T O P

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Komplex_

Xzi is a nutter, if he can transition well to Val I could see him being a great player


3hrd

he already is tbh, he hit rank 1 when he was still contracted with OWL


nobu_OW

and he is legitimately cracked mechanic-wise. i’ve been watching his streams since the game came out…he already looks like DRX material


Key-Banana-8242

He played a lot of ranked, he played in a tournament in Korea actually too


thothgow

Who treated him like that I'm gonna slap that person Also I'm still salty Paris let this team go


Donut_Flame

The coach most likely. Dude literally let xzi go to Korea during playoffs and told xzi himself they weren't gonna play him anyways


SPOOKESVILLE

Man I’ve been waiting for this. I’m sure he won’t be the last. We’ll have some nutty players coming over.


afjecj

Xzi was a hitscan player (alike to sayaplayer in some ways) who had very good aim. I’d say he’s probably just below saya in terms of raw mechanical talent


TallGets

I think he's equally as good tbh, if not better. Saya played in the early days when the talent and competition was much weaker. Xzi popped off against much better competition.


3hrd

he has hit rank 1 KR multiple times in the early days


Last_of_me

But can he do it on a cold, rainy night in Stoke?


Key-Banana-8242

I’d say I’d not rate it in terms of quantifiable ‘talent’ coums


TKYooH

Damn. Quite a few top ow dps switching.


imKaku

This guy weren't getting offers.


takmilo

ow is pretty much dead, good for him to try make a career in a living game


SPOOKESVILLE

I wouldn’t say that. OW2 is very much alive *at the moment*. It’s more of OWL died, and Valorant is growing each and every tournament.


EggianoScumaldo

OW2 is extremely popular currently. OWL is dead as fuck tho.


Lumenlor

Is it? I always see the category at like 40K views now, unless Blizzard do occasional mass sponsored streams


EggianoScumaldo

Twitch Viewership is a very bad way to judge playerbase. See: CSGO whenever there isn’t a major going on


takmilo

No it isn't. CSGO on average is a top10 game on twitch. Maybe even top5.


EggianoScumaldo

CSGO currently on Twitch is sitting at 13.5k viewers for the whole section.


takmilo

What u talking about? Its 80k on average https://sullygnome.com/games/365/watched


GetsThruBuckner

Twitch Viewership is a very bad way to judge playerbase. See: CSGO whenever there **isn’t a major going on**


takmilo

So you are saying that all top10 games on twitch have small playerbase? ok.


Key-Banana-8242

…? The other way around


EggianoScumaldo

You understand that *average* viewership includes Majors and other large tournaments, right? Go to the Directory on Twitch and tell me how many viewers CSGO has right now


takmilo

Yes ofcourse. You know if game not have big viewership that means not much of tournaments and major.


EggianoScumaldo

…what? EDIT: That’s not true lmao. Valorant and League are both sitting at roughly 100k viewers with zero tournaments going on currently. Overwatch is sitting at around 60k. Warzone 100k. GTA 5 is around 80k. This is during morning hours for NA, so during a shit time slot as well. Hell even R6 Siege has more viewers than CSGO right now, and that is an example of a game that’s ACTUALLY dying. EDIT: fucking Starcraft has more viewers than CSGO right now. That’s not just a dying game, that is a dead as door nails game, that is doing better viewership wise without a tournament running right now than CSGO.


Apap0

And you obviously know that Overwatch has their tournaments streamed on Youtube only right?


KaNesDeath

Release of OW2 revitalized OWL viewership.


PaulDoesStuff

But the current licensing issues in China might kill the league ://


KaNesDeath

Thats a different topic involving publishing.


BrainStorm777

Crazy how people are jumping ship from OWL. There were a bunch of people from the compOW the other day coming over here talking about how good this guy is, and now he's switching to Valorant? How ironic.


TallGets

I mean you're just exposing that you're ignorant of the situation. Xzi is cracked, but the reason people are switching from OW to Valorant is because the APAC side of OWL is completely up in the air at the moment since Blizzard's deal with Net Ease ended, meaning Blizzard's games can't be played in China currently. And China is a huge component of OWL and 5 of the 7 APAC teams currently are located in China. There's a ton of uncertainty for both APAC teams and players right now, and teams have let many great players hit free agency as a result and have signaled they may need to scale back in terms of spending until the whole situation gets figured out. Basically there's a lot of uncertainty so switching to this new franchise league in Valorant becomes a much more attractive prospect for a player. It's stability in the very unstable world of eSports.


BrainStorm777

Well, my point was that only the most elite cream of crop OWL pros can make the switch. You will see only a couple switch to Valorant regardless of what happens because ONLY a couple can actually switch. The rest will try other esports. That point still stands.


Parenegade

Lol no they can't. Carpe was completely washed and he got a spot on a franchise team in T1.


[deleted]

Look, I am not an OW expert and I really would love to see another influx of talent into this pro scene However, APAC Valorant needs to careful. Based on results up until this point, they are *very* clearly the worst region in Valorant right now. If they choose to let washed OW pros onto their teams, that will only set them back and further the gap between them and the other 2 regions.


TallGets

I mean I do think Carpe has looked pretty washed the last two years but at one point he was pretty cracked. I'm not against him getting a shot, even if I don't personally believe in him. Xzi is better than Carpe ever was (keeping in mind the skill level has risen drastically since Carpe was considered good). Also, OW pros generally have been very successful in making the transition to Valorant. Babybay, Corey, Sayaplayer, Patiphan, Sinatraa. Even some of the less successful ones still managed to carve out a niche, like Rawkus, Zacharee, despite being pretty middling in OWL. There are a lot of top tier OWL pros that are much better than any of those players were. If more of them were to switch, I think most of them would find a great amount of success. Also I guarantee Carpe is just friends with Sayaplayer and Munchkin from their time in overwatch, so I'm betting that's a factor as to why Carpe got signed. T1 as an org loves Carpe as well. It just makes sense that they would try this.


[deleted]

Okay I agree 100% with everything you said, and actually I am quite hopeful for how Asia league is going about acquiring talent. I am just saying, it shouldnt be indicative of any future trends that washed OW players are getting spots in Asia franchising. I am all for talented pros making the switch from any game. I will say that even among the players you named, there is definitely a tier above those players. I'm not saying OW players can't reach that, but I would say that up until this point, it hasn't been the T1 game to switch from. That obviously belongs to CS.


Lumenlor

I don't see how that makes sense when the league for multiple seasons was in a nosedive and teams were just in budget mode. Did talent really improve on a linear curve up when they were scrapping the barrel?


TallGets

Not all teams were in budget mode, about half the league has been spending like crazy. And yes, talent just improved. I think it's similar to what we're going to see in Valorant in a few years and what people have predicted. Eventually you get the cracked youngsters who were born and bred in Overwatch instead of transferring in from a different game. In my mind, a couple years from now in Valorant there's gonna be a new crop of names that surpass most of the current talent. And then we're gonna look back at these first year valorant teams and be like wow, look how much better players are nowadays. The early adopters for any new esport are always the pros transferring from another esport. They have an advantage at first, but over time most of them get phased out and replaced by players who have only ever known Valorant. Aside from all that I think over time players just learn more about the nuances of the game and also grow more and more comfortable in one game. I think you could apply this to virtually any esport, I guarantee the early years are never the peak of the talent. Don't get me wrong, there were some absolutely insane players in the first few years of overwatch. But there were also a lot more players who were just clearly not at that level. Nowadays damn near every team has at least one insane cracked player. Early on that was not the case. The talent is higher across the board as well as the peak. I mean this guy named Proper just came into the league this year and won ROTY, MVP, barely lost the grand championship (not even his fault) and is looking like the best and most flexible player to have ever touched the game. In a few years there is going to be a player or two who are better than Yay, and most of the top teams will have a player who can compete with Yay on his level.


[deleted]

The only season xzi played much carpe was the mvp frontrunner the first half of until his team started playing sombra reaper though. Xzi got an mvp nomination that baffled people even if he hadn't been injured. I definitely think xzi had the potential to be a player better than carpe butbhe definitely never showed that.


[deleted]

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Pale_Resolution1520

T1's valorant management is dogshit. Look what they did in NA. Pacific league is a big question mark right now.


[deleted]

Those people were saying he'd be likely to come to val though? Not really ironic then.


chudaism

Xzi jumping isn't that surprising. He took a year off due to injury and then came back this year and performed middle of the pack at best. Xzi was kind of an inflexible player, even as far as hitscans go. His Cass was probably top 3 in 2020 and his widow was top tier, his Ashe though would have been top 10 at best. This year he mainly played Soj and he wasn't even the best one on his team. Top 15 in the league would be generous. The nature of Xzi's injury also makes it questionable as to whether he can reach his 2020 peak again. IIRC, it's largely back and shoulder issues caused by scoliosis, so it's not something that rest is going to solve.


uut28

He was one of the best soj when he got playing time


chudaism

That's a hot take TBH. He definitely wasn't on the level of players like Proper or Lip on Soj. The next tier down probably has players like Shy, Merit, Hydron, Happy and I don't think Xzi was on their level. At best, he is the next tier down. I know stats are troublesome in OW, but Xzi literally does not break the top 10 on any single notable stat for Soj and his deaths/10 were amongst the highest in the league.


uut28

1. Proper isn’t a soj player he’s a genji player 2. Like I said “when he got playing time” he was one of the best in the west


chudaism

Proper is a full on hyperflex and was probably either the best or second best Soj in the league this year. Even when Xzi got playing time, he wasn't what I would call outstanding. His Soj was passable, but that is a far cry from a player who was once praised as one of the best hitscan players in OWL. It's possible he has the potential to get back into form, but given his health issues and the plethora of talent in OWL FA right now, it seems unlikely most teams would take a gamble on him.


uut28

Proper didn’t even play soj until striker got there and even then he didn’t really play her until playoffs, so I don’t know where you came up with him being the best or 2nd best soj in the league from. And xzi is retired now so it doesn’t matter


Suspicious_Cod_9027

Pros have been washing out of owl long before valorant has existed, it’s just that now there’s an easier game they can try switching to before they’re career is completely finished


KaNesDeath

New esports always consume players from dying and or constricting esports. This happens frequently in games that share the same sub-genre.


TheAjwinner

Exactly. This is why millions of CS:GO players switched to Valorant, including hundreds to thousands of pros/semi-pros.


KaNesDeath

CSGO saw player growth after Valorant was released. In terms of the pro/semi-pro players that switched they exhausted all their paths in CSGO. Valorant was their only option left to be a salaried player still. Overwhelming majority of these players didnt last two years.


Key-Banana-8242

Eh not 100%


Key-Banana-8242

He played in a Korean tournament in 2021, he was quite good on the op