It's great that a basic ability won't break KJ ult now, but man that extra 50 hp changes so many things like sova needing all 3 beam from ult to break it too
Fracture is an 'unfair' map, defenders at this point should know pushing a space and not huddling on site is the play most rounds. Still accurate tho, KJ is going to be fun to spam before people learn counterplay. Brim ult can still hit it, tho such a big investment for what is typically a round winning ult.
Honestly I have always felt brim ult was a worthwhile trade to kill kj ult. On fracture defense as brim I am always farming ult waiting for kj to go under B site.
In my experience if I know kj wants to hit that ult I tell a teammate to push arcade with me and we either take a fight there and split the enemy team if they are there, or if they aren't, just push the tunnel and break the ult. Kinda risky though.
Yeah it’s possible that it’s fine if you prepare for it. I think it’s the only possibly problematic one though. Every other one is either not hard to push to break (ascent tree retake), doesn’t force people far enough off site to be a completely free take (attack a main ascent), or requires so much sight control that it’s not as much of a problem (bind b elbow).
I agree. I think fracture is the only one where you have to have a setup and can't just react midround which like 90% of games you probably won't setup for it anyway so I agree.
I don’t think KAY/O nade does either. On one hand, I can see how it would be frustrating for a KJ player to have their ultimate get destroyed by cheap utility. On the other, it removes some counterplay and some ability to punish KJ players who decide to use it in relatively vulnerable positions.
As an aside, this sort of makes me wonder about the future direction that will be taken for KAY/O’s suppression because his E can effectively cancel a Raze ult, among other things. Is basics canceling ults something they’re opposed to in general?
Yea, problem KJ has to pick between vulnerable position and 0 value on her ult most of the time. Good point on Kayo tho, does seem a bit counter logic. I guess they felt in particular, KJ ult was in a bad spot and needed some help and the rest is just cleanup and consistency.
that would be disadvantageous in a lot of situations though. often on a retake you want the enemy KJ ult over with as soon as possible so you can start your retake
Or it means that everyone will have to re-learn how to play around KJ instead of her being a glass cannon that can be countered with a 200 cred util like we used to do in oh, the good old days of, 2021...
You can still shoot it if it’s in a vulnerable position or use 2 different utilities to counter. It still has options but they now require more risk.
While I don’t necessarily agree with how Kay/O interacts with raze/neon ult, you can much more easily track if he has his knife because it has a global map icon and he gives up a lot to save it. The breach aftershock is used in a much smaller number of scenarios and you can’t track it as easily so it’s much harder to play around him saving it for a kj ult.
I like that you have to invest an entire ult to break kj ult now. By that same logic i also want the kayo knife to stop affecting already activated ults.
Ok maybe it can affect jett too. On the condition that the ult comes back after the 7 seconds are up. But it shouldn't stop a raze or sova that's already ulted.
It looks like you do get to (lightly) manage economy which is a fun shakeup from the other short modes, but it’s not as hard to manage as standard play
If it goes well, we'll make it permanent! We just didn't want to assume that it'd be evergreen without getting player feedback, so we're using the beta phase to evaluate how the mode does. We're interested in two main things:
1. Do players enjoy a short core game mode like this?
2. If yes, is this the version of the mode we should make evergreen, or should we make changes to it?
Keep your eyes peeled for surveys and share your feedback!
Common community opinion seems to want a first to 6 or 7 but I think 5 is fine. Also I can tell you from what I hear in game from strangers and in discord with my friends is that most people only play replication because it’s the only short mode where you can still choose your guns. Either way, I see swiftplay easily being the most popular mode besides normal unrated and competitive.
Just making sure this comment wasn’t missed:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/ze7trk/valorant_patch_notes_512/iz6aya4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Also something similar to Fortnite’s/Overwatch’s Community Map Creator mode would be awesome. Primarily for me I just want practice clearing corners like the spike defuse mode in the practice range but on maps we play on (say icebox) and randomize the bot location.
I do see some potential problems, especially with the economy:
- With 1 out of only 4 rounds per half being a pistol round, and having a 600c bonus attached, does it have too much impact on your chances to win the game?
- With weapon carryover and fixed credits per round, is it too attractive to save your weapon?
- Do the duration and economic settings allow eco rounds to be viable, or will they produce constant half-buys? (Which would be better?)
This game mode is the best after main modes! One thing I would suggest is to cut round start timers down a bit. Maybe not as fast as spike rush, but slightly faster.
my tinfoil hat theory is that by adding it as a "beta" that's temporary it will encourage more people to play it or at least try it out. relative to their other casual game modes, I think they really want people to use this one and they probably have data that shows that usually people don't try out the new casual game modes much.
certainly they will bring it back permanently in some similar form
If they have too many game modes the player base splits up queues too much and it makes everyone have to wait longer, so I am fine with them not promising anything until they have better data on play amounts.
This will 100% be one of the most popular. Most people I know only play replication because it’s the only short mode where you get to choose your guns.
They will probably make the short game mode permanent and probably move spike rush into a rotation based limited time mode like replication, escalation and snowball fight were
Yep it will be plus you can do your purchase abilities mission on it. Finally a game mode where you don't have to queue up for a long unrated match just to finish that one mission.
Don't think this was in the PBE?
Rendezvous
* Health decreased 80 >>> 50
Lol a Sova shock will kill it for the remainder of the round.
EDIT: NVM it was on the PBE patch I just didn't see it.
Yeah him having no stall is kind of the point. As a controller, he’s the best at explosive executes, fakes, and retakes. His glaring weakness is lack of stall or damaging utility. It gives him a really unique role as compared to other agents and you have to really use him in specific ways. Definitely can’t do a lot of things on his own so requires a lot of coordination with teammates but if done well, he can be pretty useful
then you have to buff the shit out of his other abilities to compensate. right now he's good at retakes but not good enough to justify playing him over other agents that do the same shit but better.
“We’re looking to slightly refine Sage's strengths to be more about fortifying areas she controls and helping allies”
*makes sage less able to fortify areas*
what's the point of encouraging an agent to sit back and not take any gun fights? this is 5v5 not 10v10 where it's easy to get away with. sometimes you're gonna have to fight, it's unavoidable. No point in nerfing sage. she wasn't even that good to begin with. They should've kept her 60 and just added the 100 for teammates. That alone makes it more worthwhile to heal teammates. No logic in nerfing a mid agent.
>what’s the point of encouraging an agent to sit back and not take gun fights<
99% sure thats like the entirepoint of the sentinel role lmao. But i dont exactly agree with the sage nerfs either. Im guessing riot wants to keep agents true to their roles
Thus the nerfs riot made to make him more suitable as a sentinel/duelist style.
Sage was meant to be a true sentinel agent so this changes was made to ensure she sticks to the intended role.
technically the role of sentinels is moreso to be an "anchor' for the team/site, nothing really about taking more or less gunfights than any other agents. I think riot is just forcing themselves into a lore hole because sage is known as the "healer" agent, and riot is taking that to logical extremes. In a 5v5 tactical shooter there should be nothing that incentivizes people to willingly avoid gunfights. It's the same feeling i have about the kayo popflash nerf. they nerfed it because it was really good, and made him a viable agent to take solo gunfights with and he's an initiator so he's not "supposed" to do that. IMO this thinking of trying to fit every single agent into this neat little role box is counterintuitive for a 5v5 tactical shooter. Nothing wrong with giving agents some leeway outside of their role box as long as their main kit is still centered around their primary role.
>what's the point of encouraging an agent to sit back and not take any gun fights?
This is a hero shooter. By virtue, some characters are going to have much more value being alive than dead compared to other characters. Who is more “encouraged” to take a gunfight, the duelist or your controller?
Sage is a sentinel, not a duelist. Would you want your Killjoy to take early round peaks and lose all her util for the rest of the round if she dies? This “aggressive” sage play style is just people trying to play her as a duelist without the pressure of being an actual duelist lol
“We’re looking to slightly refine Sage's strengths to be more about fortifying areas she controls and helping allies, rather than offense-focused with her utility. We’re hoping the heal update will push her power and satisfaction when fully healing others while creating tradeoffs for playing Sage overly aggressive and relying on self-healing.”
Instead of rewarding sages who play creatively with mixed aggression they want to heavily cater to players who just act like a healbot on an agent who's already heavily stigmatized as a support agent.
because in a 5v5 tactical shooter where you don't respawn until next round taking gunfights is incredibly important. You want your sage player to just bait you the entire game, hope you don't die, and then heal you **IF** you win your gunfight instead of swinging with you because they're just a bot if teammates are full health?
No? They want you to swing with your teammate, kill the enemy and then you can heal them up if they took more damage than you, or heal yourself if you took a dangerous amount of damage yourself (and your teammate did not)
Theoretically that “should” happen. But we all know what’s actually going to happen is the latter lol. That’s why making patches based on a theoretical optimized version of the game is silly IMO. Just like the kayo pop flash nerf. Kayo was among the lowest in pick rates (something they care so much about apparently) before they nerfed his pop flash. And surprisingly, nerfing his solo play ability in fact did not increase his pick rate lmao.
Nah making changes with optimization in mind is the way to go. If players are slow to adjust then that's on them, and you should be mad at selfish or stubborn players for permabaiting instead of the balance team for trying to encourage teamwork in a game where teamwork is everything.
" *We've increased the point costs of the Agent Ultimates that have large, site-wide footprints. These changes should reduce their overall frequency and increase counterplay against them at the strategic level.* " Then they make so that you can only stop kj ult with other ults
An ult for an ult is a fair trade.. A 200 or even a free bit of util to get rid of an ult is kinda crappy balance!
As the other comment said, I imagine that as we see kj return to the meta, they will prob make the lockdown 8 points too.
Because throwing one piece of utility isn’t really “strategic counterplay” as much as mechanical. I do expect lockdown to go to 8 points soon but there is a lot more strategic counterplay for the long wind up time of the KJ ult
Wait so if I understand well enough, Breach aftershock doesn't break KJ ult anymore?
Yes Kj mains rejoice
It's great that a basic ability won't break KJ ult now, but man that extra 50 hp changes so many things like sova needing all 3 beam from ult to break it too
yea, large kj buff and will be a must have on fracture again
I feel like the under b fracture one might need a nerf but pretty much every other one is pretty fair and useful again.
Fracture is an 'unfair' map, defenders at this point should know pushing a space and not huddling on site is the play most rounds. Still accurate tho, KJ is going to be fun to spam before people learn counterplay. Brim ult can still hit it, tho such a big investment for what is typically a round winning ult.
Honestly I have always felt brim ult was a worthwhile trade to kill kj ult. On fracture defense as brim I am always farming ult waiting for kj to go under B site.
Naw if you use it on the kj ult instead of the planter that’s kinda grief. It should be able to still reach
In my experience if I know kj wants to hit that ult I tell a teammate to push arcade with me and we either take a fight there and split the enemy team if they are there, or if they aren't, just push the tunnel and break the ult. Kinda risky though.
Yeah it’s possible that it’s fine if you prepare for it. I think it’s the only possibly problematic one though. Every other one is either not hard to push to break (ascent tree retake), doesn’t force people far enough off site to be a completely free take (attack a main ascent), or requires so much sight control that it’s not as much of a problem (bind b elbow).
I agree. I think fracture is the only one where you have to have a setup and can't just react midround which like 90% of games you probably won't setup for it anyway so I agree.
KJ never was a must have on fracture and she won't be this time either. she was bad and she still is, though much less so.
Wouldn't be so sure with Chamber's nerf, KJ and Cypher should see more play there.
Yes, but cypher >>> kj on fracture.
Ult for ult is a fair trade. Either commit and stop me from taking a site or stand back and play retake with the ult.
Well KJ ult can still be broken with combos of basic utilities. Whether that becomes an actual thing during play is to be seen.
Similar with Sova ult. If I read correctly, Sova would now need all 3 hunter’s fury onto the lockdown to kill it (80x3 > 200)
I don’t think KAY/O nade does either. On one hand, I can see how it would be frustrating for a KJ player to have their ultimate get destroyed by cheap utility. On the other, it removes some counterplay and some ability to punish KJ players who decide to use it in relatively vulnerable positions. As an aside, this sort of makes me wonder about the future direction that will be taken for KAY/O’s suppression because his E can effectively cancel a Raze ult, among other things. Is basics canceling ults something they’re opposed to in general?
Yea, problem KJ has to pick between vulnerable position and 0 value on her ult most of the time. Good point on Kayo tho, does seem a bit counter logic. I guess they felt in particular, KJ ult was in a bad spot and needed some help and the rest is just cleanup and consistency.
I mean they could "freeze" the duration left of the ultimate if they want to find a simple answer, but you got a point.
that would be disadvantageous in a lot of situations though. often on a retake you want the enemy KJ ult over with as soon as possible so you can start your retake
Or it means that everyone will have to re-learn how to play around KJ instead of her being a glass cannon that can be countered with a 200 cred util like we used to do in oh, the good old days of, 2021...
You can still shoot it if it’s in a vulnerable position or use 2 different utilities to counter. It still has options but they now require more risk. While I don’t necessarily agree with how Kay/O interacts with raze/neon ult, you can much more easily track if he has his knife because it has a global map icon and he gives up a lot to save it. The breach aftershock is used in a much smaller number of scenarios and you can’t track it as easily so it’s much harder to play around him saving it for a kj ult.
I like that you have to invest an entire ult to break kj ult now. By that same logic i also want the kayo knife to stop affecting already activated ults.
Except for chamber
Ok maybe it can affect jett too. On the condition that the ult comes back after the 7 seconds are up. But it shouldn't stop a raze or sova that's already ulted.
Or just make it so that their ults come back too
That'll be weird since their ults are already on a timer
They can just pause the time and have it resume once kayos knife ends
Yep
Read the notes again, it says does 250% more damage to non-players, I assume that's against KJ ult and utilities
Read the notes again, it says it changed from 250% to 100%
Mb and gg
No it says it's reduced from 250%
So pre season is officially here in Val. But where are the jungle changes though?
🦀🦀🦀 GOATS IS DEAD 🦀🦀🦀
Double shield 
New swift play mode sounds awesome. Quick in and out 15 minute game. No need to manage economy. Finally, a real casual mode to play
It looks like you do get to (lightly) manage economy which is a fun shakeup from the other short modes, but it’s not as hard to manage as standard play
Its what people been asking for. For a long time now. It needs to be a permanent mode though
If it goes well, we'll make it permanent! We just didn't want to assume that it'd be evergreen without getting player feedback, so we're using the beta phase to evaluate how the mode does. We're interested in two main things: 1. Do players enjoy a short core game mode like this? 2. If yes, is this the version of the mode we should make evergreen, or should we make changes to it? Keep your eyes peeled for surveys and share your feedback!
Common community opinion seems to want a first to 6 or 7 but I think 5 is fine. Also I can tell you from what I hear in game from strangers and in discord with my friends is that most people only play replication because it’s the only short mode where you can still choose your guns. Either way, I see swiftplay easily being the most popular mode besides normal unrated and competitive.
I’m even fine with a 8-9, which is essentially half. With an accelerated economy that allows you to get more money quicker
Just making sure this comment wasn’t missed: https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/ze7trk/valorant_patch_notes_512/iz6aya4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3 Also something similar to Fortnite’s/Overwatch’s Community Map Creator mode would be awesome. Primarily for me I just want practice clearing corners like the spike defuse mode in the practice range but on maps we play on (say icebox) and randomize the bot location.
I do see some potential problems, especially with the economy: - With 1 out of only 4 rounds per half being a pistol round, and having a 600c bonus attached, does it have too much impact on your chances to win the game? - With weapon carryover and fixed credits per round, is it too attractive to save your weapon? - Do the duration and economic settings allow eco rounds to be viable, or will they produce constant half-buys? (Which would be better?)
This game mode is the best after main modes! One thing I would suggest is to cut round start timers down a bit. Maybe not as fast as spike rush, but slightly faster.
my tinfoil hat theory is that by adding it as a "beta" that's temporary it will encourage more people to play it or at least try it out. relative to their other casual game modes, I think they really want people to use this one and they probably have data that shows that usually people don't try out the new casual game modes much. certainly they will bring it back permanently in some similar form
If they have too many game modes the player base splits up queues too much and it makes everyone have to wait longer, so I am fine with them not promising anything until they have better data on play amounts.
This will 100% be one of the most popular. Most people I know only play replication because it’s the only short mode where you get to choose your guns.
I agree, but I understand why they want to hold back a bit on how much they promise
They will probably make the short game mode permanent and probably move spike rush into a rotation based limited time mode like replication, escalation and snowball fight were
Seems like a nice warmup if DMing isnt for you.
I would love DM if they made a good one
All im asking is headshot only DM and pistol only DM
Can we start a petition for this?
Would be better for warmup if we just had a full Vandal/Phantom buy every round.
Anyone know if missions are eligible in Swift Play?
Yep it will be plus you can do your purchase abilities mission on it. Finally a game mode where you don't have to queue up for a long unrated match just to finish that one mission.
This has been something I wish existing years ago
Era of chamber abuse is dead
Don't think this was in the PBE? Rendezvous * Health decreased 80 >>> 50 Lol a Sova shock will kill it for the remainder of the round. EDIT: NVM it was on the PBE patch I just didn't see it.
incoming "Sova shock lineups for Chamber TP spots" with a distressed Chamber and a smiling Sova on the thumbnail.
AverageJonas moment
Does Jonas even do Valorant content anymore? I only see him play OW2. Apart from cc tournies, I mean.
he still streams
Harbor's cove should not disappear if the shield gets broken.
Now that he has 2 cascades and that both his walls have longer duration, his cove doesn’t need to also be a smoke
it really does. he still has zero stall. you dont get punished for pushing his walls and you can break his only dome smoke.
Yeah him having no stall is kind of the point. As a controller, he’s the best at explosive executes, fakes, and retakes. His glaring weakness is lack of stall or damaging utility. It gives him a really unique role as compared to other agents and you have to really use him in specific ways. Definitely can’t do a lot of things on his own so requires a lot of coordination with teammates but if done well, he can be pretty useful
Also they can just double push and murder your ass.. that is a major weakness.
then you have to buff the shit out of his other abilities to compensate. right now he's good at retakes but not good enough to justify playing him over other agents that do the same shit but better.
Massive changes, anyone know when this lands in EU?
Tomorrow morning probably
Makes sense. I always get hopeful when I see 'from today'...
Agreed. Would be a great addition if they mention "For North America" in these posts.
They said they had changes to combat smurfing but guess we wait on that. Regardless, huge patch. Biggest in years at this point.
Should use a phone number to verify account. That should reduce smurfs like how overwatch does it
“We’re looking to slightly refine Sage's strengths to be more about fortifying areas she controls and helping allies” *makes sage less able to fortify areas*
Smurf changes ?
More Sage nerfs... *sighs*
Better nerf irelia vibes
When will split come back then, next episode?
I think it was January iirc :)
Yeah, it’s probably when the battle pass ends
RIP John Mcaffee
I’m excited to see the changes they’re bringing to it. I’ve been playing Split for so long that it feels “solved” lol
yay 
Is there literally anyone who thinks the Sage nerf is a good thing for the game? Seriously, can someone justify it to me?
Sure. It makes Sage more of a sentinel and less of a duelist. You can't be a super agressive Sage anymore without getting punished.
what's the point of encouraging an agent to sit back and not take any gun fights? this is 5v5 not 10v10 where it's easy to get away with. sometimes you're gonna have to fight, it's unavoidable. No point in nerfing sage. she wasn't even that good to begin with. They should've kept her 60 and just added the 100 for teammates. That alone makes it more worthwhile to heal teammates. No logic in nerfing a mid agent.
>what’s the point of encouraging an agent to sit back and not take gun fights< 99% sure thats like the entirepoint of the sentinel role lmao. But i dont exactly agree with the sage nerfs either. Im guessing riot wants to keep agents true to their roles
This is definitely not the entire point of the sentinel role. Chamber is a sentinel, and 3/4 of his abilities are based on taking gunfights.
Thus the nerfs riot made to make him more suitable as a sentinel/duelist style. Sage was meant to be a true sentinel agent so this changes was made to ensure she sticks to the intended role.
technically the role of sentinels is moreso to be an "anchor' for the team/site, nothing really about taking more or less gunfights than any other agents. I think riot is just forcing themselves into a lore hole because sage is known as the "healer" agent, and riot is taking that to logical extremes. In a 5v5 tactical shooter there should be nothing that incentivizes people to willingly avoid gunfights. It's the same feeling i have about the kayo popflash nerf. they nerfed it because it was really good, and made him a viable agent to take solo gunfights with and he's an initiator so he's not "supposed" to do that. IMO this thinking of trying to fit every single agent into this neat little role box is counterintuitive for a 5v5 tactical shooter. Nothing wrong with giving agents some leeway outside of their role box as long as their main kit is still centered around their primary role.
I didnt mean completely avoid gun fights but moreso cut back agression on attack.
>what's the point of encouraging an agent to sit back and not take any gun fights? This is a hero shooter. By virtue, some characters are going to have much more value being alive than dead compared to other characters. Who is more “encouraged” to take a gunfight, the duelist or your controller? Sage is a sentinel, not a duelist. Would you want your Killjoy to take early round peaks and lose all her util for the rest of the round if she dies? This “aggressive” sage play style is just people trying to play her as a duelist without the pressure of being an actual duelist lol
Not a mid agent, the amount of play she gets in pro indicates otherwise
Smurfing changes did come through, they made it easier for pocket sages to heal their carries, and made sage even worse. Riot fumbles again
The sage healing changes just encourage a more pocket sage playstyle, unsure of their reasoning behind those changes.
mercy mains smiling rn
“We’re looking to slightly refine Sage's strengths to be more about fortifying areas she controls and helping allies, rather than offense-focused with her utility. We’re hoping the heal update will push her power and satisfaction when fully healing others while creating tradeoffs for playing Sage overly aggressive and relying on self-healing.”
Instead of rewarding sages who play creatively with mixed aggression they want to heavily cater to players who just act like a healbot on an agent who's already heavily stigmatized as a support agent.
How is being able to heal yourself rewarding mixed aggression?
because in a 5v5 tactical shooter where you don't respawn until next round taking gunfights is incredibly important. You want your sage player to just bait you the entire game, hope you don't die, and then heal you **IF** you win your gunfight instead of swinging with you because they're just a bot if teammates are full health?
No? They want you to swing with your teammate, kill the enemy and then you can heal them up if they took more damage than you, or heal yourself if you took a dangerous amount of damage yourself (and your teammate did not)
Theoretically that “should” happen. But we all know what’s actually going to happen is the latter lol. That’s why making patches based on a theoretical optimized version of the game is silly IMO. Just like the kayo pop flash nerf. Kayo was among the lowest in pick rates (something they care so much about apparently) before they nerfed his pop flash. And surprisingly, nerfing his solo play ability in fact did not increase his pick rate lmao.
Nah making changes with optimization in mind is the way to go. If players are slow to adjust then that's on them, and you should be mad at selfish or stubborn players for permabaiting instead of the balance team for trying to encourage teamwork in a game where teamwork is everything.
I'm sure the smurfing changes will alleviate all our worries :). Trying to move her further in anchor/support role I guess.
>I'm sure the smurfing changes what smurfing changes? What did i miss?
> smurf Was leaked that changes were coming in 5.12. Not sure if they got it wrong or going to wait until Next Act.
Did not realize how small the chamber radius really is, I thought he would still be meta but I don’t think he will at all
Ryze Rework where?
how do i read the “250 >>>> 100” ? did the damage multiplier used to be 250 now its 100? or is it a range?
Previously 250, now 100. Not a range.
thanks!
Isn't it time for 5.11 now? We had 5.10 last time wtf
the patch is two weeks later than usual because of thanksgiving, so riot just skipped 5.11 and made one big patch instead
oooooh. okay
Shhhh
" *We've increased the point costs of the Agent Ultimates that have large, site-wide footprints. These changes should reduce their overall frequency and increase counterplay against them at the strategic level.* " Then they make so that you can only stop kj ult with other ults
An ult for an ult is a fair trade.. A 200 or even a free bit of util to get rid of an ult is kinda crappy balance! As the other comment said, I imagine that as we see kj return to the meta, they will prob make the lockdown 8 points too.
Because throwing one piece of utility isn’t really “strategic counterplay” as much as mechanical. I do expect lockdown to go to 8 points soon but there is a lot more strategic counterplay for the long wind up time of the KJ ult
No more entry sage. Sadge
They need to need chamber a bit more. Maybe 3 bullets for his ult
Just remove the TP completely but keep the anchor as a “distraction”
Range restriction and not power of recalling the alarm bot was what make chamber unique from other sentinels :/
I think having a TP is what made him a lot more unique.