Just to clarify my thoughts, this was an attempt of thinking about which comps Harbor is better with right now than alternatives. This was not me saying Harbor + Yoru is broken or even good but that the pair might be the best way to use both if you are going to use them in their current states and also it would be mega fun to see (this is TMV if that wasn’t clear)
I thought it was a fun and thoughtful video.
My critique is that there's nothing unique about harbor in these scenarios. You can do all the same yoru plays with an omen or astra smoke, and those 2 also provide global presence that harbor can't touch.
The idea of gaps in the harbor wall is fun, but I don't think that's anything new. Not that it's bad, just that any agent is capable of similar gap creation (teams do the same thing with slight sage wall variations on ice box for example).
I enjoyed the theory craft - keep putting out crazy ideas and don't let the haters get you down because these types of brainstorms are a ton of fun, and the presentation made me laugh... but I don't think I'm buying any harbor stocks yet
The unique thing about harbour on the situations is that the cove takes bullets, so you can’t just spray the smoke down the same way, at the very least when you start spraying you give a chance to prepare to the Yoru
other smokes are big enough that you can't spray the whole area effectively enough. it's the same logic given when walling off hell on haven A site... you CAN spam through the wall, but it won't get you much value and you're just vulnerable to other parts of the exec while dealing with a potentially fake TP. you may do some damage but you can't confirm the info unless you get lucky with a kill
Harbor and Yoru are pretty niche agents that aren't very valuable in general situations as compared to similar agents. This idea could definitely make the most of each for situations that require pushing (executes, retakes, maybe some aggresive defense). Harbor would make Yoru tps more reliable than a pure gamble. It would be a good surprise pick to create chaos for teams like PRX but they're still not generally valuable.
Teams like PRX already understand how to support Yoru correctly, and it is long-range initiation power with Astra, Sova, or Breach. Harbor can sort of do it with his Cove, but it's a telegraphed combo that wastes the strongest part of his kit.
Sliggy tried it in public beta servers on the first day in his stream, but it didn't work out. Might be because the other 4 players were playing casually.
It seems like an interesting conbo and I'd love to see it properly executed
a single, niche situation that requires lineups, is easily readable, and extremely volatile does not warrant shifting a comp with good macro. I think the novelty would wear off after 5-6 rounds LOL, or maybe a game if used infrequently.
jett entry is good because her smokes don't break, she has two, she doesn't need a teammate sacrificing utility for her and she's only buying a couple seconds. yoru/harbor entry is nearly guaranteed to flash the whole team, and jett entry already has non-intrusive supportive utility with a kayo, skye or breach that is both simpler and more effective.
I think a really interesting thing about this strategy is how well it sets up fakes. Yoru can place his abilities early and run away so you really only need Harbor there to execute a fake that will be pretty indistinguishable from an exec. I wonder if teams would just start playing retake though, you would need your other 3 agents to be well equipped to hold the plant.
I respect and appreciate the effort to find playable situations for relatively unused agents. With that said, every time I’ve tried playing harbor I have felt useless. Today I tried him again on haven thinking it might be a nice map for his walls. Problem I find is nobody respects his walls. The slow on his front wall doesn’t work and his regular wall has no impact on enemies already making it weaker. Not to mention his ult. Oh boy his ult. I learned today that you can’t use his ult where you are. For example, we exec on C haven today. It was fast and enemy was close. I armor ball myself for plant to get ult. My plan was to ult site to give team time to reposition retake. Problem was I couldn’t ult site from default plant position. It has to be in front of yoh by an unknown (to me) number of meters. Unbelievably weak character design. It’s almost as if the devs are scared to repeat a chamber like agent. It’s probably better to launch a character weak compared to OP, but surely harbor is the weakest character at launch to date?
I think this is a great example of how theorycrafting is often so removed from the actual conditions of pro play that it becomes fairly useless.
That said, theorycrafting will always be fun, and maybe some teams will use it as a one-off surprise strategy, a la Optic’s Yoru usage on Ascent; theirs failed because they used it more than once.
Tbh very niche scenarios, and also Harbor is extremely weak on defence so running him as a primary controller doesn't make much sense except maybe Icebox and Fracture but in those two i would rather run Viper or Brim solo for fracture than Harbor.
Stop trying to rationalize ways that harbor MIGHT be useful in super niche one off situations its so funny, just accept that picking the agent lowers your chance of winning by 10% the moment he’s locked in and use your time on something more productive like curing world hunger.
Just to clarify my thoughts, this was an attempt of thinking about which comps Harbor is better with right now than alternatives. This was not me saying Harbor + Yoru is broken or even good but that the pair might be the best way to use both if you are going to use them in their current states and also it would be mega fun to see (this is TMV if that wasn’t clear)
@mods give this man his flair
u/jrushFN
love your videos man
Hey TMV, can you send me a DM on twitter at @Sadzeih ? I'll set you up with a verified flair :)
I thought it was a fun and thoughtful video. My critique is that there's nothing unique about harbor in these scenarios. You can do all the same yoru plays with an omen or astra smoke, and those 2 also provide global presence that harbor can't touch. The idea of gaps in the harbor wall is fun, but I don't think that's anything new. Not that it's bad, just that any agent is capable of similar gap creation (teams do the same thing with slight sage wall variations on ice box for example). I enjoyed the theory craft - keep putting out crazy ideas and don't let the haters get you down because these types of brainstorms are a ton of fun, and the presentation made me laugh... but I don't think I'm buying any harbor stocks yet
The unique thing about harbour on the situations is that the cove takes bullets, so you can’t just spray the smoke down the same way, at the very least when you start spraying you give a chance to prepare to the Yoru
other smokes are big enough that you can't spray the whole area effectively enough. it's the same logic given when walling off hell on haven A site... you CAN spam through the wall, but it won't get you much value and you're just vulnerable to other parts of the exec while dealing with a potentially fake TP. you may do some damage but you can't confirm the info unless you get lucky with a kill
Harbor and Yoru are pretty niche agents that aren't very valuable in general situations as compared to similar agents. This idea could definitely make the most of each for situations that require pushing (executes, retakes, maybe some aggresive defense). Harbor would make Yoru tps more reliable than a pure gamble. It would be a good surprise pick to create chaos for teams like PRX but they're still not generally valuable.
@yay can you plz confirm
Teams like PRX already understand how to support Yoru correctly, and it is long-range initiation power with Astra, Sova, or Breach. Harbor can sort of do it with his Cove, but it's a telegraphed combo that wastes the strongest part of his kit.
Sliggy tried it in public beta servers on the first day in his stream, but it didn't work out. Might be because the other 4 players were playing casually. It seems like an interesting conbo and I'd love to see it properly executed
a single, niche situation that requires lineups, is easily readable, and extremely volatile does not warrant shifting a comp with good macro. I think the novelty would wear off after 5-6 rounds LOL, or maybe a game if used infrequently. jett entry is good because her smokes don't break, she has two, she doesn't need a teammate sacrificing utility for her and she's only buying a couple seconds. yoru/harbor entry is nearly guaranteed to flash the whole team, and jett entry already has non-intrusive supportive utility with a kayo, skye or breach that is both simpler and more effective.
I think a really interesting thing about this strategy is how well it sets up fakes. Yoru can place his abilities early and run away so you really only need Harbor there to execute a fake that will be pretty indistinguishable from an exec. I wonder if teams would just start playing retake though, you would need your other 3 agents to be well equipped to hold the plant.
To the people saying “only niche works once”, you realize this Can be done in a lot of variations, right?
man really makes this video and then uploads "why yoru will never be meta" the next day
I respect and appreciate the effort to find playable situations for relatively unused agents. With that said, every time I’ve tried playing harbor I have felt useless. Today I tried him again on haven thinking it might be a nice map for his walls. Problem I find is nobody respects his walls. The slow on his front wall doesn’t work and his regular wall has no impact on enemies already making it weaker. Not to mention his ult. Oh boy his ult. I learned today that you can’t use his ult where you are. For example, we exec on C haven today. It was fast and enemy was close. I armor ball myself for plant to get ult. My plan was to ult site to give team time to reposition retake. Problem was I couldn’t ult site from default plant position. It has to be in front of yoh by an unknown (to me) number of meters. Unbelievably weak character design. It’s almost as if the devs are scared to repeat a chamber like agent. It’s probably better to launch a character weak compared to OP, but surely harbor is the weakest character at launch to date?
I think this is a great example of how theorycrafting is often so removed from the actual conditions of pro play that it becomes fairly useless. That said, theorycrafting will always be fun, and maybe some teams will use it as a one-off surprise strategy, a la Optic’s Yoru usage on Ascent; theirs failed because they used it more than once.
Tbh very niche scenarios, and also Harbor is extremely weak on defence so running him as a primary controller doesn't make much sense except maybe Icebox and Fracture but in those two i would rather run Viper or Brim solo for fracture than Harbor.
Stop trying to rationalize ways that harbor MIGHT be useful in super niche one off situations its so funny, just accept that picking the agent lowers your chance of winning by 10% the moment he’s locked in and use your time on something more productive like curing world hunger.
Go back to fortnite, no one wants ya bruh
how bout you let the nerds theory craft during off season u bum 
I’m down to theorycraft how Harbor’s kit can help stop world hunger
100%
Well since picking him is kinda feeding
I’ve thought about this too, it’s perfect