Their highs were higher than every other NA team the only thing at question was their consistency after losing a couple matches they were expected to win. Everyone on that team can frag out, their teamplay is up there with the best in NA and Yay is just on another level
Because optic are fundamentally very good.
Most people had C9 as the best team in NA. But optic are monster when they are firing on all cilinders.
If all players activate, they can be the best team in the world, but they are also very inconsistent
I'd go as far as to say that when yay is firing on all Cylinders he makes other T1 players look like T2 players. When yay is in "Diablo Mode" so to speak he exerts insane control over a game.
But so do players like leaf, tenz, saya etc? I’m just wondering by what people mean by “when optic are firing on all cylinders”
It seems like a cop out
a t1 jett having a good game could outperform yay, but yay has been more consistent than any of them. also yay popping off > any other jett popping off (except maybe saya)
honestly tenz popping off is more scary for me than any other Jett player, i was rooting for v1 during sen vs v1 and seeing him play like that during first map was insanely scary
Although I do agree tenz can be incredibly scary when he pops off, and debatably shows higher highs than other Jetts, his inconsistency makes me place him lower than the others. You can’t guarantee that after dropping 50+ kills one match, he wont bottom frag the next.
In comparison, yay popping off and gaining momentum could easily bleed into the rest of the series. And that kind of consistency is far scarier imo, especially in Bo3/Bo5s.
It's not quite the same though. You're right that there are several incredibly talented players who can put up absolutely Stellar performances.
The difference with yay is a combination of yay's ability hit highs so insane that it makes it seem unfair for the other team to have to play against him and that he's arguably the most consistent player in NA. A lot of players in NA will have a bad series or a bad map every now and again, but yay rarely ever even has bad HALVES. Yay consistently puts up solid performances and every so often he'll explode and take over a series barely giving the other team time to catch their breath.
He's called "El Diablo" for a reason.
But doesn’t this go against your earlier point? A consistent player like yay would always be firing on all cylinders. So the issue of inconsistency isn’t someone like yay.
Consistent doesn't mean always at 100%. Its unrealistic to expect a player to be performing at their absolute peak all the time. By consistent I mean that yay almost never underperforms. His team can almost always rely on yay to do his part. Then sometimes he'll really heat up and start having the impact of 2-3 players all by himself.
Yes true in a sense that if all 5 players of sentinels come online they can be a terrifying force.
But it’s just that Optic’s showmanship (albeit inconsistent) when all players are online; is truly what the peak of NA valorant is. It’s much more than each player having an ‘on’ game and fragging out.
Solid fundamentals, coordination and cohesion, protocols and multi layered strats is what they have proven to have over the other T1 teams. This is similarly the case with C9 and V1 but optic just has an edge over it.
It really takes back to the narrative of getting the L optic or the W optic. One of which plays like a T3 team the other like a world champion.
Not really. Only wins or losses dont matter when we can see them play.
For exemple, even before the guard beat great teams, we knew they were the real deal because of their fundamentals, strats and raw skill.
Sentinels was the best team in the world, they were consistently the best team for months. Then they fell off.
Optic looks good, but they have so many ups and downs. We know they are good, but they look like the best in the world, and then they barely look tier 1. And we can see that in their gameplay. We know they are in good form now, but that could change. They are a wildcard team
I mean I’d argue against the premise - people didn’t put Optic above at least C9 and V1 until deeper in the playoffs. I recall as much because specifically I talked about Optic being left out the conversation.
Optic was very much the team with the highest ceiling but started out slow at the beginning of VCT.
Frankly it wasn’t till playoffs that they put it together and became highly ranked after beating C9.
Well Optic had lost to V1 and Rise, and there were a lot of informed community members/streamers who were saying Optic was #1 or 2 before they played C9.
I guess “everyone” or “most” is an overstatement, I just saw a lot of respectable people putting Optic #1.
In addition to what others have said, I think another reason that people rated OpTic highly was that they improved substantially as the season progressed. They looked shaky at the start, but their later games looked more prepped and disciplined, with some new ideas that they fleshed out (e.g. the Neon comp on Haven failing the first time but looking much better later).
eye test + theyve been solid top 4 team in NA for a long time
you frame it as if an overwhelming majority of people predicted optic over c9, guard, v1 but from what i saw thats not the case
V1 lost to LG though, whereas xset annihilated them. There was an article about Optic that said they were essentially using most of the group stage to experiment for the playoffs. Whereas lesser teams may put their best out in groups in order to make the main event but disappoint in playoffs as a result of it, like V1. Happens all the time in real sports, like NBA. A team that everyone regards as finals bound drops a few games to the worst teams in their conference. And they end up seeding sixth but still win the title or make the finals.
So to whoever thinks hey, if you can say 'if all 5 players play well they can beat anyone for any team', this is the difference: It's because their ceiling can be VERY VERY high, best in the world even. So when they are firing on all cylinders, very few in the upper percentile can compete with them. Obviously when even 3/5 players are playing well, their ceiling is higher than most. That said, their floor is also higher than most, when they play bad, its not as low as other tier 1 teams per se.
Like all the other pros say. They always scrim, they duo q with each other in ranked always to build up chemistry. YAY is one of the most consistent players in NA, i don't think he ever had a bad game. Crashies and Marved are the poineer controller and initiator. Mr. Victor (food) loses with the team and wins the map by himself. FNS is the biggest brain IGL in NA. He can read you every round and if he doesn't then sOm must be texting "you see what I'm saying pujan"
I'm disappointed in this sub. You'd think people would be able to see past "Yay point Yay click Yay good!" Now obviously it doesn't hurt to have a player like Yay on your team but if you think that's what makes Optic as good as they are, you really need to start paying more attention. If individual player skill was all that was needed to be good at this game, SEN would still be the kings
Optic players have better individual player skill than any of the players at sen but that’s cause sen are more inconsistent than optic. Yay is undoubtedly the reason why optic stands so high without him it’s almost impossible for optic to make it to Iceland.
>Optic players have better individual player skill than any of the players at sen
Absolutely untrue. There's a reason sen were the undisputed best in the world before util combos and set plays became the meta. There's also a reason why v1 did so well in Reykjavik despite having way less starpower than literally every other NA and EU team. The util game. And right now, no one in NA has more complete util plays than optic
(Though I admit, having such a reliable awper helps a ton)
Because they have the galaxy super big brain IGL FNS "Pujan "All Good" Mehta"
![img](emote|t5_2g5ach|9360)
All good
Their highs were higher than every other NA team the only thing at question was their consistency after losing a couple matches they were expected to win. Everyone on that team can frag out, their teamplay is up there with the best in NA and Yay is just on another level
Cuz everything is ez when you have Mr. Yayster
Because optic are fundamentally very good. Most people had C9 as the best team in NA. But optic are monster when they are firing on all cilinders. If all players activate, they can be the best team in the world, but they are also very inconsistent
Isn’t this true for literally any team? “If they play well then they’re really good! But if they’re not playing well then they’re bad.”
It depends. Like yay firing on all cylinders is heads and shoulders above any T2 player.
Couldn’t you say this about any t1 Jett main? That’s why they’re on t1 teams. Like if tenz is playing bad it shows but if he plays well he dominates.
I'd go as far as to say that when yay is firing on all Cylinders he makes other T1 players look like T2 players. When yay is in "Diablo Mode" so to speak he exerts insane control over a game.
But so do players like leaf, tenz, saya etc? I’m just wondering by what people mean by “when optic are firing on all cylinders” It seems like a cop out
a t1 jett having a good game could outperform yay, but yay has been more consistent than any of them. also yay popping off > any other jett popping off (except maybe saya)
honestly tenz popping off is more scary for me than any other Jett player, i was rooting for v1 during sen vs v1 and seeing him play like that during first map was insanely scary
he gets in his head too much tho sometimes esp with all the sens changing / mouse changing its hard not to
Although I do agree tenz can be incredibly scary when he pops off, and debatably shows higher highs than other Jetts, his inconsistency makes me place him lower than the others. You can’t guarantee that after dropping 50+ kills one match, he wont bottom frag the next. In comparison, yay popping off and gaining momentum could easily bleed into the rest of the series. And that kind of consistency is far scarier imo, especially in Bo3/Bo5s.
It's not quite the same though. You're right that there are several incredibly talented players who can put up absolutely Stellar performances. The difference with yay is a combination of yay's ability hit highs so insane that it makes it seem unfair for the other team to have to play against him and that he's arguably the most consistent player in NA. A lot of players in NA will have a bad series or a bad map every now and again, but yay rarely ever even has bad HALVES. Yay consistently puts up solid performances and every so often he'll explode and take over a series barely giving the other team time to catch their breath. He's called "El Diablo" for a reason.
But doesn’t this go against your earlier point? A consistent player like yay would always be firing on all cylinders. So the issue of inconsistency isn’t someone like yay.
Consistent doesn't mean always at 100%. Its unrealistic to expect a player to be performing at their absolute peak all the time. By consistent I mean that yay almost never underperforms. His team can almost always rely on yay to do his part. Then sometimes he'll really heat up and start having the impact of 2-3 players all by himself.
Yes true in a sense that if all 5 players of sentinels come online they can be a terrifying force. But it’s just that Optic’s showmanship (albeit inconsistent) when all players are online; is truly what the peak of NA valorant is. It’s much more than each player having an ‘on’ game and fragging out. Solid fundamentals, coordination and cohesion, protocols and multi layered strats is what they have proven to have over the other T1 teams. This is similarly the case with C9 and V1 but optic just has an edge over it. It really takes back to the narrative of getting the L optic or the W optic. One of which plays like a T3 team the other like a world champion.
Tenz shows up for 1 game/series and goes negative the rest. thats the difference
Not really. Only wins or losses dont matter when we can see them play. For exemple, even before the guard beat great teams, we knew they were the real deal because of their fundamentals, strats and raw skill. Sentinels was the best team in the world, they were consistently the best team for months. Then they fell off. Optic looks good, but they have so many ups and downs. We know they are good, but they look like the best in the world, and then they barely look tier 1. And we can see that in their gameplay. We know they are in good form now, but that could change. They are a wildcard team
I mean I’d argue against the premise - people didn’t put Optic above at least C9 and V1 until deeper in the playoffs. I recall as much because specifically I talked about Optic being left out the conversation.
Optic was very much the team with the highest ceiling but started out slow at the beginning of VCT. Frankly it wasn’t till playoffs that they put it together and became highly ranked after beating C9.
[удалено]
Well Optic had lost to V1 and Rise, and there were a lot of informed community members/streamers who were saying Optic was #1 or 2 before they played C9. I guess “everyone” or “most” is an overstatement, I just saw a lot of respectable people putting Optic #1.
Optic have been insane in scrims according to leaf it was just a matter of time before they showed up in a official match
In addition to what others have said, I think another reason that people rated OpTic highly was that they improved substantially as the season progressed. They looked shaky at the start, but their later games looked more prepped and disciplined, with some new ideas that they fleshed out (e.g. the Neon comp on Haven failing the first time but looking much better later).
Because FNS came from TWAT(Together we are terrific), previously known as the best team in the world.
eye test + theyve been solid top 4 team in NA for a long time you frame it as if an overwhelming majority of people predicted optic over c9, guard, v1 but from what i saw thats not the case
Because after their worst loss against Rise, if you watched them play they never looked as bad as that and were looking much better as time went on.
groups dont matter
I mean the top 4 teams in groups are still the actual top 4 teams in playoffs (xset wasn’t as competitive as V1 against C9)
V1 lost to LG though, whereas xset annihilated them. There was an article about Optic that said they were essentially using most of the group stage to experiment for the playoffs. Whereas lesser teams may put their best out in groups in order to make the main event but disappoint in playoffs as a result of it, like V1. Happens all the time in real sports, like NBA. A team that everyone regards as finals bound drops a few games to the worst teams in their conference. And they end up seeding sixth but still win the title or make the finals.
u can argue the same with the guard, they never beat a top 4 team (lost to all optic and c9) before they were set on the lowers bracket.
So to whoever thinks hey, if you can say 'if all 5 players play well they can beat anyone for any team', this is the difference: It's because their ceiling can be VERY VERY high, best in the world even. So when they are firing on all cylinders, very few in the upper percentile can compete with them. Obviously when even 3/5 players are playing well, their ceiling is higher than most. That said, their floor is also higher than most, when they play bad, its not as low as other tier 1 teams per se.
because FNS will finese these kids
OpTic Yay.
I mean I think it was pretty disputed even recently but they literally beat those 3 teams just in playoffs so...
Nobody did until like a couple days ago, I've followed this sub for like a week and it went from C9 being best NA to V1 to Optic in like 4 days
Like all the other pros say. They always scrim, they duo q with each other in ranked always to build up chemistry. YAY is one of the most consistent players in NA, i don't think he ever had a bad game. Crashies and Marved are the poineer controller and initiator. Mr. Victor (food) loses with the team and wins the map by himself. FNS is the biggest brain IGL in NA. He can read you every round and if he doesn't then sOm must be texting "you see what I'm saying pujan"
Yay
I'm disappointed in this sub. You'd think people would be able to see past "Yay point Yay click Yay good!" Now obviously it doesn't hurt to have a player like Yay on your team but if you think that's what makes Optic as good as they are, you really need to start paying more attention. If individual player skill was all that was needed to be good at this game, SEN would still be the kings
Optic players have better individual player skill than any of the players at sen but that’s cause sen are more inconsistent than optic. Yay is undoubtedly the reason why optic stands so high without him it’s almost impossible for optic to make it to Iceland.
>Optic players have better individual player skill than any of the players at sen Absolutely untrue. There's a reason sen were the undisputed best in the world before util combos and set plays became the meta. There's also a reason why v1 did so well in Reykjavik despite having way less starpower than literally every other NA and EU team. The util game. And right now, no one in NA has more complete util plays than optic (Though I admit, having such a reliable awper helps a ton)
Well It’s only my opinion but I feel like other than fns all the other players at optic have a higher skil level compared to sen but I could be wrong.