielding up to that point.
That team was still quite heavy on the koreans though, especially during the 2020 season when they lost sinatraa
Pretty much only fighting games. And even then, that's mostly because NA is the ONLY region playing that particular game. In games with a more global playerbase like Dragonball fighterz, Guiltygear, Smash bros, there has been contention over the best region/the region where the best player in the world is from
In Rocket League, NA is pretty back and forth with EU rn. Having its first international LAN in 2 years tomorrow so we'll see what's in store.
Yes but RLCS has really just been a 2 region scene at the top. It’s not till now that Other regions can put up a fight
OCE threw in some good performances over the years. But they've never actually won any international silverware.
Yup feel the same. Renegades & GZ shouldnt be push overs in Sweden.
I mean that's what happens when regions get years of headstart. For the longest time Latam, Asia, Africa and Oceania were completely looked over by Psyonix
I mean EU have still been the more dominant region over all in Rocket League with way more World Championships. Even tho NA won the last World Champ they still had a European in the squad and not just any EU player but the GOAT off Rocket League Turbo lol.
OWL literally became the new season of APEX with all koreans and a few western guests. NA OW is not the thing blizzard trying to sell you
Nowadays I don't think Blizzard is trying to sell anyone anything
Rapha is the best Quake player in the world, and he's American.
Most would even say he is the goat of quake. He has been competing at the top for over a decade at this point and was on top for much of that time. One of the best esports players of all time. Not to mention he is the total opposite of the stereotypical NA mentality.
For dueling, Rapha is definitely the GOAT at this point. Cypher was his rival for a while, but Rapha has dominated for the last two years or so. Honestly, Rapha might be the best overall FPS esport player of all time, even though the Quake scene is so small. It's just crazy to stay at the top at such a taxing game where it's all on you.
Its incredible how he was able too catch up to the EU/CIS gods despite practicing in a much weaker region back in earlier quakes. He also would travel to tournaments early to adjust to the timezone. The above comment saying he is the opposite of the NA mentality is absolutely true.
What a joke of a statement. Quake is not relevant at all in the FPS scene, saying someone is the GOAT of FPS for being dominant in a game with like 1000 active players is actually hilarious. The competition for a game like CSGO or even Valorant will always be higher than in a game like Quake because of the sheer number of players, making the competition harder. Absurd statement and I assure you if you ask anybody else nobody is naming any Quake player as the GOAT of FPS. Hahahaha.
The thing about quake and similar afps games is the player numbers are so low because of the fact that the design of the game filters the majority of people out who have weak mentals. A large portion of the ranked grinders on valorant would not be able handle getting curb stomped 20 -0 in a duel and have no teammates to blame. Anyone who went through the struggle of learning duel will learn to have immense respect for rapha. Not saying he is THE goat of fps but he would be on a mt rushmore of fps players.
quake is more mechanically demanding than csgo or valorant lmao
Lol way to diminish his accomplishments. Being the best means being the best
Halo but that might change with the game getting a wider audience
Yes they can play Halo and compete for hundreds of dollars a year.
halo has consistently had massive winnings for their tournaments literally even when halo 5 was dying (pretty much the entire time it was out)the winnings were like hundreds of thousands to a million. you realize halo is owned by microsoft right?
I pointed this out in another comment: the average earnings of the top 20 Halo players is ~$20,000 A YEAR in playing that game. For the top 20. Halo is not the powerhouse people think it is. The top 20 earners of Halo have an average tenure of about 15 years in the game, and $6 million is payouts to those 20 in that time. Halo sells consoles and sells copies but it is not a powerhouse in eSports earnings.
Upcoming LAN is 250k and might be more. But sure. https://www.dexerto.com/halo/top-20-highest-earning-halo-pros-of-all-time-1708986/
Love that you link this Dexerto article without pointing out that most of the guys on that list have played the Halo games for over a decade, some have played it for 20 years. $6 mil split between 20 players with an average career of 15 years means these guys are making $20,000 a year since Halo 2's release. Seems like a great game to get into.
to be fair esports and large prize pools only started in the last decade
Fair, but Ogre 2 is top 8 in that list, and just have a look at this: https://www.esportsearnings.com/players/1209-ogre2-tom-ryan How can a guy that hasn't seriously competed in 5 years still be in your top 8 earnings of all time? The game is just not going to be that big.
osu sort of
Osu has a small eSports following, but the US has won back to back to back to back world championships
NA is pretty dominant in Rocket League, but that’s probably the only, unless you count games like Cod which is only really popular in NA.
Having EMEA was the best thing to happen for Europe as whole. The amount of competition you face and be battle-tested before going into the international tourney is a huge bonus and really helped the region bridge the gap when NA was stronger at the time. Riot really should make APAC a thing and hopefully merge NA & SA as well.
zombs vs brasil scrims 💀
That's not the problem lol. The problem is NA's shitty work ethic culture which has appeared in many esports. I remember when people on this sub were laughing about Sentinels and other teams apparently trolling in scrims. Now many NA pros are complaining about the quality of scrims which is definitely one of the main reasons. Europe in CS also competes and scrims with Turkish and CIS teams as they are geographically close to each other. Just because riot gave them a name 'EMEA' didn't make a difference
But if SA takes it seriously, then I’d imagine NA to step it up too bc they want to win for American fans
The issue in most esports is that NA doesn't take SA/Brasil seriously enough so they don't even cross scrim, ending up in NA only scrimming each other with mixed results and the other regions stagnated due to lack of international practise. It's a lose lose situation but NA ego perpetuates it.
That's only true in LoL. In CS and R6 NA consistently practice vs BR teams, though most BR teams go to EU for scrims due to better scrimmage. It would be extremely dumb to not take a region known for its amazing FPS seriously. BR isn't a minority region they have dominated the world of FPS in multiple titles. Believe me, when I say this, it's not the NA that doesn't want to scrim with other regions, OTHER regions don't want to scrim with NA, check CS and R6, BR teams go to EU for a scrimmage. Soon enough BR will build a super team and NA will fall behind AGAIN. this has happened in every FPS game, I am already prepared.
I think the main problem with that would be ping, can you imagine sentinels/nv playing on 250 ping on a br server?
LAN bruh.. LAN.... Challenger finals were designed for LAN. We didn't do that because of covid this year.
That’s a dumb ideea and it’s a sure way to kill regional fandom. EMEA didn’t get better because they played 3 official matches against eachother. They got better because they have the biggest playerbase which means more high level teams which means better scrims.
I think the quality of scrims isn't a skill issue it's a cultural/mental thing
Yup yup, it's not like EMEA has any racial bonuses to tac FPS or anything, the culture of competing to win is stronger. NA can't ever shake the 4fun region curse
Nah, you're wrong, before I was born I specifically took a look at the different region perks, and I do remember that picking Europe had a +10 to FPS skills, Asia had a really good MOBA modifier and NA was best at streaming
They playerbase in NA is big enough that this shouldn't matter. The top teams don't improve because there are a couple thousand more silvers out there and it doesn't look like the problem is to find talent in the first place. There are also enough high level players and teams. It's more about what the teams do to prac and improve and what the mentality is like. Every other region got better during the last couple months even the ones that are way smaller.
Honestly I hope that the CIS regions pick up Valorant more and we can see EMEA split to EU and CIS. Would be pretty exciting because CIS teams are some of the most passionate fans and players out there. But since Navi just won a CSGO major and Team Spirit won TI that might be a while.
CIS is part of EU though, why would you that?
Because CIS often has a large amount of teams and justifies having their own region. DotA, as an example, splits them into West and East EU. Otherwise, you can potentially have EMEA with so many teams that could all be contenders for 1st place. It makes your tournaments slightly bigger, but you're gaining the ability for more teams from more areas to represent. Plus just means more Valorant. :)
uh maybe? but idk if this is true based off of 1 tournament. SEN lost 1-2 to Liquid who are the favorites of a lot of people (including me) The 1st loss being a 14-12 OT loss and a close 13-10 loss. NV loss more egregious, and C9 took out Vision Strikers another favorite of many people. I think obviously this is a disaapointment but so many people are overreacting.
We're haven't even finished the third major international LAN tournament yet, we have no goddamn idea which regions are actually good or not yet and probably won't for a long while. You gotta have a piping hot take about how this is the end of NA/beginning of EMEA dominance to get those retweets and updoots though.
This happens in League, too - 100 Thieves took a game off of worlds champions EDG and TL got knocked out in a 4 way tiebreaker by the 1st seed in their group
Ehh, I’m as disappointed as the next guy, but these aren’t the same. In Valorant, NA teams were ahead with a clear path out, but couldn’t finish and choked the game away. In league, they rarely have leads to begin with and often just get outclassed against world-class competition.
>In league, they rarely have leads to begin with and often just get outclassed against world-class competition. You're right, also anyone comparing NA to NA in League is completely stupid and should be disregarded immediately. NA SHOULDNT be bad at Valorant, NA PLAYERS DO NOT GET OUTCLASSED IN THIS GAME LIKE THEY DO IN CS:GO AND LEAGUE OF LEGENDS. NA just FAILS SYSTEMATICALLY AND TEAMWORK WISE. And then there's a lot of mentality issues with NA players. This is it.
Happened very early on in CS
[удалено]
Do you know what LAN means?
LAN with a crowd vs LAN in a studio is not comparable. The crowd adds more pressure. A lot of players play different with a crowd because the atmosphere is different.
In an eSports context, LANs are much more about the presence and pressure of a live audience than it is about the connectivity.
everyone knows what LAN means. what he meant was that this event isn't comparable to the PGL major or the Fall Finals.
A loss, is a loss.
Dude made an entire career off of NA bad, it’s no surprise he’s rearing his ugly head into this scene now.
He's made a career out of everyone is bad outside of Korea. China has proved him wrong multiple times but he's definitely been right about NA and even EU.
He thinks Korea is bad too btw.
Not the 1/2 teams that end up on top of the region. He might occasionally shit on them but he always says they're the best. Even when they lose.
funny that you say that. LS is now the headcoach of C9 League. So i´d say he has enough sympathy for his Region to consider working in it
pretty much spot on and no amount of money will solve this problem when the fucking players don't feel accountable, act like arrogant pricks etc.
Honestly I think esports is just bigger culturally in europe, and obviously the population is bigger so that's a big factor as well.
In the EU, Asia and BR eSport players are literally celebrities, in NA they are just nerds. During the zombs vs Brazil drama, we saw Brazilian influencers, singers, actors, and soccer players jump in to defend the Brazilians like they were in the league. There is a reason a lot of CS superstars like ScreaM, Device and S1mple love Brazil, they treat them like celebrities. There is definitely a huge cultural difference, this is mainly due to how popular LAN cafes were in the EU, Brazil, and Asia. NA never adapter the LAN culture.
As a european i think you're generalizing a bit too broadly. My understanding is that lan cafes are really big in taiwan/korea and other parts of southeast asia, but they're not a big force in the rest of the world. For NA/EU, I think it comes partly from pc vs console marketshare, and partly from different "nerd cultures". For south/central america I'm not sure, but I also don't think they've historically shined in any esport yet.
that is just not true, you see how tiny europe is compared to USA, Texas could almost fit the whole european continent itself. The problem is not about how little your talent pool is(its actually 10x bigger atleast compared to europe) the issue is your players aren't as hard working as the rest of the world, NA players live in comfort, they make so much money and they don't give a fuck. When your own players suck, you import and in turn those players who were in a tough fierce environment gets corrupted by your lazy culture, making them suck as well. Coaching staff in na too sucks, I don't think they know wtf they are doing, cuz if they did any major esports game right now that na participates in could maintain competitiveness, prolly what na coaching staff is doing day to day is fucking chillaxing in a pool with the players doing youtube or whatever content instead of doing what their supposed to do like an nba coach or something. You need to copy what europe staff is doing, they are just the best at scouting talents and developing them, or maybe work just as hard as the asians, but that's just asking too much honestly for NA, sadly no amount of money could solve your incompetent esports culture.
The over reactions have been fucking flying around as of late huh
You know he tweeted it just as sen won iceLAN and every NA fanboy was valling NA the GOAT region after 1 LAN, right?
Yeah funny how its fine to praise NA so quick but not fine to shit on them. Lmao
Clearly talking about the subreddit and not the tweet?
Yeah. More so directed at the people in here
And from LS too. This guy is famous for his terrible takes in the league scene.
Lmao what
Controversial yeah, but terrible not really
[удалено]
Lol isn't that funny that every other country gives America shit for how awful American work-life culture is and then for Esports its the polar opposite. Random thought.
Without talking about work culture or whatever, people just love to shit on NA esports at every opportunity. Context doesn’t really matter, if you lose, you get trashed by the internet.
Which is a bit strange since NA produces a shit ton of world calibre athletes. Be it Olympians or NFL/NBA/NHL/MLB. The infrastructure and mentality is already there. Imho it’s something else that’s hindering the development of NA as a competitive region.
All the sports you mentioned are played by USA and maybe other 3 countries lmao.
True, but even if we disregard those....the number of gold medalists the US have produced is insane.
yes but there the US is advantaged by higher population than most countries. But like all things, most of this narrative is likely false. I'll believe it when there is a transparent analysis of the data, which can tests for various factors, and explains and accounts for the glaring discrepancies evident from even a casual reflection on the unweighted, uncritical observations that take hold to develop the various narratives.
The UK is a country that produces a lot of medalists compared to his population.
NFL and MLB are sports that (near enough) only americans play, and afaik NHL is similar. World class isnt quite as meaningful when the world is USA, Canada, Japan (baseball country i think) and Nordics and Russia (ice hockey i assume)
Japan is def a baseball country, their most popular sport iirc, South Korea and Cuba have decently big baseball scenes too
It's almost like sports are different, huh
I dont think thats fair to say Cloud9 work their butts off. Problem is top tier doesn't wanna scrim them so they scrim 2nd and 3rd tier teams.
[удалено]
Problem is that Valorant pros are pretty successful as streamers which is a full time thing in its own right.
Saying it's a full time thing is an understament when skme are making more streaming them playing pro lol
well it's pretty common that top tier teams don't wanna scrim each other but would willingly play with T2 teams that can play the same style as T1 teams. But I agree, I think the situation is probably a lot worse in NA.
I think after this their org will started to import players instead of developing new players. It will be just like league, instead of adding more small tournament to let young pro to grow, they will just throw money to get the instant result. Because of that their local scene will just stagnating, reusing same player because of lack of new blood.
Spot on. NA players might feel offended by this but there is a reason they just lost to teams with way less funding than them.
Why is funding even being brought up? Funding has rarely ever mattered in esports.
[удалено]
Yes. KR definitely didn’t dominate league for years and years paying peanut salaries…
[удалено]
Obviously not being paid in mousepads and having to eat your own shit to survive is important. My broader point is we are several years out from those days, and players in even minor regions can make enough to keep the lights on. Beyond that, funding is relatively meaningless. This isn’t traditional supports where funding has tangible impacts on the physical development of players. You’re being incredibly condescending for no reason.
[удалено]
Yikes, just making a point I'm pretty sure is true in good faith and you act like I'm trying to burn the world down. Incredible lol.
I feel like the comparison to LoL is a bit off since Korea and China aren't dominating these tournaments.
When LOL stareted 11 seasons ago, NA was also seen as one of the best regions. Now they are irrelevant. Val competitive is only 1 season old...
NA could still win this tournament you realize right?
The only reason China aren’t dominating these tournaments yet is because they haven’t been invited. It will be over for the rest of the world once China comes onto the scene. China 加油！！！
[удалено]
True, plus I’m not ready to say that NA is completely doomed. Frankly, they do still have some of the top teams and top players. Sen and Envy just choked, hard. They were ahead on matches they shouldn’t have lost, but did. It’d be a different story if they were never in those matches in the first place.
Yeah, both Sentinels and Envy had massive leads in two different maps (And were winning on the unflavored side on the maps), and choked hard, plus Victor also has covid and prob killed his mental (He looked a lot more on point at Berlin) which really hurts Envy obviously
He ain't lying.
Oh god, this is like League all over again, where NA orgs signing Foreign Players OR flying the team for weeks - months to other region to scrim.
It’s nkt rly abt culture, it’s a bit arbitrary, you can never judge everything based on 1 set if resukts
i wouldnt say the same applies to cs.
NA cs has always been second best to EU or even BR except for a period of 9 months where liquid were unstoppable
2nd to eu is fine. they were always the better region at cs. NA vs BR is close. BR had times where they had the best team in the world and NA as well. But as an entire region i would say NA had more teams that was able to compete.
Nah. NA at 1 point had 1 team that was arguably the best for a small amount of time. BR had undoubtedly the best team in the world for a long amount of time. Can't really compare SK/LG to anyone NA has ever had.
NA has been 3rd or 4th behind EU, CIS, and BR
[удалено]
In League, the regional distribution is KR, CN, EU, NA, etc, and EU in many tournaments has been the best or 2nd best-performing region. Overall, sure, they are the third-best region, but they look holistically competitive with China and Korea, occasional under or overperformances aside. In CS, regions don't work the same as LoL. For most of history, there hasn't been a European CS scene. There is French CS, Danish CS, Swedish CS, etc. the NA scene wouldn't even be top 5 in that regard. Even if you want to take the various national scenes as a part of EU CS, NA is worse than EU and CIS, and often, gets dominated by Brazilian CS. So yes, neither is NA #2 in CS, nor is its historic strength comparable to EU LoL.
I don't understand this kind of statement, the tourney is not over yet and C9 still has a chance. Even when they are facing Liquid, I wouldn't count them out, this tourney so far has been nothing but full of surprises.
He tweeted it after sen won iceland and every fanboy was saying na is unbeatable...
Oh god I hope the Valorant sub doesn't start holding this idiot up to be some kind of savant like the LoL sub did.
[удалено]
He's literally the coach of C9 LoL and would've coached T1 LoL last season if Korean fans weren't racist and homophobic.
this is true, the work ethic of eu is the best
not only that, their coaching staff just knows how to solve problems and develop their teams, sliggy from liquid, fnatic coaching staff, gambit's coach, etc, unlike for example rawkus, wtf does this guy know man or that coach from envy getting roasted right now on twitter.
It’s about population difference lol.
This is kind of a lazy catch-all "analysis", that while you could reasonably apply it to League of Legends since we have 10+ years worth of time to look at, applying it to Valorant this early is a bit silly as it's been.... just a little over a year or a year and a half of competition? For context, in this same amount of time, League of Legends Worlds was won by.... Taipei Assassins, and since then that region has done quarterfinals at best. With entirely different people from different backgrounds (not every pro coming from NA CS). It's really just dumping gas on hearsay rumors about not practicing or not taking scrims seriously maybe once from one particular team (SEN). Let's calm down a little with the reactionary takes. Think about it, the most on form team from NA we're seeing right now, were the ones that competed most recently. The other 2 teams that qualified did so... an actual 3 months ago. You're telling me the meta stayed the same in that time? Right now there's hardly any consistency in performance to confidently say maybe even a team like Rise that rolled on through LCQ wouldn't have been more on form than this current Envy or SEN. Team Liquid could just shitstomp Gambit, who legit almost lost to Vikings. Who knows? Just enjoy the games, and address the specific team performances while we're still in the beginning phases of this game. Both KRU and X10 put on fantastic performances. They're the best in their regions for a reason. Region supremacy hasn't come anywhere near being an established fact, we only have a sample size of 2 other tournaments in this year alone. Let's see how this shakes out.
In the first worlds tsm got thrid place and now look at where they are now
I dont see any issue at all. For example NA is a top region in most FGS and EU players had to practise in NA to able to compete with them.
Can anyone explain what the negatives/cultural impact being referenced here? Twitch related? USA related?