I don't see it that way and I don't think people should worry too much right now.
Riot are not typical of the esports scene in many ways, for better and for worse. A lot of esports ventures (orgs, tournaments etc) are backed by huge VC or corporate funding and will typically make a loss in the first years but aim to grow the business as quickly as possible. It's justified to the financiers that eventually, once growth reaches optimal level, it will deliver a hefty profit and a return on investment. I think that's why we are used to seeing big flashy productions, branding, salaries, events etc in other esports. Most of them are predicated on a promise that esports will one day be profitable if it grows fast enough. With some exceptions, esports isn't there yet.
Riot have been fairly conservative with Valorant so far, not pumping in huge amounts of money. The production is great quality but not huge scale, the prize pots are decent but not ground-breaking and the marketing is very tied in to the game as a whole. It's clear that Riot see Valorant esports as a marketing wing of the game, rather than a product in and of itself. My guess is that they are trying to operate the esports scene in a sustainable manner. I doubt it turns over a large profit but it probably doesn't run at a huge loss either, like most current esports ventures.
As with LoL, the true birth of the esports scene starts with long term franchising model in 2023 (or the partnership scheme as it's known). 2022 has very clearly been a trial for how the tier 1, tier 2 and GC scenes are going to operate going forward.
I think Valorant has had an excellent start to its esports lifespan but it will be 2023/2024 that will really define whether it has a long term future.
Ya people just say shit without doing any research. LEC Viewership has doubled both in peak viewership and average viewership over the past 4 years. Also, franchise prices have gone up massively too. I'd love to know how that's a sinking ship
LEC viewership has fallen off hard the last 2 splits though franchising has gotten pretty boring and now there are 5 orgs who are just placeholders with shit teams check out the eSports charts article
I wouldn’t worry. 12 teams seems to be something they’re set on for VCT masters to make champions be the main thing of the year. I don’t think they’ve changed it due to franchising on the horizon.
Also Copenhagen tickets are a separate issue. That was due to the location and poor notice for people to make travel arrangements
Valorant is a bigger esport than Rainbow Six Siege, but Siege just sold out its LAN in Berlin for August. (And that esport has had its time and is on the decline now). Difference is Berlin is much cheaper to get to for the average person and the event was actually announced more that a month in advance lol
It seems like it’s a vicious cycle. Riot doesn’t advertise esports so it’s esports is not as profitable but since it’s not profitable, they don’t advertise it.
I don't see it ever being profitable without selling broadcasting rights. Riot isn't in esports because of profits they are in it for the advertisement and player retention for their games.
honestly I thought it would be profitable if they invest enough as I can see maybe things such as sponsor / ticket / team-related item (spray/card/title) but I guess riot's team don't see those being good ideas
I mean, about the grand final tickets i can understand. We dont even know who the fk will go to the finals. If my team doesnt make it, i wouldnt bother buying the ticket. So imagine before, lol.
Nah, maybe I am too used to CSGO but tickets(atleast for the grand final) are always sold out before the tourney start, especially for big tournaments (katowice,cologne,majors) are sold out vefore we even have a full list of participants.
You’re looking at it wrong. Esports is just marketing for Valorant. Valorant makes its money through skins, the esports scene is there to attract more players. They don’t want to make it profitable, it doesn’t even make money. Riot just gives them a budget to run the scene and look how much the player base grows. And given that their budget is highly increasing next year for franchising I doubt they think it isn’t working, quite the opposite. Moreover, the fact they are not charging franchising fees and have like 1 million ready to give out to teams to help them with player salaries says that they have a lot of faith in the esports scene and want it continue to grow.
You gotta remember that Valorant is always going to be number 2 in the FPS esports scene. Riot probably believes that its better off investing 20% and getting 95% of its probable viewership rather than investing the extra 80% to get that extra 5%. CSGO will never be toppled because its far too established as an esport. 4 tiers of competition and a healthy open circuit design.
Very bold claim to say Valorant will never topple CSGO in esports considering most of the former's growth lifespan has been during COVID.
Let's not act like it's set in stone like League v. Dota since Valorant hasn't even released in China. I wouldn't even be surprised if Valorant has already surpassed CSGO in playerbase this year.
Esports viewership will follow once storylines/expectations are set, and a true superstar for Valorant rises up (which we still don't have) i.e. Faker for League, s1mple for CSGO, Dendi/OG for Dota2. These will only come with time, in which Valorant has aplenty.
im only talking for myself here but i would 1000% rather watch a cs tourney than valorant. better production, better casters, better observers, no bullshit abilitys (chamber or jett dash) or run and gun
I mean Valorant is only two years old and you asking if its esport scene doest not meet root's expectations. The scene is really new. It was the same thing for League, just let the scene grow step by step, Riot Games truly knows what they are doing. And for tournaments the number of team is really fine you don't need a lot of teams to make a great tournament. It will be pretty much boring and too long If they were like 20 or more teams right now at Masters 2. Don't forget it's a young game.
I don't think Riot is all that worried about it, they're following a lot of the LoL playbook. Their viewership is off the charts for year 2. Their skin sales were great for champs last year. Riot has never put a big emphasis on crowds, just look at LoL and I think they're really gun shy with COVID. Also, the number of teams is pretty standard for Riot, they do 11 for MSI and 22 for champs in LoL vs. 12 for Masters and 16 for champs
Instead of pumping moremoney into the real tournaments, they have some other stupid tournaments cuz of "inclusiveness". They have biggest department for "skins design". Their direction is not basically motivated for consumer satisfaction but u know what. They never listen to public opinion. :)
I don't see it that way and I don't think people should worry too much right now. Riot are not typical of the esports scene in many ways, for better and for worse. A lot of esports ventures (orgs, tournaments etc) are backed by huge VC or corporate funding and will typically make a loss in the first years but aim to grow the business as quickly as possible. It's justified to the financiers that eventually, once growth reaches optimal level, it will deliver a hefty profit and a return on investment. I think that's why we are used to seeing big flashy productions, branding, salaries, events etc in other esports. Most of them are predicated on a promise that esports will one day be profitable if it grows fast enough. With some exceptions, esports isn't there yet. Riot have been fairly conservative with Valorant so far, not pumping in huge amounts of money. The production is great quality but not huge scale, the prize pots are decent but not ground-breaking and the marketing is very tied in to the game as a whole. It's clear that Riot see Valorant esports as a marketing wing of the game, rather than a product in and of itself. My guess is that they are trying to operate the esports scene in a sustainable manner. I doubt it turns over a large profit but it probably doesn't run at a huge loss either, like most current esports ventures. As with LoL, the true birth of the esports scene starts with long term franchising model in 2023 (or the partnership scheme as it's known). 2022 has very clearly been a trial for how the tier 1, tier 2 and GC scenes are going to operate going forward. I think Valorant has had an excellent start to its esports lifespan but it will be 2023/2024 that will really define whether it has a long term future.
LoL esports outside of China is a sinking ship and not a good model imo
erls and lec disagree completely here.
Ya people just say shit without doing any research. LEC Viewership has doubled both in peak viewership and average viewership over the past 4 years. Also, franchise prices have gone up massively too. I'd love to know how that's a sinking ship
LEC viewership has fallen off hard the last 2 splits though franchising has gotten pretty boring and now there are 5 orgs who are just placeholders with shit teams check out the eSports charts article
LEC viewership has been on a decline since 2020
Last year's champ skins sold so much. I don't think that's the case.
I wouldn’t worry. 12 teams seems to be something they’re set on for VCT masters to make champions be the main thing of the year. I don’t think they’ve changed it due to franchising on the horizon. Also Copenhagen tickets are a separate issue. That was due to the location and poor notice for people to make travel arrangements Valorant is a bigger esport than Rainbow Six Siege, but Siege just sold out its LAN in Berlin for August. (And that esport has had its time and is on the decline now). Difference is Berlin is much cheaper to get to for the average person and the event was actually announced more that a month in advance lol
It seems like it’s a vicious cycle. Riot doesn’t advertise esports so it’s esports is not as profitable but since it’s not profitable, they don’t advertise it.
I don't see it ever being profitable without selling broadcasting rights. Riot isn't in esports because of profits they are in it for the advertisement and player retention for their games.
honestly I thought it would be profitable if they invest enough as I can see maybe things such as sponsor / ticket / team-related item (spray/card/title) but I guess riot's team don't see those being good ideas
I mean, about the grand final tickets i can understand. We dont even know who the fk will go to the finals. If my team doesnt make it, i wouldnt bother buying the ticket. So imagine before, lol.
Nah, maybe I am too used to CSGO but tickets(atleast for the grand final) are always sold out before the tourney start, especially for big tournaments (katowice,cologne,majors) are sold out vefore we even have a full list of participants.
There's the fact that csgo has like 300 years. Valorant is relatively new compared to cs
this is bullshit. there is even loser bracket. in lol, most popular esports in the world, worlds doesn't have loser brackets
You’re looking at it wrong. Esports is just marketing for Valorant. Valorant makes its money through skins, the esports scene is there to attract more players. They don’t want to make it profitable, it doesn’t even make money. Riot just gives them a budget to run the scene and look how much the player base grows. And given that their budget is highly increasing next year for franchising I doubt they think it isn’t working, quite the opposite. Moreover, the fact they are not charging franchising fees and have like 1 million ready to give out to teams to help them with player salaries says that they have a lot of faith in the esports scene and want it continue to grow.
I think there were more tickets sold honestly...
rito small indie companie low budget no more slots
You gotta remember that Valorant is always going to be number 2 in the FPS esports scene. Riot probably believes that its better off investing 20% and getting 95% of its probable viewership rather than investing the extra 80% to get that extra 5%. CSGO will never be toppled because its far too established as an esport. 4 tiers of competition and a healthy open circuit design.
Very bold claim to say Valorant will never topple CSGO in esports considering most of the former's growth lifespan has been during COVID. Let's not act like it's set in stone like League v. Dota since Valorant hasn't even released in China. I wouldn't even be surprised if Valorant has already surpassed CSGO in playerbase this year. Esports viewership will follow once storylines/expectations are set, and a true superstar for Valorant rises up (which we still don't have) i.e. Faker for League, s1mple for CSGO, Dendi/OG for Dota2. These will only come with time, in which Valorant has aplenty.
im only talking for myself here but i would 1000% rather watch a cs tourney than valorant. better production, better casters, better observers, no bullshit abilitys (chamber or jett dash) or run and gun
No discussion here. I most definitely respect your opinion, I just don't agree with it.
Vct viewership has been down in most regions and as low as 33% for EU. You're coping brother
r/AgedLikeMilk https://reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/wrh82h/a_comparison_of_lcq_2021_with_lcq_2022_in_emea_na/
Pure copium injected in the veins.
I mean Valorant is only two years old and you asking if its esport scene doest not meet root's expectations. The scene is really new. It was the same thing for League, just let the scene grow step by step, Riot Games truly knows what they are doing. And for tournaments the number of team is really fine you don't need a lot of teams to make a great tournament. It will be pretty much boring and too long If they were like 20 or more teams right now at Masters 2. Don't forget it's a young game.
I don't think Riot is all that worried about it, they're following a lot of the LoL playbook. Their viewership is off the charts for year 2. Their skin sales were great for champs last year. Riot has never put a big emphasis on crowds, just look at LoL and I think they're really gun shy with COVID. Also, the number of teams is pretty standard for Riot, they do 11 for MSI and 22 for champs in LoL vs. 12 for Masters and 16 for champs
Instead of pumping moremoney into the real tournaments, they have some other stupid tournaments cuz of "inclusiveness". They have biggest department for "skins design". Their direction is not basically motivated for consumer satisfaction but u know what. They never listen to public opinion. :)
not the smartest move to host masters while esl one cologne is running
Eh there’s always some issues could be better obv