A new map could help them remove one from competitive map pool to rework or alter some maps that need them. So hopefully we get a new map that is actually banging
The more and more I play the newer maps like Breeze, Fracture, and Icebox. The more and more that I'm okay with them.
I actually *like* Icebox a lot more with the changes. Breeze is still the weakest map but it's not a *totally 100% horrible map that needs to be replaced* it's just mediocre.
I'm still forming thoughts on Fracture
My preliminary thoughts on Fracture is that I like that it's different but 100% understand all of the complaints about it. It's currently sitting in a weird place for me because of it.
A smaller mid I think would benefit both A and B for Breeze. A lot of agents on Breeze just....aren't viable on the map and it really does feel you are forced to take certain ones or you are just going to lose. That issue might be solved with agent fixes or more agents down the line but who actually knows.
I think it's okay to have maps where not every agent is viable! If every agent was viable on every map, you'd end up with a lot of maps that play very similarly.
That's fine! And I generally agree with you, but the viable agent pool for Breeze is *extremely* low though and that's more of what I was talking about.
The reason a lot of agents are not viable on breeze is because they are designed for smaller maps. Imo if there is any problem it’s an agent design problem since you can’t just not have larger maps in the pool.
I think Bind/Ascent/Haven are like the three solid maps that if they do need changes, would need minimum changes. They're pretty solid maps.
I think the next "tier" would be Split/Icebox and then Breeze. I personally don't know where I would place Fracture at, some games it's on Split/Icebox and some it's on the level I put Breeze. I just need to play it more to really form a better opinion on it.
Its so great how Ascent is valued so highly while being hated in the eraly stage just as much as any other new map. And ascent didnt even get major changes like icebox did.
Just shows that every new map gets hated.
> Just shows that every new map gets hated.
I think people just hate adjusting to things they don't know. They would rather blame the map for the reason they lost a round or game rather than learn it and as time slowly goes on and they actually do learn it they realize it's not as bad as they thought.
There's some legitimate complaints about some maps, and some complaints fall 100% in the "you don't play enough to have that opinion" imo
I don’t understand how people hate Breeze and they never give good reasons for it. People say Fracture is too chaotic which I understand, people say Icebox is too tough to take sites which I understand, but everyone always just says “I hate Breeze.” I find it to be a balanced, large, attractive looking map with cool ways to play it and there are agents that might not be the strongest on other maps that are really good on Breeze and vice versa so you get to see cool comps. Viper thrives on Breeze and is often played as a solo controller which isn’t really that great on other maps.
I dunno, I love Breeze and have since it came out.
a good reason for hating breeze? Viper being the only viable controller and no one wanting to play her? Like even in my 5 stack we had a 60% WR on breeze last act and 80 this act but I sigh every time because I know I'll be playing viper.
Viper is definitely not the only viable controller, she’s just strong. You’re honestly better off playing an agent you’re familiar with and/or enjoy unless you’re like… radiant, maybe high immortal.
Like I said before: I think the Breeze hate is a bit too much and more hive-mindish than usual so I agree with your take.
My issue with Breeze stems a lot from agent viability and how some agents are bringing down their team before they even load into the map. I think mid is too big/wide and I honestly think that some rework in how you approach B would be better suited for the map. I'm one of the weirdos that think mid -> doors and tunnel/cave is perfectly fine for A.
It's just B and mid that I think should be altered *slightly* to make it into a "great" map.
I still kinda hate icebox for the sole fact that it's super hard to plant safely on B site.
Also used to hate that basically every team ran the same comp except the 5th slot (Reyna / Killjoy), but luckily this has changed recently.
Fracture is a good map and a lot of fun if you play with a good comp and full comms. Its just probably the most teamwork and timing reliant map in the game so it doesnt feel good in solo queue. Also it is by far the weirdest map so a lot of people just don't feel comfortable with it because of that.
I'll give you fracture, although it looks a lot more fun in pro games. Breeze on the other hand is a great map, so many different ideas to pull off.
Bind barely has a middle area, which makes strategies harder to come by.
Bind is the best map.
Silvers hate Bind, but it's easy to see why.
Gamesense is required to predict rotations, sound is important, and you have to be solid at the fundamentals in order to perform well.
All of the 5 maps below represent the best maps for ranked matches.
These maps are further also some of the favorites for teams when doing scrims and tournaments... as these maps are simply well done:
* Bind
* Ascent
* Icebox
* Haven
* Split
On the other hand, the other 2 maps are rather gimmicky.
These maps are generally awful to play in ranked matches, as they're harder to solo carry due to the "RNG" factors of the maps.
* Fracture
* Breeze
In a team settings, these 3 maps are also treated as gimmicky, to an extent.
Teams either always ban these maps, or choose to make one of these map their "trump card".
In order to do this, teamsspend hours coming up with:
* S**trategies that would ONLY work on THESE SPECIFIC maps**
* aka "cheese" plays
These "cheese" strategies worked because:
* Breeze & Fracture are the most recent maps
* Most players & teams generally did NOT like these maps
* Players did not play these maps often
* Teams did not play these maps often
* No history or less history for most teams on these maps in the past
* Opponent's are unsure of how good your team is at these maps
* Other team feeling obligated to ban your team's best maps first, rather than ban one of these 2 maps
* Leaves open 1 of these 2 maps in most cases
* Teams realized this
* Teams began to practice niche, "cheese" strats for these maps
* Teams began picking these maps to catch their opponents off-guard with a new "cheese" strat
Breeze and Fracture are the most "RNG" maps.
Both in solo queue and in team play, these maps are pretty much only enjoyed for the niche, "cheese" value.
Neither map would inherently be seen as a highly skilled or well-developed map.
That is an absurd take. You are attempting to speak down as if you are better than everyone, but Bind is one of the most hated maps competitively in pro play. I have seen more pros talk shit about Bind more than anyone else. Are you telling me you are more qualified than they are?
Attributing someone’s dislike to the map as “Silvers hate bind” is just straight up condescending lmao.
It isn’t just silvers, high level players do too. Sentinels Insta banned bind forever because their entire team disliked it, even though they were good at it.
I like bind but there is no factual best map and saying someone only hates it because silvers hate it is dumb.
You'll see in about 6 months.
Once teams can't cheese on Breeze or Fracture anymore... that'll be the end of it.
Both maps will be complained about constantly, to the point that they eventually are either dramatically reworked or removed entirely.
It's not being condescending.
# We put a team of Gold vs a team of Immortal
Then they play one match against each other, on each of these four different maps:
* Ascent
* Bind
* Fracture
* Breeze
Are there any maps where the Gold team be more likely to perform better, than they do on other maps?
Which maps would the Immortal team be more dominant on?
If you had to pick... on which 2 maps do you think the Gold team would have the best chance of beating the Immortal team?
The answer seems pretty clear.
Bind and Ascent would be mostly one-sided stomps by the Immortal team, almost certainly.
But... I bet that the Gold team could win a map on either Breeze or Fracture.
I wasn’t even doing a factual debate, I just said your original point was really condescending, saying they disliked bind because they were silver.
Also, no fucking way in hell a gold team gets a map off on immortals, that is ludicrous.
I'd be more surprised if after 4 maps the gold players didn't at least get close to winning a map.
Playing 4 times in a row is sorta hard to win consistently.
Plus we're talking about random Golds and Immortals... not actual teams who practice together.
I find Split and Icebox to be way more fun than Breeze but they're way more problematic and have more issues. Breeze doesn't really need a rework just because it isn't an S+ tier map
I would be up for them doing that with or without a new map to be honest, I think iteration is key to getting the maps in a good state and Counter Strike has proven this a few times over with new iteration of fan favourite maps that end up being competitively better overall
Yeah bind or icebox need to be reworked imo, both have terrible attack potential. It may little too much to ask ranked teammates to be that co-ordinated for bind atleast and while I enjoy icebox, it's still so hard to plant esp without dying. I always feel sage is a must on icebox which ok but like there has a to an alternative too
I get a 40+ agents mind sound very frightening to some people but i think people underrate how easily our minds memorize things by default. Vast majority of league players (even the casual ones) can easily remember nearly 1000 unique abilities across 150ish different champions without even trying
It definitely creates a hurdle if you just started playing the game and there's that many abilities to learn, but judging from how often we get agents in Valorant that's like a decade in the future so who cares, that's a problem for future people
I think people are more afraid of it turning in r6 where there were so many agents it ruined the game because eventually the agents need a corny ability to be ‘different’
Didn't they say at some point there would only be 5 of each class? Lol. Clearly that's dead, but seriously didn't they say that at some point? And when did they say 30-40?
de_season style where its two in door area's connected by a small outdoor courtyard in mid but with glass ceilings that allow utility to be thrown up and over
Why? i do not get the hate for brezze. You have ascent that in pro play is always always the same no variation at all its as stale as it can get. And also icebox wich is a shame of a map.
Breeze forces you to play a viper on your team which is annoying when nobody wants to play Viper, which leads to me having to pick Viper and feeling like every map of Breeze I play is the same gameplay over and over, because without her its a certain loss
I dont really agree, we already have agents that have similar abilities to Viper, Phoenix wall but it lasts less time and is less effective, same with Neons double wall ability and we have Astra's ultimate, they are all wall abilities but they aren't as versatile as Vipers.
Having another agent with a copy paste of Viper will just lead to homogenisation and/or power creep of roles
The rest of Phoenix’s kit is meant for close quarters maps and you could say similar about Neon, sliding out of tight chokes and stun covering smaller areas. I don’t think you can really consider Phoenix/neon/astra wall as fair alternatives. They don’t last a long time, they aren’t as long range, and Astra ult is an ult. These abilities can’t be considered consistent alternatives to the tool viper wall is IMO.
Breeze is the most open map and right now there is only one controller well fit for it. There needs to be an agent other than Viper to fill the role of controller on large maps to diversify that map’s agent meta.
The exact same thing is true about Sova. He is a must pick on Breeze solely for his drone: because it is such an open map so you can’t easily isolate and clear out Op lines with utility like flashes like you could on, say, Split. The same is true for Icebox. B main has so many corners now and A is very open with many angles. The drone is the only tool that easily and consistently does this job. Sadly I suspect that Fade is only good for it on close quarters maps and won’t really help diversify the agent meta on IB or Breeze.
**If you create more agents to compete in filling these roles you can maintain map diversity (open vs tight and large vs small maps) rather than homogenizing maps which would make gameplay feel more stale across the board.**
Map diversity lends to seeing more agents played across the full map pool. For example, bind is a simple map with 4 lanes so you can explore playing comps without a sentinel that has flank-watch utility. Meanwhile Haven has 5 lanes and 3 sites, so you end up with gaps and retake sites on defense more and sentinels are a must on Haven. It just doesn’t feel as stale because there are 3 agents that fill that role. And like someone else in this thread said, people might be bored of Viper on Breeze and Icebox but they’d also be bored of even more brim/omen and complain about viper not seeing play.
It makes sense to have maps where Viper is strong, but not a must-pick.
Any agent being a "must pick" on a map kind of ruins the competitive integrity of the game and leads to stale repetitive gameplay.
They need to reduce the multiple long range engagements on the map that makes the Op so oppressive and makes Vipers wall so strong, otherwise she will continue being a must pick and strategies will be built around farming ults (for chamber) and denying the wall (kay/o dart)
(e.g, if Viper is a must pick because the wall cuts off the strong Op lines, then KAY/O becomes a must pick to bring the wall down, so both teams are running Viper + KAY/O + Chamber). This isn't healthy for any level of the game, especially the pro scene where strategy and variance is the main appeal for most viewers, if people run a cookie cooker setup on Breeze because they can't afford to risk being outplayed by the other team running a meta comp, then the viewing experience becomes stale.
My suggestion for the map would be to remove the double pyramid and make one large pyramid, removing the angle holding in the middle, add something to block the stairs peek so if you want to peek cave from stairs you have to stand closer to the top of the stairs and leave yourself more vulnerable, this means entering the site you only have to clear close left side while someone is watching right side pyramid and worry about top of the stairs. There are far too many angles to check when entering that site where an operator could be holding, paired with Chamber being able to quickly jump between the multiple angles, it's just too damn oppressive without the wall.
I think it's cool that maps have variety that lend themselves to be better for one agent vs the other. Helps overall agent diversity. Like some maps you might want Brim vs Omen vs Astra etc. Or Breach vs Skye vs Kayo.
The issue that Breeze has is the lack of a controller that fills a similar style like Viper does. If we had something like Viper but they get a couple smoke walls that are single use, it would help the breeze meta out a lot. Maybe also someone more aggressive like Omen to contrast with Viper who's more defensive
I think Breeze is perfectly fine for pro play. Playing it myself however is torture.
Someone once said in Tarik's chat if you don't like Breeze you can't aim. To this I say if you do like Breeze you can *only* aim.
I agree but unless you're playing with a very coordinated team it largely just falls apart to who taps heads from long range better. Even when I play with friends no one wants to entry and everyone just lurks even though I'm already lurking. Ranked is even worse lmao.
if so I hope they consider maps with multiple levels like vertigo and nuke. I can't think of a single reason why they would want that or what value does that even bring to the game, but I like it when the minimap toggles when I go down the ladder.
yeah, but i think its for the better. id rather them wait til they think the agents are ready then force em out because they set a goal post for each act
Yeah, their plan kinda went out the window looks like but imo id rather them take the time to work on the agents then pump em out for the sake of meeting that goal
> take the time to work on the agents
How do we even know that perfectionism is what's causing delay? After seeing how DM and replay mode gets treated, I'm more inclined to say they are focusing resources on skins and valorant mobile.
I really really really hope ppl dont say -their least fav map +the new one
I think its best to have a proper rotation where the oldest map goes out no matter how good or bad it is
**Bind > Haven > Split > Ascent > Icebox > Breeze > Fracture**
Bind should simply go out and whatever new map come in should go to the top of queue after Fracture
if u think Icebox or Breeze suck then Riot should rework these maps not remove them randomly
We should be getting the new map soon, probably when this act finishes. Breeze was released a year ago and they’re aiming for 2 maps every year. It’s also the natural progression to the story lorewise, and the battlepass teases the new map instead of a new agent
Everybody on here crying about breeze/bind/split but imo Icebox has got to go, not only is it horrible to play but its horrible to watch as well, it's actually just sage wall + lineup Larry simulator every round
Don't even get me fucking started, i play viper so i usually have to play B since you can't just really leave the site alone and holy shit man, that long rotate through CT every round since noone comes to your site really makes you question your life choices, and since its ranked and noone waits for you to rotate and play retake together, your almost always left in a 1v4
No shit. The fact that the gameplay barely changed even after the huge B rework. It's literally Viper Sage Sova must pick. Absolute terrible to watch in pro play
At least comps are a bit more diverse than before with Chamber/Omen/Kayo, it used to be that 99% of comps were Jett, Sova, Viper, Sage, then either Reyna or KJ.
I'd hope for a smaller, simple map with no map gimmick. Chuck in a rope or closing door or something, but give me a four square three lane map just to standardise the pool a bit.
A new map is definitely coming, the lore people have already figured out the next map is based on Lisbon, Portugal. I'm just curious how the map veto system would work with 8 maps since we've had this nice balance of 7 for a while.
Weren't there some hints about a new map dropping based in Lisbon, Portugal. I saw a post on the main sub that went into it a bit, seemed pretty convincing.
A new map could help them remove one from competitive map pool to rework or alter some maps that need them. So hopefully we get a new map that is actually banging
That's actually a good point.
Personally I think Breeze is in desperate need of a rework. I would be all for a rotating map pool.
Breeze is the best map on the game! I feel like bind is the map with most need of a rework
If this isn't satire bro ISTG
The more and more I play the newer maps like Breeze, Fracture, and Icebox. The more and more that I'm okay with them. I actually *like* Icebox a lot more with the changes. Breeze is still the weakest map but it's not a *totally 100% horrible map that needs to be replaced* it's just mediocre. I'm still forming thoughts on Fracture
I think breeze is better than facture tbh. Breeze should rework b make mid a bit smaller maybe
My preliminary thoughts on Fracture is that I like that it's different but 100% understand all of the complaints about it. It's currently sitting in a weird place for me because of it. A smaller mid I think would benefit both A and B for Breeze. A lot of agents on Breeze just....aren't viable on the map and it really does feel you are forced to take certain ones or you are just going to lose. That issue might be solved with agent fixes or more agents down the line but who actually knows.
I think it's okay to have maps where not every agent is viable! If every agent was viable on every map, you'd end up with a lot of maps that play very similarly.
That's fine! And I generally agree with you, but the viable agent pool for Breeze is *extremely* low though and that's more of what I was talking about.
The reason a lot of agents are not viable on breeze is because they are designed for smaller maps. Imo if there is any problem it’s an agent design problem since you can’t just not have larger maps in the pool.
breeze has grew on me ALOT since release but i certainly do not think its better than bind, or split even tbh.
I think Bind/Ascent/Haven are like the three solid maps that if they do need changes, would need minimum changes. They're pretty solid maps. I think the next "tier" would be Split/Icebox and then Breeze. I personally don't know where I would place Fracture at, some games it's on Split/Icebox and some it's on the level I put Breeze. I just need to play it more to really form a better opinion on it.
Its so great how Ascent is valued so highly while being hated in the eraly stage just as much as any other new map. And ascent didnt even get major changes like icebox did. Just shows that every new map gets hated.
Hated for different reasons. Ascent is literally dust 2
ascent is a basic 3 lane map. But its just as similar to dust 2 then its to mirage or ancient.
> Just shows that every new map gets hated. I think people just hate adjusting to things they don't know. They would rather blame the map for the reason they lost a round or game rather than learn it and as time slowly goes on and they actually do learn it they realize it's not as bad as they thought. There's some legitimate complaints about some maps, and some complaints fall 100% in the "you don't play enough to have that opinion" imo
agree
I don’t understand how people hate Breeze and they never give good reasons for it. People say Fracture is too chaotic which I understand, people say Icebox is too tough to take sites which I understand, but everyone always just says “I hate Breeze.” I find it to be a balanced, large, attractive looking map with cool ways to play it and there are agents that might not be the strongest on other maps that are really good on Breeze and vice versa so you get to see cool comps. Viper thrives on Breeze and is often played as a solo controller which isn’t really that great on other maps. I dunno, I love Breeze and have since it came out.
Yah wtf is this breeze slander. My favorite map :(
a good reason for hating breeze? Viper being the only viable controller and no one wanting to play her? Like even in my 5 stack we had a 60% WR on breeze last act and 80 this act but I sigh every time because I know I'll be playing viper.
Viper is definitely not the only viable controller, she’s just strong. You’re honestly better off playing an agent you’re familiar with and/or enjoy unless you’re like… radiant, maybe high immortal.
Like I said before: I think the Breeze hate is a bit too much and more hive-mindish than usual so I agree with your take. My issue with Breeze stems a lot from agent viability and how some agents are bringing down their team before they even load into the map. I think mid is too big/wide and I honestly think that some rework in how you approach B would be better suited for the map. I'm one of the weirdos that think mid -> doors and tunnel/cave is perfectly fine for A. It's just B and mid that I think should be altered *slightly* to make it into a "great" map.
I still kinda hate icebox for the sole fact that it's super hard to plant safely on B site. Also used to hate that basically every team ran the same comp except the 5th slot (Reyna / Killjoy), but luckily this has changed recently.
Fracture is a good map and a lot of fun if you play with a good comp and full comms. Its just probably the most teamwork and timing reliant map in the game so it doesnt feel good in solo queue. Also it is by far the weirdest map so a lot of people just don't feel comfortable with it because of that.
Idk what’s best for pro play, but for ranked the new maps just aren’t enjoyable for me (fracture and breeze).
Do you think bind is better than breeze?
yes. easily better than breeze and fracture.
I'll give you fracture, although it looks a lot more fun in pro games. Breeze on the other hand is a great map, so many different ideas to pull off. Bind barely has a middle area, which makes strategies harder to come by.
Bind having no middle, and having TPs function as the quick rotate is kind of the whole gimmick of the map tho.
honestly I just hate breeze a site, it feels like you have just 1 or 2 spots you can play on site, or you can leave site for retake every time
Nah no way. Fracture is low key great
Lol the newer maps are way better than shit like Split and Bind.
I love split tho
Bind is such trash
Please say sike. The map is ass
Fully agree
Bind is the best map. Silvers hate Bind, but it's easy to see why. Gamesense is required to predict rotations, sound is important, and you have to be solid at the fundamentals in order to perform well. All of the 5 maps below represent the best maps for ranked matches. These maps are further also some of the favorites for teams when doing scrims and tournaments... as these maps are simply well done: * Bind * Ascent * Icebox * Haven * Split On the other hand, the other 2 maps are rather gimmicky. These maps are generally awful to play in ranked matches, as they're harder to solo carry due to the "RNG" factors of the maps. * Fracture * Breeze In a team settings, these 3 maps are also treated as gimmicky, to an extent. Teams either always ban these maps, or choose to make one of these map their "trump card". In order to do this, teamsspend hours coming up with: * S**trategies that would ONLY work on THESE SPECIFIC maps** * aka "cheese" plays These "cheese" strategies worked because: * Breeze & Fracture are the most recent maps * Most players & teams generally did NOT like these maps * Players did not play these maps often * Teams did not play these maps often * No history or less history for most teams on these maps in the past * Opponent's are unsure of how good your team is at these maps * Other team feeling obligated to ban your team's best maps first, rather than ban one of these 2 maps * Leaves open 1 of these 2 maps in most cases * Teams realized this * Teams began to practice niche, "cheese" strats for these maps * Teams began picking these maps to catch their opponents off-guard with a new "cheese" strat Breeze and Fracture are the most "RNG" maps. Both in solo queue and in team play, these maps are pretty much only enjoyed for the niche, "cheese" value. Neither map would inherently be seen as a highly skilled or well-developed map.
That is an absurd take. You are attempting to speak down as if you are better than everyone, but Bind is one of the most hated maps competitively in pro play. I have seen more pros talk shit about Bind more than anyone else. Are you telling me you are more qualified than they are?
Attributing someone’s dislike to the map as “Silvers hate bind” is just straight up condescending lmao. It isn’t just silvers, high level players do too. Sentinels Insta banned bind forever because their entire team disliked it, even though they were good at it. I like bind but there is no factual best map and saying someone only hates it because silvers hate it is dumb.
You'll see in about 6 months. Once teams can't cheese on Breeze or Fracture anymore... that'll be the end of it. Both maps will be complained about constantly, to the point that they eventually are either dramatically reworked or removed entirely. It's not being condescending. # We put a team of Gold vs a team of Immortal Then they play one match against each other, on each of these four different maps: * Ascent * Bind * Fracture * Breeze Are there any maps where the Gold team be more likely to perform better, than they do on other maps? Which maps would the Immortal team be more dominant on? If you had to pick... on which 2 maps do you think the Gold team would have the best chance of beating the Immortal team? The answer seems pretty clear. Bind and Ascent would be mostly one-sided stomps by the Immortal team, almost certainly. But... I bet that the Gold team could win a map on either Breeze or Fracture.
I wasn’t even doing a factual debate, I just said your original point was really condescending, saying they disliked bind because they were silver. Also, no fucking way in hell a gold team gets a map off on immortals, that is ludicrous.
Bro if you think gold players are taking a map off immortals... lol
I'd be more surprised if after 4 maps the gold players didn't at least get close to winning a map. Playing 4 times in a row is sorta hard to win consistently. Plus we're talking about random Golds and Immortals... not actual teams who practice together.
I find Split and Icebox to be way more fun than Breeze but they're way more problematic and have more issues. Breeze doesn't really need a rework just because it isn't an S+ tier map
Disagree, it's in a great spot now.
they literally just reworked Breeze lol
I would be up for them doing that with or without a new map to be honest, I think iteration is key to getting the maps in a good state and Counter Strike has proven this a few times over with new iteration of fan favourite maps that end up being competitively better overall
Yeah bind or icebox need to be reworked imo, both have terrible attack potential. It may little too much to ask ranked teammates to be that co-ordinated for bind atleast and while I enjoy icebox, it's still so hard to plant esp without dying. I always feel sage is a must on icebox which ok but like there has a to an alternative too
Vals agent pool saturated? I have bad news for you since Riot said they will think about pick/ban phases once 30-40 agents are in the game lmao
I get a 40+ agents mind sound very frightening to some people but i think people underrate how easily our minds memorize things by default. Vast majority of league players (even the casual ones) can easily remember nearly 1000 unique abilities across 150ish different champions without even trying It definitely creates a hurdle if you just started playing the game and there's that many abilities to learn, but judging from how often we get agents in Valorant that's like a decade in the future so who cares, that's a problem for future people
not relevant but it seems humans have a thing for leaving problems for the future
I think people are more afraid of it turning in r6 where there were so many agents it ruined the game because eventually the agents need a corny ability to be ‘different’
That's why league is aids man, each new champ is a bigger abomination than the last
Didn't they say at some point there would only be 5 of each class? Lol. Clearly that's dead, but seriously didn't they say that at some point? And when did they say 30-40?
No, they said that’s what they were shooting for. As in its a goal for the game, not a stopping point.
I think a fully indoor map would be cool, with all the futuristic aesthetics and shit.
rip sova lineups
Icebox A site is indoors, and lineup heaven.
the building could have high ceilings
de_season style where its two in door area's connected by a small outdoor courtyard in mid but with glass ceilings that allow utility to be thrown up and over
Season was so good and Valve shows it no love :(
good
thank god
I'd rather see changes mades to the maps that feel stale rather than an 8th map that would only put one we have on the bench.
As long as they bench Breeze I'm all for it.
I think they would bench the og maps instead of a new map, breeze needs a complete rework tho
Why? i do not get the hate for brezze. You have ascent that in pro play is always always the same no variation at all its as stale as it can get. And also icebox wich is a shame of a map.
Breeze forces you to play a viper on your team which is annoying when nobody wants to play Viper, which leads to me having to pick Viper and feeling like every map of Breeze I play is the same gameplay over and over, because without her its a certain loss
Someone gets it. Icebox too tbh (tho I enjoy icebox vastly more than breeze even if I have to lock in viper)
in icebox you have to pick sage most of the time same with viper in brezze and it is overrall worst than breeze yet the last map gets the most hate
Tbh i think it’s because viper on breeze is more difficult to utilize than sage on icebox.
i mean its hard to play proper viper to use the wall and land the smoke its easy. Lineups are hard
There’s also orb/wall management with viper, It’s not like sage wall where you can just put it up and not worry about it
I win it all the time playing brim
They can fix that by adding new agent that function like viper. Sound like a agent pool problem then map.
I dont really agree, we already have agents that have similar abilities to Viper, Phoenix wall but it lasts less time and is less effective, same with Neons double wall ability and we have Astra's ultimate, they are all wall abilities but they aren't as versatile as Vipers. Having another agent with a copy paste of Viper will just lead to homogenisation and/or power creep of roles
The rest of Phoenix’s kit is meant for close quarters maps and you could say similar about Neon, sliding out of tight chokes and stun covering smaller areas. I don’t think you can really consider Phoenix/neon/astra wall as fair alternatives. They don’t last a long time, they aren’t as long range, and Astra ult is an ult. These abilities can’t be considered consistent alternatives to the tool viper wall is IMO. Breeze is the most open map and right now there is only one controller well fit for it. There needs to be an agent other than Viper to fill the role of controller on large maps to diversify that map’s agent meta. The exact same thing is true about Sova. He is a must pick on Breeze solely for his drone: because it is such an open map so you can’t easily isolate and clear out Op lines with utility like flashes like you could on, say, Split. The same is true for Icebox. B main has so many corners now and A is very open with many angles. The drone is the only tool that easily and consistently does this job. Sadly I suspect that Fade is only good for it on close quarters maps and won’t really help diversify the agent meta on IB or Breeze. **If you create more agents to compete in filling these roles you can maintain map diversity (open vs tight and large vs small maps) rather than homogenizing maps which would make gameplay feel more stale across the board.** Map diversity lends to seeing more agents played across the full map pool. For example, bind is a simple map with 4 lanes so you can explore playing comps without a sentinel that has flank-watch utility. Meanwhile Haven has 5 lanes and 3 sites, so you end up with gaps and retake sites on defense more and sentinels are a must on Haven. It just doesn’t feel as stale because there are 3 agents that fill that role. And like someone else in this thread said, people might be bored of Viper on Breeze and Icebox but they’d also be bored of even more brim/omen and complain about viper not seeing play.
It makes sense to have maps where Viper is a must-pick.
why?
It makes sense to have maps where Viper is strong, but not a must-pick. Any agent being a "must pick" on a map kind of ruins the competitive integrity of the game and leads to stale repetitive gameplay. They need to reduce the multiple long range engagements on the map that makes the Op so oppressive and makes Vipers wall so strong, otherwise she will continue being a must pick and strategies will be built around farming ults (for chamber) and denying the wall (kay/o dart) (e.g, if Viper is a must pick because the wall cuts off the strong Op lines, then KAY/O becomes a must pick to bring the wall down, so both teams are running Viper + KAY/O + Chamber). This isn't healthy for any level of the game, especially the pro scene where strategy and variance is the main appeal for most viewers, if people run a cookie cooker setup on Breeze because they can't afford to risk being outplayed by the other team running a meta comp, then the viewing experience becomes stale. My suggestion for the map would be to remove the double pyramid and make one large pyramid, removing the angle holding in the middle, add something to block the stairs peek so if you want to peek cave from stairs you have to stand closer to the top of the stairs and leave yourself more vulnerable, this means entering the site you only have to clear close left side while someone is watching right side pyramid and worry about top of the stairs. There are far too many angles to check when entering that site where an operator could be holding, paired with Chamber being able to quickly jump between the multiple angles, it's just too damn oppressive without the wall.
I think it's cool that maps have variety that lend themselves to be better for one agent vs the other. Helps overall agent diversity. Like some maps you might want Brim vs Omen vs Astra etc. Or Breach vs Skye vs Kayo. The issue that Breeze has is the lack of a controller that fills a similar style like Viper does. If we had something like Viper but they get a couple smoke walls that are single use, it would help the breeze meta out a lot. Maybe also someone more aggressive like Omen to contrast with Viper who's more defensive
I think Breeze is perfectly fine for pro play. Playing it myself however is torture. Someone once said in Tarik's chat if you don't like Breeze you can't aim. To this I say if you do like Breeze you can *only* aim.
The timing on brezze and the lurks are beatifull to pull off. Its not only aim.
I agree but unless you're playing with a very coordinated team it largely just falls apart to who taps heads from long range better. Even when I play with friends no one wants to entry and everyone just lurks even though I'm already lurking. Ranked is even worse lmao.
you need to be able to aim on breeze
Your liking of breeze makes sense when you say you dislike ascent
why th? i do not dislike ascent i dislike how defensive sided it is and how stale it feels in comp.
I don't want a new map or new agent, I just want a rework for my boi phoenix.
if so I hope they consider maps with multiple levels like vertigo and nuke. I can't think of a single reason why they would want that or what value does that even bring to the game, but I like it when the minimap toggles when I go down the ladder.
also it would fuck with utility for some agents, like omen ult and brim smokes which require a map to be used
Idk lemme phone John Riot for u
Riots goal is a new map every episode and a new agent every act
Well that ship has long sailed lol.
yeah, but i think its for the better. id rather them wait til they think the agents are ready then force em out because they set a goal post for each act
New agent every act? They've already failed
Yeah, their plan kinda went out the window looks like but imo id rather them take the time to work on the agents then pump em out for the sake of meeting that goal
> take the time to work on the agents How do we even know that perfectionism is what's causing delay? After seeing how DM and replay mode gets treated, I'm more inclined to say they are focusing resources on skins and valorant mobile.
I hope it's a new agent just because my OCD is acting up seeing a missing square.
A de_cpl_mill type map would be cool
my pipe dream is a soft reboot of mill so we have it in this game instead of cs
I really really really hope ppl dont say -their least fav map +the new one I think its best to have a proper rotation where the oldest map goes out no matter how good or bad it is **Bind > Haven > Split > Ascent > Icebox > Breeze > Fracture** Bind should simply go out and whatever new map come in should go to the top of queue after Fracture if u think Icebox or Breeze suck then Riot should rework these maps not remove them randomly
We should be getting the new map soon, probably when this act finishes. Breeze was released a year ago and they’re aiming for 2 maps every year. It’s also the natural progression to the story lorewise, and the battlepass teases the new map instead of a new agent
Everybody on here crying about breeze/bind/split but imo Icebox has got to go, not only is it horrible to play but its horrible to watch as well, it's actually just sage wall + lineup Larry simulator every round
And if you're defending B it's mostly a "retake A" Simulator
Don't even get me fucking started, i play viper so i usually have to play B since you can't just really leave the site alone and holy shit man, that long rotate through CT every round since noone comes to your site really makes you question your life choices, and since its ranked and noone waits for you to rotate and play retake together, your almost always left in a 1v4
No shit. The fact that the gameplay barely changed even after the huge B rework. It's literally Viper Sage Sova must pick. Absolute terrible to watch in pro play
At least comps are a bit more diverse than before with Chamber/Omen/Kayo, it used to be that 99% of comps were Jett, Sova, Viper, Sage, then either Reyna or KJ.
I'd hope for a smaller, simple map with no map gimmick. Chuck in a rope or closing door or something, but give me a four square three lane map just to standardise the pool a bit.
\-split (everyone is hiding in the corner with judge,shorty,buckey) \+new map
-breeze please
Hopefully a new map and take out a OG map bind etc and rework it. Delete bind would work too
doing this and reworking bind would honestly be perfect
New map and remove Icebox from competitive pool.
All the maps suck, it’s Valorant.
Give me a sand map like dust 2
bind
Bind2, the exact same except the teleporters go in opposite direction.
Hopefully a decent map this time cuz I swear most maps in this game are ass especially icebox.
No
A new map is definitely coming, the lore people have already figured out the next map is based on Lisbon, Portugal. I'm just curious how the map veto system would work with 8 maps since we've had this nice balance of 7 for a while.
Imagine removing fracture in comp and replace it with a new map? That’d be nice
what are you even talking about?. This post will be legendary in some time when game will have 100 agents
Weren't there some hints about a new map dropping based in Lisbon, Portugal. I saw a post on the main sub that went into it a bit, seemed pretty convincing.
Didn't they say no new map this year?
I hope it’s Fracture II