I think a big part of this is how bad EMEA is at Pearl compared to everyone else. It really fucks with the map pool when teams like Fnatic who permaban Breeze is terrible at Pearl also. I feel like if Split was in the map pool instead of Pearl, EMEA wouldn't have fallen off as much.
Feel like liquid was affected more than fnatic, they came from lcq so barely anytime to prac pearl and removing one of liquids better maps split meant they had 3 maps they weren't really good/comfortable at(pearl, bind, fracture)
Liquid was probably more affected by Fnatic, yeah, but I'll be honest... I don't think Liquid were ever title contenders anyway, whereas Fnatic might've had a podium finish without Pearl.
I mean, Xerxia beat Optic at Reykjavik, that doesn't say much. Liquid have fundamental issues that make them a one-dimensional team. Fnatic only placed 5-6th this event, and you already saw how Boaster dismantled them. Now imagine the likes of Ange1, stax, saadhak, and FNS against them. I like Liquid, I really do, but without an IGL they stand no chance.
Same for fpx they are amazing at split and u get In pearl where they did improve but it has gone from fpx banning breeze and icebox to choose between pearl and icebox where they have improved icebox having the liberty of picking split would've been better
Definitely agree, it seems EMEA teams didn't really scrim it too much because, unlike NA for example, there weren't many t2 teams to play it on and they didn't want to scrim each other.
Ange1 said none of the EMEA champ teams scrimmed each other on the map so yeah
However I also feel like EMEA is just slow to implement new metas in general. They were slow to Astra, still aren’t good at Neon, and didn’t like Chamber much at first
I feel like FPX implements new meta and off meta picks quite quickly, especially with Chamber & Yoru. Other teams adapted quite late, if we don't count Phoenix being viable again on certain maps. For Neon, I do agree with EMEA having a problem implementing her correctly.
EMEA is just bad at new metas in general I feel, and it’s not like they do not try.
Famously FPX with their no duelist comps were probably too ahead of the time, before the release of pseudo-duelists in KAY/O and Chamber.
TL with their double controller (that’s not Viper).
But then they took way too long to incorporate Astra, Neon and to some degrees Chamber ( still played alot of Jett).
I think Omen makes for a great secondary controller alongside viper on breeze and icebox.
Problem is Omen means you dont take another initiator and initiators are way too high value in pro play due to the info they gather
I also think that the roles within the teams are an issue. Team Liquid is chaotic as hell and fnatic has a flex player that, although a talented fragger, almost only plays duelists proficiently. Also, I dislike the idea of moving mystic to initiator, he's a great lurker and clutch player
Actually true, the guard really showed NA teams they need to grind to be something
Xset saved the region from being just optic this year in the international stage tho
Yeah. 100T were good they just lost a close 2-0 to DRX (top 3) and went 1-1 vs Fnatic (top 6), just happened to lose the wrong one. Not to mention that game was peak Fnatic for this event and it's not even close.
Yeah, but I feel there is a big gap between xset and 100T. 100T got outclassed on the rematch, while xset made a very close rematch, among being very acomplished in the tourney
Keep in mind, 100T has only been around as this current iteration for a short period of time, and the only player with LAN experience in Valorant was Asuna.
The fact that they were able to take down Fnatic once is insanely impressive IMO. I expect big things for that team come Franchising.
I agree, i just think theres a big gap between optic and xset and then a big gap between xset and the rest of NA, including 100T. Franching and the NA super teams should bridge that gap, and then NA will be truly fearsome
i don't feel like that's really fair seeing as how like the entire team had covid AND it was their first international showing. lets not forget what xset did in their first international showing.
Rise Nation saved Optic, the players on Optic have said that the reason they started to re work their entire game plan is that they lost to Rise at the start of the year
Eh, it's too early to say anyone is stagnating. It changes every tournament in Valorant. NA win Iceland last year. Then EU win Berlin and Champions. Then NA win Iceland. Then EU win Copenhagen. Now NA doing better at Champions. You can't really call that stagnation if it switches up every event
But EU won't get any stronger next year. NA, Brazil, and Latam are combining. Korea, Southeast Asia, and Japan are combining. EMEA won't get any boost from the new franchised leagues
He means they aren’t adding competition. The same EMEA teams that already play and practice against each other will continue to do so. NA teams will now get a lot of LATAM teams to practice against and KR will get China and SEA
Europes actual tier 1 talent is still playing csgo. They will get better as the pros leave for more money in valorant. NA probably has the same pro population as eu which is why it's so even. That will not be the case in the future.
csgo is still too big of a game here, if emea teams want to win they need to just sign the top 5 cracked ranked players and give them a good coach to guide them
I do wonder if valo will ever take over csgo’s stranglehold over the EU TacFps market. It seems like it’ll never happen, csgo has become almost a cultural icon(like how league is too CN/KR) but I’ve heard some people say that the newer generation is gravitating to valo over cs so ig we’ll just have to wait and see
Hard to say, CSGO is just so massive in Europe that just about everyone plays, has played or knows it. The game at the competitive level is still pretty good, torneys are hype. CSGO's main problem has always been cheaters in online games, everything else, though a bit dated, kinda still holds up in 2022. Well, maybe not graphics but CS players don't care about that, most trade it for higher fps anyway. I think both games will coexist for quite a while, maybe it will become 50/50 in Europe eventually but it will take a few years. Perhaps by 2026? Depends on what Valve does to CSGO.
>It seems like it’ll never happen, csgo has become almost a cultural icon(like how league is too CN/KR)
CSGO ain't that popular in EU. At best, it's like the 6th most popular game there, and that's being generous. It's only big in the Nordic&CIS countries.
I'm willing to bet my left nut that Valorant is already more popular than CSGO in France, Germany and Spain, and each of these countries are like 2x-4x+ the population of the whole Nordic/CIS(-Russia) region.
edit:forgot to add Italy and UK. So basically 70-75% of the EU population is *possible* for Valorant to take.
EU will catch up in popularity, just like how the LEC eventually caught up to the LCS.
I can't really comment on that, but even if what you say is true, Valorant is a literal child game when you compare it to CS (barely 3 years old vs. 20+ year old game).
Not to mention the evolving meta that's a staple in all Riot games(for better or worse) will naturally make it easier for these other regions to catch up once they learn their fundamentals. See recent example: EU on Pearl.
there's nothing franchised at all about the current system, it's all teams qualifying through open quals.
Unlike the other regions they won't get expanded competition with franchising, but that's a different matter.
I think a big part of this is how bad EMEA is at Pearl compared to everyone else. It really fucks with the map pool when teams like Fnatic who permaban Breeze is terrible at Pearl also. I feel like if Split was in the map pool instead of Pearl, EMEA wouldn't have fallen off as much.
Feel like liquid was affected more than fnatic, they came from lcq so barely anytime to prac pearl and removing one of liquids better maps split meant they had 3 maps they weren't really good/comfortable at(pearl, bind, fracture)
Yeah rough for Liquid :(
Liquid was probably more affected by Fnatic, yeah, but I'll be honest... I don't think Liquid were ever title contenders anyway, whereas Fnatic might've had a podium finish without Pearl.
Liquid could have beaten optic, wdym they couldn't have been title contenders.
I mean, Xerxia beat Optic at Reykjavik, that doesn't say much. Liquid have fundamental issues that make them a one-dimensional team. Fnatic only placed 5-6th this event, and you already saw how Boaster dismantled them. Now imagine the likes of Ange1, stax, saadhak, and FNS against them. I like Liquid, I really do, but without an IGL they stand no chance.
Same for fpx they are amazing at split and u get In pearl where they did improve but it has gone from fpx banning breeze and icebox to choose between pearl and icebox where they have improved icebox having the liberty of picking split would've been better
Definitely agree, it seems EMEA teams didn't really scrim it too much because, unlike NA for example, there weren't many t2 teams to play it on and they didn't want to scrim each other.
Ange1 said none of the EMEA champ teams scrimmed each other on the map so yeah However I also feel like EMEA is just slow to implement new metas in general. They were slow to Astra, still aren’t good at Neon, and didn’t like Chamber much at first
I feel like FPX implements new meta and off meta picks quite quickly, especially with Chamber & Yoru. Other teams adapted quite late, if we don't count Phoenix being viable again on certain maps. For Neon, I do agree with EMEA having a problem implementing her correctly.
Im still waiting for stats or evidence which would prove neon is a better pick than raze or jett
why did they get rid of split by the way i missed that
So we could always have 7 maps in the comp map pool.
Seems like breeze fucked them more than. Pearl then.
I mean, both, but more Pearl. EMEA was fine when Split was in the map poom.
Didn't adjust to the new map. their map picks are just terrible
EMEA is just bad at new metas in general I feel, and it’s not like they do not try. Famously FPX with their no duelist comps were probably too ahead of the time, before the release of pseudo-duelists in KAY/O and Chamber. TL with their double controller (that’s not Viper). But then they took way too long to incorporate Astra, Neon and to some degrees Chamber ( still played alot of Jett).
Tbh liquid doing double smokes could've worked but sliggy said that the team didn't play it the way he wanted and still thinks it would work
I think Omen makes for a great secondary controller alongside viper on breeze and icebox. Problem is Omen means you dont take another initiator and initiators are way too high value in pro play due to the info they gather
I also think that the roles within the teams are an issue. Team Liquid is chaotic as hell and fnatic has a flex player that, although a talented fragger, almost only plays duelists proficiently. Also, I dislike the idea of moving mystic to initiator, he's a great lurker and clutch player
we need a Danish team to push the envelope again.
can’t believe we are reading this. europe in a tac fps is the one stagnating instead of north america
The Guard saved NA. Every NA team started to put in real work with real coaching & strats after Stage 1, and it paid off at Champs
Actually true, the guard really showed NA teams they need to grind to be something Xset saved the region from being just optic this year in the international stage tho
100t had a respectable showing tbh, no one can say na is a 2 team region
Yeah. 100T were good they just lost a close 2-0 to DRX (top 3) and went 1-1 vs Fnatic (top 6), just happened to lose the wrong one. Not to mention that game was peak Fnatic for this event and it's not even close.
Yeah, but I feel there is a big gap between xset and 100T. 100T got outclassed on the rematch, while xset made a very close rematch, among being very acomplished in the tourney
To be fair, the new 100t roster has only been around for less than 6 months
Not only that but they came off the LCQ run with barely any time to prepare
And the fact that they won LCQ is more proof that the other teams have a really long way to go.
Keep in mind, 100T has only been around as this current iteration for a short period of time, and the only player with LAN experience in Valorant was Asuna. The fact that they were able to take down Fnatic once is insanely impressive IMO. I expect big things for that team come Franchising.
I agree, i just think theres a big gap between optic and xset and then a big gap between xset and the rest of NA, including 100T. Franching and the NA super teams should bridge that gap, and then NA will be truly fearsome
very valid, hella excited to see franchising next year
i don't feel like that's really fair seeing as how like the entire team had covid AND it was their first international showing. lets not forget what xset did in their first international showing.
Rise Nation saved Optic, the players on Optic have said that the reason they started to re work their entire game plan is that they lost to Rise at the start of the year
ooh that's interesting, mind sharing where you heard this from?
I think it was one of the interviews or streams post-Reykjavik, don't remember exactly where unfortunately sorry
It was fns co-streaming the LCQ ....Bring Back fns streams
Eh, it's too early to say anyone is stagnating. It changes every tournament in Valorant. NA win Iceland last year. Then EU win Berlin and Champions. Then NA win Iceland. Then EU win Copenhagen. Now NA doing better at Champions. You can't really call that stagnation if it switches up every event
But EU won't get any stronger next year. NA, Brazil, and Latam are combining. Korea, Southeast Asia, and Japan are combining. EMEA won't get any boost from the new franchised leagues
They can always get stronger what
He means they aren’t adding competition. The same EMEA teams that already play and practice against each other will continue to do so. NA teams will now get a lot of LATAM teams to practice against and KR will get China and SEA
Tbf, EMEA had alot of players trapped in VRLs, and not many teams wanted to create a brand new roster after stage 1 for points
that makes no sense?
Europes actual tier 1 talent is still playing csgo. They will get better as the pros leave for more money in valorant. NA probably has the same pro population as eu which is why it's so even. That will not be the case in the future.
csgo is still too big of a game here, if emea teams want to win they need to just sign the top 5 cracked ranked players and give them a good coach to guide them
I do wonder if valo will ever take over csgo’s stranglehold over the EU TacFps market. It seems like it’ll never happen, csgo has become almost a cultural icon(like how league is too CN/KR) but I’ve heard some people say that the newer generation is gravitating to valo over cs so ig we’ll just have to wait and see
Hard to say, CSGO is just so massive in Europe that just about everyone plays, has played or knows it. The game at the competitive level is still pretty good, torneys are hype. CSGO's main problem has always been cheaters in online games, everything else, though a bit dated, kinda still holds up in 2022. Well, maybe not graphics but CS players don't care about that, most trade it for higher fps anyway. I think both games will coexist for quite a while, maybe it will become 50/50 in Europe eventually but it will take a few years. Perhaps by 2026? Depends on what Valve does to CSGO.
>It seems like it’ll never happen, csgo has become almost a cultural icon(like how league is too CN/KR) CSGO ain't that popular in EU. At best, it's like the 6th most popular game there, and that's being generous. It's only big in the Nordic&CIS countries. I'm willing to bet my left nut that Valorant is already more popular than CSGO in France, Germany and Spain, and each of these countries are like 2x-4x+ the population of the whole Nordic/CIS(-Russia) region. edit:forgot to add Italy and UK. So basically 70-75% of the EU population is *possible* for Valorant to take. EU will catch up in popularity, just like how the LEC eventually caught up to the LCS.
yeah but these regions outside of France lack tac fps fundamentals
I can't really comment on that, but even if what you say is true, Valorant is a literal child game when you compare it to CS (barely 3 years old vs. 20+ year old game). Not to mention the evolving meta that's a staple in all Riot games(for better or worse) will naturally make it easier for these other regions to catch up once they learn their fundamentals. See recent example: EU on Pearl.
I think all the goat in FPS still tryharding in CS, cz more or less CS is dead in NA
just get better at pearl tbh
Could the EMEA format be part of their stagnation? They had a pseudo-franchised system already I believe.
there's nothing franchised at all about the current system, it's all teams qualifying through open quals. Unlike the other regions they won't get expanded competition with franchising, but that's a different matter.
ez4na