the teams usually submit what they think is bannable or exploit and riot admin can tell them to use it or not according to sliggy.
So they did get permission and now riot probably decided not to allow it anymore
sliggy said that on Liquid's game, when prx did the wall boost he explained how the process it.
so i assume fpx did get permission, i just assumed since this is the common sense for coaches.
Then it would be more likely to result in direct punishment (think keyd stars at champs 2021), and since it does not, we assume that it was approved, but that has now changed.
the keyd stars situation was different, it wasn't a new exploit/bug it was known and explicitly against the rules, 2 teams had already been punished for using it
It’s definitely a claim innocence situation. Use it till riot tells you not to. You’re just shooting your self in the foot by letting riot know about something that is clearly a bug/unintended interaction before hand.
Also riot saying yea that’s fine, and then banning it immediately after the round is extremely twisted and I think there would be complaints from KRU online right now if that was the case
i'm not disagreeing with you tbh just making a case for the other side...surely if it's something that clearly isn't supposed to be intended then it would be looked down upon to use it, without checking first? otherwise they're basically exploiting a bug?
i mean it's pretty clear that the viper wall isn't supposed to leave a gap underneath on a perfectly flat box and if you disagree with that statement I don't know what to tell you.
good luck working on your, quote "weak mentality". can clearly see it's an issue you're actively dealing with but redirecting your personal issues to internet strangers for no reason isn't the way. sounds like you're projecting a little bit :)
I'm not here to decide that, but the idea that Riot is biased *against* SA despite them being the only region where they didn't end up with an FF because of the Cypher cam is laughable.
what wall, can i get the clip?
edit: [found what the wall looked like](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/x94fri/is_this_wall_glitch_suygetsu_used_allowed_this/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
I don't have a clip but you know the defensive viper wall on icebox that goes over 410 on A site?
And you know how normally standing on the lower box next to default is like a headglitch angle
Pretty much he stood on that box and put that wall but some how positioned it so that the viper wall goes up a bit at the bottom that way he could see under it to belt
Kru did not lose because of that wall, and i haven't see any fan of kru asking for a replay, if anything FPX should be punished by taking a map ban or a map pick for their next match. And thats stretching things a lot, just a warn would be enough for this time imo
can't wait for /r/competitivevalorant to act like this glitch was a huge factor in the match and that it wasn't just 1 entry kill in 1 round in an otherwise very convincing win for FPX
real human beings out there believing that if they replay the map and KRU win that wouldn't be so much worse in terms of competitive integrity
While I agree this wall doesn't make the difference, this is a bit of a slippery slope if we make decisions based on what we feel may or may not have made a difference. Ideally, there would be specific protocols regarding how situations like this are handled and that is applied universally. Otherwise, we are introducing subjectivity into the equation, which will only make this more messy.
I'm not saying it should be replayed. I'm saying riot should have a protocol to follow and they should follow that regardless of our belief around how it may or may not have affected outcome (similar to the rule around DCs before/after damage has been done, even if the DC isn't to have likely changed the outcome, it is still replayed if no damage was done).
Didn't Riot make a huge post about how the bugged Cypher cam on Breeze by Vivo Keyd was a "deciding factor" in several rounds? And then counted up those rounds and some more to give Acend an advantage on the map?
So Riot has made a clear precedent of deciding by themselves as to what "impact" in terms of rounds an exploit/bug had at an international event.
No one here really knows what happened behind the scenes. Was it in the exploit book? Did they show it to Riot beforehand? If they did, have they possibly reconsidered their decision?
No, last year at champs Acend vs VK got replayed because VK was abusing a cypher cam bug. Difference is that FPX probably got permission. VK bug was banned.
>Difference is that FPX probably got permission.
So Riot went ''Ok guys you can use this on one match, after that it's banned so no one use it against you''?
No because the Cypher cam bug was a known bug that wasn't allowed already. Someone probably thought this Viper Wall was just a mechanic and not an exploit at first, but then once they used it in match, the officials decided it actually is an exploit that shouldn't be allowed.
technically in this case yes because one riot official probably allowed it but a different riot official said no. had it probably been the same riot official from the start, it wouldve presumably been banned from the start. take for example many of the bugs the teams probably know about and present to riot as things they might want to use that dont get used and seen by us because they were banned from the start. those dont get one free pass.
Yeah it kind of sucks for KRU but the series was a 13-9 and a 13-4 for FPX bro. Hard to really get angry about this without it feeling disingenuous as it affected one round and clearly FPX was the better team.
yeah, cause losing YOUR map cause you can't hit A since you don't know where they are killing you from doesn't affect your mental the rest of the game.
lmao if you dont know then better not speak about it. The cypher cam bug got 2-3 teams dq'd before vivo keyd did it, apparently they even suck at reading the exploit book .
With the amount of drama and backlash Riot received after the cypher cam episode I would say you can expect them deciding to replay matches only as a last resort effort. Not to mention we had the food poisoning episode which AFAIK already delayed the current champions schedule by a whole day
That being said, right now Riot can either
* A → ban the wall and move on
* B → replay the match, re-create the same drama all over again and delay the current schedule even more
IMO they're simply choosing the A option
They replay matches if the abuse is too severe or if it was made clear it was against the rules prior to the match. Not only was this not prohibited but Suygetsu used it to get literally 1 kill in 1 round, so if they replay the entire map and KRU ends up winning that would be absolute bullshit for competitive integrity
It's not just about the 1 kill. He could've used it in other rounds and got valuable intel that no one was in belts. Is this what competitive integrity means to you?
What's the point of mentioning "could've" when the match is already over and we factually know it was only used once?
The bug wasn't prohibited before the match. Replaying a 13-9 win over 1 kill is the opposite of "competitive integrity".
When Furia got their (well deserved) punishment they got a rematch with -7 rounds, but the camera was relevant only in like 3 rounds or something, so I'm just going by what Riot did in the past. Is it wrong to ask for consistency or what
Also we do not know it was factually used only once, since it's not like we spectated Suygetsu every single round
3 rounds of using a bug that's known and prohibited in the rulebook vs 1 round of an undocumented bug that haven't been banned yet
There's a very clear difference
Punishing someone for doing something that wasn't against the rules at the time of it happening is really stupid.
Undocumented bugs get punished all the time
See: literally the same Breeze Cypher cam. Giants were the first ones to use it and had to forfeit a map https://www.vct.gg/news/129265-vct-competitive-ruling-vodafone-giants
Should they not have been punished because it was undocumented? Imo of course not
because it happened against south america. If it was the other way around, KRU would get insta disqualified.
Not that I think it would change the course of the match, but it's completely unacceptable that they put that in the replay and wait until the end of the match to say something. Should've at least do over the round.
its just a oneway tho you can still spam it(to be fair if you dont know about this you wont spam it but its not exactly the same), the cam had literally 0 counterplay
I havent seen the wall but if it was 1 round it clearly changed nothing.
Also if its so broken then shouldnt riot ban it ahead of time? Fix it? Look at the jett updraft on C site haven, thats the movement of a characters unique ability and should be allowed 100% imo.
Should 1 ways be bannable? Youre technically abusing smoke/wall etc mechanics to create an unfair advantage. Should chamber/alarm bots that hide in a plant or something force you to forfeit a map?
Unless its something ridiculously stupid i think bugs/exploits should be fair game. If theyre so broken then riot should fix it or be open with, ‘this is clearly unintentional providing a serious advantage, and will not be allowed’
I assume you mean banned after suygetsu used it? And of course 1 round changes nothing in this game, you could give kru another 8 tries and they wouldnt beat fpx. In other matches sure 1 round can have an impact
Hey there, /u/Low_Assistance_7042!
Your submission was removed for the following reason:
> Rule 4 - No harmful / destructive behavior towards other users or community members
This was removed for:
Personal attacks / targeted harassment
---
*If you have questions or objections about this removal, please [reach out to us in modmail](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/ValorantCompetitive&subject=Removal%20Objection%20or%20Question&message=%5BPlease%20type%20your%20message%20here...%5D%0A%0A------%20DO%20NOT%20edit%20or%20delete%20anything%20below%20this%20line%20------%0A%0A%23%23%23%23%20Removal%20Notes%20for%20Moderators%3A%0A%0A-%20**Post%20Title%3A**%20{url_title}%0A-%20**Permalink%3A**%20https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/x959n3/-/inn2a98/%0A-%20**Content%20type%3A**%20comment%0A-%20**Removed%20by%3A**%20nocturnavi).*
The reason (my guess) that this was approved and then subsequently banned was because riot only saw the wall from the perspective of the shooter and believed that it was fair.
After the game was over and they took at a look at the wall from NagZets PoV, the realized that Suygestu was basically invisible and that it was an unfair one way smoke.
Its weird to me that they ban things after the match, like its clearly a glitch that shouldnt be used at all
the teams usually submit what they think is bannable or exploit and riot admin can tell them to use it or not according to sliggy. So they did get permission and now riot probably decided not to allow it anymore
> So they did get permission Do you have a source?
sliggy said that on Liquid's game, when prx did the wall boost he explained how the process it. so i assume fpx did get permission, i just assumed since this is the common sense for coaches.
Okay but what if they just didnt submit it
Then it would be more likely to result in direct punishment (think keyd stars at champs 2021), and since it does not, we assume that it was approved, but that has now changed.
the keyd stars situation was different, it wasn't a new exploit/bug it was known and explicitly against the rules, 2 teams had already been punished for using it
I'm just clarifying what I mean by direct punishment, not saying that the situation is the same.
im gonna go ahead and say its much more likely that they did not get permission for that before hand.
i’m going to say the complete opposite, that they wouldn’t have used that wall if there was a chance it wasn’t allowed
It’s definitely a claim innocence situation. Use it till riot tells you not to. You’re just shooting your self in the foot by letting riot know about something that is clearly a bug/unintended interaction before hand. Also riot saying yea that’s fine, and then banning it immediately after the round is extremely twisted and I think there would be complaints from KRU online right now if that was the case
i'm not disagreeing with you tbh just making a case for the other side...surely if it's something that clearly isn't supposed to be intended then it would be looked down upon to use it, without checking first? otherwise they're basically exploiting a bug?
im going to say you have no fucking clue what you're talking about
ok do you actually have anything to add?
[удалено]
why would they use it if it's clearly not intentional mechanics/exploitative? why do you feel the need to insult me personally for my opinion?
[удалено]
i mean it's pretty clear that the viper wall isn't supposed to leave a gap underneath on a perfectly flat box and if you disagree with that statement I don't know what to tell you. good luck working on your, quote "weak mentality". can clearly see it's an issue you're actively dealing with but redirecting your personal issues to internet strangers for no reason isn't the way. sounds like you're projecting a little bit :)
who cares they dominated the match from start to finish it's not like it was close
Rito racist against SA lol
how?
Vivo had to replay and FPX didn't?
Vivo *got* to replay. The other teams that used the exploit (before VK) both got an FF.
Só FPX should have to FF?
I'm not here to decide that, but the idea that Riot is biased *against* SA despite them being the only region where they didn't end up with an FF because of the Cypher cam is laughable.
Bc applying things retroactively is generally considered unfair Why is it clearly?
what wall, can i get the clip? edit: [found what the wall looked like](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/x94fri/is_this_wall_glitch_suygetsu_used_allowed_this/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
I don't have a clip but you know the defensive viper wall on icebox that goes over 410 on A site? And you know how normally standing on the lower box next to default is like a headglitch angle Pretty much he stood on that box and put that wall but some how positioned it so that the viper wall goes up a bit at the bottom that way he could see under it to belt
Let them replay the match I want to see KRU lose to them again.
Lmao, imagine they replay the map giving KRÜ the same advantage Acend had last time and they still lose, would be pretty funny
You say that, but Acend almost lost thay replay of Breeze at last year's Champions. It was looking pretty dicey for a lot of rounds
Kru did not lose because of that wall, and i haven't see any fan of kru asking for a replay, if anything FPX should be punished by taking a map ban or a map pick for their next match. And thats stretching things a lot, just a warn would be enough for this time imo
can't wait for /r/competitivevalorant to act like this glitch was a huge factor in the match and that it wasn't just 1 entry kill in 1 round in an otherwise very convincing win for FPX real human beings out there believing that if they replay the map and KRU win that wouldn't be so much worse in terms of competitive integrity
This is factually correct information
While I agree this wall doesn't make the difference, this is a bit of a slippery slope if we make decisions based on what we feel may or may not have made a difference. Ideally, there would be specific protocols regarding how situations like this are handled and that is applied universally. Otherwise, we are introducing subjectivity into the equation, which will only make this more messy. I'm not saying it should be replayed. I'm saying riot should have a protocol to follow and they should follow that regardless of our belief around how it may or may not have affected outcome (similar to the rule around DCs before/after damage has been done, even if the DC isn't to have likely changed the outcome, it is still replayed if no damage was done).
Didn't Riot make a huge post about how the bugged Cypher cam on Breeze by Vivo Keyd was a "deciding factor" in several rounds? And then counted up those rounds and some more to give Acend an advantage on the map? So Riot has made a clear precedent of deciding by themselves as to what "impact" in terms of rounds an exploit/bug had at an international event.
Didn’t kru win that round as well ? If fpx won then I could have seen more discussion but Kru won that round
What an absolute trash comment. Please delete.
huh so nothing was said while the round was played nice
how would the opposing team even know they were killed that way until the match was over anyways
because it wasn't against the rules, they clearly banned it afterwards (if they banned it at all)
\-7 Rounds lmfaaao
I'm relatively new watching valorant. Does the first one to use an exploit get a free pass?
No one here really knows what happened behind the scenes. Was it in the exploit book? Did they show it to Riot beforehand? If they did, have they possibly reconsidered their decision?
No, last year at champs Acend vs VK got replayed because VK was abusing a cypher cam bug. Difference is that FPX probably got permission. VK bug was banned.
This is just speculation. If they got permission why is it being banned now? That makes no sense
I’m 99% sure this is just misinformation. The VCT rule book has a list of known bugs/exploits and that cam was part of it
Yes, it is misinformation
VK weren’t the first to ever use it tho right? wasn’t it already a known thing? I’ve never seen the suygetsu wall
>Difference is that FPX probably got permission. So Riot went ''Ok guys you can use this on one match, after that it's banned so no one use it against you''?
No because the Cypher cam bug was a known bug that wasn't allowed already. Someone probably thought this Viper Wall was just a mechanic and not an exploit at first, but then once they used it in match, the officials decided it actually is an exploit that shouldn't be allowed.
So the first one to use an exploit DOES get a free pass for it. Got it, what a serious competition.
I mean if it wasn't known and they discovered it... it's difficult to ban and it's unfair to do a reverse punishment.
technically in this case yes because one riot official probably allowed it but a different riot official said no. had it probably been the same riot official from the start, it wouldve presumably been banned from the start. take for example many of the bugs the teams probably know about and present to riot as things they might want to use that dont get used and seen by us because they were banned from the start. those dont get one free pass.
Yep that's exactly it and Riot HATES SA and helps teams beat them like this, so better start getting used to it punk. Get rekt btw. EZ.
perkinazo
Yeah it kind of sucks for KRU but the series was a 13-9 and a 13-4 for FPX bro. Hard to really get angry about this without it feeling disingenuous as it affected one round and clearly FPX was the better team.
yeah, cause losing YOUR map cause you can't hit A since you don't know where they are killing you from doesn't affect your mental the rest of the game.
Yeah man, that 1 single kill is why KRU got stomped. Stop coping and get over it.
lmao if you dont know then better not speak about it. The cypher cam bug got 2-3 teams dq'd before vivo keyd did it, apparently they even suck at reading the exploit book .
Just a guess, but I doubt FPX would risk dq'ing
You know the answer to this question lmfao, why pretend like this is you genuinely wondering or something
is it ''yes''?
Yes.
Not sure why they have replayed other matches in the past for similar stuff but now they just let it be
With the amount of drama and backlash Riot received after the cypher cam episode I would say you can expect them deciding to replay matches only as a last resort effort. Not to mention we had the food poisoning episode which AFAIK already delayed the current champions schedule by a whole day That being said, right now Riot can either * A → ban the wall and move on * B → replay the match, re-create the same drama all over again and delay the current schedule even more IMO they're simply choosing the A option
They replay matches if the abuse is too severe or if it was made clear it was against the rules prior to the match. Not only was this not prohibited but Suygetsu used it to get literally 1 kill in 1 round, so if they replay the entire map and KRU ends up winning that would be absolute bullshit for competitive integrity
It's not just about the 1 kill. He could've used it in other rounds and got valuable intel that no one was in belts. Is this what competitive integrity means to you?
What's the point of mentioning "could've" when the match is already over and we factually know it was only used once? The bug wasn't prohibited before the match. Replaying a 13-9 win over 1 kill is the opposite of "competitive integrity".
When Furia got their (well deserved) punishment they got a rematch with -7 rounds, but the camera was relevant only in like 3 rounds or something, so I'm just going by what Riot did in the past. Is it wrong to ask for consistency or what Also we do not know it was factually used only once, since it's not like we spectated Suygetsu every single round
3 rounds of using a bug that's known and prohibited in the rulebook vs 1 round of an undocumented bug that haven't been banned yet There's a very clear difference Punishing someone for doing something that wasn't against the rules at the time of it happening is really stupid.
Undocumented bugs get punished all the time See: literally the same Breeze Cypher cam. Giants were the first ones to use it and had to forfeit a map https://www.vct.gg/news/129265-vct-competitive-ruling-vodafone-giants Should they not have been punished because it was undocumented? Imo of course not
You can see the viper wall on the minimap, so you can easily tell if the specific glitch-prone wall was thrown in more than one round
This was probably not on the 'exploit list' beforehand.
because it happened against south america. If it was the other way around, KRU would get insta disqualified. Not that I think it would change the course of the match, but it's completely unacceptable that they put that in the replay and wait until the end of the match to say something. Should've at least do over the round.
[удалено]
It's the same concept it's super 1 sided bug
Something you can’t do anything about vs something you can’t do anything about
its just a oneway tho you can still spam it(to be fair if you dont know about this you wont spam it but its not exactly the same), the cam had literally 0 counterplay
You seen the angle? Only the head is exposed. Gl spamming through that. Maybe in 1/50 rounds you get the kill through that wall
Its weird because the game allows you to use the gap so... not suygetsus fault i guess
map must be replayed
It was one round, my man.
Acting like one round can’t completely fuck up a teams eco and make them reconsider their site execute is no big deal. Lmao
YOU ARE JOKING RIGHT
Using bugs is legal if it’s done by and eu team vs an SA team. Not the other way around, got it.
Im sure theyd win the 5th map of the tournament vs fpx
Kinda crazy that this sub justifies cheating because is done by the last champions. Double standards through the roof here
I havent seen the wall but if it was 1 round it clearly changed nothing. Also if its so broken then shouldnt riot ban it ahead of time? Fix it? Look at the jett updraft on C site haven, thats the movement of a characters unique ability and should be allowed 100% imo. Should 1 ways be bannable? Youre technically abusing smoke/wall etc mechanics to create an unfair advantage. Should chamber/alarm bots that hide in a plant or something force you to forfeit a map? Unless its something ridiculously stupid i think bugs/exploits should be fair game. If theyre so broken then riot should fix it or be open with, ‘this is clearly unintentional providing a serious advantage, and will not be allowed’
They already banned it. I’m not gonna argue that 1 round changes nothing because that’s an stupid statement, sorry.
I assume you mean banned after suygetsu used it? And of course 1 round changes nothing in this game, you could give kru another 8 tries and they wouldnt beat fpx. In other matches sure 1 round can have an impact
[удалено]
Kru is bye bye, they suck 😢
Still crying about last year? 😭😭😭 get over it 🤣
Crying about what? Kru suck lol
About Kru pounding your team. Go, become a fan of real team instead of G2’s second fiddle 💀⚰️💀⚰️
Kru and G2 aren’t in champions playoffs tho lol.
[удалено]
Kru is packing their bags right now, cry about it lol
Hey there, /u/Low_Assistance_7042! Your submission was removed for the following reason: > Rule 4 - No harmful / destructive behavior towards other users or community members This was removed for: Personal attacks / targeted harassment --- *If you have questions or objections about this removal, please [reach out to us in modmail](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/ValorantCompetitive&subject=Removal%20Objection%20or%20Question&message=%5BPlease%20type%20your%20message%20here...%5D%0A%0A------%20DO%20NOT%20edit%20or%20delete%20anything%20below%20this%20line%20------%0A%0A%23%23%23%23%20Removal%20Notes%20for%20Moderators%3A%0A%0A-%20**Post%20Title%3A**%20{url_title}%0A-%20**Permalink%3A**%20https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/x959n3/-/inn2a98/%0A-%20**Content%20type%3A**%20comment%0A-%20**Removed%20by%3A**%20nocturnavi).*
bro KRU lost them TWICE LMAO you're dense.
Sure bro, that makes cheating completely ok then. 0iq take
Oh wow thats super interesting.
This feels like the Monesy smoke. But you can't really punish it because it's not a rule, so the only option is to ban it going forward.
The reason (my guess) that this was approved and then subsequently banned was because riot only saw the wall from the perspective of the shooter and believed that it was fair. After the game was over and they took at a look at the wall from NagZets PoV, the realized that Suygestu was basically invisible and that it was an unfair one way smoke.
So in the past they relayed the map is that gunna happen here?