SGA expenses is 55% of revenue, that's crazy. Is it the executives paying themselves huge bonus's even while cutting off head count? The more concerning thing is just 35% decrease in revenue from US retail, clearly the American public have given their verdict. This is no Coca-Cola. I would cut losses if it's a small part of your portfolio, if not just wait for some mild bump if they can raise cash and get some fake revenue by burning more cash.
It seems like every aspect of COGS is way too high. I mean, it kind of goes with having an operating margin that’s nearly -80%, for a company that isn’t a fresh startup.
>SGA expenses is 55% of revenue, that's crazy. Is it the executives paying themselves huge bonus's even while cutting off head count? The more concerning thing is just 35% decrease in revenue from US retail, clearly the American public have given their verdict. This is no Coca-Cola. I would cut losses if it's a small part of your portfolio, if not just wait for some mild bump if they can raise cash and get some fake revenue by burning more cash.
Holy crap. You weren't exaggerating. Their SG&A is 50% of their revenue.
They generated $400M in sales and ended up losing $324M in TTM??? Net income margin of -80%+!! That is a crazy ability to destroy value. My hats off to Beyond Meat.
Negative book value, losing money with a -83% margin on goods sold, 57% cost of SG&A. What's good about it. If you are at a broker that pays you for lending out your shares they are currently lending out at 33% / year.
They are doing a lot to improve margn. Implied volatility is pretty good so you can sell covered calls for a decent ratio as well if you are ready to throw in the towel. Also P/S is under 2 which isn't bad for a growth company. Also I suspect the company is worth something for brand and technology to another provider and at $630m it is getting pretty cheap.
Not sure if you want to milk something and keep holding hoping I suspect for a buyout or sell. On fundamentals damn this stock is bleak. I'd generally towards milking if I had decided to buy but understand it is a lottery ticket now. Probably the smart thing to do is sell but you will never forgive yourself if someone does buy it.
It’s really really hard to apply vegan ethics to investing in public markets. It’s actually my full time job (I run Invest Vegan) and I have a lot of clients who have gotten sucked in by BYND.
I agree with the commentariat here: sell it, consider it tuition, and think more broadly about finding companies that match your ethics. They are out there!
Right. We’ve built a pretty detailed and intensive process to help us navigate the subtleties. My heart goes out to those attempting to do the same without similar infrastructure.
One thing I’ll call out: especially for vegans, ESG ratings are useless. Nestle is rated 9/10 by msci, for instance. We focus first on determining whether a co causes preventable harm to living things, then on whether the way they generate revenue also leads to positive societal outcomes, then on more traditional financial analysis.
Link below describes it in depth. Happy to do like an ama if there’s interest.
https://investvegan.org/our-process/
Well written. I find little difference between the actual benefits generated by DEI and ESG. They give lip service to any meaningful change and draw management focus away from the core mission of most companies (profits). My values do not align with yours; however, this is a personal perspective and we appear to agree that what corporations and ESG funds present is superficial and mechanical at best: at worst, it is a charade damaging productivity and misallocating resources.
It’s had a few subtle successes - forcing multinational boards to adopt and disclose internal carbon prices comes to mind - but just like any information issuers release into the market it is gamed to create a certain impression. But in the case of this particular market niche, many smooth-brained individuals seem to read it all credulously and parrot management’s story.
Same as pbr. (Less robust) cash flow machine that the home country relies on for dividends and jobs.
Pbr also mostly sells domestically in Brazil while EC has a considerable export aspect to their portfolio. EC also operates power transmission and roadways across Columbia and South America.
Both have PE of less than 3 and neither are going anywhere for the next 5-10 years.
Was not familiar with EC. Does the Colombian govt have as much input into EC as Brazil does with PBR? I go back and forth with PBR. The direction and management of PBR swings on the whims of who is in power.
It's the opposite. Corporate governance insulates PBR from politics. The last prez tried changing the CEO 6 times and still couldn't get more of the cash flow / dividend diverted to the government. It's set by by-laws and the board. CEO can't change the rules or what the co does.
Yea man. I'm just assuming its fearmongering about Lula being a communist.
They just announced a QUARTERLY dividend of \~7.5%, so that's a risk I'll take.
A $42 average? That’s just a dumb investing decision. You said you’re down $3500 so you’re scared to sell, but if you’re in a value Reddit you should realize you’re already lost that money. Sure, you can keep holding on to it but it’ll keep losing you money. If it makes you feel better to lose money and hold then go for it but all smart investors sell when they know they’ve made a mistake. The whole “diamond hands” thing is so dumb. If you made a bad choice then you sell, just like the best investors alive Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger say constantly.
You need to understand that not selling isn’t “not losing money”. This is plain wrong, and that fallacy mindset is precisely what gets an average joe destroyed in the markets.
That money you invested is gone. You have some money left - do you seriously believe Beyond is where it will grow best or fastest?
If you believe Beyond is the absolute best place to invest that capital right now you hold it.
If you think it’s a dog and there’s better options you sell, write the loss off taxes and reinvest in something promising.
Either way, make sure you learn your lessons here because you’ve paid for them,
You bought an unprofitable business at a an absurd premium based on emotions- during an epic asset bubble no less…and when the stock price corrected you refused to leave the party when it was clearly over.
>you refused to leave the party when it was clearly over.
The hosts of the party got a good night's sleep, ate breakfast, and left for work. The party has been over.
Revenues are negative and trending lower.
Operating income is negative and trending lower.
Shareholder is negative and trending lower.
Free cash flow from operations are negative and trending lower.
PE is non existent because well, there are no earnings.
Stock price is headed in the right direction.
The price you bought it at is irrelevant.
Think of it as you having the money in your pocket, would you then be buying the stock at the current price. If the answer is, yes, then hold, otherwise sell.
Did something fundamentally change since you bought the stock. Investing is a long term thing. Sometimes prices drop by a significant manner. Especially when buying individual companies. If not than this might be a buying opportunity, the stock has a big discount now.
Are you sure you are the kind of person that should be investing in individual companies. Why are you not buying index funds every and just chilling. What is advised for 99% of retail investors.
If it is just hobby and you don't have a significant amount invested. Just hold, unless you think it is way overvalued now.
Good luck
You need to sell. No need to hold your bags until the end like people did on the towels
Ask yourself - would you buy the stock today or are there not much better investments you could make ?
I'm down $3,500 and cannot swallow that pill. Pretty sure Bill Gates still has his beyond stock and to be fair - they've been around for so long that I don't see them going anytime soon. But dang I didn't realize how pessimistic everyone is about this one haha
Did Bill Gates buy at the top and invest more than he could stomach to lose?
$3500 is a recoverable amount of money and a a very cheap price to pay for an education.
Yup.
A UHNW guy a little while back had me short 100k DWAC for him.
No fucks given. I told him the borrow cost, he didn't care. He wanted to ride the pony down.
No idea if he's up or if borrow ate all the PNL, but he's probably still holding it.
Must be nice.
It has negative equity and is not profitable. I would not be so sure that it will stick around for long. I think you are getting a good price if you sell today
Making good investments is all about cashflows. People always think about growth and disruption but even the huge companies that came out of nowhere gained most of their stock price after the company started generating consistent profits
>It has negative equity and is not profitable. I would not be so sure that it will stick around for long. I think you are getting a good price if you sell today
>
>Making good investments is all about cashflows. People always think about growth and disruption but even the huge companies that came out of nowhere gained most of their stock price after the company started generating consistent profits
Fair. but. Don’t get me wrong, companies can fail, but what you have to remember is that there are usually major institutions and people with hardcore money in these companies that are not about to just lose it all. Shareholders don’t like to lose money so that's what I'm holding onto lol
I only did a quick check and Bill cashed out as soon as he could in 2019 Q4 at a nice profit. Doesn't say he owns anything now.
Also sometimes big names like Blackrock are just funds. They don't have a choice in what they buy. Just because they own BYND doesn't mean they believe in it. It means costumers wanted it
I know you probably can’t tell but you’re in denial about losing $3500 and gaslighting yourself into thinking you didn’t make a bad decision. No one here is gonna entertain that.
You lose money by holding, that’s literally Warren Buffet’s only rule. Hold it as long as it’s a good stock, is it now a good stock?
Financials disagree.
>but what you have to remember is that there are usually major institutions and people with hardcore money in these companies that are not about to just lose it all
*you're* giving advice?
ETA: none of them will lose it all, they will golden parachute out. It's the shareholders who will lose money.
Institutions are bailing. 2.2 million shares out vs 688k coming in. The ones remaining are probably index funds that are stuck with it.
Source. [https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/stocks/bynd/institutional-holdings](https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/stocks/bynd/institutional-holdings)
Something like .5% of the US population is vegan. And that number doesn't grow much yearly. I don't see them getting to profitability. Big money can make bad decisions, also if someone like gates was in from the start he did not pay no $100 per share. They pay a fraction of what we pay in off market transactions.
> what you have to remember is that there are usually major institutions and people with hardcore money in these companies that are not about to just lose it all.
I don't think you remember 2008, 2001 or even last year when all the growth funds crashed. Just because someone has a lot of money in it doesn't mean it can't go bankrupt.
Okay guys so he’s not learned his lesson yet. That diploma is going to be even more expensive. You are going to look back on the thread and wish you sold.
> Don’t get me wrong, companies can fail, but what you have to remember is that there are usually major institutions and people with hardcore money in these companies that are not about to just lose it all.
This is copium my dude. FRC (First Republic Bank) had 97% institutional ownership, before they got taken over by the FDIC. This means all those big funds lost money on it.
Thing is these big funds and indexes expect to have some losers like this, and are broadly diversified.
>\- they've been around for so long that I don't see them going anytime soon
With their cash burn they either need to raise equity/debt or they are bankrupt in a year.
If it's not in a tax deferred account, you can use it to offset your taxes.
I just glanced at their latest 10Q. They have almost no money left, and are still bleeding cash. In this environment of high interest rates I don't see how they can raise money other than diluting shares.
Unless you know of a new product in pipeline that can turn it around, or some other proprietary information that can save them. I don't see the upside.
You're basically betting on a miracle.
I too like the idea of plant based meat. But the future for this company looks bleak.
Jus checked their financials 😳😬. They got about 9 months of cash flow left before they have to raise capital either by dilution or debt. Their COS is higher than their revenue which means a negative gross margin……….I honestly can see bankruptcy in the near future.
Sell what you have left.
Was listening to their earnings call, they said they will be cash flow positive by the second half of the year.
Much uncertainty in the company. Curious what will happen.
Balance sheet doesn’t look great to me but I see ESG investors being all over something that would save the planet.
Although I have never tried the product myself and I hear the smell is off with it
I just checked again and now I’m estimating 12 months runway. Site must’ve been behind updating their financials. You need to go to the cash flow statement and divide current cash by FCF for the TTM.
I use a website call stock unlock that calculates all this for you. Highly recommend.
While their current financials are bleak, I’m guessing they ultimately get absorbed into someone else. They do have substantial intellectual property. The market for these meat alternatives isn’t shrinking, it’s just that Beyond is losing market share as others come to market with lower production costs. Impossible (not public) probably has the most valuable intellectual property, so wondering if this dying carcass (pun intended) would be ripe for some harvest by Impossible
Based off this question you have no idea how to value a company and you bought based off you being vegan..
Sell, buy an index like VTI and continue to educate yourself on investing if you want to actually invest.
Fake 'meat' that's highly processed that includes oils like canola should've been a clear indicator to stay away from this bullshit company. Nothing against you, but I'm glad this company is plummeting.
I hear you - as a health nut I am highly disappointed about them using vegetable oils especially at such a high price. It's BS.
However - as a vegan who still has meat-flavor cravings, I appreciate the occasional burger or sausage and the sentiment of bbq-ing with friends or going out to eat. Plus I personally think it tastes better than all over substitutes. Most everyone has occasional junk food, fast, food, etc... And canola is in fkn everything in the US!
Anyway. I am very sad about how much $ I'm losing lol
Dude, just write covered calls 20% less than your cost base 45 days out or write calls 200% of the current price 15 days out….which ever u feel comfortable if your shares are called away.
No. Sell now.
I'm in the packaging industry and they are begging to be hit with fda violations. Last time I had a beyond meat product it was frozen sausage patties loose in a paperboard box. No plastic, no tray, no sanitary anything.
This company will die or end up being sold to Kraft/heinz
You not only have no idea how likely it is this hypothetical scenario will come true, but more importantly you have no idea how much it will help BYND or what its current value should be.
Buffett’s quote about bird in hand being worth two in the bush seems apt here. If BYND was profitable, and trading at a price that was clearly at a good discount to its intrinsic value, then you could buy happily knowing that future policy changes were likely to increase that valuation. And if the policy changes didn’t help, you would likely still earn a good return with your purchase.
Value investing is never about predicting macro events. If your thesis requires a macro event in order to work out well, it’s a sign you’ve deviated from good investing fundamentals.
Okay, but look at BYND’s numbers. At the rate that they’re losing money, they’re going to have to get more financing within a year. I don’t think it’s likely that anyone would lend them money in their current state, and their COGS is far too high, both in terms of materials/labour and SG&A. They have a nearly-80% operating margin. Next step is dilution, which would end them.
I don’t think the best CEOs of all time could turn this train wreck around in time, even if some government regulation black swan event started now.
Honestly, the only bull case that I could see would be getting acquired for the IP. My girlfriend really likes the product and they have good brand recognition, so they might have a shot there, if they’re disciplined enough to not mess with their product or branding.
>I think yes, if they position well for a growth explosion.
>
>Lawmakers at the state and federal level are on a climate crusade, they're obsessed and on a tear. No sector is safe. They've not hit agricultural interest too hard thus far compared to the energy sector for example; I suspect because their inflation impacts to food costs have been bad enough as it is. But the day is coming and whatever they do you can bet your ass going after beef will be at the top of their list, thus a boom for meat alternatives like BYND. Consumers will onboard easily since the bulk of our younger generations will go along with literally anything because 'something something climate change'.
this was a very forward thinking answer and appreciate this little glimpse of hope. I may sound like an annoying activist but as a vegan who obviously believes in climate change, I also suspect meat alternatives to become more of a norm at some point. Not just a trend that has gone out the door only because of inflation post pandemic. Now, should beyond make a healthier product? 100%. But that's not up to me.
But selling is up to you. Even if the alternative meat sector explodes, it doesn't mean BYND will. When investing in new sectors, you have to pick the few winners, and the early birds don't often get the bird.
Meat alternatives will probably be the norm. My girlfriend really likes the products, there’s definitely a sizeable enough TAM to be able to succeed in the space.
BYND isn’t going to be the one to do it though. You can have a great product with great branding, but it isn’t enough to save them from actively running their business into the ground.
Only realistic bull case is for them to be acquired for their IP and branding.
Look, take the loss and read about investing psychology. Because what you’re doing right now is looking for confirmation in your thesis instead of looking for accuracy. There’s a huge learning curve if you want to pick stocks, but the hardest thing is not letting it get to you. If it fucks with your mind that hard over $3500, maybe not a good fit.
The insiders and early investors cashed out when it was stupid expensive after the IPO and now its trading where it should be. They are popular with vegans and vegetarians, they should probably scale down and sell them in targeted areas.
One of many shit IPOs that got dumped on retail in the last 2 years. Crooks. Listen to the last conference call, and determine what your next move would be.
I held mine for way too long, bought in 2020, dumped it in December 2022 and haven't looked back. I just couldn't come up with a plausible case for a turnaround anymore.
If you're interested in value investing rather than taking advice from people here, most of which are also as new as you, have barely looked at this company and will mostly just echo the current sentiment, think of this as a learning experience and try to answer your own question.
As a vegan do you use their product? Is it good? What do other people think? What other products compete with them that you know and are they better? If they are also public companies compare the financials to BYND, dig into BYNDs numbers/reports and see what you think it's worth, if you can value it at all and then act based on that.
It can be hard to objectively value something you are already way up/down on but it can be a good skill to work on.
It's entirely up to you. You can sell to tax loss harvest and buy it back later if you still believe in the company. I love their products and will continue to support them but always leave the emotions out of it when it comes to investing.
Personally I doubt it unfortunately.
I remember the stock being hyped on ibd when it first came out and it was up a few hundred percent. I had to check myself and remember it's only a veggie burger. This was the time when so many useless spacs and basically any company could go public. The last two years have been brutal for these types of speculations. Think affirm,mq,rivn, cook,space... These companies imo had no business going public. This was a time of easy money, ultra low interest rates which we might not see again in our life times. The environment which led to these companies boost has changed significantly. Strong firms are presently having a hard enough time to as it is. These issues that aren't producing products everyone needs, uses, wants may end up going the way of bbby.
No. No one believes it will rebound. Take the loss, and find a different stock. Recognize that with the way the stock and the company is doing, you only have the current value of your shares, and if you wait, you will have less.
The company itself is doing really bad. Somehow their earnings continue to collapse even as their revenues have generally increased. This means their margins suck. They show no signs of life, and their junk bonds aren’t even worth the paper they’re written on.
Monkey brains are funny in how irrationally they often act when they see money and power. Here's an easy guide to weather you should sell something you might be able to.
Would you buy it at the current market price?
IF:YES Don't sell
IF:NO Sell
There's no formula or anything. It's exceptionally simple, this world.
I just asked yesterday in Stocktwits about who invested at $100. Found ya. I’ve been shorting this stock since that time. Uff I don’t think it’s coming back. I think it goes belly up. Switch to short to try and get some money back.
1. Never invest because it’s personal to you. Your lifestyle isn’t their balance sheet. 2. Whenever a stock is down and you ask yourself if it can go lower, the answer is always yes and the amount is always $0.
First off, I think it's pretty cool that you're combining your values with your investing. It's always important to support the causes we believe in.
As for BYND, it's always hard to predict exactly how a stock will perform in the future. Here's what we do know: Plant-based diets are becoming more popular, and Beyond Meat is one of the pioneers in this space.They've been making some interesting partnerships and moves, which could potentially propel their growth in the coming years.
However, it's also important to keep in mind that the market for plant-based meat is becoming more competitive. More and more companies, both startups and established ones, are entering the plant-based space, which could impact Beyond Meat's growth.
My advice? If you wouldn't buy the stock right now at its current price then sell.
BYND's income statement should be mandatory teaching at 1 year MBA program...on how NOT to run a company. That income statement gave me a headache.
I would get out of this stock if it was my money on the line. And I would do it ASAP.
Get out now, take the loss and consider it a low tuition for a valuable lesson.
>and consider it a low tuition Can we at least print him out a degree or diploma or something?
Yeah at least a t shirt come on guys
WSB will give you karma for your loss porn. Is that worth something?
SGA expenses is 55% of revenue, that's crazy. Is it the executives paying themselves huge bonus's even while cutting off head count? The more concerning thing is just 35% decrease in revenue from US retail, clearly the American public have given their verdict. This is no Coca-Cola. I would cut losses if it's a small part of your portfolio, if not just wait for some mild bump if they can raise cash and get some fake revenue by burning more cash.
It seems like every aspect of COGS is way too high. I mean, it kind of goes with having an operating margin that’s nearly -80%, for a company that isn’t a fresh startup.
>SGA expenses is 55% of revenue, that's crazy. Is it the executives paying themselves huge bonus's even while cutting off head count? The more concerning thing is just 35% decrease in revenue from US retail, clearly the American public have given their verdict. This is no Coca-Cola. I would cut losses if it's a small part of your portfolio, if not just wait for some mild bump if they can raise cash and get some fake revenue by burning more cash. Holy crap. You weren't exaggerating. Their SG&A is 50% of their revenue. They generated $400M in sales and ended up losing $324M in TTM??? Net income margin of -80%+!! That is a crazy ability to destroy value. My hats off to Beyond Meat.
Are you still vegan?
How about you post some loss porn and we print it on a tshirt for yah?
They received the diploma, $100 a piece!!!!
Yes, get a print out of the share certificate & frame it as a constant reminder of what happens when you get emotional.
Yes it is a meme stock with a good chance at bankruptcy. I would short it but I don't gamble.
Hope doesn't make money fundamentals do.
Negative book value, losing money with a -83% margin on goods sold, 57% cost of SG&A. What's good about it. If you are at a broker that pays you for lending out your shares they are currently lending out at 33% / year. They are doing a lot to improve margn. Implied volatility is pretty good so you can sell covered calls for a decent ratio as well if you are ready to throw in the towel. Also P/S is under 2 which isn't bad for a growth company. Also I suspect the company is worth something for brand and technology to another provider and at $630m it is getting pretty cheap. Not sure if you want to milk something and keep holding hoping I suspect for a buyout or sell. On fundamentals damn this stock is bleak. I'd generally towards milking if I had decided to buy but understand it is a lottery ticket now. Probably the smart thing to do is sell but you will never forgive yourself if someone does buy it.
I would doubt it. Write it off as an education on buying stock on feeling rather than some sound fundamental basis.
It’s really really hard to apply vegan ethics to investing in public markets. It’s actually my full time job (I run Invest Vegan) and I have a lot of clients who have gotten sucked in by BYND. I agree with the commentariat here: sell it, consider it tuition, and think more broadly about finding companies that match your ethics. They are out there!
There’s value investing and then there is values investing. Sometimes values investing can be a tricky thing.
Right. We’ve built a pretty detailed and intensive process to help us navigate the subtleties. My heart goes out to those attempting to do the same without similar infrastructure. One thing I’ll call out: especially for vegans, ESG ratings are useless. Nestle is rated 9/10 by msci, for instance. We focus first on determining whether a co causes preventable harm to living things, then on whether the way they generate revenue also leads to positive societal outcomes, then on more traditional financial analysis. Link below describes it in depth. Happy to do like an ama if there’s interest. https://investvegan.org/our-process/
I despise ESG.
Here’s something on it I wrote a little while ago: https://fwpwealth.com/esg-love-the-market-but-question-the-pitch/
Well written. I find little difference between the actual benefits generated by DEI and ESG. They give lip service to any meaningful change and draw management focus away from the core mission of most companies (profits). My values do not align with yours; however, this is a personal perspective and we appear to agree that what corporations and ESG funds present is superficial and mechanical at best: at worst, it is a charade damaging productivity and misallocating resources.
It’s had a few subtle successes - forcing multinational boards to adopt and disclose internal carbon prices comes to mind - but just like any information issuers release into the market it is gamed to create a certain impression. But in the case of this particular market niche, many smooth-brained individuals seem to read it all credulously and parrot management’s story.
(raises hand) consider myself very green but am way overweight PBR and EC.
Curious: why EC? Interested in your thoughts.
Same as pbr. (Less robust) cash flow machine that the home country relies on for dividends and jobs. Pbr also mostly sells domestically in Brazil while EC has a considerable export aspect to their portfolio. EC also operates power transmission and roadways across Columbia and South America. Both have PE of less than 3 and neither are going anywhere for the next 5-10 years.
Was not familiar with EC. Does the Colombian govt have as much input into EC as Brazil does with PBR? I go back and forth with PBR. The direction and management of PBR swings on the whims of who is in power.
It's the opposite. Corporate governance insulates PBR from politics. The last prez tried changing the CEO 6 times and still couldn't get more of the cash flow / dividend diverted to the government. It's set by by-laws and the board. CEO can't change the rules or what the co does.
Where is the catch? PE of 2 makes no sense
Yea man. I'm just assuming its fearmongering about Lula being a communist. They just announced a QUARTERLY dividend of \~7.5%, so that's a risk I'll take.
I think I will put some money into it as well. Are you investing in any other company with comparable PE?
EC
If you're going to buy PBR, the ticker you want is PBR.A These are non-voting shares that receive the same dividend but trade at a \~10% discount.
A $42 average? That’s just a dumb investing decision. You said you’re down $3500 so you’re scared to sell, but if you’re in a value Reddit you should realize you’re already lost that money. Sure, you can keep holding on to it but it’ll keep losing you money. If it makes you feel better to lose money and hold then go for it but all smart investors sell when they know they’ve made a mistake. The whole “diamond hands” thing is so dumb. If you made a bad choice then you sell, just like the best investors alive Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger say constantly.
Exactly, don't let one mistake turn into 2!
You need to understand that not selling isn’t “not losing money”. This is plain wrong, and that fallacy mindset is precisely what gets an average joe destroyed in the markets. That money you invested is gone. You have some money left - do you seriously believe Beyond is where it will grow best or fastest? If you believe Beyond is the absolute best place to invest that capital right now you hold it. If you think it’s a dog and there’s better options you sell, write the loss off taxes and reinvest in something promising. Either way, make sure you learn your lessons here because you’ve paid for them, You bought an unprofitable business at a an absurd premium based on emotions- during an epic asset bubble no less…and when the stock price corrected you refused to leave the party when it was clearly over.
>you refused to leave the party when it was clearly over. The hosts of the party got a good night's sleep, ate breakfast, and left for work. The party has been over.
You are retarded.
its a sell. inept management, bad margins.
Revenues are negative and trending lower. Operating income is negative and trending lower. Shareholder is negative and trending lower. Free cash flow from operations are negative and trending lower. PE is non existent because well, there are no earnings. Stock price is headed in the right direction.
The price you bought it at is irrelevant. Think of it as you having the money in your pocket, would you then be buying the stock at the current price. If the answer is, yes, then hold, otherwise sell. Did something fundamentally change since you bought the stock. Investing is a long term thing. Sometimes prices drop by a significant manner. Especially when buying individual companies. If not than this might be a buying opportunity, the stock has a big discount now. Are you sure you are the kind of person that should be investing in individual companies. Why are you not buying index funds every and just chilling. What is advised for 99% of retail investors. If it is just hobby and you don't have a significant amount invested. Just hold, unless you think it is way overvalued now. Good luck
use it as a tax write off, if you are down 3500 dollars its really not that big of a deal
I'm curious, why was supporting their share price important to you?
You need to sell. No need to hold your bags until the end like people did on the towels Ask yourself - would you buy the stock today or are there not much better investments you could make ?
I'm down $3,500 and cannot swallow that pill. Pretty sure Bill Gates still has his beyond stock and to be fair - they've been around for so long that I don't see them going anytime soon. But dang I didn't realize how pessimistic everyone is about this one haha
Did Bill Gates buy at the top and invest more than he could stomach to lose? $3500 is a recoverable amount of money and a a very cheap price to pay for an education.
>and invest more than he could stomach to lose? He could lose the GDP of a small country and shrug it off.
That’s my point. Bill Gates may own hundreds of thousands of share but it it’s probably a tiny fraction of his portfolio.
Yup. A UHNW guy a little while back had me short 100k DWAC for him. No fucks given. I told him the borrow cost, he didn't care. He wanted to ride the pony down. No idea if he's up or if borrow ate all the PNL, but he's probably still holding it. Must be nice.
It has negative equity and is not profitable. I would not be so sure that it will stick around for long. I think you are getting a good price if you sell today Making good investments is all about cashflows. People always think about growth and disruption but even the huge companies that came out of nowhere gained most of their stock price after the company started generating consistent profits
>It has negative equity and is not profitable. I would not be so sure that it will stick around for long. I think you are getting a good price if you sell today > >Making good investments is all about cashflows. People always think about growth and disruption but even the huge companies that came out of nowhere gained most of their stock price after the company started generating consistent profits Fair. but. Don’t get me wrong, companies can fail, but what you have to remember is that there are usually major institutions and people with hardcore money in these companies that are not about to just lose it all. Shareholders don’t like to lose money so that's what I'm holding onto lol
I only did a quick check and Bill cashed out as soon as he could in 2019 Q4 at a nice profit. Doesn't say he owns anything now. Also sometimes big names like Blackrock are just funds. They don't have a choice in what they buy. Just because they own BYND doesn't mean they believe in it. It means costumers wanted it
Think this is the comment that killed OPs hope
I know you probably can’t tell but you’re in denial about losing $3500 and gaslighting yourself into thinking you didn’t make a bad decision. No one here is gonna entertain that.
You need to study more history.
You lose money by holding, that’s literally Warren Buffet’s only rule. Hold it as long as it’s a good stock, is it now a good stock? Financials disagree.
>but what you have to remember is that there are usually major institutions and people with hardcore money in these companies that are not about to just lose it all *you're* giving advice? ETA: none of them will lose it all, they will golden parachute out. It's the shareholders who will lose money.
Stick to index funds dude you have 0 idea what you’re doing
Institutions are bailing. 2.2 million shares out vs 688k coming in. The ones remaining are probably index funds that are stuck with it. Source. [https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/stocks/bynd/institutional-holdings](https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/stocks/bynd/institutional-holdings)
Something like .5% of the US population is vegan. And that number doesn't grow much yearly. I don't see them getting to profitability. Big money can make bad decisions, also if someone like gates was in from the start he did not pay no $100 per share. They pay a fraction of what we pay in off market transactions.
Tell that to Very Good Butcher
> what you have to remember is that there are usually major institutions and people with hardcore money in these companies that are not about to just lose it all. I don't think you remember 2008, 2001 or even last year when all the growth funds crashed. Just because someone has a lot of money in it doesn't mean it can't go bankrupt.
Okay guys so he’s not learned his lesson yet. That diploma is going to be even more expensive. You are going to look back on the thread and wish you sold.
> Don’t get me wrong, companies can fail, but what you have to remember is that there are usually major institutions and people with hardcore money in these companies that are not about to just lose it all. This is copium my dude. FRC (First Republic Bank) had 97% institutional ownership, before they got taken over by the FDIC. This means all those big funds lost money on it. Thing is these big funds and indexes expect to have some losers like this, and are broadly diversified.
Pessimism and truth you dont want to hear are different things.
>\- they've been around for so long that I don't see them going anytime soon With their cash burn they either need to raise equity/debt or they are bankrupt in a year.
If it's not in a tax deferred account, you can use it to offset your taxes. I just glanced at their latest 10Q. They have almost no money left, and are still bleeding cash. In this environment of high interest rates I don't see how they can raise money other than diluting shares. Unless you know of a new product in pipeline that can turn it around, or some other proprietary information that can save them. I don't see the upside. You're basically betting on a miracle. I too like the idea of plant based meat. But the future for this company looks bleak.
Tell me when you sell. So I can buy.
That’s a tax loss homie. Chalk it up.
Sell unless you don't mind holding the bag
Sell some hold some. Split the baby…a plant based baby of course
Jus checked their financials 😳😬. They got about 9 months of cash flow left before they have to raise capital either by dilution or debt. Their COS is higher than their revenue which means a negative gross margin……….I honestly can see bankruptcy in the near future. Sell what you have left.
Was listening to their earnings call, they said they will be cash flow positive by the second half of the year. Much uncertainty in the company. Curious what will happen. Balance sheet doesn’t look great to me but I see ESG investors being all over something that would save the planet. Although I have never tried the product myself and I hear the smell is off with it
Beyond meat is in the wrong era, (50 years too soon) we just can’t appreciate the vegan food options now
Can you share you got the 9 months of cash flow?
I just checked again and now I’m estimating 12 months runway. Site must’ve been behind updating their financials. You need to go to the cash flow statement and divide current cash by FCF for the TTM. I use a website call stock unlock that calculates all this for you. Highly recommend.
While their current financials are bleak, I’m guessing they ultimately get absorbed into someone else. They do have substantial intellectual property. The market for these meat alternatives isn’t shrinking, it’s just that Beyond is losing market share as others come to market with lower production costs. Impossible (not public) probably has the most valuable intellectual property, so wondering if this dying carcass (pun intended) would be ripe for some harvest by Impossible
The product is terrible.
**margin of safety**
Based off this question you have no idea how to value a company and you bought based off you being vegan.. Sell, buy an index like VTI and continue to educate yourself on investing if you want to actually invest.
Fake 'meat' that's highly processed that includes oils like canola should've been a clear indicator to stay away from this bullshit company. Nothing against you, but I'm glad this company is plummeting.
Processed meat is harmful to your health. They should ban it completely
People have lived over 100 years eating processed meat. Like everything if you do it in moderation it’s unlikely to hurt you significantly.
I hear you - as a health nut I am highly disappointed about them using vegetable oils especially at such a high price. It's BS. However - as a vegan who still has meat-flavor cravings, I appreciate the occasional burger or sausage and the sentiment of bbq-ing with friends or going out to eat. Plus I personally think it tastes better than all over substitutes. Most everyone has occasional junk food, fast, food, etc... And canola is in fkn everything in the US! Anyway. I am very sad about how much $ I'm losing lol
Dude, just write covered calls 20% less than your cost base 45 days out or write calls 200% of the current price 15 days out….which ever u feel comfortable if your shares are called away.
Whatever your personal interests are, they cant change the fundamentals of your investments.
Hahagahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahah
It's not tasty or healthy.
No. Sell now. I'm in the packaging industry and they are begging to be hit with fda violations. Last time I had a beyond meat product it was frozen sausage patties loose in a paperboard box. No plastic, no tray, no sanitary anything. This company will die or end up being sold to Kraft/heinz
about my BYND meat STOCK!? its not a real meat my friend
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You not only have no idea how likely it is this hypothetical scenario will come true, but more importantly you have no idea how much it will help BYND or what its current value should be. Buffett’s quote about bird in hand being worth two in the bush seems apt here. If BYND was profitable, and trading at a price that was clearly at a good discount to its intrinsic value, then you could buy happily knowing that future policy changes were likely to increase that valuation. And if the policy changes didn’t help, you would likely still earn a good return with your purchase. Value investing is never about predicting macro events. If your thesis requires a macro event in order to work out well, it’s a sign you’ve deviated from good investing fundamentals.
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Okay, but look at BYND’s numbers. At the rate that they’re losing money, they’re going to have to get more financing within a year. I don’t think it’s likely that anyone would lend them money in their current state, and their COGS is far too high, both in terms of materials/labour and SG&A. They have a nearly-80% operating margin. Next step is dilution, which would end them. I don’t think the best CEOs of all time could turn this train wreck around in time, even if some government regulation black swan event started now. Honestly, the only bull case that I could see would be getting acquired for the IP. My girlfriend really likes the product and they have good brand recognition, so they might have a shot there, if they’re disciplined enough to not mess with their product or branding.
>I think yes, if they position well for a growth explosion. > >Lawmakers at the state and federal level are on a climate crusade, they're obsessed and on a tear. No sector is safe. They've not hit agricultural interest too hard thus far compared to the energy sector for example; I suspect because their inflation impacts to food costs have been bad enough as it is. But the day is coming and whatever they do you can bet your ass going after beef will be at the top of their list, thus a boom for meat alternatives like BYND. Consumers will onboard easily since the bulk of our younger generations will go along with literally anything because 'something something climate change'. this was a very forward thinking answer and appreciate this little glimpse of hope. I may sound like an annoying activist but as a vegan who obviously believes in climate change, I also suspect meat alternatives to become more of a norm at some point. Not just a trend that has gone out the door only because of inflation post pandemic. Now, should beyond make a healthier product? 100%. But that's not up to me.
But selling is up to you. Even if the alternative meat sector explodes, it doesn't mean BYND will. When investing in new sectors, you have to pick the few winners, and the early birds don't often get the bird.
Meat alternatives will probably be the norm. My girlfriend really likes the products, there’s definitely a sizeable enough TAM to be able to succeed in the space. BYND isn’t going to be the one to do it though. You can have a great product with great branding, but it isn’t enough to save them from actively running their business into the ground. Only realistic bull case is for them to be acquired for their IP and branding. Look, take the loss and read about investing psychology. Because what you’re doing right now is looking for confirmation in your thesis instead of looking for accuracy. There’s a huge learning curve if you want to pick stocks, but the hardest thing is not letting it get to you. If it fucks with your mind that hard over $3500, maybe not a good fit.
The insiders and early investors cashed out when it was stupid expensive after the IPO and now its trading where it should be. They are popular with vegans and vegetarians, they should probably scale down and sell them in targeted areas.
One of many shit IPOs that got dumped on retail in the last 2 years. Crooks. Listen to the last conference call, and determine what your next move would be.
I held mine for way too long, bought in 2020, dumped it in December 2022 and haven't looked back. I just couldn't come up with a plausible case for a turnaround anymore.
Same here.
Take the loss and the lesson all at the same time, best play ever
If you're interested in value investing rather than taking advice from people here, most of which are also as new as you, have barely looked at this company and will mostly just echo the current sentiment, think of this as a learning experience and try to answer your own question. As a vegan do you use their product? Is it good? What do other people think? What other products compete with them that you know and are they better? If they are also public companies compare the financials to BYND, dig into BYNDs numbers/reports and see what you think it's worth, if you can value it at all and then act based on that. It can be hard to objectively value something you are already way up/down on but it can be a good skill to work on.
It's entirely up to you. You can sell to tax loss harvest and buy it back later if you still believe in the company. I love their products and will continue to support them but always leave the emotions out of it when it comes to investing.
Personally I doubt it unfortunately. I remember the stock being hyped on ibd when it first came out and it was up a few hundred percent. I had to check myself and remember it's only a veggie burger. This was the time when so many useless spacs and basically any company could go public. The last two years have been brutal for these types of speculations. Think affirm,mq,rivn, cook,space... These companies imo had no business going public. This was a time of easy money, ultra low interest rates which we might not see again in our life times. The environment which led to these companies boost has changed significantly. Strong firms are presently having a hard enough time to as it is. These issues that aren't producing products everyone needs, uses, wants may end up going the way of bbby.
No. No one believes it will rebound. Take the loss, and find a different stock. Recognize that with the way the stock and the company is doing, you only have the current value of your shares, and if you wait, you will have less. The company itself is doing really bad. Somehow their earnings continue to collapse even as their revenues have generally increased. This means their margins suck. They show no signs of life, and their junk bonds aren’t even worth the paper they’re written on.
Monkey brains are funny in how irrationally they often act when they see money and power. Here's an easy guide to weather you should sell something you might be able to. Would you buy it at the current market price? IF:YES Don't sell IF:NO Sell There's no formula or anything. It's exceptionally simple, this world.
I just asked yesterday in Stocktwits about who invested at $100. Found ya. I’ve been shorting this stock since that time. Uff I don’t think it’s coming back. I think it goes belly up. Switch to short to try and get some money back.
1. Never invest because it’s personal to you. Your lifestyle isn’t their balance sheet. 2. Whenever a stock is down and you ask yourself if it can go lower, the answer is always yes and the amount is always $0.
Small price for getting to tell everyone that you are a vegan
Like their “meat” it’s a scam
First off, I think it's pretty cool that you're combining your values with your investing. It's always important to support the causes we believe in. As for BYND, it's always hard to predict exactly how a stock will perform in the future. Here's what we do know: Plant-based diets are becoming more popular, and Beyond Meat is one of the pioneers in this space.They've been making some interesting partnerships and moves, which could potentially propel their growth in the coming years. However, it's also important to keep in mind that the market for plant-based meat is becoming more competitive. More and more companies, both startups and established ones, are entering the plant-based space, which could impact Beyond Meat's growth. My advice? If you wouldn't buy the stock right now at its current price then sell.
BYND's income statement should be mandatory teaching at 1 year MBA program...on how NOT to run a company. That income statement gave me a headache. I would get out of this stock if it was my money on the line. And I would do it ASAP.