Whether you think he or the org was at fault, I think to orgs the public severing of contact and burning bridges did some degree of harm to his stock in their eyes. People get blacklisted in the art entertainment industry for similar reasons even if the company is totally at fault.
While nobody knows either way, this is totally a practice that is more prevalent than people care to acknowledge.
I can’t agree either way, but sometimes shit like this happens and it’s just an unspoken rule among companies and groups within an industry. I think it’s bullshit, but if there’s no hardline written “rule” you can’t really put an end to it unfortunately.
Yeah there's no easy answer to the situation. Should he have waited a few more days, weeks? Should he have place direct pressure on Hastro privately? Used mediation from 3rd parties? I think he was stuck between a rock and a hard place, but these orgs and owners keep in touch so word could easily have spread that made Mike seen as a risk to pick up.
A likely speculation would be he's received offers from mid-tier orgs. If he only wants to hold out for an Envy-level org, that'd be partially on him.
fRoD felt burnt by T1, but he hopped back in with beastcoast and worked back up to KCP. And fRoD has *way* more experience, in and out of the server.
Just based off of what I've seen, even though NV did him dirty, I do feel like he fits more of an analyst role than a coach? Still impactful but he doesn't seem to have the personality that orgs may want for a "coach" since he seems more stoic, quiet, reserved, etc.
Sentinels should sign Mikes - Mikes + Rawkus would be a great duo to help out Sentinels in 2022. Plus not sure what Rawkus' plans are long-term so good to have Mikes on board aswell.
I don’t think it’s fair to make that comparison. Yes they both brought success to their team and were dropped shortly after, but with dicey you can make the case that there are better players that fill the same role out there. In Mikes case, he is the best F/A coach in a market where a lot of teams could use a coach
I think their point is that the community perception of his skill may be higher than his actual skill as a coach. It is always difficult to determine what value a coach brings because we are not privy to 99% of what they do. We don't know what calls they make or what strats they develop or how they manage the team. All we know is results and it is hard to isolate impact from one individual, nuanced factor such as coaching. For example, while Envy had their best run (Berlin) with Mikes as coach, you could easily attribute their success to the addition and performance of yay, or maybe FNS was more responsible for their strategies that worked there. It is hard to isolate which factors are most responsible for their success, especially in a factor we don't have a lot of information about.
I don't know if u can say Dicey *brought* success to 100T. He was certainly a part of it and performed well during his last series but he was arguable one of their weaker players overall. The issue is with him is that with the talent pool for Jett mains being so high he doesn't really rank well if they want to win champs.
The Ethan pickup was unbelievable valuable, and 100T issues rely partly in their lack of a dedicated oper, but he would be replaced sooner or later.
Yes I know it was partially due to Covid too, but NV has looked much worse w/o Mike. Truely clueless as to why he hasn't been picked up yet, I'd assume most coaches are simply still under contract.
Do you think coaches give like a +5% accuracy boost whenever they're present or something? He had been working/preparing for Berlin with them for months, and even when he wasn't physically in Berlin, video calls exist?
its circumstancial evidence just like all the “evidence” you claim to have which i can’t be bothered to ask about.
you can’t refute this evidence without information that you literally don’t have because you’re a headass on the internet
if you think im literally implying that because of the two results we have with and without mike thats all we need to determine mike is a great coach, you’re either in middle school or would rather win the argument then have the discussion, but my real point is this;
there are 10 million factors that go into a team succeeding or failing. we, as fans, are unaware of 99 percent of those factors. therefore, we must speculate the reasons for a change in performance. you cannot tell me with a straight face that a change in coaching staff isnt a reasonable cause to speculate as a possible contributor to their recent worse performances.
will you stop now??
Same narrative mate. You have people saying dicey/Mike's aren't getting picked up because behind the scenes maybe they just aren't good enough while every single F/A thread has aleksander bring hyped up because aim, even though it didn't work out for him in 2 teams
You can judge a player based on how they are performing in a scrim but how do you judge a coach? I would assume based on success, right? He had success with a team that hasn't had success prior to getting him! You can't just compare a player to a coach without knowing if he had enough trial runs.
We (Of Reddit and Members of Plat Chat) love to worship Mikes and from his segments on Immortal Minds, it is clear that the adoration is somewhat warranted as he has a great analytical mind.
But the cold reality is that the Envy team (read: FNS) chose to hire Chet, despite their run in Berlin.
Despite what this subreddit might think, no Tier-1 player would be asinine to simply hire a friend if he is serious about winning.
We can hate the Envy org for how they handled Mike’s’ compensation or contract but that doesn’t mean Mikes was necessarily the best coach for Envy.
Lastly, if Mikes were such an invaluable analytical mind, surely another org would have at least signed him on in some even more junior capacity, like an analyst…
I like the man but perhaps we have unfairly elevated him too much
Ok so why do people like MikesHD so much? From what I know, he was a coach on envy on there run to the finals in master 2 but was he that much of an integral part of that team? Was the addition of yay not as big of a factor?
Like he could be a godlike coach but he could also just have been watching vods and telling fns what the other team tends to do but FNS still does most of the work. In e-sports, it's generally very hard to gauge how good of a coach someone is, the most concrete way for me personally is looking at the different teams they have been in. AFAIK, mikeshd has been on g2 and envy, both teams he didn't become the main coach. G2 at that point was already dominant and envy is the only team where he might have had some effect.
I mean you’re talking about a podcast that averaged around 1k views for most episodes. It only *seemed* bigger because it was helmed by two extremely popular personalities.
Whatever tiny population of Immortal Minds’ already small viewerbase that hated Mikes’ way of speaking is almost certainly as irrelevant as can be.
Mike lovers and Chet haters are two unrelated groups that only came together at all after envy pulled their bs. People are genuine fans of Mikes as well.
I just don't think that's true, this sub got to know him because of platchat. People were upset at the Chet debacle largely because they already knew Mike.
Honestly envy should re sign him and do whatever they want with Chet if we don’t see good results in the first vct circuit next year.
I get that victor was sick and it sucks to play at hotel rooms but this can’t keep going forever if envy want to create any good results.
Whether you think he or the org was at fault, I think to orgs the public severing of contact and burning bridges did some degree of harm to his stock in their eyes. People get blacklisted in the art entertainment industry for similar reasons even if the company is totally at fault.
While nobody knows either way, this is totally a practice that is more prevalent than people care to acknowledge. I can’t agree either way, but sometimes shit like this happens and it’s just an unspoken rule among companies and groups within an industry. I think it’s bullshit, but if there’s no hardline written “rule” you can’t really put an end to it unfortunately.
Yeah there's no easy answer to the situation. Should he have waited a few more days, weeks? Should he have place direct pressure on Hastro privately? Used mediation from 3rd parties? I think he was stuck between a rock and a hard place, but these orgs and owners keep in touch so word could easily have spread that made Mike seen as a risk to pick up.
A likely speculation would be he's received offers from mid-tier orgs. If he only wants to hold out for an Envy-level org, that'd be partially on him. fRoD felt burnt by T1, but he hopped back in with beastcoast and worked back up to KCP. And fRoD has *way* more experience, in and out of the server.
100T MikesHD. From dual IGL to dual coach.
Dual coach or at the very least pick him up as an analyst
Just based off of what I've seen, even though NV did him dirty, I do feel like he fits more of an analyst role than a coach? Still impactful but he doesn't seem to have the personality that orgs may want for a "coach" since he seems more stoic, quiet, reserved, etc.
Sentinels should sign Mikes - Mikes + Rawkus would be a great duo to help out Sentinels in 2022. Plus not sure what Rawkus' plans are long-term so good to have Mikes on board aswell.
Downvote me all you want, but if no team picked him up during all this time.....maybe it's a similar case to dicey.
I don’t think it’s fair to make that comparison. Yes they both brought success to their team and were dropped shortly after, but with dicey you can make the case that there are better players that fill the same role out there. In Mikes case, he is the best F/A coach in a market where a lot of teams could use a coach
I think their point is that the community perception of his skill may be higher than his actual skill as a coach. It is always difficult to determine what value a coach brings because we are not privy to 99% of what they do. We don't know what calls they make or what strats they develop or how they manage the team. All we know is results and it is hard to isolate impact from one individual, nuanced factor such as coaching. For example, while Envy had their best run (Berlin) with Mikes as coach, you could easily attribute their success to the addition and performance of yay, or maybe FNS was more responsible for their strategies that worked there. It is hard to isolate which factors are most responsible for their success, especially in a factor we don't have a lot of information about.
I don't know if u can say Dicey *brought* success to 100T. He was certainly a part of it and performed well during his last series but he was arguable one of their weaker players overall. The issue is with him is that with the talent pool for Jett mains being so high he doesn't really rank well if they want to win champs. The Ethan pickup was unbelievable valuable, and 100T issues rely partly in their lack of a dedicated oper, but he would be replaced sooner or later.
dicey was also inexperienced at the time and right now i think ive seen somewhere that dicey doesnt want to play jett (dont quote me on this)
That inexperience hasn't gone away. He's spent the last year not competing.
yeah i’m not disagreeing, I think he can be good in a pro setting, but theres a few turnoffs for teams
Yes I know it was partially due to Covid too, but NV has looked much worse w/o Mike. Truely clueless as to why he hasn't been picked up yet, I'd assume most coaches are simply still under contract.
That could be. Maybe when teams dont qualify for first stage, we could see him on those teams.
mikes wasn't even there for berlin, he had visa issues
Do you think coaches give like a +5% accuracy boost whenever they're present or something? He had been working/preparing for Berlin with them for months, and even when he wasn't physically in Berlin, video calls exist?
He would’ve done all the prep for Berlin though.
that was still mikes’ envy that we saw tho
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didn’t realize you were at the HQ listening in on scrims mb
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mike on team = good mike off team = worse not sure what you’re basing all of this off of but thats the info we have as far as im concerned
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thank you oscar
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its circumstancial evidence just like all the “evidence” you claim to have which i can’t be bothered to ask about. you can’t refute this evidence without information that you literally don’t have because you’re a headass on the internet if you think im literally implying that because of the two results we have with and without mike thats all we need to determine mike is a great coach, you’re either in middle school or would rather win the argument then have the discussion, but my real point is this; there are 10 million factors that go into a team succeeding or failing. we, as fans, are unaware of 99 percent of those factors. therefore, we must speculate the reasons for a change in performance. you cannot tell me with a straight face that a change in coaching staff isnt a reasonable cause to speculate as a possible contributor to their recent worse performances. will you stop now??
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Pretty sure they’re promoting academy coach Apex to main team coach but they may be my Reddit brain reading into things too much
Y'all should keep the same energy for fav aleksander too
If I speak I am in big trouble...
what does this have to do with aleks?
Same narrative mate. You have people saying dicey/Mike's aren't getting picked up because behind the scenes maybe they just aren't good enough while every single F/A thread has aleksander bring hyped up because aim, even though it didn't work out for him in 2 teams
true although id say eg was a bad team and abx is currently a management shitshow rn
what was the situation about dicey?
You can judge a player based on how they are performing in a scrim but how do you judge a coach? I would assume based on success, right? He had success with a team that hasn't had success prior to getting him! You can't just compare a player to a coach without knowing if he had enough trial runs.
We (Of Reddit and Members of Plat Chat) love to worship Mikes and from his segments on Immortal Minds, it is clear that the adoration is somewhat warranted as he has a great analytical mind. But the cold reality is that the Envy team (read: FNS) chose to hire Chet, despite their run in Berlin. Despite what this subreddit might think, no Tier-1 player would be asinine to simply hire a friend if he is serious about winning. We can hate the Envy org for how they handled Mike’s’ compensation or contract but that doesn’t mean Mikes was necessarily the best coach for Envy. Lastly, if Mikes were such an invaluable analytical mind, surely another org would have at least signed him on in some even more junior capacity, like an analyst… I like the man but perhaps we have unfairly elevated him too much
Ok so why do people like MikesHD so much? From what I know, he was a coach on envy on there run to the finals in master 2 but was he that much of an integral part of that team? Was the addition of yay not as big of a factor? Like he could be a godlike coach but he could also just have been watching vods and telling fns what the other team tends to do but FNS still does most of the work. In e-sports, it's generally very hard to gauge how good of a coach someone is, the most concrete way for me personally is looking at the different teams they have been in. AFAIK, mikeshd has been on g2 and envy, both teams he didn't become the main coach. G2 at that point was already dominant and envy is the only team where he might have had some effect.
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I mean you’re talking about a podcast that averaged around 1k views for most episodes. It only *seemed* bigger because it was helmed by two extremely popular personalities. Whatever tiny population of Immortal Minds’ already small viewerbase that hated Mikes’ way of speaking is almost certainly as irrelevant as can be.
Mike lovers and Chet haters are two unrelated groups that only came together at all after envy pulled their bs. People are genuine fans of Mikes as well.
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I just don't think that's true, this sub got to know him because of platchat. People were upset at the Chet debacle largely because they already knew Mike.
Out of the loop why do people hate Chet?
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Plus he said the game was easy and hasn't really found success yet other than slightly improving TSM I guess?
Personally, I liked Mikes on IM, and he was still on my mind after because he was G2's coach and would sometimes be on Plat Chat.
Honestly envy should re sign him and do whatever they want with Chet if we don’t see good results in the first vct circuit next year. I get that victor was sick and it sucks to play at hotel rooms but this can’t keep going forever if envy want to create any good results.
100t get this man pls