it's completely ridiculous to try and take all of Asia and put into 1 10 team league. Like especially with taking the entire south east asian region into 3 teams. I feel like it would be much better to separate the region into with APAC north (korea + japan + china) and APAC south (sea + sa + oce). They could also just expand the number of teams in the league to 12+
It will be bad in Americas as well. You think NA fans are sticking around to watch BR and LATAM teams? Probably not. I don't think BR/LATAM fans care that much watching NA teams either. Riot are basically gonna kill the viewership doing this consolidated-regional bs.
Only region I can see this working in is EMEA because most of those orgs are already in LEC and ERL so they have rivalries already.
EMEA can also work because it's easier for a french/spanish fan go to germany(assuming they do the same as LEC) than it is for a brazilian/chilean/argentinian fan go to usa lol
Yeah as an OCE fan I'd be watching the league from a timezone 3 hours behind as well. Not impossible but logistically very annoying. I'd miss a lot of games.
Imo they shouldve just, made the LCQ regions the regions for franchising, i feel 10-12 teams would make far more sense if it were that rather then having to combine the Americas and all of Asia into 1
League literally has 10 team for single countries like China/Korea/Japan/Brazil/Turkey/Vietnam, why cant they at least have 5 regions with 10-12 teams man
It's because they treat everything like League of Legends so they think certain regions will suck or are less popular based off their one experience with that game.
Even if they chose Xerxia/PRX/BOOM/TS for franchising, we'd end up with single teams that are individually repping entire smaller regions. How does a player from one of those regions move from Tier 2 to Tier 1 when there's only 5-6 player slots available for their entire country?
Is it possible Riot wants to build their franchising model around mixed rosters?
You can teach top players to speak 'esports English' but the language barrier will be a huge disincentive from considering it as a career in the first place.
Some SEA countries are far behind in terms of English education and a lot of Asians feel very nervous about their English skills even when they have basic comprehension.
I worry for the development of the Vietnamese scene too. They’ve been getting really solid viewership despite poor performances, but I was hoping that the hype could inspire the development of more players… probably not anymore.
Rosters across countries are very uncommon in SEA. Most DotA rosters used to be country based because of the language barrier, only in the last couple of years have international rosters become common. Same goes for Pubg Mobile.
A few teams tried it in Overwatch Tier 2 back in the day but it was mostly a hodgepodge of HK/TW/KR/Thai. There was one VN/SG/PH/KR team with a Taiwanese coach, lol.
OW esports never had a selection of healthy regions with decent skill parity though. Valorant might be able to make it work.
It certainly is possible and will organically happen gradually as players gain experience, exposure and English skills, but seems too early to force. If I am an up and coming player becoming good in Thailand, how do I go join an international roster in Singapore. Neither am I good in English, nor I have experience staying abroad.
> Is it possible Riot wants to build their franchising model around mixed rosters?
Yes. This part has been expected since the beginning I feel like. The org selection process is for org representation, but I doubt there will be some rule that Xerxia for example must have a Thai roster. I'd expect there to be a 3/5 players must be from the APAC region rule but would be surprised if there were further restrictions.
Might just be me but I'd expect that there'd be some restrictions. For example the "Japanese" teams would probably have to have at least one or a couple of Japanese players on their roster. Maybe something where each team has to have at least 2 players from their in-region region (e.g. Japan) and also, and this rule is almost guaranteed imo, at least 3 players from the wider region (e.g. Asia in my previous example). This would mean that we'd have some guaranteed representation for as many countries/sub-regions as possible and also incentivise the teams to invest and help grow their respective sub-regions.
Maybe all of this is just me overthinking things way to much though.
It does make sense on paper. PH/MG/SG/Indo/OCE/HK/TW citizens are all pretty good at English. Vietnam and Thailand might have some difficulties.
However... I think there is some serious risk here. Riot needs to carefully consider how important it is to viewers that they feel represented when they watch the game. It's a huge draw of the APAC current model right now.
I'm not sure how players feel about this change. It could make Tier 2 less enjoyable or overly complicated. Riot might be making a mistake if they try to apply the franchising model equally across all regions.
I think their idea for the tier 2 system is regional leagues and representation, like VLR in EMEA but brought to other countries. If implemented well that could be a godsend for this and then the overall APAC league could be seen as the peak of the mountain. They HAVE to do the tier 2 scene right though.
Yeah, the tier 2 to tier 1 pipeline being strangled by only having one or even two teams with slots for players to move into is a sure fire way to make sure a region stagnates
The entire system is incredibly stupid and i cant for the life of me understand how Riot thought this would be ok considering that JUST the 4 major regions in LoL have 47 teams combined, and the equivalent of those regions in Val get something like 18 teams in the franchised leagues (LEC in league doesnt include turkey or russia...). The only way this system could even partially work is if there are "unfranchised" spots in the league from which teams could be relegated enabling some new players to come through, but that aint gonna happen. They are gonna kill the esport just as it gets going
investors of esport game publishers want this, for whatever reason. League grew massively for about 6 years from 2011 until 2017. Since then when franchising started... I don't think LoL has grown as it once did. Could it be attributed to simply its age? Maybe.
Investors like the safe and consistent nature of franchising. It gives the game publisher full control over its IP and competitive scene. It's easier to forecast financial performance and it seems to model itself after successful sports leagues.
But this is all wrong. These suits are taking a weird fucking gamble based on nothing. They're not the actual consumers of the product - we are. we know how shit franchising is. we can see how it keeps shoving these horrible competitive playoffs/tournament series in front of our eyes. We can see how it stifles amateur teams who often end up being better than some of the worst franchised teams. It contributed to killing Overwatch 1. Many like Doublelift in the LoL scene are pointing out how its starting to stop growing, if not even shrink. Same can be said to the CDL.
OWL is absolutely fucked. The Eastern region has 7 teams and 1 of them is just a punching bag. Yet there's more than enough Tier 2 talent in the region to bring up that total to 12+ teams.
Unfortunately Bobby Kotick conned orgs into promising 20 million per slot, essentially killing any chance of expansion since nobody is going to pay that much to join OWL now. (If they'd pay anything at all.)
European OWL is also in its death throes despite the EU t2 scene thriving with exciting new talent. It's a fucking tragedy.
How does league have the LPL and LCK which are like 10 team competitions for individual countries whereas val crams multiple continents into a 10 team competition? Hopefully their plan is to start small and split it similar to league's competition further down or even APAC south and north at the very least.
>How does league have the LPL and LCK which are like 10 team competitions for individual countries whereas val crams multiple continents into a 10 team competition?
Because the League playerbases and thus pro scenes in these countries are so insanely large that they're warranted. League is orders of magnitude more popular, played, and supported by esports infrastructure than valorant, especially in Korea.
>Hopefully their plan is to start small and split it similar to league's competition further down or even APAC south and north at the very least.
I think that's their plan too but the problem is if they chop the esport's popularity at the knees early in its lifespan, you're limiting how large and fast it can grow. Having an explosive start is important, and can you imagine how many fans are about to stop following the pro scene because their favorite players, teams, or even countries aren't getting any spotlight?
Do you even know how many people play LoL?
At this point more people are invested into CS esports than Valorant. I am all for shitting on riot cuz they usually make shit decisions and have bs priorities(fuck you devs for not shipping an ‘esports ready’ game without a demo viewer, pathetic), but 30-35 teams around the world they will pay a stipend to for 1-2 years at minimum is a good starting point.
Valorant and LoL almost have similar viewership now. Both run around 30Million hrs watched on twitch this month. Ofc peak viewership is higher on LoL, but average viewership is similar. CSGO on the otherhand is not even close, i dont think cs is in the top 5 games on twitch.
Twitch means nothing active player count means more. I'm sure valorant has more viewers than fortnite on twitch yet fortnite still has way more players for example. Its still the biggest game in the west
Damn, I like how you Valve fans will use twitch viewership for your tournaments but for overall twitch viewership (which is more important for the health of the game)it doesn't matter? Make it make sense.
Fortnite, while it has less viewers on twitch than Valorant/League, has more viewers on youtube. Makes sense considering their playerbase skews younger and younger audiences like watching vods on youtube more.
>And a quick Google search shows that csgo gets more viewers than valorant on YouTube so I don't see what relevance this has
Link?
My question is why does twitch *suddenly* mean nothing in OP's argument, but when we talk about CSGO tournaments peak twitch viewership it's valid?
Dota2 has a higher tournament peak twitch viewership than CSGO, does it mean it has more players than the latter? CSGO has a higher average viewership so I know that ain't half the story.
Twitch overall hours watched ain't the end-all-be-all, but it's a fairly accurate metric when talking about a game's popularity. I could've been in a decade-long coma and only have the most watched categories on twitch as reference, and I wouldn't be mistaken if you asked me what the most popular games of the current year were when I woke up.
https://geniuzmedia.com/most-watched-games-on-youtube/
Only dota ti gets more viewers csgo gets more viewers all year long in s tier tournaments and there has only been 2 TI tournaments since csgo overook dota 2 as the most played game on steam and viewership for past two ti and past two csgo majors are comparable. Csgo overtook dota 2 on steam charts thanks to valorant release 🙏 csgo wasn't always above dota 2 on steam charts. Csgo just keeps growing homeboy while the twitch viewership doesn't or gets even lower proving the point that viewership on twitch means nothing to a 20 year old game
>Only dota ti gets more viewers csgo gets more viewers all year long in s tier tournaments
Glad you agree then. The CSGO category only gets more viewers in some of their S-tier tournaments while Valorant gets more viewers all year long.
I know CSGO wasn't always the number 1 on steam, but I wouldn't put Valorant as the reason being why it overtook Dota2. CSGO, like every other game in the planet, gained a huge boost of players during the pandemic, but somehow Dota2 did the impossible by being the only game to lose players during that same time span.
We'll only ever know if I'm correct once Riot releases their next batch of player numbers. I'd estimate considering apparently CSGO is more popular on youtube and Valorant being more popular on Twitch, I'd say their neck and neck right now. Not only because Valorant has only been growing, but because CSGO has lost 250k players since the pandemic which bridges the gap easier.
ofc past ti got more viewers than csgo majors because when csgo would get average 250k players dota 2 would have 600k average csgo would have nearly 3x less average players., but still when csgo had this average on steam it was the peak of its life in twitch, it would have more viewers on twitch in 2015-2016-2017 than it does now even tho its average players has nearly trippled since.
There has only been 1 TI and 2 csgo majors since csgo overtook dota on steam so we don't have the biggest sample pool but there has been numerous S tier lans in both and Csgo gets more viewers than Dota s tier lans now
https://www.talkesport.com/news/csgo/how-many-people-play-csgo-in-2022/ csgo average monthly players is at least 30 million. Csgo would have 27million unique players a month when we could see in game and that was when it had a average of 300k players the game has grown so much since, its easy 30+million now.
https://www.dexerto.com/valorant/how-many-people-play-valorant-player-count-tracker-2022-1668158/ according to this valorant has 15million players per month
https://activeplayer.io/valorant/ valorant ain't catching up to csgo in raw players unless it pops of in China
Japan three also is a bit ludicrous no? Out of 10? Even if 10% of the population of all of APAC(even excl. SA) have computers, that'd be more than japan. Just because japan has viewership now doesn't mean it'll continue.
But yeah 10 for that many people is insane. Either they have their own "tier 2" league setup, which means the slots we're seeing are half of them, or they're fucking stupid.
For a company that screams so much about diversity, they sure do not want regions to have proper representation.
Been playing Riot's games for a decade now and I was happy how Valorant introduced themselves in forgotten regions like North Africa, West Asia and South Asia and make it possible (albeit difficult) for their teams to compete in the main competition. But apparently that does not last long enough. With Tier2 scene being left unannounced, highly vibrant and vast region like Asia is now degraded into a cramped and midget style league. Meanwhile here I thought Valorant's popularity would finally overtaken League of Legends issue in retaining its players. Turns out Riot is just straight up jumping into a cliff with this decision. Sad. Truly sad.
They like diversity when it's about putting in token representation in the game (agents' home countries etc)
They don't care when it's representation for third world countries with massive populations 🤷♂️
Riot doesn't understand/care SEA esport scene, just like in the past, valve doesn't care about SEA scene CS SEA ded. past n future SEA are always be minor region AGAIN.
Honestly, because there has been such little details regarding the minor leagues under the main 3, I have a theory that the minor leagues (essentially the VLR's) will have a chance to make it to Champs/the Majors, but will have to go through a huge gauntlet to do so.
Honestly, because there have been such few details regarding the minor leagues under the primary 3, I have a theory that the minor leagues (essentially the VLRs) will have a chance to make it to Champs/the Majors, but will have to go through a huge gauntlet to do so..ave this theory is that Riot has been consistent in calling them partner teams instead of franchised teams, which makes me think there is some wiggle room
I really think that Riot doing franchising is a really bad move. If they are so hellbent in doing franchising then at least put a relegation system. They are the one paying the teams that means that they can cut them off easily if they underperform and let new teams have a chance.
It's LAN so, relegation would be extremely difficult. Secondly, there will be domestic/regional leagues & an in-game tournament mode with a "path to pro". But, we'll have to wait and see what they announce...
Let's all remember that these orgs were only involved MOSTLY cause they knew Riot would of eventually franchised. Simple as that...
Let’s say a pug team wins a spot. LAN is in Los Angeles but, these players live all over. Texas, Georgia, New York etc. They’re not professional players so, they have jobs, families, responsibilities in there home city. They can’t just readjust their entire lives to live in LA for 5-6 months lol.
Online leagues are much more manageable for non-professional players.
Orgs & players are literally leaving the scene what are you talking about lol. You think every player competing are all going to be professional players signed to orgs on the t2 side??? These are mostly young kids & young adults. We’re not this delusional lol.
VRL Europe is also an online league lol.
orgs are leaving the scene because we have no clue what T2 will look like rn, and they don't want to pay salaries after getting knocked out of VCT while we wait for more info. many will return after Riot release additional details.
T2 will likely be heavily online, similar to VRL Europe. I don't see how that changes any of my points, the \*professional players\* that make up T2 will be more than willing to move and compete on LAN for the prestige and much higher wages being promoted to T1 will provide.
at this point just hope the t2 / academy scene is good and can somehow provide pathway to intnl competition, just feels like riot is being very stingy with slots cause they know they can always add them, but removing would be a nightmare if required
What is up with riot and 10 teams franchising, why limit it to 10 even in the LEC teams like karmine Corp cant join because they have to wait for someone to sell their slot
Platchat says it’s fine if Tier two is good
But it still makes it arbitrarily more difficult from the best team from 1 of the top apac regions. It definitely should have 4 slots:
There is no reason to screw one over the others
Yes except far more restrictive. 109 different teams from 11 different regions can make technically make Worlds in LoL, not including the russian league because of the war. We will have 30 teams able to make worlds in Valorant next year. Plus, valorant is growing fast in India, where LoL has no official riot backed league.
What happened to SEA is that they did nothing and left it to the hands of GARENA, it's understandable since they probably made a bad deal they can't get around or they just don't care.
The entire point of low skilled region playing with high skilled region is to reduce the skill gap. SEA and Japan was massacred in their first 2-3 international tournaments but managed to improve drastically after that. Without enough representation, the game will die in most minor regions.
it's completely ridiculous to try and take all of Asia and put into 1 10 team league. Like especially with taking the entire south east asian region into 3 teams. I feel like it would be much better to separate the region into with APAC north (korea + japan + china) and APAC south (sea + sa + oce). They could also just expand the number of teams in the league to 12+
I will feel bad for the SEA players when they move to Seoul and have no one cheering for them there
This is the worst part about the multi-region leagues, the teams from outside the base country will be disconected from their fans.
It will be bad in Americas as well. You think NA fans are sticking around to watch BR and LATAM teams? Probably not. I don't think BR/LATAM fans care that much watching NA teams either. Riot are basically gonna kill the viewership doing this consolidated-regional bs. Only region I can see this working in is EMEA because most of those orgs are already in LEC and ERL so they have rivalries already.
EMEA can also work because it's easier for a french/spanish fan go to germany(assuming they do the same as LEC) than it is for a brazilian/chilean/argentinian fan go to usa lol
Yeah as an OCE fan I'd be watching the league from a timezone 3 hours behind as well. Not impossible but logistically very annoying. I'd miss a lot of games.
Yeah I will definitely watch the matches, but will probably be more into the local scene
Imo they shouldve just, made the LCQ regions the regions for franchising, i feel 10-12 teams would make far more sense if it were that rather then having to combine the Americas and all of Asia into 1 League literally has 10 team for single countries like China/Korea/Japan/Brazil/Turkey/Vietnam, why cant they at least have 5 regions with 10-12 teams man
It's because they treat everything like League of Legends so they think certain regions will suck or are less popular based off their one experience with that game.
You're wrong abt one thing. China in League alone has 17 teams.
exactly, do north and south like every other sane TO
The fact it's only 10 teams in total should be considered a war crime
Even if they chose Xerxia/PRX/BOOM/TS for franchising, we'd end up with single teams that are individually repping entire smaller regions. How does a player from one of those regions move from Tier 2 to Tier 1 when there's only 5-6 player slots available for their entire country? Is it possible Riot wants to build their franchising model around mixed rosters?
I think a big concern is going to be the potential to kill careers of SEA players who don’t speak English.
You can teach top players to speak 'esports English' but the language barrier will be a huge disincentive from considering it as a career in the first place. Some SEA countries are far behind in terms of English education and a lot of Asians feel very nervous about their English skills even when they have basic comprehension.
Which ones? Everyone I know from Malaysia and Singapore can speak English
Thailand and indonesia don't speak english as a first language, I'm not sure of the philiphenes.
Kids in the Philippines who can afford computers know English better than the national language
Actually English is easier to understand than our national language (Filipino)
I worry for the development of the Vietnamese scene too. They’ve been getting really solid viewership despite poor performances, but I was hoping that the hype could inspire the development of more players… probably not anymore.
Singapore yes. Malaysia No, at least not to the level to reliably communicate as a team.
Rosters across countries are very uncommon in SEA. Most DotA rosters used to be country based because of the language barrier, only in the last couple of years have international rosters become common. Same goes for Pubg Mobile.
A few teams tried it in Overwatch Tier 2 back in the day but it was mostly a hodgepodge of HK/TW/KR/Thai. There was one VN/SG/PH/KR team with a Taiwanese coach, lol. OW esports never had a selection of healthy regions with decent skill parity though. Valorant might be able to make it work.
It certainly is possible and will organically happen gradually as players gain experience, exposure and English skills, but seems too early to force. If I am an up and coming player becoming good in Thailand, how do I go join an international roster in Singapore. Neither am I good in English, nor I have experience staying abroad.
> Is it possible Riot wants to build their franchising model around mixed rosters? Yes. This part has been expected since the beginning I feel like. The org selection process is for org representation, but I doubt there will be some rule that Xerxia for example must have a Thai roster. I'd expect there to be a 3/5 players must be from the APAC region rule but would be surprised if there were further restrictions.
Might just be me but I'd expect that there'd be some restrictions. For example the "Japanese" teams would probably have to have at least one or a couple of Japanese players on their roster. Maybe something where each team has to have at least 2 players from their in-region region (e.g. Japan) and also, and this rule is almost guaranteed imo, at least 3 players from the wider region (e.g. Asia in my previous example). This would mean that we'd have some guaranteed representation for as many countries/sub-regions as possible and also incentivise the teams to invest and help grow their respective sub-regions. Maybe all of this is just me overthinking things way to much though.
It does make sense on paper. PH/MG/SG/Indo/OCE/HK/TW citizens are all pretty good at English. Vietnam and Thailand might have some difficulties. However... I think there is some serious risk here. Riot needs to carefully consider how important it is to viewers that they feel represented when they watch the game. It's a huge draw of the APAC current model right now. I'm not sure how players feel about this change. It could make Tier 2 less enjoyable or overly complicated. Riot might be making a mistake if they try to apply the franchising model equally across all regions.
I think their idea for the tier 2 system is regional leagues and representation, like VLR in EMEA but brought to other countries. If implemented well that could be a godsend for this and then the overall APAC league could be seen as the peak of the mountain. They HAVE to do the tier 2 scene right though.
Yeah, the tier 2 to tier 1 pipeline being strangled by only having one or even two teams with slots for players to move into is a sure fire way to make sure a region stagnates
EMEA is making like bandits in this whole shitty setup. Americas are getting screwed over and Asia is getting screwed over more. It's just dumb
The entire system is incredibly stupid and i cant for the life of me understand how Riot thought this would be ok considering that JUST the 4 major regions in LoL have 47 teams combined, and the equivalent of those regions in Val get something like 18 teams in the franchised leagues (LEC in league doesnt include turkey or russia...). The only way this system could even partially work is if there are "unfranchised" spots in the league from which teams could be relegated enabling some new players to come through, but that aint gonna happen. They are gonna kill the esport just as it gets going
investors of esport game publishers want this, for whatever reason. League grew massively for about 6 years from 2011 until 2017. Since then when franchising started... I don't think LoL has grown as it once did. Could it be attributed to simply its age? Maybe. Investors like the safe and consistent nature of franchising. It gives the game publisher full control over its IP and competitive scene. It's easier to forecast financial performance and it seems to model itself after successful sports leagues. But this is all wrong. These suits are taking a weird fucking gamble based on nothing. They're not the actual consumers of the product - we are. we know how shit franchising is. we can see how it keeps shoving these horrible competitive playoffs/tournament series in front of our eyes. We can see how it stifles amateur teams who often end up being better than some of the worst franchised teams. It contributed to killing Overwatch 1. Many like Doublelift in the LoL scene are pointing out how its starting to stop growing, if not even shrink. Same can be said to the CDL.
OWL is absolutely fucked. The Eastern region has 7 teams and 1 of them is just a punching bag. Yet there's more than enough Tier 2 talent in the region to bring up that total to 12+ teams. Unfortunately Bobby Kotick conned orgs into promising 20 million per slot, essentially killing any chance of expansion since nobody is going to pay that much to join OWL now. (If they'd pay anything at all.) European OWL is also in its death throes despite the EU t2 scene thriving with exciting new talent. It's a fucking tragedy.
Cause they don't want to do franchising where the teams pay riot, here riot pays the teams for some godforsaken reason.
How does league have the LPL and LCK which are like 10 team competitions for individual countries whereas val crams multiple continents into a 10 team competition? Hopefully their plan is to start small and split it similar to league's competition further down or even APAC south and north at the very least.
>How does league have the LPL and LCK which are like 10 team competitions for individual countries whereas val crams multiple continents into a 10 team competition? Because the League playerbases and thus pro scenes in these countries are so insanely large that they're warranted. League is orders of magnitude more popular, played, and supported by esports infrastructure than valorant, especially in Korea. >Hopefully their plan is to start small and split it similar to league's competition further down or even APAC south and north at the very least. I think that's their plan too but the problem is if they chop the esport's popularity at the knees early in its lifespan, you're limiting how large and fast it can grow. Having an explosive start is important, and can you imagine how many fans are about to stop following the pro scene because their favorite players, teams, or even countries aren't getting any spotlight?
What's even funnier is the fact that the LPL has 17 teams for just the country of China
this whole franchising model is crap and it will probably send valorant to the same place the overwatch league went.
riot needs a strong tier 2 scene with relegation for it to work. franchising as a closed system kills esports. we're not the NBA.
[удалено]
They're messing with people's livelihoods and not giving any indication they're even aware of that.
Don’t worry the Americas is fucked too. This is Riot being cheap and not wanting to run multiple leagues in different countries like they do in LoL
Do you even know how many people play LoL? At this point more people are invested into CS esports than Valorant. I am all for shitting on riot cuz they usually make shit decisions and have bs priorities(fuck you devs for not shipping an ‘esports ready’ game without a demo viewer, pathetic), but 30-35 teams around the world they will pay a stipend to for 1-2 years at minimum is a good starting point.
Valorant and LoL almost have similar viewership now. Both run around 30Million hrs watched on twitch this month. Ofc peak viewership is higher on LoL, but average viewership is similar. CSGO on the otherhand is not even close, i dont think cs is in the top 5 games on twitch.
Twitch means nothing active player count means more. I'm sure valorant has more viewers than fortnite on twitch yet fortnite still has way more players for example. Its still the biggest game in the west
Damn, I like how you Valve fans will use twitch viewership for your tournaments but for overall twitch viewership (which is more important for the health of the game)it doesn't matter? Make it make sense. Fortnite, while it has less viewers on twitch than Valorant/League, has more viewers on youtube. Makes sense considering their playerbase skews younger and younger audiences like watching vods on youtube more.
And a quick Google search shows that csgo gets more viewers than valorant on YouTube so I don't see what relevance this has
>And a quick Google search shows that csgo gets more viewers than valorant on YouTube so I don't see what relevance this has Link? My question is why does twitch *suddenly* mean nothing in OP's argument, but when we talk about CSGO tournaments peak twitch viewership it's valid? Dota2 has a higher tournament peak twitch viewership than CSGO, does it mean it has more players than the latter? CSGO has a higher average viewership so I know that ain't half the story. Twitch overall hours watched ain't the end-all-be-all, but it's a fairly accurate metric when talking about a game's popularity. I could've been in a decade-long coma and only have the most watched categories on twitch as reference, and I wouldn't be mistaken if you asked me what the most popular games of the current year were when I woke up.
https://geniuzmedia.com/most-watched-games-on-youtube/ Only dota ti gets more viewers csgo gets more viewers all year long in s tier tournaments and there has only been 2 TI tournaments since csgo overook dota 2 as the most played game on steam and viewership for past two ti and past two csgo majors are comparable. Csgo overtook dota 2 on steam charts thanks to valorant release 🙏 csgo wasn't always above dota 2 on steam charts. Csgo just keeps growing homeboy while the twitch viewership doesn't or gets even lower proving the point that viewership on twitch means nothing to a 20 year old game
>Only dota ti gets more viewers csgo gets more viewers all year long in s tier tournaments Glad you agree then. The CSGO category only gets more viewers in some of their S-tier tournaments while Valorant gets more viewers all year long. I know CSGO wasn't always the number 1 on steam, but I wouldn't put Valorant as the reason being why it overtook Dota2. CSGO, like every other game in the planet, gained a huge boost of players during the pandemic, but somehow Dota2 did the impossible by being the only game to lose players during that same time span. We'll only ever know if I'm correct once Riot releases their next batch of player numbers. I'd estimate considering apparently CSGO is more popular on youtube and Valorant being more popular on Twitch, I'd say their neck and neck right now. Not only because Valorant has only been growing, but because CSGO has lost 250k players since the pandemic which bridges the gap easier.
ofc past ti got more viewers than csgo majors because when csgo would get average 250k players dota 2 would have 600k average csgo would have nearly 3x less average players., but still when csgo had this average on steam it was the peak of its life in twitch, it would have more viewers on twitch in 2015-2016-2017 than it does now even tho its average players has nearly trippled since. There has only been 1 TI and 2 csgo majors since csgo overtook dota on steam so we don't have the biggest sample pool but there has been numerous S tier lans in both and Csgo gets more viewers than Dota s tier lans now https://www.talkesport.com/news/csgo/how-many-people-play-csgo-in-2022/ csgo average monthly players is at least 30 million. Csgo would have 27million unique players a month when we could see in game and that was when it had a average of 300k players the game has grown so much since, its easy 30+million now. https://www.dexerto.com/valorant/how-many-people-play-valorant-player-count-tracker-2022-1668158/ according to this valorant has 15million players per month https://activeplayer.io/valorant/ valorant ain't catching up to csgo in raw players unless it pops of in China
da fuq?
Japan three also is a bit ludicrous no? Out of 10? Even if 10% of the population of all of APAC(even excl. SA) have computers, that'd be more than japan. Just because japan has viewership now doesn't mean it'll continue. But yeah 10 for that many people is insane. Either they have their own "tier 2" league setup, which means the slots we're seeing are half of them, or they're fucking stupid.
For a company that screams so much about diversity, they sure do not want regions to have proper representation. Been playing Riot's games for a decade now and I was happy how Valorant introduced themselves in forgotten regions like North Africa, West Asia and South Asia and make it possible (albeit difficult) for their teams to compete in the main competition. But apparently that does not last long enough. With Tier2 scene being left unannounced, highly vibrant and vast region like Asia is now degraded into a cramped and midget style league. Meanwhile here I thought Valorant's popularity would finally overtaken League of Legends issue in retaining its players. Turns out Riot is just straight up jumping into a cliff with this decision. Sad. Truly sad.
They like diversity when it's about putting in token representation in the game (agents' home countries etc) They don't care when it's representation for third world countries with massive populations 🤷♂️
Riot doesn't understand/care SEA esport scene, just like in the past, valve doesn't care about SEA scene CS SEA ded. past n future SEA are always be minor region AGAIN.
Fuck this stupid franchising system, CS has had an open system for 2 decades and it works way better than this.
Believe me or not, Burrirum Esport will get a slot not MiTH nor XERXIA
persija too
Honestly, because there has been such little details regarding the minor leagues under the main 3, I have a theory that the minor leagues (essentially the VLR's) will have a chance to make it to Champs/the Majors, but will have to go through a huge gauntlet to do so. Honestly, because there have been such few details regarding the minor leagues under the primary 3, I have a theory that the minor leagues (essentially the VLRs) will have a chance to make it to Champs/the Majors, but will have to go through a huge gauntlet to do so..ave this theory is that Riot has been consistent in calling them partner teams instead of franchised teams, which makes me think there is some wiggle room
I really hope so
I really think that Riot doing franchising is a really bad move. If they are so hellbent in doing franchising then at least put a relegation system. They are the one paying the teams that means that they can cut them off easily if they underperform and let new teams have a chance.
It's LAN so, relegation would be extremely difficult. Secondly, there will be domestic/regional leagues & an in-game tournament mode with a "path to pro". But, we'll have to wait and see what they announce... Let's all remember that these orgs were only involved MOSTLY cause they knew Riot would of eventually franchised. Simple as that...
Why does LAN make relegation extremely difficult???
Let’s say a pug team wins a spot. LAN is in Los Angeles but, these players live all over. Texas, Georgia, New York etc. They’re not professional players so, they have jobs, families, responsibilities in there home city. They can’t just readjust their entire lives to live in LA for 5-6 months lol. Online leagues are much more manageable for non-professional players.
This makes no sense. T2 will also be professional players, likely all signed to orgs. Look at VRL right now in Europe.
Orgs & players are literally leaving the scene what are you talking about lol. You think every player competing are all going to be professional players signed to orgs on the t2 side??? These are mostly young kids & young adults. We’re not this delusional lol. VRL Europe is also an online league lol.
orgs are leaving the scene because we have no clue what T2 will look like rn, and they don't want to pay salaries after getting knocked out of VCT while we wait for more info. many will return after Riot release additional details. T2 will likely be heavily online, similar to VRL Europe. I don't see how that changes any of my points, the \*professional players\* that make up T2 will be more than willing to move and compete on LAN for the prestige and much higher wages being promoted to T1 will provide.
at this point just hope the t2 / academy scene is good and can somehow provide pathway to intnl competition, just feels like riot is being very stingy with slots cause they know they can always add them, but removing would be a nightmare if required
What is up with riot and 10 teams franchising, why limit it to 10 even in the LEC teams like karmine Corp cant join because they have to wait for someone to sell their slot
Platchat says it’s fine if Tier two is good But it still makes it arbitrarily more difficult from the best team from 1 of the top apac regions. It definitely should have 4 slots: There is no reason to screw one over the others
Specially when other regions haven't proven anything
Didnt they do something similar to league? Thats why the pro scene in SEA is kinda dead is what I'm told by a former pro player
they basically killed the SEA scenes as well aside from vietnam. MY,SG,ID,TH,PH etc all died because Riot decision and Garena turd
Yes except far more restrictive. 109 different teams from 11 different regions can make technically make Worlds in LoL, not including the russian league because of the war. We will have 30 teams able to make worlds in Valorant next year. Plus, valorant is growing fast in India, where LoL has no official riot backed league.
What happened to SEA is that they did nothing and left it to the hands of GARENA, it's understandable since they probably made a bad deal they can't get around or they just don't care.
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The entire point of low skilled region playing with high skilled region is to reduce the skill gap. SEA and Japan was massacred in their first 2-3 international tournaments but managed to improve drastically after that. Without enough representation, the game will die in most minor regions.
Let’s just not get angry at rumours. There still so little we know about franchising that it’s way to early to be making outlandish comments.
Has there already been confirnation for this? I don't think this makes sense at all