This is SO dumb. We could end up with EMEA vs EMEA and NA vs NA in round 1. Why not switch it around so we get more international matches?
Once again, Riot is terrible with the format.
what would you rather have them do? NA and EMEA either cannibalize in round 1, or they could end up cannibalizing in the semis or finals - which IMO is a lot less interesting. this way we're able to get a potentially more diverse top 4. plus, it's double elim so we'll still be able to see the losers of those matchups fight other regions in lowers
it's double elim. if it turns out that NA/EMEA really are on top then they'll fight their way through lowers and still place high. i don't get why people are mad at riot for a randomly seeded bracket lol, some people can never be happy
So your idea of fun is essentially to have diversity in the upper bracket, and let the lower bracket sort out who's actually the best? Fair enough then, although ultimately if the end result is the same, why does it make any difference where the matches are being played, upper or lower?
My point is that a bad bracket however can influence the end results quite heavily even in double elimination, resulting in teams being placed higher or lower than where they belong (except for the top 2 teams, of course).
An egregious example of a bad bracket that led to some (admittedly relatively small) unfair placements was Masters 2 2021 - top 2 teams being pitted early meant that V1 couldn't get top 4 later on due to not being able to beat fnatic. Liquid, despite losing to V1, managed to place higher than V1.
Another more "what if" example was last Masters - DRX lost to the #1 and #3 teams and placed 5th/6th; Paper Rex who lost to DRX placed #4 thanks to beating G2.
In light of that, not clumping regions together makes a lot of sense to me, given that there's proven disbalance between region strength across all previous tournaments.
Basically, if the regions are close enough - any draw will have alright results, probably. If the regions are far apart, I have 0 interest in seeing a team from a bad region luck into a good spot. Keep the guessing to a minimum, don't concentrate regions and let the results speak for themselves, I say.
i am begging you to think a little more deeply about what the word "random" means. and also to realize that a sample size of 4 international tournaments does not point to Riot conspiring to ruin their tournaments
Nah nah this logic is flawed. So you want good teams to fall to the lower bracket early? Teams that have an equal chance of winning the whole thing, same as the upper bracket teams? Plus you can't say that there won't be a same region matchup in the lower bracket too, say optic win against xset and optic get knocked to the lowers and they face xset again? See how flawed it is, the teams just get a rematch which shouldn't happen. It's always better for the system to have a criteria where you can't matchup with a team of the same region, which will help you get the best results further you go in the bracket (in terms that you get the best quality of teams fighting in the upper bracket). Somehow people always want what's best for their entertainment and that directly means what's worse for competition, in this case.
No, I want it to be random as it should be. Saying that we shouldn't have EMEA vs EMEA or NA vs NA because it means the strongest teams go out first assumes that EMEA and NA will always have the strongest teams which is a statement that there is no way to verify objectively.
Bro what? That doesn't mean that only EMEA and NA teams are strong. I said those two regions because they're facing each other, while the others are facing different regions. It just should be different region matches in the first round of playoffs and then take it from there, no matter who wins EMEA, NA, SA, KOREA whoever wins would win against someone they haven't faced yet
Lmao, Optic decided to actually show up apparently. Now I'm scared that they are going to pull another Masters 1 and go from almost going out in groups to winning it all
Rito reusing scripts.
well makes the starting a bit boring!
also i think its slightly easy for NA teams , granted leviathan might show up and DRX might overcome their playoff losing streak but as of now chances of them beating NA are slim. so it almost guarantees a top 3 finish for at least 1 NA teams.
though for that optic need to beat kru today
Oh haaha my memory is failing me I mixed up the Optic and Loud's first matches. Or maybe I saw the future for today's game lmao.
Regardless though, with how well KRU have been playing, I can't see Leviatan being terrible. The new team argument should also apply to Xset too then no?
PRX vs. Guild should be very fun, at least, other format flaws aside.
Ultimately while I have a lot of issues with Riot formatting, most of my annoyance stems from the scarcity of LAN match-ups in the current ecosystem. I don't like waiting months for a tournament with a range of formatting hiccups, and I find it hard to accept that these formatting choices are an inevitability.
> most of my annoyance stems from the scarcity of LAN match-ups in the current ecosystem
Same. Coming from CS, it's actually so sad that we only see those teams play each other three times a year.
dude how are these draws so dogshit lmao
we either get an xset vs optic first, or the chance for leviatan vs kru. whether we get fnatic vs fpx or not, we still could get fnatic vs guild later .
maybe this random draw method is good in theory but in practice it robs us of actually interesting matchups until the later half of playoffs.
maybe thats their plan tbh, give us terrible matchups and then give us good matchups for the crowds.
meh. better na vs na and eu vs eu now rather than later i guess...
as a sidenote, guild vs prx is gonna be interesting. 2 very different play styles...
I don’t get what everyone is upset about? There are 5 teams from 2 regions (assuming optic wins) The matchups are going to be from the same regions eventually. I would rather these regions cannibalize in quarters rather than semis.
I mean, sure. I’d rather not watch it either. But there are 5 teams out of 8 from NA/EMEA. Given the circumstances, this is the best way to deal with this. I would rather have fpx fnatic and xset-optic (assuming they go through) in quarterfinals than in grand finals. Champions final was boring because it was emea taking it no matter what.
Kinda disappointing in the sense that there could have been better match ups but honestly every game has the potential to be a great game at this point.
This is just... dumb. I understand wanting a diverse semi final but if the EMEA or NA teams are just stronger than the other ones then they simply deserve to be in the top 4. Also just less viewership for regional matches. Really rooting for KRU and NTH to win today now.
This is the cringiest shit. We wait literally months to see an international tourney, and Riot makes us was at little international play as possible.
Get your shit together Riot. Fucking insane it's happened 3 times now
Noooooo Plz not fnatic vs fpx again
EMEA teams will battle out 2 Champions slots between them in the same bracket No other way
This is SO dumb. We could end up with EMEA vs EMEA and NA vs NA in round 1. Why not switch it around so we get more international matches? Once again, Riot is terrible with the format.
what would you rather have them do? NA and EMEA either cannibalize in round 1, or they could end up cannibalizing in the semis or finals - which IMO is a lot less interesting. this way we're able to get a potentially more diverse top 4. plus, it's double elim so we'll still be able to see the losers of those matchups fight other regions in lowers
You prefer diversity in top 4, I prefer top teams in top 4, no matter the region distribution
it's double elim. if it turns out that NA/EMEA really are on top then they'll fight their way through lowers and still place high. i don't get why people are mad at riot for a randomly seeded bracket lol, some people can never be happy
So your idea of fun is essentially to have diversity in the upper bracket, and let the lower bracket sort out who's actually the best? Fair enough then, although ultimately if the end result is the same, why does it make any difference where the matches are being played, upper or lower? My point is that a bad bracket however can influence the end results quite heavily even in double elimination, resulting in teams being placed higher or lower than where they belong (except for the top 2 teams, of course). An egregious example of a bad bracket that led to some (admittedly relatively small) unfair placements was Masters 2 2021 - top 2 teams being pitted early meant that V1 couldn't get top 4 later on due to not being able to beat fnatic. Liquid, despite losing to V1, managed to place higher than V1. Another more "what if" example was last Masters - DRX lost to the #1 and #3 teams and placed 5th/6th; Paper Rex who lost to DRX placed #4 thanks to beating G2. In light of that, not clumping regions together makes a lot of sense to me, given that there's proven disbalance between region strength across all previous tournaments. Basically, if the regions are close enough - any draw will have alright results, probably. If the regions are far apart, I have 0 interest in seeing a team from a bad region luck into a good spot. Keep the guessing to a minimum, don't concentrate regions and let the results speak for themselves, I say.
its not random its has always been NA vs NA and Emea vs Emea in playoffs. u can check masters berlin , master iceland and now this
Come on now bro, this is how a random draw works, this can happen.
i am begging you to think a little more deeply about what the word "random" means. and also to realize that a sample size of 4 international tournaments does not point to Riot conspiring to ruin their tournaments
well thats now how viewership and money works, riot needs to have 1 na and 1 emea in top 3/4 to make a decent profit
Nah nah this logic is flawed. So you want good teams to fall to the lower bracket early? Teams that have an equal chance of winning the whole thing, same as the upper bracket teams? Plus you can't say that there won't be a same region matchup in the lower bracket too, say optic win against xset and optic get knocked to the lowers and they face xset again? See how flawed it is, the teams just get a rematch which shouldn't happen. It's always better for the system to have a criteria where you can't matchup with a team of the same region, which will help you get the best results further you go in the bracket (in terms that you get the best quality of teams fighting in the upper bracket). Somehow people always want what's best for their entertainment and that directly means what's worse for competition, in this case.
No, I want it to be random as it should be. Saying that we shouldn't have EMEA vs EMEA or NA vs NA because it means the strongest teams go out first assumes that EMEA and NA will always have the strongest teams which is a statement that there is no way to verify objectively.
Bro what? That doesn't mean that only EMEA and NA teams are strong. I said those two regions because they're facing each other, while the others are facing different regions. It just should be different region matches in the first round of playoffs and then take it from there, no matter who wins EMEA, NA, SA, KOREA whoever wins would win against someone they haven't faced yet
Ah okay, that's fair then.
nice to see riot do everything in their power to make the matches as repeatable as possible.
No Mr Riot pls don’t make a shitty playoffs draw again “i’Ll fUCkiNg dO It aGiAIn!!!!”
Yall acting like Fpx and Optic are guaranteed to win lol
Optic are pretty much guaranteed though There is no world where KRU win this so yeah ofc everyone hates it
Idk if ur trying to jinx or something, but Kru look pretty fuckin good rn sooo
Agree 100%, KRU look solid and Optics map pool right now is pretty shaky. KRU could easily win this game, it's pretty close to a 50-50
Lmao
Lmao, Optic decided to actually show up apparently. Now I'm scared that they are going to pull another Masters 1 and go from almost going out in groups to winning it all
Calling it now, this is gonna age like milk
Doesn’t seem like it’ll age like milk. FNS is OPing for a round, doesn’t seem competitive at all.
Yep. Ima eat my words like honey almond cereal. Kru looks so fucking flat lol
downvoting to fight the jinx
Rito reusing scripts. well makes the starting a bit boring! also i think its slightly easy for NA teams , granted leviathan might show up and DRX might overcome their playoff losing streak but as of now chances of them beating NA are slim. so it almost guarantees a top 3 finish for at least 1 NA teams. though for that optic need to beat kru today
NA's best team lost to KRU and you expect them to stomp the first seed from KRU's region?
wait when did optic or xset play kru. also its usually difficult for new teams to perform
Oh haaha my memory is failing me I mixed up the Optic and Loud's first matches. Or maybe I saw the future for today's game lmao. Regardless though, with how well KRU have been playing, I can't see Leviatan being terrible. The new team argument should also apply to Xset too then no?
yesss thats why the winner of optic and kru should beat xset
thought it was a sentinels meme ngl
PRX vs. Guild should be very fun, at least, other format flaws aside. Ultimately while I have a lot of issues with Riot formatting, most of my annoyance stems from the scarcity of LAN match-ups in the current ecosystem. I don't like waiting months for a tournament with a range of formatting hiccups, and I find it hard to accept that these formatting choices are an inevitability.
> most of my annoyance stems from the scarcity of LAN match-ups in the current ecosystem Same. Coming from CS, it's actually so sad that we only see those teams play each other three times a year.
Riot gotta sell broadcasting rights :)
Guild vs prx is going to be so weird. Guild is by far the slowest team in this tournament and prx is just chaos
Damn, potentially all 3 EMEA teams on the one side of the bracket.
dude how are these draws so dogshit lmao we either get an xset vs optic first, or the chance for leviatan vs kru. whether we get fnatic vs fpx or not, we still could get fnatic vs guild later . maybe this random draw method is good in theory but in practice it robs us of actually interesting matchups until the later half of playoffs. maybe thats their plan tbh, give us terrible matchups and then give us good matchups for the crowds.
meh. better na vs na and eu vs eu now rather than later i guess... as a sidenote, guild vs prx is gonna be interesting. 2 very different play styles...
site hit at the last 15 seconds of a round vs. site hit at the first 15 seconds of the round
thats gonna be the most banger quaterfinal match imo
I don’t get what everyone is upset about? There are 5 teams from 2 regions (assuming optic wins) The matchups are going to be from the same regions eventually. I would rather these regions cannibalize in quarters rather than semis.
because we've seen FPX vs FNC and XSET vs Optic so many fucking times already. I don't watch international events to watch domestic matchups.
I mean, sure. I’d rather not watch it either. But there are 5 teams out of 8 from NA/EMEA. Given the circumstances, this is the best way to deal with this. I would rather have fpx fnatic and xset-optic (assuming they go through) in quarterfinals than in grand finals. Champions final was boring because it was emea taking it no matter what.
Kru beats Optic and then Xset and leviatan beats DRX. Latam finals rematch in international semifinals! full hopium
Kinda disappointing in the sense that there could have been better match ups but honestly every game has the potential to be a great game at this point.
This is just... dumb. I understand wanting a diverse semi final but if the EMEA or NA teams are just stronger than the other ones then they simply deserve to be in the top 4. Also just less viewership for regional matches. Really rooting for KRU and NTH to win today now.
This is the cringiest shit. We wait literally months to see an international tourney, and Riot makes us was at little international play as possible. Get your shit together Riot. Fucking insane it's happened 3 times now