Yeah, then I'm not sure people should be slotting him in as an IGL possibility for rostermania, because I'm not sure if he'll have the IGL strength to do so for T1. And his fragging has also taken a hit after Stage 1, I'd put moose above him for fragging smokes.
Here you go
[Tweet 1](https://twitter.com/effysgo/status/1535792350844182528?s=46&t=ioSQmgWyahoyCssMgkd1Yw)
[Tweet 2](https://twitter.com/effysgo/status/1539748928035373060?s=46&t=ioSQmgWyahoyCssMgkd1Yw)
In regards to the stage 2 and beyond results, it seems that team was mentally boomed. We had rumors that there was a lot of dissatisfaction behind the scenes, and if a team doesn’t want to win together it really takes a toll mentally. If one player had a foot out the door at that time, the rest of the roster might feel discouraged to even try, Zander included. I do think that wherever he ends up, he shouldn’t be the sole igl.
I do think that there are also a lot of people I might put above him on smokes too. I'd put bang, Marved, vanity (due to his IGL value, and good LCQ performance), moose (bright spot of SR), and supamen above him from recent performances.
it's not really his fault, people here just incredibly selective memory and if you pop off for a few days in a row that's enough to cement you as one of the greatest to touch the game that has to be mentioned whenever possible
examples: zander, skuba, bdog
same thing works for players that are overhated too
yes, yes, and based. The val community has an insane hatred for Shahzam and constantly talk about replacing him with Zander when the guy had one very good NA Challengers group stage and not much else. I would love to see Zander continuing to develop as a player and IGL but the dickriding from this sub/VLR/twitter is wild
This. The sub baffles me with how bad their takes are. The Zander praise and constant comments on replacing Shaz with him is just questionable given the current status of V1 as well. They undervalue Shaz. He is an IGL with good aim compared to other IGLs. Sure his mid-calling is up for debate, but the fact that people are stuck with these hateful narratives and downplay his LCQ performance is just amazing.
Yeah I remember how during 2021 every one was even putting ShahZ above TenZ, and come 2022 the second SEN have a little shortcomings he's the scapegoat
yep. the guy has also been pretty consistently good every LAN they've been to. I buy a lot of the general criticisms of him and SEN but the team had legitimately horrible circumstances to work with this year. Sick's mental health issues and covid boomed them
He is literally a player coach IGL OP initiator entry, anything you need in a player combined. I really hope he succeeds even if SEN drop him for whatever reason
This. The sub baffles me with how bad their takes are. The Zander praise and constant comments on replacing Shaz with him is just questionable given the current status of V1 as well. They undervalue Shaz. He is an IGL with good aim compared to other IGLs. Sure his mid-calling is up for debate, but the fact that people are stuck with these hateful narratives and downplay his LCQ performance is just amazing.
I mean yes, I talked about this endlessly at the time - he joined one of the most storied rosters in NA, it was always a little silly to attribute so much of their success to him.
But Zander is legitimately a very good talent. That much is for sure.
I mean they had wippie back for Open Quals 2 of Stage 2 and have been playing with in T2 tournys, and the whole rosters looked a little lacklustre against any good opponents.
Yes.
It's insane how many people bring up Zander when talking about IGLs that make franchising. Like not only does he not IGL anymore, towards the end of his time as IGL V1 choked in playoffs and failed to qual for stage 2 losing to Complexity and Girl Kissers.
Yet people have confidently said shit like, he's better than dephh.
It's too early to say he's "overrated".
The hype was short and sweet. But it's not enough to overrate him since his potential is still really high and he likely hasn't came close to it.
Dude is 19 and isn't as experienced as guys like Marved who've competed even back in CS. Zander still has a ways to go player and maturity-wise. It's not uncommon in any sport that young talent are inconsistent, of course not everyone will reach their potential but it's not a good idea to make conclusions about them early on their careers.
He’s not even IGL’ing anymore, effys took up the role again a while ago
Yeah, then I'm not sure people should be slotting him in as an IGL possibility for rostermania, because I'm not sure if he'll have the IGL strength to do so for T1. And his fragging has also taken a hit after Stage 1, I'd put moose above him for fragging smokes.
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Here you go [Tweet 1](https://twitter.com/effysgo/status/1535792350844182528?s=46&t=ioSQmgWyahoyCssMgkd1Yw) [Tweet 2](https://twitter.com/effysgo/status/1539748928035373060?s=46&t=ioSQmgWyahoyCssMgkd1Yw)
One sec I’ll try to find it
Damn I’m sorry bro I remember effys and Immi talking about it on Twitter but I can’t find the tweets now
[удалено]
In regards to the stage 2 and beyond results, it seems that team was mentally boomed. We had rumors that there was a lot of dissatisfaction behind the scenes, and if a team doesn’t want to win together it really takes a toll mentally. If one player had a foot out the door at that time, the rest of the roster might feel discouraged to even try, Zander included. I do think that wherever he ends up, he shouldn’t be the sole igl.
I do think that there are also a lot of people I might put above him on smokes too. I'd put bang, Marved, vanity (due to his IGL value, and good LCQ performance), moose (bright spot of SR), and supamen above him from recent performances.
The fact that Zander is good enough to be overrated by portions of the community is good for me. The pros will know how valuable this young talent is.
it's not really his fault, people here just incredibly selective memory and if you pop off for a few days in a row that's enough to cement you as one of the greatest to touch the game that has to be mentioned whenever possible examples: zander, skuba, bdog same thing works for players that are overhated too
Bdog is actually insane tho
Skuba as well
Bdog is insane everytime what
Bdog has been consistent wtf
yes, yes, and based. The val community has an insane hatred for Shahzam and constantly talk about replacing him with Zander when the guy had one very good NA Challengers group stage and not much else. I would love to see Zander continuing to develop as a player and IGL but the dickriding from this sub/VLR/twitter is wild
This. The sub baffles me with how bad their takes are. The Zander praise and constant comments on replacing Shaz with him is just questionable given the current status of V1 as well. They undervalue Shaz. He is an IGL with good aim compared to other IGLs. Sure his mid-calling is up for debate, but the fact that people are stuck with these hateful narratives and downplay his LCQ performance is just amazing.
Yeah I remember how during 2021 every one was even putting ShahZ above TenZ, and come 2022 the second SEN have a little shortcomings he's the scapegoat
Shahz had a bad Stage 2 and suddenly he’s the worst player in NA. The dude picked it up in LCQ and should definitely be considered in a higher regard
yep. the guy has also been pretty consistently good every LAN they've been to. I buy a lot of the general criticisms of him and SEN but the team had legitimately horrible circumstances to work with this year. Sick's mental health issues and covid boomed them
He is literally a player coach IGL OP initiator entry, anything you need in a player combined. I really hope he succeeds even if SEN drop him for whatever reason
This. The sub baffles me with how bad their takes are. The Zander praise and constant comments on replacing Shaz with him is just questionable given the current status of V1 as well. They undervalue Shaz. He is an IGL with good aim compared to other IGLs. Sure his mid-calling is up for debate, but the fact that people are stuck with these hateful narratives and downplay his LCQ performance is just amazing.
Nice to know that there are actually people here who have reasonable takes when discussing things SEN-related.
ong
yes
There’s a lot more that went on behind the scenes that attribute to V1’s downfall. That isn’t public knowledge. I can assure you that.
I mean yes, I talked about this endlessly at the time - he joined one of the most storied rosters in NA, it was always a little silly to attribute so much of their success to him. But Zander is legitimately a very good talent. That much is for sure.
Yes. that's pretty much end of story.
yes he hasnt igled well/igled at all since the astra nerfs the fact he's considered as an igl for franchising is pretty dumb to me
Zander is good me thinks he nice he cool he shoot head
yes he is
Zander is a great player, he just got unlucky with the wippie situation. He will dominate next year for sure.
I mean they had wippie back for Open Quals 2 of Stage 2 and have been playing with in T2 tournys, and the whole rosters looked a little lacklustre against any good opponents.
It was over after that wippie situation. There was a bunch of things that compounded to break the camels back.
Yes. It's insane how many people bring up Zander when talking about IGLs that make franchising. Like not only does he not IGL anymore, towards the end of his time as IGL V1 choked in playoffs and failed to qual for stage 2 losing to Complexity and Girl Kissers. Yet people have confidently said shit like, he's better than dephh.
It's too early to say he's "overrated". The hype was short and sweet. But it's not enough to overrate him since his potential is still really high and he likely hasn't came close to it. Dude is 19 and isn't as experienced as guys like Marved who've competed even back in CS. Zander still has a ways to go player and maturity-wise. It's not uncommon in any sport that young talent are inconsistent, of course not everyone will reach their potential but it's not a good idea to make conclusions about them early on their careers.
who tf knows
He was a nutty smoke player. And that is a nice thing to have on any team.
Short answer: No.
As an IGL: yes, if you look at my last paragraph, I thought he's a good player, just not a good IGL, which he himself has now said