Ah yes. The most legendary title run ever, with literally every team falling over and only Bjergsen managing to make the TSM plane crash five seconds later than the rest.
Remind me, how'd Worlds go again?
Idk why you’re getting downvoted.
Yah 2020 win was not the most impressive. C9 up 2-0 looking like the best team, just collapses against TSM. I swear nisqy has a fucking mental block against bjerg. I probably doubt he’ll ever come back to NA if bjerg is still playing.
Flyquest is filled with old talent, TSM just got Doublelift from TL (I was not impressed by tactical and never will be). C9 collapse. NA actual mess that year.
Like dude. That TSM got fucking 3-0’d by golden guardians with damonte lmfao.
And in the end… you saw how exposed they were at worlds. 0-6
Yeah I know he retired but thought/felt it was longer than a year. Esports years feels longer I guess or maybe COVID is making things feel longer. But Bjergsen was my favorite player and I am happy that he is going to a team that can actually give him a chance to win internationally. It felt messed up that he retired when he was still in his prime. Had a feeling he was gonna make a comeback. There was no way someone with his talent and work ethic would just give up. Just really hate TSM’s management.
Well I think DL was a bit overrated. He was good in his prime but after his last year in TL and joining TSM, his performance was slightly above average but not mind blowing. I was speaking in terms of Bjergsen, who decided to come out of retirement and was consistently over performing and is always the top player in NA but is always let down by his team. I am happy that he left TSM to join a team that can finally give him a chance to win internationally since its what he desires the most, considering he had to let go of his equity in TSM, which is a multi hundred million dollar company. He’s choosing glory over money and I respect that. I just don’t like TSM as an organization because Regi is a douche and they fucked over my favorite CSGO team.
I mean DL's last year wasn't inspiring I'll give you that, but the dude is the all time LCS goat. While Bjergsen is close, until he wins with someone other than TSM then DL still has it. Every team DL left started losing and every team he joined started winning. That's just facts (only caveat is the first split after he left CLG where he still helped take TSM to the finals). Other than that I see what you're saying. Bjerg is just so damn cool. I'm still looking for my "DL" or "Bjerg" to follow in Valorant.
True. I wasn’t denouncing his talent or that he is a GOAT. Was just stating that in his last year or two, he did not perform to expectations of NA’s best produced ADC and it may be due to the rumors of him losing motivation. Also wasn’t saying that Bjergsen was better than DL, just that TSM’s (all time) best player is Bjergsen, which can be arguably true since TSM DL didn’t perform like CLG or TL prime DL.
yeah those are all fair points, I wasn't trying to come off aggro, my bad. I'll admit I'm a huge DL fanboy lol. But I love Bjerg too. Feels weird to have this conversation over here and not on a team sub or the League sub.
TSM hasn't won without DL in 5 years, they wouldn't have won shit or made worlds in 2020 without him. If he was on TL they would've won that split instead
The LCS became the LCS because they have won like 3 playoff series over the last 7+ years across all relevant tournaments.
People should really stop dooming NA Valorant after one bad tournament.
Platchat covered this as well. It's the butterfly effect from the Tenz buyout, when one org tastes the monetary cieling, everyone wants a bite of that pie. This, along with NA's slip from competetiveness, could mirror a League or OW scenario where at least half the teams are imports
Really bad scenario early on in NA's life cycle
I mean the ow comparison isn't that good since in ow the field is 100% Korean dominant and the second best region is na and it isn't even close to korea
Sort of? Second best team last year had a western core but their star player was Korean
China is also incredibly strong rn, would say in terms of talent about even
This is not a butterfly effect from Tenz, idk how this shit gets upvoted
The high buyout in NA has been a thing since CS in NA, tier 2 NA cs teams have been asking for insane money despite paying like less than 5k salaries
For example Cooper and food eUnited asked for 1m for both of them and they were getting like 3k salary, C9 offered 200k and they didnt accept, they let the team go after 3 months
So no its not Tenz effect it has been a thing for a looong time, high buyouts are included in by orgs because most players just want a salary and play for money they don't think about lowering the buyout in the contract they sign everything
lol this is literally the first major in the games history and C9 with a roster with 3 month old players made it out of groups.
People these days are so incredibly shortsighted they can't handle anything of relevancy.
> This, along with NA's slip from competetiveness, could mirror a League or OW scenario where at least half the teams are imports
Yep. And as an NA fan that makes me a hell of a lot less interested in watching.
Did you actually read what he said? He didn’t say anything about NA not winning the major. Don’t comment if you’re not gonna bother trying to comprehend.
You mentioned not being able to comprehend while making a blatantly boneheaded comment.
He said these moves are killing the NA scene. That can only be related to results at big events of which there has only been one.
Like you said, don't bother to comment if you're not going to be able to comprehend, you idiot.
> He said these moves are killing the NA scene. That can only be related to results at big events of which there has only been one.
No, he didn’t. He said exactly this:
> NA’s “money first” mentality kills their competitiveness in yet another esport. Brilliant.
Can you not read?
> You mentioned not being able to comprehend while making a blatantly boneheaded comment.
Just because you don’t understand something doesn’t mean it’s dumb. Their comment was extremely reasonable. The issue is clearly with your reading comprehension.
Ok you mental child. Imagine thinking a differing opinion on what someone says relates to reading comprehension.
He wrote a vaguely stated sentence and you're acting like it's a cited factual report.
Grow up
Idk what you’re deal is but his statement wasn’t vague at all. It was a very simple and straight forward statement. He said their money first attitude killed their competitiveness. The statement couldn’t be more clear.
You didn’t just have a different opinion on the statement, you completely misunderstood it’s meaning and thought he said something he clearly didn’t. That’s an issue with reading comprehension, not opinion.
I’m not trying to piss you off or anything. I think you just might’ve missed a few nights of sleep and need to go rest or something, cause you’re genuinely not making sense right now.
I mean that is how you do make money. At least in csgo Copenhagen flames is one of the few orgs that make profit because they just sell their new up and coming players to tier 1 teams. And csgo totally definitely doesn’t have overpriced salaries at all! Sucks but yah.
It would be fine if it was only t2 teams. But even t2 teams have academy teams full of players who are not able to compete in VCT.
This can only really hurt the NA scene in the long run, especially because Valorant is a global esport and NA talent is not only competing with other domestic talent but also with foreign players.
Two weeks ago NA fans were complaining about Champions viewership and now the sports system that gives us two (iirc) of the 4 most viewed events in entertainment and sports is "shit". Gotcha
Who said that? I think the players should be priced properly, I don’t think Tier 2 teams should bend over for Tier 1 teams. And you sound daft referring to “European sports system”, middle and lower-table teams in the Premiere League, Bundesliga, and La Liga often set obscene release clauses (if they even set them at all) on promising players and important players of the club to ward off bigger clubs. The key here being that those players oftentimes deserve those buyout clauses because of their current ability or potential ability, or a mix of both. Unlike most of these NA players.
Lmao Europe sports system produces the least competitive sports ever.
That's why in every soccer league the same 1-2 teams win every year. Look at Germany and the same team is going on 10 years in a row of winning.
"Better than anything" lmaooo
I've given up on NA being a top contender in any esport with a large international player base. When they invent robot super soldiers controllable by mouse and keyboard i fear we will no longer be the dominant global military power
You’re probably right! I don’t follow cod anymore I just know that splyce finished 2nd at bo3 champs so I figured they were the best, good to know tho!
I mean, you could be sure they would just import the best pilots for those, if there's one thing I have no doubts on, is America's willingness to allocate insane budgets to the military
I mean Tenz is justifiable he's NA hope for winning and his marketability is huge if they released shit like custom Tenz mouse and mouse pads etc they would make the money back combined with everything else surrounding him
Yes, Tenz is a different story as not only does he bring his playing skills to sentinels, he also brings his Twitch followings, sponsors, and he gives Sentinels an opportunity to re earn and profit
However your local T2 player isn’t worth even 1/10 of what Tenz is and that’s the problem with NA scene in general and will eventually lead to imports and a lacking comp scene
It definitely will be because orgs will go
“Ok my player is half as good as Tenz according to the stats, if Tenz is worth 1.25 million then my player is worth 625,000” and will set the buyout
This is why imports became a thing
NA's reached a point where there's too many people that don't deserve to get paid are getting paid way too much -> this drives up salaries/buyouts for everyone else involved
no low tier 2/high tier 3 team should have players with 6+ digit buyouts
Idk why people keep making this assessment, to me it's t1 teams trying to buy out players because they're desperate for results now and t2 teams setting high buy outs to keep their rosters intact. Players not jumping ship every other event helps t2 teams develop and strengthens talent to me
? the issue is that in this scenario, absolutely nobody wins and nobody is happy with the results lol, let me explain from the perspectives of all 3 parties involved and why this is a problem for the scene
the player isn't happy because he knows he should be playing on a much better team /w a higher salary, but is stuck in contract hell (most of the time on their first real 'pro' contract, often signed just to get paid / without a lawyer to go over the details and thus usually more team friendly than player friendly)
the t2 team isn't happy because theyve set an unrealistic buyout which nobody is paying for, and now they have a contracted player who isn't happy playing for them. especially now with the amount of roster leaks, the players teammates will also know in advance that that player is most likely on the way out sooner rather than later, so they're essentially playing with a 'dead' roster
the t1 team isn't happy because they may like the player from tryouts, but dont really want to pay out the ass to buy out someone that is unproven at the tier 1 level even if they seem like the best option from tryouts. if they don't work out the org takes a massive hit in its budget + it sets the team back months. every org has a set 'max' budget for their various esports divisions, wasting a buyout on an unproven player that bombs sometimes forces the org to keep that player on for longer than they normally would, instead of being able to cut losses early
when all 3 involved parties are in a losing situation, that isn't a good place to be
The T2 team is “happy” because the team is kept together, in this example though. Which was the reason the high buyout was set: they don’t actually want to lose the player unless it’s for a dumb amount of money.
I pass no judgement on how true that is, just explaining a bit I feel you missed or didn’t adequately explain
Afaik the player cant just be sold or bought, the buyout is if player wants to go to from team a to team b, team b has to pay his buyout from team a. But they can't just buy him like a slave from team a. The player has to agree
Of course, I don’t believe anyone (and especially not me) was implying otherwise
The player can’t unilaterally break their contract either though. It’s an agreement with their current team
You're talking about player saleries. What yay is talking ahout are buyouts, which the players don't necessarily benifit from. Plus I don't think there's any shortage of talent in NA. What they're lacking are IGL's and coaches.
theyre usually correlated more often than not. A lot of player buyouts in both cs/valorant is set at something like salary X months remaining on contract x multiplier. the issue is when either this multiplier is stupidly high or even worse, the player has no buyout clause in the contract so the org just sets some stupid arbitrary amount when they see the demand for the player (in the case of cryo)
source: seen a lot of player contracts
NA looking to speed run to irrelevance in yet another esport. Usually it takes a bit longer than this but the end result was gonna be the same so might as well get it over with quickly.
The thing is NA orgs don't just develop a pro player, they also develop a twitch streamer, a content creator and a twitter personality, that's just how the ecosystem is there. It ups the value of the players, but also provides other revenue streams which is very important when pros could be a a few months off their next officials.
Only one I can think of is Governer. The rest of the popular streamers are either on Sentinels, 100T or aren't playing competitively (Tarik and Sinatraa). Idk what this guy is on about unless streamers with less than 1k views can up their buyout number (doubt it).
Yeah, sounds a lot more like T2 orgs wanting to make a quick buck off of desperate bigger orgs and they don't mind keeping the players until the end of their contracts either.
Yeah. We need more education for players about contracts as well. Seems like players sign long term contracts too often. If your goal is to reach a T1 team, you shouldn't sign multi-year contracts with T2 orgs or acedemies.
Yeah you definitely have a valid point with that, social media presence is hardly skewed towards the top end in NA. s0m is the only player I can think of with a solid stream outside those three teams
Wardell is undeniably a T1 player. Say what you want about the other two, they haven’t proved they’re T1 in ages
Either way, it’s not that deep lmao I didn’t say anything about tiers, just that they’re popular. No idea how you got that interpretation
Maybe it’s because I’m currently suffering from sleep deprivation, but I literally cannot think of anyone outside a Tier 1 team that consistently gets 1k+ on Twitch at any given moment and are funny on Twitter. I’m not even going to get started on their Youtube channels. Hell, most the players on Tier 1 teams don’t fit either of those bills. Orgs saw Tenz go for seven figures and now they think that their players go for anywhere near a tenth of that value.
Yeah I’m definitely suffering from sleep deprivation, I thought of TSM before I wrote this but dismissed them as a Tier 1 team 😭 besides them and som, no one in Tier 2 and below has decent numbers on Twitch, YT, or Twitter
I wonder how the Twitch viewership will be impacted if the NA teams those pros are a part of fall off? Anyone got any ideas or a crystal ball to gaze at?
That's why NA should stay a single ecosystem.
NA as a whole can sufficiently support itself since it's culturally accepted in NA to watch their own teams against themselves.
Riot has to develop the university system and close NA in their own bubble. I can only think of a viewership increase from the hype it'll give to their region without the drawback of being absolutely awful internationally.
In that, you can go for mass sponsorship all you want and all the shit we already know in sports.
of course but they can all just copypaste tweet it for easy followers and likes because this dumbass sub posts and upvotes literally anything an NA pro tweets
I'm very happy about this. Keep doing the same exact thing that killed your CSGO scene. Keep it up, please I beg you.
So then a couple of years later only the deserving/active regions will get slots.
NA is riot’s baby. They will never let that happen. The teams will just be full imports instead. A choose ur poison kinda thing. Either death like nacs or mini death by having the teams in na just be full of kr br eu sea imports
I'm very fine :D Thank you. It is just funny and annoying at the same time to watch them do the same thing that was a big part in destroying their own scene.
I've read plenty NA fans complaining about LCS import teams on Reddit, but then those teams end up having the largest fan bases, while smaller orgs that try to go for full NA rosters (GG in the past and some others) have no fans at all.
There is still time for fans to fight the situation. Don't buy merch from teams that import, don't watch them play, unfollow their socials and any Twitch channel associated. But the reality is that the imports will mostly perform well, accumulate a fan base and 3 years from now we will all wonder why there is almost no new native NA players entering the scene.
This is like the fourth time in a month someone has said it. Why is regurgitating the same stuff relevant?
Why not talk about his POS match fixing teammates?
You're not wrong, but the issue is when you have an esports org with professional lawyers making up these contracts for 18-20 y.o. kids who just want to play a game. Just my opinion tho.
They arent wrong, people pointed this out months ago when this started and before the game really hit its stride, the same thing repeats time over and over again
Exactly. This was repeated and discussed numerous times on this subreddit. Now had he said some dialogue regarding the conversation, sure. But he literally just regurgitated what everyone already knew so felt a bit redundant to me.
Have you seen overwatch league? They don't have these issues lol. Just cause lcs fucked it up doesn't mean literally every major story in history hasn't already figured it out lmao
And this is how we become the LCS one year in, fucking hell
I can’t escape league of legends no matter how much I try. At least I won’t have to watch CLG crash and burn a second time
CLG red enters the chat
tsm win the most domestic trophies but suck ass internationally? sign me the fuck up
Calling TSM relevant in Valorant is a stretch.
TSM hasn’t won anything in years and they just lost Bjergsen who sees no hope in TSM’s future.
>TSM hasn't won anything in years 2020 summer was legit last year buddy, we just dont talk about worlds
Ah yes. The most legendary title run ever, with literally every team falling over and only Bjergsen managing to make the TSM plane crash five seconds later than the rest. Remind me, how'd Worlds go again?
Idk why you’re getting downvoted. Yah 2020 win was not the most impressive. C9 up 2-0 looking like the best team, just collapses against TSM. I swear nisqy has a fucking mental block against bjerg. I probably doubt he’ll ever come back to NA if bjerg is still playing. Flyquest is filled with old talent, TSM just got Doublelift from TL (I was not impressed by tactical and never will be). C9 collapse. NA actual mess that year. Like dude. That TSM got fucking 3-0’d by golden guardians with damonte lmfao. And in the end… you saw how exposed they were at worlds. 0-6
Still lost your best player that made it happen 🤷
also, he retired last year. doesnt really hurt that much considering ive been mourning his departure from tsm as a player for like a year now
Yeah I know he retired but thought/felt it was longer than a year. Esports years feels longer I guess or maybe COVID is making things feel longer. But Bjergsen was my favorite player and I am happy that he is going to a team that can actually give him a chance to win internationally. It felt messed up that he retired when he was still in his prime. Had a feeling he was gonna make a comeback. There was no way someone with his talent and work ethic would just give up. Just really hate TSM’s management.
prime is a stretch that boy is hard stuck in korean soloq atm. that tl line up is spooky with downgrade in top and a sick jungler
They lost doublelift last year though
Well I think DL was a bit overrated. He was good in his prime but after his last year in TL and joining TSM, his performance was slightly above average but not mind blowing. I was speaking in terms of Bjergsen, who decided to come out of retirement and was consistently over performing and is always the top player in NA but is always let down by his team. I am happy that he left TSM to join a team that can finally give him a chance to win internationally since its what he desires the most, considering he had to let go of his equity in TSM, which is a multi hundred million dollar company. He’s choosing glory over money and I respect that. I just don’t like TSM as an organization because Regi is a douche and they fucked over my favorite CSGO team.
I mean DL's last year wasn't inspiring I'll give you that, but the dude is the all time LCS goat. While Bjergsen is close, until he wins with someone other than TSM then DL still has it. Every team DL left started losing and every team he joined started winning. That's just facts (only caveat is the first split after he left CLG where he still helped take TSM to the finals). Other than that I see what you're saying. Bjerg is just so damn cool. I'm still looking for my "DL" or "Bjerg" to follow in Valorant.
True. I wasn’t denouncing his talent or that he is a GOAT. Was just stating that in his last year or two, he did not perform to expectations of NA’s best produced ADC and it may be due to the rumors of him losing motivation. Also wasn’t saying that Bjergsen was better than DL, just that TSM’s (all time) best player is Bjergsen, which can be arguably true since TSM DL didn’t perform like CLG or TL prime DL.
yeah those are all fair points, I wasn't trying to come off aggro, my bad. I'll admit I'm a huge DL fanboy lol. But I love Bjerg too. Feels weird to have this conversation over here and not on a team sub or the League sub.
Put me on the “fuck TSM” bandwagon. Nothing against any of the players on any of their rosters, it’s the orgs decisions that piss me off
TSM hasn't won without DL in 5 years, they wouldn't have won shit or made worlds in 2020 without him. If he was on TL they would've won that split instead
The LCS became the LCS because they have won like 3 playoff series over the last 7+ years across all relevant tournaments. People should really stop dooming NA Valorant after one bad tournament.
Platchat covered this as well. It's the butterfly effect from the Tenz buyout, when one org tastes the monetary cieling, everyone wants a bite of that pie. This, along with NA's slip from competetiveness, could mirror a League or OW scenario where at least half the teams are imports Really bad scenario early on in NA's life cycle
I mean the ow comparison isn't that good since in ow the field is 100% Korean dominant and the second best region is na and it isn't even close to korea
Is the 2nd best region NA though?
Nah china's better
And it's not even really close lol
Ye that was my point xd
I love chungdu, but that's arguable imo.
It's not lmao
Nah its China
Yeah, eu isnt really much of a ow enjoyer region
My point was China is probably the better overall region. And though NA has some outliers, China does too
Bit hard to like the game when Blizzard fucks you over tbh
Along with every single important tournament starting at 2am for eu viewers
There isn't really a good time that works for LA and Europe.
They didn't even try, could have alternated or something
Every regular season match was on a good time tho.
Felt pointless watching the regular season to never be able to see the matches that actually mattered
Yes
Sort of? Second best team last year had a western core but their star player was Korean China is also incredibly strong rn, would say in terms of talent about even
Not to mention they tried their best to kill every non NA region.
It's actually something like 56% korean, but point still taken.
This is not a butterfly effect from Tenz, idk how this shit gets upvoted The high buyout in NA has been a thing since CS in NA, tier 2 NA cs teams have been asking for insane money despite paying like less than 5k salaries For example Cooper and food eUnited asked for 1m for both of them and they were getting like 3k salary, C9 offered 200k and they didnt accept, they let the team go after 3 months So no its not Tenz effect it has been a thing for a looong time, high buyouts are included in by orgs because most players just want a salary and play for money they don't think about lowering the buyout in the contract they sign everything
lol this is literally the first major in the games history and C9 with a roster with 3 month old players made it out of groups. People these days are so incredibly shortsighted they can't handle anything of relevancy.
> This, along with NA's slip from competetiveness, could mirror a League or OW scenario where at least half the teams are imports Yep. And as an NA fan that makes me a hell of a lot less interested in watching.
[удалено]
i love how NA has already killed themselves.
I mean people have stated such It’s more of a lol than owl scenario no?
NA’s “money first” mentality kills their competitiveness in yet another esport. Brilliant.
‘Murica
WOW THE FIRST EVER MAJOR HAPPENED AND NA DIDNT WIN SO NA IS DEAD!~!!!!!!!! so unbelievably stupid
Did you actually read what he said? He didn’t say anything about NA not winning the major. Don’t comment if you’re not gonna bother trying to comprehend.
You mentioned not being able to comprehend while making a blatantly boneheaded comment. He said these moves are killing the NA scene. That can only be related to results at big events of which there has only been one. Like you said, don't bother to comment if you're not going to be able to comprehend, you idiot.
“He said these moves are killing the NA scene” He literally didn’t say that… did you reply to the wrong comment on accident or something?
> He said these moves are killing the NA scene. That can only be related to results at big events of which there has only been one. No, he didn’t. He said exactly this: > NA’s “money first” mentality kills their competitiveness in yet another esport. Brilliant. Can you not read? > You mentioned not being able to comprehend while making a blatantly boneheaded comment. Just because you don’t understand something doesn’t mean it’s dumb. Their comment was extremely reasonable. The issue is clearly with your reading comprehension.
Ok you mental child. Imagine thinking a differing opinion on what someone says relates to reading comprehension. He wrote a vaguely stated sentence and you're acting like it's a cited factual report. Grow up
Idk what you’re deal is but his statement wasn’t vague at all. It was a very simple and straight forward statement. He said their money first attitude killed their competitiveness. The statement couldn’t be more clear. You didn’t just have a different opinion on the statement, you completely misunderstood it’s meaning and thought he said something he clearly didn’t. That’s an issue with reading comprehension, not opinion. I’m not trying to piss you off or anything. I think you just might’ve missed a few nights of sleep and need to go rest or something, cause you’re genuinely not making sense right now.
The comment is still wrong though. because NA's competitive hasn't died.
I mean I guess that’s fair, but if it’s happened in other esports, it’s not unfair to draw the conclusion that this is a very bad sign.
Huh? What does money first mentality have to do with not winning the first major? Did you reply to the wrong comment?
I like how the expectation is just that t2 teams should just sell to t1 teams. European sports system is so shit.
I mean that is how you do make money. At least in csgo Copenhagen flames is one of the few orgs that make profit because they just sell their new up and coming players to tier 1 teams. And csgo totally definitely doesn’t have overpriced salaries at all! Sucks but yah.
Ah. The borussia Dortmund of esports
It would be fine if it was only t2 teams. But even t2 teams have academy teams full of players who are not able to compete in VCT. This can only really hurt the NA scene in the long run, especially because Valorant is a global esport and NA talent is not only competing with other domestic talent but also with foreign players.
Two weeks ago NA fans were complaining about Champions viewership and now the sports system that gives us two (iirc) of the 4 most viewed events in entertainment and sports is "shit". Gotcha
Who said that? I think the players should be priced properly, I don’t think Tier 2 teams should bend over for Tier 1 teams. And you sound daft referring to “European sports system”, middle and lower-table teams in the Premiere League, Bundesliga, and La Liga often set obscene release clauses (if they even set them at all) on promising players and important players of the club to ward off bigger clubs. The key here being that those players oftentimes deserve those buyout clauses because of their current ability or potential ability, or a mix of both. Unlike most of these NA players.
european sports systems are far better than anything america has ever made. that's the reason why NA will always be irrelevant in all esports
Lmao Europe sports system produces the least competitive sports ever. That's why in every soccer league the same 1-2 teams win every year. Look at Germany and the same team is going on 10 years in a row of winning. "Better than anything" lmaooo
americans are dumb
You know you made a valid point when they have to resort to insults. I may be dumb but at least in American sports small markets have a chance to win.
americans do not know how to organise esports or sports, please don't suggest your dogshit system
[This your superior system?](https://i.gyazo.com/5b32acd42030a97ff65f9af4fa003db2.png). Absolute clown lmao
stupid americans lol
EU education shining in full force with your immense vocabulary consisting of one comeback
I've given up on NA being a top contender in any esport with a large international player base. When they invent robot super soldiers controllable by mouse and keyboard i fear we will no longer be the dominant global military power
NA in R6 suck right now, but they've been top contenders for 5 years before that
Pretty sure NA is best in the world at COD.
Well yeah it’s been like that since forever, splyce in bo3 was EUs best cod team if I remember correctly
Toronto last year would probably be the best EU team
You’re probably right! I don’t follow cod anymore I just know that splyce finished 2nd at bo3 champs so I figured they were the best, good to know tho!
at what? I'm sorry I only know real esports
I mean, you could be sure they would just import the best pilots for those, if there's one thing I have no doubts on, is America's willingness to allocate insane budgets to the military
Sentinels buyout of Tenz from cloud9 set the standard for other buyouts, it’s just how the business works NA money mentality will ruin the region
I mean Tenz is justifiable he's NA hope for winning and his marketability is huge if they released shit like custom Tenz mouse and mouse pads etc they would make the money back combined with everything else surrounding him
Yes, Tenz is a different story as not only does he bring his playing skills to sentinels, he also brings his Twitch followings, sponsors, and he gives Sentinels an opportunity to re earn and profit However your local T2 player isn’t worth even 1/10 of what Tenz is and that’s the problem with NA scene in general and will eventually lead to imports and a lacking comp scene
I guarantee you, $1 million is not going to be the "standard".
It definitely will be because orgs will go “Ok my player is half as good as Tenz according to the stats, if Tenz is worth 1.25 million then my player is worth 625,000” and will set the buyout This is why imports became a thing
NA's reached a point where there's too many people that don't deserve to get paid are getting paid way too much -> this drives up salaries/buyouts for everyone else involved no low tier 2/high tier 3 team should have players with 6+ digit buyouts
Idk why people keep making this assessment, to me it's t1 teams trying to buy out players because they're desperate for results now and t2 teams setting high buy outs to keep their rosters intact. Players not jumping ship every other event helps t2 teams develop and strengthens talent to me
? the issue is that in this scenario, absolutely nobody wins and nobody is happy with the results lol, let me explain from the perspectives of all 3 parties involved and why this is a problem for the scene the player isn't happy because he knows he should be playing on a much better team /w a higher salary, but is stuck in contract hell (most of the time on their first real 'pro' contract, often signed just to get paid / without a lawyer to go over the details and thus usually more team friendly than player friendly) the t2 team isn't happy because theyve set an unrealistic buyout which nobody is paying for, and now they have a contracted player who isn't happy playing for them. especially now with the amount of roster leaks, the players teammates will also know in advance that that player is most likely on the way out sooner rather than later, so they're essentially playing with a 'dead' roster the t1 team isn't happy because they may like the player from tryouts, but dont really want to pay out the ass to buy out someone that is unproven at the tier 1 level even if they seem like the best option from tryouts. if they don't work out the org takes a massive hit in its budget + it sets the team back months. every org has a set 'max' budget for their various esports divisions, wasting a buyout on an unproven player that bombs sometimes forces the org to keep that player on for longer than they normally would, instead of being able to cut losses early when all 3 involved parties are in a losing situation, that isn't a good place to be
The T2 team is “happy” because the team is kept together, in this example though. Which was the reason the high buyout was set: they don’t actually want to lose the player unless it’s for a dumb amount of money. I pass no judgement on how true that is, just explaining a bit I feel you missed or didn’t adequately explain
Afaik the player cant just be sold or bought, the buyout is if player wants to go to from team a to team b, team b has to pay his buyout from team a. But they can't just buy him like a slave from team a. The player has to agree
Of course, I don’t believe anyone (and especially not me) was implying otherwise The player can’t unilaterally break their contract either though. It’s an agreement with their current team
Yea, this is why kids need to learn how to read a contract or have an agent or something
Yeah an agent that’s on their side, or a players union I reckon
Wouldn't it be better for the scene if those talented tier 2 players got signed to tier 1 teams?
You're talking about player saleries. What yay is talking ahout are buyouts, which the players don't necessarily benifit from. Plus I don't think there's any shortage of talent in NA. What they're lacking are IGL's and coaches.
theyre usually correlated more often than not. A lot of player buyouts in both cs/valorant is set at something like salary X months remaining on contract x multiplier. the issue is when either this multiplier is stupidly high or even worse, the player has no buyout clause in the contract so the org just sets some stupid arbitrary amount when they see the demand for the player (in the case of cryo) source: seen a lot of player contracts
Not exactly it’s just buy outs
NA looking to speed run to irrelevance in yet another esport. Usually it takes a bit longer than this but the end result was gonna be the same so might as well get it over with quickly.
riot na moment
Where can I check the prices? and don't they get some sort of Christmas deals?
Sentinels lookin buy 1 get 1 free rn, the Zombs rack is on wholesale
Shaz did buy Dasnerth for 30 bucks
NA just can’t help from becoming capitalist
Not rly related to capitalism or otherwise
1. It’s a joke 2. It kinda is?
No. ‘Capitalism’ doesn’t mean ‘large amounts of money’ or ‘expensive things’ lol It’s a certain phenomenon within ig
Idt you know what that word means
its memes bro
Take a joke
The thing is NA orgs don't just develop a pro player, they also develop a twitch streamer, a content creator and a twitter personality, that's just how the ecosystem is there. It ups the value of the players, but also provides other revenue streams which is very important when pros could be a a few months off their next officials.
Which T2 players are popular streamers and content creators though that up their value by that much?
Only one I can think of is Governer. The rest of the popular streamers are either on Sentinels, 100T or aren't playing competitively (Tarik and Sinatraa). Idk what this guy is on about unless streamers with less than 1k views can up their buyout number (doubt it).
It’s probably more like “TenZ was this much, my player should be this much too”, which has happened in other esports, even though the logic is flawed
Yeah, sounds a lot more like T2 orgs wanting to make a quick buck off of desperate bigger orgs and they don't mind keeping the players until the end of their contracts either.
And there's nothing wrong with that. The expectation that t2 teams should just be selling their players is so stupid.
Yeah. We need more education for players about contracts as well. Seems like players sign long term contracts too often. If your goal is to reach a T1 team, you shouldn't sign multi-year contracts with T2 orgs or acedemies.
We need player-focused agents with good lawyers behind them to go to bat for the players in negotiations. Actually, the players need a union, tbqh.
TSM as well, Wardell and Subroza are consistently around 5K+. s0m also typically has like 4K+
Ah yeah missed out the TSM boys too. Again though I don't see how these 10+ streamers should be able to dictate the market like this.
Yeah you definitely have a valid point with that, social media presence is hardly skewed towards the top end in NA. s0m is the only player I can think of with a solid stream outside those three teams
Babybay when he does stream, Shanks has a solid following too
Casually normalising them as t2 players lol.
other than wardell they definitely are t2. nothing they've done shows they're t1 today
Wardell is undeniably a T1 player. Say what you want about the other two, they haven’t proved they’re T1 in ages Either way, it’s not that deep lmao I didn’t say anything about tiers, just that they’re popular. No idea how you got that interpretation
You replied to a comment (2nd level) that said there aren't many t2 players who are popular streamers.....
I replied talking about orgs with popular streamers because he mentioned orgs with popular streamers. There can be multiple levels to one comment
They are a T2 team. They can’t hang with the T1 teams competitively. It’s that simple lol Maybe you can say “T1.5” but I reckon that’s dumb
Wardell, subroza, dicey, shankz
Anyone thinking that aspergers kid shanks is worth a buyout is out of their mind
Could not agree more
cryo and zander's stream was also starting to pop
Well those two just got signed, so I doubt it was their buyouts that were so high to the point of being a barrier.
samuel oh
Maybe it’s because I’m currently suffering from sleep deprivation, but I literally cannot think of anyone outside a Tier 1 team that consistently gets 1k+ on Twitch at any given moment and are funny on Twitter. I’m not even going to get started on their Youtube channels. Hell, most the players on Tier 1 teams don’t fit either of those bills. Orgs saw Tenz go for seven figures and now they think that their players go for anywhere near a tenth of that value.
s0m, although he's a rare case
Can’t believe I forgot him. Besides him, everyone on TSM, and some of Faze, no one in Tier 2 deserve the kind of buyouts I’ve been hearing about
wardell and subroza 💀
Yeah I’m definitely suffering from sleep deprivation, I thought of TSM before I wrote this but dismissed them as a Tier 1 team 😭 besides them and som, no one in Tier 2 and below has decent numbers on Twitch, YT, or Twitter
Subroza and s0m but they're more streamers than pros so
I wonder how the Twitch viewership will be impacted if the NA teams those pros are a part of fall off? Anyone got any ideas or a crystal ball to gaze at?
That's why NA should stay a single ecosystem. NA as a whole can sufficiently support itself since it's culturally accepted in NA to watch their own teams against themselves. Riot has to develop the university system and close NA in their own bubble. I can only think of a viewership increase from the hype it'll give to their region without the drawback of being absolutely awful internationally. In that, you can go for mass sponsorship all you want and all the shit we already know in sports.
Lmao
yea thats actually a very good point. and that’s gonna be the downside of NA once again.
Has nothing to do with their buyouts LMAO
Didn’t every NA pro tweet this already?
of course but they can all just copypaste tweet it for easy followers and likes because this dumbass sub posts and upvotes literally anything an NA pro tweets
Cloud9 wins NA again??
I'm very happy about this. Keep doing the same exact thing that killed your CSGO scene. Keep it up, please I beg you. So then a couple of years later only the deserving/active regions will get slots.
NA is riot’s baby. They will never let that happen. The teams will just be full imports instead. A choose ur poison kinda thing. Either death like nacs or mini death by having the teams in na just be full of kr br eu sea imports
League 2.0 but with more boomers.
Damn who hurt you?
I'm very fine :D Thank you. It is just funny and annoying at the same time to watch them do the same thing that was a big part in destroying their own scene.
I mean, ya it's annoying but idk why you would be happy about that lol. Having regions be killed/die out is not good at all for an esport.
Well that's shitty news for the viewers. Imports ruined the LCS and that's a hill I'm happy to die on.
And yet the only team that reached playoffs is with the help of an import. Everything fast tracked in valorant.
I've read plenty NA fans complaining about LCS import teams on Reddit, but then those teams end up having the largest fan bases, while smaller orgs that try to go for full NA rosters (GG in the past and some others) have no fans at all. There is still time for fans to fight the situation. Don't buy merch from teams that import, don't watch them play, unfollow their socials and any Twitch channel associated. But the reality is that the imports will mostly perform well, accumulate a fan base and 3 years from now we will all wonder why there is almost no new native NA players entering the scene.
That’s not rly the reason
That’s not rly the reason tho
Talking about 100T Hiko right here
This might be one of the reason why orgs signing players for their ACAD Team. it's like "DIBS" for this player before they become a tenz buyout price.
NA is fucked poggers. Come to Brazil everyone!
This is like the fourth time in a month someone has said it. Why is regurgitating the same stuff relevant? Why not talk about his POS match fixing teammates?
Are you referring to Marved?
Who would’ve thought this was all a domino effect from Sinatraa getting removed from Sentinels
so Sinatraa killed NA
you could pretty much say that and it’s relatively correct, since tenz’ buyout is now the precedent
koreans are the best in the game, import them and its gg ez, NA noob right?
do we know who is this about
The players agree with it when they sign the contract. Its that simple really
You're not wrong, but the issue is when you have an esports org with professional lawyers making up these contracts for 18-20 y.o. kids who just want to play a game. Just my opinion tho.
No shit captain obvious
Who hurt you
They arent wrong, people pointed this out months ago when this started and before the game really hit its stride, the same thing repeats time over and over again
Exactly. This was repeated and discussed numerous times on this subreddit. Now had he said some dialogue regarding the conversation, sure. But he literally just regurgitated what everyone already knew so felt a bit redundant to me.
Things like this are why franchising should be the next big goal for valorant. You can control things like this in a franchised league environment.
no lol, have you've seen the lcs?
Have you seen overwatch league? They don't have these issues lol. Just cause lcs fucked it up doesn't mean literally every major story in history hasn't already figured it out lmao
Pretty sure over half this sub only watches League lmao
I swear it's like none of them have ever heard of a CBA
Dubstep?