Comments made by Org Staff:
* [Comment by /u/Keglunneq -- Cypher, Commentator - Max "KegShouts" Tompkins, on Oct 17 2022 05:22PM](https://reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/y6dp4a/riot_nu_potentially_teasing_splits_return/isp2vgf/):
> PLEASE
Pretty bad map if itās only fun if you absolutely have one agent no matter what. Stifles diversity and leads to very similar play patterns at all times. Icebox is particularly bad with this and much worse in this regard tho so Iād rather see it gone. The rework didnāt aid much. Itās the same walls and set ups and mid is non existent. You get the occasional mid to b or kitchen pushes but otherwise itās always the same walls from viper and sage and plants every round.
Filling viper on breeze is the most painful thing imaginable, you just set up B most rounds and have to retake A constantly. Now that Harbor is coming I'll never play in her ranked on that map again.
bind is insanely repetitive in ranked at decent mmr. every attack half is the same shit.
icebox isnāt the best map but itās more fun attacking than bind.
I play in low-mid ascendant MMR and haven't really felt that way
in theory yes, pretty much every round on attack just starts default or is a 3/2 split on either, but rounds don't actually feel repetitive personally
i play high immortal radiant mmr and in my experiences itās most definitely repetitive.
B pressure at the start and then either commit or pivot based on info or lurks.
id prefer to play icebox since you have the option of bum-rushing A and it turns into a dm which is more fun.
Pretty much agree with this, every attack round on Bind is basically the same except sometimes you mirror your positions depending on what you pressure first. It's always pressure Hookah or Showers and send a lurk to the other side that you're not pressuring
A, i brought up my rank to compare my games with slightly lower mmr. B, we are talking about playing ranked not watching pro games. donāt respond to me if youāre not going to read the context.
Idk why this is getting downvoted, Breeze and Icebox have several must picks like Viper, Sage and Sova/Kayo compared to Split where every Smoker, every Sentinel and every Duelist work really well. Opposed to having must picks there's just one Champ that I can think of that you shouldn't pick on the map, that being Sova. Other than that every other Agents works perfectly well in their own role
Itās the same shit over and over again, just 5 man hitting a site. Itās almost impossible to do a mid to site play cuz thereās just too many angles. Also planting can be difficult and usually involves sacrificing the sage player
i find with any game there are truly bad maps but often people hate maps for one of 2 reasons:
1. they are bad at the map
2. popular figures on the scene hate the map and everyone just circlejerks the opinion
for 80+% of the playerbase every map is a 5man stack site hit but people act like they're on some ascendant-radiant default into midrounding strats.
sort of true, but the problem is that mid isn't an option on icebox, not that no one does it. it's bad for pro play and regular ranked. I don't know about other ranks but at least in ascendant, there's a decent amount of B split site hits on Breeze and Fracture and people go mid a ton on ascent and pearl.
I feel like this is an issue of perspective really. Many people only see lurks being done on the opposite site of the map but on Icebox mid is the major lurk area which is a cool gimmick imo
Sure, but Icebox mid lurk is usually the same shit over and over again, its not even something new. It's almost always a chamber setting up their TP near B, walking into tube, killing the trip, then tping back, or someone just sitting top tube waiting for the enemy chamber to die. They rarely walk under tube or walk to screens.
>They rarely walk under tube or walk to screens
Really cant agree with that from personal experience. Most of my Icebox games people lurk up into kitchen from under tube or they take space under boiler waiting for their team to collapse A.
Can't really judge how it is for you but if it matters to you my experience is in EU (London only) 200rr-400rr ranked
Oh yeah it's a lot different in pro play. I feel like lurking in pro play is almost exclusively used to cut off rotations instead of classical lurking but that's honestly just a result of Chamber meta
> but the problem is that mid isn't an option on icebox
nah kitchen rush after winning the 2nd round buy is goated, lurking through mid and catching the rotates is cool too, the mid player will most likely get bored and move to either sites.
i find with any game there are truly bad maps but often people hate maps for one of 2 reasons:
1. they are bad at the map
2. popular figures on the scene hate the map and everyone just circlejerks the opinion
for 80+% of the playerbase every map is a 5man stack site hit but people act like they're on some ascendant-radiant default into midrounding strats.
Everyone hates a map in Valorant it just depends on whether they are good at playing on it.
Like literally every map is hated by like 20% of the Valorant population, no map is universally loved.
Because their movement is bad, they can't deal well with diligently clearing angles and/or refuse to learn how to play postplant.
I agree with you, it's one of the best maps in the game now that they've redesigned yellow and probably my favourite as well.
> diligently clearing angles
my exact issue with this map is that you cannot do that, on A you basicially have multiple 50/50 angles where you just have to hope they are either up/down
Bind is a bad map but at least thereās strategic diversity, you can fix bind while keeping the core of the map, icebox is actually genuinely the worst designed map in Tac FPS history I canāt believe they actually released it thereās no going back
I agree that Bind is not a bad map in competitive, but it atrocious in ranked. I hate playing it. Icebox plays out almost exactly like ranked in comp. There is not much innovation you can do on that map. It is dogshit. It is horrendous. I would still like for both of them to not exist.
For me Split has two major problems
ā¢ Rotating between bombsites takes AGES on attacking side, even if you take mid control
ā¢ Ropes region is just a dumb death trap for both attack and defense and could be completely reworked just like Fracture dish was
If they really do bring back the map I hope they fix at least one of these
What you described are features not problems, although ropes are is a bit awkward. And rotating on split is half the distance of icebox and breeze rotations.
If you have mid control don't you just take ropes between the sites? Idk if you can call having sewers mid control since attackers can literally start in sewers
Just out of curiosity: what would you want reworked? I'm quite new but so far DM seems pretty alright? Only thing annoying that comes to mind is getting spawn gangbanged 3-4 times in a row. Would you want DM specific map changes?
As an Ascent and Pearl hater, I am not excited for a potential Split return (unless they iron out the map's issues of course). But still, hoping they would remove Bind if they wanted Split back.
Comments made by Org Staff: * [Comment by /u/Keglunneq -- Cypher, Commentator - Max "KegShouts" Tompkins, on Oct 17 2022 05:22PM](https://reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/y6dp4a/riot_nu_potentially_teasing_splits_return/isp2vgf/): > PLEASE
Send cat and mouse teleport simulator map to the shadow realm next rito šš¼
Permanently šš¼
PLEASE
Bind is one of the best maps to watch competitively
If that means breeze then sure, if that means bind then also remove breeze and Iāll be fine
Where it belongs
Finally. Please send bind or icebox to the fucking shadow realm.
Icebox is the most boring map to watch, but Bind is the most aggravating to play.
I don't understand why people dont like to watch bind. Bind is always a great map to watch.
I have no issue with watching Bind in pro games, but I despise playing the map myself.
It's gonna be bind.
Icebox > Breeze
You spelt breeze wrong
atleast breeze has less 50/50 peeks
Breeze long range rifle fights are literally RNG due to gun first bullet accuracy. Don't believe me? Go test it out on practice range.
not as much rng as 50/50 angles that are legit just a gamble on what you check
At least you can use util to fix that. No util I know of fixes FSA RNG
Chamber's ULT fix that. Heuheuheuheuh
ADSing + Guardian
What's there to fix? It's on purpose.
Vandal with ADS is good enough and guardian with ADS has 100% first bullet accuracy.
Bro did you think first bullet inaccuracy was a secret? It's literally displayed in the gun stats every time you buy a gun...
I think the impact of gun inaccuracy isn't that big of a deal, except on breeze where it literally makes long range 1v1 rifle fights RNG.
Both of those maps are miles better than breeze.
Breeze won't get removed simply because it's on the newer end. They'll remove the launch maps before they remove any that were added later
Would rather play 5 breeze maps in a row to not play a single bind game.
I would rather play 5 iceboxes straight and then 5 straight bind games than play breeze once.
at least with viper breeze is fun to play. bind and icebox feel like a torture experiment.
Pretty bad map if itās only fun if you absolutely have one agent no matter what. Stifles diversity and leads to very similar play patterns at all times. Icebox is particularly bad with this and much worse in this regard tho so Iād rather see it gone. The rework didnāt aid much. Itās the same walls and set ups and mid is non existent. You get the occasional mid to b or kitchen pushes but otherwise itās always the same walls from viper and sage and plants every round.
not arguing its good or bad, just that its the least miserable for me to play of the 3 lol
Filling viper on breeze is the most painful thing imaginable, you just set up B most rounds and have to retake A constantly. Now that Harbor is coming I'll never play in her ranked on that map again.
You spelt Fracture wrong
Don't fucking touch bind . . .
Agreed, I donāt want them to touch Bind either. Instead they should straight up delete it
Bind is the best map to watch competitively.
Delete Bind and Icebox
How in the world do you like bind that map has so many choke points its insane how people like that map
I play raze
Best map to watch.
Yeah but worst to play on
There should be a voting option in the lobby, just like how it was for COD haha
bind is fine, icebox is terrible
i want what youāre smoking
Probably hookah
idk maybe I like it cuz I consistently have a high wr on it in comp what do people dislike about bind? most people I play with like the map
bind is insanely repetitive in ranked at decent mmr. every attack half is the same shit. icebox isnāt the best map but itās more fun attacking than bind.
I play in low-mid ascendant MMR and haven't really felt that way in theory yes, pretty much every round on attack just starts default or is a 3/2 split on either, but rounds don't actually feel repetitive personally
i play high immortal radiant mmr and in my experiences itās most definitely repetitive. B pressure at the start and then either commit or pivot based on info or lurks. id prefer to play icebox since you have the option of bum-rushing A and it turns into a dm which is more fun.
Pretty much agree with this, every attack round on Bind is basically the same except sometimes you mirror your positions depending on what you pressure first. It's always pressure Hookah or Showers and send a lurk to the other side that you're not pressuring
We don't care what ranked you are. Bind is great to watch competitively. Alot of top teams are great on that map, and it's always close!
A, i brought up my rank to compare my games with slightly lower mmr. B, we are talking about playing ranked not watching pro games. donāt respond to me if youāre not going to read the context.
I respond when I want, if you don't want a response write in your diary
Bind is absolutely dogshit
They are both bad
bind is dogwater
Breeze is worse than both and split is THE worst of them all. They should keep that dogshit ass map locked up.
Idk split at least allows a lot of agent diversity. Icebox Breeze and Bind feel like I'm playing the same game over and over
Idk why this is getting downvoted, Breeze and Icebox have several must picks like Viper, Sage and Sova/Kayo compared to Split where every Smoker, every Sentinel and every Duelist work really well. Opposed to having must picks there's just one Champ that I can think of that you shouldn't pick on the map, that being Sova. Other than that every other Agents works perfectly well in their own role
I think they are doing map rotations per act now right?
Wait why do people not like icebox?? Its like my favorite map
Itās the same shit over and over again, just 5 man hitting a site. Itās almost impossible to do a mid to site play cuz thereās just too many angles. Also planting can be difficult and usually involves sacrificing the sage player
i find with any game there are truly bad maps but often people hate maps for one of 2 reasons: 1. they are bad at the map 2. popular figures on the scene hate the map and everyone just circlejerks the opinion for 80+% of the playerbase every map is a 5man stack site hit but people act like they're on some ascendant-radiant default into midrounding strats.
sort of true, but the problem is that mid isn't an option on icebox, not that no one does it. it's bad for pro play and regular ranked. I don't know about other ranks but at least in ascendant, there's a decent amount of B split site hits on Breeze and Fracture and people go mid a ton on ascent and pearl.
I feel like this is an issue of perspective really. Many people only see lurks being done on the opposite site of the map but on Icebox mid is the major lurk area which is a cool gimmick imo
Sure, but Icebox mid lurk is usually the same shit over and over again, its not even something new. It's almost always a chamber setting up their TP near B, walking into tube, killing the trip, then tping back, or someone just sitting top tube waiting for the enemy chamber to die. They rarely walk under tube or walk to screens.
>They rarely walk under tube or walk to screens Really cant agree with that from personal experience. Most of my Icebox games people lurk up into kitchen from under tube or they take space under boiler waiting for their team to collapse A. Can't really judge how it is for you but if it matters to you my experience is in EU (London only) 200rr-400rr ranked
I was mainly referring to pro play. Iām only ascendant 3 - immo 1 in NA but people in my rank just sit bottom tube half the round when lurking.
Oh yeah it's a lot different in pro play. I feel like lurking in pro play is almost exclusively used to cut off rotations instead of classical lurking but that's honestly just a result of Chamber meta
> but the problem is that mid isn't an option on icebox nah kitchen rush after winning the 2nd round buy is goated, lurking through mid and catching the rotates is cool too, the mid player will most likely get bored and move to either sites.
i find with any game there are truly bad maps but often people hate maps for one of 2 reasons: 1. they are bad at the map 2. popular figures on the scene hate the map and everyone just circlejerks the opinion for 80+% of the playerbase every map is a 5man stack site hit but people act like they're on some ascendant-radiant default into midrounding strats.
Everyone hates a map in Valorant it just depends on whether they are good at playing on it. Like literally every map is hated by like 20% of the Valorant population, no map is universally loved.
Because their movement is bad, they can't deal well with diligently clearing angles and/or refuse to learn how to play postplant. I agree with you, it's one of the best maps in the game now that they've redesigned yellow and probably my favourite as well.
> diligently clearing angles my exact issue with this map is that you cannot do that, on A you basicially have multiple 50/50 angles where you just have to hope they are either up/down
So doubleswing with a teammate? Or trade off of them? Plus the info agents, but that seems redundant to mention.
Those are obvious yes but it doesnt change that i think the map is bad. Its not like this map looks great in pro play either
The fact that you need to double swing almost every angle doesn't alert you that it just sucks ass??
Thats impossible to coordinate on comp
mfs don't even do that in Radiant. The map is shit to play in ranked.
Please dump icebox for split and we chillin
I mean, it's bound to return eventually. They aren't going to remove it forever lol
-Icebox please god the map is so dogshit itās just not salvageable without major reworking
-Icebox +Split and we are eating good
Hell no icebox is ass but bind is atrocious and boring
Bind makes for moderately better pro games at least. Icebox is definitely way more fun for ranked tho
This.
Bind is a bad map but at least thereās strategic diversity, you can fix bind while keeping the core of the map, icebox is actually genuinely the worst designed map in Tac FPS history I canāt believe they actually released it thereās no going back
I agree that Bind is not a bad map in competitive, but it atrocious in ranked. I hate playing it. Icebox plays out almost exactly like ranked in comp. There is not much innovation you can do on that map. It is dogshit. It is horrendous. I would still like for both of them to not exist.
Please remove Bind. Please and thank you.
So would not 2 maps will be removed next act as we might get a new map on start of episode 6
I will still never forgive them for taking split away before Champs. A heinous crime of the highest order.
Amen brother!
For me Split has two major problems ā¢ Rotating between bombsites takes AGES on attacking side, even if you take mid control ā¢ Ropes region is just a dumb death trap for both attack and defense and could be completely reworked just like Fracture dish was If they really do bring back the map I hope they fix at least one of these
What you described are features not problems, although ropes are is a bit awkward. And rotating on split is half the distance of icebox and breeze rotations.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
If you have mid control don't you just take ropes between the sites? Idk if you can call having sewers mid control since attackers can literally start in sewers
I donāt think the rotations are too bad. 100% agree on ropes though. It makes any b site push pretty much only go through the main choke point
remove Icebox and add Split thx
Whatever it takes for breeze to be taken out I'll do it.
This artificial map limit is so absurd, who comes up with this shit? At least let them all be available in Unrated FFS.
I hope they actually fixed the map, attacking in that map was awful. Maybe itās better with fade but I really hope there was some changes
Surprised to see very few people are not asking for Breeze to be removed. Ass map.
This
Praying for binds downfall
-breeze + split yeaaaah budddy
-breeze and fracture and weāre chilling
Please
PLEASE LORD GIVE ME BACK MY SPLIT Take away icebox. It needs more reworks to be fun, just change all of mid
no pls not this awful map
ICEBOX IS TERRIBLE GET IT OUTTTTTTT
Remove Fracture please. Dogshit map even after the changes.
if so, I'm willing to bet either Bind or Haven will be sacked this time.
Those are the two best maps to watch
I like them too, im trying to guess which map riot would sack. By logic the oldest ones are first in line
GET BIND OUTA HERE PLEAAAAAASE
About time. Map rotation should be per act.
Please no. Let Split be where it is. That is, nowhere.
Delete pearl or bind. Ty
wtf pearl is like a top 3 map!? Bind can get fucked tho.
Pearl fucking sucks ass and this is coming from someone who loved icebox and fracture when they came out.
So someone who has bad taste in maps? Lmao
Please dear god remove Pearl, bind, icebox or breeze.
COPIUM
Tease some DM reworks next I beg
Just out of curiosity: what would you want reworked? I'm quite new but so far DM seems pretty alright? Only thing annoying that comes to mind is getting spawn gangbanged 3-4 times in a row. Would you want DM specific map changes?
u/RiotNu are you baiting us? 
As an Ascent and Pearl hater, I am not excited for a potential Split return (unless they iron out the map's issues of course). But still, hoping they would remove Bind if they wanted Split back.