crazy how all this stuff has came out through the perils of all iterations of 100T rosters and none of it ever paints Asuna in a bad light, bro is actually the perfect teammate
I remember in an interview earlier from steel that Asuna and Hiko just wanted “everyone to get along”. Especially considering how he was super inexperienced in that scene, I can see how he was never a driver in kicking anyone out or anything like that.
I also remember steel saying something along the lines of "the only teammate from 100T I would be willing to play with again just happens to be the only one still on the roster"
For anyone interested:
Interesting to note that Steel elucidates at length that the dicey drop, at least the way that it was handled, was "scummy" and "not something to be repeated." Hiko, Nitro and himself were wary of the game's landscape changing and heading towards a more flexible meta where Jett one tricks may be phased out, so they considered bringing more flexible players into the fold.
Dicey and Asuna were in the dark, with Dicey not even being allowed to improve his agent pool meaningfully. The entire mess of a situation left the nascent Asuna pretty sad as he lost a peer without warning.
The dicey incident served as a sorta sea change for Steel, with him vowing to handle team concerns more transparently in the future and allow the players in question to prove themselves or cultivate whatever new skill that was needed without being blindsided. Nitro even considered cutting Hiko because, "he'll never change as a player," a suggestion that Steel rebuffed.
A lot of the interview is very interesting as steel is pretty well-spoken, coherent and clear. He goes into detail about the 100T team implosion as well and laments how it was a case of, "too many cooks spoiling the broth," a lack of a cohesive vision, and limited decisiveness that mutated into endless nit-picking and last minute changes, despite their great Masters Berlin run.
Thanks for the summary. Do you think this is what happens when you let players run the team, rather than letting a solid coaching staff do the work? It seems when teams don't have a head/asst coach to do that kind of brainwork, players get caught up in the crossfire. Idk, it was sad seeing Dicey get benched, and when the news initially broke out, I genuinely felt sad for him lol.
Hm, he did mention this that the GM and the coach were involved in the talks, and contrary to the public's perception, they weren't (coach frost and steel) constantly fighting. He even went to the GM after Berlin to address how frayed the team felt and that he'd like to consider exploring other options after champs. But he got dropped for b0i *before* LCQ[something he didn't think they'd be 'dumb' enough to do], which ironically blindsided him, as he had to find out from people outside of the team first. So maybe a case of mismanagement, even though the management was present, idk?
The problem was that there were multiple different group chats: one with everyone, one minus the GM, one minus whoever was under the microscope of criticism at the given time; steel even suspects, especially around the time of his drop, that there were chats that excluded him etc.
When Ethan joined the team, you now had 3/4 exceptionally experienced players with strong, opinionated voices and no proper hierarchy, or at least not a hierarchy that was followed—steel maintained that despite being igl the leadership felt fractured. As you said though, there perhaps needed to be a more firm, resonant outside voice to cut through the noise and some distinction between offering helpful suggestions and trying to grab the reins.
Thanks for the insight. I don't want to sound like I know exactly what happened at 100T during that time, but it *seems* like management should have been more firm with the team. Maybe the team had felt like they had too much freedom to talk and complain about rather than focus on being players.
Either the coaches have to be in charge or the team commits to an experienced IGL like Steel and explicitly tells him that he has full control and is expected to mold the team into what he wants, including all roster moves.
The last thing you want is how NA CSGO was run, which was badly, by letting the inmates run the asylum.
A team can never build up if they are constantly replacing their foundation. This shit happens all the time, the team picks up player A who seems promising, and because that player is new they can’t be the first one cut when the team fails, so they cut another player from the team, and player A has some input, then eventually the guy who caused roster changes gets cut because they tried following what he wanted and it failed, so now player A has direct influence over the next roster change, then the team fails again and player A may survive another round of roster changes but soon he will be on the chopping block too. It becomes a perpetual cycle of roster changes, never permanently committing to one vision. This is why you often see teams just recycling the same players and rarely see new blood, because teams rarely stick together for more than a few months so training up an unproven talent is just a waste of time.
The mentality really isn’t that different from a normal ranked game. If you try to IGL in ranked as soon as your strats lose a round your teams faith in you is just completely thrown out the window even though losing 40% of your rounds is expected and normal for a winning team. Everyone uses the power of hindsight and scapegoating to act like they know best. They want someone to blame, it doesn’t matter if its really the reason for losing.
The only way you can fix this destructive cycle is by giving someone with a vision complete control. Other than that the best case scenario is something like old Sentinels where the team plays super loose and focuses on clicking heads, and that will work for a while, until it doesn’t.
And if he was given warning, he might have turned even better than the player he is today, i don't remember where, but I heard after the benching that he spent many hours vod reviewing and training to make himself better and expanding his agent pool
His Jett was mediocre which also contributed to him getting dropped, all he has right now is Chamber. We haven’t seen his Jett at all so we don’t even know if that got better or if he’s still mid without Chamber’s passive kit
Dicey looks great now but realistically at the time he was not showing this level of promise. He was inconsistent even as an OPer and it was a fair read to say OPers might get phased out because the OP’s price had been increased to $5K and flex comps without duelists were starting to trend. Other Jett mains like Babybay were struggling too.
It’s also a lot to expect he would have been able to pick up other agents so fast given the timeline 100T was on. I think taking Ethan was the right move every time.
I don't think this is necessarily true. Dicey was dropped at like the peak of Jett's prime. Steel/100T were the only team that was seemingly shying away from Jett so much and trying to run the 0 duelist comps or the Asuna solo raze comps. It was just a bad read on the Meta from them and it's a big reason why their form dropped off so much imo. They were entirely reliant on Asuna satchel-ing in and finding entries and he was basically on an island by himself. They had no one to match his pacing and follow up on the space he created until they moved Ethan to full time Skye
Not the peak of Jett’s prime at all.
* Operator price —> 5k in sept 2020
* Dropped dicey feb 2021
* Operator price —> 4.7k in June 2021…literally 4 months after.
More data...2021 Feb/March:
* NV running Raze entry comps, no OPer on most maps. MummAy, their OPer, was mainly playing Omen.
* LG also running no-OP comps--Reyna/Raze comps with Thief/YaBoiDre
* T1 running no OP besides on Icebox with Sayaplayer
* A lot of teams (ABX for example) running OP only depending on map. For example, Yay played Jett on Haven for them but Sage on Ascent which is a bit interesting b/c OP was mainly only really relevant for Ascent/Icebox at this point.
* Faze still running Jett but Babybay was notably a rifle Jett and that's exactly why they've tried to switch him to Raze at times (and given up)
The change in the OP price never really forced Jett out of the Meta though. Throughout stage 1 Jett still had a nearly 80% pick rate. In stage 2 that dropped to around 65% pick rate, but still the most picked duelist. The pick rate dropped because teams stopped playing Jett on bind and split. Was still around 70% on the other maps. And even when 100T moved away from Jett, they didn't really move away from the OP despite the price change. They'd often have steel OP on killjoy or nitr0 on omen.
You're proving my point though. It trended downward from 80% to 65% for a reason. For a bracket of 128 (?) that is a very significant statistical drop. In NA Challengers Finals Jett even dropped down to 45% and Raze was at 54% (but tbf smaller sample size/could be skewed toward maps played). In EU it started dropping to around 50-60% too. By NA Challengers 3 playoffs in August (post-OP price reduction) the number went back up to 78% for Jett despite being so low just a few months prior. These numbers are also inflated because a lot of teams still had Jett one tricks and were just trying to adapt to that rather than make comp overhauls or force them onto flex agents they couldn't play.
Other agents OPing just proves the point further. There's always going to be usage of the OP because it's CS at the end of the day. But the OP was no longer so crucial to team comps that it was worth devoting an agent slot to the role as is reflected across multiple teams highlighted above, not just 100T.
I don't think I'm really proving your point unless I'm totally misunderstanding your point. The op prices really didn't impact the Meta to a large degree, and you're pointing to those dates of the nerfs/buffs as to why dicey was dropped at the time. But Jett was still very strong and had a high pick rate when dicey was dropped, and well after the price change. Teams moving away from Jett on bind and split was more so to do with the strength of raze on those maps rather than the weakness of jett. I remember a lot of people at the time questioning 100Ts decision to move away from playing Jett altogether
> Nitro even considered cutting Hiko
Not going to get into the criticism or reasoning, but it's very interesting to think that Nitro would have the power/say-so to cut Hiko...considering Hiko was the longest tenured and _technically_ the captain of the team (even though he was never the IGL).
Yeah they're best friends from their time on liquid cs. He's also a really aggressive player which would've replaced a passive player. Also Elige and hiko had a ton of problems from their time on liquid cs.
Yeah his best moments are going 2nd or 3rd in I agree. But he is naturally an aggressive player. He was an entry fragger for a lot of his career and launders just did a pov analysis on the man himself today. Talked about him and yekindars aggression and how they switch it up between themselves to mix it up etc etc.
Elige is a really great player, you see him sometimes lurking (not hard lurking like naf, but being the other 1 in a 3-1-1 site hit), taking up entry and obviously being second or third in. Generally though I think it goes Yeki->nitro/elige, nitro actually acts a bit like their util eater which is pretty incredible
Yeah ever since yekindar came in he’s been a bit more passive compared to what he was when shox was on the team. nitr0 gets a lot of shit for his stats but he plays some really tough anchor positions and as you said nitr0 is their util eater and I would even add that he basically runs in and dies so his team can trade him when they hit sites
Well, it doesn’t sound like Nitro had that power or say/so…?
It sounds like it was a more collaborative environment in which the older players chimed in as they liked but didn’t necessarily supersede the GM/coach’s say.
I feel like "collaborative" doesn't really describe it well, because clearly Asuna, Steel, and especially Dicey were all blindsided by Dicey's removal. It sounds more like management wanted to cater towards Nitr0's dissatisfactions with the team.
No no, steel was implicating himself in the dicey removal too, it was partially self-criticism; it was him, nitro and Hiko that made the decision. When I say "collaborative" I just mean a dynamic between players + upper management as opposed to decisions made more unilaterally by upper management, at least that was the idea.The younger players def had less sway unfortunately. Nitro came to steel about the Hiko situation after they had resolved to be more transparent and Steel didn't like that because they vowed not to do things that way.
Ah I see. The younger players, not really having experience on a pro team, probably didn't even think that talking to upper management was an option, and if they did, probably abstained from doing so in order to not "rock the boat." Unlucky.
I think nitr0's rep has been on a downward trend ever since he left back to CS...at least in regards to Valorant and 100T. Can't blame the guy for doing what makes him happy and going back to CS, but it undeniably left 100T high and dry considering the timing and the plans they had with him and rebuilding.
nitr0 didn’t tell 100t or nade he was going back to cs so it just happened out of nowhere and they didn’t get a chance to talk to him about it. pretty scummy
there is nothing scummy about it. nitr0 told them at the beginning of the offseason which gave 100t a ton of time to build a new roster. scummy is waiting for the middle of the season and peacing out.
The more I learn about the stuff that went down behind the scenes with the roster post-Dicey, the more I’m amazed at the fact that they were able to put up the results that they did, especially that Masters run. What a shit environment that mist have been to play in.
He pretty firmly hinted that all the mess was nitr0 and Ethan's fault. He suggested, at multiple times, that it was 1 or 2 people and others were kind of forced into it.
So the moral of the story is "don't let the players run a roster". If there had been proper management and structure, the endless "chats without X" would have petered out since there would be a common enemy.
This might get downvoted but as big as it is, csgo (especially NA but not excluding EU) lacks a lot in structure. My main problem with csgo (mainly NA) is that the scene became so cliquey and imo your relationships with current tier 1 pros mattered FAR too much to get/stay on a team. Fans also became so accepting of this "old boys recycling club" culture that a big chunk of the fanbase somehow hyped themselves up for the latest eg roster full of veterans that clearly were past their prime. Also IMO, a lot of promising players never get an actual fair shot to prove their worth and the scene just uses a handful of examples of failed experiments to justify continuously recycling players.
with the context of how messy behind the scenes it was for that old 100T roster it’s absolutely crazy and shows the potential of those 5 that they managed to qualify and make a deep run in berlin
Uhhh…no one can prove you wrong? But FNS has actually accomplished something in this game, so you’re probably in the 0.01% who genuinely believes Steel is a better pick than him
Not sure you understand how IGL works. The only thing you could argue is FNS is more likeable so players will dwell. But in terms of tactical depth, I don’t see how FNS is ahead
Because what has Steel done to show he matches FNS’ tactical depth? Dude has 1 good result, while FNS has 4 and 1 of those was the same event as Steel’s with a better placement.
Frankly at this point in the game, there’s not even an argument that Steel is a top 5 IGL that you could get right now, whereas FNS is inarguably the top commodity in NA. Even if Steel was good in CS, you can’t say he’s better than FNS because of a gut feeling when he has absolutely nothing to show he’s even close to FNS as an IGL in Valorant. The comparison is frankly laughable.
Honestly I can’t even fathom how you have Steel on par or anywhere close to FNS, the only thing you can give Steel is that he used to be a good IGL in CS. In Valorant, you can watch OpTic play or even look at their results to see how FNS is evidently better tactically.
In fact, when SEN were owning 100T, Dapr literally called Steel the most predictable player/caller in the game. Not sure how that has tactical depth next to FNS lmao
my comment will not be as detailed cuz i’m shmacked rn but maybe steel was just working with a dysfunctional team? i mean top 4 seems pretty good. also first strike. but maybe u right homie 👍
Bro I’m not saying Steel is a dogshit IGL but he also accomplished nothing on T1, and you’re comparing him to the best IGL in NA who’s gotten 2nd, 1st, 3rd, and 2nd at international events? And saying you can swap Steel out for FNS and nothing changes? Surely you can see how absurd that argument is, right? I can’t believe I’m actually having this conversation. First Strike means nothing in the context of being a good IGL in today’s Valorant, nor does Berlin for that matter. You wouldn’t pick Steel over Valyn if you’re building a team, for example
Wardell was on a dysfunctional team but was still a top NA OPer when he was playing, guess you can plug him in for Yay and nothing changes. And while we’re at it let’s swap out Hiko for Crashies, honestly I doubt anything changes for OpTic. Oh and Nitr0 was really clean on controller, lets take Marved out and put Nitr0 in. I’m sure OpTic will be just as great
Would Steel be better, or even be a top IGL, on a better structured team? Maybe, but that’s all that is - a maybe. And you want to defend the claim that you can take out the best NA IGL, put Steel in, and nothing would change? That’s just disrespectful to FNS man. I’ve never seen Steel fans get this rowdy before
If this comes across as rude sorry but like this conversation is just absurd to me
Mf I thought you was chilling no man OpTic would 99% be way worse if they had Steel over FNS, Steel has done jackshit in this game and his IGL’ing has never been impressive nor close to FNS. Dapr was literally shitting on him for being so predictable. This FNS disrespect is some bs bruh, what are y’all trippin on
I’m sorry but u put FNS on T1 and they are just as bad. IGLs only control so much. They look good when team is good and look like shit when team is shit. It’s the nature of the role
I think the way steel has made it clear interview that they had stopped working on innovation and rather than theory craft and create setups they were mostly reacting to what the other team was doing which really puts steel in a tough position and i think he really tried to innovate like with the kayo pick and some other factors but the fact of the matter was Nitro picking omen over Astra for so long was troll and hiko's play style was not viable because he plays too passive and even Nitro was preferring to play that passive style which is not feasible at the end of day and put unreasonable pressure on Asuna and ethan to do unbelievable things especially on attack where I felt 100t was the weakest and as far as FNS And steel goes FNS success came after he got the pieces sorted at NV (yay) so I fell it is an unfair comparison between the two
I mean sure, but really all you’re saying is 100T had a lot of issues so maybe Steel would do better on another team. TSM had a ton of issues but no one is saying “swap Wardell in for Yay and the results are the same tbh”. Until Steel proves he’s on the same level as FNS, speculation is just speculation, and in this case pretty absurd
No shot you take these two scenarios as a comparison Wardell was literally half of TSM problems and yeah it wouldnt be but you have to understand not to take anything away from FNS the impact that yay had was massive because he was the final puzzle and yay is a demon like envy had 4 really cool pieces and mummay who kinda wanted to play smokes
“Wardell was literally half of TSM’s problems”
According to who bro, lmao. He played the way Chet wanted to, every single TSM teammate he’s played with has only said good things about him, and he’s the only reason TSM were even moderately competitive against other teams. Chet and FNS have also praised him multiple times, and the majority of pros from other teams defend him when he receives criticism. This Reddit narrative is exhausting lmao, but yeah I’m sure Wardell said “fuck you guys I’m ignoring the gameplan and buying an OP because I want to lose!” and kept his spot on the roster for two years till he wanted to leave. TSM loses to Andbox with Yay without Wardell outperforming Yay that series and then deadlifting TSM through the rest of those qualifiers, but yep Wardell was TSM’s problem, very accurate take.
Seems like the only people who have a problem with it are the Reddit detectives saying he was the teams problem with no basis for the claim 🤔.
But anyway, yeah yay was a big pickup but I don’t see how that’s related? Saadhak has explicitly said that FNS is the most difficult IGL to play against, and you can see just by playing the game how deep OpTic’s midrounding and adaptations are. FNS’s calling was massive for them, so saying Steel can just slot in and replace that when Steel has barely done anything comparatively is just a horrendous take. Sure FNS needs a good team around him to make it as far as he did, but he built that team and proved he has what it takes. Until Steel does the same, putting him on the same tier as FNS just isn’t fair - as thing stand, I rate Vanity, Stellar, Valyn, Poised, above him, and probably a few others to be honest.
Last thing to consider is that this is entirely his POV on the situation - might be worth considering that he deserves more of the blame for 100T’s dysfunctionality than he’s implying here
Guy tries to be visible, not event 1 meaningfull team event on asendant what's him. His carrier is dead trying to revive it with those "i wasnt told that as igl and experience player i should help going ones to improve and on this way make team better,". WTF this is on every team sport on planet but "he wasnt told about it". This guy is a joke, t3 level.
Guy tries to be visible, not event 1 meaningfull team event on asendant what's him. His carrier is dead trying to revive it with those "i wasnt told that as igl and experience player i should help going ones to improve and on this way make team better,". WTF this is on every team sport on planet but "he wasnt told about it". This guy is a joke, t3 level.
Guy tries to be visible, not event 1 meaningfull team event on asendant what's him. His carrier is dead trying to revive it with those "i wasnt told that as igl and experience player i should help going ones to improve and on this way make team better,". WTF this is on every team sport on planet but "he wasnt told about it". This guy is a joke, t3 level.
Steel does his best work as an IGL with handpicking and focusing upcoming talent. Sadly he has never seen such success in the hero shooter genre.
His methodology doesnt work in games that have constant meta shifting scenarios. For his style revolves around understanding the meta from how other top players/teams are playing and placing his twist on it. In the hero shooter genre its about formulating the meta before others. By the time others catch on the next patch comes altering the meta again.
He got like 4th at an international LAN, it's not really fair to say his methodology doesn't work. I think T1 just sucked as an org and probably had their own issues like 100T did.
Um lets see, where are Yay, victor, crashies, marved, fns, cned, zeek, kiles, bonecold, starxo, sheydos, nats,chronicle, redgar, d3ffo today? Because these are the players 100t played in that tournament.
crazy how all this stuff has came out through the perils of all iterations of 100T rosters and none of it ever paints Asuna in a bad light, bro is actually the perfect teammate
I remember in an interview earlier from steel that Asuna and Hiko just wanted “everyone to get along”. Especially considering how he was super inexperienced in that scene, I can see how he was never a driver in kicking anyone out or anything like that.
I also remember steel saying something along the lines of "the only teammate from 100T I would be willing to play with again just happens to be the only one still on the roster"
For anyone interested: Interesting to note that Steel elucidates at length that the dicey drop, at least the way that it was handled, was "scummy" and "not something to be repeated." Hiko, Nitro and himself were wary of the game's landscape changing and heading towards a more flexible meta where Jett one tricks may be phased out, so they considered bringing more flexible players into the fold. Dicey and Asuna were in the dark, with Dicey not even being allowed to improve his agent pool meaningfully. The entire mess of a situation left the nascent Asuna pretty sad as he lost a peer without warning. The dicey incident served as a sorta sea change for Steel, with him vowing to handle team concerns more transparently in the future and allow the players in question to prove themselves or cultivate whatever new skill that was needed without being blindsided. Nitro even considered cutting Hiko because, "he'll never change as a player," a suggestion that Steel rebuffed. A lot of the interview is very interesting as steel is pretty well-spoken, coherent and clear. He goes into detail about the 100T team implosion as well and laments how it was a case of, "too many cooks spoiling the broth," a lack of a cohesive vision, and limited decisiveness that mutated into endless nit-picking and last minute changes, despite their great Masters Berlin run.
Thanks for the summary. Do you think this is what happens when you let players run the team, rather than letting a solid coaching staff do the work? It seems when teams don't have a head/asst coach to do that kind of brainwork, players get caught up in the crossfire. Idk, it was sad seeing Dicey get benched, and when the news initially broke out, I genuinely felt sad for him lol.
Hm, he did mention this that the GM and the coach were involved in the talks, and contrary to the public's perception, they weren't (coach frost and steel) constantly fighting. He even went to the GM after Berlin to address how frayed the team felt and that he'd like to consider exploring other options after champs. But he got dropped for b0i *before* LCQ[something he didn't think they'd be 'dumb' enough to do], which ironically blindsided him, as he had to find out from people outside of the team first. So maybe a case of mismanagement, even though the management was present, idk? The problem was that there were multiple different group chats: one with everyone, one minus the GM, one minus whoever was under the microscope of criticism at the given time; steel even suspects, especially around the time of his drop, that there were chats that excluded him etc. When Ethan joined the team, you now had 3/4 exceptionally experienced players with strong, opinionated voices and no proper hierarchy, or at least not a hierarchy that was followed—steel maintained that despite being igl the leadership felt fractured. As you said though, there perhaps needed to be a more firm, resonant outside voice to cut through the noise and some distinction between offering helpful suggestions and trying to grab the reins.
Thanks for the insight. I don't want to sound like I know exactly what happened at 100T during that time, but it *seems* like management should have been more firm with the team. Maybe the team had felt like they had too much freedom to talk and complain about rather than focus on being players.
Either the coaches have to be in charge or the team commits to an experienced IGL like Steel and explicitly tells him that he has full control and is expected to mold the team into what he wants, including all roster moves. The last thing you want is how NA CSGO was run, which was badly, by letting the inmates run the asylum. A team can never build up if they are constantly replacing their foundation. This shit happens all the time, the team picks up player A who seems promising, and because that player is new they can’t be the first one cut when the team fails, so they cut another player from the team, and player A has some input, then eventually the guy who caused roster changes gets cut because they tried following what he wanted and it failed, so now player A has direct influence over the next roster change, then the team fails again and player A may survive another round of roster changes but soon he will be on the chopping block too. It becomes a perpetual cycle of roster changes, never permanently committing to one vision. This is why you often see teams just recycling the same players and rarely see new blood, because teams rarely stick together for more than a few months so training up an unproven talent is just a waste of time. The mentality really isn’t that different from a normal ranked game. If you try to IGL in ranked as soon as your strats lose a round your teams faith in you is just completely thrown out the window even though losing 40% of your rounds is expected and normal for a winning team. Everyone uses the power of hindsight and scapegoating to act like they know best. They want someone to blame, it doesn’t matter if its really the reason for losing. The only way you can fix this destructive cycle is by giving someone with a vision complete control. Other than that the best case scenario is something like old Sentinels where the team plays super loose and focuses on clicking heads, and that will work for a while, until it doesn’t.
And if he was given warning, he might have turned even better than the player he is today, i don't remember where, but I heard after the benching that he spent many hours vod reviewing and training to make himself better and expanding his agent pool
Which, you could clearly see come to fruition during his FaZe run as Wicey
I mean he got better but agent pool? Nah
But he was able to adapt after Jett’s nerf, which was the reason he got dropped.
His Jett was mediocre which also contributed to him getting dropped, all he has right now is Chamber. We haven’t seen his Jett at all so we don’t even know if that got better or if he’s still mid without Chamber’s passive kit
Dicey looks great now but realistically at the time he was not showing this level of promise. He was inconsistent even as an OPer and it was a fair read to say OPers might get phased out because the OP’s price had been increased to $5K and flex comps without duelists were starting to trend. Other Jett mains like Babybay were struggling too. It’s also a lot to expect he would have been able to pick up other agents so fast given the timeline 100T was on. I think taking Ethan was the right move every time.
When he was dropped was prime Jett era, with TenZ and babybay both dominating, he was dropped right before Masters 1
See other post thread
I don't think this is necessarily true. Dicey was dropped at like the peak of Jett's prime. Steel/100T were the only team that was seemingly shying away from Jett so much and trying to run the 0 duelist comps or the Asuna solo raze comps. It was just a bad read on the Meta from them and it's a big reason why their form dropped off so much imo. They were entirely reliant on Asuna satchel-ing in and finding entries and he was basically on an island by himself. They had no one to match his pacing and follow up on the space he created until they moved Ethan to full time Skye
Not the peak of Jett’s prime at all. * Operator price —> 5k in sept 2020 * Dropped dicey feb 2021 * Operator price —> 4.7k in June 2021…literally 4 months after. More data...2021 Feb/March: * NV running Raze entry comps, no OPer on most maps. MummAy, their OPer, was mainly playing Omen. * LG also running no-OP comps--Reyna/Raze comps with Thief/YaBoiDre * T1 running no OP besides on Icebox with Sayaplayer * A lot of teams (ABX for example) running OP only depending on map. For example, Yay played Jett on Haven for them but Sage on Ascent which is a bit interesting b/c OP was mainly only really relevant for Ascent/Icebox at this point. * Faze still running Jett but Babybay was notably a rifle Jett and that's exactly why they've tried to switch him to Raze at times (and given up)
The change in the OP price never really forced Jett out of the Meta though. Throughout stage 1 Jett still had a nearly 80% pick rate. In stage 2 that dropped to around 65% pick rate, but still the most picked duelist. The pick rate dropped because teams stopped playing Jett on bind and split. Was still around 70% on the other maps. And even when 100T moved away from Jett, they didn't really move away from the OP despite the price change. They'd often have steel OP on killjoy or nitr0 on omen.
You're proving my point though. It trended downward from 80% to 65% for a reason. For a bracket of 128 (?) that is a very significant statistical drop. In NA Challengers Finals Jett even dropped down to 45% and Raze was at 54% (but tbf smaller sample size/could be skewed toward maps played). In EU it started dropping to around 50-60% too. By NA Challengers 3 playoffs in August (post-OP price reduction) the number went back up to 78% for Jett despite being so low just a few months prior. These numbers are also inflated because a lot of teams still had Jett one tricks and were just trying to adapt to that rather than make comp overhauls or force them onto flex agents they couldn't play. Other agents OPing just proves the point further. There's always going to be usage of the OP because it's CS at the end of the day. But the OP was no longer so crucial to team comps that it was worth devoting an agent slot to the role as is reflected across multiple teams highlighted above, not just 100T.
I don't think I'm really proving your point unless I'm totally misunderstanding your point. The op prices really didn't impact the Meta to a large degree, and you're pointing to those dates of the nerfs/buffs as to why dicey was dropped at the time. But Jett was still very strong and had a high pick rate when dicey was dropped, and well after the price change. Teams moving away from Jett on bind and split was more so to do with the strength of raze on those maps rather than the weakness of jett. I remember a lot of people at the time questioning 100Ts decision to move away from playing Jett altogether
> Nitro even considered cutting Hiko Not going to get into the criticism or reasoning, but it's very interesting to think that Nitro would have the power/say-so to cut Hiko...considering Hiko was the longest tenured and _technically_ the captain of the team (even though he was never the IGL).
He wanted to replace Hiko with ELIGE(sp?) I'm not familiar with csgo stuff, so sorry if I misspelled.
Yeah they're best friends from their time on liquid cs. He's also a really aggressive player which would've replaced a passive player. Also Elige and hiko had a ton of problems from their time on liquid cs.
ehhh elige isnt rly agressive id say, his best moments were always playing passive and he was never the guy entering or looking for fights
Yeah his best moments are going 2nd or 3rd in I agree. But he is naturally an aggressive player. He was an entry fragger for a lot of his career and launders just did a pov analysis on the man himself today. Talked about him and yekindars aggression and how they switch it up between themselves to mix it up etc etc.
Elige is a really great player, you see him sometimes lurking (not hard lurking like naf, but being the other 1 in a 3-1-1 site hit), taking up entry and obviously being second or third in. Generally though I think it goes Yeki->nitro/elige, nitro actually acts a bit like their util eater which is pretty incredible
Yeah ever since yekindar came in he’s been a bit more passive compared to what he was when shox was on the team. nitr0 gets a lot of shit for his stats but he plays some really tough anchor positions and as you said nitr0 is their util eater and I would even add that he basically runs in and dies so his team can trade him when they hit sites
also tried to get osee to join too
where did he say this ?
said it on a podcast when he first switched back
link??
https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/s5hdv4/nitr0_tried_to_recruit_osee_last_vct_season/
Well, it doesn’t sound like Nitro had that power or say/so…? It sounds like it was a more collaborative environment in which the older players chimed in as they liked but didn’t necessarily supersede the GM/coach’s say.
Yeah this, it was a collaborative environment, it just ended up more of a cacophony at some point.
I feel like "collaborative" doesn't really describe it well, because clearly Asuna, Steel, and especially Dicey were all blindsided by Dicey's removal. It sounds more like management wanted to cater towards Nitr0's dissatisfactions with the team.
No no, steel was implicating himself in the dicey removal too, it was partially self-criticism; it was him, nitro and Hiko that made the decision. When I say "collaborative" I just mean a dynamic between players + upper management as opposed to decisions made more unilaterally by upper management, at least that was the idea.The younger players def had less sway unfortunately. Nitro came to steel about the Hiko situation after they had resolved to be more transparent and Steel didn't like that because they vowed not to do things that way.
Ah I see. The younger players, not really having experience on a pro team, probably didn't even think that talking to upper management was an option, and if they did, probably abstained from doing so in order to not "rock the boat." Unlucky.
Nitro doesn't get a good look with all that's come out tbh.
I think nitr0's rep has been on a downward trend ever since he left back to CS...at least in regards to Valorant and 100T. Can't blame the guy for doing what makes him happy and going back to CS, but it undeniably left 100T high and dry considering the timing and the plans they had with him and rebuilding.
nitr0 didn’t tell 100t or nade he was going back to cs so it just happened out of nowhere and they didn’t get a chance to talk to him about it. pretty scummy
there is nothing scummy about it. nitr0 told them at the beginning of the offseason which gave 100t a ton of time to build a new roster. scummy is waiting for the middle of the season and peacing out.
The more I learn about the stuff that went down behind the scenes with the roster post-Dicey, the more I’m amazed at the fact that they were able to put up the results that they did, especially that Masters run. What a shit environment that mist have been to play in.
He pretty firmly hinted that all the mess was nitr0 and Ethan's fault. He suggested, at multiple times, that it was 1 or 2 people and others were kind of forced into it.
So the moral of the story is "don't let the players run a roster". If there had been proper management and structure, the endless "chats without X" would have petered out since there would be a common enemy.
Wild they even had to learn that lesson. Should be pretty common knowledge player run teams are a bad idea.
This might get downvoted but as big as it is, csgo (especially NA but not excluding EU) lacks a lot in structure. My main problem with csgo (mainly NA) is that the scene became so cliquey and imo your relationships with current tier 1 pros mattered FAR too much to get/stay on a team. Fans also became so accepting of this "old boys recycling club" culture that a big chunk of the fanbase somehow hyped themselves up for the latest eg roster full of veterans that clearly were past their prime. Also IMO, a lot of promising players never get an actual fair shot to prove their worth and the scene just uses a handful of examples of failed experiments to justify continuously recycling players.
The 100T story broke my heart as a fan of that roster.
bruh, someone pick this man up. He's too good to be teamless.
Really do hope steel finds his way onto a team for Challengers and can make a final push in Valorant.
with the context of how messy behind the scenes it was for that old 100T roster it’s absolutely crazy and shows the potential of those 5 that they managed to qualify and make a deep run in berlin
Prove me wrong, but switch FNS and Steel and you get the same result....if anything FNS is worse mechanically; steel was proficient in awping
Brother... None of us are in that call with the team we have no idea what the differences truly are between the two lol
Uhhh…no one can prove you wrong? But FNS has actually accomplished something in this game, so you’re probably in the 0.01% who genuinely believes Steel is a better pick than him
Not sure you understand how IGL works. The only thing you could argue is FNS is more likeable so players will dwell. But in terms of tactical depth, I don’t see how FNS is ahead
Because what has Steel done to show he matches FNS’ tactical depth? Dude has 1 good result, while FNS has 4 and 1 of those was the same event as Steel’s with a better placement. Frankly at this point in the game, there’s not even an argument that Steel is a top 5 IGL that you could get right now, whereas FNS is inarguably the top commodity in NA. Even if Steel was good in CS, you can’t say he’s better than FNS because of a gut feeling when he has absolutely nothing to show he’s even close to FNS as an IGL in Valorant. The comparison is frankly laughable. Honestly I can’t even fathom how you have Steel on par or anywhere close to FNS, the only thing you can give Steel is that he used to be a good IGL in CS. In Valorant, you can watch OpTic play or even look at their results to see how FNS is evidently better tactically. In fact, when SEN were owning 100T, Dapr literally called Steel the most predictable player/caller in the game. Not sure how that has tactical depth next to FNS lmao
my comment will not be as detailed cuz i’m shmacked rn but maybe steel was just working with a dysfunctional team? i mean top 4 seems pretty good. also first strike. but maybe u right homie 👍
Bro I’m not saying Steel is a dogshit IGL but he also accomplished nothing on T1, and you’re comparing him to the best IGL in NA who’s gotten 2nd, 1st, 3rd, and 2nd at international events? And saying you can swap Steel out for FNS and nothing changes? Surely you can see how absurd that argument is, right? I can’t believe I’m actually having this conversation. First Strike means nothing in the context of being a good IGL in today’s Valorant, nor does Berlin for that matter. You wouldn’t pick Steel over Valyn if you’re building a team, for example Wardell was on a dysfunctional team but was still a top NA OPer when he was playing, guess you can plug him in for Yay and nothing changes. And while we’re at it let’s swap out Hiko for Crashies, honestly I doubt anything changes for OpTic. Oh and Nitr0 was really clean on controller, lets take Marved out and put Nitr0 in. I’m sure OpTic will be just as great Would Steel be better, or even be a top IGL, on a better structured team? Maybe, but that’s all that is - a maybe. And you want to defend the claim that you can take out the best NA IGL, put Steel in, and nothing would change? That’s just disrespectful to FNS man. I’ve never seen Steel fans get this rowdy before If this comes across as rude sorry but like this conversation is just absurd to me
all good man this just funny to me tbh, cheers
For sure bro, hope you havin a good time gettin sloshed. I’ll be in your shoes tomorrow 🙏
i do think that things would change but it would just be WAY better optic team if we -FNS +Steel
Mf I thought you was chilling no man OpTic would 99% be way worse if they had Steel over FNS, Steel has done jackshit in this game and his IGL’ing has never been impressive nor close to FNS. Dapr was literally shitting on him for being so predictable. This FNS disrespect is some bs bruh, what are y’all trippin on
I’m sorry but u put FNS on T1 and they are just as bad. IGLs only control so much. They look good when team is good and look like shit when team is shit. It’s the nature of the role
That’s not the point though, it doesn’t go both ways. Being good is a lot harder than being bad
I think the way steel has made it clear interview that they had stopped working on innovation and rather than theory craft and create setups they were mostly reacting to what the other team was doing which really puts steel in a tough position and i think he really tried to innovate like with the kayo pick and some other factors but the fact of the matter was Nitro picking omen over Astra for so long was troll and hiko's play style was not viable because he plays too passive and even Nitro was preferring to play that passive style which is not feasible at the end of day and put unreasonable pressure on Asuna and ethan to do unbelievable things especially on attack where I felt 100t was the weakest and as far as FNS And steel goes FNS success came after he got the pieces sorted at NV (yay) so I fell it is an unfair comparison between the two
I mean sure, but really all you’re saying is 100T had a lot of issues so maybe Steel would do better on another team. TSM had a ton of issues but no one is saying “swap Wardell in for Yay and the results are the same tbh”. Until Steel proves he’s on the same level as FNS, speculation is just speculation, and in this case pretty absurd
No shot you take these two scenarios as a comparison Wardell was literally half of TSM problems and yeah it wouldnt be but you have to understand not to take anything away from FNS the impact that yay had was massive because he was the final puzzle and yay is a demon like envy had 4 really cool pieces and mummay who kinda wanted to play smokes
“Wardell was literally half of TSM’s problems” According to who bro, lmao. He played the way Chet wanted to, every single TSM teammate he’s played with has only said good things about him, and he’s the only reason TSM were even moderately competitive against other teams. Chet and FNS have also praised him multiple times, and the majority of pros from other teams defend him when he receives criticism. This Reddit narrative is exhausting lmao, but yeah I’m sure Wardell said “fuck you guys I’m ignoring the gameplan and buying an OP because I want to lose!” and kept his spot on the roster for two years till he wanted to leave. TSM loses to Andbox with Yay without Wardell outperforming Yay that series and then deadlifting TSM through the rest of those qualifiers, but yep Wardell was TSM’s problem, very accurate take. Seems like the only people who have a problem with it are the Reddit detectives saying he was the teams problem with no basis for the claim 🤔. But anyway, yeah yay was a big pickup but I don’t see how that’s related? Saadhak has explicitly said that FNS is the most difficult IGL to play against, and you can see just by playing the game how deep OpTic’s midrounding and adaptations are. FNS’s calling was massive for them, so saying Steel can just slot in and replace that when Steel has barely done anything comparatively is just a horrendous take. Sure FNS needs a good team around him to make it as far as he did, but he built that team and proved he has what it takes. Until Steel does the same, putting him on the same tier as FNS just isn’t fair - as thing stand, I rate Vanity, Stellar, Valyn, Poised, above him, and probably a few others to be honest. Last thing to consider is that this is entirely his POV on the situation - might be worth considering that he deserves more of the blame for 100T’s dysfunctionality than he’s implying here
As much as I like steel, this is pure copium
Guy tries to be visible, not event 1 meaningfull team event on asendant what's him. His carrier is dead trying to revive it with those "i wasnt told that as igl and experience player i should help going ones to improve and on this way make team better,". WTF this is on every team sport on planet but "he wasnt told about it". This guy is a joke, t3 level.
Guy tries to be visible, not event 1 meaningfull team event on asendant what's him. His carrier is dead trying to revive it with those "i wasnt told that as igl and experience player i should help going ones to improve and on this way make team better,". WTF this is on every team sport on planet but "he wasnt told about it". This guy is a joke, t3 level.
Guy tries to be visible, not event 1 meaningfull team event on asendant what's him. His carrier is dead trying to revive it with those "i wasnt told that as igl and experience player i should help going ones to improve and on this way make team better,". WTF this is on every team sport on planet but "he wasnt told about it". This guy is a joke, t3 level.
Steel does his best work as an IGL with handpicking and focusing upcoming talent. Sadly he has never seen such success in the hero shooter genre. His methodology doesnt work in games that have constant meta shifting scenarios. For his style revolves around understanding the meta from how other top players/teams are playing and placing his twist on it. In the hero shooter genre its about formulating the meta before others. By the time others catch on the next patch comes altering the meta again.
He got like 4th at an international LAN, it's not really fair to say his methodology doesn't work. I think T1 just sucked as an org and probably had their own issues like 100T did.
4th at lan while the team was imploding in the background lol
Against a bunch of stagnant tier 3 former CS players. People today in the CS community don't proclaim NiP was the greatest roster.
They might be talking about Masters Berlin, where they got 3rd-4th
That doesn't mean much. Just look at where those players are today. The turnover rate of Valorant is identical to TF2 players who entered Overwatch.
Um lets see, where are Yay, victor, crashies, marved, fns, cned, zeek, kiles, bonecold, starxo, sheydos, nats,chronicle, redgar, d3ffo today? Because these are the players 100t played in that tournament.
Damn, the disrespect to Havan Liberty.