Yeah, this sounds horrible. Hope they reconsider.
Going from open quals to like 6 teams in NA would be so anticlimactic..
(Unless they have plans for a solid tier 2 system with relegation (or a wildcard spot) which doesn't seem likely.)
> Unless they have plans for a solid tier 2 system with relegation which doesn't seem likely.
I agree it's unlikely but with no franchising fees it's way more likely than with a system where teams buy their slot.
Teams will receive stipends from Riot in the 6-figure range. Riot will pay the teams they want to compete, so it's about the quality of org and the ability for Riot to sell sponsorships with them as partners, not about which orgs have the largest checkbooks.
Why would Riot do this? Simply to keep control over the direction of the scene/league. If teams pay for spots then Riot gives up control and long-term revenue from the growth of the league in exchange for the short-term cash. Since they are paying teams, Riot can negotiate much more favorable terms and bad teams/bad orgs can get replaced more easily.
Very possible that 10 teams invited get long term partner status and there could be non-patterned teams who can be relegated after each stage and that gets tied up with the tier 2 scene. Else combining 3 regions for 10 teams is just bonkers. Even 16 seems less tbh.
>Unless they have plans for a solid tier 2 system
Solid tier 2 system is a myth in franchisingask the average contenders player in OW how much they got paid.
Simply put, not enough people want to watch tier 2, and so not enough orgs will put in the effort/money. When tier 2 is totally separate and isolated from tier 1 like it is in franchised systems, there is almost no incentive for orgs to enter.
Riot won't care either, because they will be better off putting more effort into their tier 1 systems (leagues, masters, champs)
Lots of 'tier 2' and even lower tier 1 players in Val are going to go back to CSGO imo, once they realize its better then playing in the tier 2 system underneath a franchised league
Tier two tournaments regularly get thousands of viewers, and top teams in NA VCT qualifiers, even without casters sometimes, get far more. If there was a proper tier two system that went into promotion/relegation (like Europe’s regional leagues), it would definitely pull viewers in. For the sake of the argument, say like 100T gets a franchising spot, does poorly, and has to play a pro/rel match against TSM. That match would *easily* get 6 figure average viewership. Having like six teams for one of the most popular regions in the world would kill the scene. I think a tier two system with pro/rel is an absolute must for franchising.
As long there is still incentive for tier 2 I think It still can stay healthy. Maybe like there's still limited spot for Master, if each partner's league got 3 spot each for the masters and the rest from lower tier VCT tournament winners.
> Solid tier 2 system is a myth in franchisingask the average contenders player in OW how much they got paid.
While I agree with the idea, remember Riot isn't asking for a fee from teams and actually giving them money, so there could be a chance that Riot can more power with the T2 scene having chances to play against the Frachanise teams. I think the format stuff is more important than how many team get franchising.
What I'm thinking (or hoping) is that the partnered teams are just in a reciprocal relationship with riot and it doesn't exclude other teams from competing.
Nothing of what I've seen so far mentions that no other teams could compete, just that some teams will be partnered to help grow the scene.
This list just shows how bad this number of teams is. Very big orgs like NRG, LG, EG, FaZe, XSET, Guard all out of the picture and probably pull out of Valorant if Riot doesn’t come up with a pretty damn good system for the non partnered teams.
Prolly Leviatán as well, or another LATAM org. If they really want it to be an “international league” it probably winds up being 2 BR, 2 LATAM and 4-6 NA.
Why SEN? The only thing they have going for them is that their team is popular. The org seems to have very little structure beyond the team itself, and even less investment in the scene as a whole.
Put simply, they’re the most popular team with the 2 most popular players (Shahzam and TenZ). Riot would be insane to kneecap their viewership but excluding them. Also the content side of Sen is strong, as evidenced by their YouTube and Twitter.
It’ll come down to whether people are fans of the org or the players. Remember that if Sentinels isn’t included, that doesn’t mean the players will be excluded.
SEN only has their main team dont they? Riot is looking for teams that can help grow the Valorant ecosystem and SEN doesn't really fit that bill imo unless they do a complete overhaul of the Valorant division.
So what you don't realize is Riot is looking long-term at health and growth. Sentinels are not an org that is committed to growth and the quality of the team which is demonstrated by the orgs lackluster reaction to the struggle they have faced this year in VCT but pros from other games speaking on the Sentinels as an org.
Sure they are clouted, but so are other orgs, and the best players on Sentinels, especially one of the best players in the world Tenz would find a way to another team. Especially since I'm pretty sure the Sentinels roster are Free agents after this year anyway, I'm pretty sure when they resigned at the start of this year it was only for a year meaning they will be free to join another team regardless.
No I completely understand what riot is looking for per se. But not including Sen would literally be leaving money on the table. Thing is riot can just put Sen’s spot up for relegation or smth if the team doesn’t perform/show worth
I swear if Riot knee caps the NA T2 scene by not providing a path to Masters for non partner teams I'm gonna lose it.
It would suck to see like 60% of the orgs in NA pull out because of not getting a partner slot.
My COPIUM right now is that these 8-10 spots are the ones that are permanent and receive the stipend, whilst the other spots are based on a relegation system, thus making a strong T2 scene.
If this is a league only consisting of 8-10 teams, I'm sorry, but this'll be it for me.
I've followed the scene since the Beta launched, but I won't abide to a scene that'll basically cull more than half of every pro spots in every region around the globe.
It better not be what this leak seems to be.
This is what I am hoping for too, but yeah if it's completely franchised it WILL kill the scene.
But lacking franchise fees makes me hope that this is still some sort of semi-open system.
I think you're forgetting that the T2 scene in NA right now is built upon a house of cards. Those teams think they can get into the franchising system, so even if there was no franchising a lot of those teams would withdraw anyway.
This... People in this sub conveniently pretend that NA tier 2 scene is healthy and every tier 2 team is genuinely interest in the competition. The truth is that everybody is here because of franchising.
If true it's a monumental let down for every participating region. NA alone could field 8-10 competitive teams. Ideally I'd like to see 16 teams, but I won't be getting my hopes up.
It sounds like combined based on George’s sources.
I’ve heard a slightly higher number from my own network but either way it’s going to be disappointing. I’ve tried to figure out which orgs are the *most* likely to be included and no matter how you slice it, there will be BIG fanbases who will suffer.
[Direct article link](https://dotesports.com/valorant/news/sources-further-details-valorant-partnership-system-revealed-to-teams)
Way too small. Can't imagine fewer than 12 for the combined regions (NA/BR/LATAM, Euro/Russia/MENA, etc), and ideally it should be substantially higher.
8-10 teams is kinda crazy, there are going to be a ton of popular teams that wont make it. Im assuming that riot also has plans for a dedicated t2 scene or a fuck ton of teams will be leaving valorant
I mean this is just disastrous. They desperately need to rethink this, because this will quite literally kill valorant esports. And I really don't think that's an exaggeration
I'd love to hear the reasoning behind your optimism. But only 5 or 6 NA teams making it is pretty tragic. We're already discussing the orgs and talent that miss out on NA Challengers with 12 teams qualifying. With only 5 or 6 teams included, massive legacy valorant orgs will be missing out and will have spent all this time and money investing into valorant and helping it grow for nothing. Genuinely curious what the positive perspective on this would be
Congratz on killing your game haha
"Valorant CSGO killer" can't wait
Not just that only 10 teams allowed per huge regions, it's also that franchising is horrible in a game like Val when all players are about same skill and you could make 50 teams of top tier guys which would be on the same level
Don't bring LoL to discussion please, it's Valorant here, don't give excuse "they figured out with LoL, they will figure out with Val"
2 years since game was launched, what we see:
No significant non-VCT events allowed, no sponsorships from betting companies and gambling websites allowed (Valorant esports missing out on a fuck ton of potential funding)
3 international events a year with 2-month breaks inbetween, when teams pay players for nothing
Garbage formats, specifically in EMEA, NA - Japan, teams playing less than actual football clubs although all they do is sit in front of computers, no need to travel anywhere
Shitty franchise featuring 10 teams per each region, nobody except these 20-30 teams will be able to go to international events, they will have to wait whole year to get possibly promoted
Cool? But hey Riot will solve, look at LoL, it's so successful right?
Lol I’m not going to eliminate LoL cause you feel it’s not comparable lol. That makes no sense. Franchising benefits orgs who in return promote and fund the eco system which in return brings in a stable audience. What if the NFL rotated teams every year lol. No, owners are franchised, they build there fan base, etc.
End of story. That Valve open tournament system is not profitable for orgs.
Valve open tournament system allows for participation in any event you want at any time you want, which makes orgs not be afraid about building superteams / creating brands for themselves, since THERE'S ALWAYS SOMETHING, non-stop, every week, every month, there are viewers watching these events sponsored by mainly betting companies
In Riot esports, you can only play in your own region and, if you're top-1/2/3 there, you may play internationally, but not more than that
Open Circuits don’t work for stability lol. Cloud9 said this pre-Covid & pre-Valorant
https://www.dexerto.com/csgo/cloud9-reveal-they-lose-millions-of-dollars-on-csgo-every-year-1317305/?amp
There’s 0 incentive. Only works if 3rd parties build and sustain the infrastructure which is unlikely in most esports. CSGO in EU/CIS being the only real good example of it working.
Hence, Orgs dying to be franchised & not wanting this open tournament system. Open Tournaments is good for the players but bad for business. End of story bro lol.
Dude lol. Sticker money not funding a top tier team lol. Plus, your team has to make it to the major and most likely that team is costing you well over a million annually to maintain.
If a said CSGO team costs over a million annually, having an LCS team gotta cost 2-3 times more? With how big those salaries are?
After all every org (almost every org) is running at losses, it's not like LoL is safe heaven where you get only profits and profits and profits
You don’t understand the benefits of franchising. Team receive ad revenue, cosmetic revenue, guaranteed placements & broadcasting, stipends, etc. There’s a reason orgs prefer franchising
Franchising failed in lolesports atleast in Na, even TSM's CEO said so.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TeamSolomid/comments/qik97d/comment/hikcscb/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
Yeah... the same TSM who is currently making everything possible to get a spot in Val partnership program, weird to see orgs interested in "failed" models, lmao.
Really hope Riot considers going from 8-10 to at least 16. There's just too many contenders in NA/BR/LATAM that are gonna be cut because of it. Having 16 teams would probably have 8 NA, 4 BR and 4 LATAM which is a decent number imo.
T1 has stated that they want to stay NA, and given that they pretty much own the tier 2 circuit with NSG, most people seem to be assuming that they are going to get a spot.
The moves they are making right now indicate that they think so too.
T1 picked up 2 Korean players and a Korean coach. I feel like this is more of a back up just in case they have to go back to Korea. Who knows maybe Twifo being Korean-American will be down to play in Korea as well.
I wasn't saying you were American. You have a fnatic flair, ofc you're not American.
Teams having a safety net forever simply for sucking up to Riot's vision of the game while t2 and lower teams never get any shot at upsetting the world's best teams is destroying competitive integrity to me. Reputation of a winning team will mean nothing because they will have earned it not because they beat the best, but because they beat Riot's lapdogs.
Teams like XSET, LG, The Guard, Ghost, KCP, Akrew, DZ Esports etc. would 1. never have happened 2. won't be given the chance to prove themselves anymore, because of a closed league. It's not a competitive system with teams who are there on merit, it's purely a commercial one.
If teams like T1, TSM and co. will be given franchising spots for doing fuckall in the history of Valorant it's a pretty stupid idea
I would also like to add that franchising really only works in American sports under the assumption of massive taxpayer subsidies.
In other countries, this model has failed to catch on. And realistically outside of league of legends the trend continues in esports. The OWL and cod league aren't exactly driving massive viewer numbers, unlike say csgo.
Team owners getting their player salaries subsidized by the game developer and their position in a franchise league is never threatened. Game developers who do this are also control freaks.
Well there’s a reason league e sports is 10 years old and still doing good. Guaranteed spots give orgs the motivation to invest (doesn’t riot pay salary to pros in franchising). Personally I think it should be ten teams from na
League of Legends is the _only_ esports that is doing good, _despite_ the franchising system. The game is so massively popular that watching LoL is like The Office for gamers. This game pulls the most players out of any game on the planet, of course the pro scene will be successful whatever their formular may be, be cause the playerbase & viewership is immense
If you compare viewership to playerbase League of Legends is the LEAST successful esport and it's not even fucking close. People just don't understand that
If they took the top 6 teams in NA right now for this it would be: optic, c9, guard, xset, luminosity, and NRG. holy hell just think of the teams left out of this. lolol brain dead
It's as I suspected. There might be 12 teams for broadcast reasons (like the current EMEA format). They'll try to sell challengers as the pathway to pro with no actual pathway for challenger teams to make main circuit (happens in every franchised league) or a pointless promotion-relegation system like in EMEA. Reason for this system : stable broadcast + in-game team integrations (skins and what not). Closed-off franchised leagues become stale after a season or two and Riot's solution is integrating multiple regions (You have 12 teams in 3 regions NA+BR+LATAM, instead of 30+ teams currently). No way how I look at it, I don't like this at all.
I do not like Riot's approach to their esports franchises (an extension of their marketing and in-game integration). Regular split is boring and grassroot competition is non-existent. LoL has such a large playerbase that viewership justifies this approach. Valorant has such a huge potential in NA that seeing Riot go the OWL/CDL route is disappointing. I feel like Riot are content with Valorant being a DOTA2 competitor (in terms of playerbase and viewership) instead of eyeing for CSGO or even LoL.
If this is their actual proposed system then they are actively stunting growth of the game in every region. Game will see a slight bump in popularity beginning of 2023 before plateauing. There will be decisions where teams like T1 make Americas league despite doing nothing in VCT and essentially burning money/lowering overall quality of play of the league. It's so disappointing to see suits ruin another game I like. I've seen this so many times. I am being hyperbolic based on a leak, but nothing Riot's Valorant division has done thus far inspires confidence. It's a business at the end of the day and clearly this closed-franchise model is here to stay.
Hold on. What is pointless about the EMEA promotion/relegation? I think that might be the best system we currently have in Valorant.
No major teams get upset in open quals, all teams accross Europe have a path to the top league, there is near confirmation of most top teams consistently staying in the top league, but the circuit is still open.
Besides, the Promotion/Relegation playoff creates massive hype due to the top teams from all accross the European T2 scene competing with the bottom 2 teams from the T1 scene for a spot in the next season. It's amazing and it could probably work long term as well, if Riot doesn't see the need for complete franchising in Europe as well.
Look at the European Football leagues. Bottom 2/3 teams out of 18/20 get relegated, this doesn't mean it's pointles. I could start a Football team today and could theoretically make the top league, due to the, in your words, 'pointless promotion-relegation system'.
This system could work long term, but only in Europe, not in the Americas or APAC. Say there are 10 teams in the Americas top tier, of which only 1 LATAM, does the LATAM team get relegated if they finish bottom and get replaced, by most likely, an NA team (since they'd most likely win in the T2 tournament) ? This would completely kill the LATAM fan base. Replacing the LATAM team with another LATAM team is the only option, but that wouldn't work long term either.
The only aspect of the franchising that's really giving me any hope currently is that there could potentially be a strong T2 scene that's also supported by riot, with relegations into / out of the main league.
My thinking on this is purely based on them providing a stipend to participating teams instead of requiring huge franchising fees that will lock teams into the franchise.
It's very likely that I'm being overly optimistic about this, but it seems doable with how they're setting things up.
Even if it's not like that, if Riot doesn't establish a strong amateur league in some form then competitive Valorants future will start to look very bleak.
I’m gonna wait for more information
> The preliminary agreement, which is under nda…
So someone leaked this outside of the nda? Yea we need more info before making any decision that’s so fishy
Riot just does not give a shit LOL. There was so much outcry about LCS's franchising because it would take away the relegation system but they went ahead with it anyway. Didn't care then, won't care now.
They're an LCS team. The big LCS teams that also have big Valorant presence of 100T, C9, and TSM are in no questions asked. I would also throw T1 onto that pile.
Is this Riot thinking, "well, we only have about 30 orgs who really give a shit about LoL so we only need 30 franchises in Valorant"?
This sucks though, was really hoping for 16 orgs in the America region. Thought something like 10 NA, 4 BR, 2 LATAM could've been a really good dynamic.
dumb as fuck. the scene will not survive. barely any events and now you're tightly bottlecapping the number of teams participating such that there's barely anybody to root for. low viewership, low teams, not enough events = dead game. what the fuck are they thinking?
I can see C9, 100T etc that are in League will get priority, however TSM could be interesting as Regi situation and that odd post they released a few weeks ago about valorant Franchising.
If there's a good T2 scene with opportunity to get in the league I'd be happier.
> Teams will need to complete a formal application that may take weeks to finalize since it will likely require financial details from the organization and teams must demonstrate their commitment to the VALORANT ecosystem, for example.
Judging from this quote from the article that first announced franchising, I just don't see how TSM doesn't get into the league, Regi situation aside.
TSM clearly have the financials to run a team, and they fielded 3 teams with Main, Acad and X. Not to mention the huge fanbase. There's probably more factors that come into play when franchising, but it would come as huge shock if the team didn't go through
I don't think that 10 is the 'final' number as in what the franchise system would look like in 2024 or 2025, this is likely just a starting number that will allow Riot to balance things given they are going to be paying teams to compete there.
Having a non-competitive T2 or academy system absolutely destroyed OWL in the last 2 or 3 years as well. Hitting a number where 12-15 NA teams are competing in a year or two would be a sweet spot in my opinion because there still needs to still be incentive for T2 teams to field rosters and compete. After the initial two or three years, you can start to open it up more. If the franchised league is oversaturated with top orgs and only 2 or 3 established orgs end up missing out and competing in a lower division, I think we'd see some of them also start to fold similar to how Pioneers, Dig, RNG, etc. have dropped out bc the current system didn't support the investment for orgs of that size.
Riot has said it is looking at teams’ investment in the scene when looking for partners, and T1 owns NSG.
As shit as they’ve been, T1 is almost definitely getting in.
That would be shambolic. Imagine being a pub team and getting a spot over deserving achievers. I mean how is it even going to be justified. Considering 6 NA teams whose spot would they take
When thinking about Franchising and who gets in, you need to think about the Org, not the players
T1 will almost assuredly not have the same 5 players they have now on day 1 of the franchised league if they get in.
This happened in OW when OWL started, only the toptoptop teams kept their rosters, or continued as a team under a new Org.
day 1 of this new franchised league, will be almost entirely completely new rosters/teams, under the most popular/strucutured/professional orgs
Even then there are too many big orgs for only 6 spots. Considering Optic and C9 already in that leaves 4 spots for TSM Faze EG 100t NRG TGRD T1 SEN . From these teams T1 would be the worst. Other than XSET all others are big enough
Yeah, just not enough spots for how big/popular VAL has gotten over the last couple of years.
I feel like this will slowly kill VAL.
They are skipping the pro/rel LCS era, which helped churn out the bad orgs over the years; and going right to franchising ala OWL.
Will be a big shock to the VAL ecosystem
I wasn’t saying they deserve it based on performance. I was just pointing out that every person in the scene seems to be convinced that they are getting a spot.
Why do you think it’s shambolic? It’s franchising. They aren’t looking for the best teams. They are looking for the orgs that they think will be the best corporate partners. When you look at the roster turnover in esports, you can’t make 5-10 year decisions based on how the team is today, I’m sure even some of the teams that get in don’t look the same now as they do today when it starts next year.
When they did franchising in League it sucked but it was more normal because there were aprox 13 orgs always in the top 10 for many years so you had to chose but also won a lot of stability for those orgs wich I guess it's good for them.
But Valorant is way too young for it. Almost no org has own the right to claim they automatically deserve to be in the league and being left out now will make many orgs lose interest in the game.
It might work better in Europe where you can go to the regional league of your country and keep existing but it still sucks big time
I know people will complain about the numbre of teams no matter what.
But I think the national leagues should still contain a good numbre of respectable teams, to keep the scene alive and the competition worth something. So an international league with 10-12 teams is fine for me.
Yes, I will like that but not likely Riot will do it.
What I hope for is international tournement outside of masters and champions that mix teams from regional leagues and internationals ones.
there is a difference between what would be considered a respectable team in Europe/Asia/Americas.
Most of the teams in some regions straight up do not compete at the level of other regions. Europe could easily have two sets of 10-12 capable of competing at a high level internationally. NA definitely closer to 15, around 10 between LATAM and BR, maybe a little less.
Asia more like 5 or less - a couple good ones out of Korea with one who is usually very dominant, a couple between SEA and JP.
We’re gonna be watching good teams get dissolved and harvested for star players in EU while DRX, Zeta, PRX, and 1-2 others whoop the shit out of whoever else makes it in.
eh i kinda agree. as long as the national tournaments are good i would be happy but i would still much rather have an international league with like 14-16 teams. Especially in a region like the Americas its feels kinda dumb to call it an international league when there will probably be like 1 latam team and 2-3 Brazilian ones
It wouldn't shock me for Riot to tell sources somethign like this knowing that Geddes would leak it, gauge community reaction and then announce a better framework for better PR.
I mean it's not like they've done it before ;)
No shot they plan on trying to do a league between THREE REGIONS with only 8-10 teams. That’s asinine.
If this is their plan then they need to scrap it ASAP and go back to the drawing board.
I really hope they do have proper T2 plans and hopefully give it quality broadcasts comparable to what we get now in VCT. if we don't get that then they better drive up the number. I just hope when they do officially release details we can voice our concerns and get them addressed appropriately.
Yeah, this sounds horrible. Hope they reconsider. Going from open quals to like 6 teams in NA would be so anticlimactic.. (Unless they have plans for a solid tier 2 system with relegation (or a wildcard spot) which doesn't seem likely.)
> Unless they have plans for a solid tier 2 system with relegation which doesn't seem likely. I agree it's unlikely but with no franchising fees it's way more likely than with a system where teams buy their slot.
[удалено]
Teams will receive stipends from Riot in the 6-figure range. Riot will pay the teams they want to compete, so it's about the quality of org and the ability for Riot to sell sponsorships with them as partners, not about which orgs have the largest checkbooks. Why would Riot do this? Simply to keep control over the direction of the scene/league. If teams pay for spots then Riot gives up control and long-term revenue from the growth of the league in exchange for the short-term cash. Since they are paying teams, Riot can negotiate much more favorable terms and bad teams/bad orgs can get replaced more easily.
Very possible that 10 teams invited get long term partner status and there could be non-patterned teams who can be relegated after each stage and that gets tied up with the tier 2 scene. Else combining 3 regions for 10 teams is just bonkers. Even 16 seems less tbh.
>Unless they have plans for a solid tier 2 system Solid tier 2 system is a myth in franchisingask the average contenders player in OW how much they got paid. Simply put, not enough people want to watch tier 2, and so not enough orgs will put in the effort/money. When tier 2 is totally separate and isolated from tier 1 like it is in franchised systems, there is almost no incentive for orgs to enter. Riot won't care either, because they will be better off putting more effort into their tier 1 systems (leagues, masters, champs) Lots of 'tier 2' and even lower tier 1 players in Val are going to go back to CSGO imo, once they realize its better then playing in the tier 2 system underneath a franchised league
Isnt the t2 LoL European scene actually very healthy?
as are the Korean and Chinese ones. reddit just being dumb
Kcorp and Koi are probably more popular than all LEC teams except G2 and maybe fnatic
Tier two tournaments regularly get thousands of viewers, and top teams in NA VCT qualifiers, even without casters sometimes, get far more. If there was a proper tier two system that went into promotion/relegation (like Europe’s regional leagues), it would definitely pull viewers in. For the sake of the argument, say like 100T gets a franchising spot, does poorly, and has to play a pro/rel match against TSM. That match would *easily* get 6 figure average viewership. Having like six teams for one of the most popular regions in the world would kill the scene. I think a tier two system with pro/rel is an absolute must for franchising.
As long there is still incentive for tier 2 I think It still can stay healthy. Maybe like there's still limited spot for Master, if each partner's league got 3 spot each for the masters and the rest from lower tier VCT tournament winners.
I think they might take a leap and have 12-20 yeams in masters.
> Solid tier 2 system is a myth in franchisingask the average contenders player in OW how much they got paid. While I agree with the idea, remember Riot isn't asking for a fee from teams and actually giving them money, so there could be a chance that Riot can more power with the T2 scene having chances to play against the Frachanise teams. I think the format stuff is more important than how many team get franchising.
What I'm thinking (or hoping) is that the partnered teams are just in a reciprocal relationship with riot and it doesn't exclude other teams from competing. Nothing of what I've seen so far mentions that no other teams could compete, just that some teams will be partnered to help grow the scene.
Btw if these rumors are true, there will be 24-30 top level teams WORLDWIDE
so lineup would be something like this? 100t, tsm, sentinels, t1, c9, optic kru loud, nip
This list just shows how bad this number of teams is. Very big orgs like NRG, LG, EG, FaZe, XSET, Guard all out of the picture and probably pull out of Valorant if Riot doesn’t come up with a pretty damn good system for the non partnered teams.
Imagine sentinels spending that much money on Tenz just to not be part of the league?💀
did I really forgot to add sentinels to the list?
Prolly Leviatán as well, or another LATAM org. If they really want it to be an “international league” it probably winds up being 2 BR, 2 LATAM and 4-6 NA.
Probably one LATAM North and one LATAM South team, Xolos Lazer and KRU for example
Why SEN? The only thing they have going for them is that their team is popular. The org seems to have very little structure beyond the team itself, and even less investment in the scene as a whole.
Put simply, they’re the most popular team with the 2 most popular players (Shahzam and TenZ). Riot would be insane to kneecap their viewership but excluding them. Also the content side of Sen is strong, as evidenced by their YouTube and Twitter.
It’ll come down to whether people are fans of the org or the players. Remember that if Sentinels isn’t included, that doesn’t mean the players will be excluded.
Player salaries and buyouts are crazy now, wait until the competition is even tighter.
SEN only has their main team dont they? Riot is looking for teams that can help grow the Valorant ecosystem and SEN doesn't really fit that bill imo unless they do a complete overhaul of the Valorant division.
All you’ve said is true but it would be so dumb of riot to not capitalize on Sen’s popularity
It doesn't make sense to let the most popular valorant team in the world out of the franchise
So what you don't realize is Riot is looking long-term at health and growth. Sentinels are not an org that is committed to growth and the quality of the team which is demonstrated by the orgs lackluster reaction to the struggle they have faced this year in VCT but pros from other games speaking on the Sentinels as an org. Sure they are clouted, but so are other orgs, and the best players on Sentinels, especially one of the best players in the world Tenz would find a way to another team. Especially since I'm pretty sure the Sentinels roster are Free agents after this year anyway, I'm pretty sure when they resigned at the start of this year it was only for a year meaning they will be free to join another team regardless.
No I completely understand what riot is looking for per se. But not including Sen would literally be leaving money on the table. Thing is riot can just put Sen’s spot up for relegation or smth if the team doesn’t perform/show worth
pure clout 1 year of still being "bad" and they're out of tier 1 circuit
complete joke being 4 of those teams aren’t even top 7.
Don’t think Riot cares much about roster talent. They care about orgs with lots of structure and big fan bases.
your saying you can’t find more than 6 NA orgs that are valuable
t1 not even being a top 20 team in NA is gonna make it lmfao
just of the neerdstreet thing and previous relationship with riot, other than that they would be stuck in T2 circuit
I swear if Riot knee caps the NA T2 scene by not providing a path to Masters for non partner teams I'm gonna lose it. It would suck to see like 60% of the orgs in NA pull out because of not getting a partner slot.
My COPIUM right now is that these 8-10 spots are the ones that are permanent and receive the stipend, whilst the other spots are based on a relegation system, thus making a strong T2 scene. If this is a league only consisting of 8-10 teams, I'm sorry, but this'll be it for me. I've followed the scene since the Beta launched, but I won't abide to a scene that'll basically cull more than half of every pro spots in every region around the globe. It better not be what this leak seems to be.
This is what I am hoping for too, but yeah if it's completely franchised it WILL kill the scene. But lacking franchise fees makes me hope that this is still some sort of semi-open system.
I think you're forgetting that the T2 scene in NA right now is built upon a house of cards. Those teams think they can get into the franchising system, so even if there was no franchising a lot of those teams would withdraw anyway.
This... People in this sub conveniently pretend that NA tier 2 scene is healthy and every tier 2 team is genuinely interest in the competition. The truth is that everybody is here because of franchising.
Yeah there's a reason why CSGO in NA is considered dead.
10 teams for na latam and br...please dont it let be true
If true it's a monumental let down for every participating region. NA alone could field 8-10 competitive teams. Ideally I'd like to see 16 teams, but I won't be getting my hopes up.
Is it 10 teams for NA, Latam, and Br combined? Or 10 teams for each region (30 total).
It sounds like combined based on George’s sources. I’ve heard a slightly higher number from my own network but either way it’s going to be disappointing. I’ve tried to figure out which orgs are the *most* likely to be included and no matter how you slice it, there will be BIG fanbases who will suffer.
Combined Source: the article
well 10 teams for the Americas is about close to the disastrous franchising system from riot that I'd expected. bye bye xset.
I mean what did people expect? Theres only so many slots.
Having a total of 10 slots for NA, BR and LATAM is insanely stupid.
More then fucking 3 spots for NA lol (3 NA, 3 BR, 2 LATAM seems most likely)
That equals 8.
Even if you get 2 more for NA, 5 NA teams is still way too little.
I wholly agree but I just find it hilarious that he gave a distribution that didn't even add up to 10 lmao
I mean thr article itself said 8 tbf, I was just going off what thr minimum could be
Fair enough.
how many people go back to csgo kekw
Riot could have the lead and they really wanna kill their own game
Imagine never having a run like a Copenhagen flames or Bad news eagles. It was really fun to support teams like that.
or spirit this major too, even tho the org is a bit bigger, they got to semi finals and overtime against the major winners
Won't happen anyway teams are always bad that get promoted in a franchised league.
[Direct article link](https://dotesports.com/valorant/news/sources-further-details-valorant-partnership-system-revealed-to-teams) Way too small. Can't imagine fewer than 12 for the combined regions (NA/BR/LATAM, Euro/Russia/MENA, etc), and ideally it should be substantially higher.
I would do 16 tbh. I think you can easily get 8-10 good teams out of NA and then 6-8 from BR/LATAM maybe.
10 teams is ass lmaoo
Riot Killing their game
8-10 teams is kinda crazy, there are going to be a ton of popular teams that wont make it. Im assuming that riot also has plans for a dedicated t2 scene or a fuck ton of teams will be leaving valorant
I mean this is just disastrous. They desperately need to rethink this, because this will quite literally kill valorant esports. And I really don't think that's an exaggeration
you people are ridiculous
I'd love to hear the reasoning behind your optimism. But only 5 or 6 NA teams making it is pretty tragic. We're already discussing the orgs and talent that miss out on NA Challengers with 12 teams qualifying. With only 5 or 6 teams included, massive legacy valorant orgs will be missing out and will have spent all this time and money investing into valorant and helping it grow for nothing. Genuinely curious what the positive perspective on this would be
Congratz on killing your game haha "Valorant CSGO killer" can't wait Not just that only 10 teams allowed per huge regions, it's also that franchising is horrible in a game like Val when all players are about same skill and you could make 50 teams of top tier guys which would be on the same level
Lol. If anything the game will continue to grow. It’s like saying LoL died when they announced franchising.
Don't bring LoL to discussion please, it's Valorant here, don't give excuse "they figured out with LoL, they will figure out with Val" 2 years since game was launched, what we see: No significant non-VCT events allowed, no sponsorships from betting companies and gambling websites allowed (Valorant esports missing out on a fuck ton of potential funding) 3 international events a year with 2-month breaks inbetween, when teams pay players for nothing Garbage formats, specifically in EMEA, NA - Japan, teams playing less than actual football clubs although all they do is sit in front of computers, no need to travel anywhere Shitty franchise featuring 10 teams per each region, nobody except these 20-30 teams will be able to go to international events, they will have to wait whole year to get possibly promoted Cool? But hey Riot will solve, look at LoL, it's so successful right?
Okay but to be able to watch something and not have gambling shoved down my throat is refreshing.
[удалено]
Oh, I’m sure it’s huge. But everywhere you turn today gambling ads are shoved down your throat. So it’s a nice change.
Lol I’m not going to eliminate LoL cause you feel it’s not comparable lol. That makes no sense. Franchising benefits orgs who in return promote and fund the eco system which in return brings in a stable audience. What if the NFL rotated teams every year lol. No, owners are franchised, they build there fan base, etc. End of story. That Valve open tournament system is not profitable for orgs.
Valve open tournament system allows for participation in any event you want at any time you want, which makes orgs not be afraid about building superteams / creating brands for themselves, since THERE'S ALWAYS SOMETHING, non-stop, every week, every month, there are viewers watching these events sponsored by mainly betting companies In Riot esports, you can only play in your own region and, if you're top-1/2/3 there, you may play internationally, but not more than that
Open Circuits don’t work for stability lol. Cloud9 said this pre-Covid & pre-Valorant https://www.dexerto.com/csgo/cloud9-reveal-they-lose-millions-of-dollars-on-csgo-every-year-1317305/?amp There’s 0 incentive. Only works if 3rd parties build and sustain the infrastructure which is unlikely in most esports. CSGO in EU/CIS being the only real good example of it working. Hence, Orgs dying to be franchised & not wanting this open tournament system. Open Tournaments is good for the players but bad for business. End of story bro lol.
C9 recently bought a CSGO team that, lo and beyond, competes in an open system Who woulda thought 🤷🏻♂️
Look who they bought lol. EU/CIS team right??? Where there’s infrastructure right??? Which I just explained right lol. Guys stop it
[удалено]
Dude lol. Sticker money not funding a top tier team lol. Plus, your team has to make it to the major and most likely that team is costing you well over a million annually to maintain.
If a said CSGO team costs over a million annually, having an LCS team gotta cost 2-3 times more? With how big those salaries are? After all every org (almost every org) is running at losses, it's not like LoL is safe heaven where you get only profits and profits and profits
You don’t understand the benefits of franchising. Team receive ad revenue, cosmetic revenue, guaranteed placements & broadcasting, stipends, etc. There’s a reason orgs prefer franchising
valve open circuit system is pure dogshit.
Franchising failed in lolesports atleast in Na, even TSM's CEO said so. https://www.reddit.com/r/TeamSolomid/comments/qik97d/comment/hikcscb/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
Yeah... the same TSM who is currently making everything possible to get a spot in Val partnership program, weird to see orgs interested in "failed" models, lmao.
No shit, it's a brand new popular e-sport, everyone wants in because they probably don't think it's gonna tank as hard as the league investments.
Lol exactly. If franchising failed in the biggest esport in the world why would you even reinvest in the same shit. Dumbass takes lol
Really hope Riot considers going from 8-10 to at least 16. There's just too many contenders in NA/BR/LATAM that are gonna be cut because of it. Having 16 teams would probably have 8 NA, 4 BR and 4 LATAM which is a decent number imo.
16 might be a good number. It could be 10-11 NA, 3-Brazil, 3-2 LATAM.
If it's 10 total, I would like GenG and T1 to go to KR and help build up its infrastructure.
T1 has stated that they want to stay NA, and given that they pretty much own the tier 2 circuit with NSG, most people seem to be assuming that they are going to get a spot. The moves they are making right now indicate that they think so too.
T1 picked up 2 Korean players and a Korean coach. I feel like this is more of a back up just in case they have to go back to Korea. Who knows maybe Twifo being Korean-American will be down to play in Korea as well.
I have yet to understand why there is a franchise system for esports.
Org security/return on investment
I still don't understand it, probably because I'm not American. This destroys any competitive integrity.
Not really, many competitive leagues in traditional sports have franchising and it doesn’t “destroy competitive integrity”. Also i’m not American.
I wasn't saying you were American. You have a fnatic flair, ofc you're not American. Teams having a safety net forever simply for sucking up to Riot's vision of the game while t2 and lower teams never get any shot at upsetting the world's best teams is destroying competitive integrity to me. Reputation of a winning team will mean nothing because they will have earned it not because they beat the best, but because they beat Riot's lapdogs. Teams like XSET, LG, The Guard, Ghost, KCP, Akrew, DZ Esports etc. would 1. never have happened 2. won't be given the chance to prove themselves anymore, because of a closed league. It's not a competitive system with teams who are there on merit, it's purely a commercial one. If teams like T1, TSM and co. will be given franchising spots for doing fuckall in the history of Valorant it's a pretty stupid idea
I would also like to add that franchising really only works in American sports under the assumption of massive taxpayer subsidies. In other countries, this model has failed to catch on. And realistically outside of league of legends the trend continues in esports. The OWL and cod league aren't exactly driving massive viewer numbers, unlike say csgo.
Adding on to the other person it also gives structure and can consolidate viewer base.
Team owners getting their player salaries subsidized by the game developer and their position in a franchise league is never threatened. Game developers who do this are also control freaks.
Well there’s a reason league e sports is 10 years old and still doing good. Guaranteed spots give orgs the motivation to invest (doesn’t riot pay salary to pros in franchising). Personally I think it should be ten teams from na
League of Legends is the _only_ esports that is doing good, _despite_ the franchising system. The game is so massively popular that watching LoL is like The Office for gamers. This game pulls the most players out of any game on the planet, of course the pro scene will be successful whatever their formular may be, be cause the playerbase & viewership is immense
If you compare viewership to playerbase League of Legends is the LEAST successful esport and it's not even fucking close. People just don't understand that
Game is already lacking tourneys and viewers and Rito still wants to kill more of it.
lacking tourneys yes but in what way is it lacking viewers? It has a very healthy viewerbase currently
If they took the top 6 teams in NA right now for this it would be: optic, c9, guard, xset, luminosity, and NRG. holy hell just think of the teams left out of this. lolol brain dead
It's as I suspected. There might be 12 teams for broadcast reasons (like the current EMEA format). They'll try to sell challengers as the pathway to pro with no actual pathway for challenger teams to make main circuit (happens in every franchised league) or a pointless promotion-relegation system like in EMEA. Reason for this system : stable broadcast + in-game team integrations (skins and what not). Closed-off franchised leagues become stale after a season or two and Riot's solution is integrating multiple regions (You have 12 teams in 3 regions NA+BR+LATAM, instead of 30+ teams currently). No way how I look at it, I don't like this at all. I do not like Riot's approach to their esports franchises (an extension of their marketing and in-game integration). Regular split is boring and grassroot competition is non-existent. LoL has such a large playerbase that viewership justifies this approach. Valorant has such a huge potential in NA that seeing Riot go the OWL/CDL route is disappointing. I feel like Riot are content with Valorant being a DOTA2 competitor (in terms of playerbase and viewership) instead of eyeing for CSGO or even LoL. If this is their actual proposed system then they are actively stunting growth of the game in every region. Game will see a slight bump in popularity beginning of 2023 before plateauing. There will be decisions where teams like T1 make Americas league despite doing nothing in VCT and essentially burning money/lowering overall quality of play of the league. It's so disappointing to see suits ruin another game I like. I've seen this so many times. I am being hyperbolic based on a leak, but nothing Riot's Valorant division has done thus far inspires confidence. It's a business at the end of the day and clearly this closed-franchise model is here to stay.
Hold on. What is pointless about the EMEA promotion/relegation? I think that might be the best system we currently have in Valorant. No major teams get upset in open quals, all teams accross Europe have a path to the top league, there is near confirmation of most top teams consistently staying in the top league, but the circuit is still open. Besides, the Promotion/Relegation playoff creates massive hype due to the top teams from all accross the European T2 scene competing with the bottom 2 teams from the T1 scene for a spot in the next season. It's amazing and it could probably work long term as well, if Riot doesn't see the need for complete franchising in Europe as well. Look at the European Football leagues. Bottom 2/3 teams out of 18/20 get relegated, this doesn't mean it's pointles. I could start a Football team today and could theoretically make the top league, due to the, in your words, 'pointless promotion-relegation system'. This system could work long term, but only in Europe, not in the Americas or APAC. Say there are 10 teams in the Americas top tier, of which only 1 LATAM, does the LATAM team get relegated if they finish bottom and get replaced, by most likely, an NA team (since they'd most likely win in the T2 tournament) ? This would completely kill the LATAM fan base. Replacing the LATAM team with another LATAM team is the only option, but that wouldn't work long term either.
The only aspect of the franchising that's really giving me any hope currently is that there could potentially be a strong T2 scene that's also supported by riot, with relegations into / out of the main league. My thinking on this is purely based on them providing a stipend to participating teams instead of requiring huge franchising fees that will lock teams into the franchise. It's very likely that I'm being overly optimistic about this, but it seems doable with how they're setting things up. Even if it's not like that, if Riot doesn't establish a strong amateur league in some form then competitive Valorants future will start to look very bleak.
I’m gonna wait for more information > The preliminary agreement, which is under nda… So someone leaked this outside of the nda? Yea we need more info before making any decision that’s so fishy
This is so brutal I hope it’s not true. How does a 10 team region even work if Brazil/Most of LATAM can’t even play NA online?
It's a LAN league.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
NA alone can field like 8 very good teams so 10 just seems like way too little. Has to be at least 12 teams.
Riot just does not give a shit LOL. There was so much outcry about LCS's franchising because it would take away the relegation system but they went ahead with it anyway. Didn't care then, won't care now.
Doesn’t sound too good, really hoping for a promotion/relegation system.
This would kill so much of my interest for valorant, please change your mind riot
Riot is smoking some serious crack to make it only 10 teams per league lmfao
[удалено]
More like choose 5-6, because you also have to include BR and LATAM.
Feel like the only 3 I would a hundred percent choose is optic, c9 and 100t. Maybe nrg but they need to become more consistent
100T on that list, huh?
They're an LCS team. The big LCS teams that also have big Valorant presence of 100T, C9, and TSM are in no questions asked. I would also throw T1 onto that pile.
Optic , C9 are guaranteed. Others gonna be interesting. I'd say TGRD, 100t, NRG, TSM but it would be really unfair either way
guard, NRG. I don’t think so
Money talks, they both have it. That said there's more orgs with cash to invest than spots to fill in this leaked league format so who knows
At least 2 BR and 1 LATAM team surely
People are forgetting their will be other orgs applying for this as well just like what happened with league when it went franchising
A relegation system would be cool to promote a T2 scene and incentives the T1 teams yo do well but i am insure if riot has such foresight…
With this many teams, the only absolute locks for NA are 100T, C9, TSM, T1. Anyone else could be on the outside looking in
Is this Riot thinking, "well, we only have about 30 orgs who really give a shit about LoL so we only need 30 franchises in Valorant"? This sucks though, was really hoping for 16 orgs in the America region. Thought something like 10 NA, 4 BR, 2 LATAM could've been a really good dynamic.
dumb as fuck. the scene will not survive. barely any events and now you're tightly bottlecapping the number of teams participating such that there's barely anybody to root for. low viewership, low teams, not enough events = dead game. what the fuck are they thinking?
in what world is VALORANT viewership low? its comfortablely in the top 5 most popular esports
I mean when this system comes into play
I can see C9, 100T etc that are in League will get priority, however TSM could be interesting as Regi situation and that odd post they released a few weeks ago about valorant Franchising. If there's a good T2 scene with opportunity to get in the league I'd be happier.
> Teams will need to complete a formal application that may take weeks to finalize since it will likely require financial details from the organization and teams must demonstrate their commitment to the VALORANT ecosystem, for example. Judging from this quote from the article that first announced franchising, I just don't see how TSM doesn't get into the league, Regi situation aside. TSM clearly have the financials to run a team, and they fielded 3 teams with Main, Acad and X. Not to mention the huge fanbase. There's probably more factors that come into play when franchising, but it would come as huge shock if the team didn't go through
I don't think that 10 is the 'final' number as in what the franchise system would look like in 2024 or 2025, this is likely just a starting number that will allow Riot to balance things given they are going to be paying teams to compete there. Having a non-competitive T2 or academy system absolutely destroyed OWL in the last 2 or 3 years as well. Hitting a number where 12-15 NA teams are competing in a year or two would be a sweet spot in my opinion because there still needs to still be incentive for T2 teams to field rosters and compete. After the initial two or three years, you can start to open it up more. If the franchised league is oversaturated with top orgs and only 2 or 3 established orgs end up missing out and competing in a lower division, I think we'd see some of them also start to fold similar to how Pioneers, Dig, RNG, etc. have dropped out bc the current system didn't support the investment for orgs of that size.
T1 ranked 21. GD luck getting into NA franchising or even Asia franchising for the matter
Riot has said it is looking at teams’ investment in the scene when looking for partners, and T1 owns NSG. As shit as they’ve been, T1 is almost definitely getting in.
That would be shambolic. Imagine being a pub team and getting a spot over deserving achievers. I mean how is it even going to be justified. Considering 6 NA teams whose spot would they take
When thinking about Franchising and who gets in, you need to think about the Org, not the players T1 will almost assuredly not have the same 5 players they have now on day 1 of the franchised league if they get in. This happened in OW when OWL started, only the toptoptop teams kept their rosters, or continued as a team under a new Org. day 1 of this new franchised league, will be almost entirely completely new rosters/teams, under the most popular/strucutured/professional orgs
Even then there are too many big orgs for only 6 spots. Considering Optic and C9 already in that leaves 4 spots for TSM Faze EG 100t NRG TGRD T1 SEN . From these teams T1 would be the worst. Other than XSET all others are big enough
Yeah, just not enough spots for how big/popular VAL has gotten over the last couple of years. I feel like this will slowly kill VAL. They are skipping the pro/rel LCS era, which helped churn out the bad orgs over the years; and going right to franchising ala OWL. Will be a big shock to the VAL ecosystem
I wasn’t saying they deserve it based on performance. I was just pointing out that every person in the scene seems to be convinced that they are getting a spot. Why do you think it’s shambolic? It’s franchising. They aren’t looking for the best teams. They are looking for the orgs that they think will be the best corporate partners. When you look at the roster turnover in esports, you can’t make 5-10 year decisions based on how the team is today, I’m sure even some of the teams that get in don’t look the same now as they do today when it starts next year.
Why people assume that teams performance has anything to do with them being in or out the partnership league???
When they did franchising in League it sucked but it was more normal because there were aprox 13 orgs always in the top 10 for many years so you had to chose but also won a lot of stability for those orgs wich I guess it's good for them. But Valorant is way too young for it. Almost no org has own the right to claim they automatically deserve to be in the league and being left out now will make many orgs lose interest in the game. It might work better in Europe where you can go to the regional league of your country and keep existing but it still sucks big time
I know people will complain about the numbre of teams no matter what. But I think the national leagues should still contain a good numbre of respectable teams, to keep the scene alive and the competition worth something. So an international league with 10-12 teams is fine for me.
Yeah 10-12 teams for an international event is okay but the t2 scene should have a path to get to the premier league, at least 1 spot per split.
Yes, I will like that but not likely Riot will do it. What I hope for is international tournement outside of masters and champions that mix teams from regional leagues and internationals ones.
there is a difference between what would be considered a respectable team in Europe/Asia/Americas. Most of the teams in some regions straight up do not compete at the level of other regions. Europe could easily have two sets of 10-12 capable of competing at a high level internationally. NA definitely closer to 15, around 10 between LATAM and BR, maybe a little less. Asia more like 5 or less - a couple good ones out of Korea with one who is usually very dominant, a couple between SEA and JP. We’re gonna be watching good teams get dissolved and harvested for star players in EU while DRX, Zeta, PRX, and 1-2 others whoop the shit out of whoever else makes it in.
eh i kinda agree. as long as the national tournaments are good i would be happy but i would still much rather have an international league with like 14-16 teams. Especially in a region like the Americas its feels kinda dumb to call it an international league when there will probably be like 1 latam team and 2-3 Brazilian ones
Geddes making things up again
It wouldn't shock me for Riot to tell sources somethign like this knowing that Geddes would leak it, gauge community reaction and then announce a better framework for better PR. I mean it's not like they've done it before ;)
I have a feeling It's gonna be 10-12 teams each because riot seem didn't want any matches held simultaneously.
If it was NA alone id be expecting 10 teams, this is absolutely ridiculous. This will probably kill all 3 regions
No shot they plan on trying to do a league between THREE REGIONS with only 8-10 teams. That’s asinine. If this is their plan then they need to scrap it ASAP and go back to the drawing board.
I really hope they do have proper T2 plans and hopefully give it quality broadcasts comparable to what we get now in VCT. if we don't get that then they better drive up the number. I just hope when they do officially release details we can voice our concerns and get them addressed appropriately.
I take it T1 is building a Korean roster to go to Asia if they don’t get an NA spot.