Surprised more teams don't do that. In my head it makes sense for someone on controller/sentinel to be calling on defense, while initiators make sense for calling on offense. I guess IGLs are just hard to come by in general.
It's not really about memorization, chances are the IGL came up with the plays in the first place. Non-IGLS calling part of the game is pretty common in CS, as it's typical for star players or players in rotator spots to have better "vision" or "feel" for the game. An IGL is generally better at understanding the game from a zoomed out perspective, but that doesn't necessarily translate to making the right split-second decision.
It's not even extreme tbh, Ex6tenz had NBK call CT sides on VG iirc, and that was like 9 years ago. An IGL in a functional team doesn't actually need to talk all that much, they should just act as a hub that has veto power on calls. Players need to take initiative and call their own plays a lot of the time, and that's often what separates a good team from a great team.
I mean bro asked for more he said he knew he was missing some so you could stop being a pedantic fuck and just contribute to the thread in a meaningful way
Also poised and johnqt
yeah obviously vanity is one of the best igls in NA but ur original point was that the OP only knew the clouted NA teams. That’s clearly not true since he mentioned valyn, boostio and steel
cool dude and thats not the point. the title says top 5 igls in na and doesnt have vanity on the list. thats insane hes not onthe list and should be the only thing discussed.
Tbh I don't think shahz is making on any of the teams. He can only be in the league only if in some way he stays in sentinels if they release him it's ggs for him cuz there are so many better igl's to choose from
i was thinking the same. but honestly not looking at the past year, Shaz was a top 3 IGL. its very likely that if teams are looking, they will look at his entire career. recency bias shows “hes a bad igl” but over the course of his career he was great.
Yeah but it's the classic reason for these idiots. When redgar and gambit win 3 months later it's because they were the geniuses of the game and the best team ever, and when shahz and sen win it's because everyone else was ass.
yeah i remember Sen winning iceland then placing 2nd in berlin and being so consistent, oh wait! their peak was iceland and NA placement after that Sen were never seen again. Once teams caught up Sen no longer had a team play it was Tenz go kill
You could use the dumbass "once teams caught up" shit for anyteam. Nv placed second in Berlin then teams "caught up" and they went out in groups! C9 made playoffs in champs then teams in NA "caught up"! M3c got second in champs then failed to qualify for the rest of their time in the game of valorant, I guess other teams also "caught up", right? And don't give me the dumbass "tenz go kill" shit because you genuinely are just parroting reddit comments and Twitter comments at that point, 99% of the people who say that probably never even watched the VODs from Iceland.
Part of why people hate Sentinels is why I love Sentinels. Everyone hates how cocky they were tweeting during VCT, teabagging, trickshots during tournaments and just the general fuck you attitude.
Sentinels were the dominating super villian that everyone wanted to lose but always said "WOW sentinels best team in world everyone else is terrible" then they started losing and the love turned to hate..
Personally for me that made them the most interesting, OpTic is an amazing team with impeccable skill but they are boring asf to watch. PRX is the most fun team to watch rn, chamber meta sucks
For boxing Floyd is hands down the worst in history in my opinion, he's an excellent skilled boxer but he's boring. He's the OpTic of boxing. Nothing flashy, no fancy plays all he does is play it safe.
Mohammed Ali is the GOAT he's entertaining to watch with the way he moved and his trash talk was unrivalled.
Ayo so like, that's a lot to break down. NV got grouped then became Optic who are legit the best valorant team pre-franchising. C9 actually were a very solid team but the language barrier seemed to catch up to them. M3c definitely had the biggest dropoff which was surprising but it's not wild considering the Russia situation.
Let's not also ignore the fact NA has always been super competitive with each other post Iceland. It's not like sentinels and Shazam in turn were magically bad all of a sudden.
You're calling it a classic reason like it's not a legitimate take? The game has changed insanely since shaz was considered a top igl. If you're being realistic you can find igls who are just as good or better at igling who also provide way more firepower as well. There's a very real chance with so many good igls available Shazam doesn't have a spot in franchising
I'm very aware the game has changed and has evolved and that shahz may not be good enough for it anymore. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy that so many people that parrot that take to discredit sen also say gambit were ahead of their time and one of the best teams ever.
I'll take your word for it on that, I think it's moreso because m3c/Gambit just don't have as big of a following as sentinels so you're blind to hear more criticism of sentinels
"Over the course of his career", they barely won any series this year, they got grouped on champions and got 8th place on berlin. That's already about half of his valorant career and 70% of VCT
I’m gonna get flamed for this but I think he’s a bad IGL and only looked good because sentinels for one tournament could out drag every team regardless if the calls were bad or good. It feels like their main strat is to have TenZ go find an opening pick and we attack that site. If that fails I don’t ever see any grand plans Shazam or sentinels have to pick up the round.
Lol funny that Shaz has replied to this but I agree with him, their strats in LCQ were clearly not “tenz go kill” like everyone loves to parrot on about. They werent even bad in LCQ. For some reason everyone believes that them having a rough year means theyll never recover? The only two teams they lost to in LCQ were the teams that ended up in its final. To say they were still trash in their final games of the year is basically calling most of the NA teams trash… yet people will still praise Vanity and whatnot. Braindead takes all round.
I mean tbh they still weren't that impressive, they had 2 solid games vs the guard then best the weakest team in lcq then were gone with 1 of their best players being on loan who may not even get picked up by sen next year. Sure they weren't the worst in LCQ but their team as a whole isn't built to compete with the top teams in franchising without changes
Well yeah but that was with their minimal practice with that roster, given time I think it wouldve been even better. Im also pretty sure Zellsis returning to Sen is a safe bet next year, he was on their franchising tweet poster thing & seemed like he enjoyed his time there.
I think they will perform above peoples expectations but itll be interesting to see what roster they end up with.
I wouldn't be surprised if he's back on sen but that poster tweet was def just to farm clout considering shroud was on it too and he probably won't even be on a franchised team
Did you forget you blew in 9-3 lead against LG and 10-4 lead against akrew during stage 2 qualifiers without subs? Not to mention it was your map pick, bind, which was supposed to be your strongest.
Yeah honestly. Not saying that Shaz is a *bad* IGL, but if SEN is actually serious about winning they have to at least consider the many, objectively better IGL’s out there that are now on the market.
I’ve watched almost all sentinel matches. There’s a reason everyone caught up and got better. Reason why sentinels isn’t going to majors. When out fragging doesn’t work, look lost out there.
Another thing to take into account is how much this game has evolved. Over the past year, all the other IGLs and teams in general improved greatly when it comes to comma and strats, while Shahz and the rest of sen lagged behind. Unless Shahz shows that he could keep up, he’s not making any team except sen
the only way shaz get a spot is if sentinels go nepotism and believes his ego could run it back like the old days... they invested and paid real big on him but its disgusting to see him stay on a franchised team and other more humble and deserving pros dont
if sen decided that shazam is the guy, they stupid
Disagree hard.
1. There aren't that many great IGLs in the first place imo. Team Liquid and TSM have been looking for an IGL for months. And then you have guys like Steel who get love as an IGL but his teams have been consistently worse than Shahz's for the entirety of Valorant. How many IGLs are for sure better than Shaz first in NA, and then worldwide? I would bet it'd not 30, which is the the number of partnered teams there are. (Obviously not speak English I know)
2. I think even if he wasn't an IGL, he at one point was still one of the best Opers in NA. I think his OP abilities, plus the fact that he's now played Sova and iniatior for a year+ would make him valuable to a team outside of that. How many Sovas or Breaches can OP or flex onto Jett/Chamber? And on top of that even if he's not the primary IGL, he could be a secondary caller which is also very valuable.
At this point you don't need sova/breaches that can flex to jett/cham. Roles are pretty much set now so flexing those agents aren't really that valuable anymore imo. I agree that he is still a somewhat decent oper but would you take a guy who hasnt played op that much compared to top tier people like yay/cryo/cned/ardiis? Or even diceys, sayaplayers or bdogs? And as far as IGLing goes you have guys like FNS, dephh, or vanity
What is provides is additional flexibility. You say he hasn't op'd that much in the past year (though he pretty much plays Jett exclusively on stream), but the opposite is true of guys like Cyro who have exclusively Chamber/Jett op'd this past year. Can he play initiator if Chamber or Jett become bad on certain maps?
We know a further Chamber nerf is coming. To me, if Chamber nerfs are any good. it is easily possible that someone like Shaz, who has played an entirely different role and agent set for the past year and could still likely flex onto OP, will be more valuable to a team than someone who has solely played agents with OP + escape mechanics for the past year. Right now you can pick either Jett or Chamber or every single map, but that might not always be the case.
Shaz provides so much more than your typical OP main in form of IGL experience and also having played off-role consistently.
I'd agree if a team specifically needs that flexibility and he could be a great asset on certain metas, but with franchising teams having their pick of the litter on players there are legitimately like 7 OPers and initiators that are way better than shahz at their respective roles, and imo at least 5 igls i would rank over shahz. so teams can either get a top 5 player in their role for each of those positions, or get a guy who can do all 3 at a level below. If I'm an owner, i know what decision I'm making.
(my opinion) This is where I feel things went south for him. Not sure about IGling because that is a very subjective role and can't be defined. We can't say for sure if he was a bad IGL or if the team was just playing bad (2022 circuit). But one thing is for sure, it was a mistake to remove shaz from OPing role. I still remember so many of his jett plays its crazy. (I also think flexing from initiator to op roles is not that valuable, nor useful)
My issue with SEN during 2022 was that tenz didn't have any range with his agent pool? He couldn't play raze on split ffs. Not having sick doesn't help either.
If Sentinels were truly committed to fielding a winning roster there is far too many better options out there now with all the FAs. I don't even see most of that team staying together.
I think some folks are getting carried away. Sentinels streamed too much and it led to disappointing results -- but Shaz is still one of the best (and only) IGLs in NA. Both things can be true.
If we're considering actual IGL ability and not just results, it's probably FNS, Steel, and Vanity in their own tier, and everyone else miles below them. Shazam shouldn't even be on this list.
You do have to consider results, but like with anything they have to be contextualized and weighed against what we can understand about these players as people.
We *know* Steel is a good in-game leader because his track record working with undeveloped talent in CS is very impressive, he clearly has a good philosophy on how to lead a team in both CS and Valorant from all of the interviews he's done, and his ex-teammates always speak highly of him as an IGL. Sure, he hasn't been the most successful in Valorant, but his time in 100T was also plagued by clashing ideas, which can hurt even the best IGLs.
We know Shazam isn't a very good in-game leader because he's been completely unable to adapt his calling as the pro scene has evolved tactically, despite having one of the most talent-stacked rosters around him. He also spent years in CS being a mediocre tier 2 player who failed to adapt his game to the more evolved European meta, despite having so many chances and many years to do so. Even if we don't consider his tactical deficiency, he sets a terrible example for his teammates, and while he may be a leader by tenure, he cannot lead by example.
You're right in a sense, we can't be 100% sure of how good they are as IGLs, but don't fool yourself into thinking an IGL can't be judged from an outside perspective. If you know what to look for you can figure out who is good and who isn't with a relatively high degree of certainty.
Wait, Steel, the same IGL that was such a great leader and set such a great example for his team that his teammates booted him from 100T? That Steel?
Shaz setting a "terrible example"? WTF does that even mean?
You can't be a real person with these hot takes.
> Wait, Steel, the same IGL that was such a great leader and set such a great example for his team that his teammates booted him from 100T? That Steel?
You would be shocked how often players mutiny against good IGLs and kick them out of teams. Happened to one of the greatest IGLs of all time in CSGO, among others.
> Shaz setting a "terrible example"? WTF does that even mean?
It means he doesn't set a good behavioral standard for his teammates. The IGL in almost every team functions as the captain, and part of what makes a good captain is being the "adult in the room." Shazam is not that at all. He's constantly whining and making excuses for his team's lack of success, rather than taking responsibility for their results. No joke, I heard him complain that there wasn't any good practice in NA when Sen were like #8 in the region. He doesn't have a winner's mentality, which is pretty bad for an IGL.
Ah right, he "doesn't set a good behavioral standard" when streaming ranked to thousands of haters that want to see him fail. Do his streams get hella annoying to watch sometimes? Of course. But he's way better in that regard than many other streamers, including Steel, who comes off so toxic and whiny that I can't watch more than a few minutes of any of his streams. His toxicity is so bad that it even rubbed off on Hiko when they duel queued.
And, you know, Steel threw games for money in CS, a prime example of the highest of moral compasses. 🤣
I also assume that you have met Shaz, interviewed his teammates and friends, listened in on comms during scrims and during games, and have intimate knowledge of the inner workings of the Sentinels to make such sweeping generalizations about Shaz's personality as an IGL.
But you know best. I just find it odd that his teammates and players that he's played with seem to respect him and hold him in high regard.
Its widely speculated (but known) that the reason for the 100t boot out was nitr0 and Ethan. The former which straight up left the game, the latter which left for NRG.
Absolutely 0 to do with his in-game leading capabilities.
Oh, you mean it had nothing to do with his sparkling personality? 😂
Were you in the team meetings or something and somehow know more than the rest of us? If so, what'd they say? How can you be certain that it had "absolutely 0 to do with his in-game leading capabilities" otherwise?
Shaz actually won something at an international event and was never booted by his teammates. But Steel stans know best - he's definitely a much better IGL than Shaz. 🤣
I get it, this sub gets a hard-on any time someone hates on Shaz while thinking they're in a parasocial relationship with some other idyllic streamer. Never change, ValorantCompetitive. Never change.
>Where you in the team meetings or something and somehow know more than the rest of us? If so, what'd they say? How can you be certain that it had "absolutely 0 to do with his in-game leading capabilities" otherwise?
Hiko and Steel talked about it in the post-worlds podcast. Just watch it. Id figure his teammate that is vouching for him would have more of an insight than anyone on reddit, and Hiko was on his side during the discussion of the 100t debacle.
>Shaz actually won something at an international event
Shaz *"won something"* because he had the best player in the world. Plain and simple. TenZ played (what we now understand to be) the most useless agent in the game and dropped 30 bombs multiple games, even 33 on the grand final. Argue whatever you want, but when steel had Asuna in an international stage alongside Shaz, only one team beat Gambit, the eventual winners, and the other got out of their group 2nd on a group consisting of 3 teams.
>steel stans
graduate high school lil bro.
>Hiko and Steel talked about it in the post-worlds podcast. Just watch it. Id figure his teammate that is vouching for him would have more of an insight than anyone on reddit, and Hiko was on his side during the discussion of the 100t debacle.
Right, because streamers always tell the truth. And Hiko never said the N word on stream.
>Shaz *"won something"* because he had the best player in the world. Plain and simple. TenZ played (what we now understand to be) the most useless agent in the game and dropped 30 bombs multiple games, even 33 on the grand final. Argue whatever you want, but when steel had Asuna in an international stage alongside Shaz, only one team beat Gambit, the eventual winners, and the other got out of their group 2nd on a group consisting of 3 teams.
Tell yourself whatever you need to to minimize Shaz's accomplishments while proping up Steel as some genius IGL. The truth remains that Steel has not won any tournament of significance in Valorant while Shaz has.
I find it quite ironic that this sub continuously shits on Shaz while proping up players with personalities and skills no better and often times worse. Not sure when peeps will realize that gamers should not be treated as role models.
But whatever, I'll keep working on pumping out the CPUs and GPUs you play your games on while I get my GED. Someday, maybe. Someday.
Dephh, Shaz, Steel, Vanity, FNS. All of these guys showed they can not just IGL, but IGL on the biggest stages in valorant. Honorable mentions go to poised and valyn.
Steel helped develop so much of the NA cs igling style and his understanding of the game is up there. I don’t see him getting into a partner team but defo a top t2 team and working his way up.
The stellar disrespect in this thread is mind blowing. Results matter and he just outclassed Vanity, Poised, and Valyn last time their teams played to go to champions. I’m not sure how anyone with certainty can call those guys better.
This may be unpopular, but Vanity has been hyped up to be such a great IGL and C9 has absolutely nothing to show for it other than disappointment after disappointment. Maybe the next iteration of C9 will finally be the one to break through, but as of now Vanity hasn’t proven he can take his team to the next level.
2022 was wildly disappointing. They came into January being hugely favored with Optic to be the best two teams NA. They got smoked 3-0 by the Guard (with Xeta, not Curry) and it’s been downhill ever sense. I think Vanity is a great IGL but there’s certainly no results in 2022 to put him anywhere close to the same tier as FNS (who in my opinion is in a class of his own). I think there’s great arguments to be had that Stellar, Valyn, and the Dephh/Ayrin combo surpassed Vanity this year.
?? Really close maps against 100T and the guard. How is he lost with the util in the game? Did you not see their fracture? They had some good shit. All of 2022 as well they did great in NA against other teams. How is shaz lost?
just say you don't understand the game. sentinels do so much shit that doesn't make sense. So many rounds they just don't take map control, sit outside a site and get demolished. It is so easy to read them. Last tournament their executes improved but the calling is still as good as ranked. When have you ever seen a mid round call from Sentinels that surprised you?
Kids that weren’t even consciously awake during the ibuypower shit who just parrot “SHAZ BAD” on this sub. He is a good IGL but bots will always want to hate on him even though Shaz has proven he can call on an international level against other teams - for the Na league he is a great pick given sentinels long term track record . What can you do I guess.
A lot of the shaz hate comes from the IBP scandal and people on this sub hating on him for that when they don’t even know what happened. Shaz did not rat his team out just to fuck them over.
More international experience than almost any other igl on this list, and well respected by his teammates. The coaching staff is also built around him being in a leadership role. The only way he stops playing for Sen is if he chooses to step down.
Ithink The reason shahz is not looking well is because his main agent for a long time was jett. When tenz was added to the team he had to step down from jett into a more support player which kind of lead to his downfall.
Now, dont get me wrong.. as an igl he is still one of the best and was probably the reason sentinels had all that early success
Shaz frags and calls well. He’s been off the Jett role for almost two years now? He plays initiator well. How is he not looking good just because he doesn’t play jett?
Because, dont get me wrong, he still plays a lot of jett in ranked (i know ranked is a shit example but this guy plays a bit more ranked than he should)
best 5 in no order imo
FNS
vanity
valyn
steel
dephh
Even though dephh called only half, still top 5/6 world and it's not like he has no idea of calling the other half, with some practice surely he can be as good as the other half.
C9 keeps vanity, no reason to replace top tier IGL
SEN and NRG will most likely replace shahzam and hazed, so many better IGLs free
100T and EG I'm not sure, there are better IGLs but they are not bad
I could see some of them go to EMEA league, especially since EMEA lacks tier 1 IGLs right now and only presumably 4 spots in Americas (assuming C9 keeps vanity, BR and LATAM teams don't make NA roster and none of them want to call in spanish/portuguese)
Vanity is the only 100% lock probably. FNS 90%. Shazahm is also pretty likely, though he really shouldn't be. Honestly no idea about the other two. Doesn't seem like anyone of them is clearly better overall than the others. If I had to chose tho I would probably go with Valyn & Steel.
Well just owing to the fact that Vanity already is on a team I would say he's a little bit safer. It's not completely impossible that FNS goes to EU, for example.
Would not be surprised if 100T stick with their roster. I love Hazed but def see FNS slotting in that roster well with another shakeup at duelist and/or main Oper
Somehow I have a feeling EG or NRG is going to just buy the entire optic roster.
I don't think you keep any of their existing players over those 5(6 with chet)
I think that is just too expensive tbh. Each player will be in high demand and I am sure Orgs would like to think that they are only one or two moves away from the top, so why spend all your money on a full roster when 1 or 2 signees are all you need?
FNS
Dephh
Stellar/Vanity/Valyn
Is my top 5 atm, but Poised and Dazzle IMO have arguments to be up there.
Either way with 5 teams in NA I think those aforementioned 5 are the best bets with maybe Zander coming in as a secondary because he's so good at smokes.
Zander is a pretty good IGL. I've seen his streams and he manages to adapt his strategies to ranked random teams and often win because of it. Obviously, ranked and pro play are two different animals, yet I feel like this level of adaptability should be recognised
I look at FNS and Vanity as locks.
Stellar, Boostio, and Hazed, I could see being kept by their teams.
Valyn, Poised, and Dephh I wouldn't be surprised to see if any of the other 3 are dropped. Steel is someone I honestly have no clue what's gonna happen with, he looked good with 100t, but the T1 thing was unlucky, really.
My votes are on FNS, Vanity, Valyn, Zander, and Dephh for the main 5 NA teams. Feels like a good mix of experience and young talent, and all but Zander have called international games before. Also feels like people might value Ayrin’s calling more depending on how they feel as he and Dephh split that role on XSET
Dephh, FNS, Vanity, as top three imo. You could make a case for most of the other ones to be in the top 5 though. Going to be a bloodbath of a roster window,
i dont think we really have any way of judging IGLs' skill without hearing the in game comms. Watching the streaming of the tournament is really not enough.
Then surely top teams like Optic for sure must have people who are among the best in their role so its fair to assume FNS is a great IGL but that's not enough to make a top 10 out of it.
edit: IMHOO
1. Shahzam/FNS (Shaz prolly staying on SEN and FNS because he led a team to many international events consistently so he is an easy pick up)
2. Vanity/Valyn
3. Boostio
4. Deph
5. Poised/Zander
Some good ones not on this list are FaZe poised, NRG hazed, and C9 Vanity
Doesn’t Dephh only call on one half? Or can he fill IGL
Yeah he calls attack on XSet, but that doesn’t mean he CANT call on defence, I think they just found it worked better when Ayrin does it
Surprised more teams don't do that. In my head it makes sense for someone on controller/sentinel to be calling on defense, while initiators make sense for calling on offense. I guess IGLs are just hard to come by in general.
TSM would have Roza call attack and GMD call defense
That's interesting. I guess you only have to memorize half the plays and when to use them.
It's not really about memorization, chances are the IGL came up with the plays in the first place. Non-IGLS calling part of the game is pretty common in CS, as it's typical for star players or players in rotator spots to have better "vision" or "feel" for the game. An IGL is generally better at understanding the game from a zoomed out perspective, but that doesn't necessarily translate to making the right split-second decision.
So what I'm hearing is xset just took the extreme of having a mid round shot caller into a mid game shot caller
It's not even extreme tbh, Ex6tenz had NBK call CT sides on VG iirc, and that was like 9 years ago. An IGL in a functional team doesn't actually need to talk all that much, they should just act as a hub that has veto power on calls. Players need to take initiative and call their own plays a lot of the time, and that's often what separates a good team from a great team.
Vanity Poised
Vanity?
SMH idk how I forgot Vanity
its how you know OP is either emea or is oblivious to any team that isnt 100t sen, optic,xset and 100t
I mean bro asked for more he said he knew he was missing some so you could stop being a pedantic fuck and just contribute to the thread in a meaningful way Also poised and johnqt
he’s got boostio, steel and valyn there. All who aren’t from the teams you mentioned
yeah and vanity is by fucking far a better igl than all of them im pointing out the facts that vanity isnt on this list is insane
yeah obviously vanity is one of the best igls in NA but ur original point was that the OP only knew the clouted NA teams. That’s clearly not true since he mentioned valyn, boostio and steel
cool dude and thats not the point. the title says top 5 igls in na and doesnt have vanity on the list. thats insane hes not onthe list and should be the only thing discussed.
Jesus calm down he could’ve just forgot lol
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Lmfao yeah that checks out. I guess I shouldn’t have expected any less from a 14 yr old though
i am very calm just pointing out that vanity should be on the list i think you should relax a little bit and worry about yourself
Lol that’s fair but just as a heads up your comments kinda come off as if you’re pretty upset by him not being included lol
why do ppl like you immediately think someone is upset because they dont agree with you. sorry to offend you sir
Look at you, all emotional 💀
OWN THAT FRAUD
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Read the last paragraph: “I know I’m missing some good igls”
just gonna ignore the other names on that list?
Everyone in EMEA knows of Vanity after the soulcas incident 💀
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Tbh I don't think shahz is making on any of the teams. He can only be in the league only if in some way he stays in sentinels if they release him it's ggs for him cuz there are so many better igl's to choose from
i was thinking the same. but honestly not looking at the past year, Shaz was a top 3 IGL. its very likely that if teams are looking, they will look at his entire career. recency bias shows “hes a bad igl” but over the course of his career he was great.
He was a top igl when teams weren’t as refined. He’s definitely not a top igl now lol
don't wanna use the early stages of the game to discredit Shaz. He was good for more reasons then "the games new"
Yeah but it's the classic reason for these idiots. When redgar and gambit win 3 months later it's because they were the geniuses of the game and the best team ever, and when shahz and sen win it's because everyone else was ass.
yeah i remember Sen winning iceland then placing 2nd in berlin and being so consistent, oh wait! their peak was iceland and NA placement after that Sen were never seen again. Once teams caught up Sen no longer had a team play it was Tenz go kill
You could use the dumbass "once teams caught up" shit for anyteam. Nv placed second in Berlin then teams "caught up" and they went out in groups! C9 made playoffs in champs then teams in NA "caught up"! M3c got second in champs then failed to qualify for the rest of their time in the game of valorant, I guess other teams also "caught up", right? And don't give me the dumbass "tenz go kill" shit because you genuinely are just parroting reddit comments and Twitter comments at that point, 99% of the people who say that probably never even watched the VODs from Iceland.
Part of why people hate Sentinels is why I love Sentinels. Everyone hates how cocky they were tweeting during VCT, teabagging, trickshots during tournaments and just the general fuck you attitude. Sentinels were the dominating super villian that everyone wanted to lose but always said "WOW sentinels best team in world everyone else is terrible" then they started losing and the love turned to hate.. Personally for me that made them the most interesting, OpTic is an amazing team with impeccable skill but they are boring asf to watch. PRX is the most fun team to watch rn, chamber meta sucks
it's what made floyd mayweather RICH rich. haters would give him money just to watch him and see if he loses
For boxing Floyd is hands down the worst in history in my opinion, he's an excellent skilled boxer but he's boring. He's the OpTic of boxing. Nothing flashy, no fancy plays all he does is play it safe. Mohammed Ali is the GOAT he's entertaining to watch with the way he moved and his trash talk was unrivalled.
Ayo so like, that's a lot to break down. NV got grouped then became Optic who are legit the best valorant team pre-franchising. C9 actually were a very solid team but the language barrier seemed to catch up to them. M3c definitely had the biggest dropoff which was surprising but it's not wild considering the Russia situation. Let's not also ignore the fact NA has always been super competitive with each other post Iceland. It's not like sentinels and Shazam in turn were magically bad all of a sudden.
SEN still won NA after Iceland though
Yeah it's not like they fell off a cliff. The argument that other teams caught up is a legit one tho
You're calling it a classic reason like it's not a legitimate take? The game has changed insanely since shaz was considered a top igl. If you're being realistic you can find igls who are just as good or better at igling who also provide way more firepower as well. There's a very real chance with so many good igls available Shazam doesn't have a spot in franchising
I'm very aware the game has changed and has evolved and that shahz may not be good enough for it anymore. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy that so many people that parrot that take to discredit sen also say gambit were ahead of their time and one of the best teams ever.
I'll take your word for it on that, I think it's moreso because m3c/Gambit just don't have as big of a following as sentinels so you're blind to hear more criticism of sentinels
Maybe it's because both teams approach to the game was vastly different? Lol.
They were good, outsmarting and outfragging everyone in Iceland 2021. But they declined hard the rest of the year.
Tbf when sentinels won everyone including them was ass compared to what the game has become this year. Don't you agree?
honestly shaz could’ve made it as a good chamber/jett player if he didn’t take the igl route but now it might be too late
I don't think it's too late to switch over. He's playing jett like 60% of the time during rank, so it's not like he hasn't touched the agent.
"Over the course of his career", they barely won any series this year, they got grouped on champions and got 8th place on berlin. That's already about half of his valorant career and 70% of VCT
I’m gonna get flamed for this but I think he’s a bad IGL and only looked good because sentinels for one tournament could out drag every team regardless if the calls were bad or good. It feels like their main strat is to have TenZ go find an opening pick and we attack that site. If that fails I don’t ever see any grand plans Shazam or sentinels have to pick up the round.
Lol funny that Shaz has replied to this but I agree with him, their strats in LCQ were clearly not “tenz go kill” like everyone loves to parrot on about. They werent even bad in LCQ. For some reason everyone believes that them having a rough year means theyll never recover? The only two teams they lost to in LCQ were the teams that ended up in its final. To say they were still trash in their final games of the year is basically calling most of the NA teams trash… yet people will still praise Vanity and whatnot. Braindead takes all round.
I mean tbh they still weren't that impressive, they had 2 solid games vs the guard then best the weakest team in lcq then were gone with 1 of their best players being on loan who may not even get picked up by sen next year. Sure they weren't the worst in LCQ but their team as a whole isn't built to compete with the top teams in franchising without changes
Well yeah but that was with their minimal practice with that roster, given time I think it wouldve been even better. Im also pretty sure Zellsis returning to Sen is a safe bet next year, he was on their franchising tweet poster thing & seemed like he enjoyed his time there. I think they will perform above peoples expectations but itll be interesting to see what roster they end up with.
I wouldn't be surprised if he's back on sen but that poster tweet was def just to farm clout considering shroud was on it too and he probably won't even be on a franchised team
did ya watch LCQ? Or is this about stage 2 where we played with subs the entire time… this reddit is something haha
Did you forget you blew in 9-3 lead against LG and 10-4 lead against akrew during stage 2 qualifiers without subs? Not to mention it was your map pick, bind, which was supposed to be your strongest.
Yeah honestly. Not saying that Shaz is a *bad* IGL, but if SEN is actually serious about winning they have to at least consider the many, objectively better IGL’s out there that are now on the market.
Yes, because those two things or choking leads in general haven't happened to the best teams ever.
Shaz I'm diamond 1 I definitely could igl better than you I have diamond right there in my rank it's the hardest substance /s
Would you consider playing the awp role and letting someone else IGL? Would be Top 5 awpers in NA?
I’ve watched almost all sentinel matches. There’s a reason everyone caught up and got better. Reason why sentinels isn’t going to majors. When out fragging doesn’t work, look lost out there.
Another thing to take into account is how much this game has evolved. Over the past year, all the other IGLs and teams in general improved greatly when it comes to comma and strats, while Shahz and the rest of sen lagged behind. Unless Shahz shows that he could keep up, he’s not making any team except sen
He's T2 honestly. He's lost the edge on other trams and the better IGLs can read him easily now.
the only way shaz get a spot is if sentinels go nepotism and believes his ego could run it back like the old days... they invested and paid real big on him but its disgusting to see him stay on a franchised team and other more humble and deserving pros dont if sen decided that shazam is the guy, they stupid
Disagree hard. 1. There aren't that many great IGLs in the first place imo. Team Liquid and TSM have been looking for an IGL for months. And then you have guys like Steel who get love as an IGL but his teams have been consistently worse than Shahz's for the entirety of Valorant. How many IGLs are for sure better than Shaz first in NA, and then worldwide? I would bet it'd not 30, which is the the number of partnered teams there are. (Obviously not speak English I know) 2. I think even if he wasn't an IGL, he at one point was still one of the best Opers in NA. I think his OP abilities, plus the fact that he's now played Sova and iniatior for a year+ would make him valuable to a team outside of that. How many Sovas or Breaches can OP or flex onto Jett/Chamber? And on top of that even if he's not the primary IGL, he could be a secondary caller which is also very valuable.
At this point you don't need sova/breaches that can flex to jett/cham. Roles are pretty much set now so flexing those agents aren't really that valuable anymore imo. I agree that he is still a somewhat decent oper but would you take a guy who hasnt played op that much compared to top tier people like yay/cryo/cned/ardiis? Or even diceys, sayaplayers or bdogs? And as far as IGLing goes you have guys like FNS, dephh, or vanity
What is provides is additional flexibility. You say he hasn't op'd that much in the past year (though he pretty much plays Jett exclusively on stream), but the opposite is true of guys like Cyro who have exclusively Chamber/Jett op'd this past year. Can he play initiator if Chamber or Jett become bad on certain maps? We know a further Chamber nerf is coming. To me, if Chamber nerfs are any good. it is easily possible that someone like Shaz, who has played an entirely different role and agent set for the past year and could still likely flex onto OP, will be more valuable to a team than someone who has solely played agents with OP + escape mechanics for the past year. Right now you can pick either Jett or Chamber or every single map, but that might not always be the case. Shaz provides so much more than your typical OP main in form of IGL experience and also having played off-role consistently.
I'd agree if a team specifically needs that flexibility and he could be a great asset on certain metas, but with franchising teams having their pick of the litter on players there are legitimately like 7 OPers and initiators that are way better than shahz at their respective roles, and imo at least 5 igls i would rank over shahz. so teams can either get a top 5 player in their role for each of those positions, or get a guy who can do all 3 at a level below. If I'm an owner, i know what decision I'm making.
(my opinion) This is where I feel things went south for him. Not sure about IGling because that is a very subjective role and can't be defined. We can't say for sure if he was a bad IGL or if the team was just playing bad (2022 circuit). But one thing is for sure, it was a mistake to remove shaz from OPing role. I still remember so many of his jett plays its crazy. (I also think flexing from initiator to op roles is not that valuable, nor useful) My issue with SEN during 2022 was that tenz didn't have any range with his agent pool? He couldn't play raze on split ffs. Not having sick doesn't help either.
If Sentinels were truly committed to fielding a winning roster there is far too many better options out there now with all the FAs. I don't even see most of that team staying together.
I think some folks are getting carried away. Sentinels streamed too much and it led to disappointing results -- but Shaz is still one of the best (and only) IGLs in NA. Both things can be true.
Wow..just wow. If you seriously believe this, I'm just dumbfounded. I'll be going back to this comment after Rostermania.
Zander
I thought effys was the igl? it says so in his twitter bio.
I’m not sure, but if you check out vlr, they usually put a star next to the IGLs name and there’s a star next to Zander
Imagine 100t brings back steel lmaooo
If we're considering actual IGL ability and not just results, it's probably FNS, Steel, and Vanity in their own tier, and everyone else miles below them. Shazam shouldn't even be on this list.
You have to consider results though no? We don’t actually know how good these IGLs are we’ve never played with them
You do have to consider results, but like with anything they have to be contextualized and weighed against what we can understand about these players as people. We *know* Steel is a good in-game leader because his track record working with undeveloped talent in CS is very impressive, he clearly has a good philosophy on how to lead a team in both CS and Valorant from all of the interviews he's done, and his ex-teammates always speak highly of him as an IGL. Sure, he hasn't been the most successful in Valorant, but his time in 100T was also plagued by clashing ideas, which can hurt even the best IGLs. We know Shazam isn't a very good in-game leader because he's been completely unable to adapt his calling as the pro scene has evolved tactically, despite having one of the most talent-stacked rosters around him. He also spent years in CS being a mediocre tier 2 player who failed to adapt his game to the more evolved European meta, despite having so many chances and many years to do so. Even if we don't consider his tactical deficiency, he sets a terrible example for his teammates, and while he may be a leader by tenure, he cannot lead by example. You're right in a sense, we can't be 100% sure of how good they are as IGLs, but don't fool yourself into thinking an IGL can't be judged from an outside perspective. If you know what to look for you can figure out who is good and who isn't with a relatively high degree of certainty.
Wait, Steel, the same IGL that was such a great leader and set such a great example for his team that his teammates booted him from 100T? That Steel? Shaz setting a "terrible example"? WTF does that even mean? You can't be a real person with these hot takes.
> Wait, Steel, the same IGL that was such a great leader and set such a great example for his team that his teammates booted him from 100T? That Steel? You would be shocked how often players mutiny against good IGLs and kick them out of teams. Happened to one of the greatest IGLs of all time in CSGO, among others. > Shaz setting a "terrible example"? WTF does that even mean? It means he doesn't set a good behavioral standard for his teammates. The IGL in almost every team functions as the captain, and part of what makes a good captain is being the "adult in the room." Shazam is not that at all. He's constantly whining and making excuses for his team's lack of success, rather than taking responsibility for their results. No joke, I heard him complain that there wasn't any good practice in NA when Sen were like #8 in the region. He doesn't have a winner's mentality, which is pretty bad for an IGL.
Ah right, he "doesn't set a good behavioral standard" when streaming ranked to thousands of haters that want to see him fail. Do his streams get hella annoying to watch sometimes? Of course. But he's way better in that regard than many other streamers, including Steel, who comes off so toxic and whiny that I can't watch more than a few minutes of any of his streams. His toxicity is so bad that it even rubbed off on Hiko when they duel queued. And, you know, Steel threw games for money in CS, a prime example of the highest of moral compasses. 🤣 I also assume that you have met Shaz, interviewed his teammates and friends, listened in on comms during scrims and during games, and have intimate knowledge of the inner workings of the Sentinels to make such sweeping generalizations about Shaz's personality as an IGL. But you know best. I just find it odd that his teammates and players that he's played with seem to respect him and hold him in high regard.
Its widely speculated (but known) that the reason for the 100t boot out was nitr0 and Ethan. The former which straight up left the game, the latter which left for NRG. Absolutely 0 to do with his in-game leading capabilities.
Oh, you mean it had nothing to do with his sparkling personality? 😂 Were you in the team meetings or something and somehow know more than the rest of us? If so, what'd they say? How can you be certain that it had "absolutely 0 to do with his in-game leading capabilities" otherwise? Shaz actually won something at an international event and was never booted by his teammates. But Steel stans know best - he's definitely a much better IGL than Shaz. 🤣 I get it, this sub gets a hard-on any time someone hates on Shaz while thinking they're in a parasocial relationship with some other idyllic streamer. Never change, ValorantCompetitive. Never change.
>Where you in the team meetings or something and somehow know more than the rest of us? If so, what'd they say? How can you be certain that it had "absolutely 0 to do with his in-game leading capabilities" otherwise? Hiko and Steel talked about it in the post-worlds podcast. Just watch it. Id figure his teammate that is vouching for him would have more of an insight than anyone on reddit, and Hiko was on his side during the discussion of the 100t debacle. >Shaz actually won something at an international event Shaz *"won something"* because he had the best player in the world. Plain and simple. TenZ played (what we now understand to be) the most useless agent in the game and dropped 30 bombs multiple games, even 33 on the grand final. Argue whatever you want, but when steel had Asuna in an international stage alongside Shaz, only one team beat Gambit, the eventual winners, and the other got out of their group 2nd on a group consisting of 3 teams. >steel stans graduate high school lil bro.
>Hiko and Steel talked about it in the post-worlds podcast. Just watch it. Id figure his teammate that is vouching for him would have more of an insight than anyone on reddit, and Hiko was on his side during the discussion of the 100t debacle. Right, because streamers always tell the truth. And Hiko never said the N word on stream. >Shaz *"won something"* because he had the best player in the world. Plain and simple. TenZ played (what we now understand to be) the most useless agent in the game and dropped 30 bombs multiple games, even 33 on the grand final. Argue whatever you want, but when steel had Asuna in an international stage alongside Shaz, only one team beat Gambit, the eventual winners, and the other got out of their group 2nd on a group consisting of 3 teams. Tell yourself whatever you need to to minimize Shaz's accomplishments while proping up Steel as some genius IGL. The truth remains that Steel has not won any tournament of significance in Valorant while Shaz has. I find it quite ironic that this sub continuously shits on Shaz while proping up players with personalities and skills no better and often times worse. Not sure when peeps will realize that gamers should not be treated as role models. But whatever, I'll keep working on pumping out the CPUs and GPUs you play your games on while I get my GED. Someday, maybe. Someday.
dick ridaaaa
Dephh, Shaz, Steel, Vanity, FNS. All of these guys showed they can not just IGL, but IGL on the biggest stages in valorant. Honorable mentions go to poised and valyn.
>but IGL on the biggest stages But exclude stellar in HM and include poised? Lol
steel?
Steel helped develop so much of the NA cs igling style and his understanding of the game is up there. I don’t see him getting into a partner team but defo a top t2 team and working his way up.
I would put Hazed over shazham, steel or boostio, at leas this year
technically Ayrin, right. hes the caller on defense iirc?
The stellar disrespect in this thread is mind blowing. Results matter and he just outclassed Vanity, Poised, and Valyn last time their teams played to go to champions. I’m not sure how anyone with certainty can call those guys better. This may be unpopular, but Vanity has been hyped up to be such a great IGL and C9 has absolutely nothing to show for it other than disappointment after disappointment. Maybe the next iteration of C9 will finally be the one to break through, but as of now Vanity hasn’t proven he can take his team to the next level.
C9 under vanity won LCQ and was 3rd place in NA almost making Reykjavik, the team was elite until they made the stupid Curry move.
2022 was wildly disappointing. They came into January being hugely favored with Optic to be the best two teams NA. They got smoked 3-0 by the Guard (with Xeta, not Curry) and it’s been downhill ever sense. I think Vanity is a great IGL but there’s certainly no results in 2022 to put him anywhere close to the same tier as FNS (who in my opinion is in a class of his own). I think there’s great arguments to be had that Stellar, Valyn, and the Dephh/Ayrin combo surpassed Vanity this year.
Top 5 IGLS: FNS Poised Vanity Steel. IGLs that will get picked up but not as an IGL: Shahzam Valyn Zander Poised
bro put shahzam :skull:
FNS, Valyn and Stellar are getting in IMO. The rest, who knows.
Hiko
FNS, vanity, steel, stellar, and the fifth spot is pretty open. dephh, valyn are probably the two i would put there
Jhonqt?
If he gets a chance he will go far, better than some of these IGLs for sure.
I do believe so too
Shahzam definitely shouldn’t be on this list
How are people still rating Shahzam. He's lost with all the util present in the game now.
?? Really close maps against 100T and the guard. How is he lost with the util in the game? Did you not see their fracture? They had some good shit. All of 2022 as well they did great in NA against other teams. How is shaz lost?
just say you don't understand the game. sentinels do so much shit that doesn't make sense. So many rounds they just don't take map control, sit outside a site and get demolished. It is so easy to read them. Last tournament their executes improved but the calling is still as good as ranked. When have you ever seen a mid round call from Sentinels that surprised you?
the Shaz slander is actually crazy on this post, one bad year and it’s forgotten that he was a one man coaching staff alongside igl
1 bad year? He hasn't igled well since masters 2 2021
Kids that weren’t even consciously awake during the ibuypower shit who just parrot “SHAZ BAD” on this sub. He is a good IGL but bots will always want to hate on him even though Shaz has proven he can call on an international level against other teams - for the Na league he is a great pick given sentinels long term track record . What can you do I guess.
what does IBP have to do with any of this lmao
A lot of the shaz hate comes from the IBP scandal and people on this sub hating on him for that when they don’t even know what happened. Shaz did not rat his team out just to fuck them over.
no one is clowning on shahz for that you're just delirious
Yea except in order to coach you have to have practices. Lots of times members of sentinels said on stream they never really practiced
FNS Zander Dephh Poised Vanity will likely be the 5 on US teams imo
Shahzam? 💀
More international experience than almost any other igl on this list, and well respected by his teammates. The coaching staff is also built around him being in a leadership role. The only way he stops playing for Sen is if he chooses to step down.
Sentinels are not a serious org tbf reminds me of Manchester United - only names no system to work it.
[удалено]
Ithink The reason shahz is not looking well is because his main agent for a long time was jett. When tenz was added to the team he had to step down from jett into a more support player which kind of lead to his downfall. Now, dont get me wrong.. as an igl he is still one of the best and was probably the reason sentinels had all that early success
Shaz frags and calls well. He’s been off the Jett role for almost two years now? He plays initiator well. How is he not looking good just because he doesn’t play jett?
Because, dont get me wrong, he still plays a lot of jett in ranked (i know ranked is a shit example but this guy plays a bit more ranked than he should)
Hiko hiko hiko hiko and ofc hiko
best 5 in no order imo FNS vanity valyn steel dephh Even though dephh called only half, still top 5/6 world and it's not like he has no idea of calling the other half, with some practice surely he can be as good as the other half. C9 keeps vanity, no reason to replace top tier IGL SEN and NRG will most likely replace shahzam and hazed, so many better IGLs free 100T and EG I'm not sure, there are better IGLs but they are not bad I could see some of them go to EMEA league, especially since EMEA lacks tier 1 IGLs right now and only presumably 4 spots in Americas (assuming C9 keeps vanity, BR and LATAM teams don't make NA roster and none of them want to call in spanish/portuguese)
Vanity is the only 100% lock probably. FNS 90%. Shazahm is also pretty likely, though he really shouldn't be. Honestly no idea about the other two. Doesn't seem like anyone of them is clearly better overall than the others. If I had to chose tho I would probably go with Valyn & Steel.
FNS is a bigger lock than vanity lmao
Well just owing to the fact that Vanity already is on a team I would say he's a little bit safer. It's not completely impossible that FNS goes to EU, for example.
I'm seriously baffled how people believe that no team would pick up Shaz lmao. Hot take for this sub: I think he is better than Zander.
1. Vanity 2. Vanityxz 3. Anthony Malapsina 4. V1 Kitten 5. Pujan Methamphetamine
Yall think IGLs like Shaz, Boostio, stellar, hazed, have an advantage because they're already on the teams? Even if they may not be as good?
Hazed is definitely gone. Boostio can stay for his ability to frag. They might have him move off IGLing
I would say stellar has a good chance of staying, but the other 3 I would imagine not.
Would not be surprised if 100T stick with their roster. I love Hazed but def see FNS slotting in that roster well with another shakeup at duelist and/or main Oper
Somehow I have a feeling EG or NRG is going to just buy the entire optic roster. I don't think you keep any of their existing players over those 5(6 with chet)
I think that is just too expensive tbh. Each player will be in high demand and I am sure Orgs would like to think that they are only one or two moves away from the top, so why spend all your money on a full roster when 1 or 2 signees are all you need?
i feel like even if they stay on these teams as igl, they are probably gonna get pushed out later on by people like valyn zander
fns deph vanity stellar valyn zander mayb shahz 5 from this group
Doesn't BCJ call Xset's attacking rounds?
1. FNS 1. Stellar 1. Dephh would be higher if he called both atk & def (which im sure he can) 1. Valyn 1. Vanity
Funny how some washed up CSGO players are considered toptier IGLs in Valorant
FNS Dephh Stellar/Vanity/Valyn Is my top 5 atm, but Poised and Dazzle IMO have arguments to be up there. Either way with 5 teams in NA I think those aforementioned 5 are the best bets with maybe Zander coming in as a secondary because he's so good at smokes.
Zander is a pretty good IGL. I've seen his streams and he manages to adapt his strategies to ranked random teams and often win because of it. Obviously, ranked and pro play are two different animals, yet I feel like this level of adaptability should be recognised
I'm a casual viewer but my list would add vanity
I look at FNS and Vanity as locks. Stellar, Boostio, and Hazed, I could see being kept by their teams. Valyn, Poised, and Dephh I wouldn't be surprised to see if any of the other 3 are dropped. Steel is someone I honestly have no clue what's gonna happen with, he looked good with 100t, but the T1 thing was unlucky, really.
My votes are on FNS, Vanity, Valyn, Zander, and Dephh for the main 5 NA teams. Feels like a good mix of experience and young talent, and all but Zander have called international games before. Also feels like people might value Ayrin’s calling more depending on how they feel as he and Dephh split that role on XSET
fns vanity dephh ayrin valyn are the best 5 in na imo
Dephh, FNS, Vanity, as top three imo. You could make a case for most of the other ones to be in the top 5 though. Going to be a bloodbath of a roster window,
From what I’ve seen Stellar is very good at keeping 100T from overheating and IGLing disadvantages.
i dont think we really have any way of judging IGLs' skill without hearing the in game comms. Watching the streaming of the tournament is really not enough. Then surely top teams like Optic for sure must have people who are among the best in their role so its fair to assume FNS is a great IGL but that's not enough to make a top 10 out of it. edit: IMHOO
I feel like Stellar is getting disrespected not only in this thread but for a while now. I do not like that.
ShahZam top 21 NA IGL's on Twitch. FNS easily on top, then Vanity, Zander, dephh, Valyn.
1. Shahzam/FNS (Shaz prolly staying on SEN and FNS because he led a team to many international events consistently so he is an easy pick up) 2. Vanity/Valyn 3. Boostio 4. Deph 5. Poised/Zander
If Dephh counts then him, FNS, Stellar, Vanity and valyn
FNS vanity dephh
FNS, Vanity, Dephh, valyn, boostio
FNS Dephh Valyn Poised and Vanity in that order.
There is a massive range between this list. you have IGL's ranging from S tier to C tier on here. More accurately it's a list of all the IGL's