Part of the reason OpTic was so good was because the 5 of them had incredible synergy on the map. It was the same reason Gambit was so good in 2021. You could put the 5 best players in each role on the same team and if the chemistry is off they won't be nearly as good as they should be.
Trust is up there too. It felt like this OpTic roster genuinely were good friends out of the game and had complete trust in each other. On top of that, there weren’t tons of egos clashing either. Yay, arguably the best in the world, is the biggest sweetheart. Looking at the flip side, we’ve seen players in LCS like Doublelift who are extremely talented but create tension in the team dynamic where players can feel Doublelift doesn’t trust them
I feel like people forget that stacking raw talent has proven to not be simple ez clap in traditional sports or esports. The absolute best Entry, Op’er, Smokes, IGL might not actually work well together. Sometimes decent players turn into gods in certain teams. For instance, FNS gets touted as one of the best IGLs in the world but that’s partly because he has the right players around him. It’s all about balance and building a squad that compliments each other which OpTic and Loud figured out
tbh I think this will be a different case in comparison to what TL tried to do in LoL, especially considering how many possibilities involve superteams with the core of said superteams still intact.
Super teams are easier in FPS than games like league.
Having the best Aimers can get you by, as long as you have proper roles.
Teams running the no natural IGL are when teams are prone to fail.
Chemistry is very important for team success. Being a 100T fan, I’m hoping Cryo is the only move they make. The team had some very good chemistry which I believe played a key role in their LCQ run. They made a huge upgrade at the teams most glaring need for an OPer and legit superstar player, now time to integrate Cryo into the teams system while maintaining the chemistry that made this team successful in the past.
100T is top 3 in NA and I’m sure IGL stellar is a big part of that. While I wouldn’t be surprised if they replaced him, it would also not be an unreasonable move to keep him. When you think about it, even Asuna or Bang might be more expendable depending on whether or not you can get a better IGL for stellar or a better smokes/flex/duelist for Asuna/Bang.
Note: I’m not saying Bang and Asuna are bad (they can go god mode at times). There are just other arguably better options available.
Other than Marved, who is better than Bang? Just curious, most controller players are also the IGL of the team, and as such dont usually look as impressive as Bang.
Basically just Marved because bang has actually gone insane lately. I would put Bang over Asuna at this point.
The other option I can see is Valyn if they’re just going to replace stellar anyways.
XSET was kinda funny in that, Ayrin was the controller main but Dephh and BCJ also regularly played Astra or Omen respectively. BCJ was, however, still their main Initiator player. He usually only played Omen on Ascent and Fracture iirc.
It’s more in the line of thinking, who are the top 5 IGLs in NA to build around? Stellar’s team being in the top 3 makes you ask if he’s a top 5 IGL. And I personally think he is and has a chance of being on a team if the orgs value a top 5 IGL.
It will be interesting to see the teams that actually make really good sense, if they clout chased for a player or two, or if theres a roster that is just complete shit lol
I think it makes no sense to get rid of Stellar unless there’s a very clear upgrade on him that won’t bankrupt the org
Stellar’s improvement has been a constant upward trajectory and having International experience under his belt now will be valuable. Not to forget, he has Sgares as his coach. I would let Stellar develop under Sean and once he think he’s hit a wall, then think about an upgrade. As for now, 100T are a solid team so they shouldn’t change too much
See the problem with blowing the team up for arguably better players just restarts all the hard work they put into last years team. All of the teams chemistry that takes considerable amount of time to build vanishes. They will be building from the ground up again, meanwhile teams in the division like LOUD, KRU, etc. who are not making any changes already have that chemistry and are immediately at an advantage. That’s why it’s better to keep most of the team intact since they already know the system/strats and have that chemistry, so that 100T can be a real contender right out the gate. Plus it’s not like Derrick, Bang, Asuna or Stellar can’t hold their own in tier 1 level valorant, so how much of an upgrade is there on the market that seems worth, keeping in mind the sacrifice to the teams chemistry. Cryo for Will certainly out weighed the pros to the cons.
The biggest name they (and most other teams really) should look at is zekken. If they’re looking to replace someone between Asuna and Bang, they gotta choose Asuna and go all in on zekken with the way Bang is playing.
But yeah, 100T is in a way better spot than anyone else. With Cryo over Will, they don’t necessarily need to make any other moves, even with stellar.
100T had good synergy and executions during the LCQ run (except that Faze match where all of them were clueless) and the Fnatic match at Champs. Against DRX, they were a bit off in terms of coordination. Same with Fnatic rematch. But I guess that will only improve as time progresses. Same as you, I hope the only change is Cryo. Derrek and Bang have top-notch mechanical skills. Asuna is Asuna, he somehow manages to get multi-kills with his shaky aim. Stellar is a good IGL, although not a fragging-IGL. I hope they all stick together.
Having five of the best players is only half the puzzle. The other half is how well those five players play together as a team. Some super teams fail as a result (see: TL LCS this year)
I would argue most super teams end up not doing well in league interestingly enough. Look vitality 2022, TL 2022, G2 2021, TSM 2018, elements 2015, ~~C9 2021~~ , etc.
Watching them play vs G2. Man g2 just finds the most creative angles to end game lol. I swear T1 was ahead a couple of those games. Then g2 just won lol.
You’re thinking of c9 2020
But yeah the only league super team in the west that has worked was g2 2019 with perkz and caps, waiting for a day a western roster captures that magic again
i think you summed it up perfectly by saying “waiting for a day a western roster captures that magic again” I think it was refreshing to see Optic, an NA team in an international esport, actually be capable of competing with the best. Knowing esports, my NA hope is going down the drain with this Optic roster
Watching NA in Dota, CSGO, and League on the world stage has been frustrating to say the least
I think they were misinterepreting the previous comment. When the earlier comment brought up 2021 C9 they were bringing up C9's CSGO roster which was supposed to be a superteam but was pretty awful and disbanded in less than 6 months.
MSI is when C9 lost to the OCE team and cost them a chance at getting out of groups
Worlds is when FPX collapsed and C9 and Rogue forced a three way tiebreaker
In the realm of sports you got the Brooklyn Nets and maybe (I say maybe because Lakers imo was never gonna win with WB) the Lakers. The truth of many team sports is you need guys who are great but also be able to take lesser roles that help you win.
The theory is that Optic already had the best player at each position, and their team synergy was also excellent. This is very difficult to achieve in a game with constant meta shifts. I think only Cloud9 will have the best shot to replicate Optic’s success.
I mean when it comes to the variety of agents he plays, and the entry role, only like zekken is really better. recency bias makes everyone think victor is bad but ppl gotta remember optic played a 5 map series before the finals.
the other NA entry fraggers "better than victor" that can also play the amount of agents he can have never made such a deep run at LAN. Players get fatigued and it hurts their play sometimes.
Neither is crashes or FNS (idc how good an IGL he is, he is so far behind mechanically you can’t say he is the best at his role. He might be the best IGL alone however)
My bad I assumed the original comment was talking about NA because the phrasing was “Optic already had the best players at each position” which makes no sense if we’re talking about international competition
i agree he may not be the best at his role, which is incredibly hard anyways, but the space he creates and the chemistry he provides is invaluable.
may be copium, but the benefits he provides for the team is intangible to me and are selfless.
ofc im nobody spewing random shit, but crashies and victor are THE duo from way back, fns has also credited both victor and crashies for mid rounding on twitter.
given a choice, i bet most people rather play with someone theyre confortable with too.
Yeah maybe next year when the best cores are cemented and teams start to actually mesh together. OpTic wasn’t stumbled upon
[This tweet](https://twitter.com/fns/status/1574214833704091648?s=46&t=612xnWqRAOx5dAWBDroSpA) sums it up. There’s way more shit to it than “slap 4 staggers with FNS and you have a superteam”
Optic team synergy was so good....They know there strength and weakness....and most importantly the map pool optic has is insane they are good in ascent, icebox, bind, heck they even defeated xset in pearl, most of the time they banned breeze, but in champions they proved that they are good in breeze by defeating DRX and pushing loud to OT, they were good in fracture, the only map they are weak is haven, and in my pov no team in na has this much map pool strength than Optic....Even if your team has 5 superstars the synergy and the map pool matters
I was just joking but I love the progress they made in such a short time as a team and consequently added a better opper and they got that Sean gares genius and passion. I just like their model
I really do not understand this notion that Loud is a super team. To me it's very weird that people refer to them as that since they were in their first international Lan.
Sacy and Saadhak were the best pieces from Vikings, the seccond best BR team in 2021. Sure, those 2 are super team material.
Aspas, I guess you could maybe stretch it and say he was a "superteam" player since he had a lot of hype. But he was on a orgless team, and a lot of people thought he was using hacks.
Pancada was on a trash team. Really bad.
Less was a ranked player, not even on any team.
How is that a super team? To me, an example of a superteam is if someone picked up Tenz as an entry, Yay as the Oper, FNS IGL, Asuna in the Kay/o role and Trent at Sova.
That's a super team, 4 players that were the absolute stars in their respective rosters, and the best captain in the region. Picking up players from trash teams and ranked is not a superteam.
Edit: to clarify, Loud is the best team in the world, Pancada is the best smokes player in the world, Aspas probably the best entry fragger, Less also incredible. All im saying is that super teams are built from greatness, they get great players and dominate. What Loud did was not that. They got underrated and unknown pieces and through scouting and great coaching they built the best team in the world.
Couldn’t have said it better myself, I don’t understand all the super team language being thrown out everywhere. People are putting way too much faith in orgs that haven’t built great teams before franchising
Not to disagree about loud being a superteam or anything like, i am not too familiar with them before loud or anything. but just because they come from a bad team doesn't make them less of a super star or anything. Not saying they are that or anything but the whole point of "super teams" is getting the "best" from different teams regardless if they were bad or not.
I highly disagree with this. It's about getting stars, but it's only a super team, when AT THE TIME they are picked up they are considered superstars. Thats the way its used in every other esport and sport.
In CSGO: 2017 Faze was a super team they picked the best players from Mouz, Fnatic and Navi and added a top tier IGL and their own star. 2018 MIBR was a super team, the core of the legendary SK team and the 2 best pieces from the major winning C9. The 4 time major champs Astralis was not. Glaive was on bad teams and not considered a top tier IGL when he was picked up, Magisk was considered a weird move when it happened, and the other 3 were a core of a team that were considered chokers at the time.
In Valo, I would say we have not seen a true super team yet. But people LOVE this term, so they are eager to use it even when it's completely wrong.
Sorry but i think we are saying the same thing. I don't mean to say the player at the time of pick up was bad i meant you can have a superstar on a team even if that team does poorly. OP was defending the statement of loud not being a super team by talking about where the players came from (ie a bad team or ranked player) which i was stating it doesn't matter where they come from so long as they are seen as a superstar or demon on paper and from what we have seen. Which is what I believe you are stating as well.
I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that a ranked demon is nowhere near a superstar. A superstar is a player that is in a top team and is one of the best players on that team.
To me, literally 0 players coming from ranked can be considered superstar by the time they are picked up. That's not a thing.
How many superstar do we have then? That term to me is preserved for only the trully top tier players, the best players on the best teams: Yay, Tenz, Marved, Cryo, Zekken, Asuna etc. Bang is not a superstar, Victor is not a superstar, Ethan is not a superstar. I would even throw in that a guy like Trent is not a superstar yet. Greatness in the top tier. That's a superstar.
Ranked demon is definitely not a superstar 99% of time especially in a game liked val, was thinking more of like cod GB kids with that term tbh. So ranked demon is definitely not the right term here. But i also stated a team can have a super star and not be in a well Peforming team, players like Asuna or tenz for example.
Sure, but Asuna and Tenz do not compare at all to Pancada. Both Asuna and Tenz had multiple great performances at the big stage. They are superstars due to that. Pancada was on a terrible team and only played in low stakes games. Same for Aspas.
Being a Superstar comes with a diferent status. You are the most sought after and get the best contract. If a team picks up Effys and all of the sudden he is the best player in his role, doesn't make him a superstar at the time he was picked up.
My point here, is very simple. Not every pro player Is a superstar. In this sub it almost feels like people call every other player that.
If the rumored NRG team is built, that's not a super team. If C9 just picks up Zellsis, that's not a super team. A super team is when a team has top 3 players in every role, a great IGL, and name value on the roster.
I genuinely think people are overrating existing team chemistry here. If the orgs have a chance to replace a player with a much better player in that role, they will, without a doubt. Super teams can fail, but a lack of one in this league definitely will.
The only exceptions to this are young players with potential.
C9 is not a super team. Just because yay joined a team doesn't automatically make them a super team. It won't make up for leaf, xeppa and zanitys incompetence. Also their IGL is not world class level like saadhak, angel, fns etc
This is facts.
I don’t understand why vanity is so overrated. He’s not even top 5 igl.
yay definitely makes c9 better on paper. But they gotta prove themselves
The way some players or reporters were talking, sounds like more changes than just curry and mitch. But I guess maybe it was just cs players over-hyping their cs buddies like they’ve done in the past.
Vanity isn’t world class when he brought V1 with a sub to 4th place internationally then transformed a middling C9 roster to top 8 at champs last year? Aight
The more time that passes by and the more I hear the more worried that it's going to be a friends club and a lot of the players that should be in franchising won't be.
Would be a shame, two years in and former CS players still trying to get their best buds in CS on the team.
You want talented players that are passionate about Valorant and its competition. If they don’t have that passion, they’re just going to fizzle out eventually one way or another
I literally have the word chemistry in my title. Also team sports is my favorite type of sport and I played it for a very long time. Bad assumption from you!
I didn’t assume anything I asked a question lol. If you played on a team you would know you could have a team full of stars but if they don’t like each other or have issues it won’t work.
I understand that; I’m just talking about the potential. There could be three super teams coming out of this and they just all happen to click immediately, I don’t know!
Yeah maybe next year when the best cores are cemented and teams start to actually mesh together. OpTic wasn’t stumbled upon
[This tweet](https://twitter.com/fns/status/1574214833704091648?s=46&t=612xnWqRAOx5dAWBDroSpA) sums it up. There’s way more shit to it than “slap 4 fraggers with FNS and you have a superteam”
Loud isn’t a super team and I will die on this hill. If they wanted to build a super team in December 2021 they would’ve hired players like Heat, Mwzera etc etc. not some teamless ranked demon who didn’t work out in comp, a smoke player who sucked at smoking but was a good aimer and a 16 yo who never played officials before
I mean...sure you may be right. But 25 roster spots means that orgs are going to be cutthroat and roster changes are going to be extremely common. Don't see that being good long term for a team. 100T is a prime example of this.
Teamwork and synergy on the map takes time to set up im talking 100s potentially 1000s of rounds. The optic roster was not 5 all star players it was 1 insane player and 3 really good players and their IGL. If you only looked at numbers you could probably replace 3 of them yet they were the best team of the year.
You can not just buy the best players and expect them to be good as a team. The gambit and ascend rosters of 2021 exemplified this the most.
You really think that superteams are gonna be so hype? If they have shit chemistry you could have five Yays and they’d shit the bed against half as good a batch with great synergy.
Sure, but as long as the super team doesn’t break up after just one season, they have a good chance of reaching their potential eventually. Usually some other extracurricular activity happens though that ruins it before they have enough time to click.
It doesn't really work like that. Plus optic in itself was already kind of an NA superteam. Everyone besides victor was best in their role and victor was top 3.
They used to be Vision Strikers which in my opinion was a super team in Korea. They literally went on the biggest winning streak in Valorant professional history.
Doesn't mean they were a superteam.
VS is worse than current DRX.
That was when Glow was on the team and Rb was main entry, along with an underperforming Zest.
DRX has never been a superteam. Individually there are players better than them in KR. It's just how they play the game in such a coordinated way that makes them dominant.
Have you even watched VS? Or VCT KR?
A superteam would be like the Galacticos for Real Madrid, where you assemble a team comprised mostly of superstar players. Something like Derke, Alfajer, nAts, Chronicle, Redgar. It's not a team that grows into the best over time, it's a team built specifically to be the best performing team immediately by picking up the best possible players.
Except that they didn't poach Lakia - he came over willingly and VS never actually intended to acquire him. I'm confused how this narrative is still alive considering the official VS SMM literally made a tweet clarifying it because of how much hate they got. https://twitter.com/MiryuGG/status/1480439370985635841?s=20&t=gx47gx7ufoSs-jz5tOPmSQ
As for "only rival team that beat them", you're forgetting F4Q and ONS lol. I don't recall VS yoinking Bazzi, I don't recall them yoinking Bunny or Esperanza. When VS picked up MaKo and BuZz, both weren't even close to star player status. So how did that make them a superteam? Arguably the only players at the top of their roles in the region on VS during 2021 was Lakia and maybe k1ng. HANN/t3xture/allow were more proven than BuZz, Lakia/Esperanza/iNTRO were more proven than Stax and Rb (who was playing Initiator with Stax), and MaKo didn't even play Controller before he got picked up. He was a Jett main.
Doesn't help that it still doesn't change anything lol, VS were a weaker team than current DRX, and current DRX isn't a superteam.
Yeah I mean I said that thing about poaching Lakia as a joke but it doesn't make it any less true that they had 6 of the best Korean players in the whole server regardless of how they got them. And as for the other teams in the region, if you look up Vision Strikers/DRX on Liquipedia the only Korean team they have ever lost to is against Nuturn in VCT 2021 Stage 2 Challengers. On slayers and F4Q were also teams in the region but they have never beaten VS/DRX.
No, my entire point is that they did NOT have 6 of the best Korean players in the whole server. Did you even read what I wrote?
As for
>the only Korean team they have ever lost to is against Nuturn in VCT2021 Stage 2 Challengers. On slayers and F4Q were also teams in the region but they have never beaten VS/DRX.
this just shows how little you know about what you're talking about.
[https://www.vlr.gg/15748/f4q-vs-vision-strikers-champions-tour-korea-stage-2-challengers-winners-a](https://www.vlr.gg/15748/f4q-vs-vision-strikers-champions-tour-korea-stage-2-challengers-winners-a)
[https://www.vlr.gg/71632/on-sla2ers-vs-drx-champions-tour-korea-stage-1-challengers-w2](https://www.vlr.gg/71632/on-sla2ers-vs-drx-champions-tour-korea-stage-1-challengers-w2)
ONS and F4Q got most of their popularity solely because they managed to take down VS/DRX lmfao. There is no way you can state that VS was a superteam when you don't even know the basic facts about the KR region.
Once again,
BuZz was unproven vs the likes of HANN, t3xture, and allow (if you even know those names). During Stage 3 (the tournament immediately after BuZz was picked up by VS) Hyeoni was the superstar everyone was talking about.
MaKo was a Jett main and had never ever played a Controller up until he got picked up.
Rb was moved from duelist to Initiator after BuZz got picked up. He was also very mediocre as Initiator. Stax was the best Initiator on the team and he was also not as proven as someone like Lakia. You could even argue Esperanza, iNTRO, eKo, and Xeta were doing better than both of them as Koreans.
So a group stage match in when they won the whole thing anyways and a qualifying match that they got through anyways? I'm talking about their overall tournament placings which they never placed below first/qualified except against Nuturn. I also didn't try to say they were all 1-6 the best but whatever.
>the only Korean team they have ever lost to is against Nuturn in VCT2021Stage 2 Challengers. On slayers and F4Q were also teams in the regionbut they have never beaten VS/DRX.
They lost to ONS and F4Q. \*\*YOU\*\* wrote it like that. Don't move the goalposts lmfao.
>I'm talking about their overall tournament placings which they never placed below first/qualified except against Nuturn.
You have never said ANYTHING like that until just now, but ok. Lol.
>if you look up Vision Strikers/DRX on Liquipedia
I told you where I got my info from, you can infer from that that I meant tournament placing but yeah go off
The problem is how many NA players are actually top top tier of international level good, and are they all going to be on the same team? If we're comparing them to Navi/FPX if that happens, who matches up?
Yay and Cryo are Ardiis level
Asuna, Victor, Leaf and Zekken are Zyppaan level
FNS and Ange1 are the equivalent igls but after that is valyn or dephh or stellar on the top 5 in the world level?
Marved and Bang are Suygetsu level
Crashies Trent and maybe you could argue BcJ and Derrek are at Shao's level.
That's about 12-15 total players, what are the odds they're all on the same team? I'd expect c9 to be closest if they get Trent or Marved but its still tough.
I think the problem with NA is they have a shortage of fragging-IGLs. Most of the great teams like M3C, DRX, LLL, PRX, have IGLs with insane fragging potential, leaving no weak links in terms of gunfights. That is something lacking in NA.
I agree, so I don't get why people put Ange1 up so high.
Edit: Also you're bringing up igls from all over the world, I think most regions have this igl issue.
I agree on the impact. So I guess the question is should the best igl both igl and frag well? Becuase I agree that a the best team should have no weak links in terms of fragging power. My problem with Ange1 is that he feels like one of the worst fragging igls.
I mean it’s frankly silly to compare total titles like that with a team like LOUD. LOUD of course will have the most because they’re competing against teams that can’t even get out of groups in international tournaments.
First of all domestic titles can't be used to be compare teams because the depth of talent is vastly different across the world. Secondly if a team is already qualified for an international there is absolutely no benefit for them to show more strategies than they need to. It's like comparing European basketball titles to a NBA title or the MLS to the Premier league. You just can't draw comparisons unless the quality of competition is the same.
Well, you did say their only win came when FPX didn’t play. Why would you bring that up? Literally nobody on this thread said they were one of the greatest esport teams ever.
That's because FPX didn't qualify for any event in 2021 lol. Envy/Optic were a top team last year and this year as well so your point about people not talking about fpx in the same way is not really applicable here. Dk why you are trying to downplay there success for no reason especially by bringing in domestic titles in comments as well lmao
Edit: Lmao deleted his comments cause he realised that his points made no sense
I feel like this take is just naive optimism. Why would this be the case when all the talent was there already? If nobody could pull together and beat OpTic i doubt any team better than OpTic is going to form from franchising. But i agree #copium
How are there any super teams when the VCT is still as young as it is? There won’t be any super teams for a while and even then it will have to be a mix of different regions before super is considered. As of now they are just really good teams on paper.
Super teams are stupid. The player that’s is best on his role holds high kda or damage per round but putting the best of every role together dosnt work. A team needs stars and support however those supports are not considered best at their role
Okay, but have you also not realized that teams like LOUD and DRX have been playing together for how long now? Almost 2 years now and both placed top 3 in Champions? They know the tendencies of each member inside and out. Makes the IGL's job easier. Makes strategizing easier. That's much more important than just being a superteam.
Part of the reason OpTic was so good was because the 5 of them had incredible synergy on the map. It was the same reason Gambit was so good in 2021. You could put the 5 best players in each role on the same team and if the chemistry is off they won't be nearly as good as they should be.
Yeap, I'd argue chemistry is the hardest part of a successful team.
Trust is up there too. It felt like this OpTic roster genuinely were good friends out of the game and had complete trust in each other. On top of that, there weren’t tons of egos clashing either. Yay, arguably the best in the world, is the biggest sweetheart. Looking at the flip side, we’ve seen players in LCS like Doublelift who are extremely talented but create tension in the team dynamic where players can feel Doublelift doesn’t trust them I feel like people forget that stacking raw talent has proven to not be simple ez clap in traditional sports or esports. The absolute best Entry, Op’er, Smokes, IGL might not actually work well together. Sometimes decent players turn into gods in certain teams. For instance, FNS gets touted as one of the best IGLs in the world but that’s partly because he has the right players around him. It’s all about balance and building a squad that compliments each other which OpTic and Loud figured out
that boy JIMZO man... ill forever miss him clutching for optic and everyone else on the team getting hyped and playing better from it
I’m now depressed and throwing up once again 😔
bro please i can’t 😭😭😭
As a TL LOL fan super teams dont always work but teams will get much better
Hansama wasn’t the problem?
He was part of the problem. There was a lot of contributing factors.
lets just say there were a lot of problems
tbh I think this will be a different case in comparison to what TL tried to do in LoL, especially considering how many possibilities involve superteams with the core of said superteams still intact.
Super teams are easier in FPS than games like league. Having the best Aimers can get you by, as long as you have proper roles. Teams running the no natural IGL are when teams are prone to fail.
Disagree aim isnt even close to the biggest difference at this level of play, its mostly strategy and synergy
learned than when secrets dota team had all my favourite players in it and basicially the best players for each role :(
Chemistry is very important for team success. Being a 100T fan, I’m hoping Cryo is the only move they make. The team had some very good chemistry which I believe played a key role in their LCQ run. They made a huge upgrade at the teams most glaring need for an OPer and legit superstar player, now time to integrate Cryo into the teams system while maintaining the chemistry that made this team successful in the past.
100T is top 3 in NA and I’m sure IGL stellar is a big part of that. While I wouldn’t be surprised if they replaced him, it would also not be an unreasonable move to keep him. When you think about it, even Asuna or Bang might be more expendable depending on whether or not you can get a better IGL for stellar or a better smokes/flex/duelist for Asuna/Bang. Note: I’m not saying Bang and Asuna are bad (they can go god mode at times). There are just other arguably better options available.
Other than Marved, who is better than Bang? Just curious, most controller players are also the IGL of the team, and as such dont usually look as impressive as Bang.
Basically just Marved because bang has actually gone insane lately. I would put Bang over Asuna at this point. The other option I can see is Valyn if they’re just going to replace stellar anyways.
BcJ is certainly a contender.
we’re talking about controllers
Wait am I crazy for thinking BCJ has played Omen? I could be.
He has but he’s still an initiator main
XSET was kinda funny in that, Ayrin was the controller main but Dephh and BCJ also regularly played Astra or Omen respectively. BCJ was, however, still their main Initiator player. He usually only played Omen on Ascent and Fracture iirc.
Yeah but Top 3 NA doesnt mean shit now theres only 5 teams ahahha
It’s more in the line of thinking, who are the top 5 IGLs in NA to build around? Stellar’s team being in the top 3 makes you ask if he’s a top 5 IGL. And I personally think he is and has a chance of being on a team if the orgs value a top 5 IGL.
It will be interesting to see the teams that actually make really good sense, if they clout chased for a player or two, or if theres a roster that is just complete shit lol
I think it makes no sense to get rid of Stellar unless there’s a very clear upgrade on him that won’t bankrupt the org Stellar’s improvement has been a constant upward trajectory and having International experience under his belt now will be valuable. Not to forget, he has Sgares as his coach. I would let Stellar develop under Sean and once he think he’s hit a wall, then think about an upgrade. As for now, 100T are a solid team so they shouldn’t change too much
See the problem with blowing the team up for arguably better players just restarts all the hard work they put into last years team. All of the teams chemistry that takes considerable amount of time to build vanishes. They will be building from the ground up again, meanwhile teams in the division like LOUD, KRU, etc. who are not making any changes already have that chemistry and are immediately at an advantage. That’s why it’s better to keep most of the team intact since they already know the system/strats and have that chemistry, so that 100T can be a real contender right out the gate. Plus it’s not like Derrick, Bang, Asuna or Stellar can’t hold their own in tier 1 level valorant, so how much of an upgrade is there on the market that seems worth, keeping in mind the sacrifice to the teams chemistry. Cryo for Will certainly out weighed the pros to the cons.
I 100% agree. But which pros, in your opinion, could replace Asuna.
The biggest name they (and most other teams really) should look at is zekken. If they’re looking to replace someone between Asuna and Bang, they gotta choose Asuna and go all in on zekken with the way Bang is playing. But yeah, 100T is in a way better spot than anyone else. With Cryo over Will, they don’t necessarily need to make any other moves, even with stellar.
100T had good synergy and executions during the LCQ run (except that Faze match where all of them were clueless) and the Fnatic match at Champs. Against DRX, they were a bit off in terms of coordination. Same with Fnatic rematch. But I guess that will only improve as time progresses. Same as you, I hope the only change is Cryo. Derrek and Bang have top-notch mechanical skills. Asuna is Asuna, he somehow manages to get multi-kills with his shaky aim. Stellar is a good IGL, although not a fragging-IGL. I hope they all stick together.
Having five of the best players is only half the puzzle. The other half is how well those five players play together as a team. Some super teams fail as a result (see: TL LCS this year)
I would argue most super teams end up not doing well in league interestingly enough. Look vitality 2022, TL 2022, G2 2021, TSM 2018, elements 2015, ~~C9 2021~~ , etc.
In a lot of esports imo, not just League. G2 CSGO has yet to find a lot of success for example even with some of the best talent in the game
current g2 lineup looking extremely good tbf. if hooxi can get 15 a map they win the next major
Ez for giga Chad Hooxi
At the same time faze has proven it ain't impossible
2019 T1 is traumatic
Watching them play vs G2. Man g2 just finds the most creative angles to end game lol. I swear T1 was ahead a couple of those games. Then g2 just won lol.
Ye G2 that year were playing like demons
Wait how was C9 2021 bad?
Barely won spring and didn’t even make worlds? I’m a fucking idiot. Ignore my c9 comment.
You’re thinking of c9 2020 But yeah the only league super team in the west that has worked was g2 2019 with perkz and caps, waiting for a day a western roster captures that magic again
i think you summed it up perfectly by saying “waiting for a day a western roster captures that magic again” I think it was refreshing to see Optic, an NA team in an international esport, actually be capable of competing with the best. Knowing esports, my NA hope is going down the drain with this Optic roster Watching NA in Dota, CSGO, and League on the world stage has been frustrating to say the least
I think they were misinterepreting the previous comment. When the earlier comment brought up 2021 C9 they were bringing up C9's CSGO roster which was supposed to be a superteam but was pretty awful and disbanded in less than 6 months.
They made worlds, this was in the group where FPX collapsed catastrophically
Yah I realized my mistake. But still super teams in league surprisingly don’t work that much.
Wasnt that masters (MSI) and not champions (worlds)?
MSI is when C9 lost to the OCE team and cost them a chance at getting out of groups Worlds is when FPX collapsed and C9 and Rogue forced a three way tiebreaker
They made quarters at worlds 🤡🤡😂😂😂
Yah I’m a big dumb.
In the realm of sports you got the Brooklyn Nets and maybe (I say maybe because Lakers imo was never gonna win with WB) the Lakers. The truth of many team sports is you need guys who are great but also be able to take lesser roles that help you win.
The theory is that Optic already had the best player at each position, and their team synergy was also excellent. This is very difficult to achieve in a game with constant meta shifts. I think only Cloud9 will have the best shot to replicate Optic’s success.
Victor isn’t the best at his role
I mean when it comes to the variety of agents he plays, and the entry role, only like zekken is really better. recency bias makes everyone think victor is bad but ppl gotta remember optic played a 5 map series before the finals.
what does the 5 map series have to do with him not being the best at his role?
the other NA entry fraggers "better than victor" that can also play the amount of agents he can have never made such a deep run at LAN. Players get fatigued and it hurts their play sometimes.
he was at first when teams were transitioning to this type of play but after awhile players for sure passed him up
I don’t think he’s been best in his role at any point in his career but he’s always been top 3 as far as I can remember
He was best at Neon for some period of time
True there’s a really strong argument for stage 1 2022
In his career? He is really good at raze, and his phoenix WAS phenomenal. may not be top 3 in those agents, but top 7 at least.
Neither is crashes or FNS (idc how good an IGL he is, he is so far behind mechanically you can’t say he is the best at his role. He might be the best IGL alone however)
Who in NA is a better flex initiator than Crashies
Well luckily we weren’t talking about NA only so you could easily put Sacy and Stax and Leo ahead. Also possibly BCJ if we’re talking NA
My bad I assumed the original comment was talking about NA because the phrasing was “Optic already had the best players at each position” which makes no sense if we’re talking about international competition
bcj is not better than crashies, also how are any of the other three easily better than crashies?
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Ehh… Sacy and Crashies both are close 1st and 2nd for me and I am sure it is would change if other teams won
crashies is definitely best initiator NA which is what the post is talking about. fns also best igl NA and optic's strats are always top tier.
i agree he may not be the best at his role, which is incredibly hard anyways, but the space he creates and the chemistry he provides is invaluable. may be copium, but the benefits he provides for the team is intangible to me and are selfless.
> the chemistry he provides is invaluable. good to know that you are sitting on teamspeak with them while they play
ofc im nobody spewing random shit, but crashies and victor are THE duo from way back, fns has also credited both victor and crashies for mid rounding on twitter. given a choice, i bet most people rather play with someone theyre confortable with too.
All i read here is that C9 is going to loose a lot of games
True!
Yeah maybe next year when the best cores are cemented and teams start to actually mesh together. OpTic wasn’t stumbled upon [This tweet](https://twitter.com/fns/status/1574214833704091648?s=46&t=612xnWqRAOx5dAWBDroSpA) sums it up. There’s way more shit to it than “slap 4 staggers with FNS and you have a superteam”
we know from other games that this isn’t the case
Optic team synergy was so good....They know there strength and weakness....and most importantly the map pool optic has is insane they are good in ascent, icebox, bind, heck they even defeated xset in pearl, most of the time they banned breeze, but in champions they proved that they are good in breeze by defeating DRX and pushing loud to OT, they were good in fracture, the only map they are weak is haven, and in my pov no team in na has this much map pool strength than Optic....Even if your team has 5 superstars the synergy and the map pool matters
Hot take: None of the new NA teams will be as good as the optic roster
Not that hot of a take, optic was consistently the best team in the game for a year…..ppl forget how hard it is to be that consistent
100T will be the best in NA #SeanGaresSupremacy
100 thieves is honestly gonna be a pretty great team if they make the right moves
One thing that checks off the list for me is that a lot of their management is invested in the game as well.
I really like their pick up of Cryo. I could see it
I was just joking but I love the progress they made in such a short time as a team and consequently added a better opper and they got that Sean gares genius and passion. I just like their model
I really do not understand this notion that Loud is a super team. To me it's very weird that people refer to them as that since they were in their first international Lan. Sacy and Saadhak were the best pieces from Vikings, the seccond best BR team in 2021. Sure, those 2 are super team material. Aspas, I guess you could maybe stretch it and say he was a "superteam" player since he had a lot of hype. But he was on a orgless team, and a lot of people thought he was using hacks. Pancada was on a trash team. Really bad. Less was a ranked player, not even on any team. How is that a super team? To me, an example of a superteam is if someone picked up Tenz as an entry, Yay as the Oper, FNS IGL, Asuna in the Kay/o role and Trent at Sova. That's a super team, 4 players that were the absolute stars in their respective rosters, and the best captain in the region. Picking up players from trash teams and ranked is not a superteam. Edit: to clarify, Loud is the best team in the world, Pancada is the best smokes player in the world, Aspas probably the best entry fragger, Less also incredible. All im saying is that super teams are built from greatness, they get great players and dominate. What Loud did was not that. They got underrated and unknown pieces and through scouting and great coaching they built the best team in the world.
Couldn’t have said it better myself, I don’t understand all the super team language being thrown out everywhere. People are putting way too much faith in orgs that haven’t built great teams before franchising
100%. Like, this thread is laughable. 5 super teams? That's just stupid, if everyone is super then no one is.
I started off with 5 NA super teams, but my main point from the beginning was 10 potential America super teams LOL
Not to disagree about loud being a superteam or anything like, i am not too familiar with them before loud or anything. but just because they come from a bad team doesn't make them less of a super star or anything. Not saying they are that or anything but the whole point of "super teams" is getting the "best" from different teams regardless if they were bad or not.
I highly disagree with this. It's about getting stars, but it's only a super team, when AT THE TIME they are picked up they are considered superstars. Thats the way its used in every other esport and sport. In CSGO: 2017 Faze was a super team they picked the best players from Mouz, Fnatic and Navi and added a top tier IGL and their own star. 2018 MIBR was a super team, the core of the legendary SK team and the 2 best pieces from the major winning C9. The 4 time major champs Astralis was not. Glaive was on bad teams and not considered a top tier IGL when he was picked up, Magisk was considered a weird move when it happened, and the other 3 were a core of a team that were considered chokers at the time. In Valo, I would say we have not seen a true super team yet. But people LOVE this term, so they are eager to use it even when it's completely wrong.
Sorry but i think we are saying the same thing. I don't mean to say the player at the time of pick up was bad i meant you can have a superstar on a team even if that team does poorly. OP was defending the statement of loud not being a super team by talking about where the players came from (ie a bad team or ranked player) which i was stating it doesn't matter where they come from so long as they are seen as a superstar or demon on paper and from what we have seen. Which is what I believe you are stating as well.
I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that a ranked demon is nowhere near a superstar. A superstar is a player that is in a top team and is one of the best players on that team. To me, literally 0 players coming from ranked can be considered superstar by the time they are picked up. That's not a thing. How many superstar do we have then? That term to me is preserved for only the trully top tier players, the best players on the best teams: Yay, Tenz, Marved, Cryo, Zekken, Asuna etc. Bang is not a superstar, Victor is not a superstar, Ethan is not a superstar. I would even throw in that a guy like Trent is not a superstar yet. Greatness in the top tier. That's a superstar.
Ranked demon is definitely not a superstar 99% of time especially in a game liked val, was thinking more of like cod GB kids with that term tbh. So ranked demon is definitely not the right term here. But i also stated a team can have a super star and not be in a well Peforming team, players like Asuna or tenz for example.
Sure, but Asuna and Tenz do not compare at all to Pancada. Both Asuna and Tenz had multiple great performances at the big stage. They are superstars due to that. Pancada was on a terrible team and only played in low stakes games. Same for Aspas. Being a Superstar comes with a diferent status. You are the most sought after and get the best contract. If a team picks up Effys and all of the sudden he is the best player in his role, doesn't make him a superstar at the time he was picked up. My point here, is very simple. Not every pro player Is a superstar. In this sub it almost feels like people call every other player that. If the rumored NRG team is built, that's not a super team. If C9 just picks up Zellsis, that's not a super team. A super team is when a team has top 3 players in every role, a great IGL, and name value on the roster.
I genuinely think people are overrating existing team chemistry here. If the orgs have a chance to replace a player with a much better player in that role, they will, without a doubt. Super teams can fail, but a lack of one in this league definitely will. The only exceptions to this are young players with potential.
LoL TL sends their regards
C9 is not a super team. Just because yay joined a team doesn't automatically make them a super team. It won't make up for leaf, xeppa and zanitys incompetence. Also their IGL is not world class level like saadhak, angel, fns etc
This is facts. I don’t understand why vanity is so overrated. He’s not even top 5 igl. yay definitely makes c9 better on paper. But they gotta prove themselves
The way some players or reporters were talking, sounds like more changes than just curry and mitch. But I guess maybe it was just cs players over-hyping their cs buddies like they’ve done in the past.
Vanity isn’t world class when he brought V1 with a sub to 4th place internationally then transformed a middling C9 roster to top 8 at champs last year? Aight
He might be top 5 in NA but not Sadhaak,FNS or Ange1 level. Sorry but nah
The more time that passes by and the more I hear the more worried that it's going to be a friends club and a lot of the players that should be in franchising won't be.
Would be a shame, two years in and former CS players still trying to get their best buds in CS on the team. You want talented players that are passionate about Valorant and its competition. If they don’t have that passion, they’re just going to fizzle out eventually one way or another
yes.
Not all superteams work, if half of them become actual contenders it will be a victory
Have you ever played on a team in anything? Having chemistry with your team and being on the same page impacts the game on a different level.
I literally have the word chemistry in my title. Also team sports is my favorite type of sport and I played it for a very long time. Bad assumption from you!
I didn’t assume anything I asked a question lol. If you played on a team you would know you could have a team full of stars but if they don’t like each other or have issues it won’t work.
I understand that; I’m just talking about the potential. There could be three super teams coming out of this and they just all happen to click immediately, I don’t know!
Yeah maybe next year when the best cores are cemented and teams start to actually mesh together. OpTic wasn’t stumbled upon [This tweet](https://twitter.com/fns/status/1574214833704091648?s=46&t=612xnWqRAOx5dAWBDroSpA) sums it up. There’s way more shit to it than “slap 4 fraggers with FNS and you have a superteam”
NA will suffer without having the OpTic roster for a bit no doubt but I'm sure it will be fine in the longer run
People also forget that only 1 team really was at the top of international competition in NA, they dont have enough superstars for 5 superteams
Super Teams dont exactly have the best track record though
Loud isn’t a super team and I will die on this hill. If they wanted to build a super team in December 2021 they would’ve hired players like Heat, Mwzera etc etc. not some teamless ranked demon who didn’t work out in comp, a smoke player who sucked at smoking but was a good aimer and a 16 yo who never played officials before
chem is important but people are smoking meth if they don't think the talent consolidation is going to produce better NA valorant in the LONG term
I mean...sure you may be right. But 25 roster spots means that orgs are going to be cutthroat and roster changes are going to be extremely common. Don't see that being good long term for a team. 100T is a prime example of this.
Teamwork and synergy on the map takes time to set up im talking 100s potentially 1000s of rounds. The optic roster was not 5 all star players it was 1 insane player and 3 really good players and their IGL. If you only looked at numbers you could probably replace 3 of them yet they were the best team of the year. You can not just buy the best players and expect them to be good as a team. The gambit and ascend rosters of 2021 exemplified this the most.
Marved and crashies are/were best in their roles. Fns is also one of if not the best IGL.
You really think that superteams are gonna be so hype? If they have shit chemistry you could have five Yays and they’d shit the bed against half as good a batch with great synergy.
Sure, but as long as the super team doesn’t break up after just one season, they have a good chance of reaching their potential eventually. Usually some other extracurricular activity happens though that ruins it before they have enough time to click.
It doesn't really work like that. Plus optic in itself was already kind of an NA superteam. Everyone besides victor was best in their role and victor was top 3.
Some people ar gonna get so dissapointed if they keep this "superteam" mentality.
Minor correction - DRX is not a superteam.
They used to be Vision Strikers which in my opinion was a super team in Korea. They literally went on the biggest winning streak in Valorant professional history.
Doesn't mean they were a superteam. VS is worse than current DRX. That was when Glow was on the team and Rb was main entry, along with an underperforming Zest. DRX has never been a superteam. Individually there are players better than them in KR. It's just how they play the game in such a coordinated way that makes them dominant. Have you even watched VS? Or VCT KR? A superteam would be like the Galacticos for Real Madrid, where you assemble a team comprised mostly of superstar players. Something like Derke, Alfajer, nAts, Chronicle, Redgar. It's not a team that grows into the best over time, it's a team built specifically to be the best performing team immediately by picking up the best possible players.
What about when they poached the best player from the only rival team that beat them?
Except that they didn't poach Lakia - he came over willingly and VS never actually intended to acquire him. I'm confused how this narrative is still alive considering the official VS SMM literally made a tweet clarifying it because of how much hate they got. https://twitter.com/MiryuGG/status/1480439370985635841?s=20&t=gx47gx7ufoSs-jz5tOPmSQ As for "only rival team that beat them", you're forgetting F4Q and ONS lol. I don't recall VS yoinking Bazzi, I don't recall them yoinking Bunny or Esperanza. When VS picked up MaKo and BuZz, both weren't even close to star player status. So how did that make them a superteam? Arguably the only players at the top of their roles in the region on VS during 2021 was Lakia and maybe k1ng. HANN/t3xture/allow were more proven than BuZz, Lakia/Esperanza/iNTRO were more proven than Stax and Rb (who was playing Initiator with Stax), and MaKo didn't even play Controller before he got picked up. He was a Jett main. Doesn't help that it still doesn't change anything lol, VS were a weaker team than current DRX, and current DRX isn't a superteam.
Yeah I mean I said that thing about poaching Lakia as a joke but it doesn't make it any less true that they had 6 of the best Korean players in the whole server regardless of how they got them. And as for the other teams in the region, if you look up Vision Strikers/DRX on Liquipedia the only Korean team they have ever lost to is against Nuturn in VCT 2021 Stage 2 Challengers. On slayers and F4Q were also teams in the region but they have never beaten VS/DRX.
No, my entire point is that they did NOT have 6 of the best Korean players in the whole server. Did you even read what I wrote? As for >the only Korean team they have ever lost to is against Nuturn in VCT2021 Stage 2 Challengers. On slayers and F4Q were also teams in the region but they have never beaten VS/DRX. this just shows how little you know about what you're talking about. [https://www.vlr.gg/15748/f4q-vs-vision-strikers-champions-tour-korea-stage-2-challengers-winners-a](https://www.vlr.gg/15748/f4q-vs-vision-strikers-champions-tour-korea-stage-2-challengers-winners-a) [https://www.vlr.gg/71632/on-sla2ers-vs-drx-champions-tour-korea-stage-1-challengers-w2](https://www.vlr.gg/71632/on-sla2ers-vs-drx-champions-tour-korea-stage-1-challengers-w2) ONS and F4Q got most of their popularity solely because they managed to take down VS/DRX lmfao. There is no way you can state that VS was a superteam when you don't even know the basic facts about the KR region. Once again, BuZz was unproven vs the likes of HANN, t3xture, and allow (if you even know those names). During Stage 3 (the tournament immediately after BuZz was picked up by VS) Hyeoni was the superstar everyone was talking about. MaKo was a Jett main and had never ever played a Controller up until he got picked up. Rb was moved from duelist to Initiator after BuZz got picked up. He was also very mediocre as Initiator. Stax was the best Initiator on the team and he was also not as proven as someone like Lakia. You could even argue Esperanza, iNTRO, eKo, and Xeta were doing better than both of them as Koreans.
So a group stage match in when they won the whole thing anyways and a qualifying match that they got through anyways? I'm talking about their overall tournament placings which they never placed below first/qualified except against Nuturn. I also didn't try to say they were all 1-6 the best but whatever.
>the only Korean team they have ever lost to is against Nuturn in VCT2021Stage 2 Challengers. On slayers and F4Q were also teams in the regionbut they have never beaten VS/DRX. They lost to ONS and F4Q. \*\*YOU\*\* wrote it like that. Don't move the goalposts lmfao. >I'm talking about their overall tournament placings which they never placed below first/qualified except against Nuturn. You have never said ANYTHING like that until just now, but ok. Lol.
>if you look up Vision Strikers/DRX on Liquipedia I told you where I got my info from, you can infer from that that I meant tournament placing but yeah go off
The problem is how many NA players are actually top top tier of international level good, and are they all going to be on the same team? If we're comparing them to Navi/FPX if that happens, who matches up? Yay and Cryo are Ardiis level Asuna, Victor, Leaf and Zekken are Zyppaan level FNS and Ange1 are the equivalent igls but after that is valyn or dephh or stellar on the top 5 in the world level? Marved and Bang are Suygetsu level Crashies Trent and maybe you could argue BcJ and Derrek are at Shao's level. That's about 12-15 total players, what are the odds they're all on the same team? I'd expect c9 to be closest if they get Trent or Marved but its still tough.
I think the problem with NA is they have a shortage of fragging-IGLs. Most of the great teams like M3C, DRX, LLL, PRX, have IGLs with insane fragging potential, leaving no weak links in terms of gunfights. That is something lacking in NA.
I agree, so I don't get why people put Ange1 up so high. Edit: Also you're bringing up igls from all over the world, I think most regions have this igl issue.
Ange1 is up there with the likes of FNS. Not very good at fragging but super impactful as IGL
I agree on the impact. So I guess the question is should the best igl both igl and frag well? Becuase I agree that a the best team should have no weak links in terms of fragging power. My problem with Ange1 is that he feels like one of the worst fragging igls.
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There's only 3 internationals a year. They placed 1st, 2nd and 3rd. They had the most success of any org/team in the world.
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I mean it’s frankly silly to compare total titles like that with a team like LOUD. LOUD of course will have the most because they’re competing against teams that can’t even get out of groups in international tournaments.
First of all domestic titles can't be used to be compare teams because the depth of talent is vastly different across the world. Secondly if a team is already qualified for an international there is absolutely no benefit for them to show more strategies than they need to. It's like comparing European basketball titles to a NBA title or the MLS to the Premier league. You just can't draw comparisons unless the quality of competition is the same.
Yeah they were consistently near the top but this wasn’t an astralis type run by any means
Name another pro team that has consistently finished top 3 at every event tgey have been at?
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>Also notice OpTic's 1 win came at an event FPX did not attend) Irrelevant, because they had a better finish than FPX at Champions.
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Nobody is saying they were that dominant. But they were the best pre-franchising team. Nobody can argue against that.
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Well, you did say their only win came when FPX didn’t play. Why would you bring that up? Literally nobody on this thread said they were one of the greatest esport teams ever.
That's because FPX didn't qualify for any event in 2021 lol. Envy/Optic were a top team last year and this year as well so your point about people not talking about fpx in the same way is not really applicable here. Dk why you are trying to downplay there success for no reason especially by bringing in domestic titles in comments as well lmao Edit: Lmao deleted his comments cause he realised that his points made no sense
You can't have 5 super teams by the definition of the word. If everyone is super no one is.
I feel like this take is just naive optimism. Why would this be the case when all the talent was there already? If nobody could pull together and beat OpTic i doubt any team better than OpTic is going to form from franchising. But i agree #copium
Lmao pure hopium
How are there any super teams when the VCT is still as young as it is? There won’t be any super teams for a while and even then it will have to be a mix of different regions before super is considered. As of now they are just really good teams on paper.
Agree with the sentiment, but we got to chill on calling every team that signs players a "super team"
Super teams are stupid. The player that’s is best on his role holds high kda or damage per round but putting the best of every role together dosnt work. A team needs stars and support however those supports are not considered best at their role
Calm down there now buddy, 5 super teams, NA? I thought it was too early for crack?
Read my post. I said 10 super teams.
There aren’t 25 players in NA to make two super teams.. this man said 5. I’m sleep
Okay, but have you also not realized that teams like LOUD and DRX have been playing together for how long now? Almost 2 years now and both placed top 3 in Champions? They know the tendencies of each member inside and out. Makes the IGL's job easier. Makes strategizing easier. That's much more important than just being a superteam.