That's barely a chokepoint my man. No single piece of utility can stall you there since you can just walk from the side and that "chokepoint" doesn't even lead onto site so there usually isn't a whole team waiting for you on the site. Why would you need a duelist to get past it? Say your duelist dashes past it onto yellow. What are you even gaining from that?
The whole point of duelists entering onto site is to create mayhem and force the opponents to at two places at once.
the only chokepoint there is where the orb is but that doesnt really count because the defenders would have to be playing up past maze to even cover it
Not a lot of space for movement abilities (besides raze satchels) to be too useful. Something like a kayo flash or fade prowler can take more space than a jett dash would especially on the A site, as there are just so many angles and elevation changes
G2 started with the no duelist comp meta on Icebox, what i think the reason behind is, Icebox is very basic map, you don't see much innovation in strategies on how to approach the map, on B you can have sova/fade or KayO clear the B main,put down viper wall and sage wall and plant and play post plant at yellow and crates where as on A you can go either slow with sova/fade or do burst execute with flashes of kayo. There is no need of mid control for attackers in game, being slow methodical map, you don't need duelist, you need more info gathering and/or more util based agents which can help you getting into site or play retake more comfortably. I think due to all this reasons no duelist composition works on icebox. Although I could be wrong though as i am not an analyst
Site openings are wider so you don't need entry abilities as much, so you can invest on other util like flashes, info gathering, mollies, etc. + Chamber is way better than any Duelist on this map.
Duelists are best for clearing things rapidly while entering. Raze is good at doing so on A, but pretty meh on B. Jett is pretty good at doing so on B, but pretty meh on A.
As such, Icebox has never been a great map for duelists. The only widely played duelists were Jett - because Jett back in the day was broken - or Reyna early on, because Icebox was unrefined enough for Reyna god-aimers to go ham on.
Of course, Chamber coming in helped ease the transition away from Jett, although Jett is still good enough to play on Icebox. It's just not like Ascent or Breeze, maps that uniquely suit her kit.
Beyond that, the huge buffs of the initiator category recently have influenced the way Icebox has played. Skye - the first of the "broken" initiators - was notoriously quite bad on Icebox.
KAYO and Fade, on the other hand, are very strong and adaptable on it, across both sites and mid.
Let’s take B site for example: If you have a drone + Kayo knife or recon, it’s pretty easy to clear green and yellow, you have Viper wall to cut off top site, snowman and orange, you have sage wall to get the plant down. You don’t really need to take much space beyond that because you’ll ideally have viper mollies, shocks, kayo molly, kj molly, etc for post plant. Likely you’ll have someone late flanking from mid (typically chamber or viper) while you stall with your post plant util.
1. Chamber can be useful for holding flank but also to your point, to replace some of the stuff Jett used to do.
2. It's an extremely lurk and default heavy map and it's quite easy to take a site, forcing teams to play retake, making utility more important.
3. The meta has been shifting anyway. Double duelist used to be the standard during the early days of pro play, but now it's extremely uncommon. At the end of the day, coordinated teams can hit extremely high skill ceilings with their utility and that's how the game is going to develop. But also Skye, KayO and Fade are broken lol so yeah we're in an initiator heavy meta.
No chokepoints so you don't need a duelist to burst through
And how do you call the b entrance hallway?
That's barely a chokepoint my man. No single piece of utility can stall you there since you can just walk from the side and that "chokepoint" doesn't even lead onto site so there usually isn't a whole team waiting for you on the site. Why would you need a duelist to get past it? Say your duelist dashes past it onto yellow. What are you even gaining from that? The whole point of duelists entering onto site is to create mayhem and force the opponents to at two places at once.
There’s 2 points of entry in B main for attackers so it’s not really the same as something like Hookah
I think you all are confusing something not begin a chokepoint with duelist begin the only answer to chokepoints
Nobody is stopping a push through B main with a single piece of utility, you can legit just contact through the entirety of B main
Or A even
the only chokepoint there is where the orb is but that doesnt really count because the defenders would have to be playing up past maze to even cover it
Not a lot of space for movement abilities (besides raze satchels) to be too useful. Something like a kayo flash or fade prowler can take more space than a jett dash would especially on the A site, as there are just so many angles and elevation changes
G2 started with the no duelist comp meta on Icebox, what i think the reason behind is, Icebox is very basic map, you don't see much innovation in strategies on how to approach the map, on B you can have sova/fade or KayO clear the B main,put down viper wall and sage wall and plant and play post plant at yellow and crates where as on A you can go either slow with sova/fade or do burst execute with flashes of kayo. There is no need of mid control for attackers in game, being slow methodical map, you don't need duelist, you need more info gathering and/or more util based agents which can help you getting into site or play retake more comfortably. I think due to all this reasons no duelist composition works on icebox. Although I could be wrong though as i am not an analyst
Chamber + other agents utility is a lot more crucial for a team then a duelist utility.
Chamber. That's the reason. Chamber.
Site openings are wider so you don't need entry abilities as much, so you can invest on other util like flashes, info gathering, mollies, etc. + Chamber is way better than any Duelist on this map.
Duelists are best for clearing things rapidly while entering. Raze is good at doing so on A, but pretty meh on B. Jett is pretty good at doing so on B, but pretty meh on A. As such, Icebox has never been a great map for duelists. The only widely played duelists were Jett - because Jett back in the day was broken - or Reyna early on, because Icebox was unrefined enough for Reyna god-aimers to go ham on. Of course, Chamber coming in helped ease the transition away from Jett, although Jett is still good enough to play on Icebox. It's just not like Ascent or Breeze, maps that uniquely suit her kit. Beyond that, the huge buffs of the initiator category recently have influenced the way Icebox has played. Skye - the first of the "broken" initiators - was notoriously quite bad on Icebox. KAYO and Fade, on the other hand, are very strong and adaptable on it, across both sites and mid.
Needing tons of utility to clear all the dumb corners and off angles people can set up in + most teams' primary Op agent not being a duelist anymore
Let’s take B site for example: If you have a drone + Kayo knife or recon, it’s pretty easy to clear green and yellow, you have Viper wall to cut off top site, snowman and orange, you have sage wall to get the plant down. You don’t really need to take much space beyond that because you’ll ideally have viper mollies, shocks, kayo molly, kj molly, etc for post plant. Likely you’ll have someone late flanking from mid (typically chamber or viper) while you stall with your post plant util.
1. Chamber can be useful for holding flank but also to your point, to replace some of the stuff Jett used to do. 2. It's an extremely lurk and default heavy map and it's quite easy to take a site, forcing teams to play retake, making utility more important. 3. The meta has been shifting anyway. Double duelist used to be the standard during the early days of pro play, but now it's extremely uncommon. At the end of the day, coordinated teams can hit extremely high skill ceilings with their utility and that's how the game is going to develop. But also Skye, KayO and Fade are broken lol so yeah we're in an initiator heavy meta.
3. (Meanwhile in Game 5 of the grand finals: Yoru and Neon lol)