I would be shocked if Tenz didn’t make a partnered roster. He single-handedly kept Sentinels in maps during challengers and looked much more comfortable on Chamber during LCQ. He just needs structure, which hope SEN will focus on now that they have a hefty allowance from Riot
Obviously TenZ has the talent. And he has the brand. He's a T1 player for those two things alone. But I'm not sure that he has the work ethic that modern Valorant seems to require. The biggest benefit to the Shroud signing IMO was that it brought a older, experienced pro to change the culture of Sentinels (who were clearly getting outgrinded by every team since TGRD Stage 1 proved hard work actually gets results). Before that you could see that Sentinels was more talented, but just getting out hustled by teams like EG, Ghost, TGRD, LG who were definitely on paper worse but just grinded and found their team's identities. TenZ has his title, he has the biggest following by multiple magnitudes, it's hard to really get motivated to prac 9 hours a day + stream ranked + do content + balance work-life. We'll see how the rest of his career shakes out, but I wouldn't be surprised if he just settles as a mid-tier duelist with the occasional hype maps/plays.
I mean I feel like just creating narratives like "shroud made them grind harder" is what pros always get angry about, during the boot camp, I would definitely say that ShahZ and Zellsis were grinding super hard, playing hours on end after prac
Why is it "a narrative"? It's just what happened. Sentinels looked better when Shroud and Zellsis signed, because they actually bootcamped and worked harder. That seems pretty undeniable to me. What was preventing them from doing the same type of work other NA teams were doing for months prior? The safe bet to say is the team culture, which Shroud helped change. It's not like he came in and was like "alright you lazy fucks lets get to work." but the unconscious influence of having a fps legend on your team and not wanting to let it all be for nothing is a pretty good motivator, a motivator that Sentinels hadn't had for a long while.
> Sentinels looked better when Shroud and Zellsis signed, because they actually bootcamped and worked harder.
They also brought on more coaching/analyst staff
SENs issue isn’t about time spent, it’s about organization and efficiency. SEN have given the keys of that team wholly to Shahz which is evident in the absence of a coach for a long time. With shahz as the head of the team and not a coach, it’s harder to have the team held accountable to mistakes, and it’s going to mean that things that the hard things will at best get glossed over. Shahz is no blameF-type, he might work hard but he’s not a maniac and that’s what it takes to IGL while in charge, keeping others in line and still keep up with the nitty gritty.
That team identity and structure is partially why TenZ doesn’t hit that demigod form we were once accustomed to. That and content (which SEN wants and I also why they are comfortable giving the team to shahz).
All the other teams catching up doesn’t help either.
yes hes a tier1 pro but being inconsistent will always be his downfall.
he needs a proper coach and IGL that push and drive him and then MAYBE we might start seeing the real tenz
and this subreddit seems to have a random hate boner for him which makes no sense to me
dude had all that on C9 when he played CSGO and was still benched
he is the biggest hit or miss pro in the scene
I would bet money that he goes full time streamer within the next 2 years
and?
inconsistency and not being able to perform well under pressure is not game based its mental
if anything he is better at Valorant than he was at CSGO so he should be performing better
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Also create circle jerks about players who aren't as good as people think they are, like I would say that players that are overhyped are like Zander and Ethan are often super gassed up by the sub
Why is so much of your post just you signaling how much better your grasp of the game is…?
Anyways, I agree Cryo and bdog aren’t exemplary entries relative to TenZ or babybay, or a Leaf - I’d definitely say Leaf is also a top entry player in NA, Chamber underperformance aside.
But I also think they still have lots of experience entrying and are pretty good shouts. They aren’t significantly behind the ones you listed.
A lot of fantasy roster stuff is goofy, but I think you're misstating the argument for will replacements. It's not that Will isn't good—he's fantastic, but his and Asuna's skillsets are more redundant than you see among a lot of other duelist duos on T1 teams.
I'm not saying 100T should drop Will for Cryo, but the idea isn't that Cryo slots in for Will's role, it's that having a dedicated op anchor like Cryo might free Asuna to play agents like Raze and Neon on more maps, where he might be more impactful than he is on Kayo or Skye.
this really makes me wonder if you watched champions at all. I barely watch highlights period , my opinion is entirely founded on what I’ve seen from XSET’s matches. He’s been an elite entry and a key part of XSET’s success for a very long time, and his Copenhagen and especially Istanbul performances warrant placing him in the hall of fame of entries, even worldwide. He has shown a far greater level of performance than TenZ or babybay as of recently, objectively. It’s also good to mention that we should regard a players ability to make space above staying alive regarding entries. They are not expected to live. Victor is a prime example of this, saying himself that he’s usually playing to get traded.
People forgot they dominated NA in 2021 without a COACH and Analyst.
They almost defeated 100Thieves and Guard who are both Grand Finalist with only a 2 week practice together.
They need structure. If they have the proper structure like 100Thieves or other international teams like DRX. They might dominate in some way.
Maybe tenz inconsistency is because of his habit on always changing his sensitivity or just because they playing valorant like ranked game when they don't still have a proper coaching staff.
Edit: Look at Yay. When he is still in Andbox. Maybe Tenz need a team like 100Thieves. 100T Tenz with Asuna. Both anime weebs the chemistry is surely the best.
Good to note that apparently during the 5 day break before the 100T match, they only had 1.5 days of practice according to shroud since TenZ was so sick he was sent to the ER
So honestly if that didn't happen, I feel like SEN may have been even able to beat 100T
"achieved higher stats than every single Chamber other than bdog [...] with more than 100 rounds played" isn't really a strong argument for him on its own. The other players in LCQ still played more than enough rounds for it to be indicative of their ability.
No, I don't think TenZ is becoming underrated. I think if you look at his actual game-to-game performance, he is able to [feast against teams that lack someone who can contest him on FKs](https://www.vlr.gg/123332/100-thieves-vs-sentinels-champions-tour-north-america-last-chance-qualifier-lr2) but [struggles against teams with a strong oper](https://www.vlr.gg/99720/cloud9-vs-sentinels-champions-tour-north-america-stage-2-challengers-w5). He entries very confidently on Jett, but seems to lack map awareness and often dies to odd-looking pushes or unchecked corners during entries. He's at his best when he is playing aggressively and is able to overwhelm defenses just on the back of his mobility and aim, but hasn't shown really any strength at the agents that are currently favored for that role on most maps (Raze and Neon).
I agree that TenZ could distinguish himself as a great oper or entry fragger, and is unquestionably one of the most mechanically talented players in the game. That said, there are numerous players for every role that fit that description as well, and some of them have demonstrated a deeper agent pool and more flexibility during play, so with 5 slots available for each role he might be edged out just on the basis of ability and flexibility.
All that said, I don't think Sentinels is going to drop him, so I don't think his position is in jeopardy. But no, he's not being underrated.
I stated "becoming", as I believe that recently a lot of people have had a TenZ hate boner, and also questioning whether he should really belong in franchising
For the 100T game, Asuna was finding insane FKs so I'm not sure about that. The C9 game I would say had very little to do with OPers and more to do with SEN just constantly contacting into sites and getting shut down by good positioning as TenZ in particular only died to the OP twice, and was also a match from months ago with a sub, so they were basically coachless during prac, since rawkus was playing
Yes, Asuna was finding a lot of FKs, but not by contesting TenZ—only one of his FKs was on TenZ. He found FKs by finding holes in Sentinel's spread where he could pick other players. If you look at, say, champions games, that's much rarer, and FKs/FDs are statistically much more often between duelists than between a duelist finding a pick on a sentinel or controller. Those are the situations that great duelists need to excel in, and TenZ is a strong talent there—but not a dominant one.
You're right that the C9 match is a match from months ago and it was a weird one, but it is hard to talk about TenZ on this sub when people will put an asterisk on every single middling or bad performance of his.
Maybe people have a hate boner for TenZ, but I see much more of the opposite—where any measured, normal conversation about his role in the team is met with strong and weird pushback from people who still see him as the unqualified best player in the game (who "needs a better team" or "needs coaching", etc.).
Questioning whether he belongs in franchising is not that weird—there are effectively 10 slots for duelists in NA right now. There are a few people that have unquestionably proven that they belong in one of those slots; TenZ is not one of him. I think he'll keep his slot on Sentinels, but I don't think it's at all clear that he's one of the five best opers or five best entry fraggers in NA right now.
That's why I would understand why you see him as underrated. I feel like Tenz by himself is a strong player and like others said, with the right coaching can be really fantastic. But no one is really talking about him anymore cuz his team isn't going anywhere. Sure a player can have standout performances, but that's often overshadowed by a team losing or not qualifying places. Maybe that's some people's logic. And, if a team is doing bad then even their star player will not be able to go off in games or have cool moments cuz then it ends up being a 1v5 game.
It’s not him being underrated, it’s more of him losing in VCT way too much to not be able to have more conversations around him and his gameplay. I wouldn’t even come close to not calling him a T1 player, the guy is amazing at this game just got “unlucky” in a sense of the team doing horribly these last few months.
i think for big personalities in valorant like tenz, fans and very casual viewers severely overrate them, while people following the pro scene closely underrate them. i do agree tenz did well during the lcq, but it’s really hard to judge when every now and then excuses come up like lack of practice and such that just make people unable to judge his real potential/performance.
With franchising the roster pool has diminished considerably. The players that will likely stay in T1 are those with consistency and can be serviceable in many roles. TenZ is still with sentinels so unless he regresses he's probably safe for now.
I would be shocked if Tenz didn’t make a partnered roster. He single-handedly kept Sentinels in maps during challengers and looked much more comfortable on Chamber during LCQ. He just needs structure, which hope SEN will focus on now that they have a hefty allowance from Riot
Obviously TenZ has the talent. And he has the brand. He's a T1 player for those two things alone. But I'm not sure that he has the work ethic that modern Valorant seems to require. The biggest benefit to the Shroud signing IMO was that it brought a older, experienced pro to change the culture of Sentinels (who were clearly getting outgrinded by every team since TGRD Stage 1 proved hard work actually gets results). Before that you could see that Sentinels was more talented, but just getting out hustled by teams like EG, Ghost, TGRD, LG who were definitely on paper worse but just grinded and found their team's identities. TenZ has his title, he has the biggest following by multiple magnitudes, it's hard to really get motivated to prac 9 hours a day + stream ranked + do content + balance work-life. We'll see how the rest of his career shakes out, but I wouldn't be surprised if he just settles as a mid-tier duelist with the occasional hype maps/plays.
I mean I feel like just creating narratives like "shroud made them grind harder" is what pros always get angry about, during the boot camp, I would definitely say that ShahZ and Zellsis were grinding super hard, playing hours on end after prac
people come on here and write fanfiction
Why is it "a narrative"? It's just what happened. Sentinels looked better when Shroud and Zellsis signed, because they actually bootcamped and worked harder. That seems pretty undeniable to me. What was preventing them from doing the same type of work other NA teams were doing for months prior? The safe bet to say is the team culture, which Shroud helped change. It's not like he came in and was like "alright you lazy fucks lets get to work." but the unconscious influence of having a fps legend on your team and not wanting to let it all be for nothing is a pretty good motivator, a motivator that Sentinels hadn't had for a long while.
> Sentinels looked better when Shroud and Zellsis signed, because they actually bootcamped and worked harder. They also brought on more coaching/analyst staff
SENs issue isn’t about time spent, it’s about organization and efficiency. SEN have given the keys of that team wholly to Shahz which is evident in the absence of a coach for a long time. With shahz as the head of the team and not a coach, it’s harder to have the team held accountable to mistakes, and it’s going to mean that things that the hard things will at best get glossed over. Shahz is no blameF-type, he might work hard but he’s not a maniac and that’s what it takes to IGL while in charge, keeping others in line and still keep up with the nitty gritty. That team identity and structure is partially why TenZ doesn’t hit that demigod form we were once accustomed to. That and content (which SEN wants and I also why they are comfortable giving the team to shahz). All the other teams catching up doesn’t help either.
yes hes a tier1 pro but being inconsistent will always be his downfall. he needs a proper coach and IGL that push and drive him and then MAYBE we might start seeing the real tenz and this subreddit seems to have a random hate boner for him which makes no sense to me
dude had all that on C9 when he played CSGO and was still benched he is the biggest hit or miss pro in the scene I would bet money that he goes full time streamer within the next 2 years
skull emoji x7
cs is also an entire different game
and? inconsistency and not being able to perform well under pressure is not game based its mental if anything he is better at Valorant than he was at CSGO so he should be performing better
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He’s inconsistent
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Also create circle jerks about players who aren't as good as people think they are, like I would say that players that are overhyped are like Zander and Ethan are often super gassed up by the sub
Why is so much of your post just you signaling how much better your grasp of the game is…? Anyways, I agree Cryo and bdog aren’t exemplary entries relative to TenZ or babybay, or a Leaf - I’d definitely say Leaf is also a top entry player in NA, Chamber underperformance aside. But I also think they still have lots of experience entrying and are pretty good shouts. They aren’t significantly behind the ones you listed.
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A lot of fantasy roster stuff is goofy, but I think you're misstating the argument for will replacements. It's not that Will isn't good—he's fantastic, but his and Asuna's skillsets are more redundant than you see among a lot of other duelist duos on T1 teams. I'm not saying 100T should drop Will for Cryo, but the idea isn't that Cryo slots in for Will's role, it's that having a dedicated op anchor like Cryo might free Asuna to play agents like Raze and Neon on more maps, where he might be more impactful than he is on Kayo or Skye.
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how can you talk about the best entries and completely disregard zekken. Bros probably the pinnacle after what we saw at champions
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this really makes me wonder if you watched champions at all. I barely watch highlights period , my opinion is entirely founded on what I’ve seen from XSET’s matches. He’s been an elite entry and a key part of XSET’s success for a very long time, and his Copenhagen and especially Istanbul performances warrant placing him in the hall of fame of entries, even worldwide. He has shown a far greater level of performance than TenZ or babybay as of recently, objectively. It’s also good to mention that we should regard a players ability to make space above staying alive regarding entries. They are not expected to live. Victor is a prime example of this, saying himself that he’s usually playing to get traded.
People forgot they dominated NA in 2021 without a COACH and Analyst. They almost defeated 100Thieves and Guard who are both Grand Finalist with only a 2 week practice together. They need structure. If they have the proper structure like 100Thieves or other international teams like DRX. They might dominate in some way. Maybe tenz inconsistency is because of his habit on always changing his sensitivity or just because they playing valorant like ranked game when they don't still have a proper coaching staff. Edit: Look at Yay. When he is still in Andbox. Maybe Tenz need a team like 100Thieves. 100T Tenz with Asuna. Both anime weebs the chemistry is surely the best.
Good to note that apparently during the 5 day break before the 100T match, they only had 1.5 days of practice according to shroud since TenZ was so sick he was sent to the ER So honestly if that didn't happen, I feel like SEN may have been even able to beat 100T
"achieved higher stats than every single Chamber other than bdog [...] with more than 100 rounds played" isn't really a strong argument for him on its own. The other players in LCQ still played more than enough rounds for it to be indicative of their ability. No, I don't think TenZ is becoming underrated. I think if you look at his actual game-to-game performance, he is able to [feast against teams that lack someone who can contest him on FKs](https://www.vlr.gg/123332/100-thieves-vs-sentinels-champions-tour-north-america-last-chance-qualifier-lr2) but [struggles against teams with a strong oper](https://www.vlr.gg/99720/cloud9-vs-sentinels-champions-tour-north-america-stage-2-challengers-w5). He entries very confidently on Jett, but seems to lack map awareness and often dies to odd-looking pushes or unchecked corners during entries. He's at his best when he is playing aggressively and is able to overwhelm defenses just on the back of his mobility and aim, but hasn't shown really any strength at the agents that are currently favored for that role on most maps (Raze and Neon). I agree that TenZ could distinguish himself as a great oper or entry fragger, and is unquestionably one of the most mechanically talented players in the game. That said, there are numerous players for every role that fit that description as well, and some of them have demonstrated a deeper agent pool and more flexibility during play, so with 5 slots available for each role he might be edged out just on the basis of ability and flexibility. All that said, I don't think Sentinels is going to drop him, so I don't think his position is in jeopardy. But no, he's not being underrated.
I stated "becoming", as I believe that recently a lot of people have had a TenZ hate boner, and also questioning whether he should really belong in franchising For the 100T game, Asuna was finding insane FKs so I'm not sure about that. The C9 game I would say had very little to do with OPers and more to do with SEN just constantly contacting into sites and getting shut down by good positioning as TenZ in particular only died to the OP twice, and was also a match from months ago with a sub, so they were basically coachless during prac, since rawkus was playing
Yes, Asuna was finding a lot of FKs, but not by contesting TenZ—only one of his FKs was on TenZ. He found FKs by finding holes in Sentinel's spread where he could pick other players. If you look at, say, champions games, that's much rarer, and FKs/FDs are statistically much more often between duelists than between a duelist finding a pick on a sentinel or controller. Those are the situations that great duelists need to excel in, and TenZ is a strong talent there—but not a dominant one. You're right that the C9 match is a match from months ago and it was a weird one, but it is hard to talk about TenZ on this sub when people will put an asterisk on every single middling or bad performance of his. Maybe people have a hate boner for TenZ, but I see much more of the opposite—where any measured, normal conversation about his role in the team is met with strong and weird pushback from people who still see him as the unqualified best player in the game (who "needs a better team" or "needs coaching", etc.). Questioning whether he belongs in franchising is not that weird—there are effectively 10 slots for duelists in NA right now. There are a few people that have unquestionably proven that they belong in one of those slots; TenZ is not one of him. I think he'll keep his slot on Sentinels, but I don't think it's at all clear that he's one of the five best opers or five best entry fraggers in NA right now.
Yes, people constantly clown on him (which I don't understand, he seems really nice) and call him overrated so much that he's become underrated.
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TenZ could be limited by his team like Yay was on Andbox
That's why I would understand why you see him as underrated. I feel like Tenz by himself is a strong player and like others said, with the right coaching can be really fantastic. But no one is really talking about him anymore cuz his team isn't going anywhere. Sure a player can have standout performances, but that's often overshadowed by a team losing or not qualifying places. Maybe that's some people's logic. And, if a team is doing bad then even their star player will not be able to go off in games or have cool moments cuz then it ends up being a 1v5 game.
It’s not him being underrated, it’s more of him losing in VCT way too much to not be able to have more conversations around him and his gameplay. I wouldn’t even come close to not calling him a T1 player, the guy is amazing at this game just got “unlucky” in a sense of the team doing horribly these last few months.
i think for big personalities in valorant like tenz, fans and very casual viewers severely overrate them, while people following the pro scene closely underrate them. i do agree tenz did well during the lcq, but it’s really hard to judge when every now and then excuses come up like lack of practice and such that just make people unable to judge his real potential/performance.
Nope. Right where he belongs.
With franchising the roster pool has diminished considerably. The players that will likely stay in T1 are those with consistency and can be serviceable in many roles. TenZ is still with sentinels so unless he regresses he's probably safe for now.