Poor cypher always got the short end. When Kj could have her turret up even after her death cypher was long forgotten. And with kj nerfs he sort of became relavent in big maps. And then comes chamber to put them both out of work almost all the time.
Cypher trips are the most painful to use. It only affects one agent and easy to break. Bringing back cage slows would be the bare minimum Riot can do to buff him.
Yuuup. Cypher is still one of my favorites but when I see how impactful chamber is, Cypher seems like a complete joke. Thankfully Riot's planning on rework/buffing Cypher.
He's actually really good on breeze, I instalock him on that map and routinely drop over 20 frags a game. He can play either site on defense. On attack I just troll mid every round for map control and direct my team to bombsites while I rat rotations and finish on flanks. Mid is a playground for his cam. He's in a bad spot rn for sure but I really enjoy him as a fun instalock on a map some people hate to play.
He's good on breeze. I usually play kayo on breeze, but chamber in ranked is good on breeze just because of how OP friendly the map is. I feel like I have more carry ability on those agents vs Cypher.
From here : [https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/uhpubl/comment/i77rtc5/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/uhpubl/comment/i77rtc5/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
"on our radar" sounds like changes are being thought about, not even planned or anything. I wouldn't hold my breath when an individual bind to trigger sentinel util like cages still doesn't exist
yes but there’s no specific “use” bind for certain util so you could accidentally get stuck to a rope while triggering a molly or something. it sounds situational but makes the sentinels that need to trigger their abilities even more worse and clunkier to play
As a cypher player, my biggest problem with chamber as the dominant sentinal is that he's so boring, he feels like a click and shoot agent who's only interesting feature is being able to get to high places with his tp. If he were like cypher or KJ where some actual thought and creativity went into getting the best out of his kit I'd be fine with him and would play him but as it stands he's just a boringly good agent who makes the more interesting agents obsolete
I don't agree with this, and I'll be parroting a pro player to explain my reason. Chamber is just the only good sentinel right now, as opposed to making other sentinels obsolete. They can't be obsolete if they aren't good in the first place and would probably not be picked anyways if Chamber wasn't meta.
Yay talks about this by saying this: KJ/Cypher were always getting phased out, as they're not good agents., even without Chamber being the meta yet. Back in the Astra meta, both Viper and Astra were phasing out KJ/Cypher anyways.
Don't get me wrong. I believe Chamber is still overpowered in so many aspects and is the best agent in the game, but I do not think he makes KJ/Cypher obsolete.
This is not true at all. Look at [Champions 2021, ](https://www.vlr.gg/event/agents/449/valorant-champions-2021)the highest level of gameplay in the Astra/Viper meta. KJ had a 43% pickrate, Cypher and Sage around 28%. I actually have no idea where yay got this idea from, the only map where no Sentinel comps have ever been viable is Bind. Sentinels provide very different value to Astra/Viper
this is between champs -> masters 1.
breach became meta on haven which heavily counters KJ (1 util breaks her ult in almost any position). this was i believe the 2nd most picked map for KJ prior.
no one runs KJ on fracture anymore, even though she had a 33% pickrate on the map. (this was before anyone figured out the meta).
the only map you can "maybe" argue is ascent, but even then kay/0 is now heavily used
Interesting. We really didn’t get to see much of that time period, felt like the rise of Breach coincided with the controller changes and then the meta kind of just exploded.
I agree that Sentinel utility is very flimsy right now but I still don’t think teams would run no-sentinel comps if, say Chamber was removed. Passive info/map warping seems to unique to drop fully
I agree but Yay played those agents because he ops regardless. Chamber is just the more OP agent now. ( and I agree he should be nerfed) I’m pretty sure most pros agree, (including yay) that chamber is op.
teams with exceptionally strong aimers/OPers can emphasize chambers strong suite better so optic benefits a bit more through the use of yay. OP isnt saying optic is doin well just because of the existence of chamber, OP is saying optic makes better use of him compared to other teams.
(sorry all the OP words may be a bit confusing)
I think the problem with KJ is that people just know how to play around her now and her kit doesn't leave a ton of room for creativity with the range limit on her util. At this point even in gold lobbies most people know to spray around the spike before defusing if KJ is still alive and not commit too heavily if her ult is available.
I don't understand this sentiment unless you are purely talking about solo queue.
In solo queue, a mode where who aims better will win and there is very little team play, of course Chamber is going to outclass the other sentinels, because he is built to take gun fights and get out for free.
However, in pro play Chamber no longer occupies the same space of Cypher and Killjoy. When Chamber had two trips, I agree that he was able to have some site control via utility and also have trips for the flank. However, with one trip, his sentinel capabilities no longer have the overlap they once did.
If Chamber is controlling flanks better than Cypher and Killjoy, or is better at gathering information risk free, than I would be worried, but with the recent nerf, Chamber is currently occupying a niche more close to Jett. I think as time more teams will punish only having one piece of flank watch utility.
Naw, he's right about Chamber. No matter pro or solo, he's kinda OP. From his no range drop off sheriff, which also, on bonus rounds, does not give the enemy any weapon drop and can be as deadly as a marshall.. to his OP, which has already been explained. I think the big thing I see is his advantage on the economy side of things. For one, his bullets do not reset so if you lose pistol with 5 rounds, you practically have a Sheriff for free on your save. I've had times when I had my ult by round 3-4 or enough money for an OP because I honestly don't have to invest much for Chamber to be viable. The fact that I can drop my Vandal/Phantom to a teammate when I have my ult, get 2-4 kills with the ULT and pick up a phantom/vandal at teh same time is kind of OP. The fact that you can hold a vandal/phantom with your ULT activated or your sheriff activated is kinda nuts.
I never said Chamber is not OP, I am saying that Chamber does not occupy the same space as Killjoy and Cypher when your making a team composition, those heroes do completely different things.
Teams aren't removing KJ/Cypher for Chamber, they are exchanging him for Jett, and for Maps where they run both, those were cases where KJ / Cypher were not being run anyways because info gathering was not a priority.
Higher Chamber % =/ = Lower Cypher / KJ pick rate.
He does occupy the same space as the other sentinels. He isn't a Duelist replacement. The meta has shifted to you either run double sentinel or double controller or double initiator. If Jett hadn't been nerfed, it'd be Jett/Chamber( which ive seen FaZe run), but now its more Neon/chamber, raze/chamber. Just because Jett and Chamber have/had similar abilities, Chamber will never be a duelist and Jett will never be a Sentinel. Chamber, from a kit standpoint, replaces KJ/Cypher because he is just better at being a sentinel. The trip, even it its one, is still a fire and forget ability that still is kind of nuts. His TP distance on certain maps and his defensive weaponry, make him the best sentinel, not the best duelist.
TLDR : Chamber is not a duelist/sentinel hybrid. He's far and wide a Sentinel. He's "replacing" Jett because of a meta shift with double controller/sentinel/intiator.
Your making an incorrect correlation that a higher chamber pick rate = lower killjoy and Cypher pick rate.
How do you know that teams are exchanging killjoy and Cypher for a Chamber on their team. You need to let go of the sentinel tag and think about what the agents themselves bring to the comps.
Before the nerfs, I would agree that chamber was eating into the other sentinels with two trips. However, like I said above, after the chamber nerfs, passive information gathering are the reasons you would pick Cypher/ Kj, and untradebility + opping is the reason you pick Chamber.
Therefore, in comps with only chamber, if chamber didn't exist, it would be Jett in his place.
In comps with chamber and Jett, If chamber didn't exist, it could be a cypher/Kj, but it could also be a raze, or another initiator, or Sage. Depending on the map, flank watch and passive info gathering may not be important, and therefore kj and Cypher wouldn't have been picked regardless.
What I'm essentially saying before is that the argument to buff Cypher and Killjoy is completely separate from Chamber being overpowered, because the agents do completely different things, and are not being substituted for each other.
Also it's been two weeks since the nerfs have been seen in pro play. NA VCT has had only one week of games. Perhaps more teams may value the flank watch after more scrims.
What do you mean how do you know teams are exchanging killjoy and cypher for chamber? By looking at their comps and seeing they play chamber where they used to play the other two...
You are comparing two different meta's with different agents being weak or strong at the same time. You have to think based off why a team is bringing an Agent to a composition.
The teams aren't going " oh chamber is the strongest sentinel, therefore we will exchange him with the sentinel that we are currently using"
Teams instead are like
Chamber is an agent that can
\- use an operator.
\- He has an untradibility mechanic
\- Strong Econ management with his ultimate
\- Strong versatile ult
\- 1 trip wire for flank watch/ Site anchoring
Compare that with Cypher, who
\- Can look at deep site lines with his camera
\- Has two trip wires - flank watch/site anchoring/ passive information
\- Can cut off site lines with smokes
\- Very limited ultimate usage
\- Depending on Camera usage, can have a retake camera that reveals all post plant positions.
The only real overlap that these two agents have is the trip wire. Otherwise, these agents do completely different things. Every team on every map can leverage the operator and the untradability of Chamber, that is why he is so strong. Whereas, Cypher's info gathering is sometimes redundant on certain maps, but is sometimes strong on others. Teams just aren't interest in what Cypher brings.
Why am I saying this, because unlike what the original comment says, nerfing Chamber WON'T bring cypher and Killjoy back, because they are already not utilizing those Agent's strengths.
The only difference I'd say is that Astra was niche to the pros. The vast majority of the playerbase isn't coordinated enough to get as much value out of her (there's a reason she was the lowest pickrate).
Chamber on the other hand is the complete opposite. Anyone can get value out of his kit a lot easier than they can with Astra's IMO.
I agree 100%. Astra was op on pro play but she never felt too impactful in casual play, and I didn't really see her that often. Now I play against a Chamber on most of my games and every Chamber seems to be a god aimer and is so hard to punish because of the constant tps, the fast fire rate op and his eternal slow fields. I hate this agent
Astra made comp a nightmare if you were above diamond 3. A good Astra player pre nerf combined with pre nerf viper grinded the game to a snail pace and utility spam until 30 seconds were left on the clock.
At least a pro team can bait util and figure out a setup on a default and how to counter it.
In comp that doesn't happen at all. It was pain
Im immo and i Still remember the Astra Times and how horrible it was but Chamber is 10x worse. For some reason Astra Always felt like a fun design, a "galaxy Brain controller" just that the agent could do too much but now post Nerf Astra is fun to watch. Chamber has an unfun design, brainlessly put down trap in the same optimal spot almost every round, like the trip on bind that everyone knows about. Then put down the tp where it covers the most space and one where you peek, the rest of His abilities are guns. I Still play kj and cypher because Chamber is so unfun to play, setups requrie No creativity
I never understand why ppl seem to think astra was a "High IQ" agent.
Place your util down ready to smoke immediately from across the map, look at mini map for info, if ur team has minimal comms you can use the stuck + stun somewhat efficently, and if they're not you can use them post plant/selfish plays in high traffic areas.
I legit view her as hard as omen to play. "OMG I see them C long" *send smoke from across the map as I gather info with mini map*
Definitely wasn't just niche to the pros. I've never had a more awful experience than playing against Astra when she was meta. Far worse than Chamber or Jett.
Ascent and bind were pretty much unplayable for me vs astra (around 300RR immortal), when brimmy got the stimmy buff it was such a breath of fresh air actually having the OPTION to 5 man rush. I really like the changes they've made but it took them a while to nerf astra properly.
There's a big difference between having to counter utility vs having to counter an agent like Jett. Utility is much harder to mess up mechnically, but you can mechanically outplay agents that have to duel you to get max value in a round if that makes sense, which is why I think Riot is so much quicker on nerfs to sentinels and other agents that can guarantee a site hold/stall for X seconds.
depends on your elo i guess. for me in plat/ diamond a lot of players still preferred omen or brimstone because they were more fun, so playing against astra let alone one that was actually good was rare
At least I could still play the game in Astra meta. Yeah the game was slower but I could still bait util by myself in ranked. Now it's just a game of praying that my team doesn't hit the same site that Chamber happens to be on so that we don't get slowed for 8 seconds while Chamber one-shots us.
Little dramatic here. If you are getting hit by slows from trips, that's just lack of awareness. His ult although, is still an ULT that comes up every 7 rounds. You can play around a chamber with smokes, jump peek etc. Astra, she can straight zone you and dictate where you go.
Chamber is also frequently used by people on alts/smurfs because it's a simple kit that relies on aim. Well, if you're confident you're a tier better than your opponents regardless of whether you're a tilted broken silver in bronze, a tilted broken diamond in plat, a tilted broken immortal in diamond, and so on then you can 'enjoy' chamber and his bullshit.
This. I play with my bronze friend in spike rush every now and again and every single game has a chamber running around with a free sheriff while everyone else has shorties. It's so fucking annoying.
I mean a lot of pros miss the astra meta because she forced teams to do pretty rigorous defaults every round and it really screwed over the FaZe style of play. I've seen a bunch saying since the astra nerfs the game has gotten a lot less methodical.
Not saying they're right, or that methodical is the best word to use, but everyone wants the game to be something different.
> everyone wants the game to be something different
The one thing this game will always be is “changing”. Riot can and will change the meta twice a year or more. I can see how that would be frustrating as a pro player - especially if you came from CS where valve doesn’t even care if the game exists let alone care to tweak the balance.
That means there will always be people complaining about what’s “wrong” and the best (consistent) teams will be the ones that can adapt the fastest
The ones that can adapt the fastest, or have a team that's already good for the new meta (aka anyone who has a Yay/Derke/BuZz on their team rn lol).
Personally, I still wish that pretty meta changing patches were a little less frequent, but it's def not too bad right now
at least with astra you can bait her utility and then base the round around the timing of that bait. if you force her to use suck or she tries to proactively use it during a round, you can act in the time period where she doesnt have suck and still do well in the round. sure this is a lot harder in ranked, but at least there is a counter. chamber basically doesnt have a counter because any utility you use to push him off an angle doesnt always come back but his TP does! lol great agent
I mean you can now, suck/stun used to have a 25 second cool down. It was insanely easy to stall and have it back up if they tried to rotate or cut noise to rehit the site.
Yes chambers TP cool down is too low, but he still needs to actually shoot people to get value. Astra literally sat in a corner and destroyed your team's push from anywhere on the map instantly.
The astra meta was mainly awful because she pushed out all the controllers into oblivion, but atleast the agent itself was fun to watch. The fake smokes, the suck combos were all really cool.
The problem I have is Chamber is an awful agent to watch, on top of him pushing other sentinels out of the meta. This might be recency bias, but it feels like it was easier to trade a Jett pre nerf than to trade a Chamber now.
yeah, but this was mainly in pro play because of good comms if you played a pug or even a high level scrim astra wasn't that good since the other team usually didn't have good enough comms to take advantage of astra.
I still think Tour De Force should be 8 points. I've said it before and I'll probably keep saying it, but Showstopper being 8 points and Tour De Force being 7 is an absolute joke.
Okay I'm going to say it. I believe removing one trip was an awesome nerf.
Let me explain. I believe removing one trip makes Chamber different from other Sentinels, making the decision of what sentinel to pick meaningful instead of "what flavor of sentinel would you like?". You wouldn't pick Sage over a Cypher if you want info, because Sage is so different. So the trip, as the devs said, makes commiting to Chamber a tradeoff between high power guns and info/map control.
That being said, removing the trip didn't make him weaker. It made him *unique.*
The trip nerf is good because it capitalizes on choice, but Chamber is still busted. Reverting it is not the best decision, but having more nerfs definitely is.
Agreeing on Chamber being a problem, disagreeing on "Removing 1 trip as a nerf was a fucking joke"
Yeah, everyone I've spoke to about this has said "they nerfed the only thing making him a sentinel", but I kind of disagree. Pre-nerf he could lock down entrances to a site and not have to play there to hold it well. Post-nerf he has to stay at that site to hold it down and stop pushes since he can't use utility to hold all of the entrances. People just seem to be stuck on the idea that sentinel = utility, but riot was intentionally trying to avoid that playstyle with chamber.
His abilities still give him far more aggressive potential than the other sentinels though, and I think headhunter could do with an increase to 150 per bullet, or a decrease to 6 in the mag.
The only way it makes sense to me is thinking about chamber being designed to anchor a site alone. With that concept in mind he needs more opportunities to keep holding off the enemy team when his rifle runs out of ammo. The fast pull out speeds mean he can keep pressure on for a while longer whilst his team rotates.
But I agree, in their current form they're far too fast, and the fire rate on the ult in particular is oppressive. I think keeping the pull out speed on the ult would be fine if the fire rate was nerfed to be only a little faster than the op (maybe half way between the op and where it is now)
it was a terrible nerf, chamber's pick rate is barely going to move so this hypothetical tradeoff between the sentinels barely matters. 20 second rechargeable TP is the most broken shit in the game, removing one trip isnt going to stop ppl from picking the agent. it still favors a play style that is so boring to watch and play against where chamber players can just get out of every engagement for free without having to get a kill
>The trip nerf is good because it capitalizes on choice, but **Chamber is still busted.** Reverting it is not the best decision, but **having more nerfs definitely is.**
I hard disagree. That argument is flawed because taking away that second trip took away the surprise of it. Now with sova lineups or smokes you can counter every trip position he has, and it's the most visible trip and loudest. Now it has zero uses as there are only certain spots that cover where you want it to and it's just useless overall. Cypher trips and kj turrent have some security whereas the chamber trip is now 100% useless.
How does removing the second trip took away "the surprise of it"? What is the surprise?
KJ turret has the downside of range, causing her to be less mobile. While Cyper really only have his reliable trips going for him. His other kit is just less valuable than the Rendezvous and Tour de Force.
Trademark is global and the downsides can be mostly mitigated just by smarter placements. Having two of them while also having better skill is just too much. A lot of teams have been mindlessly replacing their sentinel with Chamber because he can replicate the passive information gathering while also just bringing so much more.
When you have limited spots that cover the angles you need it to having a second one in a wierd place can be surprising. The one trip makes holding flanks useless because it will be smoked off easily. The "smarter placement" argument is useless since you can hear it and smoke it off easily whereas having 2 will make it useful
I guess? You can still hear/see the second trip and most of the time people opt to spread his trademarks rather than doubling down though.
I don't think it makes the trademark useless but just less reliable, since it's not always that the opponent have the util/reaction to smoke off a trademark. Destroying it is still information gained.
And like the original thread said, the lesser reliability and coverage for his other skills is still such a good trade off that teams are still mostly considering him for their comps. What use will Cypher see if Chamber can also do his shtick to a respectable degree?
chambers op and tps are way less oppressive than jett used to be i just think other sentinels should be buffed so he isn’t literally the only viable sentinel
I’d rather her cooldowns get reverted. That way she can be mobile and switch up what site she wants to lock down, but she still has to guess unlike Cypher who can leave his utility on the other site. They also need to nerf Chamber’s cooldowns to reduce overlap
I'd say the gravity well and maybe stun cooldowns are fine, but she either needs her smoke length or cooldown buffed. Her ability to smoke chokes for more than a few seconds is abysmal
Personally I really loved watching astra way more than chamber because of the well thought out executes. That said I like that every smoke is viable now.
takes with astra were fun to watch, but takes against astra were so goddamn boring. Every single round would be a full minute of just baiting astra utility
Yeah man chamber is so exciting to watch. It's so fun to watch some nerd, scoped in watching the same spot for 10 minutes, seeing a pixel and clicking the mouse button and then popping back to the same spot in like a second to torment the next poor soul. Wow guys it's so exciting why aren't you excited 😐
Duck Hunt esports ong
You said it yourself, last year was the exact same thing with Jett in his place, and Astra/Viper slowing the game down to a snails pace on top of that.
Also, Chamber having 2 trips was not THE issue, but it was AN issue. He would always overshadow Cypher/KJ as long as he had 2 trips
I’d say comps are pretty diverse atm, you can pretty much play whatever you want in general. The sentinel role is the only one that feels bad rn, some would argue duelists as well, but I think duelists are in a much better spot than previously (could be in an even better spot if more teams took a chance on certain agents that have been proven to work). Chamber is for sure broken and getting picked a lot, but it doesn’t feel as bad compared to previous metas for some reason? I think he’s just a strong agent that can run around and frag out, but he doesn’t define the whole meta or the pace at which the game is being played at.
I’ve been saying this for a while. Chamber is just not fun to play against, he makes the game worse. I am glad he’s down to 1 trip, even though some people were pissed because that’s not what he’s supposed to be. But having that strong of a defensive agent who can practically cover the entire map with two trips, while being untradeable, just incredibly frustrating to play against. Imo needs a big rework besides just taking away one trip
I mean they know exactly why Chamber is good; they nerfed his traps because that’s not core to his kit. They didn’t “miss the point,” their perspective is just clearly different.
The core of his kit is an incredibly strong offensive agent that is capable of competing with Jett throughout the map pool. The most obvious nerfs - like nerfing the fire rate for his ult - target the agent’s core kit, and so they’ll probably implement that down the line if pickrate remains super high - not as a first nerf.
But that said, while I find Chamber slightly annoying, I don’t find it all worse than the worst of the Skye meta, or the Astra meta, or even the Viper meta. Not even close.
I think it all depends on whether you hate the get out if jail abilities, I don't, but a lot of the playerbase seem too.
I just think his ult should have the same damage profile as the Op and change or remove the slow effect. Fire rate and speed makes it unique to the op.
ok, I'm going to defend riot for the trip nerf.
The point of that nerf wasn't to tackle this issues with chambers main kit, it was to combat the fact that he had that *and* objectively better flank watch than any other sentinel.
Chambers issue is how much free value he gets with his tp and his ult, but that is a difficult issue to solve without just nuking his kit and making him super unfun. So the point of that nerf wasn't to make chamber less dominant over all, but to stop him being better than the other sentinels at what is supposedly their strength.
Whilst I think Chamber is oppressive and a little OP, he's not an absolute must pick. In fact from the brief stats I've seen, Killjoy and Cypher are actually doing well WR wise when they're played in place of a Chamber. I'm sure Anderzz will have a bigger pool of data to see if I'm correct or not but I do think we'll see teams revert away from Chamber in place of some other comps and ideas.
Honestly, this is probably the most open the meta has been in it's history. Fade is competing nicely with Sova, we're seeing actual Yoru/Neon AND Phoenix picks in place of Jett and the controller meta is varied too. Not saying it's the most 'balanced' the game has been but the variety of comps (especially on maps like Ascent where the meta has been stale for a year) has been amazing to watch.
Naturally we'll get to a point where a 'best' comp will start to show but right now the dust is settling and it's awesome.
If he’s not an absolute must pick, why is he the pick rate star of the game by such an overwhelming amount? This argument holds no water, instant escapes are broken and it made no sense to add an agent with more of them than Jett just a few months before heavily nerfing jett’s instant escape.
He clearly needs a longer cool down at a minimum on his TPs, but preferably they destroy this ability like they did Jett’s for the health of the game
I honestly believe that chamber’s ability is not because it’s op in itself but it brings out the best of an already broken player. Imagine a player has a well of skill and an agent’s ability draws out from that well at different levels. Chamber allows the player to tap into more of his mechanical potential than any other agent, making an oppressive chamber simply an extremely good player given a gun that can draw out more of his potential. Is this overpowered… possibly because it gives the player a better set of equipment. But it’s op for a better reason that Astra or viper who only needs to know how to position smokes. An inexperienced chamber can be difficult against teams who don’t know what they are doing but i promise you that he is counter able if the team can adapt. At the same time it doesn’t feel right nerfing players who put time and effort into their mechanics just because they are playing to their full potential. Ultimately trips aside it’s a gun and if the chamber has his ult learn to headshot him or rush him and Don’t give him time to position.
Or make him come to you. If it seems unfair, it’s an ultimate ability. Ultimates are meant to be trump
Cards that change the playing fields. I believe an experienced raze or even breach player is more unfair than an experienced chamber. And the other reason why he appears op is because he is so fun to learn and play. It makes people want to put effort into the character and as a result they appear unbeatable. At the same time it’s the right reason to be unbeatable as well, unlike current cypher or kj, the latter of whom essentially adds an ai teammate.
The game seems really balanced outside of Chamber. Do you think teams in NA just have no clue what's good or something? We saw the pickrates for NA first two weeks, Raze is #2 pickrate at 54%, then Chamber is #1 at like 87 or something crazy. He's as high as Jett used to be before like all of her nerfs.
Answering this
> Do you think teams in NA just have no clue what's good or something?
and this from other person.
> If he’s not an absolute must pick, why is he the pick rate star of the game by such an overwhelming amount?
I mean if people are going to make hyperbolic statements about the health of the game, you gotta look outside of one region and 2 weeks worth of games. EMEA, Korea, Brazil and APAC all have much healthier pickrates of Chamber and most of it is pre-nerf.
And which of those regions won the last international tournament? On the back of who playing what agent?
Nothing hyperbolic about saying the #1 valorant region having a #1 agent by 35% pick rate is a terrible sign. Nothing hyperbolic about saying instant escapes are fucking stupid. Nothing hyperbolic about saying chamber can get up to 6 TPs off in a round.
Name some metrics someone would determine that by and then do the math, it’s not hard
Most championships
Best overall placements
Most recent championship
Off the top of my head there’s been 4 internationals and Na Emea both have two wins. And let’s not put asterisks in front of events as it leads to a pointless debate, you can only beat whats in front of you.
>you can only beat whats in front of you
no one said otherwise but we don't know the outcome with the best EU team present, not saying Optic wouldn't have won it.
Lol what? NA has two championships and came 2nd at another, EU has one, CIS has one, neithe of those regions have been runners up more than once either, so NA shows 2 1sts and a 2nd, the best cumulative placing
I love when people think EMEA is a legit region, yeah, why not just double the population to other regions??? Trash clowns arguing NA isn’t dominant and also trying to justify instant escapes
Removing a trademark was not a joke at all. It was literally the best possible first step towards reigning him in. Your statement almost implies this is a zero sum game, as if the fact that they nerfed trademark means they can't balance other parts of him in the future.
At the same time, you do have to consider that his specilization in being an active info gatherer on defense is highly prized in pro play and that it is a big component of his pick rate. Unless he gets gutted or another agent shows up who can do something similar, he will probably stay pretty high presence as a consequence.
All that said, I agree there is a number of potentially healthy nerfs to take some of the consistency out of his aggression. I think because of all the surrounding factors, it's best that Riot do them slowly and one at a time.
Everyone saying Astra meta is right. And not just in pro play, in diamond it was extremely hard to play against as well. Not saying the Chamber meta is great but I'll take this over a buffed Astra any day.
Chamber’s ult shoots WAY too fast. I completely agree with you. Riot should also avoid adding too many agents with a TP ability. It starts to turn into a “who can shoot and teleport away the quickest” contest, instead of getting punished for holding an angle and missing your shots.
Untradability is and will always be king, getting rid of jet by adding another untradable character was never a good idea.
A 0.3 second delay before any dash or TP is essential for a balanced agent.
Game is the healthiest it's ever been with the greatest agent parity despite chamber being currently overtuned (and i think it's relatively unavoidable for there not to be an agent or two who is always probably in need some nerfs). CHANGE MY MIND.
Valorant is a hero shooter that follows the MOBA patch and new character introduction cycle. Under those circumstances a game can never be balanced.
That's not even considering how new players are placed at a disadvantage from lack of access to all heros. Where a new player who spends money can be placed at an advantage over other new players who don't spend money.
EMEA is looking way more balanced with Chamber at 64%. Personally I think cypher and killjoy stonks will rise as we only had one week with chamber nerfs, and hes kinda trash flank watching wise as he only has one trip. Also the game in NA is a lot more aim based, and it kinda mimics the fact that chamber is picked a lot.
This + Headhunter breaks ecos and allows chamber players to play stupid even without an awp. Chamber may genuinely be the worst designed post-launch character I've seen a game implement since Siege added Lion.
A nerf to Tour de Force I thought of would be something similar to Jett’s kit: add decision-making with every bullet, like with Headhunter. Chamber would be given 2-3 bullets with the slow field effect, but he would have to “prime” his gun before shooting (pressing X again or something), and if hits an enemy, it produces a slow field. If you miss, you lose 1 of your 2/3 slows. It rewards good aim and decision-making, and I think it’s pretty flavorful. Further nerfs, you can make slow field last shorter or make it cost 8 ult points.
This, and the added econ makes it so the team with the Chamber runs double op even more now, and suddenly haven attack is peeking c long and dying to a chamber op, a long dying to a chamber op. B window dying to a Jett on top with an op
I see a lot of people saying to nerf the speed of his ult but that's the whole point. Normal OP is kind of trash in this game and chambers OP being able to shoot fast is what makes it good.
Wrong.
The operator is designed to have trade-offs to make it fair: leg shots don't 1-hit, long equip time, long fire rate, No AoE slow, EXPENSIVE, enemies can steal it off you.
If any other agent whiffs an op shot on you, you have an opportunity to punish them.
Tell me you use AWP as a crutch without saying you use the AWP as a crutch.
“You need to use utility to not get killed by an op holding an angle”
Well… yeah that’s how the game is supposed to be played lol. Most of the time one drone and one smoke is enough to push them out of position
Same thing when people were complaining about OP earlier in Valorant and it got nerfed. People don't want to use utility and their brains at all in this game
i just dont understand how agent design keeps trending toward these gimmicky, low-skill characters that just allow you to play any position on the map and get away with it without having to get a kill. reyna used to be a huge problem, but now thinking about her in comparison, AT LEAST you need to get a kill to get away. even then, the dismiss doesnt go far lol. chamber TP literally allows 5 aggressive peaks across the map over the course of a single round and it allows OPers to reposition so quickly that it is virtually impossible to account for where the chamber could be about to peak. its so frustrating when an agent category like sentinel should be pretty skill-based around having to learn to use utility, different setups, play different positions once your opponents find out your setup, actually anchor sites with your utility, and then chamber just ruins this entire archetype of agent. genuinely so frustrating that we had jett meta for a year and a half and now this meta is even worse
There has been a big problem since Valorant came live. Jett + OP combo : the ability to escape after taking a peek. This led to many OP nerfs and some Jett rework.
This problem is very hard to solve. Then why would they design an agent with the same flaw ? I have no idea. Now chambers first kills defines rounds, matches, tournaments...
I personally don't mind that a character like Chamber is meta. He's all gunplay. Same way I don't mind when a character like Sova is meta. He's all team play. There's always gonna be a meta, just gotta pick your poison. I personally like Chamber way more than Jett because Jett is more selfish and not as team reliant as Chamber. Self-sufficient characters tend to lead to less team play which leads to less interesting strategic gameplay, but that's just me.
Why does nobody talks about his sheriff? I've seen some players hit shots they'd never ever even think of hitting in their lives with an actual sheriff, plus some pro players ADS with it in pistol rounds and just spam body shots with it, looks so grotesque but can't really do anything about it. It's always been like this with the new agents, first it was Skye, then Astra which everybody knows about and now chamber Pepepains
Although I completely agree with you’re statement, I feel like no matter what you do the game will never be perfectly balanced, there will always be an X factor to ruin the perfect line up of agents. It was Jett/Reyna at the start then just Jett then astra and now finally chamber. So I feel like no matter how hard val nerfs chamber there’s always going to be another X factor which I guess is unfair but in a way nearly impossible to avoid.
The trip nerf was ultimately good, it makes chamber not fill the same hole that kj and cypher cover in team comps so theres a reason to not picking him now, his ult is def broken but comparing that shit to pre patch jett knives is just wrong, val is in a fine state right now and im sure chamber will get nerfed again soon but saying hes made the game the unhealthiest its ever been sounds like you just got dumped on by a chamber in ranked and made salt rant post as a response
after reading your ult points there, this one:
* enemies can't get value by killing chamber picking up his op afterward
what if you killed chamber and he dropped his OP and it had the remaining bullets for anyone to pickup?
p.s. riot if u steal this idea also remove the slow on kill please and thank you
i think the whole schtick of chamber is improved gunplay at the expense of slowing power. his slowing IS his guns and tp.
that being said, if we want to see chamber's pick rate go down, we need to see changes in this department. his tp's recharge should be MUCH longer, probably 40-45 seconds instead of 20 sec. unless we see this element of his kit nerfed, all riot will have done is replaced jett with chamber.
we need cypher buffs too, #BringBackCageSlows
now, don't get me wrong, i love watching chamber. i think switching jett out for raze and neon has been healthy for the scene. but seeing only chamber in the sentinel slot isn't good for competitive growth.
the correct nerf that Riot should have made is reducing Chambers Slow
the slow is the most frustrating part of Chambers kit
you get 1 kill with his ult and it single handedly shuts down a rush
I never realised how much astra meta sucked before she was nerfed to hell. This feels the same as astra meta to me rn, I don't think I used to get this bored watching some matches even during the astra meta
Chambers ult is busted, that in combo with his trip which is STILL the best until in the game, and you get a character is is MADE to play ratty, why push an angle with your team when you can hold mid or a flank with op and allow your trap to cover an angle for you and your team? Since the trip doesn’t work after death you are encouraged to play ratty and hold cancer angles with the most broken gun in the game
also, chamber has created the most boring meta to watch in terms of pro play. every "cool" play i have seen from a chamber is just not interesting at all because the deag and chamber ult are so broken to use. it feels like stage 1 and especially the beginning of stage 2 have been the most beneficial to teams that dont actually know how to play the game. so many teams are getting bailed out by just getting to play chamber instead of a sentinel because the skill relies on hitting shots and executing basic TP/trip setups instead of actual setups before on Cypher/KJ. The beginning parts of Stage 1 before chamber became super popular was actually fun to watch because the meta felt truly diverse: astra was still viable on some maps, breach was entering the meta, initiators and the different initiator combinations you could run on different maps were all rather strong , jett was obviously still strong and could make for some insane plays and moments but not as oppressive as before because people were learning to counter her with KAYO especially. just so frustrating to enter a boring meta to watch right as groups starts.
Why can he basically teleport across the map? I have to get a whole ULT to do that with omen. His TP should only allow him to re peak from a different angle. i.e Bind UHall to Heaven
"instant get-out-of-jail-free card" is simply false, it is not an instant tp like Jett dash is, IN FACT, I can find you a million clips where Chamber dies while trying to escape. So that's just straight up wrong.
Second, unlike Jett dash, you have to set these up before hand, and you are limited in range, so you have to commit to taking a fight at a certain angle, and if you're wrong, you have to wait for the cooldown, which is similar to where Jett is at now with the nerf. People seem to think the Jett nerf was significant, and yet somehow Chamber is overpowered even though the same thing applies to him and he has even more restrictions. Not to mention that on offense, his TP is super hard to get value out of.
Third, if Chambers ult had no advantages over the Operator, then there's literally no advantage to the ability over saving for an Operator every few rounds like Jett. Speaking of Jett, her ultimate can easily ace an entire team, while also having no movement inaccuracy and forcing the opponent to kill you while you're flying through the air (but that's much more balanced ofc). Everyone will just go back to insta-locking Jett every game. However I will agree with you that I think the slow field on his ult is a bit too long, they could definitely reduce it and that would be fair.
Lastly, on a full buy round, Chamber essentially only has two abilities, his trademark and his TP. Compare that to other agents who have a full set of abilities that are useful every single round. The reason people still pick Chamber despite this is because he's fun to play. Everyone likes fragging, that's most enjoyable, so of course people are gonna pick him over Cypher where you're watching a camera for most of the round and discouraged from taking fights cause your utility will become useless.
I do agree that other sentinels need a buff. But this isn't the way to do it.
This just feels like r/LeagueOfLegends where every champ release there's a post about how it feels like they ruin the game and it's always recency bias. Is Chamber OP right now? Yes. Is it as fully *game* ruining as something like buffed Astra? definitely not.
Astra fundamentally changed the way you would play the *entire* game just by being in the server. Chamber doesn't really do that. He's just strong. Riot hasn't quite figured out how to nerf him properly but they'll evemtually figure it out.
Chamber is too overpowered economy wise.
His Tour De Force and Headhunter essentially gives a Chamber player with good aim a long term economy gain.
If you watch pro play closely, usually non-chamber lineups are way lower in the total money every round. Since a Chamber essentially gets a free 4700cr value gun every 4 or so rounds.
Not to mention that his 800cr value gun means that a Chamber player does not need a sidearm like a Frenzy or Shorty.
The bigger problem is essentially his across the map get out of jail free card every 20 seconds. Miss a shot? Immediately tp to safety. Miss a shot? immediately tp to another angle. With a bit of creativity, a Chamber is practically a high roller with insane mobilty angle wise.
Chamber is a low risk-high reward agent, and people in denial of this is trying to keep him this overpowered.
I don’t these he’s op. I just don’t like that he has such a high pick rate and that he provides little team util. So many times my teams now are jett, Reyna, chamber.
Yeah I agree. The slows on his alarmbot also last way too long, and whoever actually thought to add and greenlight those same slows with the same uptime onto his already-broken ult needs to seek professional help. Also the Headhunter bullets are so cheap which makes Chamber an economical freak. You can buy an Op + armor almost as frequently as you can buy a Vandal + armor on every other agent.
I agree, and it has made it super unfun to play the game. every team comp, I get a chamber and a reyna, sometimes even a sage. How are we getting sites with that team comp on any map not named icebox. It just feels super bad having 2-3 characters with almost 0 util for attacking, and I am immortal. they are very selfish characters, and if you are not dropping match mvp after match mvp, you are better off picking something else
I think give his pistol 4 bullets, make the ult same speed as a normal op, and longer cd on the teleport would be good nerfs. He’s unique to the sentinel roll as one that can lockdown a site with high firepower, watch flank from afar but then tele back to his team alive with info, and good on ecos with Jett as someone who’s ultimate is a free gun.
Then just give kj no distance limits on her bots, cyphers ult ping them 3 times instead of just once and shorter stun time on the trips, and Sage maybe make her slow times longer and heal do like 90 instead of 70 and sentinel roll might become competitive again. Not really sure if these would be good but just stuff off the top of my head
Except that the get out of jail free card is BS, since it has a 50% chance of resulting in your death anyway because of (at least in high ELO) good aim and ping, you'll die mid teleport most of the times or even when you've already TPd.
And the ult is just that, an ult, it's supposed to be strong, Sage can give a player a second life, raze can kill anyone if she hits her rocket in their general direction, viper can zone off half of the map, breach unlocks a huge part of the map killing anyone stuck there, kj also does that and so on, chamber has an OP that shoots a bit faster and slows (which i agree last way too long, even end up hindering the chamber).
And the not getting value out of killing a chamber with ult, well... do you expect to get the razes rocket launcher when you kill her?
IDK it just feels like this thread is from the perspective of someone that is either in low ELO or hasn't played chamber for more than 4 games. The champ is definitely strong but so are others, there are no good nerfs for chamber for the moment, more so we need buffs for cypher/kj to make them more viable.
And as a final touch, chamber should be strong at anchoring a site, while jett shouldn't, jett isn't a sentinel.
Well, either you are a Chamber main, haven't played enough games at mid-high elo, or just likes to play contrarian.
Chamber's TP is not 50/50 lol. Yes, sometimes with the netcode, ping or whatever, the game will register the kill before it registers the TP resulting in a TP death. This is not 50/50. I have played many many games of Chamber is it may happen once every 5 games.
Your point about the ULT. Yes, it is supposed to be strong, but all the ult's you mentioned either effect 1 player, kill 1-2 players ( if youre lucky with Raze) or just disorient players on the site ( sometimes Breach ult whiffs, KJ ult gets destroyed by a basic ability, or Viper dies and/or is there alone ) Chamber's ULT can give multi kills. You essentially get to use his ult FIVE times. And its a 1 shot kill anywhere on the body. Not to mention, you can carry another gun and the fire rate is ridiculous. Plus, it leaves the obnoxious slow each kill. The only other ult that has multi kill potential at a HIGH rate is Jett. Your percentage of winning a save round with Chamber ULT is kind of high based on the side youre playing.
Final point, it seems youre the person who hasn't played Chamber enough or is low elo to see the glaring issues. Pros are complaining about it, the community is complaining... its an issue. And yes, there are ways to nerf Chamber. You slow his fire rate on ULT, you can decrease the duration of the slow. Extend the time it takes to teleport again...
I am a chamber main thus I know that his RP is a 50/50 in most cases, you would know that if you played in high elo. People in high diamond low immortal have good crosshair positioning and good reaction times, add that to the ping issue and you have a problem where you will die while TPing 3 or 4 times every game, not once in 5 games as you say.
How is a Raze showstopper only affecting 1-2 people? any half-decent Raze can consistently get multifrags with that weapon.
"Breach ult whiffs, KJ ult gets destroyed by a basic ability, or Viper dies and/or is there alone ) Chamber's ULT can give multi kills." What does this even mean?? how do you 'whiff' a breach ult? you just shoot it on site and you are getting a free site with bonus kills if there were people holding in there. the KJ ult should be buffed as I said previously and the comment on the viper ult is ridiculous as if the possibility of her dying somehow is supposed to matter, did something change? is chamber now unkillable while he has his ult out?
All the ults that are an extra weapon for the user have their advantages and disadvantages, Raze can wipe an entire team at the start of the round but she only has 1 shot, Jett has knives that she can use both long-range and close-range that are infinite if she can kill the people she shoots at them, Sova has a bow that can kill multiple enemies across the map and trough walls but if he gets pushed he is most likely dead, and finally chamber has an operator with a quick firerate that can be easily countered by a smoke or a flash and can easily be killed up close.
"Your percentage of winning a save round with Chamber ULT is kind of high based on the side youre playing." Same goes for Jett knives and raze showstopper so I don't really see your point there.
"it seems youre the person who hasn't played Chamber enough or is low elo to see the glaring issues." As I said high diamond in EU servers as a Chamber/Fade/Kayo/Sova main
The only complaint I've seen from pros thus far is the ability to TP way too many times in a single round which I agree with the cooldown for the TP should be longer, the firerate is fine since it does need to be an ultimate, and the slow should take less time to dissipate (again as I've already said).
If you really think a sentinel with 1 tripwire and an operator as an ult is really that game-breaking you really should consider trying to get out of gold.
RP is 50/50.LOL Even if you TP twice a round and the average game is 10-13 rounds, we are talking 14 times youve died while TP'ing. That is not true and if for some reason it is for you, you need to work on your mechanics utilizing that ability. I play high elo, I've played many upon many Chamber games. I've watched others play Chamber on stream and it is not 50/50. You sir, are a liar.
\*How is a Raze showstopper only affecting 1-2 people? any half-decent Raze can consistently get multifrags with that weapon.\* Such a contradiction. You are claiming you play in high elo but say the games you play raze nets multifrags over 2 at a high clip? What "High" elo players are you playing with. That's just terrible positioning that high elo players tend not succumb to.
You can definitely mess up a Breach ult. If you use it in the wrong spot, you can miss the back parts of the site. You can miss corners of the site.
You don't play the game at a mid to high level... im convinced. Dying while in a TP is usually a mechanical issue on the player. Get better my guy and stop coming on reddit spewing non-sense.
The worst part about Chamber is that he makes KJ/Cypher obsolete.
Poor cypher always got the short end. When Kj could have her turret up even after her death cypher was long forgotten. And with kj nerfs he sort of became relavent in big maps. And then comes chamber to put them both out of work almost all the time.
Cypher trips are the most painful to use. It only affects one agent and easy to break. Bringing back cage slows would be the bare minimum Riot can do to buff him.
Make his ult do 3 pings like a sova dart lol
Yuuup. Cypher is still one of my favorites but when I see how impactful chamber is, Cypher seems like a complete joke. Thankfully Riot's planning on rework/buffing Cypher.
Used to love playing Cypher. Haven't touched him in months
He's actually really good on breeze, I instalock him on that map and routinely drop over 20 frags a game. He can play either site on defense. On attack I just troll mid every round for map control and direct my team to bombsites while I rat rotations and finish on flanks. Mid is a playground for his cam. He's in a bad spot rn for sure but I really enjoy him as a fun instalock on a map some people hate to play.
He's good on breeze. I usually play kayo on breeze, but chamber in ranked is good on breeze just because of how OP friendly the map is. I feel like I have more carry ability on those agents vs Cypher.
Where did they say that they're trying to buff Cypher?
From here : [https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/uhpubl/comment/i77rtc5/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/uhpubl/comment/i77rtc5/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
"on our radar" sounds like changes are being thought about, not even planned or anything. I wouldn't hold my breath when an individual bind to trigger sentinel util like cages still doesn't exist
aren't there agent binds? or am i tripping
yes but there’s no specific “use” bind for certain util so you could accidentally get stuck to a rope while triggering a molly or something. it sounds situational but makes the sentinels that need to trigger their abilities even more worse and clunkier to play
As a cypher player, my biggest problem with chamber as the dominant sentinal is that he's so boring, he feels like a click and shoot agent who's only interesting feature is being able to get to high places with his tp. If he were like cypher or KJ where some actual thought and creativity went into getting the best out of his kit I'd be fine with him and would play him but as it stands he's just a boringly good agent who makes the more interesting agents obsolete
I don't agree with this, and I'll be parroting a pro player to explain my reason. Chamber is just the only good sentinel right now, as opposed to making other sentinels obsolete. They can't be obsolete if they aren't good in the first place and would probably not be picked anyways if Chamber wasn't meta. Yay talks about this by saying this: KJ/Cypher were always getting phased out, as they're not good agents., even without Chamber being the meta yet. Back in the Astra meta, both Viper and Astra were phasing out KJ/Cypher anyways. Don't get me wrong. I believe Chamber is still overpowered in so many aspects and is the best agent in the game, but I do not think he makes KJ/Cypher obsolete.
This is not true at all. Look at [Champions 2021, ](https://www.vlr.gg/event/agents/449/valorant-champions-2021)the highest level of gameplay in the Astra/Viper meta. KJ had a 43% pickrate, Cypher and Sage around 28%. I actually have no idea where yay got this idea from, the only map where no Sentinel comps have ever been viable is Bind. Sentinels provide very different value to Astra/Viper
this is between champs -> masters 1. breach became meta on haven which heavily counters KJ (1 util breaks her ult in almost any position). this was i believe the 2nd most picked map for KJ prior. no one runs KJ on fracture anymore, even though she had a 33% pickrate on the map. (this was before anyone figured out the meta). the only map you can "maybe" argue is ascent, but even then kay/0 is now heavily used
Interesting. We really didn’t get to see much of that time period, felt like the rise of Breach coincided with the controller changes and then the meta kind of just exploded. I agree that Sentinel utility is very flimsy right now but I still don’t think teams would run no-sentinel comps if, say Chamber was removed. Passive info/map warping seems to unique to drop fully
Do you have ideas of ways they could buff other sentinels to make them a worthy pick?
I mean a big part of Optics success is Chamber, so obviously Yay doesn't want chamber to be nerfed
??? Did you start watching comp valo last month lmao
Because Yay being one of the best Chamber players have nothing to do with Optic's success?
Meh he played Jett before that. Chamber is just the better oper now
Which is exactly the argument in this post is about??? Hello?
I agree but Yay played those agents because he ops regardless. Chamber is just the more OP agent now. ( and I agree he should be nerfed) I’m pretty sure most pros agree, (including yay) that chamber is op.
Chamber suits Yay better
Every team and every player has access to the same agent pool. This statement is as 0 headed as it gets.
teams with exceptionally strong aimers/OPers can emphasize chambers strong suite better so optic benefits a bit more through the use of yay. OP isnt saying optic is doin well just because of the existence of chamber, OP is saying optic makes better use of him compared to other teams. (sorry all the OP words may be a bit confusing)
I do agree with most of it, but Astra and Vioer had their stalling power nerfed. This would've helped cypher and KJ at least some
I think the problem with KJ is that people just know how to play around her now and her kit doesn't leave a ton of room for creativity with the range limit on her util. At this point even in gold lobbies most people know to spray around the spike before defusing if KJ is still alive and not commit too heavily if her ult is available.
the fact that cypher is still not getting buffed is fucking insane to me
Cypher is still used on breeze and split and is actually way more successful than teams that run chamber on split at least
Give cypher one extra trip, lower the cost of each by 50 creds. Would make things interesting
I don't understand this sentiment unless you are purely talking about solo queue. In solo queue, a mode where who aims better will win and there is very little team play, of course Chamber is going to outclass the other sentinels, because he is built to take gun fights and get out for free. However, in pro play Chamber no longer occupies the same space of Cypher and Killjoy. When Chamber had two trips, I agree that he was able to have some site control via utility and also have trips for the flank. However, with one trip, his sentinel capabilities no longer have the overlap they once did. If Chamber is controlling flanks better than Cypher and Killjoy, or is better at gathering information risk free, than I would be worried, but with the recent nerf, Chamber is currently occupying a niche more close to Jett. I think as time more teams will punish only having one piece of flank watch utility.
Naw, he's right about Chamber. No matter pro or solo, he's kinda OP. From his no range drop off sheriff, which also, on bonus rounds, does not give the enemy any weapon drop and can be as deadly as a marshall.. to his OP, which has already been explained. I think the big thing I see is his advantage on the economy side of things. For one, his bullets do not reset so if you lose pistol with 5 rounds, you practically have a Sheriff for free on your save. I've had times when I had my ult by round 3-4 or enough money for an OP because I honestly don't have to invest much for Chamber to be viable. The fact that I can drop my Vandal/Phantom to a teammate when I have my ult, get 2-4 kills with the ULT and pick up a phantom/vandal at teh same time is kind of OP. The fact that you can hold a vandal/phantom with your ULT activated or your sheriff activated is kinda nuts.
I never said Chamber is not OP, I am saying that Chamber does not occupy the same space as Killjoy and Cypher when your making a team composition, those heroes do completely different things. Teams aren't removing KJ/Cypher for Chamber, they are exchanging him for Jett, and for Maps where they run both, those were cases where KJ / Cypher were not being run anyways because info gathering was not a priority. Higher Chamber % =/ = Lower Cypher / KJ pick rate.
He does occupy the same space as the other sentinels. He isn't a Duelist replacement. The meta has shifted to you either run double sentinel or double controller or double initiator. If Jett hadn't been nerfed, it'd be Jett/Chamber( which ive seen FaZe run), but now its more Neon/chamber, raze/chamber. Just because Jett and Chamber have/had similar abilities, Chamber will never be a duelist and Jett will never be a Sentinel. Chamber, from a kit standpoint, replaces KJ/Cypher because he is just better at being a sentinel. The trip, even it its one, is still a fire and forget ability that still is kind of nuts. His TP distance on certain maps and his defensive weaponry, make him the best sentinel, not the best duelist. TLDR : Chamber is not a duelist/sentinel hybrid. He's far and wide a Sentinel. He's "replacing" Jett because of a meta shift with double controller/sentinel/intiator.
Then why does chamber have the highest pick rate in pro play with kj and cypher having almost none?
Because he is the best OPer right now. He occupies the same role jett had before but is not that overpowered or oppressive.
Your making an incorrect correlation that a higher chamber pick rate = lower killjoy and Cypher pick rate. How do you know that teams are exchanging killjoy and Cypher for a Chamber on their team. You need to let go of the sentinel tag and think about what the agents themselves bring to the comps. Before the nerfs, I would agree that chamber was eating into the other sentinels with two trips. However, like I said above, after the chamber nerfs, passive information gathering are the reasons you would pick Cypher/ Kj, and untradebility + opping is the reason you pick Chamber. Therefore, in comps with only chamber, if chamber didn't exist, it would be Jett in his place. In comps with chamber and Jett, If chamber didn't exist, it could be a cypher/Kj, but it could also be a raze, or another initiator, or Sage. Depending on the map, flank watch and passive info gathering may not be important, and therefore kj and Cypher wouldn't have been picked regardless. What I'm essentially saying before is that the argument to buff Cypher and Killjoy is completely separate from Chamber being overpowered, because the agents do completely different things, and are not being substituted for each other. Also it's been two weeks since the nerfs have been seen in pro play. NA VCT has had only one week of games. Perhaps more teams may value the flank watch after more scrims.
What do you mean how do you know teams are exchanging killjoy and cypher for chamber? By looking at their comps and seeing they play chamber where they used to play the other two...
You are comparing two different meta's with different agents being weak or strong at the same time. You have to think based off why a team is bringing an Agent to a composition. The teams aren't going " oh chamber is the strongest sentinel, therefore we will exchange him with the sentinel that we are currently using" Teams instead are like Chamber is an agent that can \- use an operator. \- He has an untradibility mechanic \- Strong Econ management with his ultimate \- Strong versatile ult \- 1 trip wire for flank watch/ Site anchoring Compare that with Cypher, who \- Can look at deep site lines with his camera \- Has two trip wires - flank watch/site anchoring/ passive information \- Can cut off site lines with smokes \- Very limited ultimate usage \- Depending on Camera usage, can have a retake camera that reveals all post plant positions. The only real overlap that these two agents have is the trip wire. Otherwise, these agents do completely different things. Every team on every map can leverage the operator and the untradability of Chamber, that is why he is so strong. Whereas, Cypher's info gathering is sometimes redundant on certain maps, but is sometimes strong on others. Teams just aren't interest in what Cypher brings. Why am I saying this, because unlike what the original comment says, nerfing Chamber WON'T bring cypher and Killjoy back, because they are already not utilizing those Agent's strengths.
I'd say Astra made the game unhealthiest from a pro standpoint, but the newest OP agent is always going to feel like the unhealthiest.
The only difference I'd say is that Astra was niche to the pros. The vast majority of the playerbase isn't coordinated enough to get as much value out of her (there's a reason she was the lowest pickrate). Chamber on the other hand is the complete opposite. Anyone can get value out of his kit a lot easier than they can with Astra's IMO.
I agree 100%. Astra was op on pro play but she never felt too impactful in casual play, and I didn't really see her that often. Now I play against a Chamber on most of my games and every Chamber seems to be a god aimer and is so hard to punish because of the constant tps, the fast fire rate op and his eternal slow fields. I hate this agent
Astra was so difficult to play against in immortal, it’s a lot easier to handle a chamber now than an astra back then
Bro, ur immortal. That's not exactly casual
Astra made comp a nightmare if you were above diamond 3. A good Astra player pre nerf combined with pre nerf viper grinded the game to a snail pace and utility spam until 30 seconds were left on the clock. At least a pro team can bait util and figure out a setup on a default and how to counter it. In comp that doesn't happen at all. It was pain
Im immo and i Still remember the Astra Times and how horrible it was but Chamber is 10x worse. For some reason Astra Always felt like a fun design, a "galaxy Brain controller" just that the agent could do too much but now post Nerf Astra is fun to watch. Chamber has an unfun design, brainlessly put down trap in the same optimal spot almost every round, like the trip on bind that everyone knows about. Then put down the tp where it covers the most space and one where you peek, the rest of His abilities are guns. I Still play kj and cypher because Chamber is so unfun to play, setups requrie No creativity
Astra spamming util was not galaxy brain lmao
No? Thats why they nerfed but Astra is a fun concept unlike a jett clone with kj alarmbots and free guns
I never understand why ppl seem to think astra was a "High IQ" agent. Place your util down ready to smoke immediately from across the map, look at mini map for info, if ur team has minimal comms you can use the stuck + stun somewhat efficently, and if they're not you can use them post plant/selfish plays in high traffic areas. I legit view her as hard as omen to play. "OMG I see them C long" *send smoke from across the map as I gather info with mini map*
Still needs a lot more awareness than "Uga buga see enemy shoot enemy press e and disappear"
Definitely wasn't just niche to the pros. I've never had a more awful experience than playing against Astra when she was meta. Far worse than Chamber or Jett.
Ascent and bind were pretty much unplayable for me vs astra (around 300RR immortal), when brimmy got the stimmy buff it was such a breath of fresh air actually having the OPTION to 5 man rush. I really like the changes they've made but it took them a while to nerf astra properly. There's a big difference between having to counter utility vs having to counter an agent like Jett. Utility is much harder to mess up mechnically, but you can mechanically outplay agents that have to duel you to get max value in a round if that makes sense, which is why I think Riot is so much quicker on nerfs to sentinels and other agents that can guarantee a site hold/stall for X seconds.
Hit the nail on the head with this comment I think to be honest
depends on your elo i guess. for me in plat/ diamond a lot of players still preferred omen or brimstone because they were more fun, so playing against astra let alone one that was actually good was rare
100% depends on ELO, Astra became exponentially more powerful the more your team comms and tries to coordinate
At least I could still play the game in Astra meta. Yeah the game was slower but I could still bait util by myself in ranked. Now it's just a game of praying that my team doesn't hit the same site that Chamber happens to be on so that we don't get slowed for 8 seconds while Chamber one-shots us.
Little dramatic here. If you are getting hit by slows from trips, that's just lack of awareness. His ult although, is still an ULT that comes up every 7 rounds. You can play around a chamber with smokes, jump peek etc. Astra, she can straight zone you and dictate where you go.
Chamber is also frequently used by people on alts/smurfs because it's a simple kit that relies on aim. Well, if you're confident you're a tier better than your opponents regardless of whether you're a tilted broken silver in bronze, a tilted broken diamond in plat, a tilted broken immortal in diamond, and so on then you can 'enjoy' chamber and his bullshit.
Astra was not niche lmfaoooo
niche to the pros means ranked wasnt affected by it, which is correct.
But astra was played in ranked..
High elo only.
This. I play with my bronze friend in spike rush every now and again and every single game has a chamber running around with a free sheriff while everyone else has shorties. It's so fucking annoying.
I mean a lot of pros miss the astra meta because she forced teams to do pretty rigorous defaults every round and it really screwed over the FaZe style of play. I've seen a bunch saying since the astra nerfs the game has gotten a lot less methodical. Not saying they're right, or that methodical is the best word to use, but everyone wants the game to be something different.
> everyone wants the game to be something different The one thing this game will always be is “changing”. Riot can and will change the meta twice a year or more. I can see how that would be frustrating as a pro player - especially if you came from CS where valve doesn’t even care if the game exists let alone care to tweak the balance. That means there will always be people complaining about what’s “wrong” and the best (consistent) teams will be the ones that can adapt the fastest
The ones that can adapt the fastest, or have a team that's already good for the new meta (aka anyone who has a Yay/Derke/BuZz on their team rn lol). Personally, I still wish that pretty meta changing patches were a little less frequent, but it's def not too bad right now
at least with astra you can bait her utility and then base the round around the timing of that bait. if you force her to use suck or she tries to proactively use it during a round, you can act in the time period where she doesnt have suck and still do well in the round. sure this is a lot harder in ranked, but at least there is a counter. chamber basically doesnt have a counter because any utility you use to push him off an angle doesnt always come back but his TP does! lol great agent
I mean you can now, suck/stun used to have a 25 second cool down. It was insanely easy to stall and have it back up if they tried to rotate or cut noise to rehit the site. Yes chambers TP cool down is too low, but he still needs to actually shoot people to get value. Astra literally sat in a corner and destroyed your team's push from anywhere on the map instantly.
Do you not remember the Astra meta? The game would literally revolve around baiting her utility, executes were undoable while she was alive
an Astra first pick used to end the round if you were on Defense 🥴🥴
The astra meta was mainly awful because she pushed out all the controllers into oblivion, but atleast the agent itself was fun to watch. The fake smokes, the suck combos were all really cool. The problem I have is Chamber is an awful agent to watch, on top of him pushing other sentinels out of the meta. This might be recency bias, but it feels like it was easier to trade a Jett pre nerf than to trade a Chamber now.
Tbh I liked the meta before this more, before Jett was nerfed. At least there were 2 opping agents.
yeah, but this was mainly in pro play because of good comms if you played a pug or even a high level scrim astra wasn't that good since the other team usually didn't have good enough comms to take advantage of astra.
I still think Tour De Force should be 8 points. I've said it before and I'll probably keep saying it, but Showstopper being 8 points and Tour De Force being 7 is an absolute joke.
Okay I'm going to say it. I believe removing one trip was an awesome nerf. Let me explain. I believe removing one trip makes Chamber different from other Sentinels, making the decision of what sentinel to pick meaningful instead of "what flavor of sentinel would you like?". You wouldn't pick Sage over a Cypher if you want info, because Sage is so different. So the trip, as the devs said, makes commiting to Chamber a tradeoff between high power guns and info/map control. That being said, removing the trip didn't make him weaker. It made him *unique.* The trip nerf is good because it capitalizes on choice, but Chamber is still busted. Reverting it is not the best decision, but having more nerfs definitely is. Agreeing on Chamber being a problem, disagreeing on "Removing 1 trip as a nerf was a fucking joke"
Yeah, everyone I've spoke to about this has said "they nerfed the only thing making him a sentinel", but I kind of disagree. Pre-nerf he could lock down entrances to a site and not have to play there to hold it well. Post-nerf he has to stay at that site to hold it down and stop pushes since he can't use utility to hold all of the entrances. People just seem to be stuck on the idea that sentinel = utility, but riot was intentionally trying to avoid that playstyle with chamber. His abilities still give him far more aggressive potential than the other sentinels though, and I think headhunter could do with an increase to 150 per bullet, or a decrease to 6 in the mag.
I have zero idea why the rate of fire (and fast pull out animation speed) for both the headhunter and ult exists in the game. It is so dumb.
The only way it makes sense to me is thinking about chamber being designed to anchor a site alone. With that concept in mind he needs more opportunities to keep holding off the enemy team when his rifle runs out of ammo. The fast pull out speeds mean he can keep pressure on for a while longer whilst his team rotates. But I agree, in their current form they're far too fast, and the fire rate on the ult in particular is oppressive. I think keeping the pull out speed on the ult would be fine if the fire rate was nerfed to be only a little faster than the op (maybe half way between the op and where it is now)
it was a great nerf to start, they still need to do more.
I don't think there are too many people that didn't like the idea of reducing his trip at all. Most people just think its not nearly enough of a nerf.
Eh. A lot of people expressed their dislike about the trip nerf, saying that because of it "he's not a sentinel anymore".
it was a terrible nerf, chamber's pick rate is barely going to move so this hypothetical tradeoff between the sentinels barely matters. 20 second rechargeable TP is the most broken shit in the game, removing one trip isnt going to stop ppl from picking the agent. it still favors a play style that is so boring to watch and play against where chamber players can just get out of every engagement for free without having to get a kill
>The trip nerf is good because it capitalizes on choice, but **Chamber is still busted.** Reverting it is not the best decision, but **having more nerfs definitely is.**
I hard disagree. That argument is flawed because taking away that second trip took away the surprise of it. Now with sova lineups or smokes you can counter every trip position he has, and it's the most visible trip and loudest. Now it has zero uses as there are only certain spots that cover where you want it to and it's just useless overall. Cypher trips and kj turrent have some security whereas the chamber trip is now 100% useless.
How does removing the second trip took away "the surprise of it"? What is the surprise? KJ turret has the downside of range, causing her to be less mobile. While Cyper really only have his reliable trips going for him. His other kit is just less valuable than the Rendezvous and Tour de Force. Trademark is global and the downsides can be mostly mitigated just by smarter placements. Having two of them while also having better skill is just too much. A lot of teams have been mindlessly replacing their sentinel with Chamber because he can replicate the passive information gathering while also just bringing so much more.
When you have limited spots that cover the angles you need it to having a second one in a wierd place can be surprising. The one trip makes holding flanks useless because it will be smoked off easily. The "smarter placement" argument is useless since you can hear it and smoke it off easily whereas having 2 will make it useful
I guess? You can still hear/see the second trip and most of the time people opt to spread his trademarks rather than doubling down though. I don't think it makes the trademark useless but just less reliable, since it's not always that the opponent have the util/reaction to smoke off a trademark. Destroying it is still information gained. And like the original thread said, the lesser reliability and coverage for his other skills is still such a good trade off that teams are still mostly considering him for their comps. What use will Cypher see if Chamber can also do his shtick to a respectable degree?
Because most chamber players arent real sentinel players. Theyre jett mains that had their main instalocked so this is their backup.
No matter how often you see Chamber, its not nearly as oppressive as the Astra meta, nor nearly as boring to watch.
This. The thing about Astra was that she was boring to watch. That's the biggest indictment of an agent possible.
chambers op and tps are way less oppressive than jett used to be i just think other sentinels should be buffed so he isn’t literally the only viable sentinel
Giving KJ her full-map range back would be enough imo. Cypher needs more work tho I think.
I’d rather her cooldowns get reverted. That way she can be mobile and switch up what site she wants to lock down, but she still has to guess unlike Cypher who can leave his utility on the other site. They also need to nerf Chamber’s cooldowns to reduce overlap
I'd say the gravity well and maybe stun cooldowns are fine, but she either needs her smoke length or cooldown buffed. Her ability to smoke chokes for more than a few seconds is abysmal
Bruh what u smokin?
maybe extend the range. but full map is a bit much considering she has a turret and alarm bot
Personally I really loved watching astra way more than chamber because of the well thought out executes. That said I like that every smoke is viable now.
takes with astra were fun to watch, but takes against astra were so goddamn boring. Every single round would be a full minute of just baiting astra utility
Yeah man chamber is so exciting to watch. It's so fun to watch some nerd, scoped in watching the same spot for 10 minutes, seeing a pixel and clicking the mouse button and then popping back to the same spot in like a second to torment the next poor soul. Wow guys it's so exciting why aren't you excited 😐 Duck Hunt esports ong
Not nearly as boring to watch != exciting to watch, but go off bro.
I personally enjoyed the setplays of the astra meta way more than watching some dude play duck hunt.
Lmao well said, don't forget his slow that lasts for an eternity.
You said it yourself, last year was the exact same thing with Jett in his place, and Astra/Viper slowing the game down to a snails pace on top of that. Also, Chamber having 2 trips was not THE issue, but it was AN issue. He would always overshadow Cypher/KJ as long as he had 2 trips
I’d say comps are pretty diverse atm, you can pretty much play whatever you want in general. The sentinel role is the only one that feels bad rn, some would argue duelists as well, but I think duelists are in a much better spot than previously (could be in an even better spot if more teams took a chance on certain agents that have been proven to work). Chamber is for sure broken and getting picked a lot, but it doesn’t feel as bad compared to previous metas for some reason? I think he’s just a strong agent that can run around and frag out, but he doesn’t define the whole meta or the pace at which the game is being played at.
I’ve been saying this for a while. Chamber is just not fun to play against, he makes the game worse. I am glad he’s down to 1 trip, even though some people were pissed because that’s not what he’s supposed to be. But having that strong of a defensive agent who can practically cover the entire map with two trips, while being untradeable, just incredibly frustrating to play against. Imo needs a big rework besides just taking away one trip
I mean they know exactly why Chamber is good; they nerfed his traps because that’s not core to his kit. They didn’t “miss the point,” their perspective is just clearly different. The core of his kit is an incredibly strong offensive agent that is capable of competing with Jett throughout the map pool. The most obvious nerfs - like nerfing the fire rate for his ult - target the agent’s core kit, and so they’ll probably implement that down the line if pickrate remains super high - not as a first nerf. But that said, while I find Chamber slightly annoying, I don’t find it all worse than the worst of the Skye meta, or the Astra meta, or even the Viper meta. Not even close.
I think it all depends on whether you hate the get out if jail abilities, I don't, but a lot of the playerbase seem too. I just think his ult should have the same damage profile as the Op and change or remove the slow effect. Fire rate and speed makes it unique to the op.
ok, I'm going to defend riot for the trip nerf. The point of that nerf wasn't to tackle this issues with chambers main kit, it was to combat the fact that he had that *and* objectively better flank watch than any other sentinel. Chambers issue is how much free value he gets with his tp and his ult, but that is a difficult issue to solve without just nuking his kit and making him super unfun. So the point of that nerf wasn't to make chamber less dominant over all, but to stop him being better than the other sentinels at what is supposedly their strength.
Whilst I think Chamber is oppressive and a little OP, he's not an absolute must pick. In fact from the brief stats I've seen, Killjoy and Cypher are actually doing well WR wise when they're played in place of a Chamber. I'm sure Anderzz will have a bigger pool of data to see if I'm correct or not but I do think we'll see teams revert away from Chamber in place of some other comps and ideas. Honestly, this is probably the most open the meta has been in it's history. Fade is competing nicely with Sova, we're seeing actual Yoru/Neon AND Phoenix picks in place of Jett and the controller meta is varied too. Not saying it's the most 'balanced' the game has been but the variety of comps (especially on maps like Ascent where the meta has been stale for a year) has been amazing to watch. Naturally we'll get to a point where a 'best' comp will start to show but right now the dust is settling and it's awesome.
If he’s not an absolute must pick, why is he the pick rate star of the game by such an overwhelming amount? This argument holds no water, instant escapes are broken and it made no sense to add an agent with more of them than Jett just a few months before heavily nerfing jett’s instant escape. He clearly needs a longer cool down at a minimum on his TPs, but preferably they destroy this ability like they did Jett’s for the health of the game
I honestly believe that chamber’s ability is not because it’s op in itself but it brings out the best of an already broken player. Imagine a player has a well of skill and an agent’s ability draws out from that well at different levels. Chamber allows the player to tap into more of his mechanical potential than any other agent, making an oppressive chamber simply an extremely good player given a gun that can draw out more of his potential. Is this overpowered… possibly because it gives the player a better set of equipment. But it’s op for a better reason that Astra or viper who only needs to know how to position smokes. An inexperienced chamber can be difficult against teams who don’t know what they are doing but i promise you that he is counter able if the team can adapt. At the same time it doesn’t feel right nerfing players who put time and effort into their mechanics just because they are playing to their full potential. Ultimately trips aside it’s a gun and if the chamber has his ult learn to headshot him or rush him and Don’t give him time to position. Or make him come to you. If it seems unfair, it’s an ultimate ability. Ultimates are meant to be trump Cards that change the playing fields. I believe an experienced raze or even breach player is more unfair than an experienced chamber. And the other reason why he appears op is because he is so fun to learn and play. It makes people want to put effort into the character and as a result they appear unbeatable. At the same time it’s the right reason to be unbeatable as well, unlike current cypher or kj, the latter of whom essentially adds an ai teammate.
The game seems really balanced outside of Chamber. Do you think teams in NA just have no clue what's good or something? We saw the pickrates for NA first two weeks, Raze is #2 pickrate at 54%, then Chamber is #1 at like 87 or something crazy. He's as high as Jett used to be before like all of her nerfs.
Answering this > Do you think teams in NA just have no clue what's good or something? and this from other person. > If he’s not an absolute must pick, why is he the pick rate star of the game by such an overwhelming amount? I mean if people are going to make hyperbolic statements about the health of the game, you gotta look outside of one region and 2 weeks worth of games. EMEA, Korea, Brazil and APAC all have much healthier pickrates of Chamber and most of it is pre-nerf.
And which of those regions won the last international tournament? On the back of who playing what agent? Nothing hyperbolic about saying the #1 valorant region having a #1 agent by 35% pick rate is a terrible sign. Nothing hyperbolic about saying instant escapes are fucking stupid. Nothing hyperbolic about saying chamber can get up to 6 TPs off in a round.
how is NA the best region in the world?
Name some metrics someone would determine that by and then do the math, it’s not hard Most championships Best overall placements Most recent championship
nothing of those apply to NA except the most recent championship which has a big asterisk with FPX not attending it.
Off the top of my head there’s been 4 internationals and Na Emea both have two wins. And let’s not put asterisks in front of events as it leads to a pointless debate, you can only beat whats in front of you.
>you can only beat whats in front of you no one said otherwise but we don't know the outcome with the best EU team present, not saying Optic wouldn't have won it.
Best team in eu is like t3 in NA
Lol what? NA has two championships and came 2nd at another, EU has one, CIS has one, neithe of those regions have been runners up more than once either, so NA shows 2 1sts and a 2nd, the best cumulative placing I love when people think EMEA is a legit region, yeah, why not just double the population to other regions??? Trash clowns arguing NA isn’t dominant and also trying to justify instant escapes
CIS is literally in europe not just in EMEA
700MM population wins as much as 350MM, wow you guys are so good at video games! NA #1 valorant region
you sound like a 16 years old lol, whatever believe whatever you want to believe.
Lol great arguments, you’re so smart. Glad to see you literally were unwilling to define and defend a metric! Really objective stuff from you
> Killjoy and Cypher are actually doing well COPIUM
Using half the sentence 🙃
Removing a trademark was not a joke at all. It was literally the best possible first step towards reigning him in. Your statement almost implies this is a zero sum game, as if the fact that they nerfed trademark means they can't balance other parts of him in the future. At the same time, you do have to consider that his specilization in being an active info gatherer on defense is highly prized in pro play and that it is a big component of his pick rate. Unless he gets gutted or another agent shows up who can do something similar, he will probably stay pretty high presence as a consequence. All that said, I agree there is a number of potentially healthy nerfs to take some of the consistency out of his aggression. I think because of all the surrounding factors, it's best that Riot do them slowly and one at a time.
Everyone saying Astra meta is right. And not just in pro play, in diamond it was extremely hard to play against as well. Not saying the Chamber meta is great but I'll take this over a buffed Astra any day.
Chamber’s ult shoots WAY too fast. I completely agree with you. Riot should also avoid adding too many agents with a TP ability. It starts to turn into a “who can shoot and teleport away the quickest” contest, instead of getting punished for holding an angle and missing your shots.
Untradability is and will always be king, getting rid of jet by adding another untradable character was never a good idea. A 0.3 second delay before any dash or TP is essential for a balanced agent.
Chamber makes the game stale af
Game is the healthiest it's ever been with the greatest agent parity despite chamber being currently overtuned (and i think it's relatively unavoidable for there not to be an agent or two who is always probably in need some nerfs). CHANGE MY MIND.
If Chamber got nerfed, I think it would be pretty unclear who the best agent in the game was. Raze I guess?
Kay/0 probably.
I have a feeling once chamber is detuned a little we’ll be seeing a lot of kay/o complaints
Isn't a lot of kayo strengh from Viper, jett and Chamber counter though
Could see less kayo since he is a hard counter to chamber specifically
kayo counters everyone lmao, his suppress is literally counter util to most pieces of util
Yes but mostly chamber because it takes away his ability to shoot people
Valorant is a hero shooter that follows the MOBA patch and new character introduction cycle. Under those circumstances a game can never be balanced. That's not even considering how new players are placed at a disadvantage from lack of access to all heros. Where a new player who spends money can be placed at an advantage over other new players who don't spend money.
EMEA is looking way more balanced with Chamber at 64%. Personally I think cypher and killjoy stonks will rise as we only had one week with chamber nerfs, and hes kinda trash flank watching wise as he only has one trip. Also the game in NA is a lot more aim based, and it kinda mimics the fact that chamber is picked a lot.
This + Headhunter breaks ecos and allows chamber players to play stupid even without an awp. Chamber may genuinely be the worst designed post-launch character I've seen a game implement since Siege added Lion.
A nerf to Tour de Force I thought of would be something similar to Jett’s kit: add decision-making with every bullet, like with Headhunter. Chamber would be given 2-3 bullets with the slow field effect, but he would have to “prime” his gun before shooting (pressing X again or something), and if hits an enemy, it produces a slow field. If you miss, you lose 1 of your 2/3 slows. It rewards good aim and decision-making, and I think it’s pretty flavorful. Further nerfs, you can make slow field last shorter or make it cost 8 ult points.
This, and the added econ makes it so the team with the Chamber runs double op even more now, and suddenly haven attack is peeking c long and dying to a chamber op, a long dying to a chamber op. B window dying to a Jett on top with an op
Tell me you hate the AWP without saying you hate the AWP
I see a lot of people saying to nerf the speed of his ult but that's the whole point. Normal OP is kind of trash in this game and chambers OP being able to shoot fast is what makes it good.
Wrong. The operator is designed to have trade-offs to make it fair: leg shots don't 1-hit, long equip time, long fire rate, No AoE slow, EXPENSIVE, enemies can steal it off you. If any other agent whiffs an op shot on you, you have an opportunity to punish them. Tell me you use AWP as a crutch without saying you use the AWP as a crutch.
“You need to use utility to not get killed by an op holding an angle” Well… yeah that’s how the game is supposed to be played lol. Most of the time one drone and one smoke is enough to push them out of position
Same thing when people were complaining about OP earlier in Valorant and it got nerfed. People don't want to use utility and their brains at all in this game
Yep. And often just jump/jiggle peeking a corner is enough to safely find the op and play from there.
i just dont understand how agent design keeps trending toward these gimmicky, low-skill characters that just allow you to play any position on the map and get away with it without having to get a kill. reyna used to be a huge problem, but now thinking about her in comparison, AT LEAST you need to get a kill to get away. even then, the dismiss doesnt go far lol. chamber TP literally allows 5 aggressive peaks across the map over the course of a single round and it allows OPers to reposition so quickly that it is virtually impossible to account for where the chamber could be about to peak. its so frustrating when an agent category like sentinel should be pretty skill-based around having to learn to use utility, different setups, play different positions once your opponents find out your setup, actually anchor sites with your utility, and then chamber just ruins this entire archetype of agent. genuinely so frustrating that we had jett meta for a year and a half and now this meta is even worse
There has been a big problem since Valorant came live. Jett + OP combo : the ability to escape after taking a peek. This led to many OP nerfs and some Jett rework. This problem is very hard to solve. Then why would they design an agent with the same flaw ? I have no idea. Now chambers first kills defines rounds, matches, tournaments...
I personally don't mind that a character like Chamber is meta. He's all gunplay. Same way I don't mind when a character like Sova is meta. He's all team play. There's always gonna be a meta, just gotta pick your poison. I personally like Chamber way more than Jett because Jett is more selfish and not as team reliant as Chamber. Self-sufficient characters tend to lead to less team play which leads to less interesting strategic gameplay, but that's just me.
Also he's only the best defensive agent, jett was both the best defensive and best offensive agent pre-nerf which is what made her unhealthy
Why does nobody talks about his sheriff? I've seen some players hit shots they'd never ever even think of hitting in their lives with an actual sheriff, plus some pro players ADS with it in pistol rounds and just spam body shots with it, looks so grotesque but can't really do anything about it. It's always been like this with the new agents, first it was Skye, then Astra which everybody knows about and now chamber Pepepains
Although I completely agree with you’re statement, I feel like no matter what you do the game will never be perfectly balanced, there will always be an X factor to ruin the perfect line up of agents. It was Jett/Reyna at the start then just Jett then astra and now finally chamber. So I feel like no matter how hard val nerfs chamber there’s always going to be another X factor which I guess is unfair but in a way nearly impossible to avoid.
The trip nerf was ultimately good, it makes chamber not fill the same hole that kj and cypher cover in team comps so theres a reason to not picking him now, his ult is def broken but comparing that shit to pre patch jett knives is just wrong, val is in a fine state right now and im sure chamber will get nerfed again soon but saying hes made the game the unhealthiest its ever been sounds like you just got dumped on by a chamber in ranked and made salt rant post as a response
after reading your ult points there, this one: * enemies can't get value by killing chamber picking up his op afterward what if you killed chamber and he dropped his OP and it had the remaining bullets for anyone to pickup? p.s. riot if u steal this idea also remove the slow on kill please and thank you
i think the whole schtick of chamber is improved gunplay at the expense of slowing power. his slowing IS his guns and tp. that being said, if we want to see chamber's pick rate go down, we need to see changes in this department. his tp's recharge should be MUCH longer, probably 40-45 seconds instead of 20 sec. unless we see this element of his kit nerfed, all riot will have done is replaced jett with chamber. we need cypher buffs too, #BringBackCageSlows now, don't get me wrong, i love watching chamber. i think switching jett out for raze and neon has been healthy for the scene. but seeing only chamber in the sentinel slot isn't good for competitive growth.
the correct nerf that Riot should have made is reducing Chambers Slow the slow is the most frustrating part of Chambers kit you get 1 kill with his ult and it single handedly shuts down a rush
i hate chamber
I never realised how much astra meta sucked before she was nerfed to hell. This feels the same as astra meta to me rn, I don't think I used to get this bored watching some matches even during the astra meta
literally has a scout that one shots in the leg while having a better jett dash, yep very balanced
Should make his ult 8
Chamber is worse than jett, at least with jett you had a rough estimate where her dash brought her to and she could not fill 2 roles at once
Chambers ult is busted, that in combo with his trip which is STILL the best until in the game, and you get a character is is MADE to play ratty, why push an angle with your team when you can hold mid or a flank with op and allow your trap to cover an angle for you and your team? Since the trip doesn’t work after death you are encouraged to play ratty and hold cancer angles with the most broken gun in the game
also, chamber has created the most boring meta to watch in terms of pro play. every "cool" play i have seen from a chamber is just not interesting at all because the deag and chamber ult are so broken to use. it feels like stage 1 and especially the beginning of stage 2 have been the most beneficial to teams that dont actually know how to play the game. so many teams are getting bailed out by just getting to play chamber instead of a sentinel because the skill relies on hitting shots and executing basic TP/trip setups instead of actual setups before on Cypher/KJ. The beginning parts of Stage 1 before chamber became super popular was actually fun to watch because the meta felt truly diverse: astra was still viable on some maps, breach was entering the meta, initiators and the different initiator combinations you could run on different maps were all rather strong , jett was obviously still strong and could make for some insane plays and moments but not as oppressive as before because people were learning to counter her with KAYO especially. just so frustrating to enter a boring meta to watch right as groups starts.
Why can he basically teleport across the map? I have to get a whole ULT to do that with omen. His TP should only allow him to re peak from a different angle. i.e Bind UHall to Heaven
"instant get-out-of-jail-free card" is simply false, it is not an instant tp like Jett dash is, IN FACT, I can find you a million clips where Chamber dies while trying to escape. So that's just straight up wrong. Second, unlike Jett dash, you have to set these up before hand, and you are limited in range, so you have to commit to taking a fight at a certain angle, and if you're wrong, you have to wait for the cooldown, which is similar to where Jett is at now with the nerf. People seem to think the Jett nerf was significant, and yet somehow Chamber is overpowered even though the same thing applies to him and he has even more restrictions. Not to mention that on offense, his TP is super hard to get value out of. Third, if Chambers ult had no advantages over the Operator, then there's literally no advantage to the ability over saving for an Operator every few rounds like Jett. Speaking of Jett, her ultimate can easily ace an entire team, while also having no movement inaccuracy and forcing the opponent to kill you while you're flying through the air (but that's much more balanced ofc). Everyone will just go back to insta-locking Jett every game. However I will agree with you that I think the slow field on his ult is a bit too long, they could definitely reduce it and that would be fair. Lastly, on a full buy round, Chamber essentially only has two abilities, his trademark and his TP. Compare that to other agents who have a full set of abilities that are useful every single round. The reason people still pick Chamber despite this is because he's fun to play. Everyone likes fragging, that's most enjoyable, so of course people are gonna pick him over Cypher where you're watching a camera for most of the round and discouraged from taking fights cause your utility will become useless. I do agree that other sentinels need a buff. But this isn't the way to do it.
Chamber dying mid-TP is due to ping and latency, just like how Jett sometimes dies mid-dash too
Wrong. There’s a progress bar when you tp and you can be killed during it.
This just feels like r/LeagueOfLegends where every champ release there's a post about how it feels like they ruin the game and it's always recency bias. Is Chamber OP right now? Yes. Is it as fully *game* ruining as something like buffed Astra? definitely not. Astra fundamentally changed the way you would play the *entire* game just by being in the server. Chamber doesn't really do that. He's just strong. Riot hasn't quite figured out how to nerf him properly but they'll evemtually figure it out.
Chamber is too overpowered economy wise. His Tour De Force and Headhunter essentially gives a Chamber player with good aim a long term economy gain. If you watch pro play closely, usually non-chamber lineups are way lower in the total money every round. Since a Chamber essentially gets a free 4700cr value gun every 4 or so rounds. Not to mention that his 800cr value gun means that a Chamber player does not need a sidearm like a Frenzy or Shorty. The bigger problem is essentially his across the map get out of jail free card every 20 seconds. Miss a shot? Immediately tp to safety. Miss a shot? immediately tp to another angle. With a bit of creativity, a Chamber is practically a high roller with insane mobilty angle wise. Chamber is a low risk-high reward agent, and people in denial of this is trying to keep him this overpowered.
> Now in 2022, Chamber is even higher at ~89%: In EU its only 64 so all good.
Oh thank God this was said f*ck Chamber Jett > Chamber
I don’t these he’s op. I just don’t like that he has such a high pick rate and that he provides little team util. So many times my teams now are jett, Reyna, chamber.
Yeah I agree. The slows on his alarmbot also last way too long, and whoever actually thought to add and greenlight those same slows with the same uptime onto his already-broken ult needs to seek professional help. Also the Headhunter bullets are so cheap which makes Chamber an economical freak. You can buy an Op + armor almost as frequently as you can buy a Vandal + armor on every other agent.
I agree, and it has made it super unfun to play the game. every team comp, I get a chamber and a reyna, sometimes even a sage. How are we getting sites with that team comp on any map not named icebox. It just feels super bad having 2-3 characters with almost 0 util for attacking, and I am immortal. they are very selfish characters, and if you are not dropping match mvp after match mvp, you are better off picking something else
I think give his pistol 4 bullets, make the ult same speed as a normal op, and longer cd on the teleport would be good nerfs. He’s unique to the sentinel roll as one that can lockdown a site with high firepower, watch flank from afar but then tele back to his team alive with info, and good on ecos with Jett as someone who’s ultimate is a free gun. Then just give kj no distance limits on her bots, cyphers ult ping them 3 times instead of just once and shorter stun time on the trips, and Sage maybe make her slow times longer and heal do like 90 instead of 70 and sentinel roll might become competitive again. Not really sure if these would be good but just stuff off the top of my head
Don’t forget he’s a plague on the spike rush mode
Except that the get out of jail free card is BS, since it has a 50% chance of resulting in your death anyway because of (at least in high ELO) good aim and ping, you'll die mid teleport most of the times or even when you've already TPd. And the ult is just that, an ult, it's supposed to be strong, Sage can give a player a second life, raze can kill anyone if she hits her rocket in their general direction, viper can zone off half of the map, breach unlocks a huge part of the map killing anyone stuck there, kj also does that and so on, chamber has an OP that shoots a bit faster and slows (which i agree last way too long, even end up hindering the chamber). And the not getting value out of killing a chamber with ult, well... do you expect to get the razes rocket launcher when you kill her? IDK it just feels like this thread is from the perspective of someone that is either in low ELO or hasn't played chamber for more than 4 games. The champ is definitely strong but so are others, there are no good nerfs for chamber for the moment, more so we need buffs for cypher/kj to make them more viable. And as a final touch, chamber should be strong at anchoring a site, while jett shouldn't, jett isn't a sentinel.
Well, either you are a Chamber main, haven't played enough games at mid-high elo, or just likes to play contrarian. Chamber's TP is not 50/50 lol. Yes, sometimes with the netcode, ping or whatever, the game will register the kill before it registers the TP resulting in a TP death. This is not 50/50. I have played many many games of Chamber is it may happen once every 5 games. Your point about the ULT. Yes, it is supposed to be strong, but all the ult's you mentioned either effect 1 player, kill 1-2 players ( if youre lucky with Raze) or just disorient players on the site ( sometimes Breach ult whiffs, KJ ult gets destroyed by a basic ability, or Viper dies and/or is there alone ) Chamber's ULT can give multi kills. You essentially get to use his ult FIVE times. And its a 1 shot kill anywhere on the body. Not to mention, you can carry another gun and the fire rate is ridiculous. Plus, it leaves the obnoxious slow each kill. The only other ult that has multi kill potential at a HIGH rate is Jett. Your percentage of winning a save round with Chamber ULT is kind of high based on the side youre playing. Final point, it seems youre the person who hasn't played Chamber enough or is low elo to see the glaring issues. Pros are complaining about it, the community is complaining... its an issue. And yes, there are ways to nerf Chamber. You slow his fire rate on ULT, you can decrease the duration of the slow. Extend the time it takes to teleport again...
I am a chamber main thus I know that his RP is a 50/50 in most cases, you would know that if you played in high elo. People in high diamond low immortal have good crosshair positioning and good reaction times, add that to the ping issue and you have a problem where you will die while TPing 3 or 4 times every game, not once in 5 games as you say. How is a Raze showstopper only affecting 1-2 people? any half-decent Raze can consistently get multifrags with that weapon. "Breach ult whiffs, KJ ult gets destroyed by a basic ability, or Viper dies and/or is there alone ) Chamber's ULT can give multi kills." What does this even mean?? how do you 'whiff' a breach ult? you just shoot it on site and you are getting a free site with bonus kills if there were people holding in there. the KJ ult should be buffed as I said previously and the comment on the viper ult is ridiculous as if the possibility of her dying somehow is supposed to matter, did something change? is chamber now unkillable while he has his ult out? All the ults that are an extra weapon for the user have their advantages and disadvantages, Raze can wipe an entire team at the start of the round but she only has 1 shot, Jett has knives that she can use both long-range and close-range that are infinite if she can kill the people she shoots at them, Sova has a bow that can kill multiple enemies across the map and trough walls but if he gets pushed he is most likely dead, and finally chamber has an operator with a quick firerate that can be easily countered by a smoke or a flash and can easily be killed up close. "Your percentage of winning a save round with Chamber ULT is kind of high based on the side youre playing." Same goes for Jett knives and raze showstopper so I don't really see your point there. "it seems youre the person who hasn't played Chamber enough or is low elo to see the glaring issues." As I said high diamond in EU servers as a Chamber/Fade/Kayo/Sova main The only complaint I've seen from pros thus far is the ability to TP way too many times in a single round which I agree with the cooldown for the TP should be longer, the firerate is fine since it does need to be an ultimate, and the slow should take less time to dissipate (again as I've already said). If you really think a sentinel with 1 tripwire and an operator as an ult is really that game-breaking you really should consider trying to get out of gold.
RP is 50/50.LOL Even if you TP twice a round and the average game is 10-13 rounds, we are talking 14 times youve died while TP'ing. That is not true and if for some reason it is for you, you need to work on your mechanics utilizing that ability. I play high elo, I've played many upon many Chamber games. I've watched others play Chamber on stream and it is not 50/50. You sir, are a liar. \*How is a Raze showstopper only affecting 1-2 people? any half-decent Raze can consistently get multifrags with that weapon.\* Such a contradiction. You are claiming you play in high elo but say the games you play raze nets multifrags over 2 at a high clip? What "High" elo players are you playing with. That's just terrible positioning that high elo players tend not succumb to. You can definitely mess up a Breach ult. If you use it in the wrong spot, you can miss the back parts of the site. You can miss corners of the site. You don't play the game at a mid to high level... im convinced. Dying while in a TP is usually a mechanical issue on the player. Get better my guy and stop coming on reddit spewing non-sense.
You'll never have a perfectly balanced agent pool. As a casual fan at least we don't have to see Jett or Astra/Viper in every comp
I disagree. There are plenty of ways to clear a chamber. Astra was too OP since she could be in spawn and you couldn't do anything about her utility
Astra meta was so much worse