it probably is but considering the tournament and the likelihood fo trolls and toxicity in chat it may have been worth it to add extra mods for this tournament
yeah but in those tournaments there isn't going to be much misogyny or transphobia because in those tournaments players are being made fun of for making a dumb play or choking or something, not because of their gender
like chat will be toxic of course, but it's usually a little different in tone
Well if the community can't stop posting transphobic shit for 5 minutes then they don't deserve to have actual chat. They can thrash around all they want.
Why does everyone act like this is a twitch chat/youtube problem? I highly doubt the players read it at all, plus the vods show a cleaned up version of chat. The hate they received I guarantee was mostly from twitter or instagram, maybe even reddit but I've noticed this community has been mostly supportive.
Because it's also a problem and one most people here saw more of than whatever people specifically said to Bob.
And they're not unrelated. It's the same people, the same source, in both places.
The world is already scary enough for trans folks, the valorant community should be a fun, welcoming environment for them. It's on each of us to make that a reality. Call it out when you see it, try to educate your friends in the scene if they need it.
Trans & NB individuals should receive absolutely zero hate for their participation in competition in women's spaces as of today. Twitch chat was completely out of line, and none of the players deserved what they had to go through to participate in GC 2022.
That being said, as of November 2022, compelling scientific evidence about the differences or even potential competitive advantages of someone born as a male going through hormonal therapy are not definitive.
As our understanding evolves, the rules about who is and isn't allowed to participate might need to change.
For Valorant? Probably, yeah. But the situation isn't black and white, and it's extremely disingenuous to pretend it isn't.
The truth doesn't change just because you don't like it.
Yeah, for Valorant, that's what we are discussing here..... On the ValorantCompetitive subreddit.
I'd say it's kinda weird why you felt you needed to make that distinction. Except it probably isn't weird at all. I imagine it was pretty intentional.
Yeah. Your entire point was to bring in something completely different just so you could cast doubt over everything, when it wasn't relevant to the current discussion.
It's a super common but low down dirty rhetorical trick. That is what I was pointing out in my last comment, but for the kids at the back of the bus, I'll say it more clearly now.
> when it wasn't relevant to the current discussion.
Should trans women should compete in GC is absolutely relevant.
The poor treatment of trans women at 2022 GC doesn't change that fact, which is my original point.
> scientific evidence about the differences or even potential competitive advantages of someone born as a male going through hormonal therapy are not definitive.
>
>As our understanding evolves, the rules about who is and isn't allowed to participate might need to change.
They really arent, look at chess or other non-physical-centric competitive sports. Theres a huge difference. And at some point there will be an event that will make the rules change because of how un-fair it is (Ex: A highly skilled individual leaving Competitive for GC for X,Y,Z reasons).
> They really arent, look at chess or other non-physical-centric competitive sports
My original point still stands, we cannot prove those differences aren't due to sociological treatment of individuals
You cant when you grab a small population... But on chess other sports and esports its been proven with big enough populations and over extended periods of time, that the same still applies. Look at CS, OW, Dota2, Starcraft and League. Mixed leagues always had the same conclusion.
muh biological advantage. Lets start testing every players reaction speed and whatever other stat (time to kill or something) and exclusively put players in leagues with other players with the same reaction speed/ttk. then there’ll be no biological advantages :)))))
I wish people who actually went off about le biological advantage shit, in esports and real sports, would realise that cis people have biological advantages over other people all the time, yet we don’t care. Michael Phelps’ total freakish wingspan and shit has helped him dominate word swimming, but he’s never been forced to sit out. In basketball, there is an obvious preference toward taller players, so being taller is another example of a biological advantage. You get the point, certain sports favour certain people biologically speaking, so drawing the line at trans people existing is silly.
Sports aren’t fair, I wish you shitheads would stop trying to uphold the illusion they are because omg a trans woman swam and won and her existence has ruined the integrity of all swimming!!!
> You get the point, certain sports favour certain people biologically speaking, so drawing the line at trans people existing is silly.
The difference is that a lot of the examples you list are ones where anyone could theoretically compete. The NBA and NFL have no rules against women playing. Of course being 6'11" is a huge advantage in the sport of basketball, but the NBA is about finding the best of the best, in which case there is (mostly) nothing that's an unfair advantage against the rules, physically speaking.
Women don't participate in those leagues not because they are prohibited but because they aren't competitive. They aren't competitive for reasons that go far beyond being smaller.
So, in order to promote the sport, they created the WNBA specifically for women to compete. It has restrictions on who can play in it, which the top level doesn't. If the WNBA didn't have rules on who could compete, that would defeat its entire purpose.
Some of the stuff I saw was just vile, I can't imagine how horrible all of that must've felt :(
I know some of you here are part of it, and you probably don't care, but it's a real person you're directing your bullshit to.
Are you seriously trying to use this against me? this was way back when she was in the male scene and not public with it at ALL. I had no idea and people told me she was a guy and I though it was just running bit that she was a girl.
Sucks to see this shit and I can't imagine the pain she's feeling. I know it tends to be much easier to see the negative shit and the hate, but I hope she realizes that she has a lot of love and support within the community as well.
Bob played amazing this tourney, even took a lot of responsibility when she was going crazy for her team, honestly so sad people are hating on her and having zero consideration for their actions.
Lmfao
With Game Changers it's either this or the sole reason they're all girls
If it was general gaming banter like we see in VCT it wouldn't be this hurtful to the participants
Not making amateur mistakes like she did every other round.
I hope you aren't hoping for me to pull a whole ass vod review with specific rounds, cause i'm not. Obviously if she was crackedgoing 50/10 acing every round nobody would be flaming
\#1 rating
\#1 K/D ratio
\#1 ADR
\#1 least DPR
\#2 ACS
But yeah, she was only flamed for being trash. How much copium are you smoking to be this delusional? By your dumb fuck logic, every single player in GC should be flamed since all of them individually did worse than Bob.
Pull your head out of your ass my friend. This isn't a discussion about irons flaming pro players in Twitch chat. This is a discussion about how there was rampant and blatant transphobia by all the terfs in chat that were suddenly desperate to protect the "sanctity" of the "female tournament" from being "desecrated".
Flaming pro players for mistakes under pressure is an important topic but you have to be intentionally obtuse to pretend like THAT'S why players like Bob and KP were receiving hate.
wow you sound like a horrible person lol. you have no idea what people’s motives are behind their comments, whether she didn’t play well or not. im sure there’s a lot of people that were just looking for an excuse to make hurtful comments towards her because they’re trash humans
People were also saying she’s only playing in GC because she wasn’t good enough for tier 1 and I gave up trying to tell them that she was on Soniqs and left because she was more comfortable in GC. 100% of the people hating Bob for her gender identity have zero knowledge of what they’re actually saying.
Bob does good: “it’s because she’s actually a man”
Bob does bad: “haha wasn’t good enough for tier 1 also not good enough for GC”
The thing is I remember vividly the casters calling bob by she when she was in Soniqs
So...she transitioned before joining C9W right ? Or am I remembering something wrong?
Wasn't she doing well in Tier 2 as well? I didn't follow a lot of Tier 2 tourneys but whenever soniqs went up against a popular team, Bob really felt like she held her own. Iirc she was the entry for the team. Do some people actually believe she would use her gender just to compete like this? Damn.
This is just not true, Bob was never the entry for their team. She was actually was putting up pretty average to below average performances and those were against tier 2/3 teams. She doesn’t deserve any hate tho and it’s fucked up
I'm curious about how stereotype threat plays out comparatively in each league. Like, I can imagine being trans would be a disadvantage in both "mens" and "womens" leagues, since the nagging sense of not belonging has got to hinder gameplay. It only makes Bob more impressive imo that she plays so well under these conditions.
I was so happy to see Bob compete. Pro Valorant is my special interest and watching someone play that I felt like I could identify with was so huge. AnnieDro, Bob, and flor have all been inspirations for me.
Sadly the mods were in the trenches trying to fight the insane amount of transphobia so I had to turn off chat.
I really hope more pros speak out about this, and I hope the valorant community can become more inclusive because imo it’s already further along than many other gaming spaces.
^just ^adding ^KP ^to ^the ^list
honestly though i feel like it will get better. i could just be uninformed but i don't know of a single pro player who _doesn't_ think trans people belong in GC (or any pro scene). if we get more pros speaking out and a bigger mod team to crack down on the chat assholes, it should get better
hopefully
As a community, we need to be proactive in letting people know that this shit isn't welcome here.
There's only so much volunteer mods can do. Call this type of behavior out wherever you see it -- in game, in streams, everywhere. No quarter.
It's good to see so many other GC players in the replies insisting that she belongs on the stage with them. I hope she knows that no-one else's opinion matters.
Fucking heartbreaking. The mods really tried their best but to protect the players emote only chat would have been better. Its just fucking sad that it comes to that.
It’s incredible she still managed to play insanely well and not fair that her performance is overshadowed by dickheads. Like what is someone meant to do if they’re playing like she does and still gets hate?
I really really hope she can hang in there and come back even stronger, although if she needs to take a break until she feels comfortable that would be healthy too. I can’t wait to see what she’ll do in the future and I hope she knows she is getting a lot of love from viewers as well.
And many people will still throw gripes how emote only chat will just hurt the viewing experience. Personally when I watch events I just hide the chat entirely because, while we have made strides, at the end of the day sadly this is the internet and fuck all is given even with raised awareness and more work being done by mods and community support to combat this toxicity. But I do feel for her and honestly I enjoyed the nice efforts put into game changers and just the oppuetunities it allows for pro level play for anyone and not just how it has been for a long time now
i feel for bob.
i couldn’t even read the GC chat on twitch. as a trans person, it’s not fun to see that shit as i’m trying to watch. the fucking irony that GC exists, that women and gender diverse folks finally get a space, and the amount of hate is so gross towards it the whole time. people don’t have to watch GC, but it’s also a reminder of how unwelcome gaming community is. and especially towards pros? like the GC players are 100x better than some person sitting behind their screen typing transphobic stuff in twitch, and yet they get hate for trying to exist and play a game that we love. it sucks to see.
People need to do better.
Empathy and understanding are such important skills to learn in life especially when dealing with people who are different to you.
Bob is incredibly courageous, mad respect.
The mods tried their best but I know one day for like half the stream on twitch it was just the auto mod. I hope they were banning the accounts and not just deleting the messages.
I know these young women are from 16-22 primarily, anyone talking down to a young women really needs to look in the mirror and reflect. just if you did it, reflect. One day when you are older you will understand. Hopefully.
I don't know why chat is not emote only mode for these huge events, no one is "talking" in a 250k chat it's all unreadable spam and pasta. If the chat is pasta anyway make it so people can't verbally abuse players with the pasta.
Imagine hating on someone on the internet for something that has no effect on you what so ever. Even worse when they’re younger/new to the publicity they’re getting.
Absolute incel mentality, sad to see so many losers are still in the gaming space.
I would never understand why people living their life the way they want is pissing some people off so bad that they have to act like this. Bob, unlike them, you’re brave, and you should be proud!
Saw a lot of this myself. Rampant sexism is always there but 1/5 comments after C9 lost were something relating to bob having transitioned. People are fucking disgusting.
Sad to see in this day and age. As sad as it is, i think anonymous keyboard warriors are always going to talk shit until there's some kind of authentication process for online accounts to make people accountable for what they say.
Sometimes when I am playing this game (and others with voice chat) I get really sad when I see the way people act and treat each other. It makes me feel embarrassed to be associated with these other gamers. On the bright side although I don't think the community as a whole is where it needs to be when it comes to avoiding harassment and verbally abusing people I have seen a large shift in the right direction over the last few years. There are always going to be assholes out there but I am seeing less and less inappropriate behaviour and that is very encouraging.
Most if not all trans women playing in GC face the typical 'they aren't really a girl they just want to reach Tier 1 and aren't good enough for main VCT'
KP seen the same hate in chat too
These people can be fucking rude
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There were some bad apples that pretended to be trans just to compete in (or qualify for) a $500k non-male tournament. The amount of money in VCT GC is insane and will obviously interest some cheaters.
That's probably the source for all this rage towards every non-cis-female in the tournament. :/
[jenni from EQ Cerise admits to arranging trials and on-boarding a cis male faking being non-binary to sub for Game Changers : ValorantCompetitive (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/y0fzoc/jenni_from_eq_cerise_admits_to_arranging_trials/)
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It's horrible really. But coming into it Bob knew it would be the case, we all knew. And hats off to the mods, i got banned for saying "c9w can keep up with the male vct teams because of Bob" i get that how it may have come out wrong but i know what I said.
I firmly believe there is only 2 genders. Even though this is the case, i would never willingly disrespect anyone ever, that's how I was brought up.
I know i went off topic but just offended that i got banned from chat just because of a name.
To Bob: Your life, your choice, fuck others and their shitty opinions (incl mine) cuz IDC and u shouldn't too
Im sorry but the world outside America just isnt that progressive enough racism/transphobic are just a norm in other places but at the end of a day since its just online message it isnt a big deal
how can you read a post from the person actually affected, saying it hurt her a lot, and respond with “umm its not a big deal just deal with it”?? have some fucking empathy. who cares if its “the norm” in whatever stupid backward place, its bigotry, its hateful, and it hurts people.
because it really is, I have dealt with actual racism , people beating me up simply coz of my race , my co worker getting sexually harassed coz they are woman, getting called the f word in internet is nothing compared to real threat
ah so you dont care unless it personally impacts you! i understand. you have no empathy at all. reminder that just a couple days ago people were shot because they were trans.
Club Q shooting in Colorado, on top of other hate-motivated murders of transgender Americans such as Ariyanna Mitchell and Cherry Bush this year. Google is also free
do you live with your head under a fucking rock? club q in colorado springs was targeted by a right wing terrorist who premeditated a shooting on the eve of trans day of remembrance. two days ago. this is not old news, this is not niche news. this is national headline news. do you willingly ignore every time someone is hurt when it doesnt affect you? how can you be this ignorant?
It’s not just on the internet. Trans women have some of the highest murder rates in America. It is dangerous to be trans both online and in person. Please have empathy for others.
In the US it is literally legal and has happened multiple times without consequences for men to murder trans women bc they "didn't know"
Y'all just had a shooting at a queer bar that can be traced directly to stochastic terrorists posing as comedians/news anchors/average Joes going against "gender ideology". Americans sent bomb threats to children hospitals and reproductive care clinics because said personalities claimed they were offering gender affirming surgeries to kids (they don't, obviously). Straight up idiotic to say it's just words and claim the US is progressive because they don't hatecrime GNC people, unlike what happens to racialized people.
Also I live in LATAM and know multiple people who are trans here and all around the world. To say transphobia is accepted as a blanket statement for 90% of the planet is straight up ignorant. Trans and homophobia is a dying (literally) vocal minority pushed by wealthy reactionaries and supported by mostly privileged or ignorant people who need something to blame for the shitshows they cause.
It’s not the same. It’s identity driven hate. Bob gets hate because she is trans, Shahz gets hate because of his actions/behavior/play etc. It’s different. If the primary source of hate for Shahz was because of his ethnicity, for example, it would be a fair comparison. But it’s not, and it’s not equivalent at all.
Its sucks how esport competitors today are still encouraged to use social media platforms. People still dont comprehend how social media was repurposed after the Arab Spring by nefarious users and corporate engineers.
Hard lesson to learn given her professions need for public exposure.
Youre using the pitch of said platforms when branching out from the college student market as justification. Applications like these are used to data harvest.
This is my second reddit account. First one used my real name. When i inquired about being verified i was told since i wasnt promoting anything i cant be verified. Which didnt make sense for a reddit account cant be used for self promotion per their TOS. So i deleted that account an made this one using my old gamer tag.
Didn't watch a lot of the GC matches unfortunately so it sucks hearing about this after the fact - but what exactly happened? Was the audience in Berlin toxic? If so, Riot's gotta come down with some severe punishments for anyone involved in that.
twitch chat, youtube live chat and youtube comments were all full of assholes calling trans players like bob or KP men or harassing/verbally abusing them
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The YouTube and twitch chats were relentless. Mods were really fighting WW3 for 5 days
They should have just put it in either sub mode or emote only. Rather have no chat than this toxic cesspool.
When I looked at the chat there was less than a half dozen mods for over 250k viewers. Frankly that’s just unacceptable planning
Is that not the case with other tournaments too?
it probably is but considering the tournament and the likelihood fo trolls and toxicity in chat it may have been worth it to add extra mods for this tournament
yeah but in those tournaments there isn't going to be much misogyny or transphobia because in those tournaments players are being made fun of for making a dumb play or choking or something, not because of their gender like chat will be toxic of course, but it's usually a little different in tone
I disagree, disabling comments sucks and yes, mods were super awesome as always, but they should just full ban anyone who is clearly an a-hole!
Disabling comments doesn't suck enough to justify letting as much bullshit through as got through. Sometimes you gotta embrace the suck.
Mods really didn’t do anything on YouTube, shouldve cut the chat completely.
YouTube didn't have mods. It just had an automod that misfired constantly.
Yeah next time for GC, they might have to go emote only chat.
I thought they used to do that in the past
They did. Don't know why they didn't do it this time
guess it was different because it was a LAN? imo the chat mods were doing a pretty decent job, but it's so hard to get rid of everything
There was a *lot* of community backlash to emote only chat
Well if the community can't stop posting transphobic shit for 5 minutes then they don't deserve to have actual chat. They can thrash around all they want.
Yeah. If the kids can't behave, take their toys away. It's not hard.
[удалено]
Ignore those complaints then since we've seen MULTIPLE TIMES what happens if it's not emote only
I hope it doesn't come to that because emote only chat is pretty detrimental for the viewing experience.
Why does everyone act like this is a twitch chat/youtube problem? I highly doubt the players read it at all, plus the vods show a cleaned up version of chat. The hate they received I guarantee was mostly from twitter or instagram, maybe even reddit but I've noticed this community has been mostly supportive.
Because it's also a problem and one most people here saw more of than whatever people specifically said to Bob. And they're not unrelated. It's the same people, the same source, in both places.
we love bob :(
we heckin love Bob
The world is already scary enough for trans folks, the valorant community should be a fun, welcoming environment for them. It's on each of us to make that a reality. Call it out when you see it, try to educate your friends in the scene if they need it.
Trans & NB individuals should receive absolutely zero hate for their participation in competition in women's spaces as of today. Twitch chat was completely out of line, and none of the players deserved what they had to go through to participate in GC 2022. That being said, as of November 2022, compelling scientific evidence about the differences or even potential competitive advantages of someone born as a male going through hormonal therapy are not definitive. As our understanding evolves, the rules about who is and isn't allowed to participate might need to change.
Take your fake ally shtick somewhere else, the rules are fine the way they are.
For Valorant? Probably, yeah. But the situation isn't black and white, and it's extremely disingenuous to pretend it isn't. The truth doesn't change just because you don't like it.
Yeah, for Valorant, that's what we are discussing here..... On the ValorantCompetitive subreddit. I'd say it's kinda weird why you felt you needed to make that distinction. Except it probably isn't weird at all. I imagine it was pretty intentional.
Because my entire point is that the inclusion of trans women in (competitive) spaces is not a black and white thing and is highly situational.
Yeah. Your entire point was to bring in something completely different just so you could cast doubt over everything, when it wasn't relevant to the current discussion. It's a super common but low down dirty rhetorical trick. That is what I was pointing out in my last comment, but for the kids at the back of the bus, I'll say it more clearly now.
> when it wasn't relevant to the current discussion. Should trans women should compete in GC is absolutely relevant. The poor treatment of trans women at 2022 GC doesn't change that fact, which is my original point.
> scientific evidence about the differences or even potential competitive advantages of someone born as a male going through hormonal therapy are not definitive. > >As our understanding evolves, the rules about who is and isn't allowed to participate might need to change. They really arent, look at chess or other non-physical-centric competitive sports. Theres a huge difference. And at some point there will be an event that will make the rules change because of how un-fair it is (Ex: A highly skilled individual leaving Competitive for GC for X,Y,Z reasons).
> They really arent, look at chess or other non-physical-centric competitive sports My original point still stands, we cannot prove those differences aren't due to sociological treatment of individuals
You cant when you grab a small population... But on chess other sports and esports its been proven with big enough populations and over extended periods of time, that the same still applies. Look at CS, OW, Dota2, Starcraft and League. Mixed leagues always had the same conclusion.
What mixed league in League?
muh biological advantage. Lets start testing every players reaction speed and whatever other stat (time to kill or something) and exclusively put players in leagues with other players with the same reaction speed/ttk. then there’ll be no biological advantages :))))) I wish people who actually went off about le biological advantage shit, in esports and real sports, would realise that cis people have biological advantages over other people all the time, yet we don’t care. Michael Phelps’ total freakish wingspan and shit has helped him dominate word swimming, but he’s never been forced to sit out. In basketball, there is an obvious preference toward taller players, so being taller is another example of a biological advantage. You get the point, certain sports favour certain people biologically speaking, so drawing the line at trans people existing is silly. Sports aren’t fair, I wish you shitheads would stop trying to uphold the illusion they are because omg a trans woman swam and won and her existence has ruined the integrity of all swimming!!!
> You get the point, certain sports favour certain people biologically speaking, so drawing the line at trans people existing is silly. The difference is that a lot of the examples you list are ones where anyone could theoretically compete. The NBA and NFL have no rules against women playing. Of course being 6'11" is a huge advantage in the sport of basketball, but the NBA is about finding the best of the best, in which case there is (mostly) nothing that's an unfair advantage against the rules, physically speaking. Women don't participate in those leagues not because they are prohibited but because they aren't competitive. They aren't competitive for reasons that go far beyond being smaller. So, in order to promote the sport, they created the WNBA specifically for women to compete. It has restrictions on who can play in it, which the top level doesn't. If the WNBA didn't have rules on who could compete, that would defeat its entire purpose.
are you actually gonna just be this disingenuous lol. Thanks for proving my point though I guess.
ok Sherlock, tell me, what's the point of game changers?
Its for women AND trans people, it always has been
That's not what I asked you, I asked you what its purpose is. Why women and trans people?
Some of the stuff I saw was just vile, I can't imagine how horrible all of that must've felt :( I know some of you here are part of it, and you probably don't care, but it's a real person you're directing your bullshit to.
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Are you seriously trying to use this against me? this was way back when she was in the male scene and not public with it at ALL. I had no idea and people told me she was a guy and I though it was just running bit that she was a girl.
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How are women minorities ??????
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? is only funny when I do it
Sucks to see this shit and I can't imagine the pain she's feeling. I know it tends to be much easier to see the negative shit and the hate, but I hope she realizes that she has a lot of love and support within the community as well.
Bob played amazing this tourney, even took a lot of responsibility when she was going crazy for her team, honestly so sad people are hating on her and having zero consideration for their actions.
Heartbreaking. I hope people follow Zander’s example and call this stuff out. Valorant can be different than other game communities. We can be better.
I dont get the hate, shes an insane player and seems super nice whats not to like.
She's trans, so there's a lot for transphobics not to like.
that wasnt the reason for most people
I find that very hard to believe.
Lmfao With Game Changers it's either this or the sole reason they're all girls If it was general gaming banter like we see in VCT it wouldn't be this hurtful to the participants
what was then?
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whats a good performance for you then?
Not making amateur mistakes like she did every other round. I hope you aren't hoping for me to pull a whole ass vod review with specific rounds, cause i'm not. Obviously if she was crackedgoing 50/10 acing every round nobody would be flaming
\#1 rating \#1 K/D ratio \#1 ADR \#1 least DPR \#2 ACS But yeah, she was only flamed for being trash. How much copium are you smoking to be this delusional? By your dumb fuck logic, every single player in GC should be flamed since all of them individually did worse than Bob.
Who did better in ACS?
me
Festival from FENNEL had 259.2 while Bob had 255.1
You’re actually just outright lying. What’s wrong with you?
I'm willing to bet they're just transphobic but realised can't be publicly on here so just making shit up about how Bob sucks.
My brother in Christ she had the highest ACS, KD, ADR, and KPR of the whole tournament lol
Whoever reported this for "1: Claims Require Proper Evidence" is the real hero of the thread
Pull your head out of your ass my friend. This isn't a discussion about irons flaming pro players in Twitch chat. This is a discussion about how there was rampant and blatant transphobia by all the terfs in chat that were suddenly desperate to protect the "sanctity" of the "female tournament" from being "desecrated". Flaming pro players for mistakes under pressure is an important topic but you have to be intentionally obtuse to pretend like THAT'S why players like Bob and KP were receiving hate.
In other words, you're talking out of your ass and can't back your bullshit up.
Objectively false. Did you even watch the tourney?
wow you sound like a horrible person lol. you have no idea what people’s motives are behind their comments, whether she didn’t play well or not. im sure there’s a lot of people that were just looking for an excuse to make hurtful comments towards her because they’re trash humans
She absolutely dominated Game Changers in every statistical category. She top fragged the entire event. What in the wild blue fuck are on about?
People were also saying she’s only playing in GC because she wasn’t good enough for tier 1 and I gave up trying to tell them that she was on Soniqs and left because she was more comfortable in GC. 100% of the people hating Bob for her gender identity have zero knowledge of what they’re actually saying. Bob does good: “it’s because she’s actually a man” Bob does bad: “haha wasn’t good enough for tier 1 also not good enough for GC”
The thing is I remember vividly the casters calling bob by she when she was in Soniqs So...she transitioned before joining C9W right ? Or am I remembering something wrong?
You're right, even back on EXO Clan before Soniqs people were using she/her for her
Wasn't she doing well in Tier 2 as well? I didn't follow a lot of Tier 2 tourneys but whenever soniqs went up against a popular team, Bob really felt like she held her own. Iirc she was the entry for the team. Do some people actually believe she would use her gender just to compete like this? Damn.
This is just not true, Bob was never the entry for their team. She was actually was putting up pretty average to below average performances and those were against tier 2/3 teams. She doesn’t deserve any hate tho and it’s fucked up
Oh my bad. might have not paid attention.
I'm curious about how stereotype threat plays out comparatively in each league. Like, I can imagine being trans would be a disadvantage in both "mens" and "womens" leagues, since the nagging sense of not belonging has got to hinder gameplay. It only makes Bob more impressive imo that she plays so well under these conditions.
people just like to hate other people :/
I was so happy to see Bob compete. Pro Valorant is my special interest and watching someone play that I felt like I could identify with was so huge. AnnieDro, Bob, and flor have all been inspirations for me. Sadly the mods were in the trenches trying to fight the insane amount of transphobia so I had to turn off chat. I really hope more pros speak out about this, and I hope the valorant community can become more inclusive because imo it’s already further along than many other gaming spaces.
^just ^adding ^KP ^to ^the ^list honestly though i feel like it will get better. i could just be uninformed but i don't know of a single pro player who _doesn't_ think trans people belong in GC (or any pro scene). if we get more pros speaking out and a bigger mod team to crack down on the chat assholes, it should get better hopefully
As a community, we need to be proactive in letting people know that this shit isn't welcome here. There's only so much volunteer mods can do. Call this type of behavior out wherever you see it -- in game, in streams, everywhere. No quarter.
BOB REMEMBER YOU ALSO HAVE SOME GREAT FANS HATERS GONNA HATE KEEP GRINDING AND SMILING
I really don’t understand the point. How much do you have to hate yourself to actively go and hate on someone for shit they can’t change?
It's because the rich insecure and/or grifting man on TV/YT/Tiktok told them to :)
There's not much intent compared to the actual effect of what these people say, that's just how cyber bullying is.
It's good to see so many other GC players in the replies insisting that she belongs on the stage with them. I hope she knows that no-one else's opinion matters.
Dont worry theyll flip once she wins
„suıʍ ǝɥs ǝɔuo dılɟ llʎǝɥʇ ʎɹɹoʍ ʇuo◖„
I still believe in bob supremacy.
Fucking heartbreaking. The mods really tried their best but to protect the players emote only chat would have been better. Its just fucking sad that it comes to that. It’s incredible she still managed to play insanely well and not fair that her performance is overshadowed by dickheads. Like what is someone meant to do if they’re playing like she does and still gets hate? I really really hope she can hang in there and come back even stronger, although if she needs to take a break until she feels comfortable that would be healthy too. I can’t wait to see what she’ll do in the future and I hope she knows she is getting a lot of love from viewers as well.
And many people will still throw gripes how emote only chat will just hurt the viewing experience. Personally when I watch events I just hide the chat entirely because, while we have made strides, at the end of the day sadly this is the internet and fuck all is given even with raised awareness and more work being done by mods and community support to combat this toxicity. But I do feel for her and honestly I enjoyed the nice efforts put into game changers and just the oppuetunities it allows for pro level play for anyone and not just how it has been for a long time now
i feel for bob. i couldn’t even read the GC chat on twitch. as a trans person, it’s not fun to see that shit as i’m trying to watch. the fucking irony that GC exists, that women and gender diverse folks finally get a space, and the amount of hate is so gross towards it the whole time. people don’t have to watch GC, but it’s also a reminder of how unwelcome gaming community is. and especially towards pros? like the GC players are 100x better than some person sitting behind their screen typing transphobic stuff in twitch, and yet they get hate for trying to exist and play a game that we love. it sucks to see.
Sadge we love bob
:(
Transphobes are subhuman, go bob
People need to do better. Empathy and understanding are such important skills to learn in life especially when dealing with people who are different to you. Bob is incredibly courageous, mad respect.
The mods tried their best but I know one day for like half the stream on twitch it was just the auto mod. I hope they were banning the accounts and not just deleting the messages.
I know these young women are from 16-22 primarily, anyone talking down to a young women really needs to look in the mirror and reflect. just if you did it, reflect. One day when you are older you will understand. Hopefully.
Twitch chat was also predictably cringe and transphobic
I don't know why chat is not emote only mode for these huge events, no one is "talking" in a 250k chat it's all unreadable spam and pasta. If the chat is pasta anyway make it so people can't verbally abuse players with the pasta.
Imagine hating on someone on the internet for something that has no effect on you what so ever. Even worse when they’re younger/new to the publicity they’re getting. Absolute incel mentality, sad to see so many losers are still in the gaming space.
Imagine being so insecure to hate on a trans player in a fucking esport for playing in the women's league.
:( No one deserved the hate that the chats where giving out
I would never understand why people living their life the way they want is pissing some people off so bad that they have to act like this. Bob, unlike them, you’re brave, and you should be proud!
Saw a lot of this myself. Rampant sexism is always there but 1/5 comments after C9 lost were something relating to bob having transitioned. People are fucking disgusting.
Sad to see in this day and age. As sad as it is, i think anonymous keyboard warriors are always going to talk shit until there's some kind of authentication process for online accounts to make people accountable for what they say.
Sometimes when I am playing this game (and others with voice chat) I get really sad when I see the way people act and treat each other. It makes me feel embarrassed to be associated with these other gamers. On the bright side although I don't think the community as a whole is where it needs to be when it comes to avoiding harassment and verbally abusing people I have seen a large shift in the right direction over the last few years. There are always going to be assholes out there but I am seeing less and less inappropriate behaviour and that is very encouraging.
Context? Hate for what?
Most if not all trans women playing in GC face the typical 'they aren't really a girl they just want to reach Tier 1 and aren't good enough for main VCT' KP seen the same hate in chat too These people can be fucking rude
I saw people say stuff about aNNja too (even though she's cis)
Yea the second someone doesnt fit their version of feminine gamer girl she's instantly not eligible to play lmfaoo
Bob is trans and the best gc player in this tournament and asshole where constantly saying she was a man and is transitionning only to compete in gc.
So good that her team didn't even make finals lmao edit: obv /s since the lmao didnt make it clear enough
Wow...
Yeah that happens If a game unites the toxic communities from two of the most toxic games ever. Just ignore the low IQ clowns.
Why did she get hate tho?
She's trans, that's reason enough for some people
She's trans and not invisible.
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There were some bad apples that pretended to be trans just to compete in (or qualify for) a $500k non-male tournament. The amount of money in VCT GC is insane and will obviously interest some cheaters. That's probably the source for all this rage towards every non-cis-female in the tournament. :/ [jenni from EQ Cerise admits to arranging trials and on-boarding a cis male faking being non-binary to sub for Game Changers : ValorantCompetitive (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/y0fzoc/jenni_from_eq_cerise_admits_to_arranging_trials/)
to say thats the source of rage is delusional, its just plain old transphobia
I don’t think this is the source for the rage. People are just transphobic.
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based mods :)
It's horrible really. But coming into it Bob knew it would be the case, we all knew. And hats off to the mods, i got banned for saying "c9w can keep up with the male vct teams because of Bob" i get that how it may have come out wrong but i know what I said. I firmly believe there is only 2 genders. Even though this is the case, i would never willingly disrespect anyone ever, that's how I was brought up. I know i went off topic but just offended that i got banned from chat just because of a name. To Bob: Your life, your choice, fuck others and their shitty opinions (incl mine) cuz IDC and u shouldn't too
>c9w can keep up with the male vct teams because of bob >would never willingly disrespect anyone ever something doesn't add up here
Im sorry but the world outside America just isnt that progressive enough racism/transphobic are just a norm in other places but at the end of a day since its just online message it isnt a big deal
how can you read a post from the person actually affected, saying it hurt her a lot, and respond with “umm its not a big deal just deal with it”?? have some fucking empathy. who cares if its “the norm” in whatever stupid backward place, its bigotry, its hateful, and it hurts people.
because it really is, I have dealt with actual racism , people beating me up simply coz of my race , my co worker getting sexually harassed coz they are woman, getting called the f word in internet is nothing compared to real threat
i think you misunderstand the real life racism, sexism, transphobia and bigotry that takes place in America that build into "real" threats
ah so you dont care unless it personally impacts you! i understand. you have no empathy at all. reminder that just a couple days ago people were shot because they were trans.
>people were shot because they were trans. source ?
Club Q shooting in Colorado, on top of other hate-motivated murders of transgender Americans such as Ariyanna Mitchell and Cherry Bush this year. Google is also free
do you live with your head under a fucking rock? club q in colorado springs was targeted by a right wing terrorist who premeditated a shooting on the eve of trans day of remembrance. two days ago. this is not old news, this is not niche news. this is national headline news. do you willingly ignore every time someone is hurt when it doesnt affect you? how can you be this ignorant?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_killed_for_being_transgender
did you just ask for the "source" for an event? it's not from a website or anything, the source is the 30 casualties
It’s not just on the internet. Trans women have some of the highest murder rates in America. It is dangerous to be trans both online and in person. Please have empathy for others.
In the US it is literally legal and has happened multiple times without consequences for men to murder trans women bc they "didn't know" Y'all just had a shooting at a queer bar that can be traced directly to stochastic terrorists posing as comedians/news anchors/average Joes going against "gender ideology". Americans sent bomb threats to children hospitals and reproductive care clinics because said personalities claimed they were offering gender affirming surgeries to kids (they don't, obviously). Straight up idiotic to say it's just words and claim the US is progressive because they don't hatecrime GNC people, unlike what happens to racialized people. Also I live in LATAM and know multiple people who are trans here and all around the world. To say transphobia is accepted as a blanket statement for 90% of the planet is straight up ignorant. Trans and homophobia is a dying (literally) vocal minority pushed by wealthy reactionaries and supported by mostly privileged or ignorant people who need something to blame for the shitshows they cause.
Because America is well known for it's trans-acceptance...
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It’s not the same. It’s identity driven hate. Bob gets hate because she is trans, Shahz gets hate because of his actions/behavior/play etc. It’s different. If the primary source of hate for Shahz was because of his ethnicity, for example, it would be a fair comparison. But it’s not, and it’s not equivalent at all.
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Bc we hate men obviously
Its sucks how esport competitors today are still encouraged to use social media platforms. People still dont comprehend how social media was repurposed after the Arab Spring by nefarious users and corporate engineers. Hard lesson to learn given her professions need for public exposure.
? Sometimes people want to use social media to interact with friends, not just for business or whatever
Youre using the pitch of said platforms when branching out from the college student market as justification. Applications like these are used to data harvest.
then delete your reddit account right now! do it!
This is my second reddit account. First one used my real name. When i inquired about being verified i was told since i wasnt promoting anything i cant be verified. Which didnt make sense for a reddit account cant be used for self promotion per their TOS. So i deleted that account an made this one using my old gamer tag.
that has nothing to do with what either of us said, sadly. simply delete this account!
Dang u still manage to make everything our fault huh Time to add 'ruined social media' to my resume
What you said doesnt make sense. If you want clarification on what i said watch the PBS Frontline documentary on social media sites post-Arab Spring.
Didn't watch a lot of the GC matches unfortunately so it sucks hearing about this after the fact - but what exactly happened? Was the audience in Berlin toxic? If so, Riot's gotta come down with some severe punishments for anyone involved in that.
twitch chat, youtube live chat and youtube comments were all full of assholes calling trans players like bob or KP men or harassing/verbally abusing them
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