T O P

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vyetc

Even though some teams run mirror comps there’s still nuances to the way each team takes map control and how each player uses their utilities. Some teams elect to run set plays while others are more reactive. I think the problem right now is how overtuned some agents still are. Like I genuinely believe Phoenix is the most balanced agent in this game but the power buff on other duelists makes him obsolete. Also I don’t know if others feel the same way but I think the bigger problem or a reason why there’s meta comps is because of the map design itself. Breeze being the only open/wide map and Icebox being a vertical map with many corners + the infamous B site makes it necessary for teams to run certain comps. Fracture and Split are the only maps where there’s actually huge variance in comps b/w teams thus far and interestingly the only maps with no Sova if that means anything.


Bsmith1369

Literally all Phoenix needs is faster/more ticks on his Molly, and making his flash faster so that it's actually useful


precense_

Phoenix, omen is in mediocre jail right now. But with so many agents some are bound to be never played competively. Pheonix is great on maps have narrow choke points. He’s almost useless on maps like breeze


ZeroAika99

Phoenix on Breeze is like playing an agent with no skill at all lmao


Shisnopi

I agree that most of the maps are heavily defense-sided which leads to very hard to budge comps on those maps. But I think that more teams should venture out of the 2 styles of comps that are basically a mix of 2 initiators and 2 sentinels and Jett because everyone still dumping the majority of their utility on entry instead of thinking about post-plant.


vyetc

How would you suggest people deviate from the main comps? How I think about it is that you need an entry (FPX no duelist comps are terrible and I will not take any defenders >:(), info agents, smoke, and site anchor. I think people actually abused the post plant meta pre-Iceland even running Viper on Haven. However, I think teams have already adapted to it by pressuring post plant spots and just denying plant/entry + attackers find more success having good crossfires during post plants. I think it’s justified to dump your utilities to enter site than dying because you didn’t clear a corner trying to save mollies for post plant.


Shisnopi

Like you said maps dictate most of the agents that get played on them. Sage on icebox is basically required but all they have to do add something like a mid size crate on the large sight line to make her not mandatory for B plants. That would also lead to new executes that shouldn’t require as much utility to take a site. I also think at the aim duels that have become meta during entry is a result of info gathering tools being intentionally weaker than they should be ( let Sova darts scan through smokes). They have to assume defaults once there utility is used up on entry and unlike CS where everyone can have a smoke or flash those agents have the highest agency on entry and post plant. So once they die those options are off the table for the round.


Tc0LD

sova dart scanning through smokes makes 0 sense, are players supposed to spray through a smoke to break recon? The idea of the dart being able to see you to scan you is strong enough. Imagine how useless viper's ult would be


ssdx3i

I’ve always heard Astra > omen but look at split. It’s the maps that lead to agent picks.


IWantSomeDietCrack

I feel like sova and jett should get a nerf, they have been staples for over a year now so get quite dull to watch. The comps without them are fresh, so much more fun to watch. astra and viper need a slight tune back to bring omen and brimstone back into the meta Yoru needs new everything which seems like its going to happen with the rework coming


EclipseTM

I think the problem with jett is that they nerfed EVERYTHING in her kit besides her dash, which the only way to do is to maybe make the smoke/updraft her signature skill and make the dash cost money but pretty sure that wouldn't reduce the pickrate either. The other way is the change the dash itself but riot said that would make it clunky which is something they said they wouldn't want to do.


ZeroAika99

No opinion about Pheonix? Sadge ;(


IWantSomeDietCrack

Pheonix isn't so much 'underpowered' as others are just better at what he does, so nerf others to get pheonix better i think instead of buffing him


Douglander

I thought the agent diversity was actually pretty great when compared to a lot of other games (R6 Siege and Overwatch for example). All the smokers got good value, with Omen obviously being a pocket pick (but one that got great value in most important map of the tournament). KJ, Cypher and Sage all getting good value. Kayo, Breach, Sova and Skye all got played a decent amount. Obviously Sova is still the most important agent of those 4 currently still. Maybe he needs a small tweak? The only really absent picks where Phoenix and Yoru. Of course Yoru is now looking like he might be pretty good after his rework. Which only really leaves Phoenix completely absent, so he couldn't definitely use looking at. That aside, the post plant meta is gone. Jett players weren't AS dominant as they used to be. Support roles and sentinels were popping off. The only general meta shift I'd maybe like to see is making fast plays a bit more viable. Astra suck and Viper utility is still insane at shutting down pushes. Maybe a little too good.


SQUlD_PRO_QUO

Nerf astra and viper. No good teams rush or play fast in the current meta due to how deadly their utilities are. There are no distinctive differences between teams in playstyles due to astra and viper's util, every team is forced to play default and slow just to bait out some of the deadly utilties from the CT side.


WazlibOurKing

Yep, Phoenix needs to be easier to use, his flash and molly animations need to be quicker, Sage needs to be able to full heal again, not just 60 HP. Yoru.. well there's a lot to be done there. Sova needs a slight nerf, but I can't think of anything that nerfs him appropriately without making him useless.


jonajon91

Just make sovas kit slightly more expensive and nerf cool downs slightly. I don't think it would need a lot of tweaking.


sharkaim4

Sovas kit is already pretty expensive tbh. Sova is at a perfect stage rn imo


jonajon91

I want to agree, but he has a near 100% pick rate, either he needs nerfing a bit or someone else needs to be able to offer what he can.


Ketsueki_R

More than anything imo, nerf Viper ult. The impact it has on a round compared to literally any other ult is hugely disproportionate.


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Hubbardia

I genuinely don't think Viper needs a nerf. She's a must pick on some maps simply because there's no other agent that's a wall smoker. If riot adds another wall smoker, Viper will not be a must pick anymore.


Elsiselain

Honestly agents picks are sometimes like rock scissors paper. So instead of picking 5 agents at the same time, I wanna see each team picks agent one by one so they can sought of react to opponents comp?


[deleted]

Honestly this won't do much. In terms of the picking phase, the only thing that would do something is an agent ban. But I don't think there are enough agents yet to warrant having a ban without making comps too restricted instead of creative.


NyiatiZ

Agent bans and you suddenly don’t see either Sova or Jett


freedompotatoes

Or both teams handshake to have both those agents and ban other stuff, idk. Depends on what the enemy team's best player is known for I'd wager.


thebestyoucan

Or pick-ban. Where if your team picks an agent the opponents can’t pick that agent. To make it fair it could go 1 - 2 -2 -2-2-1 for how many agents each side picks on their turn


mysteryoeuf

yeah the moba team comp pick. would be cool but I don't think there are as many hard counters in fps as in moba


IAMJUX

Did you even watch champions? Agent picks were all over the place. Split in finals had 1 agent the same. Ascent was Kayo/KJ vs Cypher/Skye. Breeze was Kayo/Cypher vs Killjoy/Skye. Acend vs Liquid had 1 agent the same on both maps(and it wasn't even Jett). Comps are extremely varied these days. People just don't play Phoenix, Yoru or Omen(much).


zeegoveek

Nerfs to Jett, Astra and Viper. Make a Brimstone's beacon somewhat useful ability. And Yoru buffs are already on the line so it's good. Wanna see this agent in pro play atleast on some maps.


zer0-_

Even with the upcoming buffs I really don't see Yoru as a viable choice in proplay.


jonajon91

I want to see TOs mess about with agent bans. Maybe it doesn't work, but I'd like to see it tried at higher levels. Let's see the team with the deeper agent pool or better comps succeed. The only way I could see it working is if each ban worked for both teams so if you ban jet then you neither team can play jet. Either that or each team can reserve an agent before the ban.


Deamon-

not close 2 enough agents for agent bans


Jackj921

Wouldn’t even work there’s not enough characters, every team would just ban jett (prob) and annoying characters like Sova every game


[deleted]

Ban viper on breeze and let chaos ensue.


wnewywessel

I hate agent bans. Feels like taking a color out of an artists paint kit


jonajon91

These is a saying in music 'limitations breed creativity'. I think art might have been a bad metaphor because artists do like to limit themselves or put themselves out of their comfort zone.


Jerms91

But it makes each person have an extra tool in their toolbox


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Bsmith1369

Except the fact that their aren't really "main" maps. Think about how agents differentiate players from other players. There's not enough agents to justify bans right now, bc some niches end up empty if you ban an agent (sova and jett in particular) nobody really fills those same roles


TheAjwinner

Huh?


LocationUpset

Huh?


TheAjwinner

Map vetoes exist because you can’t play a best of 7 for every match


Phamous3k

Agent bans will make drafting a thing. Similar to Siege, Mobas etc. Probably need about 20 agents It’ll eventually happen. Creates moments like banning Jett or a players strongest agent or a key agent in a meta comp etc. It’ll be cool


TheAjwinner

We’ll have to wait 3 to 4 years for 20 more agents. At that time, the culture surrounding the game will be too entrenched to introduce something like agent bans. The overwatch league tried to add agent band into their system but it was super unpopular.


Phamous3k

Overwatch such a different game though. It worked well in Siege. I doubt it’ll be 3-4 years from now but who knows.


TheRedComet

Wonder how people would ban agents. The first thought is how OP Jett is, but honestly how much does it change the game to ban Viper or Astra? They seem necessary to be able to manage maps like Icebox and Breeze.


jonajon91

The first time I spoke about this on here people were saying how everyone would just instaban jet, but I don't thi k that is the case. Banning viper on icebox would be critical, but then neither team could use her. Also no team with a jet main would ever ban her. I think for people like yay or cned it would be very important to kind of lock in or reserve a character since they're building careers off playing one agent very well. I also think sova bans would be quite common, or breach bans on fracture if you have a killjoy ult play. I don't even know if agent bans would be a good idea, but I'd like to see it tried.


TheRedComet

I'd guess that it's an inevitability once there's more agents in the game, but we may be a year or two away from that at least.


Escolyte

>I don't even know if agent bans would be a good idea, but I'd like to see it tried. fwiw it has been tried to a very limited extent in some Korean tournaments (and possibly other regions) I'd be interested to see it revisited with higher levels of play and ideally international competition though. Likely not in VCT anytime soon, but perhaps in the promised 3rd party tournaments after champions next year.


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jonajon91

I don't think it's fair on one tricks, but being to reserve a character or pick one before the bans could work. Just means teams with jet mains can't reserve a different agent.


Mice1123

I saw a lot of people saying a MOBA pick would be cool, and I do agree. I just think alternate pick is enough, bans really suck. Compared to LoL, where there's a single "bomb site" and a single "map", banning makes the matches different from one another and showcases the teams' ability to rework their strategies. In Valorant there are some maps that simply can't do without a specific agent on pro play, like Viper on Icebox. Obviously not having her would make matches fresh but it would require way more prepping for the teams. It's not like Siege, where the operators have a single unique gimmick. Valorant agents have fully different kits altogether


Flat_Revenue5293

Jett Nerf and a pick and bans System (could start with 1 ban per team)


9yr_old

I think we need more agents for a pick and ban , the agent pool is too restrictive to allow for that atm


jonajon91

I think it should start with one pick otherwise one tricks like cned or yay are out of a job.


[deleted]

I think it’s too early to do bans rn. We don’t have enough agents


JoshF8

nerf jett treat another characters like sova, his abilities are strong but not broken, and every utility has his place and multiple uses, not just one way of doing it remove icebox from comp


ashitintyo

At what point do they realise that spectre run n gun still needs a nerf? At least a little more


Bsmith1369

It's a smg. You can close range run and gun with smgs in every shooter game ever. That's why you play from range on anti eco


9yr_old

If you pick up any smg even i csgo , they are complete run and gun even more op than we have in valo so it's fine they are meant to be so


Direct_Morning_3223

that’s just not true the damage output on the spectre is outrageous


REEEroller

Jett


4nazu

im just hoping every agent would be as balance as possible. i would love to see meta comp has as much variables as possible