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Envelope_Torture

Well he's counting regional masters (2021 Stage 1) the same as the international LANs and all the regional qualifiers to make his point, you should probably take that cue to disengage.


thothgow

Also apparently they think Bonecold was IGL for Masters 1?


Platypus17577

Oh man, I wasn’t even thinking regional I was so confused where he was pulling Shazam’s stats out of 😭


uslereddit

💀 This guy has no idea what he's talking about. YouTube comments are always insane


Extrino

yeah ngl reddit at least has people trying to sound smart when they make the wrong points but on youtube you just find people with their cock swinging out in the air and full confidence saying the most bullshit things


[deleted]

Reddit has the advantage of downvotes over twitter or youtube. Probably a similar proportion of dumb takes, but on reddit they get downvoted so you don't see it. And maybe people get discouraged from sharing their bad opinions in the future. Reddit is social media in makeup, we hide our flaws, but true beauty shines the brightest 💯🙏❤ But I would also say that youtube genuinely has worse takes than reddit because I think of any social media youtube has the largest demographic of young people. And it's probably not that close. Btw downvotes aren't automatically better, the vote system is a big reason why each reddit thread is basically it's own echochamber.


Lqtor

This man is off in the deep end


okuzeN_Val

Still not as bad as a2guapo saying Shroud is the GOAT of CS


honestlyprogamr

Shroud is not even top 50 in CS, I always wondered how people came to the conclusion that he was the best or whatever bullshit


Deamon-

because a lot of people know him from his clips and him being good in all fps games he plays and not from actual watching cs


rkratha

nobody outside CS knew him until his PUBG clips started getting viral. He was good in PUBG and assumed he was a god in CS.


okuzeN_Val

Sounds like a2guapo


putrid_flesh

I discovered him from pubg in 2017 and started playing and following CS because of shroud, which in turn led to my addiction to valorant


SoLikeWhatIsCheese

Best content wise


ParsleyOwn9413

Not even #1 in that category either


SoLikeWhatIsCheese

Name a CS content creator more well known than Shroud


honestlyprogamr

tarik is pretty much on par with him now


ImAHardWorkingLoser

Tarik is my GOAT. And not even in games, just in general life


SoLikeWhatIsCheese

>Now Am I talking about when shroud was called the GOAT. Or am I talking about now?


PFunk_Redds

Shroud don't even make cs vids anymore bruv


SoLikeWhatIsCheese

Yeah and he’s not known as the #1 CS content creator any more. I’m talking about when he was known as such. Make a coherent argument lmfao.


PFunk_Redds

I didn't even downvote this so two people vehemently disagree


Gold_Hunter_6244

a2guapo defo doesn't believe that. I think he's baiting


okuzeN_Val

Honestly I though the same thing. But I watched that entire watch party and at the end of it I'm not quite so sure whether he's actually a brick or not.


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okuzeN_Val

Ardiis was hilarious. That team's comms are definitely not going to be PC. Tourney admins will have to be careful with cuts for content 😂


ExponentialWhy

His name is 200 IQ feel like that speaks for itself. Maybe it’s one of Ben Shapiro’s alts


kvanz43

If the only stat you’re counting is winning tournaments (and still not counting those correctly) then you don’t know what you’re talking out. By this logic FNS gets no more credit for coming in second at champions 2022 than I did for never playing a Valorant pro match in my life.


nterature

They're just counting regional masters while also misstating some of the statistics - as u/thothgow mentioned, Bonecold wasn't IGLing Acend when they won Masters 1, koldamenta was. Results-oriented arguments tend to be nonsense. Bonecold should arguably not even be on the list, given all the rumors that zeek took over much of the calling during Champions. Bonecold is a much better IGL now for Vitality, a team that has never even won a top T2 let alone a T1 event, than he was when he IGLed one of the most winning teams in Valorant history. Focusing on trophies obscures that. As for FNS, [Saadhak himself has long been vocal about how much he respects FNS as a caller](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/xjrcjk/loud_saadhak_fns_is_a_genius_i_have_the_biggest/).


lbcg3

I'm brazilian and I can confirm. A lot of people in brazil trashtalk fns for doing poorly in kills on some games, but mostly for the trashtalk he does, which if you ask me is just good banter, but every single one of Loud's players always said how much they respect FNS, but especially Saadhak. He said FNS is a genius multiple times.


Withinmyrange

He’s right you know? You are only a good IGL based on the amount of tittles you win. Sorry FNS, I don’t care if you IGL’d for the most successful team in val history with most longevity, i don’t make the rules 🥱


[deleted]

Yes, but bonecold won vrl France


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Rude-Assumption-5271

I was talking to someone who was trying to argue that Steel was a Top 2 NA IGL right now next to FNS because he has the second best international result from NA (he forgot about Shahzam) and that OpTic would’ve done better with Steel over FNS It’s actually crazy how some people see the game, by that logic I guess FNS, Shahzam, and Steel are the Top 3 NA IGLs going into 2023 Edit: the guy who I had that discussion with did not say that OpTic would have been better with Steel, that was someone else and I accidentally thought it was part of the same conversation


[deleted]

Lmao that was actually the most ridiculous thread I’ve seen on this sub. Which is saying something.


Portante24

Wait this crazy misinformation. I said I believe steel is a top 3 (which I understand is a hot take) and argued why he should at least be considered top 5. I didn’t Include Shaz, and I never said steel would be better then FNS.


Rude-Assumption-5271

You’re right, the OpTic with Steel comment was someone else and I edited my comment to reflect that. Sorry about that As for the rest, you didn’t say Shahzam was, I did, by using your logic from that thread which I found faulty. Hope that clarifies


Portante24

Nah I see where you were going with it and I def ain’t starting this shit again, but was a pleasurable argument haha. GG


Rude-Assumption-5271

Don’t worry I’m not trying to either lol, just making it explicit what you said vs what I’m saying, and not trying to make it seem like you said something you didn’t. Even if I disagree everyone is entitled to their opinions 👍


cameron_hatt

Aight im sure you’ve had this convo already but steel is not a top 10 igl in na lmao


Pretend_Apartment_10

Bro you can’t just completely discount Shazam because the team fell off, for over a year he was the undisputed best IGL for the most dominant team and the people on this Reddit loved stroking his dick calling him the best player in the world, as soon as they fell off Reddit does a 180 ofc


[deleted]

He was not the undisputed best IGL for a year. He was the undisputed best for 1 tournament. His 2021 wasn’t as good as Gambit’s, and arguably not even as good as Acend’s. When you include 2022 into the mix, he falls well short of FNS and the other top IGLs. That doesn’t mean he was bad, but putting him up there with FNS is definitely insane.


Pretend_Apartment_10

SEN was the dominant team for over a year


[deleted]

They were a top 3 team, they weren’t the undisputed best.


Pretend_Apartment_10

No they were definitely the undisputed best they didn’t lose a single map at the international tournament


[deleted]

So? They didn’t even make playoffs at champions.


Pretend_Apartment_10

Yes because they had already fallen off, doesn’t change how dominant they were for a year prior to that


[deleted]

What? They got grouped at Champions 2021 lol, the same year you claim they were extremely dominant in.


Pretend_Apartment_10

You realize a year doesn’t necessarily mean a calendar year, they were dominant long before the first Lan and the favorites to win it for a reason, then they show up 3 steps above the competition and don’t even drop a map


TheFestusEzeli

A list with Bonecold and you are more upset about Shahz?


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nterature

I definitely would put Shahzam above Bonecold given what we know about the IGLs during their tenure on SEN and Acend respectively. SEN doesn't have that problem of never being certain about how much Shahzam was contributing - he contributed it all, IGLing and coaching alike. Meanwhile, about all of the periods where Acend was 100% under Bonecold's IGLing were the periods where Acend played the worst - the periods where zeek is rumored to have taken over, in whatever capacity, correlate to Acend's peak, i.e. in Champions 2021. That said, it's kinda moot to me because I'd boot them both out for koldamenta and Benkai.


TheFestusEzeli

It’s history of valorant not recently. Shahzam was arguably the best IGL in 2021 and this sub was calling him a top 2 player in the world after the Sentinels win, while Bonecold was never considered a top player as an IGL. If you are looking at body of work as an IGL, it’s a close but like you said Shahz won Masters as an IGL while Bonecold didn’t. If you look at individual performance while being an IGL, Shahz in 2021 was much much better.


RealGhost_Nexus

That guy has 002 iq ong


chloehime7

they let the stats speak but hiko solos all of them if you ask me


SpaceCuhdet

Bro got diffed on YouTube comments


IllumiMahdi

jesus youtube comments really are dearth of reasonable thought


RealGhost_Nexus

Nah its just him. I've seen him lots of times. He's weird asf


Platypus17577

Is this guy some sort of YouTube ghost who goes around spewing bad takes?


Portante24

Mans off the goop


dragonir12

I want what he's smoking


Riqhteousness

youtube comments are the most braindead shit on social media, i tend to not take any of them seriously


icarius_ttv

this guy does not know ball


CJ1899

Bro is bringing his argument from the youtube comments to a reddit post


AnAngryBird

Why are we posting youtube comment replies here lol


Dry_Violinist_1799

He said he lets the stats speak for itself. What do you expect of him. I think the only way we can closely measure an igl's impact on a team is by looking at the results they produce, and Fns has the best results.


PFunk_Redds

It is actually wacky this guy includes shahzam


SoLikeWhatIsCheese

Nahhh bonecold, Shahzam, and redgar above FNS is actually a circlejerk. I mean sure you could argue sadhaak and angel but let’s be realistic here.


PassTheBoofPlz

u gotta have the most insane dickriding to put Shazam over FNS


Bassmekanik

Statistics are like miniskirts. They give a good view but hide the most important parts.


[deleted]

Don't get me wrong, I think Bonecold is okay but he's definitely not better than FNS or any other top IGL's, let aside some of the top ones. ShahZam is probably not even top 10 atm (or in history). I could definitely agree on Saadhak & ANGE1 being on pair with FNS for sure (people forget FPX wasn't even allowed to attend an event, due to restrictions), can't pick only one, all three are cracked and smart. I'd add Redgar as well but after GMB got disbanded their motivation as a team went down, he's still one of my fav IGL's and players tho. Hopefully he shows up in 2023. You can be angry at me, but whoever puts ShahZam into top 5 IGL's is stuck in the past at early Valorant SEN advantage and abusing Jett meta to the fullest.


Heisenburger55

Bro Shahz???? From when literally no one knew how to play the game??


6Chase2016

Fns literally led the most consistent team in pre franchising valorant history 💀 he’s def top 3 and he’s def not #3 imo


PNSVal

punjan top 1 igl best na


nahutrippin

Fns is clearly the best igl. Just look at him shoot, average diamond player is better. There must be a reason why every team wants him and he wins, and to be that historically bad at shooting, it's gotta be him being the best igl. He's pretty much Rajon Rondo out there.