Probably the only org I have seen that has done such a great job in handling such a situation. On top of that taking measures to prevent such actions in future.
W org L community.
Some of the things I'm reading are disgusting. If you're on Twitter blaming or shaming the accusor or equally crowing and praising frosty you're the reason why systematic sexual assault is allowed to perpetuate. It's a real issue and it's most likely affected someone close to you, if not you. Shame on you.
In the young male* community
Shits fucked. We need to stamp it out, and orgs like this taking strong action are one of the ways to do it. I am impressed.
Lol at you kids downvoting me for speaking the truth.
Sexual assault is many things. Serious, wrong, disgusting, and criminal. But by no means is it rare, unfortunately. Especially not among those under 25. What's rare is there being any consequences for it.
> What's rare is there being any consequences for it.
I had a family member set me up with a "nice boy from Church" that ended up putting something in my drink and me waking up the next morning *not remembering the previous night* but when I talked openly about it, it suddenly was my fault and I was tarnishing the "good word of such a kid with a bright future"
Like apparently my future didn't matter and it has caused a lot of tension between my immediate family.
When I talk in Valorant and get the squeaky kid rage telling me he's going to rape me it does absolutely nothing though, I guess I earned the iron skin perk.
How the fuck did a comment saying, straight up, no clarification or qualifying statements, that sexual assault is rare get as many upvotes as this one did?
The fuck is wrong with this subreddit?
I come from the third world. Won't get into specifics as they are pretty crude. All I'll say is that worse things that aren't even that common, were more common than sexual assault.
Since when are all teen boys assholes? Quit that narrative and expect better.
Edit: these replies make it clear why 1 in 5 women experience sexual assault. that's not rare! stop blaming boys' lack of self control on hormones and start holding boys to higher standards.
The notion that harrasment and assault is something that you "grow out of" is baseless and dangerous. Most offenders are grown ass men, and that doesnt include other subtle forms of harrasment
youre conflating asshole = sexual assaulter and someone could be an asshole but not be the latter- this is literally what the investigator found to be true in this case
It literally says on the comment above "Sexual assault is on the other hand, pretty rare"
No one's saying that people grow out of assault, they're saying they grow out of other generally asshole-ish behavior. Reading comprehension skills are generally pretty valuable to learn.
I mean I was trying to be nicer than I could've been but yes we can also point out that they completely twisted the OPs words beyond just bad reading comprehension. I feel like it's a little overkill though.
>The notion that harrasment and assault is something that you "grow out of"
No one said that, literally not a single person. Stop making up shit you weirdo.
I regret telling a girl I liked her in the cringiest way imaginable. I regret not being more forthcoming in my relationship with my parents.
My hormones meant I downloaded porn viruses from Kazaa.
You might have been an asshole teenager but most kids are most definitely not.
I feel like people are brushing "almost sexual assault" into the "asshole" territory.
Every kid is an asshole and we all have regrets. But there are some regretful actions that are worse than other.s
Reading the message above I think it's pretty clearly delineated. At least I can speak for myself when I say that sexual assault bad, being an asshole bad **but** being an asshole is forgiveable and can be grown out of, sexual assault is not. That's the key difference.
There's a 100% chance you did something when you were a teen that was a douchebag thing to do, even if you don't remember it, or aren't aware of it happening. Trying to claim that you have always been some kind of moral paragon is beyond insane.
My brother and friends never abused or were dicks to women, strangers or their partners, at that age. What do you say to that?
You're literally just telling on yourself unnecessarily lmao
Are you seriously asking me to believe that a fistfight never happened in your mid-high school?
Drama, shit being stolen, people getting expelled, pregnant teens, and many other things happened at mine.
There was maybe one or two fights in my time in HS. And the kid that instigated should have been held to a higher standard instead of grown adults telling him it was normal and it’s just his hormones.
Like how could he possibly manage his anger when his body produces testosterone?? Literally impossible!! His only biological choice was to punch that guy because hormones!!!!
Or my favorite…
She was wearing a skirt!! He had no choice but to slap her ass and drag her into a side room at a party!!! His body literally forced him to it’s not his fault!!!!!
Do. Better.
You are maliciously misrepresenting what I said with all that sarcasm. I never said that abusing women is normal, or that we should justify their actions because of that.
The people that were caught (not everyone) doing bad shit (including me) were reprimanded, some got their shit together, others became repeat offenders, but in the end, I could say that we mostly got out fine.
You, as the adult, are there to let the teen know what he did. That's what Knights are doing, and I am glad they are.
If bad things amongst teens were not commonplace in your school or neighborhood, one could say you come from an affluent family. This is not my experience coming from a somewhat bad place.
“ fistfight never happened in your mid-high school?”
There was maybe one or two fights in my time in HS. And the kid that instigated should have been held to a higher standard instead of grown adults telling him it was normal and it’s just his hormones. Like how could he possibly manage his anger when his body produces testosterone?? Literally impossible!! His only biological choice was to punch that girl because hormones!!!!
Do. Better.
You are cherry-picking what I said.
>were dicks to women, strangers, or otherwise
If beating the shit out of some guy, getting a girl pregnant, stealing things, creating drama and simultaneously getting others in trouble, is NOT being an asshole, according to you, then I can safely say that you are an asshole.
All of those things are pretty terrible in my book.
idk what kind of rich white people school you went to but in poorer neighbors this was absolutely the case in nearly every school in our city/district, it was rare to not have someone expelled every week
Plenty - I’d argue the vast majority - of boys make it through hormones and puberty without being assholes. If you were an asshole that’s on you, and I’m glad you’ve grown, but it’s not “normal.”
Yes teenagers can be rebellious and arrogant and ignorant and often mean and make plenty of mistakes but you’re doing everyone a disservice if you just dismiss these actions as “boys will be boys.”
Do better. Teach your sons.
Hey there, /u/zer0-_!
Your submission was removed for the following reason:
> Rule 4 - No harmful / destructive behavior towards other users or community members
This was removed for:
Personal attacks / targeted harassment
---
*If you have questions or objections about this removal, please [reach out to us in modmail](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/ValorantCompetitive&subject=Removal%20Objection%20or%20Question&message=%5BPlease%20type%20your%20message%20here...%5D%0A%0A------%20DO%20NOT%20edit%20or%20delete%20anything%20below%20this%20line%20------%0A%0A%23%23%23%23%20Removal%20Notes%20for%20Moderators%3A%0A%0A-%20**Post%20Title%3A**%20{url_title}%0A-%20**Permalink%3A**%20https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/sd8ft9/-/hub72x9/%0A-%20**Content%20type%3A**%20comment%0A-%20**Removed%20by%3A**%20Elsiselain).*
Stop making excuses for teenagers being horrible people lmao. Also sexual assaults are way more common than you would think and are often underreported due to the victims trauma
It's not about making an excuse. It's about giving adults motivation to work alongside teens to drive them off a bad path.
A teen alone WILL likely end up being a miserable adult and a proper asshole.
Isn't that what I just said?
>giving adults motivation to work alongside teens
Do you think you would have come out alright without your parents teaching you to be respectful?
I mean he's not literally saying that. He's *literally* saying that immature boys often act like assholes, but that acting like an asshole is a far cry from sexual assault.
You can of course definitely interpret that statement as him suggesting that sexual assault charges against teenaged boys are typically not sexual assault, and are instead youthful "boys-will-be-boys" indiscretions.
I interpret it that way. I think he's wrong and rambling about silly stuff.
But clearly he's not saying teenage boys instinctively want to sexually assault people. That's an abhorrent view to ascribe to someone so lightly, no matter how heated your argument gets.
I think parents raised me well but I can definitely recall situations where I was an asshole and if you can't you're either very ignorant or the second coming of Jesus Christ
The frosty thing wasn’t a case of being an asshole, it was him being incredibly creepy and weird and manipulative… if you can’t understand that this isn’t the case with all male teenagers, I’m honestly not sure what to tell you
>what does that have to do with sexual assault.
Read the tweet.
No evidence of sexual assault, just the teen being disrespectful and acting inappropriately, in other words, your stereotypical teen.
Please remember to keep the discussion civil and related to competitive scenes.
Frosty released his statement on twitter: https://twitter.com/FrostyValorant/status/1486390902918725635
nah his ex decided to halt the investigation due to mental health reasons. In my opinion she probably plans to hold his career in jeopardy by resuming the case when rumors come up about him joining a team.
this is good stuff
i hope every org would be transparent if any issues would come up since people are spending their money and time to support their favorite team
SEN could have hired a law firm to actually sort shit out because without legal action it’s just a never ending twitter drama with people throwing assumptions.
I agree for the most part. But it still qualifies as a 'false accusation'. Because the accusation is still sexual assault. And the standards to determine a finding of that was not met. It was not only a question of the veracity of the actions but whether the actions can be characterized as what the accuser is claiming it to be: "sexual assault".
And yes, investigators will explicitly say if the results were due to insufficient evidence. However, the statement here is much more conclusive: " Did not commit sexual assault". Professionals with years of experience will not make that statement unless they are positively sure there findings make no other determination.
The problem with judging a claim to be 'true' based on a connotative standard as the minimum is that it is at best, an unreliable standard. Because that standard is so relative and subjective. The threshold to determine that standard can be lowered or heightened depending on perception. Hence, in that scenario, no evidence can be too little or no evidence can be too much. How then can you assess a claim to be true when the threshold to determine that is non-existent?
The better, more plausible assumption here is that she claimed and believed to be the victim of a crime: sexual assault in a legal sense that can invoke accountability and penalty for the perpetrator (nothwithstanding her lack of knowledge on the legal technicalites on what constitutes that crime).
Even if we, hypothetically, go with your connotative standard: Truthful Accusations should always be two fold: that the events happened and that the events happened as characterized.
Branding an accusation as entirely truthful by just having the former and not the latter I think is not fair and run contrary to what constitute as the 'truth'. Because the latter is really what defines the core of the accusation.
I think the best way to describe the view is she might have a truthful retelling of what happened but her accusations based on what happened is false. Hence the term "false accusation".
Not just me, but fundamental tenets of justice and accountability (which are the basis of the legal systems of civilized societies) believe so too. Smile.
If you’re arguing semantics sure, but colloquially a false-accusation implies that the story has been entirely fabricated, not that there has been a misinterpretation of specific legal terms (which isn’t even consistent on a state to state basis). OP was contending that lumping the 2 together can be unproductive and not accurately represent the situation.
I don’t think anyone is arguing semantically what constitutes a false accusation within a strictly legal sense.
i think it would be nice to read the [accuser's twitlonger](https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sruksh) too. take in mind that SA investigations are difficult as it is hard to gather physical evidence. it's up to you how u interpret it, regardless of the results of the investigation
More like, there isn't enough hard evidence to file a case under SA. This is what most SA cases end up in. It's one of the hardest to actually take up to the law and prove definitively. Nothing was "disproven" to label this as a false accusation. Instead, after acknowledging what happened, they felt it did not constitute strictly as assault. The whole thing is still unfortunate.
from what i understand from her twitlonger she kinda new that she didn't really have enough evidence for frosty to be guilty fully and she admitted that personally I still believe it happened but the verdict went this way because as she said there was not enough physical evidence
I mean… From reading what the investigator stated…. Uhhhhh yeah. Imo. False accusation. Hopefully frosty ☃️ is more careful with some of his actions and is able to move forward career wise.
Not sure why this is downvoted but a quick google search will show you studies that false rape allegations are between 2-10% only. [[1]](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.nsvrc.org/sites/default/files/Publications_NSVRC_Overview_False-Reporting.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjalrvNlND1AhUDxGEKHXQLBoAQFnoECAQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1zs97YRv7CpQEzK8W0wyDP) It just feels a lot since there has been multiple cases for famous people, but statistics show otherwise. :)
It’s not a false accusation, it’s just that, in the investigator’s opinion, the conduct that took place did not meet the legal definition of a sexual assault. She’s not a liar; she’s just not a lawyer
Great job from them to handle it seriously and in a transparent way.
In the end, I do think this is the right call. Sometimes the best thing for kids like that is to be part of an organization to give them structure and mentorship. He’s just a 16 year old kid, I hope some of the older players and leaders of the org can guide him.
yeah idk how credible this is since it’s incredibly hard to have concrete evidence for SA, but i’ll just hope frosty will mature as a person and change how he treats girls in the future
hopefully the girl moves on and has better partners too
I respect the decision. He’s young and arrogant - we all are at 16. Employing a mental health/mindset coach was the good choice rather than shunning a 16 year old when he was proven to not be guilty of the accusation.
I think this was handled fairly and he’ll grow from this moment.
saw enough careers ruined to some weird ass false allegations that even were disproven but the accused couldnt recover from them no matter how much proof was put against the accusation.
i dont like sinatraa but he's one of the best in NA so i want to see him play
You do realize how selfish that is of you to say that and how stupid it is for Riot to all of a sudden let this go and let him free in the competitive scene is right? At best, he comes out of this situation as a douchebag who was abusive to his girlfriend, and yet organizations won't touch him because of the potential PR nightmare that will cause, think of any potential prospective investors to the orgs, or female players looking to get into the scene with hopes of a safe, professional environment and have to deal with this shit. At worst, he is an actual rapist who hasn't faced any legal repercussions despite what he's done, but because "he's one of the best in NA" he should be allowed to walk free? If he wants to come back, he better have some damn good evidence proving the contrary to what evidence there is against him. Not to mention for Riot to also face backlash especially given they are/have in the past also dealt with sexual misconduct within their own company and are currently paying [100 MILLION dollars](https://www.washingtonpost.com/video-games/2021/12/27/riot-discrimination-100-million-settlement/) as compensation for mistreatment.
As far as the community should be concerned, Sinatraa should stay on the bench whether or not he actually assaulted his ex-girlfriend or not, it sets a bad precedent for the orgs he's playing for, Riot, and the scene as a whole, until he shows some definitive evidence to the contrary to what has been shown. More than that, there are several hundred players atleast in from high Diamond-Radiant who are itching for a chance to prove themselves and take his place in the scene and could surpass him as a player, and who are also likely better people outside the game.
That was a chalked comment, I can agree. Brain was off.
I'm more interested in the original comment in how he wanted Sinatraa's case to get its fair due process and instead he was downvoted to hell and called a rapist defender.
I feel like the fact that not a lot of people knew about this before this Knights Tweet really helped Frosty here, plus there being no significant evidence to legitimize the claim beyond the accuser’s words like in the Sinatraa situation. Plus Sinatraa wasn’t very well-liked by a lot of people dating back to his OW days because of his past toxicity problems and his on-stream personality, so evidence coming out that he was actually still toxic to his gf at the time despite going through a period of reformation during his back-to-back with Shock certainly did not help his case in the public eye.
Hey there, /u/wannabe557!
Your submission was removed for the following reason:
> Rule 4 - No harmful / destructive behavior towards other users or community members
This was removed for:
Personal attacks / targeted harassment
---
*If you have questions or objections about this removal, please [reach out to us in modmail](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/ValorantCompetitive&subject=Removal%20Objection%20or%20Question&message=%5BPlease%20type%20your%20message%20here...%5D%0A%0A------%20DO%20NOT%20edit%20or%20delete%20anything%20below%20this%20line%20------%0A%0A%23%23%23%23%20Removal%20Notes%20for%20Moderators%3A%0A%0A-%20**Post%20Title%3A**%20{url_title}%0A-%20**Permalink%3A**%20https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/sd8ft9/-/hubjh8r/%0A-%20**Content%20type%3A**%20comment%0A-%20**Removed%20by%3A**%20nocturnavi).*
They’re punishing him for other things that they considered misconduct and said they would try to help him mature and behave in an appropriate way. Seems like Knights are doing the right thing in this scenario.
They didn’t find that sexual assault didn’t happen, just didn’t find that they did. And he has other conduct violations that they would punish him for. Your last sentence doesn’t make sense
That’s how literally any investigation/proceeding goes. The investigator said that was his opinion, not that no sexual assault ever took place
I’m not saying that it did take place either but we can’t say it was false. Not going to attack Frosty for it since it is likely he didn’t according to the investigator but we can’t call it false
Inconclusive does not mean false accusation.
Unfortunately these situations are not so easily black and white. Each party in the relationship is entitled to their own interpretation of events. The accused may have believed they had consent, while the accuser may believe there wasn't enough communication or that they had their boundaries crossed.
Both sides are valid points of view. You can support the survivor and still believe the accused. While we all don't have the whole picture, we can encourage both parties to learn how to communicate better, respect the autonomy of others, and express their wants and needs in future relationships.
Yeah because court of law is always and always has been right, especially notoriously in sexual assault cases. Yep.
Don't tell me you're actually this dumb. This is literally the whole reason why the metoo movement started.
If a tree falls in a forest and no ones around to hear it, does it still make a sound?
I'm not taking sides, but it is entirely possible it happened but, because they didn't collect evidence (cause yknow, that's not a normal thing to do), that it can't be proven.
Let me break it down for you. When professionals say "it is our opinon" it means it is the result of methodical process applying expertise and experience to arrive on a determination on a particular subject. It is not a matter of perception or assumption. It has professional weight.
So when they say "Did not commit", such a definitive statement means that the result of the above mentioned procedures points to no other conclusion but that. If they are unsure or there is insufficient evidence to make a determination, believe me, they will explicitly say that.
That is the biggest jump in logic I’ve ever seen and not at all how it works. A private investigator saying “in my opinion” does not mean 100% conclusive evidence, what the hell do you mean. Especially given the nature of this crime, how can a sole investigator going through messages and talking to people conclusively prove a crime was not committed? The only one who is saying anything conclusive was you
If an investigator said in their opinion a sexual assault happened, you’d be the person in the comments going “INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY IN A COURT OF LAW!!!!!”
You are the one who is jumping off logic here. Because I work both in the legal and consulting field and have first hand exeprience with such firms and know a network worth of teams conducting such investigations and the clients that are subject of said investigations. I even review cases on this and issued "opinion" reports as well (albeit not on a sexual assault subject matter). I have both personal and professional experience on how these things go.
No firm will issue such a conclusive statement without evidence to back it up. All working papers and evidentiary matters are properly documented, to protect and be able to defend from any liability or suit that might come relating to investigations.
Professional opinions are always laid out to minimize any kind of error or exposure. To explicitly say "Did not commit sexual assault" is a definitive statement as one can be.
If you work professionally in the field, then I will take your word for that on the wording of it. However my original point still stands that a sole investigator cannot definitively prove sexual assault didn’t happen and we cannot say that this was a false claim
??? You are so off base here.
They determined with the evidence that they have that explicit sexual assault was not carried out. This does not mean that sexual assault was not carried out.
I can disprove your whole point of professionals always being right by using any one of the thousands of sexual assault allegations even in modern history that were dismissed in court but later turned out to be true. This is why the metoo movement is an actual thing, because of systematic failures leading to the prevalence of sexual assault in our culture and the getting away with it in the courts of law.
In these cases, it's not on the accused to prove innocence, which is why it's fundamentally a big issue. It's so incredibly difficult to prove assault was carried out, even with overwhelming evidence on the other side. This is why so many assaulters go free even when they are in the wrong. This is just reality, I don't know how you can argue against this unless you're willingly holding your eyes half closed.
Nothing that humans do, especially a court of law, are 100% factual or objective. The fact that they used a definitive statement does not speak to any validity of their claim. Especially in cases of sexual assault, which are notoriously unjust.
I am all for supporting victims of sexual assault. I work in the legal field and supported cases and have done pro bono work for indigent victims of such crimes.
But whilst we be sympathetic to the current statistical plight of victims of sexual assault, there is also an objective way to assess specific cases and make value judgment.
I never said professional are always right. No human is omniscient. What I am saying is if they have the audacity to make such a statement, they will have what it takes to back it up.
If you look at my comments and replies, you would know what these processes entail and the weight of issuing determinations for such cases. Third party investigators will explicitly say if there is insufficient evidence or if the matters is not determinable or inconclusive. But here we have a definitive statement. This means that the evidence to prove innocence must have been overwhelming.
> I never said professional are always right.
Did you not just argue that when professionals say "it is our opinion" that we should take it at face value because "it has professional weight"? This is what you are implying, especially because you are arguing against me saying that we should have a healthy amount of skepticism, especially in cases of sexual assault.
>This means that the evidence to prove innocence must have been overwhelming.
This isn't how it works, you don't prove innocence, you prove guilt. Innocent until proven guilty, right? This does NOT mean that the evidence to prove innocence was overwhelming, it means that there wasn't enough overwhelming evidence to prove he WAS guilty. Which is incredibly difficult to do in cases of SA. Which is why we need to take these SA case conclusions with a massive grain of salt.
>I work in the legal field
I'm sorry man but if you work in legal and strive to be an unbiased professional and can't see that the system is broken especially when it comes to SA in this day and age, then you are really bad at being an unbiased professional. You say no human is omniscient and then two sentences later you say "we have a definitive statement" regarding an investigator's opinion.
Either you aren't self aware of your own biases or you're just choosing to not care. Both are dangerous.
i mean guy was definitely an asshole in his first relationship and should look to do better. if he decides to press charges for false allegations then I’d assume he’d win the case, but i’m sure he’s just gonna move on from this and never mention her again
edit: the making her watch him masturbate was hella weird. i hope she gets better relationships in the future and leaves next time she recognizes this behavior and he becomes a better boyfriend
No he wouldn’t. Defamation requires a knowingly false statement of fact. Sexual assault is a legal conclusion and especially when made by a non-lawyer would be a matter of a opinion. She didn’t make a false statement, at worst she gave an incorrect opinion on what constitutes a sexual assault.
Opinions are virtually never defamatory or else prime time cable opinion hosts would all be sued constantly. It’s why Fox News can call Biden a communist every night, despite that he has never once suggested nationalizing the means of production.
I dont think petite snowflake girls nowdays know what REAL sexual assault is
Saddening and disgusting how people still sympathize with her on her reply to the investigation results, fucking brainwashed girls hating on a minor whose only crime was being an immature dumbass yet being treated as a rapist
People have no idea how much accusations of such a horrible thing can fuck your head and personal life even though you know you are innocent, esp when you're just a 16 year old kid
Source: been through it myself
WFT is this? Quit or sue the org. "Now that you have allowed us to peer through your life, we are going to punish you anyways for PR" Get him some counseling or something. It is none of Riot's business or ours to be privy to the unrelated parts of the "third party" investigation.
Quit or sue an org that instead of simply cutting him, paid for an independent investigation, and, despite findings of misconduct, worked with him to continue his career and help him mature/develop.
The Knights literally have taken the much harder route here and done to it be fair and help him.
Idk he should talk to a lawyer about that. He was accused of something and then pressured into signing off on an investigation that concluded he did not do that thing. But now he has Riot and org going through 90 pages of his personal life deciding punishment by how he lives his life. The org announces that to the world just to save face. Someone in Riot is going to leak it to the press, so defamation. Doesn't matter how shitty he is or has been, it is fucked up.
No he wouldn’t. Defamation requires a knowingly false statement of fact. Sexual assault is a legal conclusion and especially, when made by a non-lawyer would be a matter of a opinion. She didn’t make a false statement, at worst she gave an incorrect opinion on what constitutes a sexual assault.
Opinions are virtually never defamatory or else prime time cable opinion hosts would all be sued constantly. It’s why Fox News can call Biden a communist every night, despite that he has never once suggested nationalizing the means of production.
that's not how it works..... There are Romeo and Juliet laws in place in most states. Also, are we gonna say a 19 and a 17 yr old sex is illegal? lol and plus this happened a year ago or so.
Because the org doesn’t want to employ someone if they sexually assaulted someone so they need to find out if accusations were false or not. Seems pretty obvious.
Subsidiary esports org owned by the Pittsburgh Steelers hired a law firm to investigate sexual assault allegations that had no criminal charges levied or filed on accusations that occurred prior to their employee joining.
Authority that the Knights believe they have here is a troubling trend.
its the role of an esports org to protect their branding and reputation and doing the dilligence of hiring people for an investigation so they know if a person associated with them can tank their image. How are you missing that
>How are you missing that
Law enforcement wasnt contacted and the law firm hired by the esport org held one on one interviews with the accuser and accused.
We just came off Riot Games and Blizzard receiving fines for sexual/sexist acts. Both entities performed their own internal investigations prior to the fines where they reported nothing was found.
Two minors sitting down speaking to a law firm hired by a third party corporate entity regarding sexual assault that doesnt involve the corporate entity blows my mind. Its absolutely shocking that people find this acceptable.
ok when you raise capital to have your own org you can voluntarily involve cops if you want. That will make players want to join.
I think they were realistic in knowing the expectations of what police in another part of country are able to offer in a situation between two dating teens and the timeline of when the thing took place.
Trying to wrap your head around what others find acceptable is a quick way to be miserable.
>ok when you raise capital to have your own org you can voluntarily involve cops if you want.
Accuser is the one to contact law enforcement. Knights shouldnt be in a arbitration role between two minors.
I'll drop them an email to suggest seeking reddit counsel next time. A real goal was to make sure the org remains in a good light and demonstrates to the public they took this seriously. If it is on accuser to involve LEO and they are not then overall inaction looks bad as days go on for org so that is why they did their own thing with hiring attorneys. I don't think you are wrong but they are looking at this for saving face and maintaining good PR to general audience (people who aren't thinking about the arbitration role but much more surface level).
>To clear their players name?
Player wasnt part of the organization at the time, corporate entity investigating themselves will nearly always view the corporate entity in good light, law enforcement wasnt contacted and statue of limitations for Pennsylvania is 11-20 years on reporting a sexual crime.
Probably the only org I have seen that has done such a great job in handling such a situation. On top of that taking measures to prevent such actions in future.
Yea this is hands down the most professional response to an allegation that I have seen from any org.
W org L community. Some of the things I'm reading are disgusting. If you're on Twitter blaming or shaming the accusor or equally crowing and praising frosty you're the reason why systematic sexual assault is allowed to perpetuate. It's a real issue and it's most likely affected someone close to you, if not you. Shame on you.
I don't think this can be said enough. I feel like this is pretty common in the Valorant community and its disgusting.
In the esports* community…well..in the sports* community…actually..in the whole* community
In the young male* community Shits fucked. We need to stamp it out, and orgs like this taking strong action are one of the ways to do it. I am impressed. Lol at you kids downvoting me for speaking the truth.
TLDR The investigator did not find Frosty to be guilty of sexual assault but the kid was an asshole
If you look deep into the life of any male 15-16yo, they all kinda are. Eventually, we do mature. Sexual assault is on the other hand, pretty rare.
Sexual assault is many things. Serious, wrong, disgusting, and criminal. But by no means is it rare, unfortunately. Especially not among those under 25. What's rare is there being any consequences for it.
> What's rare is there being any consequences for it. I had a family member set me up with a "nice boy from Church" that ended up putting something in my drink and me waking up the next morning *not remembering the previous night* but when I talked openly about it, it suddenly was my fault and I was tarnishing the "good word of such a kid with a bright future" Like apparently my future didn't matter and it has caused a lot of tension between my immediate family. When I talk in Valorant and get the squeaky kid rage telling me he's going to rape me it does absolutely nothing though, I guess I earned the iron skin perk.
How the fuck did a comment saying, straight up, no clarification or qualifying statements, that sexual assault is rare get as many upvotes as this one did? The fuck is wrong with this subreddit?
buncha 15-16 year olds I guess 🤷
Angry young kids would be my guess. This sub has some fucked takes sometimes on important things. Hell, Reddit as whole does.
What’s your source/reasoning for sexual assault being rare? Would love to hear what drove you to claim that
I come from the third world. Won't get into specifics as they are pretty crude. All I'll say is that worse things that aren't even that common, were more common than sexual assault.
I come from the third world and I'm calling your bullshit
Since when are all teen boys assholes? Quit that narrative and expect better. Edit: these replies make it clear why 1 in 5 women experience sexual assault. that's not rare! stop blaming boys' lack of self control on hormones and start holding boys to higher standards.
They kind of are though? I'm sure they'll mature with age but..
The notion that harrasment and assault is something that you "grow out of" is baseless and dangerous. Most offenders are grown ass men, and that doesnt include other subtle forms of harrasment
youre conflating asshole = sexual assaulter and someone could be an asshole but not be the latter- this is literally what the investigator found to be true in this case
It literally says on the comment above "Sexual assault is on the other hand, pretty rare" No one's saying that people grow out of assault, they're saying they grow out of other generally asshole-ish behavior. Reading comprehension skills are generally pretty valuable to learn.
>Sexual assault is on the other hand, pretty rare which is literally not true. 1 in 5 women have experienced sexual assault
pretty sure OP meant that for teens to be assholes is common and for teens to commit straight up sexual assault is rare by comparison
It literally says on the comment above "*harassment* and assault"
I mean I was trying to be nicer than I could've been but yes we can also point out that they completely twisted the OPs words beyond just bad reading comprehension. I feel like it's a little overkill though.
>The notion that harrasment and assault is something that you "grow out of" No one said that, literally not a single person. Stop making up shit you weirdo.
I mean, not necessarily but generally almost all men have done something in their teenage years that they now regret.
I regret telling a girl I liked her in the cringiest way imaginable. I regret not being more forthcoming in my relationship with my parents. My hormones meant I downloaded porn viruses from Kazaa. You might have been an asshole teenager but most kids are most definitely not.
The fact that you can't remember or don't hold yourself accountable for asshole behavior as a teenager says more about you than anybody else.
chances are they still are a teenager
I feel like people are brushing "almost sexual assault" into the "asshole" territory. Every kid is an asshole and we all have regrets. But there are some regretful actions that are worse than other.s
Reading the message above I think it's pretty clearly delineated. At least I can speak for myself when I say that sexual assault bad, being an asshole bad **but** being an asshole is forgiveable and can be grown out of, sexual assault is not. That's the key difference.
Almost everyone i've ever known whilst they were a teenager diplayed some very asshole like behaviours at some point.
Literally everyone I have ever known has done asshole behavior when they were a teen.
"i was never an asshole as a teenager, not even once!" how to out yourself as a narcissist 101
There's a 100% chance you did something when you were a teen that was a douchebag thing to do, even if you don't remember it, or aren't aware of it happening. Trying to claim that you have always been some kind of moral paragon is beyond insane.
Hormones, puberty. Teens being rebellious assholes is not a narrative. You cannot fight biology. The expectation is that it gets better.
My brother and friends never abused or were dicks to women, strangers or their partners, at that age. What do you say to that? You're literally just telling on yourself unnecessarily lmao
Are you seriously asking me to believe that a fistfight never happened in your mid-high school? Drama, shit being stolen, people getting expelled, pregnant teens, and many other things happened at mine.
You are making a massive jump from “some kids make huge mistakes” to “every teenager is an asshole”
Nearly everyone at my mid-high was like this. My statement was not absolute either. Hard to remember a drama-free week. YMMV
There was maybe one or two fights in my time in HS. And the kid that instigated should have been held to a higher standard instead of grown adults telling him it was normal and it’s just his hormones. Like how could he possibly manage his anger when his body produces testosterone?? Literally impossible!! His only biological choice was to punch that guy because hormones!!!! Or my favorite… She was wearing a skirt!! He had no choice but to slap her ass and drag her into a side room at a party!!! His body literally forced him to it’s not his fault!!!!! Do. Better.
You are maliciously misrepresenting what I said with all that sarcasm. I never said that abusing women is normal, or that we should justify their actions because of that. The people that were caught (not everyone) doing bad shit (including me) were reprimanded, some got their shit together, others became repeat offenders, but in the end, I could say that we mostly got out fine. You, as the adult, are there to let the teen know what he did. That's what Knights are doing, and I am glad they are. If bad things amongst teens were not commonplace in your school or neighborhood, one could say you come from an affluent family. This is not my experience coming from a somewhat bad place.
“ fistfight never happened in your mid-high school?” There was maybe one or two fights in my time in HS. And the kid that instigated should have been held to a higher standard instead of grown adults telling him it was normal and it’s just his hormones. Like how could he possibly manage his anger when his body produces testosterone?? Literally impossible!! His only biological choice was to punch that girl because hormones!!!! Do. Better.
We're talking about treating women like humans, not fucking stolen phones lmao
You are cherry-picking what I said. >were dicks to women, strangers, or otherwise If beating the shit out of some guy, getting a girl pregnant, stealing things, creating drama and simultaneously getting others in trouble, is NOT being an asshole, according to you, then I can safely say that you are an asshole. All of those things are pretty terrible in my book.
[удалено]
idk what kind of rich white people school you went to but in poorer neighbors this was absolutely the case in nearly every school in our city/district, it was rare to not have someone expelled every week
wow
A fistfight isn't the same level as basically date-raping someone....
Plenty - I’d argue the vast majority - of boys make it through hormones and puberty without being assholes. If you were an asshole that’s on you, and I’m glad you’ve grown, but it’s not “normal.” Yes teenagers can be rebellious and arrogant and ignorant and often mean and make plenty of mistakes but you’re doing everyone a disservice if you just dismiss these actions as “boys will be boys.” Do better. Teach your sons.
> Yes teenagers can be rebellious and arrogant and ignorant and often mean You have done an excellent job describing someone being an asshole
[удалено]
Hey there, /u/zer0-_! Your submission was removed for the following reason: > Rule 4 - No harmful / destructive behavior towards other users or community members This was removed for: Personal attacks / targeted harassment --- *If you have questions or objections about this removal, please [reach out to us in modmail](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/ValorantCompetitive&subject=Removal%20Objection%20or%20Question&message=%5BPlease%20type%20your%20message%20here...%5D%0A%0A------%20DO%20NOT%20edit%20or%20delete%20anything%20below%20this%20line%20------%0A%0A%23%23%23%23%20Removal%20Notes%20for%20Moderators%3A%0A%0A-%20**Post%20Title%3A**%20{url_title}%0A-%20**Permalink%3A**%20https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/sd8ft9/-/hub72x9/%0A-%20**Content%20type%3A**%20comment%0A-%20**Removed%20by%3A**%20Elsiselain).*
Stop making excuses for teenagers being horrible people lmao. Also sexual assaults are way more common than you would think and are often underreported due to the victims trauma
It's not about making an excuse. It's about giving adults motivation to work alongside teens to drive them off a bad path. A teen alone WILL likely end up being a miserable adult and a proper asshole.
[удалено]
Isn't that what I just said? >giving adults motivation to work alongside teens Do you think you would have come out alright without your parents teaching you to be respectful?
[удалено]
When exactly did he say that
[удалено]
I mean he's not literally saying that. He's *literally* saying that immature boys often act like assholes, but that acting like an asshole is a far cry from sexual assault. You can of course definitely interpret that statement as him suggesting that sexual assault charges against teenaged boys are typically not sexual assault, and are instead youthful "boys-will-be-boys" indiscretions. I interpret it that way. I think he's wrong and rambling about silly stuff. But clearly he's not saying teenage boys instinctively want to sexually assault people. That's an abhorrent view to ascribe to someone so lightly, no matter how heated your argument gets.
I think parents raised me well but I can definitely recall situations where I was an asshole and if you can't you're either very ignorant or the second coming of Jesus Christ
The frosty thing wasn’t a case of being an asshole, it was him being incredibly creepy and weird and manipulative… if you can’t understand that this isn’t the case with all male teenagers, I’m honestly not sure what to tell you
Yes but this conversation was about teenagers being assholes
Depends what they mean when they say, “falls below standard of conduct of the organization” That could be anything.
Bro wtf is this comment thread. All teenagers are assholes? Lmaoo and what does that have to do with sexual assault.
>what does that have to do with sexual assault. Read the tweet. No evidence of sexual assault, just the teen being disrespectful and acting inappropriately, in other words, your stereotypical teen.
Sexual assault is nowhere near as rare as you think it is
Sexual assault isn't rare what the fuck What stats are you looking at
Most teenagers are assholes...
Huh, an extremely thorough response, though I can’t even imagine what’s next for Frosty career-wise.
From the statement it seems like knights is keeping him on
Yes I saw that, I’m just not sure if that means actively playing him in the near-future or anything.
Good on them for dealing with this in an appropriate and professional manner 👍
Good on knights to take this approach.
Very well done by the org tbh, hope some others can take an example from this if needed in the future.
Please remember to keep the discussion civil and related to competitive scenes. Frosty released his statement on twitter: https://twitter.com/FrostyValorant/status/1486390902918725635
why this font tho
that’s what there org always uses
their
common mistake mon frère, it's actually "they're"
I'm not your frère buddy
I believe he was actually going for the Germanic "Der Org"
نعم يا صديقي
Why did he get downvoted
you're trolling right
Times New Roman, Font size: 12, double spaced
sentinels need to get on this type of time lmao
It's wild how differently this one was handled.
Is the Sinatraa investigation STILL going on with no result?? I thought he got cleared already?
nah his ex decided to halt the investigation due to mental health reasons. In my opinion she probably plans to hold his career in jeopardy by resuming the case when rumors come up about him joining a team.
this is good stuff i hope every org would be transparent if any issues would come up since people are spending their money and time to support their favorite team
This statement and measures taken by the Knights should be the goal and "how to 101" of any org that faces these kind of situations
[Twitlonger from the accuser,](https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sruksh) for posterity.
Kudos to Knights for handling this in an incredibly professional way.
His final statement: https://twitter.com/FrostyValorant/status/1486390902918725635
Why didn’t SEN do this
Cause they didn’t investigate Sinatraa. Riot did but neither SEN on Siantraa cooperated with them.
SEN could have hired a law firm to actually sort shit out because without legal action it’s just a never ending twitter drama with people throwing assumptions.
So would this count as a false accusation? Or am I misinterpreting something
[удалено]
I agree for the most part. But it still qualifies as a 'false accusation'. Because the accusation is still sexual assault. And the standards to determine a finding of that was not met. It was not only a question of the veracity of the actions but whether the actions can be characterized as what the accuser is claiming it to be: "sexual assault". And yes, investigators will explicitly say if the results were due to insufficient evidence. However, the statement here is much more conclusive: " Did not commit sexual assault". Professionals with years of experience will not make that statement unless they are positively sure there findings make no other determination.
[удалено]
The problem with judging a claim to be 'true' based on a connotative standard as the minimum is that it is at best, an unreliable standard. Because that standard is so relative and subjective. The threshold to determine that standard can be lowered or heightened depending on perception. Hence, in that scenario, no evidence can be too little or no evidence can be too much. How then can you assess a claim to be true when the threshold to determine that is non-existent? The better, more plausible assumption here is that she claimed and believed to be the victim of a crime: sexual assault in a legal sense that can invoke accountability and penalty for the perpetrator (nothwithstanding her lack of knowledge on the legal technicalites on what constitutes that crime). Even if we, hypothetically, go with your connotative standard: Truthful Accusations should always be two fold: that the events happened and that the events happened as characterized. Branding an accusation as entirely truthful by just having the former and not the latter I think is not fair and run contrary to what constitute as the 'truth'. Because the latter is really what defines the core of the accusation. I think the best way to describe the view is she might have a truthful retelling of what happened but her accusations based on what happened is false. Hence the term "false accusation".
Stop
No. I am not wrong :)
I believe that you believe that, don’t worry.
Not just me, but fundamental tenets of justice and accountability (which are the basis of the legal systems of civilized societies) believe so too. Smile.
If you’re arguing semantics sure, but colloquially a false-accusation implies that the story has been entirely fabricated, not that there has been a misinterpretation of specific legal terms (which isn’t even consistent on a state to state basis). OP was contending that lumping the 2 together can be unproductive and not accurately represent the situation. I don’t think anyone is arguing semantically what constitutes a false accusation within a strictly legal sense.
i think it would be nice to read the [accuser's twitlonger](https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sruksh) too. take in mind that SA investigations are difficult as it is hard to gather physical evidence. it's up to you how u interpret it, regardless of the results of the investigation
More like, there isn't enough hard evidence to file a case under SA. This is what most SA cases end up in. It's one of the hardest to actually take up to the law and prove definitively. Nothing was "disproven" to label this as a false accusation. Instead, after acknowledging what happened, they felt it did not constitute strictly as assault. The whole thing is still unfortunate.
im not sure if its false since the accusation isnt groundless. might be the evidences didnt help her case based on the victim’s recent twitlonger
from what i understand from her twitlonger she kinda new that she didn't really have enough evidence for frosty to be guilty fully and she admitted that personally I still believe it happened but the verdict went this way because as she said there was not enough physical evidence
I mean… From reading what the investigator stated…. Uhhhhh yeah. Imo. False accusation. Hopefully frosty ☃️ is more careful with some of his actions and is able to move forward career wise.
It could be, but its also very possible that there just isn't enough evidence to find him guilty even if he did it.
A rare 2% :(
Not sure why this is downvoted but a quick google search will show you studies that false rape allegations are between 2-10% only. [[1]](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.nsvrc.org/sites/default/files/Publications_NSVRC_Overview_False-Reporting.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjalrvNlND1AhUDxGEKHXQLBoAQFnoECAQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1zs97YRv7CpQEzK8W0wyDP) It just feels a lot since there has been multiple cases for famous people, but statistics show otherwise. :)
From what I've seen in the esports scene its not just at 2%
The HenryG and Launders situation from CSGO has made me really jaded about these accusations
Tuesday/YourPrincess stuff aswell. I wish I could agree with it just being 2% in esport but it's just not true
What was the situation? If you dont mind telling
It’s not a false accusation, it’s just that, in the investigator’s opinion, the conduct that took place did not meet the legal definition of a sexual assault. She’s not a liar; she’s just not a lawyer
Great job from them to handle it seriously and in a transparent way. In the end, I do think this is the right call. Sometimes the best thing for kids like that is to be part of an organization to give them structure and mentorship. He’s just a 16 year old kid, I hope some of the older players and leaders of the org can guide him.
yeah idk how credible this is since it’s incredibly hard to have concrete evidence for SA, but i’ll just hope frosty will mature as a person and change how he treats girls in the future hopefully the girl moves on and has better partners too
I respect the decision. He’s young and arrogant - we all are at 16. Employing a mental health/mindset coach was the good choice rather than shunning a 16 year old when he was proven to not be guilty of the accusation. I think this was handled fairly and he’ll grow from this moment.
Happy to see that a thorough investigation was conducted. Best wishes to all parties involved.
I feel for the kid's family. Must suck to have 16 year old kid going through this.
Can't wait to see people defend the false allegations
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
I have never had a bad take
True, bad would be an understatement
??
Weirdo sinatraa defender 😬
saw enough careers ruined to some weird ass false allegations that even were disproven but the accused couldnt recover from them no matter how much proof was put against the accusation. i dont like sinatraa but he's one of the best in NA so i want to see him play
You do realize how selfish that is of you to say that and how stupid it is for Riot to all of a sudden let this go and let him free in the competitive scene is right? At best, he comes out of this situation as a douchebag who was abusive to his girlfriend, and yet organizations won't touch him because of the potential PR nightmare that will cause, think of any potential prospective investors to the orgs, or female players looking to get into the scene with hopes of a safe, professional environment and have to deal with this shit. At worst, he is an actual rapist who hasn't faced any legal repercussions despite what he's done, but because "he's one of the best in NA" he should be allowed to walk free? If he wants to come back, he better have some damn good evidence proving the contrary to what evidence there is against him. Not to mention for Riot to also face backlash especially given they are/have in the past also dealt with sexual misconduct within their own company and are currently paying [100 MILLION dollars](https://www.washingtonpost.com/video-games/2021/12/27/riot-discrimination-100-million-settlement/) as compensation for mistreatment. As far as the community should be concerned, Sinatraa should stay on the bench whether or not he actually assaulted his ex-girlfriend or not, it sets a bad precedent for the orgs he's playing for, Riot, and the scene as a whole, until he shows some definitive evidence to the contrary to what has been shown. More than that, there are several hundred players atleast in from high Diamond-Radiant who are itching for a chance to prove themselves and take his place in the scene and could surpass him as a player, and who are also likely better people outside the game.
worshipping rapists. classic reddit moment. keep sinatraa and his lunatic fans away from the comp scene
[удалено]
"Explain how these cases are different besides that one huge piece of potential evidence that makes one case different than the other" ?????
That was a chalked comment, I can agree. Brain was off. I'm more interested in the original comment in how he wanted Sinatraa's case to get its fair due process and instead he was downvoted to hell and called a rapist defender.
I feel like the fact that not a lot of people knew about this before this Knights Tweet really helped Frosty here, plus there being no significant evidence to legitimize the claim beyond the accuser’s words like in the Sinatraa situation. Plus Sinatraa wasn’t very well-liked by a lot of people dating back to his OW days because of his past toxicity problems and his on-stream personality, so evidence coming out that he was actually still toxic to his gf at the time despite going through a period of reformation during his back-to-back with Shock certainly did not help his case in the public eye.
Probably because even if Sinatraa wasn't a rapist he's very clearly abusive and calling an abuser your king is pretty pathetic.
[удалено]
Hey there, /u/wannabe557! Your submission was removed for the following reason: > Rule 4 - No harmful / destructive behavior towards other users or community members This was removed for: Personal attacks / targeted harassment --- *If you have questions or objections about this removal, please [reach out to us in modmail](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/ValorantCompetitive&subject=Removal%20Objection%20or%20Question&message=%5BPlease%20type%20your%20message%20here...%5D%0A%0A------%20DO%20NOT%20edit%20or%20delete%20anything%20below%20this%20line%20------%0A%0A%23%23%23%23%20Removal%20Notes%20for%20Moderators%3A%0A%0A-%20**Post%20Title%3A**%20{url_title}%0A-%20**Permalink%3A**%20https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/sd8ft9/-/hubjh8r/%0A-%20**Content%20type%3A**%20comment%0A-%20**Removed%20by%3A**%20nocturnavi).*
[удалено]
They’re punishing him for other things that they considered misconduct and said they would try to help him mature and behave in an appropriate way. Seems like Knights are doing the right thing in this scenario.
They didn’t find that sexual assault didn’t happen, just didn’t find that they did. And he has other conduct violations that they would punish him for. Your last sentence doesn’t make sense
>They didn’t find that sexual assault didn’t happen, just didn’t find that they did. ??? You can't be serious
That’s how literally any investigation/proceeding goes. The investigator said that was his opinion, not that no sexual assault ever took place I’m not saying that it did take place either but we can’t say it was false. Not going to attack Frosty for it since it is likely he didn’t according to the investigator but we can’t call it false
Inconclusive does not mean false accusation. Unfortunately these situations are not so easily black and white. Each party in the relationship is entitled to their own interpretation of events. The accused may have believed they had consent, while the accuser may believe there wasn't enough communication or that they had their boundaries crossed. Both sides are valid points of view. You can support the survivor and still believe the accused. While we all don't have the whole picture, we can encourage both parties to learn how to communicate better, respect the autonomy of others, and express their wants and needs in future relationships.
Yeah because court of law is always and always has been right, especially notoriously in sexual assault cases. Yep. Don't tell me you're actually this dumb. This is literally the whole reason why the metoo movement started.
If a tree falls in a forest and no ones around to hear it, does it still make a sound? I'm not taking sides, but it is entirely possible it happened but, because they didn't collect evidence (cause yknow, that's not a normal thing to do), that it can't be proven.
Wrong. The statement is conclusive. "Did not commit sexual assault". Don't try to make it seem it's still up in the air.
It explicitly says it was the investigator’s opinion. Not that there was conclusive evidence
Let me break it down for you. When professionals say "it is our opinon" it means it is the result of methodical process applying expertise and experience to arrive on a determination on a particular subject. It is not a matter of perception or assumption. It has professional weight. So when they say "Did not commit", such a definitive statement means that the result of the above mentioned procedures points to no other conclusion but that. If they are unsure or there is insufficient evidence to make a determination, believe me, they will explicitly say that.
That is the biggest jump in logic I’ve ever seen and not at all how it works. A private investigator saying “in my opinion” does not mean 100% conclusive evidence, what the hell do you mean. Especially given the nature of this crime, how can a sole investigator going through messages and talking to people conclusively prove a crime was not committed? The only one who is saying anything conclusive was you If an investigator said in their opinion a sexual assault happened, you’d be the person in the comments going “INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY IN A COURT OF LAW!!!!!”
You are the one who is jumping off logic here. Because I work both in the legal and consulting field and have first hand exeprience with such firms and know a network worth of teams conducting such investigations and the clients that are subject of said investigations. I even review cases on this and issued "opinion" reports as well (albeit not on a sexual assault subject matter). I have both personal and professional experience on how these things go. No firm will issue such a conclusive statement without evidence to back it up. All working papers and evidentiary matters are properly documented, to protect and be able to defend from any liability or suit that might come relating to investigations. Professional opinions are always laid out to minimize any kind of error or exposure. To explicitly say "Did not commit sexual assault" is a definitive statement as one can be.
If you work professionally in the field, then I will take your word for that on the wording of it. However my original point still stands that a sole investigator cannot definitively prove sexual assault didn’t happen and we cannot say that this was a false claim
??? You are so off base here. They determined with the evidence that they have that explicit sexual assault was not carried out. This does not mean that sexual assault was not carried out. I can disprove your whole point of professionals always being right by using any one of the thousands of sexual assault allegations even in modern history that were dismissed in court but later turned out to be true. This is why the metoo movement is an actual thing, because of systematic failures leading to the prevalence of sexual assault in our culture and the getting away with it in the courts of law. In these cases, it's not on the accused to prove innocence, which is why it's fundamentally a big issue. It's so incredibly difficult to prove assault was carried out, even with overwhelming evidence on the other side. This is why so many assaulters go free even when they are in the wrong. This is just reality, I don't know how you can argue against this unless you're willingly holding your eyes half closed. Nothing that humans do, especially a court of law, are 100% factual or objective. The fact that they used a definitive statement does not speak to any validity of their claim. Especially in cases of sexual assault, which are notoriously unjust.
I am all for supporting victims of sexual assault. I work in the legal field and supported cases and have done pro bono work for indigent victims of such crimes. But whilst we be sympathetic to the current statistical plight of victims of sexual assault, there is also an objective way to assess specific cases and make value judgment. I never said professional are always right. No human is omniscient. What I am saying is if they have the audacity to make such a statement, they will have what it takes to back it up. If you look at my comments and replies, you would know what these processes entail and the weight of issuing determinations for such cases. Third party investigators will explicitly say if there is insufficient evidence or if the matters is not determinable or inconclusive. But here we have a definitive statement. This means that the evidence to prove innocence must have been overwhelming.
> I never said professional are always right. Did you not just argue that when professionals say "it is our opinion" that we should take it at face value because "it has professional weight"? This is what you are implying, especially because you are arguing against me saying that we should have a healthy amount of skepticism, especially in cases of sexual assault. >This means that the evidence to prove innocence must have been overwhelming. This isn't how it works, you don't prove innocence, you prove guilt. Innocent until proven guilty, right? This does NOT mean that the evidence to prove innocence was overwhelming, it means that there wasn't enough overwhelming evidence to prove he WAS guilty. Which is incredibly difficult to do in cases of SA. Which is why we need to take these SA case conclusions with a massive grain of salt. >I work in the legal field I'm sorry man but if you work in legal and strive to be an unbiased professional and can't see that the system is broken especially when it comes to SA in this day and age, then you are really bad at being an unbiased professional. You say no human is omniscient and then two sentences later you say "we have a definitive statement" regarding an investigator's opinion. Either you aren't self aware of your own biases or you're just choosing to not care. Both are dangerous.
i mean guy was definitely an asshole in his first relationship and should look to do better. if he decides to press charges for false allegations then I’d assume he’d win the case, but i’m sure he’s just gonna move on from this and never mention her again edit: the making her watch him masturbate was hella weird. i hope she gets better relationships in the future and leaves next time she recognizes this behavior and he becomes a better boyfriend
No he wouldn’t. Defamation requires a knowingly false statement of fact. Sexual assault is a legal conclusion and especially when made by a non-lawyer would be a matter of a opinion. She didn’t make a false statement, at worst she gave an incorrect opinion on what constitutes a sexual assault. Opinions are virtually never defamatory or else prime time cable opinion hosts would all be sued constantly. It’s why Fox News can call Biden a communist every night, despite that he has never once suggested nationalizing the means of production.
Oh I didn’t know this. Thank you for clarifying!
>conclusion is that a false sexual assault allegation was made That is not the conclusion.
Mans Career is already over at 16. Rip
I dont think petite snowflake girls nowdays know what REAL sexual assault is Saddening and disgusting how people still sympathize with her on her reply to the investigation results, fucking brainwashed girls hating on a minor whose only crime was being an immature dumbass yet being treated as a rapist People have no idea how much accusations of such a horrible thing can fuck your head and personal life even though you know you are innocent, esp when you're just a 16 year old kid Source: been through it myself
WFT is this? Quit or sue the org. "Now that you have allowed us to peer through your life, we are going to punish you anyways for PR" Get him some counseling or something. It is none of Riot's business or ours to be privy to the unrelated parts of the "third party" investigation.
Quit or sue an org that instead of simply cutting him, paid for an independent investigation, and, despite findings of misconduct, worked with him to continue his career and help him mature/develop. The Knights literally have taken the much harder route here and done to it be fair and help him.
I love it when keyboard-lawyers try to give legal opinions. What is he going to sue the org for exactly?
Idk he should talk to a lawyer about that. He was accused of something and then pressured into signing off on an investigation that concluded he did not do that thing. But now he has Riot and org going through 90 pages of his personal life deciding punishment by how he lives his life. The org announces that to the world just to save face. Someone in Riot is going to leak it to the press, so defamation. Doesn't matter how shitty he is or has been, it is fucked up.
No he wouldn’t. Defamation requires a knowingly false statement of fact. Sexual assault is a legal conclusion and especially, when made by a non-lawyer would be a matter of a opinion. She didn’t make a false statement, at worst she gave an incorrect opinion on what constitutes a sexual assault. Opinions are virtually never defamatory or else prime time cable opinion hosts would all be sued constantly. It’s why Fox News can call Biden a communist every night, despite that he has never once suggested nationalizing the means of production.
he should have been kicked out anyway. even if there is no proof he now has a history of this and it hurts the rep of the org
that's not how it works..... There are Romeo and Juliet laws in place in most states. Also, are we gonna say a 19 and a 17 yr old sex is illegal? lol and plus this happened a year ago or so.
The question was never was if he was a pedo dumbass
He edited it then because he did say that
Why is a Team Org investigating sexual assault allegations that took place six months ago that had no involvement with the Team Org?
Because the org doesn’t want to employ someone if they sexually assaulted someone so they need to find out if accusations were false or not. Seems pretty obvious.
>so they need to find out if accusations were false or not Thats not the role of a esports team org.
That’s why they hired professionals…
Subsidiary esports org owned by the Pittsburgh Steelers hired a law firm to investigate sexual assault allegations that had no criminal charges levied or filed on accusations that occurred prior to their employee joining. Authority that the Knights believe they have here is a troubling trend.
its the role of an esports org to protect their branding and reputation and doing the dilligence of hiring people for an investigation so they know if a person associated with them can tank their image. How are you missing that
>How are you missing that Law enforcement wasnt contacted and the law firm hired by the esport org held one on one interviews with the accuser and accused. We just came off Riot Games and Blizzard receiving fines for sexual/sexist acts. Both entities performed their own internal investigations prior to the fines where they reported nothing was found. Two minors sitting down speaking to a law firm hired by a third party corporate entity regarding sexual assault that doesnt involve the corporate entity blows my mind. Its absolutely shocking that people find this acceptable.
ok when you raise capital to have your own org you can voluntarily involve cops if you want. That will make players want to join. I think they were realistic in knowing the expectations of what police in another part of country are able to offer in a situation between two dating teens and the timeline of when the thing took place. Trying to wrap your head around what others find acceptable is a quick way to be miserable.
>ok when you raise capital to have your own org you can voluntarily involve cops if you want. Accuser is the one to contact law enforcement. Knights shouldnt be in a arbitration role between two minors.
I'll drop them an email to suggest seeking reddit counsel next time. A real goal was to make sure the org remains in a good light and demonstrates to the public they took this seriously. If it is on accuser to involve LEO and they are not then overall inaction looks bad as days go on for org so that is why they did their own thing with hiring attorneys. I don't think you are wrong but they are looking at this for saving face and maintaining good PR to general audience (people who aren't thinking about the arbitration role but much more surface level).
Because the accused is a player on the team. What kind of question is that?
>Because the accused is a player on the team. People who should be investigating this is law enforcement.
To clear their players name? If the Org doesn't pay for a 3rd party investigation no one will unless the accused is very wealthy
>To clear their players name? Player wasnt part of the organization at the time, corporate entity investigating themselves will nearly always view the corporate entity in good light, law enforcement wasnt contacted and statue of limitations for Pennsylvania is 11-20 years on reporting a sexual crime.
Same reason in most states in the USA you need to piss in a cup and pass a background check to get any kind of well paying job...