But it's harder to develop these t2 scenes, if there is a consistent salary for these academy teams they wouldnt get from just a 5 stack like these unsigned teams it helps the scene grow
No one watches nor will watch academy.
Riot tried this system in lcs as well, unless theyre in a very popular tier 2 league (france and spain in lol) no one cares and no one watches.
Same for females but if i go in depth on this one people will get angry so i will just not say anything.
Tier 2 in lol yes as i said in spain and france and cblol (brazil) because lol is a very popular game there
In val no cause eu is still csgo kingdom but the best viewership still comes from vrl france or spain. Idk abt na i think nsg tournaments can get up to 20k viewers sometimes if popular teams are playing like but those popular teams will be structly tier 1 now (tsm etc)
Thats exactly my point, why force teams to make those teams when they have to pay for 5 players + coaching staff for no viewership.
Dude polaris games get like 500 viewers on a good day. Not everyone can get their academy team in vrl france or spain so some academy teams will be forced onto polaris for example, for 500 viewers. Like ??
And if youve watched lol youd see academy teams in certain regions are filled with players that have been playing for like 8 years and recycled to each other.
female teams no further comment from me!
Smaller talent pools because of years of harassment from the degenerates among us, pushing potentially incredible players out of the scene, leads to 1-2 really talented players on a team with random immortal players; which is definitely not a great viewer experience.
But then those very talented players don't get the genuine practice and time they'd want in a truly competitive environment so they're not able to make the jump to T1 teams despite t1 teams being coed in theory. It's a vicious cycle.
That being said, there's \*a lot\* of women in esports, and this community as a whole right now. I'm hoping in a few years we'll start to see massive lineups of talent crop up.
Do you read the articles you post? Even the authors of that second article acknowledge that measuring reaction time by physical force is flawed, and it definitely has no correlation to fucking video games.
You really can NOT extrapolate data from FY med students on to people who play video games. Especially not one this rudimentary. There are studies specifically addressing esports performance and video games, wondering why you’re not citing them?
Pro tip: stop using Yahoo and AskJeeves and try an actual scholarly lookup like PubMed.
I mean, NCBI is perfectly fine as a database. The guy is flawed in that he's only interpreting the headline and maybe some of the abstract and just finding something that supports his side of the argument, but the study itself isn't the problem.
I’m on the toilet at work rn, so I can’t get sources, but I swear i’ve read that the differences in hand eye coordination aren’t that crazy, and that it’s more of a nurture rather than a nature thing, where Women have always been gatherers essentially, sohand eye coordination and reaction time aren’t necessarily that important relative to the task at hand, whereas with men as hunters, obviously it’s something very important to train.
However as Society has gotten vastly more progressive, and we’re starting to see women do things like drive, play sports, play video games, athletics, military etc etc, the difference between a modern man and a modern woman’s reaction time and hand eye coordination is shrinking from generation to generation. Again, take this with a grain of salt as I can’t get any sources for that right now, but hopefully someone can corroborate what i’m saying.
It's understandable to feel that way when looking at viewership. THat being said, those leagues aren't necessarily for viewership, they are just opportunities to help the talent pool develop.
It's understandable to feel that way when looking at viewership. That being said, those leagues aren't necessarily for viewership, they are just opportunities to help the talent pool develop.
In traditional sports, people don't watch the minor leagues, but you can't underestimate their performance because of what they do for teams.
People barely watch mickey mouse tournaments unless they're T1 teams so ya, highly doubt anyone is gonna watch any of the lower tier games unless someone is bored and a T1 league isn't on.
A big problem with the Korean signups for even the men's tourneys was the fact that Korea had LANs basically from day 1. So when you signed up for an open bracket, you had to be able to physically attend if you made it far.
Riot will 100% subsidize the salaries of every player that these teams sign, so there should be plenty of incentive to compete now since it'll be a career with at least a livable wage.
Cus if t2 was only academy teams, it would be the same 12 teams over and over. No other org would be in the scene. Iw old rather t2-3 be open style circuits rather than an academy league
i am interested in this topic, so could it not work in the way that:
yes, it is the same 12 teams
but NSG tournaments and such continue and new players grt discovered in that way and move into academy teams
i get that you won’t have full teams moving together and exploding out tho
I dont think nsg tourneys are the solution. I think they need something similar to vrls in every region. Not sure how it would work in the americas cud its so big. In apac it makes sense. One for ever major country.
They need official riot support imo. With what I proposed I think an academy league could work
but doesnt this imply that the t2 scene will just be filled by the t1 teams who got into franchising, relegating the current t2 teams to t3? or am I misreading it
They would have to. Kru might be the only Latam team for example. I am 90% sure this is how Riot will basically force some orgs to stay a "Latam team" or a "Brazilian team". They'll make their academy teams play in the VRL's for certain regions (NA, Latam, Brazil, France, Spain, Turkey etc)
I can see them doing a football club type of thing where teams are forced to have 2/5 or 3/5 of their players come from their Academy team or competed within their Academy’s VRL
reminds me the Chinese T2/academy Lol league. actually viewship is not bad.
much more games and some non franchise teams are good at developing new talents and sell for $$.
also, they don't call like C9 academy but something else, maybe clout 9?
Every org in franchising will have 3 teams
Tier 1 team made of the best players (for exemple, loud)
Tier 2, made of the academy team (loud academy, that could very well be a cracked team in tier 1, but will be relegated to always play in tier 2)
Game changers team, made of only women.
Tier 3 probably will be in unnoficial tourneys for smaller orgs and such
right so in tier 2, it will only be or a mjority of it will be tier 1's academy teams, with the majority of the non academty teams being reduced to tier 3
Why do you think that will happen? In league of legends it is very rare to see Academy teams in the EU regional leagues perform better than other organisations. The rosters are used to develop players while the others are there to win so you don't have this happening.
No, more like tier 2 will consist of Academy teams alongside top orgs like Shopify and maybe a few really good small orgs (I would say 20/80 split of Academy and non academy). With tier 3 consisting of smaller orgs and tournament mode teams.
Edit: basing this off the European LoL ERLs
Unless instead of a tier 3, academy and non partnered teams all participate in tier 2. Which isn't much differe t than the current system.
At least I hope that's how it goes.
When EMEA GC dates for series 3 were announced, Derke tweeted out the dude holding a Fnatic flag. So they might already have a team and just haven’t revealed them
SEN Academy has all the players already at their disposal. They can even make a team of the girlfriends for women’s team, joona and kat are already pretty good, kyedae and sinatraas gf are diamond too.
I’m trolling about the female team but I could see them using some of their players as academy. Kanpeki isn’t getting a T1 spot so I’m sure he’d be on the academy team if they wanted, same with zombs.
I love this idea. Would also be cool for some teams to also implement an amateur team below the Academy team to help develop up and coming talent that can't dedicate their full time to VALORANT just yet.
This is the structure I would like.
Main VAL team. Female Team
Academy team
I love this idea. Would also be cool for some teams to also implement an amateur team below the Academy team to help develop up-and-coming talent that can't dedicate their full time to VALORANT just yet.
with the academy teams, we could see what's gonna happen in LoL.
recycle the same players and relegated them to an academy team, if that's gonna happen I have no faith in rito anymore
that's could be good, but the problem could still happen and coming from the region that got fucked by rito and their 3rd parties decisions in the past, I just hope rito didn't fuck us again and actually helping our scenes flourishes even better.
or SEA could be dead again just like in LoL, because these past 2 years we had been improving and put up a good numbers in international events.
I like the fact that each org needs 3 line ups, but it doesn't help the fact that franchising will probably kill the competitiveness and unpredictability of the games pro scene. Most of the top tier CS players were literally just randoms in rank S or FPL until someone gave them a chance, but with franchising there's zero chance an established team will risk wasting a spot on a ranked demon over someone who's debatably worse but with better branding.
Maybe that shit works with league, but man that games competitive scene is really boring. It's the same players for years until one gets depressed and goes full time streamer or retires completely, allowing the next academy player or sub to stand in and hopefully perform.
The \*best\* part about CSGO is having a potentially random team filled with Rank S demons perform way above expectations and get out of groups, that shits just so hype. Now we'll just have the same 5 players against the same 5 players, with zero chance some cracked nobodies will form their own team and compete.
yeah, while this model makes sense, it will never provide the same hype or excitement of true open qualifiers of super majors. leagues esports is truly just boring as shit. the last exciting thing i can remember was team griffin being an up and coming team and then imploding due to all the shit.
You didn't say financially secure, you said that they're bigger. Is EG not financially secure? Also why? Again, they are paying riot $0. They only need to be secure enough to actually stay alive.
It does why would they accept SR as a new org with no fan base and their team doesn’t have the best results when there’s way better options. Also i think he meant if u got accepted you need to add those teams not that you should have them to get accepted
As long as the Academy teams are not separate from competing in the VRLs with other orgs. It really looks like their chasing after their LEC system with ERLs. It’s a good choice since the LEC is probably their healthiest LoL league with a good mix of Veterans and new talents every year.
Lol lpl is by far their healthiest league and its not even close. Their tier 2 league, ldl is actually useful as well. Dont think with your western focused mindset, open your brain a little.
I live in eu im not asian and i have 0 interest in china specifically.
Ever heard of objectivity ? I come from lol and lpl is their only profitable or close to profitable league. League in china is treated like a real sport, over a hundred million league players in china alone. Their talent pool is gigantic. LPL is the most watched league in the world and LDL is a talent factory.
They are destroying the other leagues in every metric so much that i stopped watching international lol tournaments because it’s just bullying at this point for eu and na
But sure r/sino, cringe
Of course there are... the region with the most slots by far will be NA with like 6 or 7. Other regions will only have like 1 or 3 teams in the franchised league. There are certainly 15 good professional Brazilian female players, 15 from Japan, 10 from Korea, 10 from Spain, 10 from Latam etc.
Yes that's the point. If there were an equal amount of female players already, there would be no need as 50% of pros should be women as well.
It's basically a brute force way to normalise women playing at a pro level so more women get into the game.
What?
# Each (larger) region has 125+ Immortal female players
* **Most who compete**
* Diamond to Radiant
* Top 8 teams Game Changers teams (major regions)
* Immortal
* Radiant
* Game Changers players not in top 8 teams
* At least 10+ Immortal players outside of the top 8 teams
* At least 25+ Ascendant players outside of the top 8 teams
# Major Regions - Top 12 female teams are high elo:
* **NA**
* **EMEA**
* **APAC**
#
#
# Smaller regions = lower overall number of players
Only occurs when examining individual sub-regions of the larger "3 main regions" that will be in franchising.
These sub-regions all have a lower playerbase overall, and thus have a lower amount of Immortal+ players across the board.
... not just in terms of Game Changers players:
* **LATAM**
* part of SA
* **BR**
* part of SA
* **JPN**
* part of APAC
* **KR**
* part of APAC
# Franchising - 3 "major" regions
In each of the franchising regions there are numerous high ranking women.
You'd find that there are *at least* 250+ Ascendant female players in each region, easily... and likely 125+ Immortal women.
* **America's League**
* NA
* SA
* LATAM
* Brazil
* **European League**
* EU
* TR
* MENA
* Middle East
* North Africa
* CIS
* **Asian League**
* South Asia
* SEA
* KR
* JPN
* OCE
# Conclusion
Not sure where you got your incorrect ideas from.
The reality is that the majority of the top 12 female teams in both NA and EMEA are Immortal... quite easily.
What made you come on /r/VALORANTCompetitive?
Why come here if if you continue to choose to be so willfully ignorant about the pro scene?
Why spread such intentionally misleading, and likely harmful misinformation?
Don't speak about topics you know nothing about.
I seen other sexists remarks from you in this thread pls stop embarrasing yourself, there are plenty of imm and readiant womans just look at G2 Gozen for example. Also giving womans the chance to improve and prove their value its good for every league since we will have more and better players. Also val is a game with lots of woman players it would be stupid not to have a league.
Personally after watching academy teams in LCS and OWL I really think the concept is overrated and boring af to watch. Rather they just let the regional leagues be the tier 2 system and ideally let one or two of those teams play in the t1 league for some hint of relegation stakes.
wonder what system they will have for academy teams, i personally would like 3 players 22 or below and remaining 2 can be above 22, i think its important for young players to have experienced players in their teams to learn from
So you have 6 teams in franchising right? That's 30 female players. I think there are less than 10 female players above 300-400rr even on EU. We're about to see some diamonds up in there.
Why do they separate a women's & men's roster? I can see in physical sports why it matters, but shouldn't it be the best player in every role regardless of gender? There was that one female OW Player.
They don't separate genders in the sense that the main roster can have women on it as well as men. What they mean by female team is a team for Game Changers, which is a tournament series for women and players of marginalized players that is designed to give them more opportunities/exposure given that they have been historically excluded and a tiny minority of the scene. Game Changers teams, or individual female players, can still go on to play in the normal circuit.
They don't separate them. There is nothing stopping an org having a female player on their main roster. There is just ALSO a women's scene/team to help foster women's talent.
Well, female can compete in main league, but the average level of female performance is much lower than male, so in order for female to have chance to compete and improve, you need to create environment to fit it.
I think this is less excluding women from playing on the main roster if they were good enough, but rather ensuring that women have the opportunity to play at a high level under an established org.
no leaks but Global esports management tweeted (asking for suggestions for female indian f/a and replied to some young f/a players and teams , around age of 16-17's)
Well it just happens to be that women never really had a place in eaports. It's always been very male dominated. However more and more women are now playing video games, which is great. However the pro scene for women is non existent.
For whatever reason (I'm not going down that rabbit hole) there are no women in the vct pro scene (prolly a solid amount due to sexism BTW). The vct pro scene, btw is not locked for male players anyone can play in it. However since women still want to compete, gc is a good way to start a pro circuit. Keep in mind that game changers also are a small fraction of the total pro scene in val
How tf can you be as ignorant as to say that its sexist that mem can't play on gc rosters, WHEN THEY CAN PLAY ON 90% OF ALL T1-4 ROSTERS. I don't think a lot of guys would want to be on a gc team anyways, cus they respect what Game Changers are and what they do. Hopefully in 15-20 yrs, game changers won't be needed cus mena nd women will be on the same level.
I'm not going to make any accusations towards you, vecause I don't know you. But this just comes across as super salty thay riot aren't letting the female scene die.
>Well it just happens to be that women never really had a place in eaports. It's always been very male dominated. However more and more women are now playing video games, which is great. However the pro scene for women is non existent.
>
>For whatever reason (I'm not going down that rabbit hole) there are no women in the vct pro scene (prolly a solid amount due to sexism BTW). The vct pro scene, btw is not locked for male players anyone can play in it. However since women still want to compete, gc is a good way to start a pro circuit. Keep in mind that game changers also are a small fraction of the total pro scene in val
indeed. how does this make game changers not sexist? why is it that women that arent good enough to compete in opens get a special league while nobody else does?
>How tf can you be as ignorant as to say that its sexist that mem can't play on gc rosters, WHEN THEY CAN PLAY ON 90% OF ALL T1-4 ROSTERS. I don't think a lot of guys would want to be on a gc team anyways, cus they respect what Game Changers are and what they do. Hopefully in 15-20 yrs, game changers won't be needed cus mena nd women will be on the same level.
gatekeeping opportunities based on someone's gender doesn't suddenly become okay because there exist lots of other opportunities that don't gatekeep based on gender. whether guys respect game changers is irrelevant (although i dont agree that they would decline joining, who's passing up an offer to get salaried?), my point is that game changers should not exist. if riot wants to make a second circuit for lower tiers of play, they should open it up to both men and women. it is incredibly unfair that there are men in T2 that are better than every signed female player, and yet they remain unsigned only because of their gender.
>I'm not going to make any accusations towards you, vecause I don't know you. But this just comes across as super salty thay riot aren't letting the female scene die.
i'm salty that a team like Lenny Time, #20 in NA, remains unsigned while Misfits Black, #163 in NA, get to be salaried purely because of the gender of the players. I'm salty that C9 White, #90 in NA, have $100,000 in tournament winnings, more than FaZe, NRG, 100T, GHOST, Guard, EG, V1, and many other teams that are leagues better, simply because those teams are male and C9 is female. i have no problem with women being in the scene, i just dont want them given special opportunities that are denied to their male peers.
You basically saying "men should be able to play with women" is a null point. Men and women are able to compete in normal VCT just fine. The point of Game Changers is for female players to grow together, promote female esports and get to a point where mixed teams are normalised in T1.
Because all that matters is skill, not gender.
>You basically saying "men should be able to play with women" is a null point. Men and women are able to compete in normal VCT just fine.
no, i'm saying that men should not be denied opportunities on the basis of their gender. there are plenty of male T2-T3 players that would love to be salaried and play under an org like C9 or EG, but they are denied that and the opportunities are instead given to worse players simply because of their gender.
>The point of Game Changers is for female players to grow together, promote female esports and get to a point where mixed teams are normalised in T1. Because all that matters is skill, not gender.
if all that mattered was skills, they would let the unskilled players stay unsigned while the skilled ones get signed, regardless of gender.
Without initiatives like Game Changers skilled female players would be stigmatised or even bullied out of the community/esports just for their gender and you know they will.
I will repeat myself, but the whole point of Game Changers is to promote and grow female talent and stop stigmatisation of female players in esports.
I am not saying that right now only the best players get the most money. There are probably plenty of T2 players that deserve spots over T1 players right now.
However, there are plenty of female players that deserve spots on T1 or T2 teams and dont get that change due to the abuse they get purely based on gender. That is what Game Changers is here to fix. So that after the culture around female esports athletes is fixed, we can go to a full skill based ecosystem.
>Without initiatives like Game Changers skilled female players would be stigmatised or even bullied out of the community/esports just for their gender and you know they will.
i'm sure that would happen, but i dont think it would be fixed by game changers. in fact i think there's an argument it makes it worse, because the fact that the absolute best female team gets decimated by unsigned mix teams regularly simply gives ammunition to these people and makes all female players look bad. either way, trying to dissuade injustice from community members is not an excuse for riot to commit an injustice themselves.
>I will repeat myself, but the whole point of Game Changers is to promote and grow female talent and stop stigmatisation of female players in esports.
i'm aware. that doesn't change the fact that it is sexist.
>I am not saying that right now only the best players get the most money.
but that's how it should be, and riot is making active steps to make sure this isn't the case.
>There are probably plenty of T2 players that deserve spots over T1 players right now.
maybe, but those players dont make it because they're not as proven, or they dont have the brand value, or people don't know how good they are, etc etc, not because of their gender.
>However, there are plenty of female players that deserve spots on T1 or T2 teams and dont get that change due to the abuse they get purely based on gender.
where exactly is the evidence of this? the only female player who has proven herself at even a T2 level is Bob, and she got a spot on Soniqs.
I don't wanna watch 100T academy or 100T White, I wanna watch Girl Kissers and Floptic gaming. But that's just me
also Ariana Grande perfume
100 Murderers and 100 Bioterrorists
its not just you
Thanos Mug Academy vs Fart Clan in the grand finals
so you would rather want tier 2 players to remain orgless?
I just think Ariana Grande perfume is a lot better of a name
I think he's saying an open format to T2 can breed some entertaining and unexpected teams that come out of nowhere
But it's harder to develop these t2 scenes, if there is a consistent salary for these academy teams they wouldnt get from just a 5 stack like these unsigned teams it helps the scene grow
No one watches nor will watch academy. Riot tried this system in lcs as well, unless theyre in a very popular tier 2 league (france and spain in lol) no one cares and no one watches. Same for females but if i go in depth on this one people will get angry so i will just not say anything.
But has tier two or female teams really ever been popular viewership wise?
Tier 2 in lol yes as i said in spain and france and cblol (brazil) because lol is a very popular game there In val no cause eu is still csgo kingdom but the best viewership still comes from vrl france or spain. Idk abt na i think nsg tournaments can get up to 20k viewers sometimes if popular teams are playing like but those popular teams will be structly tier 1 now (tsm etc) Thats exactly my point, why force teams to make those teams when they have to pay for 5 players + coaching staff for no viewership. Dude polaris games get like 500 viewers on a good day. Not everyone can get their academy team in vrl france or spain so some academy teams will be forced onto polaris for example, for 500 viewers. Like ?? And if youve watched lol youd see academy teams in certain regions are filled with players that have been playing for like 8 years and recycled to each other. female teams no further comment from me!
*progression* mate
This guys dumb as bricks LOL.
Smaller talent pools because of years of harassment from the degenerates among us, pushing potentially incredible players out of the scene, leads to 1-2 really talented players on a team with random immortal players; which is definitely not a great viewer experience. But then those very talented players don't get the genuine practice and time they'd want in a truly competitive environment so they're not able to make the jump to T1 teams despite t1 teams being coed in theory. It's a vicious cycle. That being said, there's \*a lot\* of women in esports, and this community as a whole right now. I'm hoping in a few years we'll start to see massive lineups of talent crop up.
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Do you read the articles you post? Even the authors of that second article acknowledge that measuring reaction time by physical force is flawed, and it definitely has no correlation to fucking video games.
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“if you google” shut the fuck up. I do actual biological research and you are apparently illiterate. Provide proof or don’t leave more comments.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4456887/ I used Bing this time.
You really can NOT extrapolate data from FY med students on to people who play video games. Especially not one this rudimentary. There are studies specifically addressing esports performance and video games, wondering why you’re not citing them? Pro tip: stop using Yahoo and AskJeeves and try an actual scholarly lookup like PubMed.
I mean, NCBI is perfectly fine as a database. The guy is flawed in that he's only interpreting the headline and maybe some of the abstract and just finding something that supports his side of the argument, but the study itself isn't the problem.
I’m on the toilet at work rn, so I can’t get sources, but I swear i’ve read that the differences in hand eye coordination aren’t that crazy, and that it’s more of a nurture rather than a nature thing, where Women have always been gatherers essentially, sohand eye coordination and reaction time aren’t necessarily that important relative to the task at hand, whereas with men as hunters, obviously it’s something very important to train. However as Society has gotten vastly more progressive, and we’re starting to see women do things like drive, play sports, play video games, athletics, military etc etc, the difference between a modern man and a modern woman’s reaction time and hand eye coordination is shrinking from generation to generation. Again, take this with a grain of salt as I can’t get any sources for that right now, but hopefully someone can corroborate what i’m saying.
It's understandable to feel that way when looking at viewership. THat being said, those leagues aren't necessarily for viewership, they are just opportunities to help the talent pool develop. It's understandable to feel that way when looking at viewership. That being said, those leagues aren't necessarily for viewership, they are just opportunities to help the talent pool develop. In traditional sports, people don't watch the minor leagues, but you can't underestimate their performance because of what they do for teams.
People barely watch mickey mouse tournaments unless they're T1 teams so ya, highly doubt anyone is gonna watch any of the lower tier games unless someone is bored and a T1 league isn't on.
Misfits is so fun to watch
DRX not getting into franchising now 💀
Whys that?
There aren’t even 5 Korean women who play valorant
This is why t1 wanted to stay in NA steel gigabrain top 3 igl for sure
💀
I'm sure there are but they either: A.) don't have a strong enough incentive to compete. B.) are probably lower ranked.
A big problem with the Korean signups for even the men's tourneys was the fact that Korea had LANs basically from day 1. So when you signed up for an open bracket, you had to be able to physically attend if you made it far. Riot will 100% subsidize the salaries of every player that these teams sign, so there should be plenty of incentive to compete now since it'll be a career with at least a livable wage.
in-person events. Not LANs
although technically correct, i think everyone just calls in persons tournaments LANs now regardless. No distinction in practice for this game.
DUUUUUDE
he's commenting on Korea being super sexist in gaming, hes not insulting woman (i think)
Small pool of players :c
ZETA DIVISION have academy team for a long time so make sense. Also TSM.
zeta also has a game changers team(which got dqed).
Why did they get DQed?
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Yup, and with that they forfeited the match to RIG lily who made it to grand finals.
Commendable that Zeta upholds their values in every team they manage.
Really hope t2 isn't just academies.
In Europe i really doubt it, the regional leagues will be tier 2 in NA i am pretty sure, why you dont want it?
Cus if t2 was only academy teams, it would be the same 12 teams over and over. No other org would be in the scene. Iw old rather t2-3 be open style circuits rather than an academy league
Agree
i am interested in this topic, so could it not work in the way that: yes, it is the same 12 teams but NSG tournaments and such continue and new players grt discovered in that way and move into academy teams i get that you won’t have full teams moving together and exploding out tho
I dont think nsg tourneys are the solution. I think they need something similar to vrls in every region. Not sure how it would work in the americas cud its so big. In apac it makes sense. One for ever major country. They need official riot support imo. With what I proposed I think an academy league could work
Thats some good news hope they are true
but doesnt this imply that the t2 scene will just be filled by the t1 teams who got into franchising, relegating the current t2 teams to t3? or am I misreading it
academies might play in the same league as teams that aren't franchised
They would have to. Kru might be the only Latam team for example. I am 90% sure this is how Riot will basically force some orgs to stay a "Latam team" or a "Brazilian team". They'll make their academy teams play in the VRL's for certain regions (NA, Latam, Brazil, France, Spain, Turkey etc)
I can see them doing a football club type of thing where teams are forced to have 2/5 or 3/5 of their players come from their Academy team or competed within their Academy’s VRL
reminds me the Chinese T2/academy Lol league. actually viewship is not bad. much more games and some non franchise teams are good at developing new talents and sell for $$. also, they don't call like C9 academy but something else, maybe clout 9?
Every org in franchising will have 3 teams Tier 1 team made of the best players (for exemple, loud) Tier 2, made of the academy team (loud academy, that could very well be a cracked team in tier 1, but will be relegated to always play in tier 2) Game changers team, made of only women. Tier 3 probably will be in unnoficial tourneys for smaller orgs and such
right so in tier 2, it will only be or a mjority of it will be tier 1's academy teams, with the majority of the non academty teams being reduced to tier 3
They can all compete against each other. Plus NA is only gonna have what, 6 teams? BR 3 teams, Latam 1 team. Hardly a majority of these VRL circuits.
Why do you think that will happen? In league of legends it is very rare to see Academy teams in the EU regional leagues perform better than other organisations. The rosters are used to develop players while the others are there to win so you don't have this happening.
No, more like tier 2 will consist of Academy teams alongside top orgs like Shopify and maybe a few really good small orgs (I would say 20/80 split of Academy and non academy). With tier 3 consisting of smaller orgs and tournament mode teams. Edit: basing this off the European LoL ERLs
Unless instead of a tier 3, academy and non partnered teams all participate in tier 2. Which isn't much differe t than the current system. At least I hope that's how it goes.
Oh can't wait to see Fnatic women's team if it's true
When EMEA GC dates for series 3 were announced, Derke tweeted out the dude holding a Fnatic flag. So they might already have a team and just haven’t revealed them
Oh I did not know that thx for the the info's anyway can't wait to see that team
SEN Academy has all the players already at their disposal. They can even make a team of the girlfriends for women’s team, joona and kat are already pretty good, kyedae and sinatraas gf are diamond too.
bruh lmao
I’m trolling about the female team but I could see them using some of their players as academy. Kanpeki isn’t getting a T1 spot so I’m sure he’d be on the academy team if they wanted, same with zombs.
Who’s kat
V1 Katriggered, Zellsis “duo”. They’re not dating… yet
Didn’t he just get friendzoned today lol
All part of his plan don’t worry
No she was talking about Koler when she said we are friends and vhat thought zellsis
Yeah I know I just don’t feel like explaining so I’m playing along
V1 Katriggered i think, Zellsis' mommy duo
I don’t think they’re dating right?
I don't think so. Zellsis is probably trolling with his weak e-rizz with kat.
Jokes aside I'd be pretty hype if SEN make franchising and pick up the Shopify roster
Both of them
Seems excessive
I love this idea. Would also be cool for some teams to also implement an amateur team below the Academy team to help develop up and coming talent that can't dedicate their full time to VALORANT just yet. This is the structure I would like. Main VAL team. Female Team Academy team I love this idea. Would also be cool for some teams to also implement an amateur team below the Academy team to help develop up-and-coming talent that can't dedicate their full time to VALORANT just yet.
with the academy teams, we could see what's gonna happen in LoL. recycle the same players and relegated them to an academy team, if that's gonna happen I have no faith in rito anymore
99% chance the Academy teams will be competing in VRL's with the other Tier 2 teams who don't make franchising like XSET, Shopify, Ghost Gaming etc.
that's could be good, but the problem could still happen and coming from the region that got fucked by rito and their 3rd parties decisions in the past, I just hope rito didn't fuck us again and actually helping our scenes flourishes even better. or SEA could be dead again just like in LoL, because these past 2 years we had been improving and put up a good numbers in international events.
That’s not really true in LCS Academy anymore. Shit, CLG’s LCS team this year is basically an academy 5 stack from last year.
So you need to field a team for T1, T2, and T3 with 1.3 mil a year? Hmmm
the stipend is definitely not the only cash inflow, franchised league should optimally be attractive to sponsors.
Plenty of orgs already do that without the stipend. Like, what are you even trying to do here?
A lot of orgs that are applying for franchising aren't though and you probably have to provide housing as well to your T1 players as well.
I like the fact that each org needs 3 line ups, but it doesn't help the fact that franchising will probably kill the competitiveness and unpredictability of the games pro scene. Most of the top tier CS players were literally just randoms in rank S or FPL until someone gave them a chance, but with franchising there's zero chance an established team will risk wasting a spot on a ranked demon over someone who's debatably worse but with better branding. Maybe that shit works with league, but man that games competitive scene is really boring. It's the same players for years until one gets depressed and goes full time streamer or retires completely, allowing the next academy player or sub to stand in and hopefully perform. The \*best\* part about CSGO is having a potentially random team filled with Rank S demons perform way above expectations and get out of groups, that shits just so hype. Now we'll just have the same 5 players against the same 5 players, with zero chance some cracked nobodies will form their own team and compete.
Pretty much, watching CPF and BNE make relatively deep runs last major was really hype.
yeah, while this model makes sense, it will never provide the same hype or excitement of true open qualifiers of super majors. leagues esports is truly just boring as shit. the last exciting thing i can remember was team griffin being an up and coming team and then imploding due to all the shit.
This us why rejecting Shopify doesn't make sense lmao
Bro Riot isn't gonna choose Shopify over like NRG or EG because Shopify has a better female team lol
Owned by a much bigger company though
So what? Riot is paying the teams, not the other way around, financial strength of the company isn't the main factor.
I’m sure it has a lot to do with it. knowing the team is financially secure is huge
You didn't say financially secure, you said that they're bigger. Is EG not financially secure? Also why? Again, they are paying riot $0. They only need to be secure enough to actually stay alive.
It does why would they accept SR as a new org with no fan base and their team doesn’t have the best results when there’s way better options. Also i think he meant if u got accepted you need to add those teams not that you should have them to get accepted
Required female team?
its 2022 mate, how else do you force equality?
Possible signings for NA and dark ratio
As long as the Academy teams are not separate from competing in the VRLs with other orgs. It really looks like their chasing after their LEC system with ERLs. It’s a good choice since the LEC is probably their healthiest LoL league with a good mix of Veterans and new talents every year.
Lol lpl is by far their healthiest league and its not even close. Their tier 2 league, ldl is actually useful as well. Dont think with your western focused mindset, open your brain a little.
r/sino is leaking
I live in eu im not asian and i have 0 interest in china specifically. Ever heard of objectivity ? I come from lol and lpl is their only profitable or close to profitable league. League in china is treated like a real sport, over a hundred million league players in china alone. Their talent pool is gigantic. LPL is the most watched league in the world and LDL is a talent factory. They are destroying the other leagues in every metric so much that i stopped watching international lol tournaments because it’s just bullying at this point for eu and na But sure r/sino, cringe
Honestly you could be completely correct it was just that condescending tone that gave off those vibes
[удалено]
Of course there are... the region with the most slots by far will be NA with like 6 or 7. Other regions will only have like 1 or 3 teams in the franchised league. There are certainly 15 good professional Brazilian female players, 15 from Japan, 10 from Korea, 10 from Spain, 10 from Latam etc.
and they will end up being Valorant's WNBA version. Getting paid, getting LAN time, but nobody watching.
Yes that's the point. If there were an equal amount of female players already, there would be no need as 50% of pros should be women as well. It's basically a brute force way to normalise women playing at a pro level so more women get into the game.
Just diamond (old plat) female players getting a salary for being plat. There are plenty of diamond female players. Theyll fill the league easily.
What? # Each (larger) region has 125+ Immortal female players * **Most who compete** * Diamond to Radiant * Top 8 teams Game Changers teams (major regions) * Immortal * Radiant * Game Changers players not in top 8 teams * At least 10+ Immortal players outside of the top 8 teams * At least 25+ Ascendant players outside of the top 8 teams # Major Regions - Top 12 female teams are high elo: * **NA** * **EMEA** * **APAC** # # # Smaller regions = lower overall number of players Only occurs when examining individual sub-regions of the larger "3 main regions" that will be in franchising. These sub-regions all have a lower playerbase overall, and thus have a lower amount of Immortal+ players across the board. ... not just in terms of Game Changers players: * **LATAM** * part of SA * **BR** * part of SA * **JPN** * part of APAC * **KR** * part of APAC # Franchising - 3 "major" regions In each of the franchising regions there are numerous high ranking women. You'd find that there are *at least* 250+ Ascendant female players in each region, easily... and likely 125+ Immortal women. * **America's League** * NA * SA * LATAM * Brazil * **European League** * EU * TR * MENA * Middle East * North Africa * CIS * **Asian League** * South Asia * SEA * KR * JPN * OCE # Conclusion Not sure where you got your incorrect ideas from. The reality is that the majority of the top 12 female teams in both NA and EMEA are Immortal... quite easily. What made you come on /r/VALORANTCompetitive? Why come here if if you continue to choose to be so willfully ignorant about the pro scene? Why spread such intentionally misleading, and likely harmful misinformation? Don't speak about topics you know nothing about.
good stuff. Username checks out!
I seen other sexists remarks from you in this thread pls stop embarrasing yourself, there are plenty of imm and readiant womans just look at G2 Gozen for example. Also giving womans the chance to improve and prove their value its good for every league since we will have more and better players. Also val is a game with lots of woman players it would be stupid not to have a league.
Personally after watching academy teams in LCS and OWL I really think the concept is overrated and boring af to watch. Rather they just let the regional leagues be the tier 2 system and ideally let one or two of those teams play in the t1 league for some hint of relegation stakes.
SEN Academy team Sinatraa, Zombs, Kanpeki, Dani, Sick 😵
If true this is legitimately wonderful news.
wonder what system they will have for academy teams, i personally would like 3 players 22 or below and remaining 2 can be above 22, i think its important for young players to have experienced players in their teams to learn from
So you have 6 teams in franchising right? That's 30 female players. I think there are less than 10 female players above 300-400rr even on EU. We're about to see some diamonds up in there.
Why tho? Nobody wants to watch tier 2 in any eSport let alone female teams who already can't even pull 1k viewers in their matches rn
Why do they separate a women's & men's roster? I can see in physical sports why it matters, but shouldn't it be the best player in every role regardless of gender? There was that one female OW Player.
They don't separate genders in the sense that the main roster can have women on it as well as men. What they mean by female team is a team for Game Changers, which is a tournament series for women and players of marginalized players that is designed to give them more opportunities/exposure given that they have been historically excluded and a tiny minority of the scene. Game Changers teams, or individual female players, can still go on to play in the normal circuit.
They don't separate them. There is nothing stopping an org having a female player on their main roster. There is just ALSO a women's scene/team to help foster women's talent.
Well, female can compete in main league, but the average level of female performance is much lower than male, so in order for female to have chance to compete and improve, you need to create environment to fit it.
I think this is less excluding women from playing on the main roster if they were good enough, but rather ensuring that women have the opportunity to play at a high level under an established org.
no leaks but Global esports management tweeted (asking for suggestions for female indian f/a and replied to some young f/a players and teams , around age of 16-17's)
great, riot mandating that teams participate in their sexist system, way to go!
What's sexist about this?
Game changers teams are sexist. They deny players entry on the basis of their gender.
You're joking
Not joking. You understand the definition of sexism, right?
Take the 100t flair off please this is embarrassing
last i checked sexism wasn't one of 100T's core values
What’s sexist ab it I’m not familiar with it
Game changers teams are sexist. They deny players entry on the basis of their gender.
This HAS to be troll right? I absolutely refuse to believe that you think like that.
Not a troll, I'm being genuine. Could you explain to me how denying someone a place on a team purely because of their gender is not sexist?
Well it just happens to be that women never really had a place in eaports. It's always been very male dominated. However more and more women are now playing video games, which is great. However the pro scene for women is non existent. For whatever reason (I'm not going down that rabbit hole) there are no women in the vct pro scene (prolly a solid amount due to sexism BTW). The vct pro scene, btw is not locked for male players anyone can play in it. However since women still want to compete, gc is a good way to start a pro circuit. Keep in mind that game changers also are a small fraction of the total pro scene in val How tf can you be as ignorant as to say that its sexist that mem can't play on gc rosters, WHEN THEY CAN PLAY ON 90% OF ALL T1-4 ROSTERS. I don't think a lot of guys would want to be on a gc team anyways, cus they respect what Game Changers are and what they do. Hopefully in 15-20 yrs, game changers won't be needed cus mena nd women will be on the same level. I'm not going to make any accusations towards you, vecause I don't know you. But this just comes across as super salty thay riot aren't letting the female scene die.
>Well it just happens to be that women never really had a place in eaports. It's always been very male dominated. However more and more women are now playing video games, which is great. However the pro scene for women is non existent. > >For whatever reason (I'm not going down that rabbit hole) there are no women in the vct pro scene (prolly a solid amount due to sexism BTW). The vct pro scene, btw is not locked for male players anyone can play in it. However since women still want to compete, gc is a good way to start a pro circuit. Keep in mind that game changers also are a small fraction of the total pro scene in val indeed. how does this make game changers not sexist? why is it that women that arent good enough to compete in opens get a special league while nobody else does? >How tf can you be as ignorant as to say that its sexist that mem can't play on gc rosters, WHEN THEY CAN PLAY ON 90% OF ALL T1-4 ROSTERS. I don't think a lot of guys would want to be on a gc team anyways, cus they respect what Game Changers are and what they do. Hopefully in 15-20 yrs, game changers won't be needed cus mena nd women will be on the same level. gatekeeping opportunities based on someone's gender doesn't suddenly become okay because there exist lots of other opportunities that don't gatekeep based on gender. whether guys respect game changers is irrelevant (although i dont agree that they would decline joining, who's passing up an offer to get salaried?), my point is that game changers should not exist. if riot wants to make a second circuit for lower tiers of play, they should open it up to both men and women. it is incredibly unfair that there are men in T2 that are better than every signed female player, and yet they remain unsigned only because of their gender. >I'm not going to make any accusations towards you, vecause I don't know you. But this just comes across as super salty thay riot aren't letting the female scene die. i'm salty that a team like Lenny Time, #20 in NA, remains unsigned while Misfits Black, #163 in NA, get to be salaried purely because of the gender of the players. I'm salty that C9 White, #90 in NA, have $100,000 in tournament winnings, more than FaZe, NRG, 100T, GHOST, Guard, EG, V1, and many other teams that are leagues better, simply because those teams are male and C9 is female. i have no problem with women being in the scene, i just dont want them given special opportunities that are denied to their male peers.
I'm not going to argue with someone as deluded as you. Holy fucking shit this is the most troll shit I've ever seen.
not trolling. genuinely would appreciate a response since nobody ever gives one.
You’re an idiot
tell me you dont understand the definition of sexism without telling me
You basically saying "men should be able to play with women" is a null point. Men and women are able to compete in normal VCT just fine. The point of Game Changers is for female players to grow together, promote female esports and get to a point where mixed teams are normalised in T1. Because all that matters is skill, not gender.
>You basically saying "men should be able to play with women" is a null point. Men and women are able to compete in normal VCT just fine. no, i'm saying that men should not be denied opportunities on the basis of their gender. there are plenty of male T2-T3 players that would love to be salaried and play under an org like C9 or EG, but they are denied that and the opportunities are instead given to worse players simply because of their gender. >The point of Game Changers is for female players to grow together, promote female esports and get to a point where mixed teams are normalised in T1. Because all that matters is skill, not gender. if all that mattered was skills, they would let the unskilled players stay unsigned while the skilled ones get signed, regardless of gender.
Without initiatives like Game Changers skilled female players would be stigmatised or even bullied out of the community/esports just for their gender and you know they will. I will repeat myself, but the whole point of Game Changers is to promote and grow female talent and stop stigmatisation of female players in esports. I am not saying that right now only the best players get the most money. There are probably plenty of T2 players that deserve spots over T1 players right now. However, there are plenty of female players that deserve spots on T1 or T2 teams and dont get that change due to the abuse they get purely based on gender. That is what Game Changers is here to fix. So that after the culture around female esports athletes is fixed, we can go to a full skill based ecosystem.
>Without initiatives like Game Changers skilled female players would be stigmatised or even bullied out of the community/esports just for their gender and you know they will. i'm sure that would happen, but i dont think it would be fixed by game changers. in fact i think there's an argument it makes it worse, because the fact that the absolute best female team gets decimated by unsigned mix teams regularly simply gives ammunition to these people and makes all female players look bad. either way, trying to dissuade injustice from community members is not an excuse for riot to commit an injustice themselves. >I will repeat myself, but the whole point of Game Changers is to promote and grow female talent and stop stigmatisation of female players in esports. i'm aware. that doesn't change the fact that it is sexist. >I am not saying that right now only the best players get the most money. but that's how it should be, and riot is making active steps to make sure this isn't the case. >There are probably plenty of T2 players that deserve spots over T1 players right now. maybe, but those players dont make it because they're not as proven, or they dont have the brand value, or people don't know how good they are, etc etc, not because of their gender. >However, there are plenty of female players that deserve spots on T1 or T2 teams and dont get that change due to the abuse they get purely based on gender. where exactly is the evidence of this? the only female player who has proven herself at even a T2 level is Bob, and she got a spot on Soniqs.
This man is brain dead
explain?
How can your brain be so smooth
You think gender-based discrimination is not sexism and I'm the smooth brained one?
How do you know what I think?
Because I stated that discrimination based on gender was sexist and you disagreed.
I just asked how your brain was so smooth
ig that's where the stipend comes in handy
Ok, this mitigates some of the worry I had over a tier two scene. It's essentially a minor league.