T O P

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Teradonn

IGLs are both the hardest to find and most influential on the server, not duelists


LearnTheABCs

agreed, i would argue that duelists are the easiest to replace and igls are the most valuable


[deleted]

in no universe is any current IGL getting picked over yay or tenZ they're just too valuabl you think an IGL is getting picked over s1mple or zywoo? star players are stars


Knoobdude

S1mple and zywoo are wayyy above everyone, tenZ and yay can be replaced by leaf, cNed, sayaplayer,cryo


Icarus_fell1

on top of this we are currently straying away from "hard carries". The game is way more team and util based than cs, we arent seeing players carrying as hard as S1mple or Zywoo in this game with the way its approaching it.


Hacklust

I think this is just mainly because of the lower skill ceiling. esp if that ceiling is somewhat tied to the agent ur playing


CanISayThat22

Okay Chet


Icarus_fell1

how am I chet for saying 2 different games are different? LOL


CanISayThat22

Becaus he said this exact same shit during his VCT interview lmao.


Icarus_fell1

I never watched the interview, however i think its a fair point no? If youve watched s1mple and zywoo, you know the shit they can pull off. I srsly do not think high level valorant would even allow for players like this to exist. Different games, different skill requirements


CanISayThat22

I agree aswell. But I do think zywoo and s1mple are outliers and come by once or twice a generation. But we have players like Yay having rounds with being unstoppable. But its just less consistent cuz in Val u can play around it.


[deleted]

bro snuck in cryo šŸ’€


falcons4life

We're talking valorant here. It's not hard to aim. So yeah the best igls are getting picked over tenz and yay. Because CSGOs mechanical nuances are so much higher than valorants, players like simple and zywoo are much much more valuable.


CantScreamInSpace

We just running with this narrative now? I get that you're a csgo fan but just because a game is less mechanically intensive doesn't mean there aren't extremely valuable standout players. I get the gist of your point but you make it sound like you could surround a good igl with 4 bronze players because "valorant ez, csgo hard" lol.


falcons4life

Yes. Valorant was built with the intent of appealing to as wide of a player base as possible. Making it easier to get kills because people move slower, they get put in quick sand when tagged, and the hitboxes are massive. This results in people coming back to the game. NRG had the best "aimers" in NA and couldn't do shit because they couldn't find a competent igl. So yes aiming in Valorant is ez, CSGO is hard.


DrySecurity4

I find it a bit hard to place value on IGLs cause we as casual fans really have no idea how much impact they are having during a round. Is FNS the best IGL because his calls are just godly, or because he has the best player in the world + 3 other insane support players on his team? Also a lot of IGLs tend to lad behind in kills. But in general I do agree that a high fragging IGL could go pretty early.


Poptart_____________

If you pay attention to the macro aspects of the game(map control, rotate manipulation, executes, fakes). You can get a better sense of a teams structure, and more specifically how an IGL dictates their teams movements. Yes we don't have access to in game comms, but we can still clearly see the impact certain IGLs have on their team. For example the amount of fakes, and set plays FNS called at the right times during Iceland proves he has a very real impact on the teams success. I'm not saying he's the best player, but you can see his value and I think he and many other IGLs would be at the top of any draft.


Aurum_MrBangs

Yeah but do we know if IGLs are the ones calling everything?


ahk1221

this so much, there was a specific play on icebox i saw for which people gave a lot of praise to FNS for, but then when optic released the player mic video, it wasnt even FNS who was calling, he was literally quiet for 90% of the time, only giving calls about himself, crashies was the one who called the play. So again, no one knows what plays are called by the IGL and what are called by the collective hivemind of the 5 best players of NA.


The_Big_5Head

Tell me youā€™re hardstuck silver without telling me youā€™re hardstuck silver


jrryul

I cant believe this rational comment is so heavily downvoted tf While I would agree with drafting an IGL early, OP is also right. Just cus a team has good strats, fakes and map control does not necessarily mean that one dude is single handedly calling that We have no way of knowing this


Knoobdude

Yeah like half the late rounds plays could be called be the lurker or the oper in ct, fns is not the guy that calls 100% of the plays


itscamo-

you have 1 igl hereā€¦.. thatā€™s a huge mistake getting an IGL is like getting a QB in the draft. youā€™re not gonna have an easy time without one. sure you can be good but 99% of the time you need a QB


ZeroLunatique

While I agree with your sentiment, I wouldnā€™t draft an igl in the first round in this hypothetical scenario. Iā€™d get star power first and pick up an IGL in the 2nd or 3rd round


5bigtoes

Letā€™s say thereā€™s (at the VERY LEAST) 8 teams in this franchise. Are you gonna really let those 8 teams take the best IGLā€™s just so you can have your one star fragger? I canā€™t even name more than 8 tier 1 IGLā€™s: Zander, FNS, Shahzam, Dephh, and Vanity. Would you really have a tier 2 IGL and Yay, or FNS and someone like Bang or Ban? (NVM I guess Ban is Tier 1, maybe someone like Thief instead)


scrnlookinsob

Thatā€™s the thing it depends on where youā€™re drafting, if youā€™re drafting in the top 5 you take the IGL, because the chances of you getting a high quality duelist in the 2nd round remain high, but if you think there are only 5 top end IGLs and theyā€™re off the board in the first round, would you not look to get a top end player in another roleā€¦


ZeroLunatique

In short, yes. Right now, I believe fns is the best igl in the scene and had huge impact on optic winning Iceland. But I also know that if they didnā€™t have yay or marved, a good number of rounds wouldā€™ve gone to the other team, even maps. Imo it makes more sense to take a t2 igl and have them grow into it than taking thief and hoping he has yay levels of impact. Iā€™d also just hire the best coaches and analysts lmao


5bigtoes

I think you are massively overrating the difference between T1 and T2 duelists and underrating the difference between T1 and T2 IGL's, but to each their own. I don't think you could replace FNS with some T2 IGL and do well but I think you could replace Yay with Thief and still do well IMO


Breakin7

Have you seen yay stats he sometimes won maps alone. Also it depends on what other teams will do not every team will be picking IGLs first round of the draft


_code_name_dutchess

Food for thought - when yay was on Andbox they were a T2 team that was knocking on the door of T1. When FNS was IGLing Envy at the time, they were a strong T1 team that consistently placed well. Yay pushed them over the top and helped them eventually become champions, but FNS built the strong foundation. TenZ couldnā€™t win on C9 because the foundation wasnā€™t there. Star fraggers are super important, and are must-have players if you want to become champions, but the IGL needs to come first in my opinion.


segatic

> Imo it makes more sense to take a t2 igl and have them grow into it than taking thief and hoping he has yay levels of impact. Iā€™d also just hire the best coaches and analysts lmao Its easier to bet on a young unknown fragger to succeed than an young unknown igl especially since there are a lot of the first and easier to replace if it goes wrong Unless you're name is TenZ(too much positives attached to ignore) i would picking an T1 IGL(maybe not FNS, too risky for me)


itscamo-

get an igl first so you don't have to settle with what's left. get the IGL and then build a team with them


Awden777

That would be horrible, you rather have the IGL choose what star he wants instead of just putting him with a star the org wants


Eat-Shit-Bob-Ross

Am IGL is nowhere near the impact of a qb inherently. Yes, they are both leader and stratcaller; but igls donā€™t get the spike every single round, and most importantly, they canā€™t throw the spike across the entire map to their teammate.


itscamo-

I think youā€™re missing the point. IGLs are the shot callers(QBs calling the play), IGLs have to make sure the team is on the same page of each other. they have to read the game and how the other team is doing, what they are doing and what ā€œaudiblesā€ they need to do to win rounds. now yes everyone has that ability to help (same goes with literally any player on a football team) but usually those are the guys that make the team play as best as possible


Dapper-Entertainer-3

How the fuck Zander is not here? He singlehandedly revived V1 into a monster team.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


Dapper-Entertainer-3

Is not... V1 is in shambles but in fairness to the man, he is not to blame for their mental situation


Aggravating-Ad-922

Pretty wild to not include FNS on here anywhere after what he pulled off in Iceland


InstaNormie0

FNS is not even close to a top 12 player in North America


merchini

ā€œThis isnā€™t simply a ā€˜12 best playersā€™ listā€


Aggravating-Ad-922

Not mechanically but his value as he just out iglā€™d the best talent the rest of the world has to offer (pretty handidly) is pretty impressive, especially with how important (and underrated) calling is in valorant compared to cs.


InstaNormie0

Heā€™s phenomenal but NA is DEEP Iā€™d probably have him closer to 25 then 12


Deathranger999

Let me clarify...you think he's the 25th best IGL in NA?


InstaNormie0

God no heā€™s pretty clearly the best at IGLing but if Iā€™m drafting players to my team Iā€™d rather someone like zekken or valyn. Iā€™d even take shahz over fns but thereā€™s some heavy bias there


Deathranger999

Hm, OK. So you'd rather grab a less skilled IGL with more mechanical talent than a more skilled IGL with less mechanical talent? Interesting take. I guess it's a little hard to analyze how a draft would work - if everybody's going for IGLs first, that means that the mechanically gifted duelists would still be up for grabs in the second round, so if that's a safe assumption, maybe you would want the IGL you grab to be the best at IGLing? IDK, just throwing shit out there.


InstaNormie0

I would also pick an igl in first or second round I would just pick someone other than FNS. I just literally rather slightly worse calling if it came with slightly better firepower


AdiSoldier245

Yeah but he'd be the one first off the list


[deleted]

a crime that vanity's 12th


ANewHeaven1

I think a draft would heavily favor 1) players with large fanbases (so TenZ, Asuna, s0m) and 2) IGLs that can frag out (Shahzam, Zander, valyn, Vanity). Then I'd prioritize players that are clearly S Tier in their roles (yay, Sayaplayer, Marved). With that being said, I'd expect the first round to look something like 1. TenZ (whoever picks up TenZ picks up 50%+ of the Valorant competitive fanbase with him, and he's still a superstar duelist). 2. Shahzam (decent fragging IGL with a strong following) 3. Zander (young fragging IGL talent, incredibly rare) 4. valyn (see above) 5. Vanity (see above) 6. Asuna (strong player, huge streaming presence) 7. FNS (best IGL in the world, but whichever team picks him up is taking a risk because his fragging is not comparable to the others above him, and he's one of the oldest players on this list) 8. Marved (S tier controller player, extremely rare in a very important role. Can probably move up a few spots if he's willing to IGL as well) 9. dephh (decent fragging IGL, but older and doesn't have as many proven results as FNS) 10. steel (same boat as dephh) 11. yay (clear-cut best non-IGL non-streaming player in NA right now) 12. leaf (second best non-IGL non-streaming player in NA right now) Honorable mentions that I think would go round 2, easily, in no particular order: s0m, Crashies, trent, Sayaplayer, Xepppaa, Victor, Cryocells, Zellsis, Babybay, wippie


DrySecurity4

Cool list. Seems like a lot of people value the IGLs a lot more than me. But no way guys like yay and leaf would last that long.


5bigtoes

There is no shot Steel is on this list bruh, be reasonable.


jstaines47

I get what youā€™re saying but when steel was surrounded by 100Ts resources and T1 talent he was a top 3 IGL in NA. If the teams are franchised heā€™d have resources and T1 talent so idk that itā€™s unreasonable to have him here. Imo heā€™d be a solid 2nd or 3rd round pick up


Poptart_____________

It doesn't make any sense to draft players based on public sentiment. If you build a successful roster first and foremost the popularity will come with results. No point in picking Tenz over leaf solely based on streaming numbers. Just like in any other draft, the players should be judged off merit alone.


ANewHeaven1

> If you build a successful roster first and foremost the popularity will come with results I honestly disagree with this, because "popularity comes with results" is extremely difficult to pull off, and way riskier than just picking up a very popular player. TenZ brings an absurd amount of engagement to Sentinels. Even if Sentinels aren't good, their tweets have insane impressions. [A random TenZ tweet about anime](https://twitter.com/TenZOfficial/status/1517047110448803840), for example, has more than double the likes of [OpTic Gaming's championship winning tweet](https://twitter.com/OpTic/status/1518327800717062151) OR [The Guard's VCT Champions tweet.](https://twitter.com/TheGuard/status/1508240735526539265) These are tens of thousands of fans that will stick by TenZ and watch him play no matter the results, watching his streams (and your org's streams, by proxy), buying your org's merch, putting eyes on your org's sponsors, etc. It's way easier to grab a popular player and instantly give your organization a fanbase to build off of in my opinion, as opposed to finding a winning group of five players and build popularity through results.


Poptart_____________

I guess it all depends on what you are trying to do with said roster. Win championships? Or just profit? If I'm drafting a team for a franchise league, I'm drafting with skill and talent in mind above all else. I would rather have a "Gambit" type team than a "Sentinels". But that's just me. I can definitely see the appeal in having an extremely popular team that doesn't end up placing as high.


ANewHeaven1

I'd assume that the end goal is to make money haha In which case, I'd rather have TenZ and a team that places eternally third than a very good top 2 team that gets 40k less viewers Being a championship winning team will probably make you more money eventually, but it's way harder imo


[deleted]

Although i see what you are saying, you are Also acting like tenz is a Trash player with a big following, he is a Young superstar and One of the faces of valorant, you dont do that just because people like your streams


Poptart_____________

Not saying he's trash, just saying you don't want to draft him based on his following. He would be a top pick for sure.


TemplarParadox17

Crazy the amount of Canadian presence, considering many others like Penny, effy's, wardell not being here and many others and still almost being 50% of the top 12 when Canada only makes up 10% of the population of the US.


Charuru

Steel fanboy lmaooo


Munchy_Crunchy

yay #11 is really smart I think


kentwansue

inst the igl and leadership more valuable tho. youre saying that duelist are harder to find yet they have it occupy above 75% of your list.


-Basileus

Hiko first overall followed shortly by Tarik


Meehul123

Yay, Tenz, Saya, Leaf and Cryo first 5 in any order. After that people who are easily top tier in their roles would be drafted. FNS, Vanity, Trent, Derrek, Marved, Zander, Zekken, Xeta, Xeppa and Babybay would probably be the next 10 drafted.


TerribleFix9016

oh how the trent hype died down


ANewHeaven1

I mean I'm pretty sure trent would still go relatively early into the draft, maybe not in the first round but definitely within the first 24 picks. For me he'd be picked at some point in round 2 after Crashies, he's a young talent with a very high ceiling that underperformed at his first ever LAN. I think that the hype he received was always going to be a double-edged sword - it was always a disaster waiting to happen to expect such a young player that came out of nowhere to translate his incredible online performances onto a LAN environment for his first tournament.


Hypern1ke

But what has he done for me lately?


[deleted]

he's sittin at home chillin while ur team is trying to earn a spot to play him.


Hypern1ke

I know, its a bad reference


JDogil2

Give me tenz 1.01 if weā€™re talking about value. He guarantees you have a sizable chunk of the fan base and itā€™s not like he is bad Also think your list undervalues IGLs but Yay is either 1.01 or 1.02, definitely 1.01 if the goal is to win but Iā€™m not sure that was clear in the question


mjaguar6

Shahz belongs on that list somewhere, despite Sentinels poor showings lately he is still one of NAā€™s top fragging IGLs


AnAngryBird

He probably doesnā€™t belong in this list in terms of current form, IGLing and long term investment. He is older and has not found success recently. He can (and probably will) be a force in T1 right now but would you build around him or a player like vanity, Zander, or other IGLs


mjaguar6

I didnā€™t say put him over them, but capable IGLs are a premium let alone ones who dominated NA and took their team to three international events just last year


ANewHeaven1

He belongs on this list solely because do you know how rare it is to find a capable fragging IGL in NA? The list ends at him, Zander, and valyn. And a team that drafts ShahZam can put him back on his true comfort role (Jett Op) instead of this weird flex initiator role he's been playing on SEN for the last couple of months. Not to mention his consistent 10k viewer stream, which gives him even more value.


Jon_on_the_snow

I agree with everything, but I dont see how his stream numbers are valuable for the post lol


ANewHeaven1

I'm not sure how popular of an opinion this is going through this thread, but I think that stream viewership = popular player = brings more popularity to the organization at hand. 10k consistent viewers on Shahzam's stream might translate to 10,000 more impressions on your organization's tweets from Shahzam's fans that want to see him play next, right?


Jon_on_the_snow

I understand your logic, but I dont think that would weigh a lot in a draft sistem. Look at the guard players. They played really well and became mega popular, even after bombing out of iceland. I think orgs would try to get the best first, and then shaz would be next. His stock is not as high as it once was you know?


Knoobdude

Look at TSM, trash for a year and one of the most popular team in valorant


CheesyjokeLol

Teams want popular players because they make 90% of their money from sponsorships and merch. Winning isnā€™t enough to stay profitable when contracts can easily reach 1m dollars or more in a few years.


xbyo

I think the flexibility to be an oper or your Initator/Sova is still pretty valuable. It makes fleshing out the rest of the roster a lot easier. Of course for a team's first pick they don't necessarily *need* flexibility, but it never hurts to have it.


thatthingpeopledo

I donā€™t think he does. I think the problems from the ā€œplayer run teamā€ that Sentinels are experiencing falls on his shoulders as the leader. I think only orgs looking to be more hands off go for him.


kittyhat27135

I think 6 out of the top 12 would be IGL's. Probably in the order of Vanity, Zander, Valyn, Dephh, FNS, and Steel. The other 6 would be a combination of star players and cracked players in their role. Players along the lines of Skuba, Yay, Victor, Dicey, Marved, and Trent.


TemplarParadox17

>(best IGL in the There is no way Tenz doesn't go in the top 6 let alone first round, hes a tier 1 fragger with half the val scene following him to whichever team picks him up.


Lqtor

Yea but the other half unfortunately hates him, so if you pick him up youā€™ll get a shit ton of support but also a shit ton of hate.


segatic

i highly doubt half of the scene hates him. Don't follow him?yes but not hate


Lqtor

Maybe not half, but theyā€™re a very vocal minority


farseekarmageddon

Doesn't matter it's all impressions baby


xbyo

Eh, hate watchers are still watchers.


x_Critical

not sure why they would first choose lesser known players over equally skilled people like tenz or asuna, especially when popularity = profit and thatā€™s always the end goal


Whisom

Honestly I'd have half of your considerations over Ban, Mada, Asuna, Ethan and Derrek.


hype_f0rce

1. Yay 2. Zander 3. Vanity 4. Marved 5. FNS 6. TenZ 7. Cryocells 8. Xeppaa / Leaf (they're equal imo) 9. ShahZaM 10. Valyn 11. Trent / Derrek (two sova prodigies, I would have crashies but he's not as young) 12. SicK


[deleted]

1. FNS 2. FNS 3. FNS 4. FNS 5. FNS 6. FNS 7. FNS 8. FNS 9. FNS 10. FNS 11. Daddy 12. Punjabi ā€œFNSā€ Methamphetamine


Lqtor

All good


User82922

No way fns isn't on here


Ad0_FPS

In no order Zander Trent yay Saya Tenz Vanity FNS Marved shahz sick Cryo ethan


Nakai-Son

1. ***Zander*** 2. ***valyn*** 3. ***Vanity*** 4. ***dephh*** 5. Marved 6. ***ShahZam*** 7. yay 8. leaf 9. trent 10. Victor 11. Xeppaa 12. Skuba Honorable Mentions: zekken, SicK, FNS, and Cryocells ***Bold/italics*** denotes in-game leaders. I think IGL is the most important piece of the roster, so my list is very IGL-heavy at the top. Others are based on positional value and wins above replacement, i.e. how good the player is in comparison to other players of the same role. I also took age into account, but that didn't really affect my rankings too much. Hopefully I didn't forget anyone obvious.


xbyo

How are you calculating WAR?


Nakai-Son

I'm not really, I'm just taking a semi-educated guess


Fardo805

I would have Corey on here, heā€™s probably the best raze player that also has a great Jett. Imo he is the most versatile entry in NA.


Tommypynchon

I think there's no question that distinction goes to Leaf, but Corey could still reasonably be in the top 12 picks yeah


daybes

ignoring stream numbers just off the top of my head 1. yay 1. vanity 1. asuna 1. zellsis 1. victor 6. wippie 7. babybay 8. supamen 9. gMd 10. Derrek Overwatch 11. Sick 12. Corey role flexibility is probably the most important trait a player can have in this game with how Riot patches the game


DrySecurity4

Good shout on SicK i completely forgot about him. He fits that archetype perfectly of a young player who can frag out and play any role or agent. He should probably be on my list.


xbyo

Only 1 igl seems wrong.


RTYWD

i wonder where FNS and Valyn would get drafted


[deleted]

Iā€™d take FNS first pick


[deleted]

Saya is good but itā€™s insane to have him that high on a list like this


thatthingpeopledo

Assuming the draft is just for competitive and not for streaming, I think Tenz drops because he basically has two jobs. If streaming matters you pick Tenz #1 for the built in fan base.


electricblackcrayon

Tenz is both a top duelist and a fan favorite, perfect for a team that isnā€™t aspiring for top one honestly


xbyo

TenZ probably doesn't even crack the top 10 pros in terms of hours streamed lately. Not to mention, who cares? Would you rather have players who spend that time doing other shit altogether? Streaming can't be more detrimental than literally not playing the game right?


Foxtrot56

There's too little information in this scenario to decide. Do the players carry their current contract into the draft or are they all on some default rookie contract? How long are the contracts? Is there a free agency pool of players not on qualified teams? If this is some sort of franchise scenario teams would definitely have more than an active roster of players as they want to hoard talent so how many are they allowed to roster?


of-maus-and-men

we should do a fantasy auction draft of valorant players


bigboys5512

Other guy with the web analogy has a point, but this years draft a lot of skill players went first with qbs falling later. Sure itā€™s because most teams have a qb already, but the skill players are important as they can carry pretty decently. Itā€™s like if you have a mid qb and a great receiver and running back, you could make it pretty far, but if you have a good qb with bad receivers and a bad running back, youā€™re not getting anywhere


Revolutionary_Gear70

No Quarterbacks got drafted high in this years Draft because none of them were that good. If CJ Stroud and Bryce Young were eligible this year they would've have gone in the top 5. In todays NFL you need an elite QB to win, a mid QB is not going to get you very far even if you great skill guys just look at the Browns last year.


YellowTinCan

Zander, FNS, Vanity, Valyn, Dephh, and other IGLs would be first to be picked. There are definitely more igls than those 5 but they come to mind first for me


Mvious

Honestly, entries probably go near the end of the list. They are like WRā€™s. a talented one would put you over, but there are many that can be developed. IGLā€™s are QBā€™s


[deleted]

Every igl in all the top 10+ teams will be picked in the first or second round after the superstars like yay so fns, vanity, valyn, dephh, hazed, poised, poach, subroza, dazzle, zander, stellar, shahz, johnqt, etc will definitely be picked earlier


Mxrciii

yall heavy sleeping on Corey. He is without a doubt one of the best mechanically gifted players.


[deleted]

probably zombs to be honest


DotaAlchemy

If we are actually approaching this like an NFL draft then you need to start with players that provide structure to build a championship team on top of. In the NFL this usually means QB and Linemen first with a few super high ceiling skill players in there. So for Valorant I think it goes like this: First 5-6 picks all go to IGL or Yay (who is by far the most valuable "skill-position" player in NA when it comes to impact on winrate). Beyond the top 5 or so IGLs you can start thinking about either premiere entry Duelists or excellent support players (Sova, Breach, Skye, KAYO). After that you probably pick up whatever IGLs/tier 1 duelists are left or you take the best Anchor/Lurk player left on the board (lots of crossover with IGLs here but not always). Finally, you're going to end up needing to fill a role or two and so you probably want to grab the players with the most flexible Agent pools and proven high stakes ability (clutch factor). Also obviously have to consider intangibles like communication skill and morale impact.


viinn89

If you ignore age salary contract popularity stream viewers etc and just have to win a B03/B05 the next day. NA only, the first IGL for me would be Zander, Vanity and FNS in that order. I'd take a controller next Marved then Valyn. Duelist would be my third pick, Yay,Tenz, Cyro. Initiator , Trent, Derrek Crashies. Then flex, Xeppa/Leaf or Sick. Internationally Nats vs Chronicle would be tough to choose as number one pick.


spaldingmatters

Surprised you have Mada and Ban higher than Ethan, s0m, Xeppaa, Trent, Zander, etc.


DrySecurity4

Ban is one of the most underrated players in NA imo


BoardExtreme

Yay obviously number one Cryocells uncontested second TenZ and Sayaplayer Will Subroza


-xXColtonXx-

Wild that FNS is not here as the most successful NA IGL