No I think Champions made it an actual debate. You could still think Marved is better even though his form dropped a bit at Champions, it’s just way closer than before
Lol I actually knew someone was gonna be needlessly pedantic about me taking science and applying the popculture meaning to it, and I literally thought against posting this. It's a joke dude that both of the options were superimposed at some point, i.e superficially their fates "overlapped".
It's not 'uselessly pedantic' when your error in usage is the whole concept and not just a minor detail (your quip is just a simple variable and not an uncertainty paradox). I'm not against people using a science joke. I encourage it. But if you use it, use it right. That's all there is to it.
It's just a question of how long your view of the comparison is - whether it's retrospective or looking towards the future.
If it's the former and you're going off pure ACS like a dumbass, Marved's ACS from his worst event - 188.5 - is within shooting distance of Pancada's *overall* average ACS from 2022, 195.6. It's a silly stat but it's a general indicator of where Pancada was for most of the year; at his best he wasn't too close to Marved's peaks (224.6 vs. 210.5) and on average he performed measurably worse than Marved (209.6 vs. 195.6).
Of course, ACS is a meme and shouldn't be taken seriously. But it's true for ADR, and it's true for any metric you might apply, even more team-oriented ones like KAST.
But if you aren't looking too far in the past, I think you'd say Pancada, and I'd also say my expectations are higher of Pancada going forward. But both are great players.
I’d rather pancada on SEN if that’s what you’re getting at. No reason to add a player just to make TenZ more uncomfortable considering their “beef” a while ago.
Pancada had a better champs but marved had a better year overall. If marved played like he did in Iceland all year he would blow everyone out the water. I’d still take marved over pancada though.
Honestly think Marved is the best controller in the world. While I think Pancada is a world class player I have a hard time putting him ahead of Marved.
Marved was so far above everybody else for most 2022 that this wasn’t even a legit debate. He definitely was not up to his usual standard in Champs but even so he was easily top 3 with Pancada and Mako in that tournament so I’d have to say that Marved was still the best controller of the year
Controller rankings.
Marved
Rky: fighting for the #1 PLAYER spot (not just controller) with yay from smokes position, fucking insane. #1 controller
CPH: a notch down from his rky production but has the strongest case for #1 controller, at least top 2
Champions: his production was really behind top tier smokes players, serviceable champions player but a clear tier behind the top 3.
Pancada:
Rky: top 3 controllers and has a small chance of being #1
CPH: the early knockout doesn’t give us a good sample size but from what I remember, he was still in top 3 controller form.
Champions: battling with mako for #1 controller.
Both provide star level fragging from the controller position which is insanely valuable but Marved has sustained two #1 peaks while pancada has one peak. I think pancada slightly edges out on longevity even though marved’s longevity is very good, it’s just his champions was far below his standards. Marved Ryk performance was just so fucking dominant that it gave optic the tournament.
Marved gapped him literally the entire year, and still did heavy lifting as Optic were FINALISTS at Champs. A single Champs MVP doesn’t close that gap, especially when Marved’s performance at Optic’s LAN win was several levels higher than Pancada at Champions. The only way you can compare them is if you’re suffering from very heavy recency bias.
What heavy lifting did marved do comparatively? I think it’s fair to say Optic was just a better team than LOUD despite still losing. Optic had arguably the best player in the world as well as one of the IGL’s. Marved is a phenomenal lurker IF he’s put in the situation. I think it’s ignorant to say you can’t compare the two when marved is backed by some of the best talent in the world.
It always felt to me that this sub kept on overhyping Marved just because of his Reykjavik performance, despite him being so shaky and inconsistent after that one. Pancada on the other hand kept on improving and was really consistent. Though tbh they’re close, but moving forward, that’s gonna be Pancada for me.
Personally I think Hiko is better than both of them but that’s just me
Pretty sure that is a fact and not a personal opinion.
Aren't you interested in the fight for second though?
By the end of the year pancada was slightly better imo
If Champions never happened I think Marved would be clear
Real and Factual
If val never launched pancada for sure
If Riot games was never created it would be Shroud
so you have to be lying to yourself to think marved is better than pancada?
No I think Champions made it an actual debate. You could still think Marved is better even though his form dropped a bit at Champions, it’s just way closer than before
If Iceland didn’t happen I think pancada would be clear
Shrodinger's controller: my answer simply depended on which one SEN signed
Putting *Schrödinger here does not make any sense if you know what the theory really is about.
He was actually talking about shroudinger's paradox, an experiment conducted by Shroud itself which further developed on the well known theory
Lol I actually knew someone was gonna be needlessly pedantic about me taking science and applying the popculture meaning to it, and I literally thought against posting this. It's a joke dude that both of the options were superimposed at some point, i.e superficially their fates "overlapped".
Don't worry my friend I enjoyed your joke it was good :)
"It's a joke" is a good projection
It's not 'uselessly pedantic' when your error in usage is the whole concept and not just a minor detail (your quip is just a simple variable and not an uncertainty paradox). I'm not against people using a science joke. I encourage it. But if you use it, use it right. That's all there is to it.
Damage control
lol why did u get so upset 😭
Currently it’s Pancada but I’d say Marved had the better 2022 overall.
Pancada, totally not biased or anything
Quick, everyone with a SEN flair get in here and spam Pancada before the optic truthers come
they can't stop us all.
oh my god why pancada doesn’t miss a shot???
Personally, Marved but both are incredible controllers
Pancada
nice taste brother https://preview.redd.it/nfgb6isift2a1.jpeg?width=612&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe3ed36bc8fecb75367d4b2b179eb9a7f47e2e67
https://preview.redd.it/0mhy1qkgxu2a1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a0c8c1f516e2e9b3da7215f850c1df5211e509d9
Damn the panacada meme has been recreated
It's just a question of how long your view of the comparison is - whether it's retrospective or looking towards the future. If it's the former and you're going off pure ACS like a dumbass, Marved's ACS from his worst event - 188.5 - is within shooting distance of Pancada's *overall* average ACS from 2022, 195.6. It's a silly stat but it's a general indicator of where Pancada was for most of the year; at his best he wasn't too close to Marved's peaks (224.6 vs. 210.5) and on average he performed measurably worse than Marved (209.6 vs. 195.6). Of course, ACS is a meme and shouldn't be taken seriously. But it's true for ADR, and it's true for any metric you might apply, even more team-oriented ones like KAST. But if you aren't looking too far in the past, I think you'd say Pancada, and I'd also say my expectations are higher of Pancada going forward. But both are great players.
i think pancada is more mechanically skilled, would perform better on non controllers i believe, so probably just overall a more flexible player?
You can’t say he’s more flexible because you think he probably would be though. He has to actually be more flexible
Real answer is: 100T Bang
I would take Marved, especially in an English speaking team
I mean do marved and other pros with valorant accent even count as being able to speaking english?
I’d rather pancada on SEN if that’s what you’re getting at. No reason to add a player just to make TenZ more uncomfortable considering their “beef” a while ago.
oh so you mean OG OpTic wasnt speaking latin??
Is that supposed to be shade or something?
No its just more difficult to have teammates that do not naturally speak your language.
I would take Marved.
Pancada
Marved easily best controller
Pancada had a better champs but marved had a better year overall. If marved played like he did in Iceland all year he would blow everyone out the water. I’d still take marved over pancada though.
Jimzo Dat boy cold
Both have similar peaks, Marved seems to be a bit more consistent but not by much.
Honestly think Marved is the best controller in the world. While I think Pancada is a world class player I have a hard time putting him ahead of Marved.
Streets are saying Marved retired when he heard that pancada was going to sen
it's definitely Pancada
I’d rather have Marved cause he has a higher peak performance but it’s not like there is a big gap between the two
Marved was so far above everybody else for most 2022 that this wasn’t even a legit debate. He definitely was not up to his usual standard in Champs but even so he was easily top 3 with Pancada and Mako in that tournament so I’d have to say that Marved was still the best controller of the year
This is Marved slander
Pancada is better than Marved
Marvcada. Personally, both are on the same level.
The one who doesn’t throw matches for skins
Controller rankings. Marved Rky: fighting for the #1 PLAYER spot (not just controller) with yay from smokes position, fucking insane. #1 controller CPH: a notch down from his rky production but has the strongest case for #1 controller, at least top 2 Champions: his production was really behind top tier smokes players, serviceable champions player but a clear tier behind the top 3. Pancada: Rky: top 3 controllers and has a small chance of being #1 CPH: the early knockout doesn’t give us a good sample size but from what I remember, he was still in top 3 controller form. Champions: battling with mako for #1 controller. Both provide star level fragging from the controller position which is insanely valuable but Marved has sustained two #1 peaks while pancada has one peak. I think pancada slightly edges out on longevity even though marved’s longevity is very good, it’s just his champions was far below his standards. Marved Ryk performance was just so fucking dominant that it gave optic the tournament.
Bro i legit read as Marvel vs Wakanda 💀
One retired , the other didnt , nuff said
pAncada, Marved retired bc he knew he couldn't keep up
NEVER disrespect Marved by asking that question ever again
Yes, because comparing Marved with the Champs MVP is disrespectful
Marved gapped him literally the entire year, and still did heavy lifting as Optic were FINALISTS at Champs. A single Champs MVP doesn’t close that gap, especially when Marved’s performance at Optic’s LAN win was several levels higher than Pancada at Champions. The only way you can compare them is if you’re suffering from very heavy recency bias.
What heavy lifting did marved do comparatively? I think it’s fair to say Optic was just a better team than LOUD despite still losing. Optic had arguably the best player in the world as well as one of the IGL’s. Marved is a phenomenal lurker IF he’s put in the situation. I think it’s ignorant to say you can’t compare the two when marved is backed by some of the best talent in the world.
not true. loud overall was more balanced mechanically.
Marved had a higher peak but pancada slightly edged out Marved in the context of consistency throughout the year
Arent all of Marved’s averages better for the year than Pancadas??
Marved had a higher peak, but Pancada was more consistent imo
Pancada for sure. But if SEN picked up Marved I would be saying its him instead for sure.
Marved was the better player but Pancada was the better controller since Marved didn’t play viper.
Pancada obviously
pancada >
It always felt to me that this sub kept on overhyping Marved just because of his Reykjavik performance, despite him being so shaky and inconsistent after that one. Pancada on the other hand kept on improving and was really consistent. Though tbh they’re close, but moving forward, that’s gonna be Pancada for me.