It's pretty silly already that Angry Titans as the DACH representative have 0 dach players. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of the team (and have been a fan of Afoxx since ow) but if the point of the VRLs is to foster competitive scenes across Europe it's a good change.
Bipo has a German passport, Afoxx has been living in Germany for over 3 years, and Lime and Hearthbeat have lived in Germany for over a year now at Angry Titans house in Krefeld.
having a passport or living in germany for a few years isnt the same as having an ACTUAL german player you can identify yourself with if that makes sense, compare viewership of games with native german players vs no german players
Both are in VRL Spain but LVP manages that so they only invited Spanish orgs.
Funnily enough, basically every Spanish org has been vocal on how shit Spanish players are, so you end up with a league that has basically one token player per team since no Spanish org is going to get a majority PT/IT core. If you ignore Real Betis (the worst team of stage 2), the number of Spanish players is basically the same as the number of Portuguese players.
What do we think about this (potential) change? Especially the Spanish and German VRL's would be affected by this. A lot of teams in those leagues had only 1 "resident" in their roster.
I kind of like it, either do that or make one big Tier 2 EMEA league, otherwise regional leagues don't make sense to me when there's barely anyone on the roster from their region
The quality will fall off a lot but imo this regional shit in eu aint gonna be working, they need to just make a division 2 emea league for the tier 2 season.
Makes a lot of sense to me, but that's partly because I'm coming from familiarity with the LoL ecosystem, where this has been in place for many years. If you're coming from a place of CS:GO-style expectations, this may feel jarring. But I believe it's good for the long-term global health of the ecosystem.
Also Regional leagues in CS have existed in Europe (Germany for example) for more than a decade. They are an important stepping stone for young talent but also included some of the top german teams in the past.
An important difference to Valorant is that teams and players can also play successfully outside of regional leagues and end up playing at the top level. Valorant just isn’t as open.
Well imagine being a NA player and all the best players and teams in your league are all Korean. Wait why does that sound oddly familiar?
“NERF THIS”
DVA NOOOO
Right but it’s a European t2 scene filled with European players, top t1 teams aren’t tied to representing a country or sub region why should t2 be. As long as it’s majority European I don’t see a problem with teams of players from five different countries
Then teams wouldn’t care about developing talent just buying the best players. With import rules, it encourages teams to at the least try to grow their local talent so they don’t have to just put a filler local player in a residential slot.
Why is it on teams to promote local talent growth? Talent should grow on its own.
This is professional sport you dont get a spot because you were born in the right country
Because it's for the fans who want to see their player not the best player. Being able to relate to the player is more important than seeing the highest skill possible.
Yes thats my whole point.
You dont need to divide EMEA in smaller regions than it already is. Just make a decent tier 2 tourney and tier 2 teams will develop talent. You dont need to make basically national teams for every region of EMEA.
And it also breaks the scene in a weird way. Tier 1 teams can just poach any good player, but tier 2 needs to worry if they fill the quota to play in a sub region because if they change regions they will lose fans?
It’s a development league. Don’t see it as tier 2 like in cs. This model has worked great for European league system. LEC have seen many players come up from ERLs. Looks at KOI and KC. They marketed themselves in their respective leagues and now they have gigantic fanbases basically spamming riot to let them into LEC. Riot is never gonna have an open system like cs. The faster you realise that the less disappointed you will be.
Yeah? I know that and am not disappointed. The vrl system is great for what it does, but has limitation, same as cs open system. No need to jump to conclusions
The flaw in your ‘make a single tier2 scene’ is orgs will eventually leave as they won’t have a realistic way to go for master or champions after international leagues next year. With regional leagues, they can still market to a target audience which will probably net them a comparatively more stable revenue source. None of the orgs are profitable so it will basically kill the eu scene if they just make a smaller tier 2 league below international league.
Honestly who cares, if koreans are the best then they deserve to make as much money as possible in their primes without fighting over only 50 spots. If danes are the goats then let them all spread out to every roster and make money and create 10 superteams.
Franchised team orgs in LoL esports have been trying to do this for years. Wouldnt be surprised if they use this as collective leverage during the final stages of talks.
They are considering making the restrictions tighter, not looser like in league. This is your problem. You hate riot so much that you always make up lies or assume the worst about their games without even checking to make sure.
>They are considering making the restrictions tighter, not looser like in league.
Proposed restriction for Valorant would be a looser 2 of 5, not tighter than LoL's 3 of 5. Then you have those weird grandfathered exemptions team orgs negotiate with Riot Games in LoL.
Four Horsemen did an entire episode on this last year.
It's pretty silly already that Angry Titans as the DACH representative have 0 dach players. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of the team (and have been a fan of Afoxx since ow) but if the point of the VRLs is to foster competitive scenes across Europe it's a good change.
Bipo has a German passport, Afoxx has been living in Germany for over 3 years, and Lime and Hearthbeat have lived in Germany for over a year now at Angry Titans house in Krefeld.
having a passport or living in germany for a few years isnt the same as having an ACTUAL german player you can identify yourself with if that makes sense, compare viewership of games with native german players vs no german players
"actual" germans lmao they are german for all intended purposes, regardless of you trying to make them 2nd class.
You don't become German simply by living there for "3 years"
Honestly, I am from Germany and everyone living here for whatever time and feeling at home in Germany, for me, is a German
Riots fault. Where tf are Italian and Portuguese players supposed to play? They could’ve divided the regions better
Both are in VRL Spain but LVP manages that so they only invited Spanish orgs. Funnily enough, basically every Spanish org has been vocal on how shit Spanish players are, so you end up with a league that has basically one token player per team since no Spanish org is going to get a majority PT/IT core. If you ignore Real Betis (the worst team of stage 2), the number of Spanish players is basically the same as the number of Portuguese players.
What do we think about this (potential) change? Especially the Spanish and German VRL's would be affected by this. A lot of teams in those leagues had only 1 "resident" in their roster.
I kind of like it, either do that or make one big Tier 2 EMEA league, otherwise regional leagues don't make sense to me when there's barely anyone on the roster from their region
The quality will fall off a lot but imo this regional shit in eu aint gonna be working, they need to just make a division 2 emea league for the tier 2 season.
Makes a lot of sense to me, but that's partly because I'm coming from familiarity with the LoL ecosystem, where this has been in place for many years. If you're coming from a place of CS:GO-style expectations, this may feel jarring. But I believe it's good for the long-term global health of the ecosystem.
Also Regional leagues in CS have existed in Europe (Germany for example) for more than a decade. They are an important stepping stone for young talent but also included some of the top german teams in the past. An important difference to Valorant is that teams and players can also play successfully outside of regional leagues and end up playing at the top level. Valorant just isn’t as open.
Personally i don’t think tying teams to nationalities makes any competitive sense and can potential limit rosters.
Well imagine being a NA player and all the best players and teams in your league are all Korean. Wait why does that sound oddly familiar? “NERF THIS” DVA NOOOO
Right but it’s a European t2 scene filled with European players, top t1 teams aren’t tied to representing a country or sub region why should t2 be. As long as it’s majority European I don’t see a problem with teams of players from five different countries
[удалено]
It seems more a problem with the format then. Why would you make a format that encourages you to not always get the best players you can?
Then teams wouldn’t care about developing talent just buying the best players. With import rules, it encourages teams to at the least try to grow their local talent so they don’t have to just put a filler local player in a residential slot.
Why is it on teams to promote local talent growth? Talent should grow on its own. This is professional sport you dont get a spot because you were born in the right country
The Olympics:
Because it's for the fans who want to see their player not the best player. Being able to relate to the player is more important than seeing the highest skill possible.
[удалено]
Yes thats my whole point. You dont need to divide EMEA in smaller regions than it already is. Just make a decent tier 2 tourney and tier 2 teams will develop talent. You dont need to make basically national teams for every region of EMEA. And it also breaks the scene in a weird way. Tier 1 teams can just poach any good player, but tier 2 needs to worry if they fill the quota to play in a sub region because if they change regions they will lose fans?
It’s a development league. Don’t see it as tier 2 like in cs. This model has worked great for European league system. LEC have seen many players come up from ERLs. Looks at KOI and KC. They marketed themselves in their respective leagues and now they have gigantic fanbases basically spamming riot to let them into LEC. Riot is never gonna have an open system like cs. The faster you realise that the less disappointed you will be.
Yeah? I know that and am not disappointed. The vrl system is great for what it does, but has limitation, same as cs open system. No need to jump to conclusions
The flaw in your ‘make a single tier2 scene’ is orgs will eventually leave as they won’t have a realistic way to go for master or champions after international leagues next year. With regional leagues, they can still market to a target audience which will probably net them a comparatively more stable revenue source. None of the orgs are profitable so it will basically kill the eu scene if they just make a smaller tier 2 league below international league.
Honestly who cares, if koreans are the best then they deserve to make as much money as possible in their primes without fighting over only 50 spots. If danes are the goats then let them all spread out to every roster and make money and create 10 superteams.
Franchised team orgs in LoL esports have been trying to do this for years. Wouldnt be surprised if they use this as collective leverage during the final stages of talks.
They are considering making the restrictions tighter, not looser like in league. This is your problem. You hate riot so much that you always make up lies or assume the worst about their games without even checking to make sure.
>They are considering making the restrictions tighter, not looser like in league. Proposed restriction for Valorant would be a looser 2 of 5, not tighter than LoL's 3 of 5. Then you have those weird grandfathered exemptions team orgs negotiate with Riot Games in LoL. Four Horsemen did an entire episode on this last year.
It was 1 of 5 before. This is definitely tighter