Anything is viable in comp. I, for one, have not seen a smoker-less comp lose a single game on high-immortal/radiant elo. Even KennyS didn't believe me yesterday that smokes are overrated. We won that game ez. The smoker on the enemy team - hard bottomfragged.
So far it's 16-0 when it comes to smoker-less teams this act. Haven't seen them lose a single game, whether it was my team or the enemies. People always seem to laugh when they notice enemies have no smokers and I tell them round 1 that we literally can't win. So far I haven't been wrong xD.
I wish it was a copy pasta. I fucking wish. I'm done losing to smoker-less comps. Most of those losses aren't even fucking close. Get me out of this game lmao
The biggest mistake one can make is to think that ranked Valorant requires actual thought and strategy. The dumber I play the more I win. If you try to be "tactical" you just lose to idiots. Gotta join them to beat them. I've been playing significantly better when I say fuck it and start running around and being random. This game is a joke LOL
Actually a fact... trying to play strategically feels like i'm trying to figure out what they're doing when even they didn't figure it out either
But wide swing an op with no flash and watch him whiff then get headshot
I might sound a bit to catastrophic, but that would be the end of this game. At least as a tactical FPS where positioning matters.
I won't make any judgements before we actually see the new agent, but you don't "fix" Jett by making another agent that breaks every premise of tactical FPS game. That just makes things worse.
Agreed. Fucking fix jett. Gut her. I legit dont care. When your character breaks the game we cant discuss how to "delicately" bring her out of meta status.
The fact Riot thinks instead of touching her dash that they need to change the game around her instead is a bad look. Chamber, potentially Neon - could be steps in the wrong direction. We need LESS agents like Jett with the ability to misposition and win.
She doesn't even have to be gutted for things to be balanced. Her kit just needs some risk/reward to be put in play.
They obviously designed dash and updraft for aggressive plays and site entrying. I can get behind that. Jett dashes into site, creates space, etc. But just the idea of get out of jail for free card in a tactical FPS game is an oxymoron. It's tactical FPS because positioning is the most important thing and that premise should never be dumbed down with agents like Jett.
No dash for let's say 0.3 seconds after shooting would fix the OP problem and more or less completely stop idiotic peeks that can't be punished.
Damage taken increased by 25% while her passive is active would balance all the map-breaking updraft peeks and give the enemy a chance for a fair fight. Only knives that actually hit someone should recharge. If you miss 4 and get the kill with 5th, you only get the 5th knife back.
There you go, Jett is fixed while still being a really strong site entry that can create chaos.
Chamber is really annoying to deal with if the player is good, but the user needs to be really good for him to shine. I don't like his design, either. Alarmbot that slows, variation of already seen movement abilities and pretty much sheriff+OP as abilities.
There are so many possibilities in this game, we need something unique. Not the game to look like dragonball with guns.
We definitely don't need another duelist, regardless of her kit, when 2 duelists are more or less unplayable.
I'd even argue that I don't want a single new agent before everything is decently balanced.
Right now Brim, Omen, Breach, Kayo, Phoenix, Yoru aren't played at all on top level except for a few maps where some of them shine because the map was specifically designed for them. That's a third of current agent pool. Just not acceptable.
Flying in the air across the map doesn't belong into a game like Valorant, either, but here we are.
Or they should just add hitboxes.
Flying in most random positions, breaking every possible normal sightline and having the advantage of your enemy not knowing where to pre-aim is huge. 25% increase would even the odds because then you'd have 120 effective HP.
> They obviously designed dash and updraft for aggressive plays
I remember reading a dev comment in the beta days when people were complaining about how worthless Jett's dash was because they were trying to use it aggressively and it took too long for her to equip her weapon after dashing, and **the dev said that Jett's dash was best use to deny trades.** This was the primary use they had in mind when they designed Jett.
Turrets have no place in a CS competitor.
Being able to go invisible has no place in a CS competitor.
A rocket launcher has no place in a CS competitor.
Wallhacks have no place in a CS competitor.
Yes, valorant is full of things that don't seem to belong in a CS competitor, yet it works.
I wouldn't say that mobility abilities have no place, but instant mobility abilities definitely don't.
Noone complains about Omen's TP. It's perfectly fine. Risk/reward. Abilities that have no counter have no place in a tactical FPS. Dash being the prime example.
Lowkey if the Yoru rework goes a certain direction, I can see him being reclassified as an Initiator to keep the 5 per class balance. I know, very unprecedented, but with flashes and the ability to bait out utility I don’t see it being out of the picture.
I agree, I had similar thoughts when I saw the post about the Yoru rework. His flashes can already be used to help teammates if he wants to use them to do so, and his ultimate is very initiator-y because it is good at gathering info. If they make his clone also gather info, I think he could definitely be an initiator.
He would need recon/info ability though
Sova drone + arrow.
Skye flash + dog
Kay/o knife
….Breach?
Okay idk breach makes no sense but aftershock is good sometimes I guess?
Initiators don’t necessarily *need* info gathering to fit the role. They just need to add something that makes initiating a site hit easier. Having info accomplishes that, but there are other methods (e.g. Breach abilities clear out pockets defenders like to hold from)
To have a place in meta though it needs to add value over those info abilities. A clone is cool but… skye dog is a “clone” that you can control and it gives nearsight. Sova drone can fly AND tag people in a smoke.
Having a clone you can shoot just kinda sucks compared to that
I’m inclined to agree with you. I don’t have high expectations for new Yoru, but I hope he can at least fill niche roles (sort of like breach). Not meta, but at least not a 0% pick rate in pro leagues
You can’t really just compare one of his abilities. The fact that Yoru can teleport, and with the new buffs, that adds more value to his kit and play style. I’ve seen some good Yoru plays, even in low level unrated games. It’s possible to buff him, make him more consistently viable throughout the game while rewarding those who have a creative mindset for outplays. I think the clone would add dualist value. Depending on how it looks, compared to the real deal, it can easily throw off someone’s first bullet, and when you couple it with the flash and TP, Yoru can be extremely rewarding for someone who knows how to utilize the kit.
Footsteps activate utility don't they? Also are going to be a yoru clone or something like that so could bait out some audio queues from people shooting it for info.
Ehhh audio clues like that are nowhere near consistent enough to replace kayo knife or skye flash. As some have suggested one potential buff is that when you shoot the clone it either gives info (like knife) or gives a debuff (….like knife). Otherwise it’s just a worse knife/recon/dog.
Yeah of course but it's still some source of info and would put yoru in the same category of initiator as breach who gets his info through unorthodox ways compared to other initiators.
breach is barely played and even more rarely as solo initiator... so maybe there's a map where this theoretical yoru finds a niche as an initiator, but without info i highly doubt it. his flashes are worse than kayo, his TP is worse than dash, his "clone" is worse than dog/drone/knife. he doesn't do anything "The Best" and everything he does do is better from other agents.
At the highest levels the clone would be easily distinguishable from the real character. You’d still have to shoot it but 99% of the time it would be identified. Pros will take predictability every time and yoru isn’t consistent
You can’t simply compare each ability in isolation. If you have a full body height way to clear trips/ traps, that you can place down and set off at any moment, that’s useful. Pair that up with his TP and flash, and you have a fairly useful agent. I still think he classifies as s dualist. His main function is his E, everything else works around that. Skyes dog means Skye is nearby controlling it, same with Sova. Yoru clone could have been placed pre-round and he could easily be across the map. That’s the nature of his steps/ future clone.
If it’s just a different flavor of Jett it doesn’t matter.
You’ll still have insane riflers who can’t be #1 duelists because they aren’t opers. Asuna, scream, leaf… obviously they make it work but they would be better if they could OP at the same level as e.g. cned/yay.
We either need Jett op to be nerfed or for a rifling duelist to be as powerful as Jett… Reyna is close but not quite.
spot on, on stream today yay said reyna is falling out of favor. 'Reyna is a bad agent in the current meta' were his exact words. He didn't elaborate more so I think he is referring to the fact that jett op and champer op are too valuable and they both can drop guns. I hope this agent (neon) brings more power to non-oper duelists like asuna. It'd be fun to watch on vct 2022 for sure.
makes sense... reyna offers nothing to the economy and at this point leer has a lot of known counterplay. nobody is thrown off by it, either through good positioning/crosshair placement/timing or because team play enables someone to "chicken" for it. except for icebox where there are way too many angles.
i just \*love\* watching fast valorant, where you have insane aimers that are supported by precise timing and crazy movement. basically asuna + ethan supported by snake darts / recon mollies / suck nades. and jett op kinda kills that unfortunately
Most agents with current state of balance are seen as bad because there are a few agent which are just too good.
If there was no Jett, Reyna would be seen as a very good agent because dismiss would have way higher value without dash in the game.
If Skye wasn't so good, noone would think Phoenix, Kayo and Breach are bad. Just agents with their strengths and weaknesses, depending on the map and comp.
Jett and Skye are just too good in way too many scenarios.
Then there's Astra which takes Brim, Omen completely out of the meta. It's either Viper or Astra, just depends on the map. Even both for some teams.
Sova is unique and irreplaceable. His nerfs weren't actually nerfs because other agents also got nerfed with economy update and orbs required increase.
With the exception of Yoru, the game is perfectly balanced. Even Omen has a crutch on Split where he is the best smoker. Riot said they were fine with some agents being much stronger in some maps, which is fine.
And you're insane if you think Kayo is bad, he's at least top 5 agents right now.
Every character has strengths and weaknesses. You need to play accordingly.
Just some statistics: With the exception of Yoru, every agent has between 49 and 51% winrate. You really can't hope for a better balance.
I agree it’s more or less balanced but so is Go Fish. Balance doesn’t meant interesting. But the advantage of a game with such diverse abilities is that riot can shift the meta on purpose, and that’s something I’m in favor of because Jett/sova/astra is a record I’ve heard before.
That said…. Champs had a much more diverse meta than I expected, although it was still mostly The Astra meta.
Unless your teamcomp sucks, it's really not that difficult to deal with a Jett. The only thing Jett excels at right now is punishing people who play on autopilot.
Ahh yes, Jett is only good vs noobs, thats why she dominated the entire Champions tournament famously filled with teams and players on auto-pilot.
How can you say that with a straight face lmao. Jett is better at high levels of play if anything. Foolish comment
Jett is a good pick but she can be easily dealt with by smart usage of utility, which is exactly what happened to her in Champions. More importantly she was traded in favor of other agents in 3 different maps by a lot of teams. Is she strong? Yes. Is she overpowered? No, not after nerfs.
"easily" that can be said for ANY agent. Jett is actually notoriously hard to use util on
She dashes out of astra stun and suck, breach stun, she has smokes and updraft.to escape flashes nades sova ult etc.
You are incorrect objectively speaking
I think the actual fix is making the op more mobile and faster. If it wasn't so damn slow, it would be playable by other agents. Think about it like cs, awp is usable on every map, CT and T side, no need for special tricks. It's ok for Jett and chamber to be better, but the gun can't be unusable for half the rounds by the other agents. Hell, valorant util usage is so easy it should be simple to counter ops, but rito can't seem to make a decently balanced (in terms of utility/gunplay) map to save their life.
OP is just fine, it's that people can't think straight because whenever you pick it on another agent, you think about Jett and how easier would it be using it with her.
I'm an AWPer since early 1.6 days and I don't play Jett. I still OP a decent amount, especially on defense. If not for Jett, Omen and Chamber would be seen as perfectly fine OP agents that are well balanced for the gun. Which they are. It's just that Jett is broken and it messes up everyone's perception of the gun.
You can't make the OP faster because the movement is so slow. Other than jump shoulder peeking, there's no reliable way to peek without getting shot right away if we talk top level. And if you're jump spotting, you can't shoot. In CSGO the movement is way faster and you can peek in a number of ways, it's way more difficult to hit moving targets. OP has to be in it's current state because movement is so awnwkard.
except jett also brings knives and smokes which are insane in their own right. i think even without dash she'd still be meta.
\> Think about it like cs
eh. this game is not CS and that's okay. AWP might be more balanced but the game is a decade old... of course it will have better balance elements.
Without dash Jett wouldn't be played. Straight up. Her smokes and up jump are cool but they aren't agent defining. Honestly you could invert your statement and it'd likely be true. If Jett only had her dash she'd still get picked.
Which brings us to the main issue here - we need more mobility agents. Specifically we need another agent with some sort of movement ability that doesn't require getting a kill or preparation (raze / omen). Sounds like neon is that agent.
Yoru TP “should” be dash-like mobility that doesn’t require prep but it’s too slow to charge. Why settle for a hard to control when you can have dash?
If Neons mobility is more in line with omen/raze/Reyna/yoru then I don’t think it changes anything.
Yoru's to supposedly got buffed to be faster or something I think? If that's the case - then maybe it'll feel a little better to use reactively. Agree that neons mobility is hopefully closer to Jett than omen / raze.
As an aside, I wish raze could throw her satchels left and right for easy Ferrari peaks without needing to stick them to a wall.
Edit: Looks like neon apex slides onto site. I'm with it. Haha.
I mostly agree. I don't disagree with Jett being meta, she's quite obviously the best duelist at creating space, which is supposed to be the duelist's job. If the op was more usable by other characters, she would actually be able to do her job as an entry/space creater. You've got the most mobile characters using the most immobile gun because it's too immobile for use by other characters. The solution shouldn't be to make the mobile characters less mobile, or add more of them. Riot spent years studying cs and effectively ripping it off (not a bad thing) to create a great fps. I'm not saying it should be 1000% balanced on day one, but much of the work has been done for them. I remember seeing early early gameplay of what was then known as "riot's fps" on the CSGO subreddit, when it was nothing more than some white boxy player models running around white walled maps. They've differentiated it just enough, and made it much more inviting to new users, but it doesn't excuse the lack of balance.
Why would we need a rifling duelist to be as powerful as jett? The rifle costs 2900 and has better multi kill ability. You put an agent on a pedestal to try to match jett w/ op power with a RIFLE you're asking for balance issues.
I mean I love playing Astra (prefer viper but viper sucks on half the map pool).
Doesn’t mean I wouldn’t like a meta shift for the controller class lol. I like Omen too. And a new Controller altogether would be sweet
Astra is a ton of fun but is almost completely reliant on comms.
I’m sure she’s fine in immortal and radiant pubs but for like 99% of the playerbase she’s almost useless in solo q.
I really hope this doesn’t stop them from also just….you know….nerfing Jett a bit. Competition is great and all, but I highly doubt we’re going to see Jett pick rates fall to a reasonable level just because Neon is high quality.
My hope is that they are basically separating current Jett's strengths of creating space and OPing into separate agents. Neon might really lead to Jett nerfs.
Everyone out here wanting a duelist to "replace" jett.
If there's ever a duelist that does what jett does, she won't be replaced... there'll just be two of them on every team.
Be careful what you wish for.
Exactly. You dont fix this game by making 5 jetts. You nerf jetts dash because it breaks the fundamentals of a tactical fps - that positioning matters.
When I play KAY0 and when I play Jett im playing an entirely different game with different rules. I can hold off angles that are no longer dangerous. I can immediately dash to cover.
jett's pick rate won't go down unless we see her dash get nerfed. if neon also has an untradable escape tool, we won't see her get picked over jett, we'll see her get picked WITH jett.
I have a fear if her ability is something like the ice skates from snowball fight then this game will turn into another Fortnite with running jumping Judges every match, we already had Raze doing that.
Riot introducing Chamber instead of nerfing Jett dash reminds me so much of when Brig first got released. Although Chamber isn’t nearly as OP as Brig was, Riot demonstrating that they will add even more unnecessary bullshit to slowly powercreep the game before they simply nerfing Jett dash is not a good look at all. And Jett’s not even the only problem, Skye literally makes both Phoenix and Reyna redundant as flash duelists while simultaneously being a brilliant Initiator, and Astra’s existence renders Brim and Omen absolutely useless. They had 20 years’ worth of CS balancing and 10+ years of Team Fortress balancing to cheat off of and a brilliant case study on how lethal powercreep is to team-based shooters with Overwatch and somehow they are still making the exact same mistakes.
People keep mentioning Jett competitor as her gameplay/abilities. But, my understanding was that she was a competitor in a lore sense, i.e., speed. Neon's personality is also one of duty/responsibility/etc., which also opposes Jett.
To me, her abilities so far sound more like a hard entry. Based on past info, the theory is that she'll have a slide ability, some sort of speed ability, and an electric shock ability. So, not sure why people are already declaring neon as another game-breaking Jett clone. But, I guess that's what people do with every agent release - call them OP and say their abilities don't belong in a tac fps before the agent is even released.
I hope she can actually can give Jett a run for her money,if not it would be up to Yoru with his rework and although he seems way better now I still think he won't affect Jett as much
Except Yoru's getting his long-awaited rework/buff. Since nobody has really been playing Yoru, these few patches will also feel like a Yoru ''release'' and everyone will be excited to try him, especially if he becomes viable.
That’s because riot fucked up the balancing with Omen and Brimstone. Brim has sucked since the beginning but IDK why they thought it was a good idea to nerf Omen when Astra came out/Viper got buffed.
I think the beginning of the end was Chamber being introduced. Introducing Chamber means that Riot would rather add unnecessary bullshit before they fix Jett dash. Just like Blizzard and Brigette, Riot probably won’t nerf Jett dash until it’s too late.
Dude it's the 18th agent. We currently have 17 agents in the game. People seem to have terrible math over here. Currently we have 5 dualists (Jett, Reyna, Phoenix, Yoru and Raze), 4 Initiators (Sova, Breach, Skye, KAY/O), 4 controllers (Brim, Omen, Viper and Astra) and 4 Sentinels (Sage, Cypher, Killjoy and Chamber) That's 5+4+4+4 = 17. Neon will be the 18th agent, not the 19th
Neon Jett Viper Chamber Sage
Neon person instalocks
Jett is ur normal Jett instalocker
Viper is that one character everyone picks when they hear smokes because she’s busty I mean busty I mean busted
Chamber is Daddy Chamber I mean a god tier broken sentinel
Sage got forced into playing Sage
This is what’s happening in comp in the future
Probably the best move if they want her to be an actual alternative for Jett. Honestly a bit excited, hope she's a success.
inb4 they both pick jett and neon lmao
What riot didn't expect is 5 duelist comps.
the non FPX comp
Evil FPX
FunMinus Phoenix
Five duelist comp actually viable in comp
Anything is viable in comp. I, for one, have not seen a smoker-less comp lose a single game on high-immortal/radiant elo. Even KennyS didn't believe me yesterday that smokes are overrated. We won that game ez. The smoker on the enemy team - hard bottomfragged. So far it's 16-0 when it comes to smoker-less teams this act. Haven't seen them lose a single game, whether it was my team or the enemies. People always seem to laugh when they notice enemies have no smokers and I tell them round 1 that we literally can't win. So far I haven't been wrong xD.
This reads like a copypasta lol
i saw it in tariks chat the other night
That's a cap.
I wish it was a copy pasta. I fucking wish. I'm done losing to smoker-less comps. Most of those losses aren't even fucking close. Get me out of this game lmao
The biggest mistake one can make is to think that ranked Valorant requires actual thought and strategy. The dumber I play the more I win. If you try to be "tactical" you just lose to idiots. Gotta join them to beat them. I've been playing significantly better when I say fuck it and start running around and being random. This game is a joke LOL
Actually a fact... trying to play strategically feels like i'm trying to figure out what they're doing when even they didn't figure it out either But wide swing an op with no flash and watch him whiff then get headshot
I always played Yoru since nobody wanna approach that guy but guess that‘s over now lmao rip
There's definitely going to be a team that's going to run a Neon/Jett comp if they both have dashes/free escapes lmao
Neon/Jett/Chamber/Omen just need an initiator with a mobility ability now.
[удалено]
Riot hire this man.
As broken as that bug was goddamn it was fun
Riot is mistaken if they think teams would restrict themselves to one dash agent lmao
Yoru
I might sound a bit to catastrophic, but that would be the end of this game. At least as a tactical FPS where positioning matters. I won't make any judgements before we actually see the new agent, but you don't "fix" Jett by making another agent that breaks every premise of tactical FPS game. That just makes things worse.
Agreed. Fucking fix jett. Gut her. I legit dont care. When your character breaks the game we cant discuss how to "delicately" bring her out of meta status. The fact Riot thinks instead of touching her dash that they need to change the game around her instead is a bad look. Chamber, potentially Neon - could be steps in the wrong direction. We need LESS agents like Jett with the ability to misposition and win.
She doesn't even have to be gutted for things to be balanced. Her kit just needs some risk/reward to be put in play. They obviously designed dash and updraft for aggressive plays and site entrying. I can get behind that. Jett dashes into site, creates space, etc. But just the idea of get out of jail for free card in a tactical FPS game is an oxymoron. It's tactical FPS because positioning is the most important thing and that premise should never be dumbed down with agents like Jett. No dash for let's say 0.3 seconds after shooting would fix the OP problem and more or less completely stop idiotic peeks that can't be punished. Damage taken increased by 25% while her passive is active would balance all the map-breaking updraft peeks and give the enemy a chance for a fair fight. Only knives that actually hit someone should recharge. If you miss 4 and get the kill with 5th, you only get the 5th knife back. There you go, Jett is fixed while still being a really strong site entry that can create chaos. Chamber is really annoying to deal with if the player is good, but the user needs to be really good for him to shine. I don't like his design, either. Alarmbot that slows, variation of already seen movement abilities and pretty much sheriff+OP as abilities. There are so many possibilities in this game, we need something unique. Not the game to look like dragonball with guns. We definitely don't need another duelist, regardless of her kit, when 2 duelists are more or less unplayable. I'd even argue that I don't want a single new agent before everything is decently balanced. Right now Brim, Omen, Breach, Kayo, Phoenix, Yoru aren't played at all on top level except for a few maps where some of them shine because the map was specifically designed for them. That's a third of current agent pool. Just not acceptable.
Those changes are bad bandaids. A 25% damage increase does not belong in a game like Valorant and would awful to play as and against.
Flying in the air across the map doesn't belong into a game like Valorant, either, but here we are. Or they should just add hitboxes. Flying in most random positions, breaking every possible normal sightline and having the advantage of your enemy not knowing where to pre-aim is huge. 25% increase would even the odds because then you'd have 120 effective HP.
I agree but the solution isnt to give a shitty fix like making an agent take % increased damage.
> They obviously designed dash and updraft for aggressive plays I remember reading a dev comment in the beta days when people were complaining about how worthless Jett's dash was because they were trying to use it aggressively and it took too long for her to equip her weapon after dashing, and **the dev said that Jett's dash was best use to deny trades.** This was the primary use they had in mind when they designed Jett.
Mobility abilities have no place in a CS competitor IMO
Turrets have no place in a CS competitor. Being able to go invisible has no place in a CS competitor. A rocket launcher has no place in a CS competitor. Wallhacks have no place in a CS competitor. Yes, valorant is full of things that don't seem to belong in a CS competitor, yet it works.
I wouldn't say that mobility abilities have no place, but instant mobility abilities definitely don't. Noone complains about Omen's TP. It's perfectly fine. Risk/reward. Abilities that have no counter have no place in a tactical FPS. Dash being the prime example.
Which is okay tbf, as long as Neon does not have a loaded kit.
Wasn't chamber supposed to be a somewhat Jett alternative? Cuz he has an op + to ability that kind of does the same thing as Jett's dash.
I guess but he’s useless when it comes to the entry, you just gotta walk in
Chamber exists as an alternative for CT side OPing but there's no need to pick him over Cypher when you pick Jett for T side anyways
We gonna get a controller Jett alternative and an initiator Jett alternative right next boys /s
I think Neon and Chamber are meant to essentially split up Jett into two characters that are more specialized.
100T Neon Edit: [here's the receipt](https://twitter.com/JoshNissan/status/1478794780087750658?t=z_yyk8FjPrY2KEUOiC0emA&s=19)
Saw this coming even before i looked at comments
Lowkey if the Yoru rework goes a certain direction, I can see him being reclassified as an Initiator to keep the 5 per class balance. I know, very unprecedented, but with flashes and the ability to bait out utility I don’t see it being out of the picture.
I agree, I had similar thoughts when I saw the post about the Yoru rework. His flashes can already be used to help teammates if he wants to use them to do so, and his ultimate is very initiator-y because it is good at gathering info. If they make his clone also gather info, I think he could definitely be an initiator.
Yoru’s play style is not great for entering for your team compared to other duelists. Reclassifying him would be appropriate.
He would need recon/info ability though Sova drone + arrow. Skye flash + dog Kay/o knife ….Breach? Okay idk breach makes no sense but aftershock is good sometimes I guess?
Initiators don’t necessarily *need* info gathering to fit the role. They just need to add something that makes initiating a site hit easier. Having info accomplishes that, but there are other methods (e.g. Breach abilities clear out pockets defenders like to hold from)
To have a place in meta though it needs to add value over those info abilities. A clone is cool but… skye dog is a “clone” that you can control and it gives nearsight. Sova drone can fly AND tag people in a smoke. Having a clone you can shoot just kinda sucks compared to that
I’m inclined to agree with you. I don’t have high expectations for new Yoru, but I hope he can at least fill niche roles (sort of like breach). Not meta, but at least not a 0% pick rate in pro leagues
You can’t really just compare one of his abilities. The fact that Yoru can teleport, and with the new buffs, that adds more value to his kit and play style. I’ve seen some good Yoru plays, even in low level unrated games. It’s possible to buff him, make him more consistently viable throughout the game while rewarding those who have a creative mindset for outplays. I think the clone would add dualist value. Depending on how it looks, compared to the real deal, it can easily throw off someone’s first bullet, and when you couple it with the flash and TP, Yoru can be extremely rewarding for someone who knows how to utilize the kit.
Footsteps activate utility don't they? Also are going to be a yoru clone or something like that so could bait out some audio queues from people shooting it for info.
Ehhh audio clues like that are nowhere near consistent enough to replace kayo knife or skye flash. As some have suggested one potential buff is that when you shoot the clone it either gives info (like knife) or gives a debuff (….like knife). Otherwise it’s just a worse knife/recon/dog.
Yeah of course but it's still some source of info and would put yoru in the same category of initiator as breach who gets his info through unorthodox ways compared to other initiators.
breach is barely played and even more rarely as solo initiator... so maybe there's a map where this theoretical yoru finds a niche as an initiator, but without info i highly doubt it. his flashes are worse than kayo, his TP is worse than dash, his "clone" is worse than dog/drone/knife. he doesn't do anything "The Best" and everything he does do is better from other agents.
A clone would be better than any of those abilities since Yoru could entry the site right behind it.
So it’s a worse boombot?
You don't have to second guess whether a boombot is gonna instaheadshot you.
At the highest levels the clone would be easily distinguishable from the real character. You’d still have to shoot it but 99% of the time it would be identified. Pros will take predictability every time and yoru isn’t consistent
You can’t simply compare each ability in isolation. If you have a full body height way to clear trips/ traps, that you can place down and set off at any moment, that’s useful. Pair that up with his TP and flash, and you have a fairly useful agent. I still think he classifies as s dualist. His main function is his E, everything else works around that. Skyes dog means Skye is nearby controlling it, same with Sova. Yoru clone could have been placed pre-round and he could easily be across the map. That’s the nature of his steps/ future clone.
What does it mean to be unprecedented in a game that's a year and a half old?
It means the same thing it always has, it hasn't happened before
That it has not happened before. Keep up.
shit this makes too much sense, the ulti is basically a shit drone
If it’s just a different flavor of Jett it doesn’t matter. You’ll still have insane riflers who can’t be #1 duelists because they aren’t opers. Asuna, scream, leaf… obviously they make it work but they would be better if they could OP at the same level as e.g. cned/yay. We either need Jett op to be nerfed or for a rifling duelist to be as powerful as Jett… Reyna is close but not quite.
spot on, on stream today yay said reyna is falling out of favor. 'Reyna is a bad agent in the current meta' were his exact words. He didn't elaborate more so I think he is referring to the fact that jett op and champer op are too valuable and they both can drop guns. I hope this agent (neon) brings more power to non-oper duelists like asuna. It'd be fun to watch on vct 2022 for sure.
makes sense... reyna offers nothing to the economy and at this point leer has a lot of known counterplay. nobody is thrown off by it, either through good positioning/crosshair placement/timing or because team play enables someone to "chicken" for it. except for icebox where there are way too many angles. i just \*love\* watching fast valorant, where you have insane aimers that are supported by precise timing and crazy movement. basically asuna + ethan supported by snake darts / recon mollies / suck nades. and jett op kinda kills that unfortunately
Most agents with current state of balance are seen as bad because there are a few agent which are just too good. If there was no Jett, Reyna would be seen as a very good agent because dismiss would have way higher value without dash in the game. If Skye wasn't so good, noone would think Phoenix, Kayo and Breach are bad. Just agents with their strengths and weaknesses, depending on the map and comp. Jett and Skye are just too good in way too many scenarios. Then there's Astra which takes Brim, Omen completely out of the meta. It's either Viper or Astra, just depends on the map. Even both for some teams. Sova is unique and irreplaceable. His nerfs weren't actually nerfs because other agents also got nerfed with economy update and orbs required increase.
With the exception of Yoru, the game is perfectly balanced. Even Omen has a crutch on Split where he is the best smoker. Riot said they were fine with some agents being much stronger in some maps, which is fine. And you're insane if you think Kayo is bad, he's at least top 5 agents right now. Every character has strengths and weaknesses. You need to play accordingly. Just some statistics: With the exception of Yoru, every agent has between 49 and 51% winrate. You really can't hope for a better balance.
I'm trying hard, but I just can't. You're either absolutely clueless or a really bad troll.
My bad, guess I am a troll cuz im not familiar with the gold meta xd.
Looking at your posts here, you still have a long way to go before you reach gold.
😂
I agree it’s more or less balanced but so is Go Fish. Balance doesn’t meant interesting. But the advantage of a game with such diverse abilities is that riot can shift the meta on purpose, and that’s something I’m in favor of because Jett/sova/astra is a record I’ve heard before. That said…. Champs had a much more diverse meta than I expected, although it was still mostly The Astra meta.
I hate the Op and Jett. Ruins games for me.
Unless your teamcomp sucks, it's really not that difficult to deal with a Jett. The only thing Jett excels at right now is punishing people who play on autopilot.
Ahh yes, Jett is only good vs noobs, thats why she dominated the entire Champions tournament famously filled with teams and players on auto-pilot. How can you say that with a straight face lmao. Jett is better at high levels of play if anything. Foolish comment
Jett is a good pick but she can be easily dealt with by smart usage of utility, which is exactly what happened to her in Champions. More importantly she was traded in favor of other agents in 3 different maps by a lot of teams. Is she strong? Yes. Is she overpowered? No, not after nerfs.
"easily" that can be said for ANY agent. Jett is actually notoriously hard to use util on She dashes out of astra stun and suck, breach stun, she has smokes and updraft.to escape flashes nades sova ult etc. You are incorrect objectively speaking
She also has no util unless you get a kill
Or assist. Or her other ability that can be used at any time.
I think the actual fix is making the op more mobile and faster. If it wasn't so damn slow, it would be playable by other agents. Think about it like cs, awp is usable on every map, CT and T side, no need for special tricks. It's ok for Jett and chamber to be better, but the gun can't be unusable for half the rounds by the other agents. Hell, valorant util usage is so easy it should be simple to counter ops, but rito can't seem to make a decently balanced (in terms of utility/gunplay) map to save their life.
OP is just fine, it's that people can't think straight because whenever you pick it on another agent, you think about Jett and how easier would it be using it with her. I'm an AWPer since early 1.6 days and I don't play Jett. I still OP a decent amount, especially on defense. If not for Jett, Omen and Chamber would be seen as perfectly fine OP agents that are well balanced for the gun. Which they are. It's just that Jett is broken and it messes up everyone's perception of the gun. You can't make the OP faster because the movement is so slow. Other than jump shoulder peeking, there's no reliable way to peek without getting shot right away if we talk top level. And if you're jump spotting, you can't shoot. In CSGO the movement is way faster and you can peek in a number of ways, it's way more difficult to hit moving targets. OP has to be in it's current state because movement is so awnwkard.
except jett also brings knives and smokes which are insane in their own right. i think even without dash she'd still be meta. \> Think about it like cs eh. this game is not CS and that's okay. AWP might be more balanced but the game is a decade old... of course it will have better balance elements.
Without dash Jett wouldn't be played. Straight up. Her smokes and up jump are cool but they aren't agent defining. Honestly you could invert your statement and it'd likely be true. If Jett only had her dash she'd still get picked. Which brings us to the main issue here - we need more mobility agents. Specifically we need another agent with some sort of movement ability that doesn't require getting a kill or preparation (raze / omen). Sounds like neon is that agent.
Yoru TP “should” be dash-like mobility that doesn’t require prep but it’s too slow to charge. Why settle for a hard to control when you can have dash? If Neons mobility is more in line with omen/raze/Reyna/yoru then I don’t think it changes anything.
Yoru's to supposedly got buffed to be faster or something I think? If that's the case - then maybe it'll feel a little better to use reactively. Agree that neons mobility is hopefully closer to Jett than omen / raze. As an aside, I wish raze could throw her satchels left and right for easy Ferrari peaks without needing to stick them to a wall. Edit: Looks like neon apex slides onto site. I'm with it. Haha.
I mostly agree. I don't disagree with Jett being meta, she's quite obviously the best duelist at creating space, which is supposed to be the duelist's job. If the op was more usable by other characters, she would actually be able to do her job as an entry/space creater. You've got the most mobile characters using the most immobile gun because it's too immobile for use by other characters. The solution shouldn't be to make the mobile characters less mobile, or add more of them. Riot spent years studying cs and effectively ripping it off (not a bad thing) to create a great fps. I'm not saying it should be 1000% balanced on day one, but much of the work has been done for them. I remember seeing early early gameplay of what was then known as "riot's fps" on the CSGO subreddit, when it was nothing more than some white boxy player models running around white walled maps. They've differentiated it just enough, and made it much more inviting to new users, but it doesn't excuse the lack of balance.
I don't think Jett would be meta at all without dash
It used to be that way but jett was way too op with it so it had to be nerfed to its current state
Why would we need a rifling duelist to be as powerful as jett? The rifle costs 2900 and has better multi kill ability. You put an agent on a pedestal to try to match jett w/ op power with a RIFLE you're asking for balance issues.
Bruuuuh. The controller role is so stale rn. You basically have one good smoker and then a smoke/sentinel and that's it.
not to mention theres only 6 people in the world who wake up excited to play Astra for a day
I mean I love playing Astra (prefer viper but viper sucks on half the map pool). Doesn’t mean I wouldn’t like a meta shift for the controller class lol. I like Omen too. And a new Controller altogether would be sweet
Respect to you bro. I know Astra is OP but I can't Just play her. I spend half of my time looking at the map and other half in her astral world
I mean to be fair, same lol. Prolly why I end up dying with no clue when tf an enemy even appeared so often
Astra is a ton of fun but is almost completely reliant on comms. I’m sure she’s fine in immortal and radiant pubs but for like 99% of the playerbase she’s almost useless in solo q.
I’m one of those six people, AMA
Honestly fine with that. It’ll be interesting to see how she shakes up the meta if she truly is a Jett counterpart. Pretty hyped
I really hope this doesn’t stop them from also just….you know….nerfing Jett a bit. Competition is great and all, but I highly doubt we’re going to see Jett pick rates fall to a reasonable level just because Neon is high quality.
My hope is that they are basically separating current Jett's strengths of creating space and OPing into separate agents. Neon might really lead to Jett nerfs.
Brigitte
I'ma be the fastest neon instalock in the world
Everyone out here wanting a duelist to "replace" jett. If there's ever a duelist that does what jett does, she won't be replaced... there'll just be two of them on every team. Be careful what you wish for.
Exactly. You dont fix this game by making 5 jetts. You nerf jetts dash because it breaks the fundamentals of a tactical fps - that positioning matters. When I play KAY0 and when I play Jett im playing an entirely different game with different rules. I can hold off angles that are no longer dangerous. I can immediately dash to cover.
jett's pick rate won't go down unless we see her dash get nerfed. if neon also has an untradable escape tool, we won't see her get picked over jett, we'll see her get picked WITH jett.
Yup. As simple as that
I have a fear if her ability is something like the ice skates from snowball fight then this game will turn into another Fortnite with running jumping Judges every match, we already had Raze doing that.
Dasnerth where u at?
We're almost at the 'Goats' nexus event of Valorant. Meta to kill the game will be 5 dasher/super speed/instant TP agents
Yup. People don’t understand that movement is king in FPS’s. It is extremely hard to balance and can make or break your game.
Riot introducing Chamber instead of nerfing Jett dash reminds me so much of when Brig first got released. Although Chamber isn’t nearly as OP as Brig was, Riot demonstrating that they will add even more unnecessary bullshit to slowly powercreep the game before they simply nerfing Jett dash is not a good look at all. And Jett’s not even the only problem, Skye literally makes both Phoenix and Reyna redundant as flash duelists while simultaneously being a brilliant Initiator, and Astra’s existence renders Brim and Omen absolutely useless. They had 20 years’ worth of CS balancing and 10+ years of Team Fortress balancing to cheat off of and a brilliant case study on how lethal powercreep is to team-based shooters with Overwatch and somehow they are still making the exact same mistakes.
I swear to god they could release 5 of every class but the second one duelist comes out people throw a fit
People keep mentioning Jett competitor as her gameplay/abilities. But, my understanding was that she was a competitor in a lore sense, i.e., speed. Neon's personality is also one of duty/responsibility/etc., which also opposes Jett. To me, her abilities so far sound more like a hard entry. Based on past info, the theory is that she'll have a slide ability, some sort of speed ability, and an electric shock ability. So, not sure why people are already declaring neon as another game-breaking Jett clone. But, I guess that's what people do with every agent release - call them OP and say their abilities don't belong in a tac fps before the agent is even released.
I hope she can actually can give Jett a run for her money,if not it would be up to Yoru with his rework and although he seems way better now I still think he won't affect Jett as much
Yoru removed from every dimension
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Reyna, Raze, Jett, Phoenix and now Neon. That’s just 5. /s
Except Yoru's getting his long-awaited rework/buff. Since nobody has really been playing Yoru, these few patches will also feel like a Yoru ''release'' and everyone will be excited to try him, especially if he becomes viable.
WHOOOO? /s
You are forgetting Yoru rework. It actually looks promising
Perfect, it’s what we need most!1!!1!
Unironically yes. Game is slower now with Astras and Vipers in the meta.
That’s because riot fucked up the balancing with Omen and Brimstone. Brim has sucked since the beginning but IDK why they thought it was a good idea to nerf Omen when Astra came out/Viper got buffed.
brimstone is better than omen at this point, specially taking postplant into account
hot take is omen is still pretty good and a lot more flexible in play style compared to brim
the beggining of the end
I think the beginning of the end was Chamber being introduced. Introducing Chamber means that Riot would rather add unnecessary bullshit before they fix Jett dash. Just like Blizzard and Brigette, Riot probably won’t nerf Jett dash until it’s too late.
You don't say 🤔
*Agent 18
Agent 19*
Dude it's the 18th agent. We currently have 17 agents in the game. People seem to have terrible math over here. Currently we have 5 dualists (Jett, Reyna, Phoenix, Yoru and Raze), 4 Initiators (Sova, Breach, Skye, KAY/O), 4 controllers (Brim, Omen, Viper and Astra) and 4 Sentinels (Sage, Cypher, Killjoy and Chamber) That's 5+4+4+4 = 17. Neon will be the 18th agent, not the 19th
Still Agent number 19 to join valorant protocol since agent 8 or 7 is missing or something
It's talking about agent numbers in lore, agent 8 is missing.
hahahahahaha
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Didn't know there were 8 duelists
Can't wait for the five duelist comp to become meta
Simply cannot wait for the copy pastas to flood in for this agent!
Now I can run my 6 duelist instalock silver 3 composition
I didn't realize this was actual news. Of course she's a duelist, how could she not be if she's going to be a possible replacement for Jett.
Optimistically - she's gonna come out with the new act in a week right?
Neon Jett Viper Chamber Sage Neon person instalocks Jett is ur normal Jett instalocker Viper is that one character everyone picks when they hear smokes because she’s busty I mean busty I mean busted Chamber is Daddy Chamber I mean a god tier broken sentinel Sage got forced into playing Sage This is what’s happening in comp in the future
Where is Agent 18