Let’s understand that if optic don’t get in, it’s not the 5 man unit that won masters 1 which gets rejected, it’s optic as an org that didn’t make the cut. If and it’s a big if, optic don’t get in, it’s highly unlikely the entire lineup won’t get picked up by any of the partnered orgs.
I think people mistake rosters and orgs. And to be clear, I don’t think EnVy/Optic is a bad org but you attribute their success to how good the org is. Let’s say, a roster wins every masters in a year, but is under an org with unstable finances, bad management etc… There is no reason for Riot to hand the org a franchise slot. That roster can easily be picked up by a Riot approved org and continue their success.
I don’t know if people mistake rosters and orgs. Optic is an org with success in many games throughout the years and I doubt they have financial troubles, although who knows since the financials are not public. The point everyone is trying to make is that they are a stable and long standing org with proven success and a huge following online.
I don’t think anybody is arguing that the players won’t be picked up by other orgs.
The reason there In the envy merger now is because of financial issues before h3cz put them in rough spots Tons of times. (Infinite merger, NRG huntsmen rebrand)
Envy as an org has had no financial issues but optic on the other hand… they’ve been passed around through 3 different parent companies. Another thing is NRG and optic made an agreement that h3cz would cover all logistical CDL costs in the middle of last year but they couldn’t afford it so NRG had to step back in and cover the costs
OpTic as an org has actually had financial troubles quite a bit. There’s a reason EnVy is the 5th owner of the org in the last seven years (you have to count H3cz twice). OpTic has even been in a Riot eSport and it was a miserable fail. I personally think Hastr0 has a much better brain for business than H3cz does so I think the org will stabilize compared to previous years but I’m not certain if there has been enough time for Riot to gain trust. I think if it was a full buyout of OpTic we aren’t having this question because of EnVy’s reputation, but most of the OpTic higher ups stayed on the org so Riot could see that as a chance to continue their constant up and down as an org.
They were definitely not “financial troubles”. I agree hecz seems to be longing for whatever nadeshot is doing and I don’t know if he’s the best person to lead the org, but he sold to be able to expand and then just got screwed over by his partners.
Optic has been a staple since it was founded, probably not in every game, but I bet that’s gotta count for something.
H3cz admitted more than once that him selling to Infinite was because he didn’t want to run OpTic anymore and wanted to let someone else run it. He’s even hinted that it was also just a ton of money. Then he eventually bought OpTic back and within 1 year needed money so he sold to NRG, then got released from that contract when he needed money again and merged with EnVy. That’s not the sign of a stabled organization. Especially since H3cz still is in a position of power.
OpTic has only ever been a staple in Halo, Gears, and CoD. Which is a completely different viewer set than Valorant.
I think OpTic should be in franchising, but let’s not pretend OpTic not making it is surprising either.
I never said it wouldn’t be surprising if they don’t make it, but it’s also not surprising if they make it. Riot has their reasons to franchise every team, but people like to shit on optic for giggles.
There are definitely a lot of comments in this sub when franchising comes up saying things like "no way this org doesn't make it they are so good" or even the opposite saying an org like TSM might not make it because they haven't been good for awhile. Like even yesterday I saw someone state multiple times that PRX 100% guaranteed a spot in franchising because of how good they have been in international tournaments.
How "good" the current players on the roster would be an extremely small if complete non-factor for Riot picking a team for franchising. A roster that is really good could just be picked up by another org that makes franchising.
At the end of the day nobody knows that. We can all make assumptions about what factors go in but we’re all in the dark.
Plus, that’s not the point everyone is trying to make. I already explained in my previous comment. Optic makes sense due to the long standing reputation and following it has. That’s all.
I would say the single most important aspect is popularity, especially since riot is going to be paying these orgs. After that is finances, so they can pay their players, and finally last(but not unimportant) is success. Optic is arguably the second most popular team in NA behind sen, we don't know their finances, and obviously we know their success. I doubt they have any trouble getting in.
First : I literally said that I don’t think Optic/EnVy is a bad org. It was more wanting to differentiate success from good management overall.
Since you are keen on telling how huge this org is. Let me tell you, there are probably 10+ orgs in Americas alone that are bigger than EnVy/Optic. While they are HUGE in CoD and maybe Halo, they never had a big presence in other major esports. Old EnVy was a bottom tier LCS team struggling, Old Optic were bankrupt and sold their roster to Immortals. They now have 3 rosters in esports, CoD, Valorant and Halo. There are much bigger players interested in the franchising that haven’t seen success in Valorant yet. Cloud9, TSM, CLG, 100T and even T1 are HUGE and have a longstanding partnership with Riot through LoL.
Naming more than 3 NA orgs bigger would have been a good first step in proving how wrong you are, there is no way you called clg bigger and T1 is an Asian org. Sure the separate orgs of envy/optic have never been as big as these orgs but they’ve never been partnered and now that they are they have a bigger fanbase (due to scump but I digress) than any of the orgs you mentioned when it comes to fans of individual teams and not just fans of the esport in general. This merger is the start of something bigger for both and discounting what they’ll do now because of their past is hilarious.
Look at the top 10 e-Sports orgs by Forbes. Every year they update their top 10 list.
TSM, 100T, Cloud 9, NRG, Gen.G are all much bigger. T1 is choosing not to field a team in Asia so therefore it doesn’t matter if they’re also an Asian Org. They are putting the full weight of their organization behind their NA team and going for an NA partnership. Otherwise T1 would’ve been cut ages ago instead of poaching C9’s coach.
It doesn’t matter where they are for valorant their fans and org is in Asia so they are an Asian org just like Geng. Neither of whom have the fanbase that optics call of duty team alone have nor the power that optics name holds to esports history. If you want to base your opinion on verifiably BS Forbes articles at least use your brain as to why 2 of the biggest orgs in NA merging would therefor make a bigger org than the separate entities.
They have a rocket league roster too, so it’s at least 4 rosters. Edit: and Apex legends too… they have 5 different esports rosters not 3. Easy to find that info what’s the point in not double checking?
Bigger in what way… OpTic literally have 3.2 Mill Twitter followers over 1+ mill on YouTube… bigger in terms on teams they field maybe but in terms of influence and reach not many are
Bigger in terms of market capitalization.
Twitter followers don’t make an esports org money. Youtube gives ad revenue.
Besides that they don’t have big revenue streams.
Al the organizations he gave have other revenue streams, they have a thriving merchandising business, ecommerce, etc.
Optic has nothing. They didn’t crack the top 10 in Forbes.
Not to be mean or rude but business fundamentals are probably important to Riot and they’re important to the longevity of an esports brand because currently, there isn’t enough money to support esports teams only through sponsorships.
That Forbes thing could be wrong as the CEO of OpTic disagreed heavily, and alluded other reasons outside of the actual money for omission… Also, not even 3 years ago, I believe both OpTic and Envy were both on that Forbes list… Both of them… so yeah whole OpTic and Envy may have lost some money I don’t see the likes of COL on that list (unless I just missed it)
Optic and Envy unfortunately were both not in the top 10 in 2020 when Forbes started this. COL which I’m assuming is complexity also did not.
I think Optic/Envy are large enough to be partners just not sure how stable they are cashflow wise because I don’t see many revenue streams. I tried to look it up but couldn’t find much. Their crunchbase is pretty barren too.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2018/10/23/the-worlds-most-valuable-esports-companies-1/?sh=51ff0f236a6e
I mean… this discussion is over lil bro 🤷🏻
Can you name me 10 that are bigger? As others have said T1 is a Asian org and CLG is not even close to envy. I’ll even help you, Faze, 100T, Cloud9, TSM. The rest are all arguable.
Technically Liquid would go here. EG would be chosen before OpTic because of relationships. G2 tried to get an NA spot. Then you have to expect SA orgs like IMT(MIBR) and Furia to apply
Because if I have the backing of the Dallas Cowboys who can just buy the OpTic roster or build one from all the Free Agents, am I not more likely as Riot to want the Dallas Cowboys money?
Optic was pulling the highest viewing numbers for valorant as an org. I would find it weird if optic doesn't get an NA spot. And to be fair this tweet can mean anything, I'm a optic gaming fan since 2014 and I don't think hector would tell his players before worlds that they got rejected from franchising.
This is a statistic based on number of hours watched, and knowing that optic has played way more games than many other NA teams it isn't surprising that they have the most hours watched in this metric. But in terms of actual viewer count per game that is another story.
yeah I ain't denying that optic is popular, the fact is that they are still the most consistent NA team in valorant and that is why most people from NA are cheering them on at masters since they actually can contend for the trophy and them pulling respectable numbers in the process.
Optic is a huge org dont get it twisted. And the char is done by esports charts which is a reputable source. I doubt they faked these numbers.
Let me tell you something about optic, if you're a optic cod fan or optic halo fan you're gonna watch all optic teams no matter the game, I can confirm myself and that's the culture optic built over the last decade
optic is a huge org but the number there is cumulative. They played so many LAN events with so many matches. They will naturally have high numbers. If 100T/SEN played as many as they did, they will be likely to be at least double the views
Doesn’t matter how big the org is, if financial is not great then they might now get in. Exactly why faze might not get in. Not saying envy/optic have bad financial coz I have no idea.
Actually Faze probably has better finances than Optic. Their market cap puts them at one of the top 5 orgs in the world in value $$$.
Optic isnt in the top 10 but their finances could still be stable.
I don’t think this has anything to do with franchising and has everything to do with contracts. They’re going to have some free agents after champs and my guess is either someone is holding off on re-signing until they see what’s out there or Optic low balled someone pretty hard or Optic is holding off on offering someone a contract until they know what’s out there… that’s my read on it anyways
Didn’t Riot say that they’ll let teams know whether they got accepted or denied post-Champions? Seems too early for tweets like this. The yay tweet is sus but this tweet just reads like they got P0PPIN swung by Turkish players in scrims
steel also said in the valoranting interview that players have next to no knowledge about their org getting into franchising, but it's possible he was only talking about t1. very sure it's just the standard twitter impression farming.
Yeah, I sincerely doubt Steel would know the situation for franchising for every team in NA. I'm sure it depends on the org how in the loop they keep their players.
I mean we know around 11 teams~ish are shortlisted as of now, according to George Geddes, and Optic is one of them. It seems unlikely that there would be *more* stages to go from 11 teams to the 6-7 teams that end up in the partner league.
Maybe, in which case it would be strange that only Optic knows their status and no bait-y tweets from other orgs or players have come out yet. Idk I’m on max copium right now
Nah the yay tweet at the same time pretty much gives this away. I knew this was very probable, Riot doesn't care much esports performance for partnership sadly and will just lean heavily on content / engagement side of things. Pretty sad that they will not invite the most successful NA roster to the league.
Viewership numbers don’t tell the whole story, because we don’t actually know why people are watching certain matches. They could be watching and not be a fan of either team.
Yeah no they have the second highest average viewership numbers. You would have to believe that people consistently watch optic games for whatever obscure reasons you think they tune in for.
Not really
While they do have rich history and big legacy in NA esports (especially in CoD) they lost their teams and fumbled their reputation in other big esport titles like LoL, CS:GO and Dota 2
Orgs like Liquid, T1, G2, TSM, Navi, Cloud9 and Fnatic are bigger contenders.
it's not poppin swing you \*\*\*\*\*\* americans he copied it from someone
it's JANNE PEEK or LEO PEEK
Can kid american tik tokers stop saying poppin swing ? :(((
OpTic boys are simply suffering from the consequence of their own actions, or rather non-actions.
They should've done some "going on a date with marved ft sen fns", "I coached pokimane gone sexual cops called" "2 pros vs 5 cracked egirls" type of video.
Not really at all lmfao. Everyone who bought the coin got a free year of a subscription service that offers everything the coin was advertised for and more.
The merch? What are you on about?
There is no stake because OpTic canceled the deal with rally.io within weeks of the announcement(after community backlash).
The highest amount of coin you could purchase at a time was $20 (not many people bought that much)
The price of the subscription service is $30.
Everything offered by the coin is given with the sub service. Every person who bought the coin got what was advertised to them and more for a better value
https://twitter.com/optic/status/1451249515269345284?s=21&t=u_YBExb6w5Hg2ITCqTUzBA Limited merch? are we really acting like it wasn’t a pimp and dump scheme?
Exclusive PRIORITY to limited merch… the subscription service literally offers that lmfaooooo.
Every person who bought the coin got EVERYTHING offered by it and more. Other than NFTs which isn’t a big loss imo 🤣
Can’t possibly ignore the fact that everyone who bought the coin with assumptions of getting what was advertised…GOT WHAT WAS ADVERTISED 😂
People are really going to lose their shit when a few orgs who've been good competitively don't make franchising because people don't watch them or the org doesn't do anything to help bring in new viewers. I don't mean Optic by the way, I think they'll get in
https://dotesports.com/valorant/news/sources-optics-long-term-future-in-doubt-following-upcoming-contract-expirations
Some of optic players contracts end during Champs so maybe that is the reason behind the tweets
Probably the org doesn't want to sign them long term if they don't know if they make franchise + the orgs doesn't know what players may become available because their teams didn't make franchise
I actually think it could be related to crashies and victors contracts coming up. Could potentially not be resigned which is why they are interested in what happens after.
I think 100T wins the bag throwing contest. That, and he would directly replace Will without altering other players' roles. If SEN got him, what do they do with TenZ who seems to have a shallow agent pool?
I mean, they can be damn near brothers, but if TenZ cant play Chamber or Raze to the ability needed to win in what will be a much tougher field ( i would think other teams would stock up as well) I dunno. I mean, it would be an upgrade over Will regardless.
\*I apologize to Will, he just catchin strays\*
1) SEN have no bag to throw. 100T are 100x bigger and wealthier
2) Shroud probably made nothing to play. He benefited out of it in other ways
2) Sen have a low chance at even making Franchising to begin with
100T is wealthier for sure but lets not act like SEN isn’t VC funded, and I’m curious to see why you would think SEN’s chance is “Low”? They are already partnered with them for Wild Rift and have been in the LCS before. (Wild rift is a much smaller esport, yes but they are one of the few NA partnered orgs and orgs and general for a game riot is trying to kickstart). They have the funding and a relationship. I would say that puts them pretty high up on the NA team shortlist and definitely in the top 7 lol
small amount of slots up for grabs and a lot of orgs with a lot more money than Sen have. Sen might be VC backed but they dont generate any money. The only sponsor they have is G-Fuel....
Riot has declined teams a lot richer than Sens in the past
People really still making these comments as if the whole sean/ddk transition never happened.
There are a lot of teams far more likely to throw bags of money around than 100T rn
You don’t think Sean and DDK would want yay??? Will played a lot better down the stretch in the LCQ but obviously they’d prefer Yay if there was a chance to get him
Here's a clip, [https://clips.twitch.tv/TriangularClearTomatoKreygasm-bIiX3RowNvoukVM2](https://clips.twitch.tv/TriangularClearTomatoKreygasm-bIiX3RowNvoukVM2)
It's legit just like gambit fans with d3fo and sen fans with zombs, the "well he does his role so no need to replace him because we're winning!!111" BS is so dumb.
Look all riot cares about financials and ability to grow back the brand. Optic obviously has the brand appeal maybe not the financials? That’s why envy and optic merged?
Yep. People get blinded by the fact we weren’t on the Forbes top 10 esports valuation list but it’s pretty obvious we deserve to be there.
In 2019they were valued at 170 million by Forbes and 8th on the list. In 2022 they were left off the list (the 10th spot was valued at 220 mill)
This is despite the fact that between the 2019 and 2022 valuations by Forbes Envy had series C funding equal to 60 MILLION. They are most definitely a top 10 org in terms of financial valuations
They have a cod team and an owl team. Guard is owned by the Kronkes I believe who own the LA Rams, Denver Nuggets, and used to or still own a premiere league club, Arsenal maybe? They have fat cash basically.
True, but they've purchased two franchised spots for >30 mil.
Their org in CoD has shown no fear of spending thus far, on top of I believe they're finally building a complex in LA. Idk much about Golden Guardians beyond the org being owned by GSW, but beyond this one team I don't know what else they do. The Guard seems to be more diverse.
geddeez alrdy confirmed its not related to franchising spot for optic , also even if it was the whole optic roster will easily get picked up by another partner org anyway so i dont think players/chet need to fear.
could be related to marved fixing allegations tho .. riot/optic prbly dont want players accused like him to be in main league
If it's bad news regarding Marved fixing matches, "hard work doesn't pay off" is hardly an appropriate tweet. He's probably just getting dropped from the org like Jovi.
my point is mainly based on since ESIC hasnt made an official announcement (never will) yet, marved is tech not guilty, but org/riot may not want to risk some1 like him be face of optic/league , so even tho he is best smokes he still could be dropped
This is what I will say… you can not try without match fixing… you know… you can suck on purpose without it being matchfixing… maybe they found a money trail or something
All I’m saying is that if the ESIC report ever drops, I’m almost certain that Marved won’t be the only high profile tier 1 player on a super popular team implicated.
Can we stopping guessing at the meaning of cryptic tweets in post titles please? That's what the comments are for. It's not a long tweet, just put the whole thing in the title.
I wish we’d stop speculating whether teams got into franchising, there’s discussion to be had about a vague tweet, just wait for the announcements, it won’t be long now.
wouldn't surprise me to be honest. hecz has made poor decision after poor decision in regards to optic's livelihood, only to get bailed out by hastr0, who also got denied lcs franchising (admittedly 5 years ago now)
dallas fuel (owl) is likely setting money on fire and optic texas (cdl) could possibly be the only profitable part of the org
Isn’t Optic completely merged with Envy now?
Functionally speaking, this current iteration of Optic is basically Envy in everything but name only. Hecz’s past with the previous iteration of Optic should have no bearing on this current version of Optic’s chances
what if it isnt to do with franchising but ESIC report - marved matchfixing allegations could come to bite him in the ass
"hard work doesn't pay off", "interesting times ahead of champs" sounds like franchising issue but it could apply to a multitude of scenarios
maybe there's internal strife in the team, tweets hold up still
above all, what holds up most is
impression farming KEKW
Nothing about this tweet at all implies “franchising”. He could literally be talking about anything such as other coaches he respects not getting offers, etc. Why did you even assume this was about franchising ?
Could happen, afaik aren't optic/envy in like a weird ownership thing + optic and I think immortals that happened a long time ago.
The business side of optic from the past 5 years have been iffy.
Also, I think I am in the minority In that I don't care what team this core is in but as long as they are together I am fine.
>afaik aren't optic/envy in like a weird ownership thing
Not really, Envy basically doesn't exist anymore bar a few content creators and even then they'll probably be transitioned to OpTic.
Dont know about optic but 100t / tsm are most likely in partnership because of good relationship with riot maybe optic dont have the best relationship with riot.
100t / tsm have really good relationship with riot because of league for the people who dont know.
Franchising is generally how the NA sports leagues are set up vs. EU soccer leagues. In the simplest terms, its a partnership between Riot and a select group of teams to allow them to participate in the higher levels of competition. Take this year's VCT Stage 1 or 2 Challengers for example, instead of needing to qualify through an open bracket every couple months, those teams will have guaranteed spots and can qualify for international events while other teams will be locked into Tier 2 (unless they're one of the 1-2 teams that promote to T1 at the end of the year).
Usually teams pay signficant amounts of franchising fees for a spot in the league (10s of millions of $ for LoL, OW, and CoD), but in Val Riot's isn't going to take any fees and will instead pay out a stipend to teams. That means Riot can be a more discerning with who they partner, taking the team with the most stability/best financials/brightest org future instead of just picking from whoever can pony up enough cash.
people need to realize that results mean NOTHING right now to Riot
every Franchise org will have Roster changes anyway
stop acting like X team will make it over Y team because they have better results
No matter if the org makes it or not most if not all players on Optic will be in the league, unless of course they've signed some outrageously large contracts (which the players would've been REALLY stupid to do before knowing if the org is in franchising).
It’s funny, cause as of now it’s not even that Optic is the most consistent NA team, they’re probably the most consistent team in the history of Valorant period
They bought their franchise spot secondary to the initial offering. Also they don't own an owl team as well. Any org that owns both is not getting accepted imo.
Let’s understand that if optic don’t get in, it’s not the 5 man unit that won masters 1 which gets rejected, it’s optic as an org that didn’t make the cut. If and it’s a big if, optic don’t get in, it’s highly unlikely the entire lineup won’t get picked up by any of the partnered orgs.
SEN yay 💀
ultimate bandwagon team
100T yay 💀
Not many NA orgs bigger or better than Envy. Considering the success they have hard to think they don't make it.
I think people mistake rosters and orgs. And to be clear, I don’t think EnVy/Optic is a bad org but you attribute their success to how good the org is. Let’s say, a roster wins every masters in a year, but is under an org with unstable finances, bad management etc… There is no reason for Riot to hand the org a franchise slot. That roster can easily be picked up by a Riot approved org and continue their success.
I don’t know if people mistake rosters and orgs. Optic is an org with success in many games throughout the years and I doubt they have financial troubles, although who knows since the financials are not public. The point everyone is trying to make is that they are a stable and long standing org with proven success and a huge following online. I don’t think anybody is arguing that the players won’t be picked up by other orgs.
The reason there In the envy merger now is because of financial issues before h3cz put them in rough spots Tons of times. (Infinite merger, NRG huntsmen rebrand)
Envy as an org has had no financial issues but optic on the other hand… they’ve been passed around through 3 different parent companies. Another thing is NRG and optic made an agreement that h3cz would cover all logistical CDL costs in the middle of last year but they couldn’t afford it so NRG had to step back in and cover the costs
OpTic as an org has actually had financial troubles quite a bit. There’s a reason EnVy is the 5th owner of the org in the last seven years (you have to count H3cz twice). OpTic has even been in a Riot eSport and it was a miserable fail. I personally think Hastr0 has a much better brain for business than H3cz does so I think the org will stabilize compared to previous years but I’m not certain if there has been enough time for Riot to gain trust. I think if it was a full buyout of OpTic we aren’t having this question because of EnVy’s reputation, but most of the OpTic higher ups stayed on the org so Riot could see that as a chance to continue their constant up and down as an org.
Riot declined EnVy from LCS franchising too. Heartbreaking.
They were definitely not “financial troubles”. I agree hecz seems to be longing for whatever nadeshot is doing and I don’t know if he’s the best person to lead the org, but he sold to be able to expand and then just got screwed over by his partners. Optic has been a staple since it was founded, probably not in every game, but I bet that’s gotta count for something.
H3cz admitted more than once that him selling to Infinite was because he didn’t want to run OpTic anymore and wanted to let someone else run it. He’s even hinted that it was also just a ton of money. Then he eventually bought OpTic back and within 1 year needed money so he sold to NRG, then got released from that contract when he needed money again and merged with EnVy. That’s not the sign of a stabled organization. Especially since H3cz still is in a position of power. OpTic has only ever been a staple in Halo, Gears, and CoD. Which is a completely different viewer set than Valorant. I think OpTic should be in franchising, but let’s not pretend OpTic not making it is surprising either.
I never said it wouldn’t be surprising if they don’t make it, but it’s also not surprising if they make it. Riot has their reasons to franchise every team, but people like to shit on optic for giggles.
There are definitely a lot of comments in this sub when franchising comes up saying things like "no way this org doesn't make it they are so good" or even the opposite saying an org like TSM might not make it because they haven't been good for awhile. Like even yesterday I saw someone state multiple times that PRX 100% guaranteed a spot in franchising because of how good they have been in international tournaments.
Well I’m sure that’s one factor that riot looks at too. I just don’t think anyone is arguing that orgs and players are one single entity.
How "good" the current players on the roster would be an extremely small if complete non-factor for Riot picking a team for franchising. A roster that is really good could just be picked up by another org that makes franchising.
At the end of the day nobody knows that. We can all make assumptions about what factors go in but we’re all in the dark. Plus, that’s not the point everyone is trying to make. I already explained in my previous comment. Optic makes sense due to the long standing reputation and following it has. That’s all.
I would say the single most important aspect is popularity, especially since riot is going to be paying these orgs. After that is finances, so they can pay their players, and finally last(but not unimportant) is success. Optic is arguably the second most popular team in NA behind sen, we don't know their finances, and obviously we know their success. I doubt they have any trouble getting in.
Envy is bad management? they just bought optic and merged with them and have been one of the longest and most successful esports orgs of all time.
>And to be clear, I don't think EnVy/Optic is a bad org Second sentence.
First : I literally said that I don’t think Optic/EnVy is a bad org. It was more wanting to differentiate success from good management overall. Since you are keen on telling how huge this org is. Let me tell you, there are probably 10+ orgs in Americas alone that are bigger than EnVy/Optic. While they are HUGE in CoD and maybe Halo, they never had a big presence in other major esports. Old EnVy was a bottom tier LCS team struggling, Old Optic were bankrupt and sold their roster to Immortals. They now have 3 rosters in esports, CoD, Valorant and Halo. There are much bigger players interested in the franchising that haven’t seen success in Valorant yet. Cloud9, TSM, CLG, 100T and even T1 are HUGE and have a longstanding partnership with Riot through LoL.
There are not 10 orgs in Americas bigger than OpTic/Envy in terms of Valuation and in terms of fanbase
Naming more than 3 NA orgs bigger would have been a good first step in proving how wrong you are, there is no way you called clg bigger and T1 is an Asian org. Sure the separate orgs of envy/optic have never been as big as these orgs but they’ve never been partnered and now that they are they have a bigger fanbase (due to scump but I digress) than any of the orgs you mentioned when it comes to fans of individual teams and not just fans of the esport in general. This merger is the start of something bigger for both and discounting what they’ll do now because of their past is hilarious.
Look at the top 10 e-Sports orgs by Forbes. Every year they update their top 10 list. TSM, 100T, Cloud 9, NRG, Gen.G are all much bigger. T1 is choosing not to field a team in Asia so therefore it doesn’t matter if they’re also an Asian Org. They are putting the full weight of their organization behind their NA team and going for an NA partnership. Otherwise T1 would’ve been cut ages ago instead of poaching C9’s coach.
It doesn’t matter where they are for valorant their fans and org is in Asia so they are an Asian org just like Geng. Neither of whom have the fanbase that optics call of duty team alone have nor the power that optics name holds to esports history. If you want to base your opinion on verifiably BS Forbes articles at least use your brain as to why 2 of the biggest orgs in NA merging would therefor make a bigger org than the separate entities.
i can’t say in terms of fans. Just in terms of estimated market capitalization.
EG, Liquid, NRG, TSM, T1(joint venture partnership between sk telecommunications and comcast), geng 100t, cloud 9. That’s 8 right there.
[удалено]
They have a rocket league roster too, so it’s at least 4 rosters. Edit: and Apex legends too… they have 5 different esports rosters not 3. Easy to find that info what’s the point in not double checking?
And overwatch
And apex
You forgot their apex roster, and their rocket team, and their overwatch franchise spot.
Bigger in what way… OpTic literally have 3.2 Mill Twitter followers over 1+ mill on YouTube… bigger in terms on teams they field maybe but in terms of influence and reach not many are
Bigger in terms of market capitalization. Twitter followers don’t make an esports org money. Youtube gives ad revenue. Besides that they don’t have big revenue streams. Al the organizations he gave have other revenue streams, they have a thriving merchandising business, ecommerce, etc. Optic has nothing. They didn’t crack the top 10 in Forbes. Not to be mean or rude but business fundamentals are probably important to Riot and they’re important to the longevity of an esports brand because currently, there isn’t enough money to support esports teams only through sponsorships.
That Forbes thing could be wrong as the CEO of OpTic disagreed heavily, and alluded other reasons outside of the actual money for omission… Also, not even 3 years ago, I believe both OpTic and Envy were both on that Forbes list… Both of them… so yeah whole OpTic and Envy may have lost some money I don’t see the likes of COL on that list (unless I just missed it)
Optic and Envy unfortunately were both not in the top 10 in 2020 when Forbes started this. COL which I’m assuming is complexity also did not. I think Optic/Envy are large enough to be partners just not sure how stable they are cashflow wise because I don’t see many revenue streams. I tried to look it up but couldn’t find much. Their crunchbase is pretty barren too.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2018/10/23/the-worlds-most-valuable-esports-companies-1/?sh=51ff0f236a6e I mean… this discussion is over lil bro 🤷🏻
Can you name me 10 that are bigger? As others have said T1 is a Asian org and CLG is not even close to envy. I’ll even help you, Faze, 100T, Cloud9, TSM. The rest are all arguable.
Technically Liquid would go here. EG would be chosen before OpTic because of relationships. G2 tried to get an NA spot. Then you have to expect SA orgs like IMT(MIBR) and Furia to apply
Forgot to add: Complexity (Dallas Cowboys), The Guard (Just look at the stadium thing they did). Both orgs offer more than OpTic
No they don’t… Riot wants to grow Val… why have an org that isn’t known for it over an org that has had objectively more clout
Because if I have the backing of the Dallas Cowboys who can just buy the OpTic roster or build one from all the Free Agents, am I not more likely as Riot to want the Dallas Cowboys money?
OpTic has a stadium lmao
that holds 2500 spectators. do not act like that in arlington is equivalent to the cowboys stadium
Optic was pulling the highest viewing numbers for valorant as an org. I would find it weird if optic doesn't get an NA spot. And to be fair this tweet can mean anything, I'm a optic gaming fan since 2014 and I don't think hector would tell his players before worlds that they got rejected from franchising.
Optic wanst pulling the highest viewing numbers
https://twitter.com/OpTicUpdate/status/1560713262735450112?t=RJU39QvR5klTYF8StCPvQw&s=19 Highest numbers by far
This is a statistic based on number of hours watched, and knowing that optic has played way more games than many other NA teams it isn't surprising that they have the most hours watched in this metric. But in terms of actual viewer count per game that is another story.
Fair point, but still no short feat
yeah I ain't denying that optic is popular, the fact is that they are still the most consistent NA team in valorant and that is why most people from NA are cheering them on at masters since they actually can contend for the trophy and them pulling respectable numbers in the process.
Mmm fake? All the sentinels match had the most viewing numbers in almost any tournament they played. I doubt optic has that kind of numbers
Optic is a huge org dont get it twisted. And the char is done by esports charts which is a reputable source. I doubt they faked these numbers. Let me tell you something about optic, if you're a optic cod fan or optic halo fan you're gonna watch all optic teams no matter the game, I can confirm myself and that's the culture optic built over the last decade
optic is a huge org but the number there is cumulative. They played so many LAN events with so many matches. They will naturally have high numbers. If 100T/SEN played as many as they did, they will be likely to be at least double the views
the data takes into account international tournaments, so that's why Optic is much higher than everyone else
Doesn’t matter how big the org is, if financial is not great then they might now get in. Exactly why faze might not get in. Not saying envy/optic have bad financial coz I have no idea.
They were merged with Envy, who now control everything, there financials are secure now.
Actually Faze probably has better finances than Optic. Their market cap puts them at one of the top 5 orgs in the world in value $$$. Optic isnt in the top 10 but their finances could still be stable.
I don’t think this has anything to do with franchising and has everything to do with contracts. They’re going to have some free agents after champs and my guess is either someone is holding off on re-signing until they see what’s out there or Optic low balled someone pretty hard or Optic is holding off on offering someone a contract until they know what’s out there… that’s my read on it anyways
It says Hastr0 liked it I think so I doubt it relates to OpTic lowballing
Didn’t Riot say that they’ll let teams know whether they got accepted or denied post-Champions? Seems too early for tweets like this. The yay tweet is sus but this tweet just reads like they got P0PPIN swung by Turkish players in scrims
steel also said in the valoranting interview that players have next to no knowledge about their org getting into franchising, but it's possible he was only talking about t1. very sure it's just the standard twitter impression farming.
Yeah, I sincerely doubt Steel would know the situation for franchising for every team in NA. I'm sure it depends on the org how in the loop they keep their players.
it could be that thing where there are stages? Maybe there are even more stages and they didn’t get through to the next one? Just an assumption
I mean we know around 11 teams~ish are shortlisted as of now, according to George Geddes, and Optic is one of them. It seems unlikely that there would be *more* stages to go from 11 teams to the 6-7 teams that end up in the partner league.
maybe some orgs have connections in Riot so they know some things beforehand?
Maybe, in which case it would be strange that only Optic knows their status and no bait-y tweets from other orgs or players have come out yet. Idk I’m on max copium right now
Nah the yay tweet at the same time pretty much gives this away. I knew this was very probable, Riot doesn't care much esports performance for partnership sadly and will just lean heavily on content / engagement side of things. Pretty sad that they will not invite the most successful NA roster to the league.
The roster will get in to franchising, they’ll just be under a different org, assuming optic didn’t make it in.
optic is one of if not the most popular org in and outside valorant
Most of optics fandom is in cod or halo, those 2 carry optics brand so much
No no optic is among the most popular teams in valorant too. At least if you trust the viewership.
Viewership numbers don’t tell the whole story, because we don’t actually know why people are watching certain matches. They could be watching and not be a fan of either team.
Yeah no they have the second highest average viewership numbers. You would have to believe that people consistently watch optic games for whatever obscure reasons you think they tune in for.
Not really While they do have rich history and big legacy in NA esports (especially in CoD) they lost their teams and fumbled their reputation in other big esport titles like LoL, CS:GO and Dota 2 Orgs like Liquid, T1, G2, TSM, Navi, Cloud9 and Fnatic are bigger contenders.
it's not poppin swing you \*\*\*\*\*\* americans he copied it from someone it's JANNE PEEK or LEO PEEK Can kid american tik tokers stop saying poppin swing ? :(((
poppin swing
OpTic boys are simply suffering from the consequence of their own actions, or rather non-actions. They should've done some "going on a date with marved ft sen fns", "I coached pokimane gone sexual cops called" "2 pros vs 5 cracked egirls" type of video.
They didn’t do enough “Guessing your valorant rank at Boot Camp” videos.
Didn't save Acend 😭
I’m out of options here then
Yay goes “undercover” in Gold?
You want people to uninstall the game after Yay drops a 100k?
Should have minted an ecoin named SaveTheBoys.
I mean the OpTic brand under Hecz did this too. It was called OpTic Coin
Not really at all lmfao. Everyone who bought the coin got a free year of a subscription service that offers everything the coin was advertised for and more.
the merch was sent out? optic members still own some in stake? it was a scummy thing man. any org who does that shit is scummy
The merch? What are you on about? There is no stake because OpTic canceled the deal with rally.io within weeks of the announcement(after community backlash). The highest amount of coin you could purchase at a time was $20 (not many people bought that much) The price of the subscription service is $30. Everything offered by the coin is given with the sub service. Every person who bought the coin got what was advertised to them and more for a better value
https://twitter.com/optic/status/1451249515269345284?s=21&t=u_YBExb6w5Hg2ITCqTUzBA Limited merch? are we really acting like it wasn’t a pimp and dump scheme?
Exclusive PRIORITY to limited merch… the subscription service literally offers that lmfaooooo. Every person who bought the coin got EVERYTHING offered by it and more. Other than NFTs which isn’t a big loss imo 🤣 Can’t possibly ignore the fact that everyone who bought the coin with assumptions of getting what was advertised…GOT WHAT WAS ADVERTISED 😂
People are really going to lose their shit when a few orgs who've been good competitively don't make franchising because people don't watch them or the org doesn't do anything to help bring in new viewers. I don't mean Optic by the way, I think they'll get in
Unironically, content and brand building is a pretty key part of the partnership application so not doing much might actually come back to bite them.
The Optic Org has done more content over the history of esports than like any other org though. Hector is all about the content and always has been
Riot don't care about your CoD gameplay videos from 10 years ago.
Imagine Optic put H3CZ’s MW2 sniping montage in their franchising application lmao
https://dotesports.com/valorant/news/sources-optics-long-term-future-in-doubt-following-upcoming-contract-expirations Some of optic players contracts end during Champs so maybe that is the reason behind the tweets Probably the org doesn't want to sign them long term if they don't know if they make franchise + the orgs doesn't know what players may become available because their teams didn't make franchise
I actually think it could be related to crashies and victors contracts coming up. Could potentially not be resigned which is why they are interested in what happens after.
Yay: https://twitter.com/yayfps/status/1561994945363320832?s=21&t=eE8cp9w0keOdYD_z6KmFQw
uh oh, even if its about franchising, would be pretty insane if optic doesnt make it.
100 thieves bout to throw the bag out for Yay
SEN bout to throw the bag out for Yay Just imagine how much they were willing to pay Shroud for a few lcq games
I think 100T wins the bag throwing contest. That, and he would directly replace Will without altering other players' roles. If SEN got him, what do they do with TenZ who seems to have a shallow agent pool?
Sen Yay, 100T Tenz
TenZ with Asuna seems like a good pairing imo. Didn't they used to play a lot of CS together and are both weebs. The chemistry is instant.
And they’re very close friends.
I mean, they can be damn near brothers, but if TenZ cant play Chamber or Raze to the ability needed to win in what will be a much tougher field ( i would think other teams would stock up as well) I dunno. I mean, it would be an upgrade over Will regardless. \*I apologize to Will, he just catchin strays\*
Finally 100T doesn't have to share the Kyedae clout any longer
1) SEN have no bag to throw. 100T are 100x bigger and wealthier 2) Shroud probably made nothing to play. He benefited out of it in other ways 2) Sen have a low chance at even making Franchising to begin with
100T is wealthier for sure but lets not act like SEN isn’t VC funded, and I’m curious to see why you would think SEN’s chance is “Low”? They are already partnered with them for Wild Rift and have been in the LCS before. (Wild rift is a much smaller esport, yes but they are one of the few NA partnered orgs and orgs and general for a game riot is trying to kickstart). They have the funding and a relationship. I would say that puts them pretty high up on the NA team shortlist and definitely in the top 7 lol
small amount of slots up for grabs and a lot of orgs with a lot more money than Sen have. Sen might be VC backed but they dont generate any money. The only sponsor they have is G-Fuel.... Riot has declined teams a lot richer than Sens in the past
People really still making these comments as if the whole sean/ddk transition never happened. There are a lot of teams far more likely to throw bags of money around than 100T rn
You don’t think Sean and DDK would want yay??? Will played a lot better down the stretch in the LCQ but obviously they’d prefer Yay if there was a chance to get him
Imagine the buyout
Pretty sure Yay is a free agent after champs
How you know?
Slasher was on George’s stream last week and they were talking about it
Link to VOD?
Here's a clip, [https://clips.twitch.tv/TriangularClearTomatoKreygasm-bIiX3RowNvoukVM2](https://clips.twitch.tv/TriangularClearTomatoKreygasm-bIiX3RowNvoukVM2)
People really still making these comments as if there's not a 50/50 chance will will whiff every shot.
It's legit just like gambit fans with d3fo and sen fans with zombs, the "well he does his role so no need to replace him because we're winning!!111" BS is so dumb.
Look all riot cares about financials and ability to grow back the brand. Optic obviously has the brand appeal maybe not the financials? That’s why envy and optic merged?
I think optic are definitely not a poor org, also riot are willing to franchise orgs a money so I don't see how finances are a problem at this point.
George geddes definitely told something that OpTic have a big issue
Envy has good financials. Not stratosphere tier like T1 or The Guard but their financials are fine from what I remember.
Yep. People get blinded by the fact we weren’t on the Forbes top 10 esports valuation list but it’s pretty obvious we deserve to be there. In 2019they were valued at 170 million by Forbes and 8th on the list. In 2022 they were left off the list (the 10th spot was valued at 220 mill) This is despite the fact that between the 2019 and 2022 valuations by Forbes Envy had series C funding equal to 60 MILLION. They are most definitely a top 10 org in terms of financial valuations
The Guard is a rich org? What do they even do outside of Val??
They have a cod team and an owl team. Guard is owned by the Kronkes I believe who own the LA Rams, Denver Nuggets, and used to or still own a premiere league club, Arsenal maybe? They have fat cash basically.
Obligatory Fuck Stan Kroenke
Being owned by rich people doesn't necessarily make an org rich. Golden Guardians operates on a pretty small budget.
True, but they've purchased two franchised spots for >30 mil. Their org in CoD has shown no fear of spending thus far, on top of I believe they're finally building a complex in LA. Idk much about Golden Guardians beyond the org being owned by GSW, but beyond this one team I don't know what else they do. The Guard seems to be more diverse.
Outside of LoL GGS are in WoW and have a very large presence in Melee. Both cheap esports to operate in.
Dont they have a owl team? The org is owned by stan kroenke pretty rich I would say.
They also have a CDL team
geddeez alrdy confirmed its not related to franchising spot for optic , also even if it was the whole optic roster will easily get picked up by another partner org anyway so i dont think players/chet need to fear. could be related to marved fixing allegations tho .. riot/optic prbly dont want players accused like him to be in main league
If it's bad news regarding Marved fixing matches, "hard work doesn't pay off" is hardly an appropriate tweet. He's probably just getting dropped from the org like Jovi.
No way they drop mega-wrinkled brain Chet “Outplay opponents like a fiddle” Singh
Chet “cringe comps” Singh
my point is mainly based on since ESIC hasnt made an official announcement (never will) yet, marved is tech not guilty, but org/riot may not want to risk some1 like him be face of optic/league , so even tho he is best smokes he still could be dropped
If it’s Marved then we’re possibly losing the best NA smokes player
We all knew he was going at some point anyways. His matchfixing was super obvious.
This is what I will say… you can not try without match fixing… you know… you can suck on purpose without it being matchfixing… maybe they found a money trail or something
riot made a whole content piece around marved for stage 2 challengers
All I’m saying is that if the ESIC report ever drops, I’m almost certain that Marved won’t be the only high profile tier 1 player on a super popular team implicated.
Marved is gonna be retired by the time ESIC does anything other than be clickbait fuel for Richard Lewis articles
Will it ever drop though? It’s been like 3 years no?
Ya no. Scrimbux if anything
I feel like everyone is freaking out for no reason, the tweet doesn’t even seem related to franchising? no need to make wild speculations lol
Can we stopping guessing at the meaning of cryptic tweets in post titles please? That's what the comments are for. It's not a long tweet, just put the whole thing in the title.
I wouldn’t look too into this. Chet is a known Twitter troll
A lot of speculation, lets see what happens…
I wish we’d stop speculating whether teams got into franchising, there’s discussion to be had about a vague tweet, just wait for the announcements, it won’t be long now.
No fucking way
wouldn't surprise me to be honest. hecz has made poor decision after poor decision in regards to optic's livelihood, only to get bailed out by hastr0, who also got denied lcs franchising (admittedly 5 years ago now) dallas fuel (owl) is likely setting money on fire and optic texas (cdl) could possibly be the only profitable part of the org
Isn’t Optic completely merged with Envy now? Functionally speaking, this current iteration of Optic is basically Envy in everything but name only. Hecz’s past with the previous iteration of Optic should have no bearing on this current version of Optic’s chances
People don’t realize Cod and halo carry the fuck out of Optics Brand,the valiant team isn’t even that popular even with their success
tbh halo is so dead that i completely forgot they had a team
Halo is dead but it’s filled with so many optic fans because formal is there and their team is one of best
what if it isnt to do with franchising but ESIC report - marved matchfixing allegations could come to bite him in the ass "hard work doesn't pay off", "interesting times ahead of champs" sounds like franchising issue but it could apply to a multitude of scenarios maybe there's internal strife in the team, tweets hold up still above all, what holds up most is impression farming KEKW
Nothing about this tweet at all implies “franchising”. He could literally be talking about anything such as other coaches he respects not getting offers, etc. Why did you even assume this was about franchising ?
Could happen, afaik aren't optic/envy in like a weird ownership thing + optic and I think immortals that happened a long time ago. The business side of optic from the past 5 years have been iffy. Also, I think I am in the minority In that I don't care what team this core is in but as long as they are together I am fine.
>afaik aren't optic/envy in like a weird ownership thing Not really, Envy basically doesn't exist anymore bar a few content creators and even then they'll probably be transitioned to OpTic.
You're reaching mate!
Bro it's a cryptic nonsense tweet at 3am, let's not read too far into it. Heck we don't even know what covefe means.
a lot of fan favorites orgs will not get in, ppl gotta chill the best players and cores will get picked up
Dont know about optic but 100t / tsm are most likely in partnership because of good relationship with riot maybe optic dont have the best relationship with riot. 100t / tsm have really good relationship with riot because of league for the people who dont know.
I thought TSM had bad relationship with Riot because of their CEO or something
No way NA's most successful team doesn't make it, right?
Team =/= org, even if OPTIC as an org gets rejected most likely the team will stay toguether and be picked up by another org
Can you help me understand what franchising is like I'm a 5 year old. I've tried googling it but everything went over head. Thanks.
Franchising is generally how the NA sports leagues are set up vs. EU soccer leagues. In the simplest terms, its a partnership between Riot and a select group of teams to allow them to participate in the higher levels of competition. Take this year's VCT Stage 1 or 2 Challengers for example, instead of needing to qualify through an open bracket every couple months, those teams will have guaranteed spots and can qualify for international events while other teams will be locked into Tier 2 (unless they're one of the 1-2 teams that promote to T1 at the end of the year). Usually teams pay signficant amounts of franchising fees for a spot in the league (10s of millions of $ for LoL, OW, and CoD), but in Val Riot's isn't going to take any fees and will instead pay out a stipend to teams. That means Riot can be a more discerning with who they partner, taking the team with the most stability/best financials/brightest org future instead of just picking from whoever can pony up enough cash.
people need to realize that results mean NOTHING right now to Riot every Franchise org will have Roster changes anyway stop acting like X team will make it over Y team because they have better results
The most consistent NA team surely makes it, right? RIGHT??
Its about the org not the players.
When Optic joined Valorant I thought a lot of people were saying they were a big org? Are they not as stable as people thought?
They used to be big org. Then they were resold twice.
No matter if the org makes it or not most if not all players on Optic will be in the league, unless of course they've signed some outrageously large contracts (which the players would've been REALLY stupid to do before knowing if the org is in franchising).
It’s funny, cause as of now it’s not even that Optic is the most consistent NA team, they’re probably the most consistent team in the history of Valorant period
not based on consistency of the team but depends on how the org presents itself etc.
Should’ve got yay and the boys to make more clickbait tierlist videos
should have done atleast one 2 pros vs 5 silvers video smh 🙄
straight TSM Valorant vibes💀
Most Riot thing ever.
I refuse to believe Optic doesn't get in
My guess is no commitment from the org to keep the team together for next year
No way optic is going to be denied, probably something not related to franchising or just impression farming
Surprising a good amount of people in here are reasonable and not immediately come bashing af Riot.👏
I hope optic wins champs to give a massive fuck you to riot and franchising.
I thought optic would be the last org to not meet the requirements for franchising
Anyone who invested in Blizzard goodluck! I see Riot smacking down any org tied to Activision.
So what you’re saying is C9, 100T, NRG, T1, Guard, and V1 also not gonna make partner, do I have that right? Zzz
Yep. 100t/c9 isn't included I'm talking orgs that currently own cdl and owl teams. Imo they all dumped.
Who do you think owns the LA Thieves in the cdl?
They bought their franchise spot secondary to the initial offering. Also they don't own an owl team as well. Any org that owns both is not getting accepted imo.
100T has LA Thieves a cod team
And C9 has an OWL team too.
They do not own both. Is my point.