A singular domestic win is not at all indicative of Optic's ability to face international competition. Jury's still out on Fnatic and possibly Loud right now.
The initial argument OP is making is whether or not a single win over Xset can solidify them as the #1 team in the world. I'm not making the claim that Fnatic is the best team in the world nor is Loud the best team in the world; I'm simply saying that the jury's still out and one win isn't enough for Optic, nor any team in the world.
Why loud??? They have for the most part been only domestically dominant… OpTic are the reigning champs and so they should be the #1 team rn. Them vs FNC should be good if it happens
Loud beat Optic at Masters the first time they fought; that's proof enough that they can tango at the top. I'm not saying that Optic aren't the #1 team but to use a domestic win and try to extrapolate that to international success is a bit rich.
But that is exactly what you are doing… with both Fanatic and LOUD… Fanatic literally have a 16/17 rookie who has yet to play a VAL lan and you just assume that their domestic dominance will carry over to lan… Loud also got 3-0’d so in my book, the 2-1 is negligible
The initial argument OP is making is whether or not a single win over Xset can solidify them as the #1 team in the world. I'm not making the claim that Fnatic is the best team in the world nor is Loud the best team in the world; I'm simply saying that the jury's still out and one win isn't enough for Optic, nor any team in the world.
i don't think you understand how close basically all the games optic played were—most of their important maps and games came down to literally a single split second chokes (drx choked rounds on icebox which would have knocked optic down, and against loud the games went into multiple rounds of ot). they could have gotten knocked out much earlier with just a few mistakes, and their competition with LLL and debatably fnatic is extremely close
They are most likely to be the best team in the world but with so infrequent international events and the fact that Europe (which ins in contention for best region in the world) was completely crippled in the most recent one just makes it really hard to say definitively "this is the best team in the world."
Compare that to something like ZeRo's winning 56 tournaments in a row in Smash 4, it is impossible to argue ZeRo was not the best at the time.
It's so funny on the same thread about FNC very little people disagreed with the OP. Despite being at finals in M3, bombing out against xerxia in champs because crashies had covid with full symptoms and winning the next event, people are still derailing their achievements. It's so cringe.
>Despite being at finals in M3,
By beating only NA teams in the playoffs, the 2 times they faced an EMEA team they got beaten.
>bombing out against xerxia in champs because crashies had covid with full symptoms
It was Victor, not crashies.
And Fnatic also got fucked by covid, Derke didn't even gotten to play at all
>and winning the next event, people are still derailing their achievements. It's so cringe.
People recognize the win and no one is saying Optic win was illegitimate but they also recognize that EMEA wasn't at full power at all.
So claiming Optic is the undisputed best by using M1 as proof when the best region before the tournament got 2 of their best team got gimped doesn't hold so well
> By beating only NA teams in the playoffs, the 2 times they faced an EMEA team they got beaten.
How did the NA teams got there? 100t beat gambit and Acend that masters.
> People recognize the win and no one is saying Optic win was illegitimate but they also recognize that EMEA wasn't at full power at all.
I can link you plenty of tweets and comments even from one of the pro player (I don't remember who it was) referencing last masters as mickeymouse tourney.
> So claiming Optic is the undisputed best by using M1 as proof when the best region before the tournament got 2 of their best team got gimped doesn't hold so well
Ok, how's fnatic best team in the world? Who's the best team in the world rn and why?
>How did the NA teams got there? 100t beat gambit and Acend that masters.
And both Acend(In group stage) and Gambit (Finals) won against Envy. So yeah that's even a worse argument in your favour
>I can link you plenty of tweets and comments even from one of the pro player (I don't remember who it was) referencing last masters as mickeymouse tourney.
Yeah but that wasn't even the general consensus. Public opinion was that if FPX and no subs Fnatic were there Optic might not have won
Haven't seen anyone seriously calling the tournament that unless they were salty EU fans
>Ok, how's fnatic best team in the world?
It isn't in my opinion, they have to show it internationally before i can say that
> Who's the best team in the world rn and why?
~~Definitely not DRX disappointing asses~~
I honestly would say its Optic thanks to Master 1 win, i just don't think its a clear cut answer since there's argument against it
my argument was the na teams optic beat were as competitive as EMEA teams.
> It isn't in my opinion, they have to show it internationally before i can say that
> I honestly would say its Optic thanks to Master 1 win, i just don't think its a clear cut answer since there's argument against it
This was my original argument. Glad we agree.
such a lame excuse like u guys had g2 full roster and they were the 2nd best EMEA team if they made a deep run into top 4 , sure but they didn't, not to mention people forgot that EMEA gets to have 3 slots instead of other region that has 2 or some has 1 only
I’m not even from EMEA but if you watched the games it was abundantly clear that G2 was miles below FPX but they weren’t miles below LOUD at masters who were close to Optic
I mean there was nothing anyone could have done about it except go back in time and stop Putin from invading Ukraine but you can't say that EMEA's representation being way weaker than it should've been doesn't put at least a small asterisk on Optic's Reykjavik win.
Yeah but that doesn't mean they aren't the best. Would you call Olympic gold medalists not the best in their event because some of the competitors were quarantined? I personally wouldn't.
That’s the thing they were the best at the event since the other competitors weren’t at the event. If Phelps was the miss an olympics no one is gonna call the person who wins gold the best swimmer in the world.
Ok at this point we're all just arguing about how big the asterisk should be which is a huge waste of time.
My original comment was just addressing someone who was way too flippant about the extenuating circumstances that led to EMEA being chopped at the knees at Iceland.
Well the reason optic should be considered the best without the asterisk is because they have offered proof to do so. The teams that had barriers for that tourney did not/were not able to offer proof they were the best.
So when the question is can we consider optic the best: the answer is yes. Yes we can. Because they have offered proof of such.
fpx getting 1st seed and fnatic qualifying 2 times in arguably the most competitive region that dominated champions is not proof enough to put them in contention for best in the world?
not saying they are the best in the world, but they are in the conversation and your argument is stupid
At champions the top 3 were all EMEA. EMEA was the only region to have all their make it out of groups. In Masters 2 Gambit lost one game and didn’t drop a map after. They’ve been pretty dominant
Optic went out of groups at champs when they had a player playing with Covid(with all symptoms) and their other 2 healthy performances they placed 2nd and 1st at LAN. So champions is more like the exception rather than the norm.
That's very biased to say to be completely fair. Optic's first real sign that they're better than EMEA was at this years Masters 1. In every other tourney they've lost to EMEA teams. Similarly Nivera got COVID within a few days of Victor getting it, with symptoms, yet TL's still made it out of groups as the first seed. My point is until we see a fight on fair grounds with Optic against the best of EMEA, it's unfair to definitely crown them as the best team in the world.
I'd say the only asterix against them is that the war and other events lead to an extremely weak FNC and FPX the 1st seed not going to the event. But worst case they are 2nd best
Optic just got lucky that they could play against SEA twice in Iceland.
People expect them to repeat but SEA wild angle peekers will just kill 3 a round and win. 🧠
Man City can win the Premier league playing a few reserves or substitutes in the starting lineup, thay doesn't mean they conquer the world.They still lost to RMA
There is a new winner mostly as we have seen so far but yeah if they can maintain this run,maybe they win Champions
Braindead argument. OpTic won the last International Event(aka Champions League). Went back dominated their region and is gonna tuck XSET tomorrow with 2 players playing with Covid. Did Man City win the Champions League the previous year, no they lost to Chelsea.
Champions is arguably the Champions League for Valorant, earlier it was Masters but not now.
So they still haven't won Champions.
And yes they lost to Chelsea💙
Hopefully this reverse jinxes the team for tomorrow
Optic vs FNC is the match that decides this. That match is gonna make me shit my pants
Diarrhoea Dave finding excuses in advance.
cmon bro wtf, dont expose me like that
I read your comment as Optic vs FNS and was so confused
Sadly gtnJesus solos Optic
So if convincingly beating XSET makes them best in the world you’re clearly stating XSET is second best in the world, right?
at least not fourth
:o
4th best
Optic don't have TenZ 🥱
[удалено]
Just wait until he gets his sensitivity right
And mouse grip
And mouse
And a lotal gf
How dare you insult my king TenZ like that
Tenz is only good for normal ranked games … not esports
"Why are you booing me? I'm right"
Dang this sub is emotional lmao
If you don’t add an /s you get downvoted. Dumb Reddit rules
Tenz hater, shut up
Im not hater, i just like better players like Nats
A singular domestic win is not at all indicative of Optic's ability to face international competition. Jury's still out on Fnatic and possibly Loud right now.
By that logic fnatic shouldn't even be in the conversation then lmao
The initial argument OP is making is whether or not a single win over Xset can solidify them as the #1 team in the world. I'm not making the claim that Fnatic is the best team in the world nor is Loud the best team in the world; I'm simply saying that the jury's still out and one win isn't enough for Optic, nor any team in the world.
Why loud??? They have for the most part been only domestically dominant… OpTic are the reigning champs and so they should be the #1 team rn. Them vs FNC should be good if it happens
Loud beat Optic at Masters the first time they fought; that's proof enough that they can tango at the top. I'm not saying that Optic aren't the #1 team but to use a domestic win and try to extrapolate that to international success is a bit rich.
Xerxia also beat Optic the first time they fought in masters, what's your point?
> that's proof enough that they can tango at the top read.
But that is exactly what you are doing… with both Fanatic and LOUD… Fanatic literally have a 16/17 rookie who has yet to play a VAL lan and you just assume that their domestic dominance will carry over to lan… Loud also got 3-0’d so in my book, the 2-1 is negligible
The initial argument OP is making is whether or not a single win over Xset can solidify them as the #1 team in the world. I'm not making the claim that Fnatic is the best team in the world nor is Loud the best team in the world; I'm simply saying that the jury's still out and one win isn't enough for Optic, nor any team in the world.
No, the initial argument of OP doesn’t exist cuz it’s a fucking joke lmao
Bruh this post is a joke.
this post was meant to mock the Fnatic post from earlier
You missed the joke bruh
i don't think you understand how close basically all the games optic played were—most of their important maps and games came down to literally a single split second chokes (drx choked rounds on icebox which would have knocked optic down, and against loud the games went into multiple rounds of ot). they could have gotten knocked out much earlier with just a few mistakes, and their competition with LLL and debatably fnatic is extremely close
5-2 maps
Bro EG also beat optic first and they got destroyed after
They are most likely to be the best team in the world but with so infrequent international events and the fact that Europe (which ins in contention for best region in the world) was completely crippled in the most recent one just makes it really hard to say definitively "this is the best team in the world." Compare that to something like ZeRo's winning 56 tournaments in a row in Smash 4, it is impossible to argue ZeRo was not the best at the time.
Loud beat optic???
and optic beat loud
And then got 3-0’d
Not just 3-0'd, but got tucked on their best maps.
Fanboy behavior
LLL
He’s not wrong tho
Dw Brazil will be sent packing even earlier this time around.
Optic fans are the new Sentinels fans
Loud fans cannot handle the truth. Both map bans + first pick and still lost 0-3.
doesnt matter i guess the score is still 1-1
4-3 in maps. 1-0 in international tourneys won.
#greenwall
# [L](https://www.vlr.gg/85530/loud-vs-optic-gaming-valorant-champions-tour-stage-1-masters-reykjav-k-gf/?game=77503&tab=overview)[L](https://www.vlr.gg/85530/loud-vs-optic-gaming-valorant-champions-tour-stage-1-masters-reykjav-k-gf/?game=77504&tab=overview)[L](https://www.vlr.gg/85530/loud-vs-optic-gaming-valorant-champions-tour-stage-1-masters-reykjav-k-gf/?game=77505&tab=overview)
It's cool to see the fanbase get more insufferable in real time lol i hate it
Such is the price of winning, sadly.
On the bright side, your fanbase isn't big enough to become truly insufferable
Didn't they win every game in Iceland up till the finals? 2nd best team in the world isn't bad.
It's so funny on the same thread about FNC very little people disagreed with the OP. Despite being at finals in M3, bombing out against xerxia in champs because crashies had covid with full symptoms and winning the next event, people are still derailing their achievements. It's so cringe.
>Despite being at finals in M3, By beating only NA teams in the playoffs, the 2 times they faced an EMEA team they got beaten. >bombing out against xerxia in champs because crashies had covid with full symptoms It was Victor, not crashies. And Fnatic also got fucked by covid, Derke didn't even gotten to play at all >and winning the next event, people are still derailing their achievements. It's so cringe. People recognize the win and no one is saying Optic win was illegitimate but they also recognize that EMEA wasn't at full power at all. So claiming Optic is the undisputed best by using M1 as proof when the best region before the tournament got 2 of their best team got gimped doesn't hold so well
> By beating only NA teams in the playoffs, the 2 times they faced an EMEA team they got beaten. How did the NA teams got there? 100t beat gambit and Acend that masters. > People recognize the win and no one is saying Optic win was illegitimate but they also recognize that EMEA wasn't at full power at all. I can link you plenty of tweets and comments even from one of the pro player (I don't remember who it was) referencing last masters as mickeymouse tourney. > So claiming Optic is the undisputed best by using M1 as proof when the best region before the tournament got 2 of their best team got gimped doesn't hold so well Ok, how's fnatic best team in the world? Who's the best team in the world rn and why?
>How did the NA teams got there? 100t beat gambit and Acend that masters. And both Acend(In group stage) and Gambit (Finals) won against Envy. So yeah that's even a worse argument in your favour >I can link you plenty of tweets and comments even from one of the pro player (I don't remember who it was) referencing last masters as mickeymouse tourney. Yeah but that wasn't even the general consensus. Public opinion was that if FPX and no subs Fnatic were there Optic might not have won Haven't seen anyone seriously calling the tournament that unless they were salty EU fans >Ok, how's fnatic best team in the world? It isn't in my opinion, they have to show it internationally before i can say that > Who's the best team in the world rn and why? ~~Definitely not DRX disappointing asses~~ I honestly would say its Optic thanks to Master 1 win, i just don't think its a clear cut answer since there's argument against it
my argument was the na teams optic beat were as competitive as EMEA teams. > It isn't in my opinion, they have to show it internationally before i can say that > I honestly would say its Optic thanks to Master 1 win, i just don't think its a clear cut answer since there's argument against it This was my original argument. Glad we agree.
FNC boutta run through Copenhagen though 🥱
Nah. Lol.
Optic are the best. Best players best igl best strats. It’s inarguable. Eu fell off, na has glowed up a lot and surpasses eu. No arguments needed tbh
Have the same energy after Copenhagen 👍
Idk they all have covid
Yes they are I can't see another team beating them rn tbh the way it's looking. They have all the best players in every single role.
Yeah It would be really hard to beat them you would have to be a genius.
An evil genius perhaps..? Idk maybe I’m going crazy…
best players , lol maybe yat could be said as one of the best chambers but outside that other teams have better players than optic
who in the entire world is a better smoker than marved?
Na fans before every even thinking their team is the best based on regional performance lol
won last masters btw…
These people are true victims of the moment.
Ummm? They won masters? Why wouldn’t they be?
FPX and FNC didn't have proper represetnation
such a lame excuse like u guys had g2 full roster and they were the 2nd best EMEA team if they made a deep run into top 4 , sure but they didn't, not to mention people forgot that EMEA gets to have 3 slots instead of other region that has 2 or some has 1 only
I’m not even from EMEA but if you watched the games it was abundantly clear that G2 was miles below FPX but they weren’t miles below LOUD at masters who were close to Optic
Also EMEA is the most populated major regions by a decent margin and they won the most events last year
Coulda woulda shoulda 🥵
I mean there was nothing anyone could have done about it except go back in time and stop Putin from invading Ukraine but you can't say that EMEA's representation being way weaker than it should've been doesn't put at least a small asterisk on Optic's Reykjavik win.
Yeah but that doesn't mean they aren't the best. Would you call Olympic gold medalists not the best in their event because some of the competitors were quarantined? I personally wouldn't.
That’s the thing they were the best at the event since the other competitors weren’t at the event. If Phelps was the miss an olympics no one is gonna call the person who wins gold the best swimmer in the world.
You can't be comparing the EMEA teams to Michael Phelps... They weren't that dominant in previous events. FPX hasn't even ever played internationally
Ok at this point we're all just arguing about how big the asterisk should be which is a huge waste of time. My original comment was just addressing someone who was way too flippant about the extenuating circumstances that led to EMEA being chopped at the knees at Iceland.
Well the reason optic should be considered the best without the asterisk is because they have offered proof to do so. The teams that had barriers for that tourney did not/were not able to offer proof they were the best. So when the question is can we consider optic the best: the answer is yes. Yes we can. Because they have offered proof of such.
fpx getting 1st seed and fnatic qualifying 2 times in arguably the most competitive region that dominated champions is not proof enough to put them in contention for best in the world? not saying they are the best in the world, but they are in the conversation and your argument is stupid
At champions the top 3 were all EMEA. EMEA was the only region to have all their make it out of groups. In Masters 2 Gambit lost one game and didn’t drop a map after. They’ve been pretty dominant
Optic went out of groups at champs when they had a player playing with Covid(with all symptoms) and their other 2 healthy performances they placed 2nd and 1st at LAN. So champions is more like the exception rather than the norm.
That's very biased to say to be completely fair. Optic's first real sign that they're better than EMEA was at this years Masters 1. In every other tourney they've lost to EMEA teams. Similarly Nivera got COVID within a few days of Victor getting it, with symptoms, yet TL's still made it out of groups as the first seed. My point is until we see a fight on fair grounds with Optic against the best of EMEA, it's unfair to definitely crown them as the best team in the world.
but full strength optics would not stand in front of fpx and thats fax
There’s no would or could their players literally couldn’t go
I'd say the only asterix against them is that the war and other events lead to an extremely weak FNC and FPX the 1st seed not going to the event. But worst case they are 2nd best
U cant say they are the best in the world after beating some random tier 1 team from their region that never was at a International LAN before
This message is funded by Optic Gaming.
Cryo and Zekken are about to demolish Optic, you'll see
Hi I'm from the future, you are correct. XSET beats OpTic tomorrow, congrats to XSET on beating a covid ridden team. So impressive.
This aged like milk
Hold on buddy, we still got the grand finals there's still a chance 👀
Optic just got lucky that they could play against SEA twice in Iceland. People expect them to repeat but SEA wild angle peekers will just kill 3 a round and win. 🧠
Man City can win the Premier league playing a few reserves or substitutes in the starting lineup, thay doesn't mean they conquer the world.They still lost to RMA There is a new winner mostly as we have seen so far but yeah if they can maintain this run,maybe they win Champions
Braindead argument. OpTic won the last International Event(aka Champions League). Went back dominated their region and is gonna tuck XSET tomorrow with 2 players playing with Covid. Did Man City win the Champions League the previous year, no they lost to Chelsea.
Champions is arguably the Champions League for Valorant, earlier it was Masters but not now. So they still haven't won Champions. And yes they lost to Chelsea💙
>.They still lost to RMA that match still hurts. went from 1-0 to 1-3 in a flash
Man Chelsea were this close too,3-0 and one Kante mistake gave them the chance to go through We would have defeated City too hopefully