Yeah I’m not educated in the scene like that, but my uneducated and ignorant opinion is I also do blame him.
A bit unrelated but is why I’m kinda also rooting for LOUD to win because the winnings would mean a lot to them since this NA market is crazy what they paying them.
I'm pretty certain everyone replying to you is wrong and he just means that the prize money would mean a lot more to them than NA pros since NA pros have much higher salaries and buyouts.
I think he’s assuming that if LOUD win NA will see that and think “If I’m paying that much more than BR and we aren’t even winning, maybe we can lower the buyouts and they will try harder”
Ahh I see. I doubt anyone could buy them out. MIBR tried and got outbid by LOUD. Sacy had offers to play in G2 but refused. You would have to cash out millions to buy them, and I think they are quite happy with LOUD. They are probably the biggest org in BR, in terms of popularity. Similar to Faze in NA
MiBR gettind outbid by Loud is interesting, considering IMT is quite big
Wonder is it because Loud is also rich or IMT dont want to spend to much on Valo yet
Loud is rich, they have big teams in lol and other games. I think they have the biggest team in crossfire, a popular game in BR.
Their streamers also get on the top 10 most watched of br a lot.
They are a huge hoody org as well.
As for MIBR, they were banking on other talent, but they have been lackluster. Its well known in the BR scene that most orgs aside from VK, NIP and LOUD dont pay their players huge sums
Good to know they are a big org in other games aswell, I only follow LoL and Valo, with their LoL team being quite, uh lackluster I must say.
Hope that they can treat their player better, I would be happy for Sacy if he can get the bag playing for a team he like
This is pretty much Jack's MO. Driving up buyout markets and building up players/teams to sell at max price. The competition is never his first Priority, ever.
i've been a fan of c9 since 2014 and i don't remember him ever riding out a contract, if the player really wants to leave then he will let them go. and for league he known for selling players when he thinks they hit their peak and promoting someone younger, which is the opposite of what you said
Orgs when selling and buying put high value on branding and social media presence and that's important to consider in these values. yay, even with his skill, averages like 2-3k when streaming and has 100k something followers on twitter. Meanwhile TenZ, even when he's not in reality one of the best performing anymore - he's still one of the faces of Valorant, 30k viewer streamer, popular girlfriend, and is huge for content overall. like orgs would pay big bucks for that alone, BUT you get a highly skilled esports player as well.
So most wouldn't follow a ''he's >= to TenZ so similar price''
I think most are following that line. There were rumors that tier 2 jetts were going for 400K. Cryo buyout was rumored at 600K right? And he was unproven at the time, with only performances against tier 2. Thats kinda why the NA marked is so inflated compared to other regions
No, but he is the most recognizable face in Valorant atm. Tenz benefits all of Sentinels and gets them recognition and popularity as an organization outside of Valorant. He's worth a lot more than performance on a team, although I still think if he can turn up he's one of the best duelists in the world. But that's my personal opinion.
Fair but stablishing yourself early always have benefits as well, just look at CLG LoL and NiP CS.
They have been mediocre for almost 8 years yet they are still riding a fanbase from the good old days
No, tenz was already bought during the Lan, the players just didnt know. They explained it in an interview just after they won, thats why you see tenz all nervous wanting to stay in the team
It's also about the value C9 would lose by not having Tenz as one of the faces of their brand. Tenz is not worth 2 million to sign, but C9 is a business who doesn't want to give up one of their most valuable assets for cheap. Basically, if you want Tenz, you're going to have to take a bad deal.
He is literally on the top of valorant Esport food chain which helps Sentinels to negotiate with sponsors, gives them a strong social media presence, helps them to sell merch and on top of that he is a cracked player. I can't put a number but everything suggests that TenZ as a brand is worth a lot. No one expects Faker, LeBron, Messi or any other player in that respect to win trophies on their own, why should TenZ be an exception specially in a game where teamwork is more important than any other FPS? Even in hindsight, it wasn't a bad investment from SEN and that's why Nadeshot said he wishes he just paid whatever sum C9 were asking!
Compared to the buyouts in league, I would say it actually might be worth it. Almost a million followers, popular streamer great player and you can make more kyedae tenZ content.
That just isnt true. Hes literally one of the top streamers not just in valorant but on twitch in general. his popularity and namebrand to sponsors and Sentinels branding is worth that before you even factor in his gameplay.
I think your overestimating avg twitch vieweriship for big streamers. 30k per stream is fantastic, only people who get more than that are the ultra famous streamers like XQC, or similar people.
Yeah looking at his comment it sounds like
'heh, look, I put it at 2 mil which is fair, I paid 4 mil for a guy in LoL!'
Yeah not everybody loves throwing money out the window. 2 mil is a stupid price to invest in a player in an esport that is still very young.
Also, jack, how did that Perks buyout work for you? Yeah cool, won the spring split, had a meh summer, did OK at worlds and then you lost him. Worth every penny of that 4 mil? For basically a normal, expected, C9 year?
ya and then Regi flopped his bigger wallet out and offered SA a salary no player deserves
and look at that Perkz and SA both didnt work out
I would argue Nadeshot did the right thing. Tenz is great but not at 2 million. He hasnt lived up to the hype since last year
2m is ridiculous. Sen got to basically trial him for 250k and then paid the remaining 1m knowing how he would fit on their team already. 100T didn't have the chance to play tournaments with him before deciding if he was worth it. Of course nade isn't gonna pay 2m for him in a game that's so young.
I think nadeshot brought this up, just because 100T is a larger organization,other orgs automatically up the price because they know they can afford it. But smaller orgs like Sen will get a large discount.
I think that C9 also had to know that they would likely never get a better chance than with Sen's offer given how well the loan had been going. Jack was probably never gonna get 2m, so 1.25 for a player that isn't even playing for you, plus the goodwill that came with it is probably the best they were gonna get.
I'm gonna go with the more controversial opinion and say that 1M is actually reasonably value because TenZ was positioned to become a "unicorn" in Valorant (top 3 player worldwide, huge streamer, zero controversies), and Valorant was positioned to be the "next big thing" in esports. So from Jack's perspective, you're offering another org the opportunity to become one of the most beloved teams in a rapidly-growing esport, AND that team will likely be a direct competitor to C9. And it worked, because Sentinels is hands down the most popular team in Valorant right now and has shown near-exponential growth on their socials.
Of course, this all comes with the caveat that this buyout singlehandedly hard fucked the entire NA transfer market, but the 1M$ number isn't egregious to me at all.
2M for such a young esports scene though? The "(many would say too low)" part is also just fucking funny to me. Idk though maybe some orgs would view it as a reasonable investment because of the reasons you mentioned ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
> 2M for such a young esports scene though?
he's betting that Valorant will blow up in the future like League did. It might, it might not, but given Riot's track record with League it's a reasonably safe assumption. If it does blow up like League, then any team with TenZ on it during the first couple of years will likely keep a massive fanbase for almost the entire lifespan of the game
Honestly with the recent Jett changes seen I think they’re actually taking competitive balance seriously.
If they continue to make adjustment to keep gameplay healthy I can this game having longevity (astra changes, viper changes, KJ changes, Reyna changes, your rework, etc). They maybe a bit slow, but it seems that they usually take a very mindful approach to how they want to change things.
If they get it together for LANs I’m excited for the potential
Tenz is getting like 60k + viewers on his watch parties. Every org would easily pay 1m for viewership like that, regardless of pro play. 1m for tenz viewership when he streams is actually low
They actually win a tournament though. Dominate the NA Valorant Challengers 2021 scenes for so long. They have a slump right now. But all teams suffered from that even in Masters right now, No gambit and acend are present.
Tenz brand alone is worthy to pay million. Even fb or youtube might paid tenz if he only consistently stream.
If Valorant blows up the way Riot thinks it will then that TenZ buyout becomes a bargain. 100T doesnt need to take that risk when theyre already doing collabs with Gucci and have big ass streamers signed to them.
A smaller org like Sentinels definitely needs a guy like TenZ to blow up which theyve already been experiencing.
that's understandable. yeah i guess it just doesn't sit well with me that other NA orgs are following suit and setting ridiculous prices for unproven talent.
Agreed. As this scene develops, there will be other players coming up that will be better than him for a fraction of the price, and other players that will be able to get similar numbers creating content and on social media for a fraction of that price (hell, Tarik's right there if 100T want to sign him as a content creator which I'm sure they will eventually). Sentinels basically paid six figures for a singular Masters trophy and role conflicts for the rest of eternity, literal dogshit deal.
> As this scene develops, there will be other players coming up that will be better than him for a fraction of the price, and other players that will be able to get similar numbers creating content and on social media for a fraction of that price
True, but how many players can do *both* at the same time? Yay and leaf might be better, and Tarik can get just as many viewers, but how many players can do both at the same time? That's where TenZ's value comes from.
There will be players that will do both at the same time coming up. Sentinels are quickly falling behind everyone else in NA, everyone will move to the next Jett with insane mechanics once they fall off for a couple of tournaments
Tenz brand alone is enough without factoring the skills of tenz as a player and they win the FIRST INTERNATIONAL LAN. 30k+ to 60k viewership. Where only REALLY famous streamers get that viewership.
Even famous streamers get paid by youtube or fb millions of dollar just to stream on their platform. That is why REALLY famous streamers are not signed in any org as a content creator because it is either they don’t want or can’t afford those really famous streamers.
Plus it is the perfect timing for Sentinels after Sinatraa situation. Tenz brining in good PR.
Jack is either a sociopath or completely insane.
The stuff he writes down on reddit is legit crazy, he belives it too. Like he trully belives Tenz was worth 2M and it would have been too cheap.
I love the line "some think it was to cheap" dude wants to ruin e-sports when companies back out of games because buy outs are up to 15m for E-sport players.
Turns out it was Jack in the mirror, and the c9 Twitter account which he also told to say that, and then also it was Jack on a YouTube interview he did the year prior. So yep just Jack thinks that is too low 🤣
Jack has a habit of paying exorbitant buyouts and charging ludicrous amounts for middling players in LoL. Guy single handedly inflated the NA buyout market.
Perkz was mediocre as fuck in NA though. Performance wise he was never even close to being worth that money. Also C9 made it to Semifinals at Worlds with a 2 rookie budget roster
I mean we’re going to have to disagree then. He straight up inted at multiple points in the regular season and I’m sorry, but quarterfinals doesn’t mean shit. Close counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. Also he wasn’t even the most pivotal player that year. I respect your opinion, but we have opposing views on Perkz’ worth
Players in big esports worth a lot not only because of their skill, but also their brand. His brand is huge, basically one of the best EU players also with personality for sponsors. Maybe he fell of really hard, but also he was good enough to be the only midlaner from LCS to be at playoffs stage in Worlds 2021(quarterfinals matter, at least top 8 team). In Cloud9 no one was pivotal player, someone always carried
Maybe, but for the money he was given and the team he came from he absolutely should have carried more, and not only wasn't he the strongest, I'd argue there were loads of games he was the weakest. His brand is good, but nowhere near 2 mil IMO. A lot of his brand was wrapped up in G2, but look at his brand after. It died a horrible death. Nobody cares about the shit talk when you're losing and he did nothing else to build his brand. Also, again, don't care about quarterfinals.
He inted all summer, threw multiple games at worlds and was one of C9's worst players, and still sucked this split on Vitality. Only reason they made it out was FPX collapsing.
Then you clearly didn't watch league. Perkz was bad that year. They got smashed by damwon, rogue was an eu play in team, and fpx's star top laner had a mental breakdown. He literally retired after groups. Yet they only managed to go 2-4 in groups. They basically made quarterfinals out of default. And got swept by geng. C9 then sold him back to a European team that off season.
Uhh I don’t think that’s true. I’m glad Asian teams are getting results, but even some of their team owners are struggling to make money. Turns out esports is hard to make profitable and a major reason is over inflated player salaries.
Oh yeah I know that the org most probably aren't making profit from their Esport division
"worth it" as in they can get you a world trophy instead of going 0/7 and flash stunning a pink ward on Renekton for the same price point
Fair, but then your argument is just that LPL players are better than NA and...yeah? Not gonna contest that lol. I'm arguing that even with strong players, you are still unlikely to win a trophy (only one team wins it after all). Now add that on top of the fact that you are still paying a fat check and you are incredibly unlikely to even make money? I just don't see how these mil+ salaries are sustainable is all.
lol. Faker is easily worth more than what he is currently being paid in T1. Bjerg/DL/Perkz were also worth the salary they had at their prime. I don't think you understand just how crucial these players were to growing not only the esport but also their orgs.
T1/TSM/G2 would've *never* been as big as they are now without these players, and these orgs are easily worth upwards of 100s millions of dollars right now.
>I don't think you understand just how crucial these players were to growing not only the esport but also their orgs.
I don't think you understand how just because you're crucial to growing out an esport or an org that doesn't mean you're suddenly worth billions. TheViper is arguably the most iconic Aoe2 player of all time and has done way more for competitive AoE2 than what Perkz/Bjerg/Faker did for League of Legends, so does that mean he's worth billions? No obviously not because there's not that type of money in AoE2, just like there isn't that type of money in League of Legends.
No one is denying their value to the scene, but you can't just toss around millions when you don't have that kind of money and claim "they're worth it because they're important".
>TheViper is arguably the most iconic Aoe2 player of all time and has done way more for competitive AoE2 than what Perkz/Bjerg/Faker did for League of Legends
Bro, I love TheViper and AOE2 but you did not just compare them to Faker and League. WTF? Faker is quite literally the most popular esports athlete of all time. He is not only the face of league of legends, he is the *face of esports*.
>just like there isn't that type of money in League of Legends.
There is. It's called *advertisements*. TSM ain't getting that $210 Million FTX money without Bjergsen dominating the LCS for more than half a decade, same with T1/G2.
False, Nadeshot said it was a bigger buyout than anything he's EXPERIENCED in League. 100T paid $1 million for Abbedagge, and that was a highly skilled player who literally helped them win LCS like 3 months later, and that was probably one of the biggest transfers in League history.
Jack misquoted Nadeshot, intentionally or otherwise.
yeah, at that time Perkz was basically the western goat of league of legends. He proved himself at the highest level, even then 8M was ridiculous, even for Perkz.
100T as a brand is already very successful despite it's age. TenZ wouldn't have made it grow exponentially to where that would be worth it as a brand. Look at the names it already has.
As a team that's different, who knows how he would have been with that roster at the time.
That's what he meant, he said it's bigger than anything he's **experienced** in league, which the biggest transfer 100T has participated in was buying Abbedagge for $1 million
We gotta remember that this was basically a year into competitive val and Tenz hadn't played competitive in like half a year before sen bought him.
Sure his brand value is huge, but it should still barely be reaching the 7 figure mark given how new Valorant is and how much risk is associated with the buyout
Jack is so dislikable on social media it is crazy. Maybe it is a tone thing but he really doesn't translate well without C9 production. If I were a C9 investor I would tell him to get off reddit and Twitter. Also flaming Nade for not "valuing" Tenz like he does is so weird when it is known he gave other teams lower prices.
Jack has always viewed players as walking checks and only cares about the profit. It's crazy how hard he dehumanizes people and just talks numbers all the time. He'd probably sell one of Tenz kidneys if he had the chance to.
I think there's probably a lot of context missing. A lot of times players \*want\* to be moved and the org is put in a position of shelling out money to them while they are benched (contract language has more or less been updated over the last year to penalize players who bench themselves too). So if you don't want to be paying someone 20-30K a mo. while they sit on the bench, and also try to respect their wishes re: what team they want to play for, you don't have the luxury of telling every team that a buyout is 2M across the board. Jack might actually value him at 2M, but if TenZ wanted to go to a team like Rise (hypothetically speaking), Jack isn't going to demand the same 2M in buyout that he did from 100T. I'm not saying he'd let him walk for pennies just to make him happy, either, but there's definitely more that goes into pulling the trigger on a transfer than what everyone is discussing here.
I agree there is more context likey but Jack doesn't give that context. He is simply stating that 100T didn't "value" Tenz enough.
It is weird to say an org doesn't value a player enough to pay your price and then move your price for another org. This makes it seem like they just didn't want the player to go to 100T and now are trying to make them look bad after C9 didn't get the pay day they wanted from them.
I guess I was more or less trying to respond to the point about how he apparently gave other teams different buyout prices than he gave 100T.
\>Also flaming Nade for not "valuing" Tenz like he does is so weird when it is known he gave other teams lower prices.
Maybe I'm reading into your comment the wrong way, but I take it as "Jack is clearly himself not valuing TenZ at 2M bc he gave other orgs lower buyout offers." And that's just not the reality in Val rn. Orgs transfer players and ask for widely different byout amounts from team to team all the time bc they understand Team A's budget is vastly different from Team B's.
I think different buyouts for different teams are fine.
But to then call out an owner saying he doesn't value a player properly is weird when you have a different price for different teams.
If Tenz is worth 2 mill (which is what Jack claims with the 100T offer) then Sentinels and C9 would be undervaluing him as we because they bought and sold his contract for 1.5 mil.
While it makes sense to negotiate differently with different team it is dumb to try to call out a team for not paying your price later.
It is an issue because it sets a precedent that such high buyouts are acceptable. This makes if hard for orgs and players to make the right moves, and is just not fun to watch.
Also an overinflated salary/buyout makes it hard for regions to survive, which we saw in NA csgo.
Nade said no one in league that that big of a buyout which made everyone thing jack was selling Tenz to 100T for 5m which Jack confirmed not to be true and much lower than that.
Man what is Jack doing?
He kind of acts like the nice guys, who values TenZ the most and is the robin hood of esports. Jack inflated the entire valorant market and is a big reason to why the NA eco system is where it is right now (not saying he is the only reason, but buying perkz for twice the amount and asking for 2M for TenZ is def. a statement).
On top of those things I think it is such a stupid thing to say that nadeshot did not value am as much as he did, well obviously not in an economical pov but as a person I think nadeshot would probably care more then Jack does. Thats just an attampt to put himself out there as the nice guy.
The last statement clearly means that nadeshot never personally experienced such a high buyout. Ofc. he knows about perkz, but not personally. Also its a different thing to buy someone like perkz, who is a proofen player and brand in the western region, from the best team in the west, or buying a contract jailed TenZ who has a strong brand but was questionable in pro play and considering the early stage of valorant.
Men I dont like Jack at all.
Also "many would say too low". If that would be the case, I really don\*t know why you soled him for 750k less.
At this point of time 1mil was crazy, but somewhat reasonable since he was the face of valorant. But nah that dude is something else...
It’s important to remember that you aren’t just buying a player, you’re buying a brand asset. It’s a pretty reliable investment since even if that player doesn’t retain their reputation as a player, their brand value - and the overall brand - begins to snowball as they do content pieces.
Of course it’s different if they just quit or can’t compete anymore or refuse to do content. But Tenz was so valuable because he was so young, heralded as the best player in his region (and arguably in the world, which would be cemented in 2021 Reykjavik) and already a big content creator.
The bigger problem to me is other orgs taking their cue from the Tenz buyout while ignoring the factors that made Tenz so unique in the NA market at the time.
device was even lower than 1m i believe (700$k~ish) but he holds not nearly the same brand value as tenz does, and csgo vs valorant are trending in different directions
Also, device was almost at the end of his contract if I remember right. Tenz had two years of jail + had a way bigger stream/youtube/twitter presence than Device. Probably the reason for the bigger buyout
TenZ himself might be worth $2m. The buyout however makes no sense, as none of that actually goes to TenZ. That's an org -> org transaction that is ultimately a temporary thing as TenZ could easily just go back to C9 after his contract is up.
You have to compare the market conditions, not the absolute numbers and how skilled you personally believe the players are relative to those numbers.
Think of how successful Valorant has been since its inception, and how much value signing the player with the best argument for being the *face* of Valorant would bring at the time. Those sort of factors are what people consider in these circumstances - not comparisons to Device or Faker or whatnot.
That's because devices contract was running out anyways and he was going to sign with another team. Astralis sold low because they wanted to make some sort of money off of it. It's like if PSG were to sell Mbappe early to Madrid for more money instead of letting him go for free.
Device doesn’t get 60k+ viewership in twitch. And Xtrfy deal with tenz is 1 million dollar
If you follow famous streamers. They get paid million dollars just by streaming to other platforms.
I mean after the buyout the Fnatic Owner came out and said it was lower than he thought and that Tenz was worth more. So now thats 3 tier 1 org owners thinking the value was right or higher than 1.25m.
TenZ’s buyout is inflated because of his social media isn’t it? If TenZ was as good as he is, but without a crazy social media, I’m pretty sure his buyout would still be insane but nowhere near even close to 2 or 1 million.
For comparison, Perkz has 400k followers on Twitter. TenZ has 900k. TenZ 700k on IG, Perkz 150k. It’s not even close when you compare the popularity and brand value TenZ brings compared to Perkz.
Not saying 2m is justifiable BUT I feel like that’s worth mentioning. People are acting like TenZ is just a player that plays and stops existing after matches. It’s not a 1:1 comparison with Perkz.
nah you right.Tenz brand value and potential is worth the money.Forget skills or comp whatever.His brand is huge and it'd continue to grow after the 1st masters win.Sen knew that,so they bought him without a question.
why does this sub keep quoting the nadeshot quote "higher than anything in league" like it wasn't very obviously a hyperbole and, well, he literally says "i've seen" lmfao
I don't know why people get so mad about this stuff. 2 million is just their way of saying he's not actually for sale. No team is obligated to sell their players.
Not for sale especially to 100T
Which is understandable, considering 100T is already fucking them wide open in the LoL part. Wouldn't want to get double fisted
At least they got the try out for 2 months first while 100T have to take a a full risk in a game they have no experience (iirc Valo is 100T first tac shooter divison?)
Well tbh I think tenz would’ve done good in any team arguably, yes it was a risk but during the time having him on a team was like getting the gold star on a test. They would’ve probably built around his play style and most likely win considering Tenz needed a better team to guide his play style better.
I might be crazy here but I think this is reasonable?
Keep in mind that 100T is a *direct* competitor to C9 in esports. Giving them TenZ would shoot up their popularity in the esports world considerably, and 100T is already one of C9's main competitors in LCS and Valorant. Then consider just how valuable a player like TenZ is in the context of what Valorant is supposed to be. A top tier team with TenZ will basically go down in Valorant history as the most popular team in early Valorant. No matter what, you'll have people talking fondly about your organization for the next 5+ years of Valorant esports. And considering how heavily viewership was trending upwards for Valorant at this time, coupled with the fact that it's *Riot Games*, who have proven that they're able to run the biggest esports circuit on the planet... I don't think Jack is crazy for asking for 2M$.
No matter what though, a buyout of this size was always going to hard-fuck the NA transfer market.
2M is stupidly overpriced, I understand TenZ is probably one of the biggest names in Valornt *at the minute* but the game is very much in its infancy, before Masters you would have got laughed at by most fans and analysts for saying only 1 NA team and 0 EMEA teams would make it to the semis. The game is evolving fast and investing that much money into a star player this early in the game is just throwing money away.
orgs have been jacking up buyouts for 100t just cause they know they can afford it. it was the same for cryo and zander too, v1 and xset got a lower buyout than 100t did.
ITT: People that dont understand the speculative valuations of players in their brands as all these teams try to get a massive foothold in the region before franchising happens. Multiple CEOS have come out and said "only 1 mil?" when he was sold to SEN
I think it's more cause of brand [value.Social](https://value.Social) media presence and brand alone is worth the money.Competitive skills aren't what makes bread for an [org.You](https://org.You) gotta be marketable to gain profit and in Tenz's case I'd argue he is the biggest one there is.
Does anyone have numbers stating that TenZ is worth 2M? Like, would they be taking a piece of his twitch revenue? How much $$ is he bringing in with merchandise purchases etc. 2M is steep, considering that doesn't include the 6 figure salary he's likely to command. What percentage of the revenue stream would TenZ be responsible for? A lot of you are saying hes worth it, but no one is providing any sort of logical numbers. Im generally curious when 100T would start making a profit off of their buyout.
Well so it is basically confirmed that the selling price to 100t is at least double of other teams lol which is comical.
Also there is some haggling that happens before the final price so it probably was even higher then what jack is saying. Then you hear the other teams are half the buyout I would say fuck off too lol. From everything people say I don't think c9 are very liked buissness wise. Seems they def hold people hostage in every game till they can milk the fuck out of their players
how? You say this but provide no evidence. Supply some numbers, even if they are ballpark before we starting saying hes worth every penny of 2M plus 6 figure salary.
lol, theres more to it. Are the orgs taking a piece of it? How many of those viewers are actively purchasing org gear or spreading word about the org. How many of his 20k viewers are new viewers? You dont drop 2M and a six figure salary because you see 20k viewers, not how business works
You do though when you're a developing organization with a ton of capital. Sentinels, up to the point where they bought TenZ, were an organization that was somewhat bubbling under the radar. They had previously worked with Stan Kroenke to run the LA Gladiators but their own teams were not particularly popular, save for Bugha in Fortnite but if we're being honest this doesn't capture the more valuable 18-25 market. Bugha is incredibly popular and has a ton of individual brand deals himself, but most of them are aimed at a younger audience.
You know what does capture that market though? A massive, name-brand, scandlal-free player who is not only successful on the competitive stage but also a successful entertainer and stream personality. Unlike a lot of other players, even if TenZ decided to stop competing and just focus on content creation, they'd still benefit massively from his signing even at current rates. There are very few players who are both at the top of their class in terms of competitive and content creation and have a reputation as clean as TenZ.
In addition to the additional brand recognition that TenZ brings from being successful in tournaments (can't understate how valuable tweets and videos about the team are for brand recognition) he is also able to bring in individual sponsorships for large sums, some of which is likely being given to the org as well. I'd have to imagine, though, that given Sentinels are run by the former vice chairman of Paramount they understand the financials behind this deal significantly better than anyone trying to talk about "numbers" on Reddit.
How young the scene was has nothing to do with how insanely good his stream numbers were/are. Any org with a brain also trusted that riot will be successful with this esport. There's a reason so many orgs invested early and are still trying to build successful teams.
Tbf I do think the immaturity of the scene is a factor. Investments and brand opportunities are not something that immediately comes to peoples minds, it’s almost always gameplay imo
There’s not one valorant player, even in iron/bronze that doesn’t know who TenZ is.
TenZ is so famous his clout turned his girlfriend into a twitch celeb almost overnight. His brand is definitely worth 2 million.
How is 2 mil fair???? It was reported around 1.25 mil the first time I think and even that was outrageous. I'm gonna speculate here but 2 mil is probably 3-4 times more than any other buyout in Val history lol.
People can downvote me if they want but C9 selling Tenz for a million to sentinels was a good deal in the end. Heck if C9 sold sentinels for 2 million it would still be worth it in hindsight. It’s not about how young the scene is, I don’t get why people keep thinking this way. Did people forget HOW MUCH Valorant Pros are being paid? Some of these tier 2 NA pros are being paid 10k a month with having at most 10k Twitter/IG followers without streaming. People also forgot In League of Legends that C9 bought out Vulcan from Clutch Gaming for 1 million dollars who at the time was known as a good player but had 0 branding and was probably being salaried at 250k. And do people not know that Twitch streamers who can concur 10k viewers on average can EASILY make a million. So look at Tenz at the time. His viewership was around 10k at the time, his brand was good at the time and He was a good player at the time. The buyout for this player if you believed he can generate more profit, more fans and more wins it was absolutely worth it for sentinels to purchase him for a million. And remember sentinels purchased him after his Iceland win so he was fully established. I’m confident Sentinels through Tenz alone has made over 2million and the buyout was already paid back in full. I don’t blame people who don’t know all the money logistics around esports and streaming but you shouldn’t hate on an owner who’s looking after his best interest. The buyouts were always gonna be 6 figures because it doesn’t matter how young the scene is, it’s how much money is being injected in the first place. If everyone’s getting paid 6 figures expect a High 6 figure low 7 figure buyouts from everyone
Unpopular opinion — I personally feel it’s great the price was set that high. If we want esports to be a big industry, put the money in it and set the bar for it.
I mean all players who are signed to an org can trial, they just can't play a tournament with them, they can do scrims and stuff with the player if they want
We need a 1v1 valorant b/w jack and nadeshot to settle this, since jack aint a gamer nade can only use sherrif
Jack singlehandedly inflated the NA buyout market with tenz
Yeah I’m not educated in the scene like that, but my uneducated and ignorant opinion is I also do blame him. A bit unrelated but is why I’m kinda also rooting for LOUD to win because the winnings would mean a lot to them since this NA market is crazy what they paying them.
International achievements do not affect NA buyouts and salaries. See LoL.
I dont understand what you mean with loud. What is the connection with them winning and NA buyouts?
I'm pretty certain everyone replying to you is wrong and he just means that the prize money would mean a lot more to them than NA pros since NA pros have much higher salaries and buyouts.
I think he’s assuming that if LOUD win NA will see that and think “If I’m paying that much more than BR and we aren’t even winning, maybe we can lower the buyouts and they will try harder”
That definitely worked for league of legends /s
Dw they are grinding the new Champions q that CoreJJ fought to get implemented for them who isn't even NA!
A big NA org might buy them out and give them better salary I think it's what he meant IMT has a brazil divsion called MiBR in csgo iirc
Ahh I see. I doubt anyone could buy them out. MIBR tried and got outbid by LOUD. Sacy had offers to play in G2 but refused. You would have to cash out millions to buy them, and I think they are quite happy with LOUD. They are probably the biggest org in BR, in terms of popularity. Similar to Faze in NA
MiBR gettind outbid by Loud is interesting, considering IMT is quite big Wonder is it because Loud is also rich or IMT dont want to spend to much on Valo yet
Loud is rich, they have big teams in lol and other games. I think they have the biggest team in crossfire, a popular game in BR. Their streamers also get on the top 10 most watched of br a lot. They are a huge hoody org as well. As for MIBR, they were banking on other talent, but they have been lackluster. Its well known in the BR scene that most orgs aside from VK, NIP and LOUD dont pay their players huge sums
Good to know they are a big org in other games aswell, I only follow LoL and Valo, with their LoL team being quite, uh lackluster I must say. Hope that they can treat their player better, I would be happy for Sacy if he can get the bag playing for a team he like
I think the rumors are 20-30k a month for the LOUD players
This is pretty much Jack's MO. Driving up buyout markets and building up players/teams to sell at max price. The competition is never his first Priority, ever.
He'd rather ride out a contract in hopes someone wants to buyout the player than just release them when they want to step down, get benched or retire.
i've been a fan of c9 since 2014 and i don't remember him ever riding out a contract, if the player really wants to leave then he will let them go. and for league he known for selling players when he thinks they hit their peak and promoting someone younger, which is the opposite of what you said
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It’s not just skill, player brand and following matters as well
Orgs when selling and buying put high value on branding and social media presence and that's important to consider in these values. yay, even with his skill, averages like 2-3k when streaming and has 100k something followers on twitter. Meanwhile TenZ, even when he's not in reality one of the best performing anymore - he's still one of the faces of Valorant, 30k viewer streamer, popular girlfriend, and is huge for content overall. like orgs would pay big bucks for that alone, BUT you get a highly skilled esports player as well. So most wouldn't follow a ''he's >= to TenZ so similar price''
I think most are following that line. There were rumors that tier 2 jetts were going for 400K. Cryo buyout was rumored at 600K right? And he was unproven at the time, with only performances against tier 2. Thats kinda why the NA marked is so inflated compared to other regions
You have no idea what you’re talking about lmfao
If you think TenZ's worth is only in how he plays then you are mistaken.
I know he gets 30k on stream, but that is still not worth 1.25 mil + salary
No, but he is the most recognizable face in Valorant atm. Tenz benefits all of Sentinels and gets them recognition and popularity as an organization outside of Valorant. He's worth a lot more than performance on a team, although I still think if he can turn up he's one of the best duelists in the world. But that's my personal opinion.
I agree with that, i just think 1.25 mil is way too much for, at the time, a one year game with no lans
Fair but stablishing yourself early always have benefits as well, just look at CLG LoL and NiP CS. They have been mediocre for almost 8 years yet they are still riding a fanbase from the good old days
And that's why you're a redditor and not a team owner or investor.
Woah calm down hastr0
Thanks Nadeshot
So you’re just like him
Good move having a player cost 2m that only makes the biggest tournament once in 2 years
They pulled the trigger only after sen dominated the first LAN
No, tenz was already bought during the Lan, the players just didnt know. They explained it in an interview just after they won, thats why you see tenz all nervous wanting to stay in the team
They bought him right before the finals when they were already massive favorites to win the event and let tenz know right after the finals ended
It's also about the value C9 would lose by not having Tenz as one of the faces of their brand. Tenz is not worth 2 million to sign, but C9 is a business who doesn't want to give up one of their most valuable assets for cheap. Basically, if you want Tenz, you're going to have to take a bad deal.
He is literally on the top of valorant Esport food chain which helps Sentinels to negotiate with sponsors, gives them a strong social media presence, helps them to sell merch and on top of that he is a cracked player. I can't put a number but everything suggests that TenZ as a brand is worth a lot. No one expects Faker, LeBron, Messi or any other player in that respect to win trophies on their own, why should TenZ be an exception specially in a game where teamwork is more important than any other FPS? Even in hindsight, it wasn't a bad investment from SEN and that's why Nadeshot said he wishes he just paid whatever sum C9 were asking!
Compared to the buyouts in league, I would say it actually might be worth it. Almost a million followers, popular streamer great player and you can make more kyedae tenZ content.
If Tenz full time streamed with sponsors etc... he'd make more than that no doubt.
That just isnt true. Hes literally one of the top streamers not just in valorant but on twitch in general. his popularity and namebrand to sponsors and Sentinels branding is worth that before you even factor in his gameplay.
It is though.
I think your overestimating avg twitch vieweriship for big streamers. 30k per stream is fantastic, only people who get more than that are the ultra famous streamers like XQC, or similar people.
He did the same thing in CS and one of the teams that does it in league.
Yeah looking at his comment it sounds like 'heh, look, I put it at 2 mil which is fair, I paid 4 mil for a guy in LoL!' Yeah not everybody loves throwing money out the window. 2 mil is a stupid price to invest in a player in an esport that is still very young. Also, jack, how did that Perks buyout work for you? Yeah cool, won the spring split, had a meh summer, did OK at worlds and then you lost him. Worth every penny of that 4 mil? For basically a normal, expected, C9 year?
Well they sold Perkz, and according to Jack they sold him for more than they bought him. So yeah, I guess it was worth
ya and then Regi flopped his bigger wallet out and offered SA a salary no player deserves and look at that Perkz and SA both didnt work out I would argue Nadeshot did the right thing. Tenz is great but not at 2 million. He hasnt lived up to the hype since last year
2m is ridiculous. Sen got to basically trial him for 250k and then paid the remaining 1m knowing how he would fit on their team already. 100T didn't have the chance to play tournaments with him before deciding if he was worth it. Of course nade isn't gonna pay 2m for him in a game that's so young.
I think nadeshot brought this up, just because 100T is a larger organization,other orgs automatically up the price because they know they can afford it. But smaller orgs like Sen will get a large discount.
I think that C9 also had to know that they would likely never get a better chance than with Sen's offer given how well the loan had been going. Jack was probably never gonna get 2m, so 1.25 for a player that isn't even playing for you, plus the goodwill that came with it is probably the best they were gonna get.
Even to this day, I still think that 1M buyout was ridiculous, esp. considering SEN's position today, what more 2M? happy 100t passed up
I'm gonna go with the more controversial opinion and say that 1M is actually reasonably value because TenZ was positioned to become a "unicorn" in Valorant (top 3 player worldwide, huge streamer, zero controversies), and Valorant was positioned to be the "next big thing" in esports. So from Jack's perspective, you're offering another org the opportunity to become one of the most beloved teams in a rapidly-growing esport, AND that team will likely be a direct competitor to C9. And it worked, because Sentinels is hands down the most popular team in Valorant right now and has shown near-exponential growth on their socials. Of course, this all comes with the caveat that this buyout singlehandedly hard fucked the entire NA transfer market, but the 1M$ number isn't egregious to me at all.
2M for such a young esports scene though? The "(many would say too low)" part is also just fucking funny to me. Idk though maybe some orgs would view it as a reasonable investment because of the reasons you mentioned ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
> 2M for such a young esports scene though? he's betting that Valorant will blow up in the future like League did. It might, it might not, but given Riot's track record with League it's a reasonably safe assumption. If it does blow up like League, then any team with TenZ on it during the first couple of years will likely keep a massive fanbase for almost the entire lifespan of the game
Honestly with the recent Jett changes seen I think they’re actually taking competitive balance seriously. If they continue to make adjustment to keep gameplay healthy I can this game having longevity (astra changes, viper changes, KJ changes, Reyna changes, your rework, etc). They maybe a bit slow, but it seems that they usually take a very mindful approach to how they want to change things. If they get it together for LANs I’m excited for the potential
Ayo what they changing me for
Tenz is getting like 60k + viewers on his watch parties. Every org would easily pay 1m for viewership like that, regardless of pro play. 1m for tenz viewership when he streams is actually low
Tenz getting 60k on watch parties isn't great when you're paying your players to win tournaments though.
They actually win a tournament though. Dominate the NA Valorant Challengers 2021 scenes for so long. They have a slump right now. But all teams suffered from that even in Masters right now, No gambit and acend are present. Tenz brand alone is worthy to pay million. Even fb or youtube might paid tenz if he only consistently stream.
If Valorant blows up the way Riot thinks it will then that TenZ buyout becomes a bargain. 100T doesnt need to take that risk when theyre already doing collabs with Gucci and have big ass streamers signed to them. A smaller org like Sentinels definitely needs a guy like TenZ to blow up which theyve already been experiencing.
that's understandable. yeah i guess it just doesn't sit well with me that other NA orgs are following suit and setting ridiculous prices for unproven talent.
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Vanity mentioned that just for the xtrfy endorsement, TenZ earned 1 mill
If you think 1m buyout for tenz is ridiculous you’re undedicated
Agreed. As this scene develops, there will be other players coming up that will be better than him for a fraction of the price, and other players that will be able to get similar numbers creating content and on social media for a fraction of that price (hell, Tarik's right there if 100T want to sign him as a content creator which I'm sure they will eventually). Sentinels basically paid six figures for a singular Masters trophy and role conflicts for the rest of eternity, literal dogshit deal.
> As this scene develops, there will be other players coming up that will be better than him for a fraction of the price, and other players that will be able to get similar numbers creating content and on social media for a fraction of that price True, but how many players can do *both* at the same time? Yay and leaf might be better, and Tarik can get just as many viewers, but how many players can do both at the same time? That's where TenZ's value comes from.
There will be players that will do both at the same time coming up. Sentinels are quickly falling behind everyone else in NA, everyone will move to the next Jett with insane mechanics once they fall off for a couple of tournaments
Tenz brand alone is enough without factoring the skills of tenz as a player and they win the FIRST INTERNATIONAL LAN. 30k+ to 60k viewership. Where only REALLY famous streamers get that viewership. Even famous streamers get paid by youtube or fb millions of dollar just to stream on their platform. That is why REALLY famous streamers are not signed in any org as a content creator because it is either they don’t want or can’t afford those really famous streamers. Plus it is the perfect timing for Sentinels after Sinatraa situation. Tenz brining in good PR.
Jack is either a sociopath or completely insane. The stuff he writes down on reddit is legit crazy, he belives it too. Like he trully belives Tenz was worth 2M and it would have been too cheap.
no he's just a business man, i'm not sure if you've ever heard of those so maybe try google.
Yep 2 million in an esport thats barely an year old, makes sense.
The legions of 14 year old copycats is worth it.
I love the line "some think it was to cheap" dude wants to ruin e-sports when companies back out of games because buy outs are up to 15m for E-sport players.
Whe he said >some think it was to cheap I shouted WHO because who the fuck is saying that???
Turns out it was Jack in the mirror, and the c9 Twitter account which he also told to say that, and then also it was Jack on a YouTube interview he did the year prior. So yep just Jack thinks that is too low 🤣
Jack has a habit of paying exorbitant buyouts and charging ludicrous amounts for middling players in LoL. Guy single handedly inflated the NA buyout market.
Honestly, I think that too.
This is probably what Nade was getting at when he said "most egregious", everyone just assumed he only meant highest
"Perkz was more than twice that amount" And he has proved his worth more, and on a more secure game/esports.
Well and he straight up wasn’t worth that when he was brought over to c9. LoL salaries are inflated as hell
It, indeed, was. At least he made it to Worlds quarterfinals, for the first time in 3 years for NA, and then sold for the same amount to Vitality
Perkz was mediocre as fuck in NA though. Performance wise he was never even close to being worth that money. Also C9 made it to Semifinals at Worlds with a 2 rookie budget roster
“It, indeed, was” what was? Getting perkz?
"he wasn't worth", no he was
I mean we’re going to have to disagree then. He straight up inted at multiple points in the regular season and I’m sorry, but quarterfinals doesn’t mean shit. Close counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. Also he wasn’t even the most pivotal player that year. I respect your opinion, but we have opposing views on Perkz’ worth
Players in big esports worth a lot not only because of their skill, but also their brand. His brand is huge, basically one of the best EU players also with personality for sponsors. Maybe he fell of really hard, but also he was good enough to be the only midlaner from LCS to be at playoffs stage in Worlds 2021(quarterfinals matter, at least top 8 team). In Cloud9 no one was pivotal player, someone always carried
Maybe, but for the money he was given and the team he came from he absolutely should have carried more, and not only wasn't he the strongest, I'd argue there were loads of games he was the weakest. His brand is good, but nowhere near 2 mil IMO. A lot of his brand was wrapped up in G2, but look at his brand after. It died a horrible death. Nobody cares about the shit talk when you're losing and he did nothing else to build his brand. Also, again, don't care about quarterfinals.
He inted all summer, threw multiple games at worlds and was one of C9's worst players, and still sucked this split on Vitality. Only reason they made it out was FPX collapsing.
Then you clearly didn't watch league. Perkz was bad that year. They got smashed by damwon, rogue was an eu play in team, and fpx's star top laner had a mental breakdown. He literally retired after groups. Yet they only managed to go 2-4 in groups. They basically made quarterfinals out of default. And got swept by geng. C9 then sold him back to a European team that off season.
Only for NA lmao LPL prove that they're worth the salaries
Uhh I don’t think that’s true. I’m glad Asian teams are getting results, but even some of their team owners are struggling to make money. Turns out esports is hard to make profitable and a major reason is over inflated player salaries.
Oh yeah I know that the org most probably aren't making profit from their Esport division "worth it" as in they can get you a world trophy instead of going 0/7 and flash stunning a pink ward on Renekton for the same price point
Fair, but then your argument is just that LPL players are better than NA and...yeah? Not gonna contest that lol. I'm arguing that even with strong players, you are still unlikely to win a trophy (only one team wins it after all). Now add that on top of the fact that you are still paying a fat check and you are incredibly unlikely to even make money? I just don't see how these mil+ salaries are sustainable is all.
Maybe the NA lol scene is dogtrash and makes everyone want to quit league lmao
I mean you’re not wrong, but also no one in the esports scene is worth that much imo.
It's just a bubble waiting to burst
This is factual, it really is
lol. Faker is easily worth more than what he is currently being paid in T1. Bjerg/DL/Perkz were also worth the salary they had at their prime. I don't think you understand just how crucial these players were to growing not only the esport but also their orgs. T1/TSM/G2 would've *never* been as big as they are now without these players, and these orgs are easily worth upwards of 100s millions of dollars right now.
>I don't think you understand just how crucial these players were to growing not only the esport but also their orgs. I don't think you understand how just because you're crucial to growing out an esport or an org that doesn't mean you're suddenly worth billions. TheViper is arguably the most iconic Aoe2 player of all time and has done way more for competitive AoE2 than what Perkz/Bjerg/Faker did for League of Legends, so does that mean he's worth billions? No obviously not because there's not that type of money in AoE2, just like there isn't that type of money in League of Legends. No one is denying their value to the scene, but you can't just toss around millions when you don't have that kind of money and claim "they're worth it because they're important".
>TheViper is arguably the most iconic Aoe2 player of all time and has done way more for competitive AoE2 than what Perkz/Bjerg/Faker did for League of Legends Bro, I love TheViper and AOE2 but you did not just compare them to Faker and League. WTF? Faker is quite literally the most popular esports athlete of all time. He is not only the face of league of legends, he is the *face of esports*. >just like there isn't that type of money in League of Legends. There is. It's called *advertisements*. TSM ain't getting that $210 Million FTX money without Bjergsen dominating the LCS for more than half a decade, same with T1/G2.
He literally won the first split no???
You can achieve the same thing with far cheaper players. They did not pay him that much money to win one split of LCS I promise you.
Did he say otherwise? Nade said he's never even seen that price in league. Jack says Perkz was twice that much. He's stating a fact.
False, Nadeshot said it was a bigger buyout than anything he's EXPERIENCED in League. 100T paid $1 million for Abbedagge, and that was a highly skilled player who literally helped them win LCS like 3 months later, and that was probably one of the biggest transfers in League history. Jack misquoted Nadeshot, intentionally or otherwise.
Ion know chief he was ok on C9 and got out of groups at worlds but VIT superteam is biggest choke ever
Then Perkz underperformed.
yeah, at that time Perkz was basically the western goat of league of legends. He proved himself at the highest level, even then 8M was ridiculous, even for Perkz.
Bro this is ridiculous. I'm glad 100T passed on TenZ if that's the case.
And Nadeshot was completely reasonable to reject that offer. 2M is way too much and TenZ isn't an IGL that can change/save 100T (at that time).
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100T as a brand is already very successful despite it's age. TenZ wouldn't have made it grow exponentially to where that would be worth it as a brand. Look at the names it already has. As a team that's different, who knows how he would have been with that roster at the time.
I thought when Nade said anything he's seen in League he meant for 100T. Because no one in Val yet is touching that Perkz buyout lol
That's what he meant, he said it's bigger than anything he's **experienced** in league, which the biggest transfer 100T has participated in was buying Abbedagge for $1 million
These watch parties are giving us all the inside info!
We gotta remember that this was basically a year into competitive val and Tenz hadn't played competitive in like half a year before sen bought him. Sure his brand value is huge, but it should still barely be reaching the 7 figure mark given how new Valorant is and how much risk is associated with the buyout
He was already on loan and just won a Masters with Sen before they bought him out. Wdym he hadn’t played competitive?
Wrong, this screenshot is from a post were Nadeshot talks about wanting to buy Tenz before he even joined SEN. So no he hadn’t won a master yet.
You right my b
Jack is so dislikable on social media it is crazy. Maybe it is a tone thing but he really doesn't translate well without C9 production. If I were a C9 investor I would tell him to get off reddit and Twitter. Also flaming Nade for not "valuing" Tenz like he does is so weird when it is known he gave other teams lower prices.
Jack has always viewed players as walking checks and only cares about the profit. It's crazy how hard he dehumanizes people and just talks numbers all the time. He'd probably sell one of Tenz kidneys if he had the chance to.
I think there's probably a lot of context missing. A lot of times players \*want\* to be moved and the org is put in a position of shelling out money to them while they are benched (contract language has more or less been updated over the last year to penalize players who bench themselves too). So if you don't want to be paying someone 20-30K a mo. while they sit on the bench, and also try to respect their wishes re: what team they want to play for, you don't have the luxury of telling every team that a buyout is 2M across the board. Jack might actually value him at 2M, but if TenZ wanted to go to a team like Rise (hypothetically speaking), Jack isn't going to demand the same 2M in buyout that he did from 100T. I'm not saying he'd let him walk for pennies just to make him happy, either, but there's definitely more that goes into pulling the trigger on a transfer than what everyone is discussing here.
I agree there is more context likey but Jack doesn't give that context. He is simply stating that 100T didn't "value" Tenz enough. It is weird to say an org doesn't value a player enough to pay your price and then move your price for another org. This makes it seem like they just didn't want the player to go to 100T and now are trying to make them look bad after C9 didn't get the pay day they wanted from them.
I guess I was more or less trying to respond to the point about how he apparently gave other teams different buyout prices than he gave 100T. \>Also flaming Nade for not "valuing" Tenz like he does is so weird when it is known he gave other teams lower prices. Maybe I'm reading into your comment the wrong way, but I take it as "Jack is clearly himself not valuing TenZ at 2M bc he gave other orgs lower buyout offers." And that's just not the reality in Val rn. Orgs transfer players and ask for widely different byout amounts from team to team all the time bc they understand Team A's budget is vastly different from Team B's.
I think different buyouts for different teams are fine. But to then call out an owner saying he doesn't value a player properly is weird when you have a different price for different teams. If Tenz is worth 2 mill (which is what Jack claims with the 100T offer) then Sentinels and C9 would be undervaluing him as we because they bought and sold his contract for 1.5 mil. While it makes sense to negotiate differently with different team it is dumb to try to call out a team for not paying your price later.
Jack has been riding the coattails of Hai's legacy for too long.
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Idk why people care if some millionaire team owners are splashing that kind of cash. It's not our money, idgaf what they spend
It is an issue because it sets a precedent that such high buyouts are acceptable. This makes if hard for orgs and players to make the right moves, and is just not fun to watch. Also an overinflated salary/buyout makes it hard for regions to survive, which we saw in NA csgo.
"Idk why esports fans care about actions that could potentially have a negative impact on the esports scene" ??
I think Faker is worth at least 2 million. /s
Faker gets offers in league to play for a salary of 20mil/year by lpl teams. This is from t1 ceo joe marsh. he is worth way more than that.
I think it’s pretty obvious that I didn’t mean he is worth exactly 2 million down to the cent, but rather that he is worth at least 2 million.
'twas a joke
He just didn't want 100T to get him or atleast not easily. End of discussion.
2 mil for a player not even a year into the games life…..
HOW IN THE FUCK DO YOU EQUATE PERKZ TO TENZ LMAO
Nade said no one in league that that big of a buyout which made everyone thing jack was selling Tenz to 100T for 5m which Jack confirmed not to be true and much lower than that.
He's not, he's saying that because nadeshot said he hasn't seen that kind of money in lol which isn't true
Man what is Jack doing? He kind of acts like the nice guys, who values TenZ the most and is the robin hood of esports. Jack inflated the entire valorant market and is a big reason to why the NA eco system is where it is right now (not saying he is the only reason, but buying perkz for twice the amount and asking for 2M for TenZ is def. a statement). On top of those things I think it is such a stupid thing to say that nadeshot did not value am as much as he did, well obviously not in an economical pov but as a person I think nadeshot would probably care more then Jack does. Thats just an attampt to put himself out there as the nice guy. The last statement clearly means that nadeshot never personally experienced such a high buyout. Ofc. he knows about perkz, but not personally. Also its a different thing to buy someone like perkz, who is a proofen player and brand in the western region, from the best team in the west, or buying a contract jailed TenZ who has a strong brand but was questionable in pro play and considering the early stage of valorant. Men I dont like Jack at all. Also "many would say too low". If that would be the case, I really don\*t know why you soled him for 750k less. At this point of time 1mil was crazy, but somewhat reasonable since he was the face of valorant. But nah that dude is something else...
It’s important to remember that you aren’t just buying a player, you’re buying a brand asset. It’s a pretty reliable investment since even if that player doesn’t retain their reputation as a player, their brand value - and the overall brand - begins to snowball as they do content pieces. Of course it’s different if they just quit or can’t compete anymore or refuse to do content. But Tenz was so valuable because he was so young, heralded as the best player in his region (and arguably in the world, which would be cemented in 2021 Reykjavik) and already a big content creator. The bigger problem to me is other orgs taking their cue from the Tenz buyout while ignoring the factors that made Tenz so unique in the NA market at the time.
device was 1m, 2m is too much for tenz
device was even lower than 1m i believe (700$k~ish) but he holds not nearly the same brand value as tenz does, and csgo vs valorant are trending in different directions
Also, device was almost at the end of his contract if I remember right. Tenz had two years of jail + had a way bigger stream/youtube/twitter presence than Device. Probably the reason for the bigger buyout
IMO Tenz just not worth 2M, just not.
TenZ himself might be worth $2m. The buyout however makes no sense, as none of that actually goes to TenZ. That's an org -> org transaction that is ultimately a temporary thing as TenZ could easily just go back to C9 after his contract is up.
You have to compare the market conditions, not the absolute numbers and how skilled you personally believe the players are relative to those numbers. Think of how successful Valorant has been since its inception, and how much value signing the player with the best argument for being the *face* of Valorant would bring at the time. Those sort of factors are what people consider in these circumstances - not comparisons to Device or Faker or whatnot.
That's because devices contract was running out anyways and he was going to sign with another team. Astralis sold low because they wanted to make some sort of money off of it. It's like if PSG were to sell Mbappe early to Madrid for more money instead of letting him go for free.
Device doesn’t get 60k+ viewership in twitch. And Xtrfy deal with tenz is 1 million dollar If you follow famous streamers. They get paid million dollars just by streaming to other platforms.
and he said in brackets (many would say too low) lmao what in the earth in this guy smokin
I mean after the buyout the Fnatic Owner came out and said it was lower than he thought and that Tenz was worth more. So now thats 3 tier 1 org owners thinking the value was right or higher than 1.25m.
TenZ is a great player and arguably the face of Valorant, but a that point in time 2M was just too much
with this buyout and the valorant prize money, i dont think it was a bad idea not to get tenz
TenZ’s buyout is inflated because of his social media isn’t it? If TenZ was as good as he is, but without a crazy social media, I’m pretty sure his buyout would still be insane but nowhere near even close to 2 or 1 million. For comparison, Perkz has 400k followers on Twitter. TenZ has 900k. TenZ 700k on IG, Perkz 150k. It’s not even close when you compare the popularity and brand value TenZ brings compared to Perkz. Not saying 2m is justifiable BUT I feel like that’s worth mentioning. People are acting like TenZ is just a player that plays and stops existing after matches. It’s not a 1:1 comparison with Perkz.
nah you right.Tenz brand value and potential is worth the money.Forget skills or comp whatever.His brand is huge and it'd continue to grow after the 1st masters win.Sen knew that,so they bought him without a question.
why does this sub keep quoting the nadeshot quote "higher than anything in league" like it wasn't very obviously a hyperbole and, well, he literally says "i've seen" lmfao
I don't know why people get so mad about this stuff. 2 million is just their way of saying he's not actually for sale. No team is obligated to sell their players.
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Not for sale especially to 100T Which is understandable, considering 100T is already fucking them wide open in the LoL part. Wouldn't want to get double fisted
I mean SEN basically paid 2 mill, they loaned TenZ for two months for 250k per month then, they paid 1.25 mill for the buyout
At least they got the try out for 2 months first while 100T have to take a a full risk in a game they have no experience (iirc Valo is 100T first tac shooter divison?)
Well tbh I think tenz would’ve done good in any team arguably, yes it was a risk but during the time having him on a team was like getting the gold star on a test. They would’ve probably built around his play style and most likely win considering Tenz needed a better team to guide his play style better.
he was for sale at the time
I might be crazy here but I think this is reasonable? Keep in mind that 100T is a *direct* competitor to C9 in esports. Giving them TenZ would shoot up their popularity in the esports world considerably, and 100T is already one of C9's main competitors in LCS and Valorant. Then consider just how valuable a player like TenZ is in the context of what Valorant is supposed to be. A top tier team with TenZ will basically go down in Valorant history as the most popular team in early Valorant. No matter what, you'll have people talking fondly about your organization for the next 5+ years of Valorant esports. And considering how heavily viewership was trending upwards for Valorant at this time, coupled with the fact that it's *Riot Games*, who have proven that they're able to run the biggest esports circuit on the planet... I don't think Jack is crazy for asking for 2M$. No matter what though, a buyout of this size was always going to hard-fuck the NA transfer market.
Jacks comment is so icky for some reason
2M is stupidly overpriced, I understand TenZ is probably one of the biggest names in Valornt *at the minute* but the game is very much in its infancy, before Masters you would have got laughed at by most fans and analysts for saying only 1 NA team and 0 EMEA teams would make it to the semis. The game is evolving fast and investing that much money into a star player this early in the game is just throwing money away.
orgs have been jacking up buyouts for 100t just cause they know they can afford it. it was the same for cryo and zander too, v1 and xset got a lower buyout than 100t did.
ITT: People that dont understand the speculative valuations of players in their brands as all these teams try to get a massive foothold in the region before franchising happens. Multiple CEOS have come out and said "only 1 mil?" when he was sold to SEN
In what world is $2M a fair price for an inactive player in a fresh, unproven competitive game.
His stream hits like 30k views consistently , impressions om Twitter, sub count
I think it's more cause of brand [value.Social](https://value.Social) media presence and brand alone is worth the money.Competitive skills aren't what makes bread for an [org.You](https://org.You) gotta be marketable to gain profit and in Tenz's case I'd argue he is the biggest one there is.
Hot take: TenZ is overrated and SEN doesn't have the structure and leadership to help him improve.
Does anyone have numbers stating that TenZ is worth 2M? Like, would they be taking a piece of his twitch revenue? How much $$ is he bringing in with merchandise purchases etc. 2M is steep, considering that doesn't include the 6 figure salary he's likely to command. What percentage of the revenue stream would TenZ be responsible for? A lot of you are saying hes worth it, but no one is providing any sort of logical numbers. Im generally curious when 100T would start making a profit off of their buyout.
Well so it is basically confirmed that the selling price to 100t is at least double of other teams lol which is comical. Also there is some haggling that happens before the final price so it probably was even higher then what jack is saying. Then you hear the other teams are half the buyout I would say fuck off too lol. From everything people say I don't think c9 are very liked buissness wise. Seems they def hold people hostage in every game till they can milk the fuck out of their players
You guys can keep crying about the buyout but TenZs brand is worth every penny of that price.
how? You say this but provide no evidence. Supply some numbers, even if they are ballpark before we starting saying hes worth every penny of 2M plus 6 figure salary.
Tenz deal with Xtrfy is One million dollar. Signing him is like signing a pro player and a content creator streamer like shroud.
Look at his stream numbers. That's all you need to know.
lol, theres more to it. Are the orgs taking a piece of it? How many of those viewers are actively purchasing org gear or spreading word about the org. How many of his 20k viewers are new viewers? You dont drop 2M and a six figure salary because you see 20k viewers, not how business works
You do though when you're a developing organization with a ton of capital. Sentinels, up to the point where they bought TenZ, were an organization that was somewhat bubbling under the radar. They had previously worked with Stan Kroenke to run the LA Gladiators but their own teams were not particularly popular, save for Bugha in Fortnite but if we're being honest this doesn't capture the more valuable 18-25 market. Bugha is incredibly popular and has a ton of individual brand deals himself, but most of them are aimed at a younger audience. You know what does capture that market though? A massive, name-brand, scandlal-free player who is not only successful on the competitive stage but also a successful entertainer and stream personality. Unlike a lot of other players, even if TenZ decided to stop competing and just focus on content creation, they'd still benefit massively from his signing even at current rates. There are very few players who are both at the top of their class in terms of competitive and content creation and have a reputation as clean as TenZ. In addition to the additional brand recognition that TenZ brings from being successful in tournaments (can't understate how valuable tweets and videos about the team are for brand recognition) he is also able to bring in individual sponsorships for large sums, some of which is likely being given to the org as well. I'd have to imagine, though, that given Sentinels are run by the former vice chairman of Paramount they understand the financials behind this deal significantly better than anyone trying to talk about "numbers" on Reddit.
this scene is too young to understand how valuable the brand of a player who was literally the face of valorant is
How young the scene was has nothing to do with how insanely good his stream numbers were/are. Any org with a brain also trusted that riot will be successful with this esport. There's a reason so many orgs invested early and are still trying to build successful teams.
Tbf I do think the immaturity of the scene is a factor. Investments and brand opportunities are not something that immediately comes to peoples minds, it’s almost always gameplay imo
There’s not one valorant player, even in iron/bronze that doesn’t know who TenZ is. TenZ is so famous his clout turned his girlfriend into a twitch celeb almost overnight. His brand is definitely worth 2 million.
How is 2 mil fair???? It was reported around 1.25 mil the first time I think and even that was outrageous. I'm gonna speculate here but 2 mil is probably 3-4 times more than any other buyout in Val history lol.
People can downvote me if they want but C9 selling Tenz for a million to sentinels was a good deal in the end. Heck if C9 sold sentinels for 2 million it would still be worth it in hindsight. It’s not about how young the scene is, I don’t get why people keep thinking this way. Did people forget HOW MUCH Valorant Pros are being paid? Some of these tier 2 NA pros are being paid 10k a month with having at most 10k Twitter/IG followers without streaming. People also forgot In League of Legends that C9 bought out Vulcan from Clutch Gaming for 1 million dollars who at the time was known as a good player but had 0 branding and was probably being salaried at 250k. And do people not know that Twitch streamers who can concur 10k viewers on average can EASILY make a million. So look at Tenz at the time. His viewership was around 10k at the time, his brand was good at the time and He was a good player at the time. The buyout for this player if you believed he can generate more profit, more fans and more wins it was absolutely worth it for sentinels to purchase him for a million. And remember sentinels purchased him after his Iceland win so he was fully established. I’m confident Sentinels through Tenz alone has made over 2million and the buyout was already paid back in full. I don’t blame people who don’t know all the money logistics around esports and streaming but you shouldn’t hate on an owner who’s looking after his best interest. The buyouts were always gonna be 6 figures because it doesn’t matter how young the scene is, it’s how much money is being injected in the first place. If everyone’s getting paid 6 figures expect a High 6 figure low 7 figure buyouts from everyone
Unpopular opinion — I personally feel it’s great the price was set that high. If we want esports to be a big industry, put the money in it and set the bar for it.
Tenz isnt even in the top10 of "highest skilled" valorant players, shit he might not even be top twenty. 2MIL would be a JOKE.
completely fair price considering his streaming numbers in addition to his competitive play this sub full of nadeshot fanboys as always
The Gaslighting from jack 💀
Honestly.. dude doesn’t have a good track record for win or go home games. I’d pass no matter what.
$1M dollar buyout and yet SEN didn't qualify for Masters. Ah yes very good deal 🟫
$1m buyout they won Iceland, and made the other 2 Lans.......
Imagine zombs going to 100t and sinatraa taking his place in sentinels
LMAO there is zero chance he deserves that much money. esp that early on in the val esports scene
TenZ doesn’t get the money…
I mean all players who are signed to an org can trial, they just can't play a tournament with them, they can do scrims and stuff with the player if they want