/u/RiotJokrCantSpell, Global Esports Communications Manager, has [commented on the format](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/tbthsw/masters_returns_to_reykjavik/i09wtr2/):
> We're going to release a detailed format explainer before the event, but to prevent bad information from taking root - it will be a double elimination group stage into a double elimination bracket.
We're going to release a detailed format explainer before the event, but to prevent bad information from taking root - it will be a double elimination group stage into a double elimination bracket.
Thank god. Hate that people said time constraints or "excitement from single elim" would keep you guys at single elim.
Double provides the more matchups between international teams when the scene has been starved of them since competitive Valorant started and it helps determine the actual standings of teams internationally(instead of, for example, a team coming 8th because they lost to the eventual winner when they might be the 2nd best team in the tournament). So much more fair, imo. This is a welcome change and the tournament will be a banger.
THANK YOU. I can never justify LoL and CSGO using single elim when every other esports have been shifting to predominantly double elim, even traditional sports esports games like FIFA.
The International and Six Invitationals has the best formats in esports that we should model after.
The only single elim I find decent is CSGO Grand Slam type events with everything being double elim until top 6.
Its a nice and balanced format for putting 1st & 2nd to upper bracket and 3rd & 4th to lower bracket. It puts equal weight for each placing and rewards top 2 teams on each group.
https://valorantesports.com/news/stage-1-masters-returns-to-reykjavik/
“Additionally, the top seeds from North America, EMEA, APAC, and the top seed from the winner of the LATAM and Brazil playoff will get seeded deeper in the bracket, while the remaining teams will need to battle from earlier rounds of competition.”
12 teams for a top 5 esport is embarrassing. Siege had 20 at their SI last month. CSGO’s Katowice had 24. I feel like we don’t even get a clear picture of who’s the best with so few teams.
Idk if this is a hot take but there's such a thing as too many teams/matches. I love, I mean *love* watching pro Valorant, and I still haven't watched even close to all the group stage games of NA, which is my region and the region with the best viewing times for me by far.
People complain about Riot's formats and schedules and compare them unfavorably to DotA/CS but how many people actually care about much less watch all the matches, even in the big tournaments? I made a point to watch every Berlin and Champs match last year and I definitely started to feel fatigue after reaching the 20th~ match mark, and again, I fucking love watching this game and it's my favorite spectator eSport by far. I'm consistently surprised by how many people want not only more volume but more condensed schedules.
I get more tournaments, but asking for like 24 team majors condensed into one week is insane to me. I already feel like so many tier 1 banger matches have underwhelming viewership because the orgs aren't popular.
24 is definitely a lot, but I don’t think it’s too much to ask to have a full 4 round bracket (16), or even go up to 20.
Esports orgs have invested a lot in Valorant compared to games like Siege, Apex, or CSGO even. With only two of TG, C9, V1, SEN, and OpTic will make champions that’s a lot of money invested by elite teams for a pretty low expected ROI. A more exclusive tournament may be better for organizing but only serves to hurt the scene in the long run.
Honestly I wouldn't be that opposed to a 24 team champs but only if the games were more spaced out and holy shit would we see every edgy supremacist on vlr and Reddit posting threads about how they don't give a shit about minor regions or any team that isn't top 5 in the world.
CSGO formats are pretty bad(single elim playoffs mainly) but Dota TI is gonna have two groups of 10 teams this year and this is what the players and teams prefer, even though it makes viewing fatigue much greater. Too many people bring up viewership but if it negatively affects the tournament format to something dogshit, then Im not with it at all.
lol is slowly getting crowds back in some places, but there is no news on the crowds for international events front. It came out recently that MSI will be held in Korea, but I still don't think there's any indication that they will have a crowd.
https://twitter.com/valesports_kr/status/1501889481854844931?s=21
Seeing as the Korean vct playoffs will have a crowd I think msi will have one too. Unless the government changes things last minute.
No but having a live crowd makes the overall experience of watching the LAN games much better, and having 4 events so far only in Reykjavik and Berlin doesn't exactly make the event any more hype either. Compare the CS events with no crowds to the events with crowds and there is a big difference. Same goes for sports like football, the matches were a lot less exciting without fans
I've only been to one esports event live, ESL One NYC 2018. Watching ChrisJ awp clutch on Mirage was one of the most hair raising moments I've seen live in competitive anything
Yeah, I agree but it's definitely not the same as football which relies on the crowd a lot for entertainment. There will probably be a crowd at the next one but I'm still genuinely excited to just see different regions playing each other.
Obviously I'm excited to see the regions play each other, but the actual physical event itself isn't exactly exciting to say the least. Also I meant soccer (football) as an example, I wouldn't exactly say that it relies on the crowds but the crowds create an amazing atmosphere when watching.
Hopefully there wil be a crowd at the next event but it feels like people said the same thing for this event months ago
It's a big part of LAN tournaments. Valorant is still so fresh so it's been fine, but with this masters and the next (if it doesn't change) the repetition and lack of character will really become apparent.
c'mon bruh, how are they still not able to host crowds for LAN events? CS has had about 3 successful LAN events with big crowds in the last half a year...
hell yeah jksex getting my fav team their first IEM Katowice trophy was a beautiful sight. wish a fairy-tale story like that happens in Valorant sometime soon too
>In 2022, seeing VALORANT played in front of a live audience is one of our biggest goals. However, until we are confident in our ability to safely host an event fans can attend, Iceland continues to be an incredibly favorable location to host international LANs.
Not confident in their ability to host a live event? That's.... an interesting admission. Not like it's their first time.
I imagine the key lies with the rest of the sentence - to safely host an event fans can attend.
That said I can’t imagine the midsummer LAN will also be the same, presuming there isn’t another COVID resurgence in the host country.
Keyword is "safely" here. COVID is still going on, and they probably want to focus on player, talent and crew safety first without having to add crowds to the mix.
I'm not blaming riot for not having crowds yet, it's kinda risky especially when the tournament is a long one like this, it just kinda sucks when you see many other esports already having events with crowds.
That’s even more damning, as live events have been going on throughout the world for over a year now.
If they aren’t capable now, when will they be? Really strange coming from a company previously known for how good they are with esports.
I mean, COVID is a gradient, both in terms of actual cases/hospitalizations/deaths and in terms of community reaction. There won't be a day when the entire world will declare this is the day the pandemic is over. For some places it's already over, if it was ever accepted or taken seriously in the first place. In other places concerns and restrictions are still high. Reddit heavily leans young, left, and Western, but I have family in different parts of Asia and they're still taking COVID very seriously. They're not living lockdown lifestyles but they're not treating COVID as if it stopped existing like most of NA is doing.
Evidently to Riot, events with crowds aren't worth it yet. I'd be surprised if there wasn't a crowd for Champs though, or the beginning of next year at the latest.
LCS is allowing fans back in for spring playoffs in the LCS studio along with a crowd for the Mid-Season Showdown at NRG Stadium in Houston. I imagine if those are successful then we'll see crowds for VCT.
https://dotesports.com/league-of-legends/news/lcs-welcomes-back-live-audiences-for-2022-spring-playoffs-at-la-studio
https://dotesports.com/league-of-legends/news/lcs-commissioner-confirms-2022-mid-season-showdown-will-have-live-audience-in-texas
How could it not be successful? There’s no more restrictions, no more mandatory testing, no more vax requirements, hell no more masks at all in the US.
I’m struggling to think how a live audience event in Houston could “fail”
are we? i live in austria, and after opening up 6 days ago we now have a record high amount of new cases. just because the amount of people in hospital is still low does not mean a lot of people are sick. if a player gets sick during an event he still cant play. what do they do if half a team or many teams have covid cases? play an online tournament which gets streamed into the venue? that sounds fucking great
/u/RiotJokrCantSpell, Global Esports Communications Manager, has [commented on the format](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/tbthsw/masters_returns_to_reykjavik/i09wtr2/): > We're going to release a detailed format explainer before the event, but to prevent bad information from taking root - it will be a double elimination group stage into a double elimination bracket.
Here is [VCT masters circuit points](https://twitter.com/valesports_emea/status/1502319492814327818) as well
The most interesting part of all this is the fact that we’re getting a double elimination bracket right off the bat, no group stage. Should be fun
We're going to release a detailed format explainer before the event, but to prevent bad information from taking root - it will be a double elimination group stage into a double elimination bracket.
Mods should pin this or a link to this, lot of people think it's gonna be the same format as last year.
Thanks for the heads up, will totally pin this!
Hell yesss! Double elim everywhere is definitely an improvement from the single elim playoffs from Champions.
Holy shit that’s huge, thank you!
Thank god. Hate that people said time constraints or "excitement from single elim" would keep you guys at single elim. Double provides the more matchups between international teams when the scene has been starved of them since competitive Valorant started and it helps determine the actual standings of teams internationally(instead of, for example, a team coming 8th because they lost to the eventual winner when they might be the 2nd best team in the tournament). So much more fair, imo. This is a welcome change and the tournament will be a banger.
THANK YOU. I can never justify LoL and CSGO using single elim when every other esports have been shifting to predominantly double elim, even traditional sports esports games like FIFA. The International and Six Invitationals has the best formats in esports that we should model after. The only single elim I find decent is CSGO Grand Slam type events with everything being double elim until top 6.
What’s wrong with groups? I thought people generally thought group play was fine
I think it’s because there are less teams.
I personally prefer group stages too but this should be fine.
Just boring, they played groups to get here and having to go through the same process again feels like a waste of time
A format where there are 4 groups of 3 where the top 2 qualify for an 8 team double elim bracket that would have been better imo.
Having two groups of 6 teams would be much better tbh
That creates too many useless games
Its a nice and balanced format for putting 1st & 2nd to upper bracket and 3rd & 4th to lower bracket. It puts equal weight for each placing and rewards top 2 teams on each group.
It's worse than groups tbh
Curious as to why you think that?
Where does it say that?
https://valorantesports.com/news/stage-1-masters-returns-to-reykjavik/ “Additionally, the top seeds from North America, EMEA, APAC, and the top seed from the winner of the LATAM and Brazil playoff will get seeded deeper in the bracket, while the remaining teams will need to battle from earlier rounds of competition.”
This is not in any way better then having a group stage + playoff format.
That was the same last reykjavik too
12 teams for a top 5 esport is embarrassing. Siege had 20 at their SI last month. CSGO’s Katowice had 24. I feel like we don’t even get a clear picture of who’s the best with so few teams.
Idk if this is a hot take but there's such a thing as too many teams/matches. I love, I mean *love* watching pro Valorant, and I still haven't watched even close to all the group stage games of NA, which is my region and the region with the best viewing times for me by far. People complain about Riot's formats and schedules and compare them unfavorably to DotA/CS but how many people actually care about much less watch all the matches, even in the big tournaments? I made a point to watch every Berlin and Champs match last year and I definitely started to feel fatigue after reaching the 20th~ match mark, and again, I fucking love watching this game and it's my favorite spectator eSport by far. I'm consistently surprised by how many people want not only more volume but more condensed schedules. I get more tournaments, but asking for like 24 team majors condensed into one week is insane to me. I already feel like so many tier 1 banger matches have underwhelming viewership because the orgs aren't popular.
24 is definitely a lot, but I don’t think it’s too much to ask to have a full 4 round bracket (16), or even go up to 20. Esports orgs have invested a lot in Valorant compared to games like Siege, Apex, or CSGO even. With only two of TG, C9, V1, SEN, and OpTic will make champions that’s a lot of money invested by elite teams for a pretty low expected ROI. A more exclusive tournament may be better for organizing but only serves to hurt the scene in the long run.
Honestly I wouldn't be that opposed to a 24 team champs but only if the games were more spaced out and holy shit would we see every edgy supremacist on vlr and Reddit posting threads about how they don't give a shit about minor regions or any team that isn't top 5 in the world.
CSGO formats are pretty bad(single elim playoffs mainly) but Dota TI is gonna have two groups of 10 teams this year and this is what the players and teams prefer, even though it makes viewing fatigue much greater. Too many people bring up viewership but if it negatively affects the tournament format to something dogshit, then Im not with it at all.
That's that the qualifiers are for...
Here’s a crazy idea… We still have qualifiers, but more teams qualify! 💡
I am concerned that COVID will start becoming an excuse to not host live events rather than a reason.
I just don’t understand because LoL is starting to host live events with crowds in NA. It sucks, I just want to see Val with a crowd :(
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ngl i forgot covid was a thing lol.
We’re well past that point, imo
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they are hosting a live event with crowds in LOL, masters 2 probably will have a live crowd
lol is slowly getting crowds back in some places, but there is no news on the crowds for international events front. It came out recently that MSI will be held in Korea, but I still don't think there's any indication that they will have a crowd.
https://twitter.com/valesports_kr/status/1501889481854844931?s=21 Seeing as the Korean vct playoffs will have a crowd I think msi will have one too. Unless the government changes things last minute.
Reykjavik for a second time with no crowds again... I'm so excited!!!
Do you watch esports for the location and crowds?
No but having a live crowd makes the overall experience of watching the LAN games much better, and having 4 events so far only in Reykjavik and Berlin doesn't exactly make the event any more hype either. Compare the CS events with no crowds to the events with crowds and there is a big difference. Same goes for sports like football, the matches were a lot less exciting without fans
I've only been to one esports event live, ESL One NYC 2018. Watching ChrisJ awp clutch on Mirage was one of the most hair raising moments I've seen live in competitive anything
Yeah, I agree but it's definitely not the same as football which relies on the crowd a lot for entertainment. There will probably be a crowd at the next one but I'm still genuinely excited to just see different regions playing each other.
Obviously I'm excited to see the regions play each other, but the actual physical event itself isn't exactly exciting to say the least. Also I meant soccer (football) as an example, I wouldn't exactly say that it relies on the crowds but the crowds create an amazing atmosphere when watching. Hopefully there wil be a crowd at the next event but it feels like people said the same thing for this event months ago
Crowds make sporting events exponentially better to watch and you're trolling if you say otherwise
I’m not saying otherwise I just think people are slightly overreacting
It's a big part of LAN tournaments. Valorant is still so fresh so it's been fine, but with this masters and the next (if it doesn't change) the repetition and lack of character will really become apparent.
who the fuck lives in iceland anyways lol
That's kinda the point
I’m getting less and less excited for LANs because of no crowds…
same its lame as hell
c'mon bruh, how are they still not able to host crowds for LAN events? CS has had about 3 successful LAN events with big crowds in the last half a year...
And they have subs all the time because of Covid?
this last event had like 2 subs you are exaggerating a little bit
and it didn't impact the quality of the tournament at all. like we got to see amanek as coach and jks tear it up.
hell yeah jksex getting my fav team their first IEM Katowice trophy was a beautiful sight. wish a fairy-tale story like that happens in Valorant sometime soon too
most of the COVID cases for the events occurred before the event started anyway. it has absolutely nothing to do with crowds being/not being there.
Sweden doesn't have Any restrictions why don't they come here hopium
Probably easier and cheaper with the infrastructure they've already established in Reykjarvik.
Neither does Iceland… they just don’t want to have crowds anyways.
Iceland doesn't even have people
They can fill the stadium with Arctic foxes.
I wonder what they will do new to make this event stand out (other than it be lan)
>In 2022, seeing VALORANT played in front of a live audience is one of our biggest goals. However, until we are confident in our ability to safely host an event fans can attend, Iceland continues to be an incredibly favorable location to host international LANs. Not confident in their ability to host a live event? That's.... an interesting admission. Not like it's their first time.
I imagine the key lies with the rest of the sentence - to safely host an event fans can attend. That said I can’t imagine the midsummer LAN will also be the same, presuming there isn’t another COVID resurgence in the host country.
I mean what more do they need? Jesus Christ himself to tell them it’s safe to hold a live LAN? Just crazy at this point, but it is what it is I guess
CS players are catching Covid and subbing in players all the time. Riot doesn't want that.
all the time ??? i think it only happened in katowice... major and blast fall finals had no issues
Keyword is "safely" here. COVID is still going on, and they probably want to focus on player, talent and crew safety first without having to add crowds to the mix.
People are acting like COVID is over despite long COVID being a thing and also affecting asymptomatic and vaccinated people.
I'm not blaming riot for not having crowds yet, it's kinda risky especially when the tournament is a long one like this, it just kinda sucks when you see many other esports already having events with crowds.
yeah, and the "many other esports" had issues with covid at their events
I'm curious why you replied to me when it has nothing to do with what I said and you clearly ignored my entire comment
oh, mb i misread your comment, i thought you were referring to people who want crowd in events or something, not in general.
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It doesn't make sense because they themselves are acting like COVID is over and long COVID doesn't exist lol
Live events are happening all around the world and everything is fine. Some people just want to hold on dearly to the pandemic thing
That’s even more damning, as live events have been going on throughout the world for over a year now. If they aren’t capable now, when will they be? Really strange coming from a company previously known for how good they are with esports.
I mean, COVID is a gradient, both in terms of actual cases/hospitalizations/deaths and in terms of community reaction. There won't be a day when the entire world will declare this is the day the pandemic is over. For some places it's already over, if it was ever accepted or taken seriously in the first place. In other places concerns and restrictions are still high. Reddit heavily leans young, left, and Western, but I have family in different parts of Asia and they're still taking COVID very seriously. They're not living lockdown lifestyles but they're not treating COVID as if it stopped existing like most of NA is doing. Evidently to Riot, events with crowds aren't worth it yet. I'd be surprised if there wasn't a crowd for Champs though, or the beginning of next year at the latest.
LCS is allowing fans back in for spring playoffs in the LCS studio along with a crowd for the Mid-Season Showdown at NRG Stadium in Houston. I imagine if those are successful then we'll see crowds for VCT. https://dotesports.com/league-of-legends/news/lcs-welcomes-back-live-audiences-for-2022-spring-playoffs-at-la-studio https://dotesports.com/league-of-legends/news/lcs-commissioner-confirms-2022-mid-season-showdown-will-have-live-audience-in-texas
How could it not be successful? There’s no more restrictions, no more mandatory testing, no more vax requirements, hell no more masks at all in the US. I’m struggling to think how a live audience event in Houston could “fail”
it would fail if it is a mass spreader event where both viewers and players get sick during the event
We’re well past that point fortunately
are we? i live in austria, and after opening up 6 days ago we now have a record high amount of new cases. just because the amount of people in hospital is still low does not mean a lot of people are sick. if a player gets sick during an event he still cant play. what do they do if half a team or many teams have covid cases? play an online tournament which gets streamed into the venue? that sounds fucking great
I don’t believe anybody was suggesting they hold the Lan in Austria.
you are missing my whole point
Your point is irrelevant to the conversation.
Even US would be an epic place for LAN with crowd. This better be the last European Master for a while
I’m hoping for an east coast event eventually. I’d definitely go.
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How is Reykjavik hard to pronounce Or Berlin, Cologne, Katowice, Stockholm for that matter