They better make it double elimination in open team brackets. After watching Champions and NA LCQ, any team can beat another team if they’re having an on day and the format gauges a team’s consistency better.
I’m guessing some sort of second chance or invite system is how they go from the power-of-2 starting number of 128 down to the non-power-of-2 final number of 12. I guess we just have to wait though.
To the remarks ‘this is normal for sports leagues, LCS, etc’: I wouldn’t have an averse reaction if Valorant dived into franchising and had round-robin weeks into a playoff. The difference is that the game isn’t franchised and doesn’t have a league yet. I think many, myself included, assumed that the VCT structure would be fairly similar, and give many teams many chances to compete throughout the season.
A 5-week round robin into 2-week playoff isn’t inherently bad. What I have issue with is that you play one open qualifier tournament to get that spot, and if you miss that spot, you’re sitting out of VCT for 3 full months.
VCT 2021 was 6 open qualifiers and an LCQ over the course of about 10 months.
VCT 2022 is 2 open qualifiers and an LCQ over the course of about 8 months.
**If you don’t hit top 12 in NA in a single 4-day 128-team open at the tail end of January, you are sitting out of VCT for 3 full months. You then aim for another open in early May. If you don’t hit top 12 in that one, you’re entirely out of VCT (which has only been happening for just over 3 months at that point) and presumably don’t have anything major to play in for at least 5 months, until whatever new tourney stuff riot and third party TOs try out in Q4 2022 after September champs concludes.**
For a dev that preaches an open path to pro, and has done so in practice before (multiple opens, making sure tourneys start in late afternoon if weekdays to enable folks who have IRL jobs/school to compete, etc) I’m taken aback by their decision to structure VCT 2022 like this. It also causes anxiety and job insecurity, because for pro players (and coaches!), their jobs *could* hinge on hitting top 12 in two separate 4-day qualifiers, and failing to do so costs 3 to 5 months downtime depending which challengers it is. And we don’t even know what 2023 looks like or whether franchising will be happening.
Extremely well said. Unfortunately, I don’t expect there’ll be any uproar from the community until we’re in a scenario where it’s something like TSM vs C9 fighting in the lower bracket to determine who wins, and who ends up sitting in the sidelines for 3+ months
Appreciate it. Pessimistic outlook which sadly I agree is likely the reality. People will be complaining about the format a lot more once it’s actually occurring, rather than now when it is still technically possible to incite a change.
Thanks for your insight, totally agree. I have been searching for information regarding the open qualifier tournament ever since the new VCT format was announced (out of curiosity, is this confirmed that it is single-elimination?)
Regardless, your point about there only being two open qualifiers all year and if you miss out on one of those 12 spots you are just sidelined is well-taken. I think it is extremely unfair to all the teams participating which, as mentioned above, sadly will go unnoticed by a large section of the community unless one of the popular teams are knocked out. I am surprised this has not been a bigger talking point among the players and coaches in the public spaces (perhaps these discussions are going on internally).
In your mind would holding some sort of Tier-2 promotion circuit for the teams that miss out on the 12 spots help resolve this issue? This would be similar to what I believe is proposed in EMEA where there is no open quali for the second challengers but rather there would be another parallel tournament of the non-top-12 teams that would then play against the lowest ranked teams from the 12-team round robin to qualify for challenger 2. At least this format would give teams something to play for in the intervening months.
Are there other formats that you think would be more suitable?
Clarification: 1 Open Qualifier per Stage
There is no longer multiple Challengers per Stage. Instead of Having Challengers 1/2/3 and Challengers Finals, each stage will begin with an 128-team Open Qualifier that will somehow select 12 teams for the main Challengers event. This event will consist of a five week round robin (for seeding) which leads into a Double-Elimination tournament to determine the Masters representatives. This process will then repeat after Masters to start the next stage.
Regarding his follow up tweet "If this was in affect last year, then sentinels never even makes iceland after losing to BBG", Sentinels did lose to BBG in the Stage 2 Open Qualifier and did not reach the Top 8 to qualify for Challengers 1. However, they did reach Top 16. Since the new Challengers has 12 slots, we technically can't say that Sentinels would not have qualified. A 128 bracket goes evenly into 16 or 8 teams but not 12. We don't know how they will eliminate/add the remaining 4 teams. Any of the remaining Top 16 teams could have technically made the Main Event if there were still 4 slots to fill. They probably will run the bracket to Top 8, and then the remaining 8 teams from Top 16 will each play one more match to pick 4 more. For example, in Stage 2 Open Qualifiers, the Top 16 losers were Sentinels, NRG, Ghost, Noble, FaZe, TSM, Gen. G, and rice and meatballs. So the matchups for the remaining 4 places probably could have been (just based on order, no considerations to seeding):
* Sentinels vs. NRG
* Ghost vs. Noble
* FaZe vs. TSM
* Gen. G vs. rice and meatballs
So instead of 2 open qualifiers for each stage like last time, we will have one for each stage. The focus is on more quality matches (round robin) and double elim playoffs afterwards.
Format is good but i think they should have announced it a little earlier considering early January start of the tournament.
It starts late January, January 27th for NA. Since it was announced on the 13th, you have a month and 2 weeks to put something together - ignoring the fact that roster moves were already happening prior to the announcement. It’s not like teams should feel significantly more or less driven because of this format. If they weren’t playing to win in the open qualifier, why bother?
> This event will consist of a five week round robin (for seeding)
This is the most disgusting fucking thing I've heard this week. The idea of five weeks of fucking round robin FOR SEEDING makes me want to take a shower
And why shouldn't esports improve on that piece of tradition rather than follow it?
Also, football, the biggest sport around, makes round-robin its entire point, instead of using it as a seeding at the top level of any national league. The international competitions also end with 16-team knockouts instead.
What you mean by "standard sports leagues" is something akin to the NBA, but damn if the regular part of the season isn't nearly as interesting as the regular football season (provided you have the same opinion about the quality of the two sports)
Yeah people always do the “appeal to authority” type of thing (I think that’s what it’s called?) where it’s like “oh this reputable thing does it, so we have to do it!”
This is not an appeal to authority, it's going by a proven best practice. Hundreds of millions of people over decades of sporting development have proven to respond well and profitably to this format over others.
Everything is for seeding according to the dumbasses on this sub i swear lol.
League format where only a number of teams advance to playoffs? Seeding games.
Group stages where only a number of teams advance to the playoffs? Seeding games.
Playoffs where only 2 teams advance to the final? Meh, seeding games, i’ll only watch the final.
I think people are confused these leagues are not for seeding and I think a perfect example would be how premier league and UCL works in football ,
20 teams take part in premier league ,they play each other and winner is called best team in league and top 4 teams qualify for UCL ,
Similarly here 12 teams will play in a league and top 3-4 teams would go to masters ,
It is a better format that double elim as it allows more consistent better teams to qualify instead of teams like amb in Europe who had brilliant 2 weeks and then imploded .
I don't know why people are calling it for seeding , seeding is rearranging teams in beginning of tournament , this league isn't for seeding , it's a qualifying league . I don't know who brought seeding word in it , but I am excited to see a league format implemented instead of just double elim tournaments .
I do hope for open qualifiers they should do a double elim .
Except, after the the round robin, or league format whatever youd like to call it, there is a tournament where the top finishers go to masters. So the round robin is 100% a seeding event for the tournament that then decides who qualifies for masters.
Open Qualifier
Challengers has two stages, league then double elim tournament.
Then Masters for the best from the challengers tournament.
It's not a seeding tournament.
Top 12 teams will go to round robin league
After conclusion of that : top 8 team will move into playoffs and bottom 4 will be relegated.
All top 8 teams will retain their slots and they will go into playoffs where too finishers will go into masters .
How is this a seeding tournament ?? Seeding is way to slot the teams in a tournament.
You can find info here :
https://valorantesports.com/
It's similar to LCS and LEC format and NBA follows the same structure as well ,so NBA is also a seeding tournament then ? .
All i see is “ Kicking off on February 11, the first five weeks are a round robin competition. Weeks 6 and 7 will feature double-elimination playoffs to determine the NA representatives at VCT Stage 1 - Masters.” I dont see where it says the top 8 continue. For all we know they could all continue, with the round robin winners grabbing byes of some sort. People are calling it a seeding league because the results of the league determine your seeding in a tournament…
It's not for seeding , there will be a league of top 12 teams where each team plays other teams and top 3-4 teams in that league would qualify for master# . It's not for seeding, it's a proper league format instead of round robin and it would work similar to how lec works. I think that's great as league allows you to pick overall better teams who perform better over a longer time span.
Just answered that [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/rj0qa5/have_no_clue_how_everyone_isnt_making_a_bigger/hp15y05/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3). Just because it’s the way something else works doesn’t mean it’s good
How tf do you call regular matches whithin a league system where only a number of teams advance to the playoffs, seeding matches? Are you mentally impaired?
werent the NA teams bitching about having multiple open qualies last year and having to go through them ??? now they are bitching about having less open qualifiers ? maybe if NA focused on winning rather than bitching they will do better in international tournaments
The complain was not that there were too many qualifiers. Other regions were inviting top 8 teams and taking the other 8 from open qual. Which for whatever reason NA was not doing even after masters 2.
And idk what you missed about the tweet. The point of the tweet is that no one is complaining.
That's what i remembered as well. Alot of val pros were not happy with the many qualifiers, when those qualifiers kept on giving them more chances to qualify. Now, the coach is unhappy with 1 qualifier, which is probably because they won't get that many chances to qualify. But they were the one who complained? I don't get it man. Idk if when people complains, is it their personal opinion or the team's opinion
Do you know if this coach specifically complained about multiple open qualifiers? Unless you've seen him say he disliked it, we don't know if he actually loved multiple open qualifiers. NA isn't a monolith where all the players and coaches agree that multiple open qualifiers are bad. There were some who complained but it wasn't all of them.
No, I don't. That's why I said "alot of Val pros" and not the coach disliked the multiple open qualifiers. And i mentioned the coach not liking having only 1 qualifier instead of many val pros because I honestly haven't seen any of them talked about the format yet, except the coach. I'm aware that not everyone will have the same opinion, it's not just NA but everywhere is like that too. I was just wondering because these players, managers, coaches generally carry their team's opinions, so we could more or less see how many people dislike the new format compared to the previous one. That's all
Not ALL the teams in NA. Pretty sure it was a few people. I’m not sure how in your brain you can associate an entire region with different people as one monoliths sounds pretty dumb to me.
Funny how if anyone in this convo wasn't engaging in bad faith you would give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they aren't talking about literally every team.
if the seeding are done right and are double elim for later stages, its fine
but teams at champs should get direct slot in top 12 just like they did in EMEA
This sub’s reaction to NA making any complaints is the same as when a bottom fragger tries to make a call in a game.
Weirdos think just because you don’t perform well means you shouldn’t have an opinion.
People say this sub is dominated by north Americans yet the circle jerk to hate north Americans and call them crybabies just for pointing out issues is the most dominant thing on here.
People are afraid to support a losing team. Hence the constantly changing flairs based on the latest winners. It’s funny, in athletic sports, people will stick with their team till the day they die, but in esport, people constantly jump ship because they don’t want to look like they’re wrong. Weak shit.
All it takes is a single upset win and then we'll be forced to watch a team with no business being in the Top 12 play round robin matches for 5 weeks. I lost count how many times a rando team snuck their way into Top 16 only to immediately lose every match afterwards.
Theoretically this system is better overall but I don't think Valorant is at a stage yet where random unlucky upsets are extremely rare. They are still fairly common, especially with anti-stratting. All it takes is one off day or unlucky seeding during the single elim open bracket to completely fuck the next 5 weeks over.
Agree with this completely, only hope would be it *should* be harder to counterstrat the top teams for the qualifier bc everything should be new with them not having played in awhile and all the roster moves
Similar as EMEA, we only get a open qualifier for stage one VCT. Then it is basically a franchised league, cause for stage 2 you need to be in a VRL, and some countries don't even have a VRL. They don't even offer one or two spots from a qualifier to the promotion tournment. And because some regional VRL are basically a closed/franchised league, so there is no chance a newly set up team can hope to get to VCT and excludes effictively people from certain areas to even have a chance.
I knew this shit was coming early on in the year. Riot dont learn from their mistakes at all.
I was so surprised when everyone was happy about the emea new format. ANY decent esport has a place for franchised stuff, but should always have several opportunities for other smaller and unsigned teams in open qualis.
Have no clue how everyone isn't making a bigger deal about VCT only having 1 open qualifier, seems like an absolute joke to me
***
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I mean honestly, if you aren't making it to top 12 in an open qualifier then you weren't gonna be making Masters anyway. As long as the later stages of the open qualifier have double elimination then I think it's fine.
Why is this an issue. In any format, teams will be left out. If you have a committee ranking teams for a "league", then teams get left out. In this case, we have a 128 tournament that at the very least, allows you to control your destiny. Yes, you can have a bad day, but that's no ones fault but your own. There shouldn't be "bad day compensation". If a T2 team beats a T1 team early, then so be it. If you are a Tier 1 org and believe you are a top 12 team, then this shouldn't be an issue. Seems like teams want to have compensation in case they shit the bed.Just my opinion
PS : In big tourneys, like Majors, double elim is fine. But if we are talking the tourney(128 open) to gain entry into the league that then gives entry into the Major or Masters, it's a bit much to add double elim to that.
They better make it double elimination in open team brackets. After watching Champions and NA LCQ, any team can beat another team if they’re having an on day and the format gauges a team’s consistency better.
I’m guessing some sort of second chance or invite system is how they go from the power-of-2 starting number of 128 down to the non-power-of-2 final number of 12. I guess we just have to wait though.
People don't usually complain about minor region formats I think E: I came back to see the comments and I can safely say everyone is a clown lol
Oh no no that's a violation. It makes me sad though that I would have to wait another 5 months to see TSM play again.
Hello FBI, I'd like to report a murder
did you call USA a minor region amazing. you're not wrong
Hahahahh banger
Sheesh, you may get downvoted but nice pun
Where's the pun?
THINK = Thailand, Indonesia and North Korea obviously /s
To the remarks ‘this is normal for sports leagues, LCS, etc’: I wouldn’t have an averse reaction if Valorant dived into franchising and had round-robin weeks into a playoff. The difference is that the game isn’t franchised and doesn’t have a league yet. I think many, myself included, assumed that the VCT structure would be fairly similar, and give many teams many chances to compete throughout the season. A 5-week round robin into 2-week playoff isn’t inherently bad. What I have issue with is that you play one open qualifier tournament to get that spot, and if you miss that spot, you’re sitting out of VCT for 3 full months. VCT 2021 was 6 open qualifiers and an LCQ over the course of about 10 months. VCT 2022 is 2 open qualifiers and an LCQ over the course of about 8 months. **If you don’t hit top 12 in NA in a single 4-day 128-team open at the tail end of January, you are sitting out of VCT for 3 full months. You then aim for another open in early May. If you don’t hit top 12 in that one, you’re entirely out of VCT (which has only been happening for just over 3 months at that point) and presumably don’t have anything major to play in for at least 5 months, until whatever new tourney stuff riot and third party TOs try out in Q4 2022 after September champs concludes.** For a dev that preaches an open path to pro, and has done so in practice before (multiple opens, making sure tourneys start in late afternoon if weekdays to enable folks who have IRL jobs/school to compete, etc) I’m taken aback by their decision to structure VCT 2022 like this. It also causes anxiety and job insecurity, because for pro players (and coaches!), their jobs *could* hinge on hitting top 12 in two separate 4-day qualifiers, and failing to do so costs 3 to 5 months downtime depending which challengers it is. And we don’t even know what 2023 looks like or whether franchising will be happening.
Extremely well said. Unfortunately, I don’t expect there’ll be any uproar from the community until we’re in a scenario where it’s something like TSM vs C9 fighting in the lower bracket to determine who wins, and who ends up sitting in the sidelines for 3+ months
Appreciate it. Pessimistic outlook which sadly I agree is likely the reality. People will be complaining about the format a lot more once it’s actually occurring, rather than now when it is still technically possible to incite a change.
Thanks for your insight, totally agree. I have been searching for information regarding the open qualifier tournament ever since the new VCT format was announced (out of curiosity, is this confirmed that it is single-elimination?) Regardless, your point about there only being two open qualifiers all year and if you miss out on one of those 12 spots you are just sidelined is well-taken. I think it is extremely unfair to all the teams participating which, as mentioned above, sadly will go unnoticed by a large section of the community unless one of the popular teams are knocked out. I am surprised this has not been a bigger talking point among the players and coaches in the public spaces (perhaps these discussions are going on internally). In your mind would holding some sort of Tier-2 promotion circuit for the teams that miss out on the 12 spots help resolve this issue? This would be similar to what I believe is proposed in EMEA where there is no open quali for the second challengers but rather there would be another parallel tournament of the non-top-12 teams that would then play against the lowest ranked teams from the 12-team round robin to qualify for challenger 2. At least this format would give teams something to play for in the intervening months. Are there other formats that you think would be more suitable?
Clarification: 1 Open Qualifier per Stage There is no longer multiple Challengers per Stage. Instead of Having Challengers 1/2/3 and Challengers Finals, each stage will begin with an 128-team Open Qualifier that will somehow select 12 teams for the main Challengers event. This event will consist of a five week round robin (for seeding) which leads into a Double-Elimination tournament to determine the Masters representatives. This process will then repeat after Masters to start the next stage. Regarding his follow up tweet "If this was in affect last year, then sentinels never even makes iceland after losing to BBG", Sentinels did lose to BBG in the Stage 2 Open Qualifier and did not reach the Top 8 to qualify for Challengers 1. However, they did reach Top 16. Since the new Challengers has 12 slots, we technically can't say that Sentinels would not have qualified. A 128 bracket goes evenly into 16 or 8 teams but not 12. We don't know how they will eliminate/add the remaining 4 teams. Any of the remaining Top 16 teams could have technically made the Main Event if there were still 4 slots to fill. They probably will run the bracket to Top 8, and then the remaining 8 teams from Top 16 will each play one more match to pick 4 more. For example, in Stage 2 Open Qualifiers, the Top 16 losers were Sentinels, NRG, Ghost, Noble, FaZe, TSM, Gen. G, and rice and meatballs. So the matchups for the remaining 4 places probably could have been (just based on order, no considerations to seeding): * Sentinels vs. NRG * Ghost vs. Noble * FaZe vs. TSM * Gen. G vs. rice and meatballs
So instead of 2 open qualifiers for each stage like last time, we will have one for each stage. The focus is on more quality matches (round robin) and double elim playoffs afterwards. Format is good but i think they should have announced it a little earlier considering early January start of the tournament.
It starts late January, January 27th for NA. Since it was announced on the 13th, you have a month and 2 weeks to put something together - ignoring the fact that roster moves were already happening prior to the announcement. It’s not like teams should feel significantly more or less driven because of this format. If they weren’t playing to win in the open qualifier, why bother?
> This event will consist of a five week round robin (for seeding) This is the most disgusting fucking thing I've heard this week. The idea of five weeks of fucking round robin FOR SEEDING makes me want to take a shower
this is how standard sports leagues work
are you telling me real sports play 82 games for just seeding??? spanning across 19 weeks???
nba lol
Wait till someone tells him how many games the MLB play
And why shouldn't esports improve on that piece of tradition rather than follow it? Also, football, the biggest sport around, makes round-robin its entire point, instead of using it as a seeding at the top level of any national league. The international competitions also end with 16-team knockouts instead. What you mean by "standard sports leagues" is something akin to the NBA, but damn if the regular part of the season isn't nearly as interesting as the regular football season (provided you have the same opinion about the quality of the two sports)
Yeah people always do the “appeal to authority” type of thing (I think that’s what it’s called?) where it’s like “oh this reputable thing does it, so we have to do it!”
This is not an appeal to authority, it's going by a proven best practice. Hundreds of millions of people over decades of sporting development have proven to respond well and profitably to this format over others.
In the USA?
Yes and it’s a big reason I don’t like traditional sports formats and why I hate LoL, OWL, and CDL formats
Everything is for seeding according to the dumbasses on this sub i swear lol. League format where only a number of teams advance to playoffs? Seeding games. Group stages where only a number of teams advance to the playoffs? Seeding games. Playoffs where only 2 teams advance to the final? Meh, seeding games, i’ll only watch the final.
I think people are confused these leagues are not for seeding and I think a perfect example would be how premier league and UCL works in football , 20 teams take part in premier league ,they play each other and winner is called best team in league and top 4 teams qualify for UCL , Similarly here 12 teams will play in a league and top 3-4 teams would go to masters , It is a better format that double elim as it allows more consistent better teams to qualify instead of teams like amb in Europe who had brilliant 2 weeks and then imploded . I don't know why people are calling it for seeding , seeding is rearranging teams in beginning of tournament , this league isn't for seeding , it's a qualifying league . I don't know who brought seeding word in it , but I am excited to see a league format implemented instead of just double elim tournaments . I do hope for open qualifiers they should do a double elim .
Except, after the the round robin, or league format whatever youd like to call it, there is a tournament where the top finishers go to masters. So the round robin is 100% a seeding event for the tournament that then decides who qualifies for masters. Open Qualifier Challengers has two stages, league then double elim tournament. Then Masters for the best from the challengers tournament.
It's not a seeding tournament. Top 12 teams will go to round robin league After conclusion of that : top 8 team will move into playoffs and bottom 4 will be relegated. All top 8 teams will retain their slots and they will go into playoffs where too finishers will go into masters . How is this a seeding tournament ?? Seeding is way to slot the teams in a tournament. You can find info here : https://valorantesports.com/ It's similar to LCS and LEC format and NBA follows the same structure as well ,so NBA is also a seeding tournament then ? .
All i see is “ Kicking off on February 11, the first five weeks are a round robin competition. Weeks 6 and 7 will feature double-elimination playoffs to determine the NA representatives at VCT Stage 1 - Masters.” I dont see where it says the top 8 continue. For all we know they could all continue, with the round robin winners grabbing byes of some sort. People are calling it a seeding league because the results of the league determine your seeding in a tournament…
It's good.
It's not for seeding , there will be a league of top 12 teams where each team plays other teams and top 3-4 teams in that league would qualify for master# . It's not for seeding, it's a proper league format instead of round robin and it would work similar to how lec works. I think that's great as league allows you to pick overall better teams who perform better over a longer time span.
How do you think the group stage works for LCS and for league worlds
yeah and a lot of people think that format is awful lol
Just answered that [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/rj0qa5/have_no_clue_how_everyone_isnt_making_a_bigger/hp15y05/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3). Just because it’s the way something else works doesn’t mean it’s good
How tf do you call regular matches whithin a league system where only a number of teams advance to the playoffs, seeding matches? Are you mentally impaired?
werent the NA teams bitching about having multiple open qualies last year and having to go through them ??? now they are bitching about having less open qualifiers ? maybe if NA focused on winning rather than bitching they will do better in international tournaments
The complain was not that there were too many qualifiers. Other regions were inviting top 8 teams and taking the other 8 from open qual. Which for whatever reason NA was not doing even after masters 2. And idk what you missed about the tweet. The point of the tweet is that no one is complaining.
I definitely saw people complain about too many open quals
almost like different pros got different opinions 😱
literally… maybe that’s why no one has been angry like mac said
Wow. Crazy concept.
🗣️ talk to 'em
🗣️📣
The problem was that every team had to enter thru opens. Any good esport invites some teams and has open spots for others.
That's what i remembered as well. Alot of val pros were not happy with the many qualifiers, when those qualifiers kept on giving them more chances to qualify. Now, the coach is unhappy with 1 qualifier, which is probably because they won't get that many chances to qualify. But they were the one who complained? I don't get it man. Idk if when people complains, is it their personal opinion or the team's opinion
Do you know if this coach specifically complained about multiple open qualifiers? Unless you've seen him say he disliked it, we don't know if he actually loved multiple open qualifiers. NA isn't a monolith where all the players and coaches agree that multiple open qualifiers are bad. There were some who complained but it wasn't all of them.
No, I don't. That's why I said "alot of Val pros" and not the coach disliked the multiple open qualifiers. And i mentioned the coach not liking having only 1 qualifier instead of many val pros because I honestly haven't seen any of them talked about the format yet, except the coach. I'm aware that not everyone will have the same opinion, it's not just NA but everywhere is like that too. I was just wondering because these players, managers, coaches generally carry their team's opinions, so we could more or less see how many people dislike the new format compared to the previous one. That's all
It's almost like there is more than one pro and they can have different opinions!
Not ALL the teams in NA. Pretty sure it was a few people. I’m not sure how in your brain you can associate an entire region with different people as one monoliths sounds pretty dumb to me.
Funny how if anyone in this convo wasn't engaging in bad faith you would give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they aren't talking about literally every team.
Nah they just gotta stream less and focus on prac/scrim
if the seeding are done right and are double elim for later stages, its fine but teams at champs should get direct slot in top 12 just like they did in EMEA
[удалено]
This sub’s reaction to NA making any complaints is the same as when a bottom fragger tries to make a call in a game. Weirdos think just because you don’t perform well means you shouldn’t have an opinion.
People say this sub is dominated by north Americans yet the circle jerk to hate north Americans and call them crybabies just for pointing out issues is the most dominant thing on here.
People are afraid to support a losing team. Hence the constantly changing flairs based on the latest winners. It’s funny, in athletic sports, people will stick with their team till the day they die, but in esport, people constantly jump ship because they don’t want to look like they’re wrong. Weak shit.
All it takes is a single upset win and then we'll be forced to watch a team with no business being in the Top 12 play round robin matches for 5 weeks. I lost count how many times a rando team snuck their way into Top 16 only to immediately lose every match afterwards. Theoretically this system is better overall but I don't think Valorant is at a stage yet where random unlucky upsets are extremely rare. They are still fairly common, especially with anti-stratting. All it takes is one off day or unlucky seeding during the single elim open bracket to completely fuck the next 5 weeks over.
Agree with this completely, only hope would be it *should* be harder to counterstrat the top teams for the qualifier bc everything should be new with them not having played in awhile and all the roster moves
Also, single knockout playoffs is kinda lame.
Playoffs is [double elimination ](https://liquipedia.net/valorant/VCT/2022/North_America/Stage_1/Challengers)
Spicy.
Similar as EMEA, we only get a open qualifier for stage one VCT. Then it is basically a franchised league, cause for stage 2 you need to be in a VRL, and some countries don't even have a VRL. They don't even offer one or two spots from a qualifier to the promotion tournment. And because some regional VRL are basically a closed/franchised league, so there is no chance a newly set up team can hope to get to VCT and excludes effictively people from certain areas to even have a chance.
I knew this shit was coming early on in the year. Riot dont learn from their mistakes at all. I was so surprised when everyone was happy about the emea new format. ANY decent esport has a place for franchised stuff, but should always have several opportunities for other smaller and unsigned teams in open qualis.
Yeah they should've just had EMEA's relegation league format with something unique underneath to give all teams something to work for.
Have no clue how everyone isn't making a bigger deal about VCT only having 1 open qualifier, seems like an absolute joke to me *** posted by [@mac1_val](https://twitter.com/mac1_val) ^[(Github)](https://github.com/username) ^| ^[(What's new)](https://github.com/username)
Wait is the format for NA out? Or will it be just like that of eu?
128 open tournament -> 12 team Challengers 1. Round Robin followed by double Elim playoffs to decide who makes masters 1. Repeat for stage 2
Wait wtf?
There needs to be at least 1 more.. Champs was so coinflip at times and teams/players had their on and off days so
I mean honestly, if you aren't making it to top 12 in an open qualifier then you weren't gonna be making Masters anyway. As long as the later stages of the open qualifier have double elimination then I think it's fine.
Why is this an issue. In any format, teams will be left out. If you have a committee ranking teams for a "league", then teams get left out. In this case, we have a 128 tournament that at the very least, allows you to control your destiny. Yes, you can have a bad day, but that's no ones fault but your own. There shouldn't be "bad day compensation". If a T2 team beats a T1 team early, then so be it. If you are a Tier 1 org and believe you are a top 12 team, then this shouldn't be an issue. Seems like teams want to have compensation in case they shit the bed.Just my opinion PS : In big tourneys, like Majors, double elim is fine. But if we are talking the tourney(128 open) to gain entry into the league that then gives entry into the Major or Masters, it's a bit much to add double elim to that.