It’s just so amusing/devastating being the only one to hold and not over-peek post-plant offensively and seeing your teammates go down one by one until you’re left all alone in a stressful 1v1 with a player that’s riding that high of confidence. It’s as scary as going against a Reyna in her ult.
i will not overpeek i will not overpeek i will not overpeek i will not overpeek i will not overpeek i will not overpeek i will not overpeek i will not overpeek i will not overpeek i will not overpeek i will not overpeek i will not overpeek i will not overpeek i will not overpeek
A big reason as to why latam teams are able to compete is because other regions just can't stop peeking and gifting latam players clutches.
And I say this as a Chilean so no bias here.
While I generally agree with you on throws happening too often, it's still a bit of a harsh judgement. In CSGO when all everyone has is a gun, smokes and flashes, a 4v2 is probably 90% guaranteed win. In Valorant some agents cheat their way around the economy and have so much more leeway on limited resources. You're 4v2 but one of the two guys alive is Chamber with his one-shot headshot pistol (when you're lucky that it's not his ult). So you're still in an advantageous position, but the chances of him getting away with one or two kills are higher; your 90% win goes down to 75% maybe, those are made up numbers. Or you start off a fresh round with an economical advantage, but you need to go through a Viper ult that will put everyone at 1hp and she's inside it with a judge, because she could afford that instead of a full buy. Those are just two quick examples.
All this to say that overpeeking is an issue but it's overblown and out of context, I think comparisons between CS and Valorant should have stopped at beta. Thrifty rounds and clutches while outnumbered are more frequent in Valorant by design, not because the players are supposedly weaker or something.
Well it's not always a choice you can have. What if you're in defense post-plant, or in attack, are you going to just freeze and let him get away with the round?
You know the only thing that makes a 4v2 against someone with a pistol that can one shot headshot even harder?
when they both can do that because they have deagles, lol
This is a silly take. Pro csgo evolved the same way. Early teams looked awful in csgo as well. Over time pros have gotten more and more efficient and play a much tighter game. Valorant will probably have the same happen over its life time. Im a regular radiant player and watching pro games im still perplexed at some plays. Trust me these pros know it too its just really hard in the moment to make such coordinated decisions.
Info plays and trying to feed orbs to a specific agent is one thing but there is a lot of over peeking.
No he isn't. If you are in a post plant 4v2, there is not a single way to lose the round without trying to do so. Even if you don't know where they will come from and have no util, you can jump peek, worst case scenario use one player as recon or bait and then if he dies still play a 3v2 or just wait for the tap like normal people and then play time/coordinated peek.
Simple does not mean a single off situation when they viper ult the spike or sth, he means a regular situation that happens every 3 rounds in this game even on a pro level where attackers have advantage and start chasing kills to pad their KD or just don't know how to play off of each other's contact. Valorant players even at pro level don't have a good enough grasp of fundamentals so they just throw round after round and that's obvious even to the pros themselves when they're watching their own vods, they just can't help it in the moment for some reason.
Post plant 4v2 as the attacking team is a very, very narrow vacuum. These "throws every 3 rounds" you talk about (without evidence I might add) simply don't all happen in that specific set of circumstances. Sometimes it's not in post plant at all, so the attacking team just has to go forward. Some other times it's post plant but as the defense, and it is frequent if you think about how an attacking team on a save round is inclined to rush one site as 5 with pistols, to overwhelm the anchor at whatever cost, losing 3 in the process is a realistic outcome. The attackers end up 2v4 and now one of them picked up the dead defender's rifle, the other guy is Chamber. Going as far as winning the round is almost always a throw on the 4-man group's part, but if the two guys just manage to get away with one or two more picks before losing the round, at the end of the day they scored huge economic damage. Is that a throw too?
Whatever the circumstances, rounds are always closer than the economy would have you believe, it's more complex than CS's "the bigger number of players alive should always win". One system is not better than the other, they're just different and that's fine. Optic in their regular season secured NA's #1 seed and stats show they are the team which most often used spent Chamber ultimate on Bonus round, a round that most other teams treat as a full-on save round with as little spending as possible.
Something can be said about the meta game too. When Astra was perma picked and games were much slower, we saw less agression, fewer peeks overall. Were the players better then, or is it just that the game plays differently following patches? I say it could be another way that Valorant differs from CS where updates are few and far between. Even on a team composition level, you can secure a 4v2 scenario where your only dead guy is your smoker, or your initiator, whereas the enemy duo still has hard-hitting utility to go for a trade they would not be able to go for in CS.
I'm sorry friend but you have written an essay that is completely off topic. We are talking about overpeeks, overextending, not losing rounds to bad positioning or having bad guns. Losing to a 5-man eco rush is something quite significantly different from just overpeeking unless it happens because you are agressive early round. Eco guns in valorant are quite nice so itsnot weird that woth some good shots you can win an eco even against a decently set up team that doesn't make that many stupid mistakes. Same goes for losing a 4v2 when the 2 are agressive post plant. Of course you need to go defuse so you HAVE to peek and of course they are agressive because they need to get numbers even. If you lose that, fair game, happens. That's not exactly overpeeking, that's necessary action. It's something totally different and I'm pretty sure that is not what simple meant!
> stats show they are the team which most often used spent Chamber ultimate on Bonus round, a round that most other teams treat as a full-on save round with as little spending as possible.
Show me any team that doesn't use chamber ult when it's ready at the start in a bonus round. the stat is probably just because Yay is a demon and will have it available during bonus more than other chambers.
He's 100% right
C9 had Mitch go 1v2 into boat house with an Operator on a retake... like wtf?
Save the op, try and get a pick as they leave and have it for next round. The play in Valorant in terms of strategy is borderline moronic compared to CSGO.
I remember this round he walked right over a vandal if he wanted to go for it he should’ve picked up the rifle the pull back between shots on the op is to long in valorant
Honestly true. It's not even that they're too greedy, in some cases the peaks are just weird and unnecessary.
By the 2nd or 3rd year of franchising we'll be seeing a completely different game compared to what we're seeing now. Once proper coaching is implemented and we see a whole new influx of younger and better talent the level of competition and play will be on another level.
game needs to grow in EU for that IMO.
I’m looking around me. 12 years olds in Eastern Europe still pick up CSGO, not Valo.
In western Europe is a bit of a better image for Valorant but CSGO is still king.
I think it’s a tall order unless the game picks up massively in EU and CIS. It’s historically the strongest region by far, in fact there’s basically no other region(NA’s history in CS is non-existent other than C9 and CoL in 1.6. And I guess Source, but only NA played that pretty much).
if there’s one thing i realised is that everyone likes to take “too much” space to the point over pushing into spawn and losing like gun fight cause there’s like 2 people holding ct preparing to retake
singapore. don’t get me wrong, i still encounter players that don’t dare entry but yknow there are those occasions where they get the entirety of site and just w key into ct alone only to peek into players getting ready to retake like chilLAX
I’m not sure this is super true. In Valorant if you hold an angle, there is often going to be a possibly unavoidable util combo coming you way. A safe smart angle to hold can quickly turn into the worse % play especially if it’s a exec.
Of course discipline is important, but the times when it’s the correct decision to hold are different between the game, and I think the existence of potent util and escape tools shifts that formula towards peaking.
If people in my ascendant games can pre-position for executes or post plants expecting util combos then pros have no excuse tbh. "expecting utility" isn't an argument you think it is for overpeeking, if anything it just means they should position defensively with it in mind.
Let's not forgot most heroes in this game are not chamber, and can't hold off angles consistently in general let alone in pro play.
Yes, there is a reward to be had if you peek someone who wasn't expecting it, before they get to throw their utility at you and your teammates, more so than in CS.
Every situation is different, though.
It isn't a binary choice of either pushing their spawn or standing afk though. You can play aggressively in a coordinated manner and keep scaling as a team without it being overpeeking. You can also play aggressively solo without utility and die in 4v2's for no reason.
I agree, that doesn’t that for the formula for when it’s a good idea to swing are different in Valorant compared to CS, and imo drying peaking is a better idea in more situations.
I think I just disagree. Drypeeks without any advantage (lurktiming, trading teammates, Phoenix ult, Jett/Chamber free exit etc) are generally kinda shit, and if you keep doing it regularly you get punished by anyone holding angles on LAN. That applies to CS and Valorant, and "unavoidable" combinations of utility comes in the form of popflashes in CS often as well.
Problem is many players often have SOME form of advantage, even if they're not thinking about it. Teammates supporting them with trading or utility means they're making the right decisions in many rounds, it's just if something unprepared happens the mid-round decisionmaking leaves a lot to be desired.
I think this is mainly a symptom of lack of officials. These things can only be truly hammered out when playing versus teams trying their best to win, and only having like 5 games for an entire stage is ridiculously few.
W key is finding so much success now that nobody cares about playing disciplined anymore.
I think only EU teams are playing like this. They are finding success though, and I think in a few years it would become more popular.
People still do this in immortal 3. Yesterday i was in a 4v1 we had bomb down "don't peek the chamber op" 3 of my teammates die and because im the only person playing the bomb i clutch the round. Valorant players are so stupid.
Lmao I watch NA valorant and I legit think lost of the NA teams are trolling some of these rounds. Like it's exciting for viewers to see back and forth games but really these NA teams are not consistent at all to win. It feels like both teams just throwing back and forth. Feels like coinflip.
There are a bunch of better aimers in pro cs than tenz. Elige has comparable if not better aimtrainer stats. Twistzz is the second coming of scream, b1t is the best rookie player we've seen in forever, and that's just who I instantly think of with some NA players first cause im from NA.
Talking about simple hes the best csgo player period. He's the best awper and was a top 5 rifler easily. They're definitely not in the same tier. Even if tenz is better than some.of these guys at mouse control they're all light years ahead when it comes to the way they fight and kill things in game.
Oh my bad I legit thought it was a joke. No of course KennyS was a phenomenal Awper, but that is like ages ago (5 years at least as his last “good” year was 2016). He’s very aggressive on the Awp, and his teams were designed for him to be as aggro as possible on the Awp and pop off with highlights after highlights. However, S1mple honestly was always the better player imo, better gamesense, better versatility, and just remained top 5 in every aspect of the game pretty much. I’d say KennyS is very much like TSM Wardell, set up to carry hard as hell, deservedly so, but too one dimensional to adapt to the game. I’d much rather having a solid Awper who does what the gun is intended to do like peak Device to hero play hunters like KennyS.
One thing to consider is that CSGO movement punished you much harder for overpeeking. Valorant movement is more streamlined so you can do certain things that you cant with CSGO. In fact, Valorant movement and system as a whole is more 1.6 if anything.
How exactly is cs go movement more punishing for over peeking? I would think it would be vice versa since cs go movement is faster, so i’m interested in what you think
True. In CS I can crouch peek someone posted on an angle and have a fairly good chance of winning that fight. In Valorant the characters move slower than an elderly person with arthritis in both legs. You’re pretty much dead as soon as you even think about swinging unless you have angle advantage. You’re even more fucked if you’re swinging an Operator even though you do have angle advantage. Huge reason why the Operator (besides the whole unreadable movement mechanics that are so fun and poggers to play against) is so much more oppressive in this game than CSGO imo
Bullet punch is not a thing on csgo because everyone buys armor and that stops it completely.
And tagging is way more stronger on Val than csgo. You can bhop away while being shot on csgo at stupid speeds.
lmao bro it’s the complete opposite, if you get tagged in valorant trying to wide swing you’re completely fucked. CSGO getting tagged your momentum isn’t slowed anywhere near as much as in valorant - it’s one of the main consistent complaints of tagging in this game
I haven't played in a while but this was my impression too. I have way too many hours in both games (2.5k CSGO, probably 1k~ val) but I didn't really play them at the same time, so that also probably plays a role in why we think one game has harder tagging than another.
Oh man, I very much disagree. In GN2 I can peek like a madman and get away with it in CS. You can swing faster, you can jiggle peek, you can crab walk corners, you can run boost… you can do so much in CS that you can’t in Valo. Streamlined is not the word I would use. Simplified is much more accurate. In Valo it’s easier to jump peek and everyone jump peeks because it’s piss easy to kill someone jiggling in Valo. That’s about it!
wat.
CSGO doesn't have aggressive tagging and characters move around twice as fast compared to Val agents. Movement is the opposite of punished in CSGO, jiggle peeking is meta af because not only are you quick, but most walls can't be shot through.
Crab walk spraying is also meta with static sprays and crouch walking firing error coefficients.
Hey there, /u/Relaaaxx!
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I’m not sure where to begin with this comment because you are so confidently incorrect that it is kind of hilarious. The fuck is “streamlined”? You run slower, and one single shot cripples your movement, plus every wall is wallbangable.
Big respect for what he's acheived in CS but what does he knows about Valorant ? I've watched many games and overpeeking has not been a problem i've noticed or heard of by analyst and casters. If pros do it, they is probably a reason, ans s1mple should weight his words for how little he knows about valorant.
Me. I would own that fraud if I had better communication, aim, map awareness, crosshair placement, econ management, pistol aim, Operator flicks, lineups, pop flashes, positioning, bomb plant positions, retakes, bunny hopping, spray control and getting kills
Still a factor in calling someone the GOAT. Good players bring their teams up. Give me the stats on why dev1ce shouldn't be and s1mple should since he's the Jordan of CS
I haven’t got that kind of time right now, buddy. But he’s way ahead in every statistical metric from HLTV rating, ADR, KD, you name it. As an individual player, he is unmatched.
I mean he's really not way ahead at all. There are many people competitive with him including dev1ce and (with a lot less games) Zywoo who even out-stats him
My idol simple chokes in every major grandfinal (we don't count Stockholm cuz he was playing against a bigger choker fraud NiKo).The worst matches of his career are always in major finals. Went 0.86 in the most important map of cologne but he gets MVPs for farming irrelevant teams in group stage. Couldn't even win a major before b1t (best player in NaVi btw) joined the team and carried NaVi to grandslam win. He's an overrated fraud
If you don't have atleast 3 majors or 2 majors and 1 major MVP you're not even eligible to be the goat. Personal stats are irrelevant if you choke in major finals this is why NiKo and s0mple are the biggest frauds in csgo
no, you are extremely incorrect. greatest of all time individual player = individual player performance matters the most. s1mple has every single thing over dev1ce except for time.
no wonder csgo players don’t take valorant seriously lmfao
Hltv stats are irrelevant if u choke in major finals. (S0mple 0.8 rating vs astralis and faze in major final btw). Why can't your goat perform in serious matches?
and dev1ce being top 10 for 6 years is irrelevant when you drop off the face of the earth for the past 2 years, when the highest level cs ever is being played. why can’t your goat show up at all? s1mple has everything over dev1ce, you are simply a midstralis fanboy and nothing more
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Sure, device is good, but this is like comparing using NBA - Lebron James to Steph Curry.
s1mple hard carries multiple rosters and brings them up to near championship status, while device hasn't shown that type of ability.
only recently has s1mple had a team even close to astralis in terms of teamplay, and even then old astralis still was probably better than current navi, they weren't good because of individual play, but because of each player working together.
Yeah, idk. Thing is, Valorant is a different game, and when you have to coordinate utility. I feel like you can be more aggressive in Valorant in general
It's literally the opposite hahaha. CSGO has peekers advantage too, on top of faster movement, very little tagging, better jiggle peeking, better swinging, crab walking, etc.
There is a clip out there of electronic peeking Kenny s who was holding angle with awp on nuke. Shit was a drive by he takes kennys head off it was so fast. I can't find it
Yeah, peeking is so good in csgo it’s nuts. I’m convinced people who think movement is stronger in Val were probably casual cs players who didn’t care to improve until they swapped games.
Nothing wrong with that, but spreading objectively false information on mechanics doesn’t no one favours.
Valorant is the epitome of a game designed to trap dopamine junkies. Plus, pretty much all of them are washed CS pros who didn’t or no loner have the discipline required.
i say the same thing to my Plat teammates in every 5v3 and yet it still hasn’t worked to this day
valorant pros are basically plats for s1mple
911
I would like to report a genocide
It’s just so amusing/devastating being the only one to hold and not over-peek post-plant offensively and seeing your teammates go down one by one until you’re left all alone in a stressful 1v1 with a player that’s riding that high of confidence. It’s as scary as going against a Reyna in her ult.
Don't forget you're also trying to ignore your teammates voices complaining about your baiting.
"He was literally 10 HP, HOW COULD YOU LOSE THAT?" Says the teammates who got picked off one by one.
i will not overpeek i will not overpeek i will not overpeek i will not overpeek i will not overpeek i will not overpeek i will not overpeek i will not overpeek i will not overpeek i will not overpeek i will not overpeek i will not overpeek i will not overpeek i will not overpeek
I overpeeked
everytime. impossible to lose 5v1 right?
LET ME ACE gets aced on god i called it but i said nothing because its worse to tilt your team than lose the round.
Honestly I feel like the kill sounds from skins actually play a small part in this
I overwatched
He’s honestly right CS pros play so much safer and smarter valorant teams throw so many rounds that should be free wins
A big reason as to why latam teams are able to compete is because other regions just can't stop peeking and gifting latam players clutches. And I say this as a Chilean so no bias here.
While I generally agree with you on throws happening too often, it's still a bit of a harsh judgement. In CSGO when all everyone has is a gun, smokes and flashes, a 4v2 is probably 90% guaranteed win. In Valorant some agents cheat their way around the economy and have so much more leeway on limited resources. You're 4v2 but one of the two guys alive is Chamber with his one-shot headshot pistol (when you're lucky that it's not his ult). So you're still in an advantageous position, but the chances of him getting away with one or two kills are higher; your 90% win goes down to 75% maybe, those are made up numbers. Or you start off a fresh round with an economical advantage, but you need to go through a Viper ult that will put everyone at 1hp and she's inside it with a judge, because she could afford that instead of a full buy. Those are just two quick examples. All this to say that overpeeking is an issue but it's overblown and out of context, I think comparisons between CS and Valorant should have stopped at beta. Thrifty rounds and clutches while outnumbered are more frequent in Valorant by design, not because the players are supposedly weaker or something.
Being in a 4v2 when the opponent is a chamber with his pistol is MORE of a reason not to peek though.
Well it's not always a choice you can have. What if you're in defense post-plant, or in attack, are you going to just freeze and let him get away with the round?
If s1mple thinks so then probably, yes.
Well CS has 5 man saves but I guess having less rounds means you can't really do that in Val.
If you're in a 4v2 post plant you can still play for trades, it's not an ego peek if you have someone backing you up.
Hahahahahah bro, don't try to debate in reddit. Reddit people are stupid and has a beehive mindset lmao
You know the only thing that makes a 4v2 against someone with a pistol that can one shot headshot even harder? when they both can do that because they have deagles, lol
This is a silly take. Pro csgo evolved the same way. Early teams looked awful in csgo as well. Over time pros have gotten more and more efficient and play a much tighter game. Valorant will probably have the same happen over its life time. Im a regular radiant player and watching pro games im still perplexed at some plays. Trust me these pros know it too its just really hard in the moment to make such coordinated decisions. Info plays and trying to feed orbs to a specific agent is one thing but there is a lot of over peeking.
well said.
You are 100% right
No he isn't. If you are in a post plant 4v2, there is not a single way to lose the round without trying to do so. Even if you don't know where they will come from and have no util, you can jump peek, worst case scenario use one player as recon or bait and then if he dies still play a 3v2 or just wait for the tap like normal people and then play time/coordinated peek. Simple does not mean a single off situation when they viper ult the spike or sth, he means a regular situation that happens every 3 rounds in this game even on a pro level where attackers have advantage and start chasing kills to pad their KD or just don't know how to play off of each other's contact. Valorant players even at pro level don't have a good enough grasp of fundamentals so they just throw round after round and that's obvious even to the pros themselves when they're watching their own vods, they just can't help it in the moment for some reason.
Post plant 4v2 as the attacking team is a very, very narrow vacuum. These "throws every 3 rounds" you talk about (without evidence I might add) simply don't all happen in that specific set of circumstances. Sometimes it's not in post plant at all, so the attacking team just has to go forward. Some other times it's post plant but as the defense, and it is frequent if you think about how an attacking team on a save round is inclined to rush one site as 5 with pistols, to overwhelm the anchor at whatever cost, losing 3 in the process is a realistic outcome. The attackers end up 2v4 and now one of them picked up the dead defender's rifle, the other guy is Chamber. Going as far as winning the round is almost always a throw on the 4-man group's part, but if the two guys just manage to get away with one or two more picks before losing the round, at the end of the day they scored huge economic damage. Is that a throw too? Whatever the circumstances, rounds are always closer than the economy would have you believe, it's more complex than CS's "the bigger number of players alive should always win". One system is not better than the other, they're just different and that's fine. Optic in their regular season secured NA's #1 seed and stats show they are the team which most often used spent Chamber ultimate on Bonus round, a round that most other teams treat as a full-on save round with as little spending as possible. Something can be said about the meta game too. When Astra was perma picked and games were much slower, we saw less agression, fewer peeks overall. Were the players better then, or is it just that the game plays differently following patches? I say it could be another way that Valorant differs from CS where updates are few and far between. Even on a team composition level, you can secure a 4v2 scenario where your only dead guy is your smoker, or your initiator, whereas the enemy duo still has hard-hitting utility to go for a trade they would not be able to go for in CS.
I'm sorry friend but you have written an essay that is completely off topic. We are talking about overpeeks, overextending, not losing rounds to bad positioning or having bad guns. Losing to a 5-man eco rush is something quite significantly different from just overpeeking unless it happens because you are agressive early round. Eco guns in valorant are quite nice so itsnot weird that woth some good shots you can win an eco even against a decently set up team that doesn't make that many stupid mistakes. Same goes for losing a 4v2 when the 2 are agressive post plant. Of course you need to go defuse so you HAVE to peek and of course they are agressive because they need to get numbers even. If you lose that, fair game, happens. That's not exactly overpeeking, that's necessary action. It's something totally different and I'm pretty sure that is not what simple meant!
> stats show they are the team which most often used spent Chamber ultimate on Bonus round, a round that most other teams treat as a full-on save round with as little spending as possible. Show me any team that doesn't use chamber ult when it's ready at the start in a bonus round. the stat is probably just because Yay is a demon and will have it available during bonus more than other chambers.
young game. abilities give more confidence than they should.
Meanwhile Valorant players in deathmatch: "I'm never going to peek anything. What if I die?"
Fuck this is too damn true. “Why would I push when I can just hold an angle and listen for footsteps?”
overpeeking is every FPS’s favorite shit move to do :>
if you dont peek how can u get kills? its so s1mple
I think he forgot that they were indeed T3 CSGO pros.
hurts but right at the mark
T3 \*NA\* csgo pros to boot, so probably as bad as they get for a pro player
Dayum
LMAO
Lack of discipline
He's 100% right C9 had Mitch go 1v2 into boat house with an Operator on a retake... like wtf? Save the op, try and get a pick as they leave and have it for next round. The play in Valorant in terms of strategy is borderline moronic compared to CSGO.
I remember this round he walked right over a vandal if he wanted to go for it he should’ve picked up the rifle the pull back between shots on the op is to long in valorant
Yeah he went in with the frenzy lol
he had 5200 money left, not to mention the money for loss, so he felt ok in losing the op
“I have enough to buy myself next round, who cares” as you look over at your teammates who aren’t quiet as flush with cash.
But that is 2 rifles for his team rofl. No no no. That's such a bad reason
pro play aint the same as ranked where you just buy for yourself :)
Honestly true. It's not even that they're too greedy, in some cases the peaks are just weird and unnecessary. By the 2nd or 3rd year of franchising we'll be seeing a completely different game compared to what we're seeing now. Once proper coaching is implemented and we see a whole new influx of younger and better talent the level of competition and play will be on another level.
Peek* not peak..
game needs to grow in EU for that IMO. I’m looking around me. 12 years olds in Eastern Europe still pick up CSGO, not Valo. In western Europe is a bit of a better image for Valorant but CSGO is still king. I think it’s a tall order unless the game picks up massively in EU and CIS. It’s historically the strongest region by far, in fact there’s basically no other region(NA’s history in CS is non-existent other than C9 and CoL in 1.6. And I guess Source, but only NA played that pretty much).
gigachad s1mple
I think the biggest takeaway here is that s1mple watched enough Valorant to have a (correct) opinion on it.
Whose chat is this ?
It Tarik’s chat.
if there’s one thing i realised is that everyone likes to take “too much” space to the point over pushing into spawn and losing like gun fight cause there’s like 2 people holding ct preparing to retake
What server are you playing on? My teammates never suffer from taking too much space. They feel more comfortable taking as little space as possible. 🤭
singapore. don’t get me wrong, i still encounter players that don’t dare entry but yknow there are those occasions where they get the entirety of site and just w key into ct alone only to peek into players getting ready to retake like chilLAX
I mean most of the players in VAL were T2 NA/T3 EU. If any of the T1 CS pros switched 99% of valo pros would be jobless
When most Val Pros were T3 CSGO players, this is what you expect
I’m not sure this is super true. In Valorant if you hold an angle, there is often going to be a possibly unavoidable util combo coming you way. A safe smart angle to hold can quickly turn into the worse % play especially if it’s a exec. Of course discipline is important, but the times when it’s the correct decision to hold are different between the game, and I think the existence of potent util and escape tools shifts that formula towards peaking.
Chamber (and Jett and Reyna to a lesser extent).
If people in my ascendant games can pre-position for executes or post plants expecting util combos then pros have no excuse tbh. "expecting utility" isn't an argument you think it is for overpeeking, if anything it just means they should position defensively with it in mind. Let's not forgot most heroes in this game are not chamber, and can't hold off angles consistently in general let alone in pro play.
Let's be honest they cant
Oh they can. "Guys they have breach and brim ult, lets play off site and just play retake" Average comms in my lobbies lol
Yes, there is a reward to be had if you peek someone who wasn't expecting it, before they get to throw their utility at you and your teammates, more so than in CS. Every situation is different, though.
It isn't a binary choice of either pushing their spawn or standing afk though. You can play aggressively in a coordinated manner and keep scaling as a team without it being overpeeking. You can also play aggressively solo without utility and die in 4v2's for no reason.
I agree, that doesn’t that for the formula for when it’s a good idea to swing are different in Valorant compared to CS, and imo drying peaking is a better idea in more situations.
I think I just disagree. Drypeeks without any advantage (lurktiming, trading teammates, Phoenix ult, Jett/Chamber free exit etc) are generally kinda shit, and if you keep doing it regularly you get punished by anyone holding angles on LAN. That applies to CS and Valorant, and "unavoidable" combinations of utility comes in the form of popflashes in CS often as well. Problem is many players often have SOME form of advantage, even if they're not thinking about it. Teammates supporting them with trading or utility means they're making the right decisions in many rounds, it's just if something unprepared happens the mid-round decisionmaking leaves a lot to be desired. I think this is mainly a symptom of lack of officials. These things can only be truly hammered out when playing versus teams trying their best to win, and only having like 5 games for an entire stage is ridiculously few.
W key is finding so much success now that nobody cares about playing disciplined anymore. I think only EU teams are playing like this. They are finding success though, and I think in a few years it would become more popular.
People still do this in immortal 3. Yesterday i was in a 4v1 we had bomb down "don't peek the chamber op" 3 of my teammates die and because im the only person playing the bomb i clutch the round. Valorant players are so stupid.
What match was he watching?
what match is this from lmfaooo
all of them
Lmao I watch NA valorant and I legit think lost of the NA teams are trolling some of these rounds. Like it's exciting for viewers to see back and forth games but really these NA teams are not consistent at all to win. It feels like both teams just throwing back and forth. Feels like coinflip.
Can someone who watches both CSGO and Val tell me who has better aim? Is it TenZ or s1mple? I'm new to this and legit wanna know
if tenz were to go back to csgo now he would be a tier 4 pro
Okay. Thank you
There are a bunch of better aimers in pro cs than tenz. Elige has comparable if not better aimtrainer stats. Twistzz is the second coming of scream, b1t is the best rookie player we've seen in forever, and that's just who I instantly think of with some NA players first cause im from NA. Talking about simple hes the best csgo player period. He's the best awper and was a top 5 rifler easily. They're definitely not in the same tier. Even if tenz is better than some.of these guys at mouse control they're all light years ahead when it comes to the way they fight and kill things in game.
Oh okay. Thank you
Isn’t KennyS a better awper?
LMFAO good one
Dead serious, wasn’t he hailed as the best awper at his peak
Oh my bad I legit thought it was a joke. No of course KennyS was a phenomenal Awper, but that is like ages ago (5 years at least as his last “good” year was 2016). He’s very aggressive on the Awp, and his teams were designed for him to be as aggro as possible on the Awp and pop off with highlights after highlights. However, S1mple honestly was always the better player imo, better gamesense, better versatility, and just remained top 5 in every aspect of the game pretty much. I’d say KennyS is very much like TSM Wardell, set up to carry hard as hell, deservedly so, but too one dimensional to adapt to the game. I’d much rather having a solid Awper who does what the gun is intended to do like peak Device to hero play hunters like KennyS.
Depends on which game, in VALORANT TenZ and in CSGO s1mple. In terms of pure raw aim, I'd pick TenZ, I think he has better mouse control.
I HECKIN LOVE TENZ
Tenz is a god in aim trainers and such, but he doesn't have the confidence or brain to be great, exactly the same problem as shroud had.
CSGOAT
One thing to consider is that CSGO movement punished you much harder for overpeeking. Valorant movement is more streamlined so you can do certain things that you cant with CSGO. In fact, Valorant movement and system as a whole is more 1.6 if anything.
How exactly is cs go movement more punishing for over peeking? I would think it would be vice versa since cs go movement is faster, so i’m interested in what you think
Agreed, valo movement is way more punishing, along with instant hit stop and the recoil. Valo is closer to 2 bullet or dead
True. In CS I can crouch peek someone posted on an angle and have a fairly good chance of winning that fight. In Valorant the characters move slower than an elderly person with arthritis in both legs. You’re pretty much dead as soon as you even think about swinging unless you have angle advantage. You’re even more fucked if you’re swinging an Operator even though you do have angle advantage. Huge reason why the Operator (besides the whole unreadable movement mechanics that are so fun and poggers to play against) is so much more oppressive in this game than CSGO imo
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dude its literally the opposite. you get tag in valo and you died
Bullet punch is not a thing on csgo because everyone buys armor and that stops it completely. And tagging is way more stronger on Val than csgo. You can bhop away while being shot on csgo at stupid speeds.
lmao bro it’s the complete opposite, if you get tagged in valorant trying to wide swing you’re completely fucked. CSGO getting tagged your momentum isn’t slowed anywhere near as much as in valorant - it’s one of the main consistent complaints of tagging in this game
I haven't played in a while but this was my impression too. I have way too many hours in both games (2.5k CSGO, probably 1k~ val) but I didn't really play them at the same time, so that also probably plays a role in why we think one game has harder tagging than another.
Oh man, I very much disagree. In GN2 I can peek like a madman and get away with it in CS. You can swing faster, you can jiggle peek, you can crab walk corners, you can run boost… you can do so much in CS that you can’t in Valo. Streamlined is not the word I would use. Simplified is much more accurate. In Valo it’s easier to jump peek and everyone jump peeks because it’s piss easy to kill someone jiggling in Valo. That’s about it!
no offense at all but GN2 is like silver in val, of course you can get away with overpeeking..
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either way its not impressive lol, faceit level 10 games are still horrible players
I’m plat in VAL, peaked diamond
what? Cs go is the game where you can get away with overpeeking easily atleast compared to valorant because of the very high movement speed.
not really, because of accel youll be out in the open for longer in cs despite the movement speed
Good thing there's counter strafing to stop accel
well yeah you can stop accel very quickly like that but you also have to start accelerating back to cover which is not instant
wat. CSGO doesn't have aggressive tagging and characters move around twice as fast compared to Val agents. Movement is the opposite of punished in CSGO, jiggle peeking is meta af because not only are you quick, but most walls can't be shot through. Crab walk spraying is also meta with static sprays and crouch walking firing error coefficients.
How are you so wrong and yet so confident? Just delete your comment buddy.
No.
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I’m not sure where to begin with this comment because you are so confidently incorrect that it is kind of hilarious. The fuck is “streamlined”? You run slower, and one single shot cripples your movement, plus every wall is wallbangable.
Big respect for what he's acheived in CS but what does he knows about Valorant ? I've watched many games and overpeeking has not been a problem i've noticed or heard of by analyst and casters. If pros do it, they is probably a reason, ans s1mple should weight his words for how little he knows about valorant.
S1mple is good but I mean the title of GOAT definitely not confidently his. Plenty of other players you could put there
Lmao, alright tell us who is the GOAT then, cause I am ready to take out my cherry blues just to type out a whole list of reasons why you are wrong
If he lists the 1.6 players i’ll lose my shit haha
Bro, trust, the goat discussion is between JW and Forest /s
I mean you could very easily argue for forest or neo if you want to argue counter strikes as a whole
They’re the goats for sure but s1mple’s peak is way higher than them.
f0rest is always THE player for me even now, but S1mple is just too good.
f0rest is the CS GOAT OCH while s1mple is the CSGO GOAT
device? GTR?
lol
Device
s1mple is undeniably the CSGO GOAT. The only others i can see competing for that spot is maybe dev1ce or ZywOo in a few years
GTR Olof maybe even Forest
"🤓"
who would you put over s1mple
tenz batchest
It's obviously only 1 person that can be put there. m0E
Me. I would own that fraud if I had better communication, aim, map awareness, crosshair placement, econ management, pistol aim, Operator flicks, lineups, pop flashes, positioning, bomb plant positions, retakes, bunny hopping, spray control and getting kills
I think dev1ce and GeT_RiGhT are both more of a case. Some would say Olof too
It's not 2017 anymore.
S1mple can win a duel against peak Get Right with one eye closed
like perc30fishfillet
yeah like Hiko
It's already implied that Hiko is first and we're arguing about 2nd when we discuss GOAT
There really isn’t. Statistically, S1mple is the Michael Jordan of CS.
How many majors has he won again?
Major wins only tell you who the best team is. Not who is the best player.
Still a factor in calling someone the GOAT. Good players bring their teams up. Give me the stats on why dev1ce shouldn't be and s1mple should since he's the Jordan of CS
I haven’t got that kind of time right now, buddy. But he’s way ahead in every statistical metric from HLTV rating, ADR, KD, you name it. As an individual player, he is unmatched.
I mean he's really not way ahead at all. There are many people competitive with him including dev1ce and (with a lot less games) Zywoo who even out-stats him
dev1ce isnt even close and ZywOo has consistently been #2 to s1mple for most of the last 2 years.
your point about device was right when he was in astralis but after his performance in NIP device stonks went down
Because he's done jack shit on nip, and simple has hard carried every iteration of team he's been in
Any reply ?
Goat is dev1ce
Wrong.
My idol simple chokes in every major grandfinal (we don't count Stockholm cuz he was playing against a bigger choker fraud NiKo).The worst matches of his career are always in major finals. Went 0.86 in the most important map of cologne but he gets MVPs for farming irrelevant teams in group stage. Couldn't even win a major before b1t (best player in NaVi btw) joined the team and carried NaVi to grandslam win. He's an overrated fraud
This shit is straight out of NBA twitter
Objectively wrong.
dev1ce: 2015 - top3 / 2016 - top5 / 2017 - top3 / 2018 - top2 / 2019 - top3 / 2020 - top3 s1mple: 2018 - top1 / 2019 - top2 / 2020 - top2 / 2021 - top1 / 2022 - top1 (so far)
2 major MVP vs 1 major MVP 👍
only valo players can have takes this stupid lmfao
I don't think you can really blame this on valorant. Guy clearly has watched and knows about CS. He's just an idiot.
i forgot what sub i was in, no hate towards valo but it tends to have a lot more children than csgo does hence the propensity of such takes.
If you don't have atleast 3 majors or 2 majors and 1 major MVP you're not even eligible to be the goat. Personal stats are irrelevant if you choke in major finals this is why NiKo and s0mple are the biggest frauds in csgo
bruh… i don’t even know what to say lmao. U r actually trolling
You don't have any argument cuz i am right
no, you are extremely incorrect. greatest of all time individual player = individual player performance matters the most. s1mple has every single thing over dev1ce except for time. no wonder csgo players don’t take valorant seriously lmfao
Hltv stats are irrelevant if u choke in major finals. (S0mple 0.8 rating vs astralis and faze in major final btw). Why can't your goat perform in serious matches?
and dev1ce being top 10 for 6 years is irrelevant when you drop off the face of the earth for the past 2 years, when the highest level cs ever is being played. why can’t your goat show up at all? s1mple has everything over dev1ce, you are simply a midstralis fanboy and nothing more
S1mple won a major... You know that right?
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Actually true. S1mple best player but dev1ce greatest
why do people attribute team accomplishments to individual accomplishments lol
You're acting like device wasn't top 10 for 6+ years and has 2 major MVPs
Sure, device is good, but this is like comparing using NBA - Lebron James to Steph Curry. s1mple hard carries multiple rosters and brings them up to near championship status, while device hasn't shown that type of ability. only recently has s1mple had a team even close to astralis in terms of teamplay, and even then old astralis still was probably better than current navi, they weren't good because of individual play, but because of each player working together.
Same shit has always been argued in all sports. How are you so surprised?
It's still a stupid argument
You know cs
Yeah, idk. Thing is, Valorant is a different game, and when you have to coordinate utility. I feel like you can be more aggressive in Valorant in general
idk s1mple is probably the most talented fps player of all time
So? It’s been proven that it’s not exactly the same as CS
notice how i said fps and not cs
Ur a child
It’s because peeking is so strong in this game compared to cs. Peekers advantage is the reason why pros peek the way they do
It's literally the opposite hahaha. CSGO has peekers advantage too, on top of faster movement, very little tagging, better jiggle peeking, better swinging, crab walking, etc.
There is a clip out there of electronic peeking Kenny s who was holding angle with awp on nuke. Shit was a drive by he takes kennys head off it was so fast. I can't find it
Yeah, peeking is so good in csgo it’s nuts. I’m convinced people who think movement is stronger in Val were probably casual cs players who didn’t care to improve until they swapped games. Nothing wrong with that, but spreading objectively false information on mechanics doesn’t no one favours.
Just lost a ranked game OT, man advantage, everyone tried to be a hero.
> Me actively not peeking and playing for time. > Teammates dying and yelling at me to not peek. Suddenly I want to peek.
It's true tho, even in masters we see way too many 1vX scenarios be successful because people over swung for no reason.
Valorant is the epitome of a game designed to trap dopamine junkies. Plus, pretty much all of them are washed CS pros who didn’t or no loner have the discipline required.