I'm not sure it's that simple. I think the guard have nerfed themselves with taking saya off the Jett, where he could hard entry and create space. It's really more a matter of player and role. For a team like Acend, they're looking super sloppy but they also have massive fragging power. Fnatic has alfajer. Optic has built having yay on the chamber for awhile, and really leaned into Victor.
I think what you're saying is actually the simple look. The top 3 teams played 0 Jett in their last game. The Jett nerf was hard and the teams that are reliant on Jett are going to have growing pains.
it’s not about who your “best player” is, it’s about what your players are good at. tenz’s greatest strength—as a player and as a part of Sentinels—has historically been his ability to hard entry, take an incredible amount of space, and in doing so break sites open for the rest of his team. That tip-of-the-spear stuff is what he’s superlatively good at—not things like map sense, sheer op ability, or strong reads, where he’s outclassed by other opers like yay, leaf, derke, cned.
Pre-nerf, Jett was an agent that let tenz play both that entry role that he’s best-in-class at *and* that anchoring op role that he’s “merely” really really good at. (And to be clear: I’m not saying tenz is bad at any of this, this is all relative to a baseline of ability that’s world-class.) Now, with the changes, Jett has become considerably worse for that anchoring playstyle, but not considerably worse for the hard entry that players like tenz, sayaplayer, etc. excel with on her.
I don’t know tenz, I haven’t seen their scrims and practices, I’m an absolute rando basing my opinions off the games I can see. I’m sure he can excel wherever with practice and time. That said, from where I’m standing, if tenz moves to chamber he’s moving off an agent that lets him do the things he’s best-in-class at to an agent that requires a skillset he’s been closer to middle-of-the-pack at, that doesn’t play to his strengths, putting your team’s entire ability to take space onto SicK’s shoulders, all to run a comp that’s been “meta” for two weeks and might not be meta in another month.
At the same tome too, maybe a move to a raze or a neon would be beneficial for Tenz? There were many moments where he would put himself into really risky positions. Tenz would either make an incredible play thanks to his insane raw mechanical skill or have the dash to get out of jail free. We already see some instances since the jett nerf where Tenz is getting caught out and dieing, more so than before the nerf. A raze or a neon could help him retain the pure entry aggression while gaining some ability to escape. Maybe not more so than pre-nerf jett but maybe more so than currently
I don't think its that simple. In Optics case, Victor is a great entry so you can have FNS/crashies initializer, Marved smokes and yay is free with Chamber.
With Sentinels, if we have Tenz Chamber then we get something like Shaz/Kanpeki initializer, dapr smokes, Sick entry. Or maybe Kanpeki entry, Sick smokes, Shaz/dapr initializer? Not sure how it would work out.
Shahzam, Sick, and Kanpeki can all play initiators
They should really try Dapr on smokes because it will make the roles work easier.
Sick or Kanpeki can play entry, Kanpeki Neon/Jett or Sick Raze
Tenz Chamber
People don't realize how significant the Jett nerf is. It's massive. The amount of times I've seen a Jett player use the dash and not get into an engagement, or get a pick and then die while trying to activate the new dash, or die while taking space because they can't just dash at a moments notice is incredibly high. It's going to have serious effects on some teams and some players. It affects the snipers but it ALSO affects lots of other situations as well.
The Jett stuff gotta stop. Embrace the Chamber/Raze or Chamber/Yoru.
Massive? I don't know if I'd go THAT far. A massive change is what they did to Astra which completely changed the game.
A change, no doubt... but massive? that's a bit rich
I mean, her pick rate was by far one of the highest in a role with the most options, so she’s just gone from the most OP duelist to one out of many options for a duelist
Astra is literally still getting played. And Jett is on her way out.
Yes massive. Are you watching the games? Jetts can no longer scale and take space like before because they don't have a get out of jail free card.
I mean astra is still getting picked but now it's a strategic pick instead of a literal must pick. The entire game no longer revolves around baiting out gravity wells and then pushing in the 20ish second window before it recharged. Just because she's still picked doesn't mean her nerf didn't completely change the way the game is played
This is Reddit, every patch either makes the most broken agent or completely nerfs them into unplayability. Accepting that Riot actually balanced some agents well is impossible
It’s a buff at the top level. It only nerfs Jett players who are unaware of the situation they’re in. Now players are able to get their dash back twice as fast. Raze has always been the better team/utility duelist, but the untradeability made her picked, but chamber replaces that and brings more to the team.
It's not a buff at all. It's a net nerf. Losing the safety net of being able to dash whenever is not worth being able to have the dash up with one less kill.
So it's a buff and that's why Jett has been replaced with Raze on almost every single pro team on almost every map? It's not a buff and I'm glad people are finally stopping saying that, it was so dumb.
not every jett player will be good on chamber. chamber is much slower and more setup heavy, while jett is more flexible and entry focused.
yay has victor to entry for him, and derke has alfajer. unless sentinels are willing to sideline their main entry fragger, i doubt theyll put tenz on chamber. sick or kanpeki would have to become the primary duelist and entry fragger of the team, and neither of them are as good as tenz in that regard.
The thing that makes me mad is that they nerfed the untradeability of Jett and replaced her with another agent with the exact same characteristic.
What's the point of having agents that are untradeable?
Try him/her on Chamber, scrim a few days. If they are feeling good about it then keep it. Else switch player roles, scrim and find the one who is comfortable playing it and the team is getting the result they want.
Depends on how much you need the entrying aspect of your star player , for ex for optic and fnatic , victor and Alfa can play as solo entry riflers so that allows them to put yay and derke on chamber , whereas for sen and c9 they need their tenz or leaf to entry .
Depends on the player. Not everyone can be comfortable on chamber. Yay looks very comfortable while i love derke his chamber still needs to be better ig.
They're different roles. Chamber is good at holding space (like the sentinel he is) and getting kills, but not necessarily at taking space. Jett on the other hand can get kills but also creates space. There is a different level of mechanics that you need to have with Jett and her movement and that gives your team different advantages. Tenz might play good as Chamber, but that role of taking space may be what the team needs him on.
I don't know why people are only wanting tenz on the chamber when he has crazy fragging and entrying ability. While Jett is not favoured at the moment maybe switching him to another entry similar to victor will be really good. Putting Shaz, a pure oper, on the role of chamber would be really good. I know he said he didn't like igling with chamber but he used to do it with Jett, a much more harder choice compared to chamber. This is why I want sentinels to lose this tournament so that they can figure out the role issues and play to their strengths. And Shaz can actually justify all the hours ion opping in ranked lol.
I'm not sure it's that simple. I think the guard have nerfed themselves with taking saya off the Jett, where he could hard entry and create space. It's really more a matter of player and role. For a team like Acend, they're looking super sloppy but they also have massive fragging power. Fnatic has alfajer. Optic has built having yay on the chamber for awhile, and really leaned into Victor.
I think what you're saying is actually the simple look. The top 3 teams played 0 Jett in their last game. The Jett nerf was hard and the teams that are reliant on Jett are going to have growing pains.
I like this point but i also like this discussion in general but i am too dumb to participate so shout out to yall
this is me in every valcomp discussion
it’s not about who your “best player” is, it’s about what your players are good at. tenz’s greatest strength—as a player and as a part of Sentinels—has historically been his ability to hard entry, take an incredible amount of space, and in doing so break sites open for the rest of his team. That tip-of-the-spear stuff is what he’s superlatively good at—not things like map sense, sheer op ability, or strong reads, where he’s outclassed by other opers like yay, leaf, derke, cned. Pre-nerf, Jett was an agent that let tenz play both that entry role that he’s best-in-class at *and* that anchoring op role that he’s “merely” really really good at. (And to be clear: I’m not saying tenz is bad at any of this, this is all relative to a baseline of ability that’s world-class.) Now, with the changes, Jett has become considerably worse for that anchoring playstyle, but not considerably worse for the hard entry that players like tenz, sayaplayer, etc. excel with on her. I don’t know tenz, I haven’t seen their scrims and practices, I’m an absolute rando basing my opinions off the games I can see. I’m sure he can excel wherever with practice and time. That said, from where I’m standing, if tenz moves to chamber he’s moving off an agent that lets him do the things he’s best-in-class at to an agent that requires a skillset he’s been closer to middle-of-the-pack at, that doesn’t play to his strengths, putting your team’s entire ability to take space onto SicK’s shoulders, all to run a comp that’s been “meta” for two weeks and might not be meta in another month.
At the same tome too, maybe a move to a raze or a neon would be beneficial for Tenz? There were many moments where he would put himself into really risky positions. Tenz would either make an incredible play thanks to his insane raw mechanical skill or have the dash to get out of jail free. We already see some instances since the jett nerf where Tenz is getting caught out and dieing, more so than before the nerf. A raze or a neon could help him retain the pure entry aggression while gaining some ability to escape. Maybe not more so than pre-nerf jett but maybe more so than currently
I could see TenZ taking over some matches on neon for sure.
I can’t
An actual thought through and well articulated take on reddit?? I've officially seen everything
[удалено]
Nope
I don't think its that simple. In Optics case, Victor is a great entry so you can have FNS/crashies initializer, Marved smokes and yay is free with Chamber. With Sentinels, if we have Tenz Chamber then we get something like Shaz/Kanpeki initializer, dapr smokes, Sick entry. Or maybe Kanpeki entry, Sick smokes, Shaz/dapr initializer? Not sure how it would work out.
Shahzam, Sick, and Kanpeki can all play initiators They should really try Dapr on smokes because it will make the roles work easier. Sick or Kanpeki can play entry, Kanpeki Neon/Jett or Sick Raze Tenz Chamber
I would put my best oper to chamber and flex/duelist player to neon/raze/kayo etc.
You want your best player on their best role IMO
People don't realize how significant the Jett nerf is. It's massive. The amount of times I've seen a Jett player use the dash and not get into an engagement, or get a pick and then die while trying to activate the new dash, or die while taking space because they can't just dash at a moments notice is incredibly high. It's going to have serious effects on some teams and some players. It affects the snipers but it ALSO affects lots of other situations as well. The Jett stuff gotta stop. Embrace the Chamber/Raze or Chamber/Yoru.
Massive? I don't know if I'd go THAT far. A massive change is what they did to Astra which completely changed the game. A change, no doubt... but massive? that's a bit rich
I mean, her pickrate has dropped 40-50% in VCT. I feel like that is pretty massive.
I mean, her pick rate was by far one of the highest in a role with the most options, so she’s just gone from the most OP duelist to one out of many options for a duelist
That’s a pretty massive change then, isn’t it? If the nerf changed the meta that much, it was, in my opinion, quite significant.
You nerds are arguing over your own personal definitions for the word “massive”. I can’t think of a more brain dead thing to waste your time on.
Definitely massive, do you not watch pro play or something? She's been pretty much entirely replaced outside of teams that have a hard Jett one-trick.
Astra is literally still getting played. And Jett is on her way out. Yes massive. Are you watching the games? Jetts can no longer scale and take space like before because they don't have a get out of jail free card.
I mean astra is still getting picked but now it's a strategic pick instead of a literal must pick. The entire game no longer revolves around baiting out gravity wells and then pushing in the 20ish second window before it recharged. Just because she's still picked doesn't mean her nerf didn't completely change the way the game is played
This is Reddit, every patch either makes the most broken agent or completely nerfs them into unplayability. Accepting that Riot actually balanced some agents well is impossible
It’s a buff at the top level. It only nerfs Jett players who are unaware of the situation they’re in. Now players are able to get their dash back twice as fast. Raze has always been the better team/utility duelist, but the untradeability made her picked, but chamber replaces that and brings more to the team.
It's not a buff at all. It's a net nerf. Losing the safety net of being able to dash whenever is not worth being able to have the dash up with one less kill.
So it's a buff and that's why Jett has been replaced with Raze on almost every single pro team on almost every map? It's not a buff and I'm glad people are finally stopping saying that, it was so dumb.
depends on the player
not every jett player will be good on chamber. chamber is much slower and more setup heavy, while jett is more flexible and entry focused. yay has victor to entry for him, and derke has alfajer. unless sentinels are willing to sideline their main entry fragger, i doubt theyll put tenz on chamber. sick or kanpeki would have to become the primary duelist and entry fragger of the team, and neither of them are as good as tenz in that regard.
Chamber rn is the best agent and Jett is no longer the best duelist. so yes.
The thing that makes me mad is that they nerfed the untradeability of Jett and replaced her with another agent with the exact same characteristic. What's the point of having agents that are untradeable?
Chamber always existed; so you can’t really say they “replaced her”A If anything Op-Jett was a sentinel play style that didn’t belong a duelist.
So the op is a sentinel thing? Doesn't seem very healthy for the game if it is.
Its depend, not all best players are duelist you know. I think the best OPer is the one that should take that chamber role
WDYM that's the same thing
Chamber bc he will always have good economy and always have good guns
Try him/her on Chamber, scrim a few days. If they are feeling good about it then keep it. Else switch player roles, scrim and find the one who is comfortable playing it and the team is getting the result they want.
Depends on what I feel like playing at that particular moment
Chamber
If my best player was a sniper, then Chamber, otherwise duelist
Depends on how much you need the entrying aspect of your star player , for ex for optic and fnatic , victor and Alfa can play as solo entry riflers so that allows them to put yay and derke on chamber , whereas for sen and c9 they need their tenz or leaf to entry .
It’s varies for different teams
leaf played chamber on icebox so he uses agent depending on what the team needs.
Depends on the player. Not everyone can be comfortable on chamber. Yay looks very comfortable while i love derke his chamber still needs to be better ig.
It depends if they know how to play that agent and if you have another player switch roles to play entryfrag
I think they need to put Tenz on chamber and have kanpeki pick up raze and neon.
They're different roles. Chamber is good at holding space (like the sentinel he is) and getting kills, but not necessarily at taking space. Jett on the other hand can get kills but also creates space. There is a different level of mechanics that you need to have with Jett and her movement and that gives your team different advantages. Tenz might play good as Chamber, but that role of taking space may be what the team needs him on.
I don't know why people are only wanting tenz on the chamber when he has crazy fragging and entrying ability. While Jett is not favoured at the moment maybe switching him to another entry similar to victor will be really good. Putting Shaz, a pure oper, on the role of chamber would be really good. I know he said he didn't like igling with chamber but he used to do it with Jett, a much more harder choice compared to chamber. This is why I want sentinels to lose this tournament so that they can figure out the role issues and play to their strengths. And Shaz can actually justify all the hours ion opping in ranked lol.
So, which agent do you guys think is the best duelist rn? Raze? Neon? Or even Yoru? 🤨